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class="mh-breadcrumb" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/BreadcrumbList"><span itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com" title="Home" itemprop="item"><span itemprop="name">Home</span></a><meta itemprop="position" content="1" /></span><span class="mh-breadcrumb-delimiter"><i class="fa fa-angle-right"></i></span><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/machine-guns/">Machine Guns</a><span class="mh-breadcrumb-delimiter"><i class="fa fa-angle-right"></i></span><span itemprop="itemListElement" itemscope itemtype="https://schema.org/ListItem"><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/machine-guns/smg/" itemprop="item" title="Submachine Guns"><span itemprop="name">Submachine Guns</span></a><meta itemprop="position" content="2" /></span><span class="mh-breadcrumb-delimiter"><i class="fa fa-angle-right"></i></span>Estonia’s Domestic Arms Production: Arsenal Tallinn SMG</nav> <article id="post-32557" class="post-32557 post type-post status-publish format-standard has-post-thumbnail hentry category-smg category-video tag-estonia"> <header class="entry-header clearfix"><h1 class="entry-title">Estonia’s Domestic Arms Production: Arsenal Tallinn SMG</h1><div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2024/10/">October 11, 2024</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/machine-guns/smg/" rel="category tag">Submachine Guns</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >10</a></span> </div> </header> <div class="entry-content clearfix"><p><iframe title="Estonia's Domestic Arms Production: Arsenal Tallinn SMG" width="678" height="381" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6h_H1HeS2QM?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe></p> <p>At the end of Estonia’s war of independence in 1920, the new nation’s government began working on military infrastructure. One thing it would need was a repair depot to maintain military equipment, everything from barracks furniture to arms and vehicles. A large building was obtained in Tallinn (the capital city) and a number of small shop moved to the new premises to work together. Over the 1920s, this central repair depot grew in size and capability, and in 1924 is was officially named Arsenal Tallinn. It is probably best known for the design and construction of a series of Estonian armored cars, but in 1926 it took up a project to design and build a submachine gun. Building on experience making replacement parts for other weapons, Johannes Teiman (head of the Arsenal technical department) put together a design based largely on the German MP18.I.</p> <p>The Tallinn SMG – which never had any more specific designation that I have been able to find – was simple blowback, used a progressive trigger fir semi and full auto firing, and was chambered for the 9x20mm Browning semi-rimmed cartridge. It fed from 50-round magazines that mounted at a slight backward angle to prevent rimlock. the design underwent a successful endurance test in November 1926, and slow mass production began. In total, about 630 appear to have been made (but that number is uncertain due to the 1940 destruction of Arsenal records). Most (437) went to the Estonian Defense League, with the remainder split between the Army and police.</p> <p>The 9x20SR chambering was chosen because at that time, the official service sidearm of the Estonian Defense Forces was the FN 1903 pistol, chambered for the same 9x20SR. In the 1930s these were replaced by FN High Powers in 9mm, and Arsenal developed a modification to convert the SMGs to 9×19. This modification was ready in 1938, but never put into production. Instead, the existing SMGs were sold (a few to Latvia but most to Spain) and the money used to purchase brand new Suomi KP31 submachine guns from Finland. It appears that 485 Suomi’s made it to Estonia before the Winter War. The Tallinn guns sent to Spain had a very low survival rate, and complete examples are extremely rare today. </p> <p>Many thanks to the Estonian War Museum for allowing me to take this one out of their display to film for you. If you find yourself in Tallinn, definitely take time to stop by and check them out! Hours and rotating exhibits are available on their web site: https://esm.ee</p> <p>Estonian Mosin Conversion: https://youtu.be/XK82Tw3lwgo<br /> Estonian High Power: https://youtu.be/foWZnq42DA0</p> <div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-32557" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" 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data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/the-new-cz-bren-3-what-did-they-change/krasa/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/krasa.png" data-orig-size="584,562" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":"","orientation":"0"}" data-image-title="krasa" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/krasa-450x433.png" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/krasa.png" /><span>Next</span><p>sa81 KRASA: Czechoslovakia’s Ultra-Compact Lost PDW</p></a></div> </nav> <section class="mh-related-content"> <h3 class="mh-widget-title mh-related-content-title"> <span class="mh-widget-title-inner">Related Articles</span></h3> <div class="mh-related-wrap mh-row clearfix"> <div class="mh-col-1-3 mh-posts-grid-col clearfix"> <article class="post-32443 format-standard mh-posts-grid-item clearfix"> <figure class="mh-posts-grid-thumb"> <a class="mh-thumb-icon mh-thumb-icon-small-mobile" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/" title="R20 “Rahe” – Estonia Modernizes its Infantry Rifles"><img width="326" height="245" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20-326x245.png" class="attachment-mh-magazine-medium size-mh-magazine-medium wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" loading="lazy" srcset="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20-326x245.png 326w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20-678x509.png 678w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20-80x60.png 80w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 326px) 100vw, 326px" data-attachment-id="32445" data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/r20/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20.png" data-orig-size="764,728" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":"","orientation":"0"}" data-image-title="r20" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20-450x429.png" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20.png" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Select-fire Rifles </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/" title="R20 “Rahe” – Estonia Modernizes its Infantry Rifles" rel="bookmark"> R20 “Rahe” – Estonia Modernizes its Infantry Rifles </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2024/08/">August 14, 2024</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/select-fire-rifles/" rel="category tag">Select-fire Rifles</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >17</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>In 2017, the Estonian military began the process of replacing its infantry rifles. At that time, the primary rifle in use was the Galil, which had been purchased from Israel shortly after Russian occupation ended <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/" title="R20 “Rahe” – Estonia Modernizes its Infantry Rifles">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-32443" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-32443" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> <div class="mh-col-1-3 mh-posts-grid-col clearfix"> <article class="post-31118 format-standard mh-posts-grid-item clearfix"> <figure class="mh-posts-grid-thumb"> <a class="mh-thumb-icon mh-thumb-icon-small-mobile" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/improving-mosins-the-estonian-m1935/" title="Improving Mosins: The Estonian M1935"><img width="326" height="245" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/estonaian-m1935-mosin-326x245.png" class="attachment-mh-magazine-medium size-mh-magazine-medium wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" loading="lazy" srcset="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/estonaian-m1935-mosin-326x245.png 326w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/estonaian-m1935-mosin-678x509.png 678w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/estonaian-m1935-mosin-80x60.png 80w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 326px) 100vw, 326px" data-attachment-id="31119" data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/improving-mosins-the-estonian-m1935/estonaian-m1935-mosin/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/estonaian-m1935-mosin.png" data-orig-size="900,774" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":"","orientation":"0"}" data-image-title="estonaian m1935 mosin" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/estonaian-m1935-mosin-450x387.png" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/estonaian-m1935-mosin.png" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Bolt Action Rifles </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/improving-mosins-the-estonian-m1935/" title="Improving Mosins: The Estonian M1935" rel="bookmark"> Improving Mosins: The Estonian M1935 </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2023/06/">June 21, 2023</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/bolt-action/" rel="category tag">Bolt Action Rifles</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/conversion-2/" rel="category tag">Conversion</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/improving-mosins-the-estonian-m1935/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >19</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>When Estonia declared independence from Russia in 1918, it had no formal military. After winning a 2-year War of Independence, the nation needed to set up its own armed forces. The rifles available in Estonia <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/improving-mosins-the-estonian-m1935/" title="Improving Mosins: The Estonian M1935">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/improving-mosins-the-estonian-m1935/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-31118" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/improving-mosins-the-estonian-m1935/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-31118" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/improving-mosins-the-estonian-m1935/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> <div class="mh-col-1-3 mh-posts-grid-col clearfix"> <article class="post-32447 format-standard mh-posts-grid-item clearfix"> <figure class="mh-posts-grid-thumb"> <a class="mh-thumb-icon mh-thumb-icon-small-mobile" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonian-r20l-designated-marksmans-rifle-in-7-62x51mm/" title="Estonian R20L Designated Marksman’s Rifle in 7.62x51mm"><img width="326" height="245" src="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20l-326x245.png" class="attachment-mh-magazine-medium size-mh-magazine-medium wp-post-image" alt="" decoding="async" loading="lazy" srcset="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20l-326x245.png 326w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20l-678x509.png 678w, https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20l-80x60.png 80w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 326px) 100vw, 326px" data-attachment-id="32444" data-permalink="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/r20-rahe-estonia-modernizes-its-infantry-rifles/r20l/" data-orig-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20l.png" data-orig-size="700,700" data-comments-opened="1" data-image-meta="{"aperture":"0","credit":"","camera":"","caption":"","created_timestamp":"0","copyright":"","focal_length":"0","iso":"0","shutter_speed":"0","title":"","orientation":"0"}" data-image-title="r20l" data-image-description="" data-image-caption="" data-medium-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20l-450x450.png" data-large-file="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/r20l.png" /> </a> <div class="mh-image-caption mh-posts-grid-caption"> Select-fire Rifles </div> </figure> <h3 class="entry-title mh-posts-grid-title"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonian-r20l-designated-marksmans-rifle-in-7-62x51mm/" title="Estonian R20L Designated Marksman’s Rifle in 7.62x51mm" rel="bookmark"> Estonian R20L Designated Marksman’s Rifle in 7.62x51mm </a> </h3> <div class="mh-meta entry-meta"> <span class="entry-meta-date updated"><i class="far fa-clock"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/2024/08/">August 24, 2024</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-author author vcard"><i class="fa fa-user"></i><a class="fn" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/author/imccollum/">Ian McCollum</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-categories"><i class="far fa-folder-open"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/select-fire-rifles/" rel="category tag">Select-fire Rifles</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/rifles/sniper-rifles/" rel="category tag">Sniper Rifles</a>, <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/category/video/" rel="category tag">Video</a></span> <span class="entry-meta-comments"><i class="far fa-comment"></i><a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonian-r20l-designated-marksmans-rifle-in-7-62x51mm/#comments" class="mh-comment-count-link" >8</a></span> </div> <div class="mh-posts-grid-excerpt clearfix"> <div class="mh-excerpt"><p>Alongside their new 5.56mm R20 infantry rifles, Estonia has recently adopted the LMT 7.62x51mm MARS-H as its new designated marksman’s rifle; the R20L. These rifles were part of a single rifle contract, with the vast <a class="mh-excerpt-more" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonian-r20l-designated-marksmans-rifle-in-7-62x51mm/" title="Estonian R20L Designated Marksman’s Rifle in 7.62x51mm">[…]</a></p> </div><div class="sharedaddy sd-sharing-enabled"><div class="robots-nocontent sd-block sd-social sd-social-icon-text sd-sharing"><h3 class="sd-title">Share this:</h3><div class="sd-content"><ul><li class="share-reddit"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="" class="share-reddit sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonian-r20l-designated-marksmans-rifle-in-7-62x51mm/?share=reddit" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Reddit" ><span>Reddit</span></a></li><li class="share-twitter"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-twitter-32447" class="share-twitter sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonian-r20l-designated-marksmans-rifle-in-7-62x51mm/?share=twitter" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Twitter" ><span>Twitter</span></a></li><li class="share-facebook"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" data-shared="sharing-facebook-32447" class="share-facebook sd-button share-icon" href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonian-r20l-designated-marksmans-rifle-in-7-62x51mm/?share=facebook" target="_blank" title="Click to share on Facebook" ><span>Facebook</span></a></li><li class="share-end"></li></ul></div></div></div> </div> </article></div> </div> </section> <div id="comments" class="mh-comments-wrap"> <h4 class="mh-widget-title"> <span class="mh-widget-title-inner"> 10 Comments </span> </h4> <ol class="commentlist mh-comment-list"> <li id="comment-4622311" class="comment even thread-even depth-1 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4622311" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4622311"><time datetime="2024-10-11T07:38:23-07:00">October 11, 2024 at 7:38 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>“(…)fed from 50-round magazines(…)”<br /> <a href="https://modernfirearms.net/en/submachine-guns/estonia-submachine-guns/tallinn-arsenal-eng/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://modernfirearms.net/en/submachine-guns/estonia-submachine-guns/tallinn-arsenal-eng/</a> claims that<br /> Magazine capacity 40 rounds<br /> so which is real capacity?</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4622311" data-commentid="4622311" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4622311" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> <li id="comment-4622355" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4622355" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/61ff4e67d271b01c0f50f7d870fde322?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/61ff4e67d271b01c0f50f7d870fde322?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">HANS</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4622355"><time datetime="2024-10-11T09:43:20-07:00">October 11, 2024 at 9:43 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Personally I think most of the details would suggest that this weapon was actually based on the SIG Bergmann M.P., which in turn was a copy of the Bergmann M.P.18,III, not the Bergmann M.P.18,I.<br /> Nikita Ovodkov also gives 40 as the capacity in Иностранные пистолеты-пулемёты в собрании Исторического музея Артиллерии, инженерных войск и войск связи (‘Foreign Submachine Guns in the Collection of the Military-Historical Museum of Artillery, Engineer and Signal Corps’). There are three specimens in that collection, apparently, which would suggest that 40 is correct.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4622355" data-commentid="4622355" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4622355" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to HANS" aria-label="Reply to HANS">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4622358" class="comment even depth-2 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4622358" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/377310a3e4b3b092e4690b1d925accd8?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/377310a3e4b3b092e4690b1d925accd8?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn"><a href="http://firearms.96.lt" class="url" rel="ugc external nofollow">Get_Em_Puppy</a></b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4622358"><time datetime="2024-10-11T09:47:09-07:00">October 11, 2024 at 9:47 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Yes, this is correct, the Tallinn Arsenal submachine gun is based on the SIG Bergmann which had been sold to Finland and Estonia in the early 1920s.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4622358" data-commentid="4622358" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4622358" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Get_Em_Puppy" aria-label="Reply to Get_Em_Puppy">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4624309" class="comment odd alt depth-3 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4624309" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4624309"><time datetime="2024-10-14T03:06:50-07:00">October 14, 2024 at 3:06 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Which leads to question why they elected to lessen magazine capacity, considering that for <a href="http://modernfirearms.net/en/submachine-guns/switzerland-submachine-guns/sig-1920-1930-eng/" rel="nofollow ugc">http://modernfirearms.net/en/submachine-guns/switzerland-submachine-guns/sig-1920-1930-eng/</a> it was 50?</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4624309" data-commentid="4624309" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4624309" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4624411" class="comment even depth-4 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4624411" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/61ff4e67d271b01c0f50f7d870fde322?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/61ff4e67d271b01c0f50f7d870fde322?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">HANS</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4624411"><time datetime="2024-10-14T07:28:30-07:00">October 14, 2024 at 7:28 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Difficult to say without actually examining it (the alleged 40-rounders), but those 50-rounders are very long and unwieldy.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4624411" data-commentid="4624411" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4624411" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to HANS" aria-label="Reply to HANS">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4622387" class="comment odd alt thread-even depth-1 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4622387" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e028e8a8add9293dd01c6f11c8e2d411?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e028e8a8add9293dd01c6f11c8e2d411?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">turpin</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4622387"><time datetime="2024-10-11T11:07:14-07:00">October 11, 2024 at 11:07 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Some of these guns – in perfect shooting condition – are surely still there (Härra, I am not watering flowers with oil, I am just conserving some stuff under my doorstep).</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4622387" data-commentid="4622387" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4622387" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to turpin" aria-label="Reply to turpin">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4622440" class="comment even depth-2 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4622440" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/59ca3d4a59331600ae89fd83f7c49321?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Kirk</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4622440"><time datetime="2024-10-11T13:29:04-07:00">October 11, 2024 at 1:29 pm</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>Pretty sure that there are a lot of those sorts of things in deep storage/concealment all across Europe.</p> <p>God knows I’d have been out harvesting the left-overs after all the battles rolled over, and keeping them maintained “just in case” the idiots ever came back. I met a Latvian guy whose family had a bunch of relatives who were “Forest Brothers”, and from what he said, the peacetime diversions from Soviet stocks during the late 1960s were legion. The way he told it, the Soviet logistics system was permeated with career warrant officers from the Baltic states, and they took every opportunity to rob the Soviet system blind. Even if they didn’t need it, they stole it opportunistically… He had stories of entire railway cars out in the woods surrounding depots that had been “vanished” off the books by these characters.</p> <p>No idea about the truth of the stories he told, but they do “sound right” to my ear. I mean, good God, the Soviet troops in Afghanistan were trading ammo to the Afghan insurgents for drugs and food…</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4622440" data-commentid="4622440" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4622440" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Kirk" aria-label="Reply to Kirk">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4622695" class="comment odd alt depth-3 parent entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4622695" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/057bfa86de2b087d3bd81c6790e80282?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/057bfa86de2b087d3bd81c6790e80282?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Storm</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4622695"><time datetime="2024-10-12T05:03:11-07:00">October 12, 2024 at 5:03 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>The problem maybe is the ammo, how long does it last ?<br /> 40,50,60 years ?</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4622695" data-commentid="4622695" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4622695" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Storm" aria-label="Reply to Storm">Reply</a></div> </article> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-4622815" class="comment even depth-4 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4622815" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e028e8a8add9293dd01c6f11c8e2d411?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/e028e8a8add9293dd01c6f11c8e2d411?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">turpin</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4622815"><time datetime="2024-10-12T10:26:37-07:00">October 12, 2024 at 10:26 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>…many many years ago, my friend, who – as a student – was running a tourist hiking association mountain shelter in Carpathians, ended up his post-university military service and went back to the mountains, to visit the old place. He had a gift for a local poacher (and an ex-partisan) whom he had befriended. When he spilled on a table a pile of ammo of all possible Warsaw Pact calibres/ sizes, he managed to pilfer during his service, the Poacher looked intently, just for a while. </p> <p>My friend: “will any of these be good?”<br /> The Poacher: “Andrew, all of them will fit”.</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4622815" data-commentid="4622815" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4622815" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to turpin" aria-label="Reply to turpin">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-4622850" class="comment odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1 entry-content"> <article id="div-comment-4622850" class="comment-body"> <footer class="comment-meta"> <div class="comment-author vcard"> <img alt='' src='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=50&d=blank&r=g' srcset='https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/36f7ae838e663fe645b10428b4b062da?s=100&d=blank&r=g 2x' class='avatar avatar-50 photo' height='50' width='50' loading='lazy' decoding='async'/> <b class="fn">Daweo</b> <span class="says">says:</span> </div> <div class="comment-metadata"> <a href="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#comment-4622850"><time datetime="2024-10-12T11:15:09-07:00">October 12, 2024 at 11:15 am</time></a> </div> </footer> <div class="comment-content"> <p>“(…)magazines that mounted at a slight backward angle(…)”<br /> Was said angle same or different that in <b>Kpist m/37</b> <a href="https://smallarmsreview.com/swedish-quality-the-kpist-m-37-and-m-37-39-submachine-guns/" rel="nofollow ugc">https://smallarmsreview.com/swedish-quality-the-kpist-m-37-and-m-37-39-submachine-guns/</a> if second why?</p> </div> <div class="reply"><a rel="nofollow" class="comment-reply-link" href="#comment-4622850" data-commentid="4622850" data-postid="32557" data-belowelement="div-comment-4622850" data-respondelement="respond" data-replyto="Reply to Daweo" aria-label="Reply to Daweo">Reply</a></div> </article> </li> </ol> <div id="respond" class="comment-respond"> <h3 id="reply-title" class="comment-reply-title">Leave a Reply <small><a rel="nofollow" id="cancel-comment-reply-link" href="/estonias-domestic-arms-production-arsenal-tallinn-smg/#respond" style="display:none;">Cancel reply</a></small></h3><form action="https://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-comments-post.php" method="post" id="commentform" class="comment-form" novalidate><p class="comment-notes">Your email address will not be published.</p><p class="comment-form-comment"><label for="comment">Comment</label><br/><textarea autocomplete="new-password" id="f4f0d58121" name="f4f0d58121" cols="45" rows="5" aria-required="true"></textarea><textarea id="comment" aria-label="hp-comment" aria-hidden="true" name="comment" autocomplete="new-password" style="padding:0 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