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6 Happy New Year, Huldra! </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-AN_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#AN_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 7 AN discussion </div> </a> 22 comments <ul id="toc-AN_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 8 File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-File:Aya_Maasarwe.jpg" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#File:Aya_Maasarwe.jpg"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 9 File:Aya Maasarwe.jpg </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-File:Aya_Maasarwe.jpg-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Community_settlements" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Community_settlements"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 10 Community settlements </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Community_settlements-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Tel_Yokneam_(i.e._Tel_Qamun)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tel_Yokneam_(i.e._Tel_Qamun)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 11 Tel Yokneam (i.e. Tel Qamun) </div> </a> 9 comments <ul id="toc-Tel_Yokneam_(i.e._Tel_Qamun)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Bassel_al-Araj" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Bassel_al-Araj"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 12 Bassel al-Araj </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Bassel_al-Araj-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Mamluk_Jerusalem" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mamluk_Jerusalem"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 13 Mamluk Jerusalem </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Mamluk_Jerusalem-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Re_the_effing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Re_the_effing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 14 Re the effing </div> </a> 21 comments <ul id="toc-Re_the_effing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-colors" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#colors"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 15 colors </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-colors-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Israeli_government_maps" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Israeli_government_maps"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 16 Israeli government maps </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Israeli_government_maps-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-DS_Alert" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#DS_Alert"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 17 DS Alert </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-DS_Alert-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-AE_(April_2019)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#AE_(April_2019)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 18 AE (April 2019) </div> </a> 21 comments <ul id="toc-AE_(April_2019)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Modern_Kefar_Hananya" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Modern_Kefar_Hananya"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 19 The Modern Kefar Hananya </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-The_Modern_Kefar_Hananya-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Discussion_on_WP:DR" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Discussion_on_WP:DR"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 20 Discussion on WP:DR </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Discussion_on_WP:DR-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Dispute_Resolution_Noticeboard" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Dispute_Resolution_Noticeboard"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 21 Dispute Resolution Noticeboard </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Dispute_Resolution_Noticeboard-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Trying_to_make_amends" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Trying_to_make_amends"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 22 Trying to make amends </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Trying_to_make_amends-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Tunshuk_palace_article" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tunshuk_palace_article"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 23 Tunshuk palace article </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Tunshuk_palace_article-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Dafna" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Dafna"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 24 Dafna </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Dafna-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Precious" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Precious"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 25 Precious </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Precious-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 26 Orphaned non-free image File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_July_4" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Disambiguation_link_notification_for_July_4"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 27 Disambiguation link notification for July 4 </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_July_4-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 28 Speedy deletion nomination of Makova (Hasidic dynasty) </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Troll/sock_on_bellingcat_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Troll/sock_on_bellingcat_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 29 Troll/sock on bellingcat discussion </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Troll/sock_on_bellingcat_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Suggestion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Suggestion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 30 Suggestion </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Suggestion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Rough_Guide" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Rough_Guide"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 31 Rough Guide </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Rough_Guide-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 32 Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Nature reserves in Palestine </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Fourteen_years_of_editing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Fourteen_years_of_editing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 33 Fourteen years of editing </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Fourteen_years_of_editing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Al_Ma'in?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Al_Ma'in?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 34 Al Ma'in? </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Al_Ma'in?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_I-P_conflict" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_I-P_conflict"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 35 The I-P conflict </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-The_I-P_conflict-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-I_am_not_an_ambassador_of_Israel" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#I_am_not_an_ambassador_of_Israel"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 36 I am not an ambassador of Israel </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-I_am_not_an_ambassador_of_Israel-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Palestine-Israel_articles_4_arbitration_case_commencing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Palestine-Israel_articles_4_arbitration_case_commencing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 37 Palestine-Israel articles 4 arbitration case commencing </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Palestine-Israel_articles_4_arbitration_case_commencing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_extended" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_extended"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 38 Palestine-Israel articles 4: workshop extended </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_extended-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Inquiry" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Inquiry"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 39 Inquiry </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Inquiry-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_survey_to_improve_the_community_consultation_outreach_process" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_survey_to_improve_the_community_consultation_outreach_process"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 40 A survey to improve the community consultation outreach process </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-A_survey_to_improve_the_community_consultation_outreach_process-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-al-Tira,_Haifa" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#al-Tira,_Haifa"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 41 al-Tira, Haifa </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-al-Tira,_Haifa-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2019_election_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2019_election_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 42 ArbCom 2019 election voter message </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2019_election_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_reopened" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_reopened"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 43 Palestine-Israel articles 4: workshop reopened </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_reopened-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Need_your_help_for_Guérin" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Need_your_help_for_Guérin"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 44 Need your help for Guérin </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-Need_your_help_for_Guérin-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Philip_King_(historian)-day_of_death" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Philip_King_(historian)-day_of_death"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 45 Philip King (historian)-day of death </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Philip_King_(historian)-day_of_death-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-"expropriation"_vs._"confiscation"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"expropriation"_vs._"confiscation""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 46 "expropriation" vs. "confiscation" </div> </a> 9 comments <ul id="toc-"expropriation"_vs._"confiscation"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Thanks" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Thanks"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 47 Thanks </div> </a> 9 comments <ul id="toc-Thanks-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-About_SWEDHR" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#About_SWEDHR"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 48 About SWEDHR </div> </a> 21 comments <ul id="toc-About_SWEDHR-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Israel_“occupation”_vs_“rule”_of_east_Jerusalem_and_the_Golan" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Israel_“occupation”_vs_“rule”_of_east_Jerusalem_and_the_Golan"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 49 Israel “occupation” vs “rule” of east Jerusalem and the Golan </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Israel_“occupation”_vs_“rule”_of_east_Jerusalem_and_the_Golan-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Jordanian_“occupation”_then_“rule”" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Jordanian_“occupation”_then_“rule”"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 50 Jordanian “occupation” then “rule” </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Jordanian_“occupation”_then_“rule”-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Zionist_political_violence" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Zionist_political_violence"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 51 Zionist political violence </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Zionist_political_violence-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-RFC;_“were_taken”" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#RFC;_“were_taken”"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 52 RFC; “were taken” </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-RFC;_“were_taken”-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Please_see" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Please_see"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 53 Please see </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Please_see-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Jerusalem_Annex" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Jerusalem_Annex"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 54 Jerusalem Annex </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Jerusalem_Annex-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-You_repeat_a_reverted_edit" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#You_repeat_a_reverted_edit"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 55 You repeat a reverted edit </div> </a> 20 comments <ul id="toc-You_repeat_a_reverted_edit-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Infobox" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Infobox"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 56 Infobox </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Infobox-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Help_with_an_athlete?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Help_with_an_athlete?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 57 Help with an athlete? </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Help_with_an_athlete?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Do_you_have_the_book_"The_Lord's_Land"_by_Henry_B._Ridgaway?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Do_you_have_the_book_"The_Lord's_Land"_by_Henry_B._Ridgaway?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 58 Do you have the book "The Lord's Land" by Henry B. Ridgaway? </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Do_you_have_the_book_"The_Lord's_Land"_by_Henry_B._Ridgaway?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Violations_of_Wikipedia_policy" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Violations_of_Wikipedia_policy"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 59 Violations of Wikipedia policy </div> </a> 40 comments <ul id="toc-Violations_of_Wikipedia_policy-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Important_source" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Important_source"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 60 Important source </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Important_source-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-DYK_for_Jisr_el-Majami" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#DYK_for_Jisr_el-Majami"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 61 DYK for Jisr el-Majami </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-DYK_for_Jisr_el-Majami-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-West_Bank_editing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#West_Bank_editing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 62 West Bank editing </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-West_Bank_editing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_kitten_for_you!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_kitten_for_you!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 63 A kitten for you! </div> </a> 29 comments <ul id="toc-A_kitten_for_you!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Random_query" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Random_query"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 64 Random query </div> </a> 6 comments <ul id="toc-Random_query-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-book_of_Israeli_place_names" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#book_of_Israeli_place_names"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 65 book of Israeli place names </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-book_of_Israeli_place_names-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Pillage_of_Ein_Gedi" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Pillage_of_Ein_Gedi"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 66 Pillage of Ein Gedi </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Pillage_of_Ein_Gedi-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Arminden" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Arminden"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 67 Arminden </div> </a> 12 comments <ul id="toc-Arminden-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Easter-egg_link" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Easter-egg_link"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 68 Easter-egg link </div> </a> 8 comments <ul id="toc-Easter-egg_link-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Out_of_personal_interest" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Out_of_personal_interest"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 69 Out of personal interest </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Out_of_personal_interest-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_"annexation"_thing" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_"annexation"_thing"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 70 The "annexation" thing </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-The_"annexation"_thing-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-DYK_for_Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#DYK_for_Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 71 DYK for Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-DYK_for_Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Respectful_call_to_desist_from_protracted_edit_warring" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Respectful_call_to_desist_from_protracted_edit_warring"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 72 Respectful call to desist from protracted edit warring </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Respectful_call_to_desist_from_protracted_edit_warring-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-WP:ANI" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#WP:ANI"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 73 WP:ANI </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-WP:ANI-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Happy_Birthday" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Happy_Birthday"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 74 Happy Birthday </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Happy_Birthday-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Happy_First_Edit_Day!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Happy_First_Edit_Day!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 75 Happy First Edit Day! </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Happy_First_Edit_Day!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Invitation_to_join_the_Fifteen_Year_Society" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Invitation_to_join_the_Fifteen_Year_Society"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 76 Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society </div> </a> 10 comments <ul id="toc-Invitation_to_join_the_Fifteen_Year_Society-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Happy_First_Edit_Day!_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Happy_First_Edit_Day!_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 77 Happy First Edit Day! </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Happy_First_Edit_Day!_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_27" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_27"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 78 Disambiguation link notification for September 27 </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_27-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Notice_of_noticeboard_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Notice_of_noticeboard_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 79 Notice of noticeboard discussion </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Notice_of_noticeboard_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Needs_your_help_over_preplanned_conspircay_and_serial_harassment_against_me" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Needs_your_help_over_preplanned_conspircay_and_serial_harassment_against_me"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 80 Needs your help over preplanned conspircay and serial harassment against me </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Needs_your_help_over_preplanned_conspircay_and_serial_harassment_against_me-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Israeli_Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies_or_BESA_became_a_promotional_work" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Israeli_Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies_or_BESA_became_a_promotional_work"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 81 The Israeli Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies or BESA became a promotional work </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-The_Israeli_Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies_or_BESA_became_a_promotional_work-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Jezreel_and_Zir'in" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Jezreel_and_Zir'in"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 82 Jezreel and Zir'in </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Jezreel_and_Zir'in-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Applicability_of_30/500_rule_to_Mishmar_HaShiv'a" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Applicability_of_30/500_rule_to_Mishmar_HaShiv'a"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 83 Applicability of 30/500 rule to Mishmar HaShiv'a </div> </a> 6 comments <ul id="toc-Applicability_of_30/500_rule_to_Mishmar_HaShiv'a-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sulam" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sulam"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 84 Sulam </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Sulam-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_barnstar_for_you!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_barnstar_for_you!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 85 A barnstar for you! </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-A_barnstar_for_you!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2020_Elections_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2020_Elections_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 86 ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2020_Elections_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Title_of_Palestine_National_Anthem" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Title_of_Palestine_National_Anthem"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 87 Title of Palestine National Anthem </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Title_of_Palestine_National_Anthem-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Let_me_know" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Let_me_know"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 88 Let me know </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Let_me_know-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ANI" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ANI"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 89 ANI </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-ANI-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-hello_dears" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#hello_dears"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 90 hello dears </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-hello_dears-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Break" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Break"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 91 Break </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Break-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_cookie_for_you!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_cookie_for_you!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 92 A cookie for you! </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-A_cookie_for_you!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Incomplete_DYK_nomination" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Incomplete_DYK_nomination"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 93 Incomplete DYK nomination </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Incomplete_DYK_nomination-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Incomplete_DYK_nomination_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Incomplete_DYK_nomination_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 94 Incomplete DYK nomination </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Incomplete_DYK_nomination_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-DYK_nomination_of_Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#DYK_nomination_of_Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 95 DYK nomination of Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-DYK_nomination_of_Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Wikipedia_Wars_and_the_Israel-Palestine_conflict...please_fill_out_my_survey?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Wikipedia_Wars_and_the_Israel-Palestine_conflict...please_fill_out_my_survey?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 96 Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict...please fill out my survey? </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Wikipedia_Wars_and_the_Israel-Palestine_conflict...please_fill_out_my_survey?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Askar" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Askar"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 97 Askar </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Askar-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Searchable_Ottoman_records" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Searchable_Ottoman_records"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 98 Searchable Ottoman records </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Searchable_Ottoman_records-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 99 Message </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-AE_(August_2021)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#AE_(August_2021)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 100 AE (August 2021) </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-AE_(August_2021)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-AE_(September_2021)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#AE_(September_2021)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 101 AE (September 2021) </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-AE_(September_2021)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-DYK_for_Safad_El_Battikh" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#DYK_for_Safad_El_Battikh"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 102 DYK for Safad El Battikh </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-DYK_for_Safad_El_Battikh-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Military_government" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Military_government"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 103 Military government </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Military_government-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-A_cupcake_for_you!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#A_cupcake_for_you!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 104 A cupcake for you! </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-A_cupcake_for_you!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Help_w_sockpuppet_investigation" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Help_w_sockpuppet_investigation"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 105 Help w sockpuppet investigation </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Help_w_sockpuppet_investigation-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Moroccan_Quarter" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Moroccan_Quarter"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 106 Moroccan Quarter </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Moroccan_Quarter-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-You're_tangentially_involved_in_an_ANI_discussion" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#You're_tangentially_involved_in_an_ANI_discussion"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 107 You're tangentially involved in an ANI discussion </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-You're_tangentially_involved_in_an_ANI_discussion-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Draft_for_WP:ARCA" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Draft_for_WP:ARCA"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 108 Draft for WP:ARCA </div> </a> 11 comments <ul id="toc-Draft_for_WP:ARCA-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-This_may_interest_you" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#This_may_interest_you"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 109 This may interest you </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-This_may_interest_you-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2021_Elections_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2021_Elections_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 110 ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2021_Elections_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Question" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Question"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 111 Question </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Question-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-DYK_for_Reineh" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#DYK_for_Reineh"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 112 DYK for Reineh </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-DYK_for_Reineh-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Help" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Help"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 113 Help </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Help-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-14u" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#14u"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 114 14u </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-14u-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Anniversary" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Anniversary"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 115 Anniversary </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Anniversary-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ain_Dardara" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ain_Dardara"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 116 Ain Dardara </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Ain_Dardara-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Inappropriate_use_of_rollback" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Inappropriate_use_of_rollback"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 117 Inappropriate use of rollback </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Inappropriate_use_of_rollback-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Al-Khadr" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Al-Khadr"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 118 Al-Khadr </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Al-Khadr-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Beit_Kahil" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Beit_Kahil"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 119 Beit Kahil </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Beit_Kahil-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Faqua_(bubbles)" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Faqua_(bubbles)"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 120 Faqua (bubbles) </div> </a> 3 comments <ul id="toc-Faqua_(bubbles)-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Herod_Archelaus" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Herod_Archelaus"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 121 Herod Archelaus </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Herod_Archelaus-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Shireen_Abu_Akleh.jpg" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Shireen_Abu_Akleh.jpg"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 122 Orphaned non-free image File:Shireen Abu Akleh.jpg </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Shireen_Abu_Akleh.jpg-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Palmer's_P.N." class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Palmer's_P.N."> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 123 Palmer's P.N. </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Palmer's_P.N.-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Precious_anniversary" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Precious_anniversary"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 124 Precious anniversary </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Precious_anniversary-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Re:_a_redirect" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Re:_a_redirect"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 125 Re: a redirect </div> </a> 5 comments <ul id="toc-Re:_a_redirect-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Some_good_sources" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Some_good_sources"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 126 Some good sources </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Some_good_sources-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Happy_Seventeenth_First_Edit_Day!" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Happy_Seventeenth_First_Edit_Day!"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 127 Happy Seventeenth First Edit Day! </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Happy_Seventeenth_First_Edit_Day!-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Battir" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Battir"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 128 Battir </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Battir-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Zhomron" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Zhomron"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 129 Zhomron </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Zhomron-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2022_Elections_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2022_Elections_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 130 ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2022_Elections_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 131 Happy New Year, Huldra! </div> </a> 6 comments <ul id="toc-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Mail" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Mail"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 132 Mail </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-Mail-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Isaac_Le_Maire" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Isaac_Le_Maire"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 133 Isaac Le Maire </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Isaac_Le_Maire-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Christoph_Heidmann" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Christoph_Heidmann"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 134 Speedy deletion nomination of Christoph Heidmann </div> </a> 4 comments <ul id="toc-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Christoph_Heidmann-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Deir_Qal'a" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Deir_Qal'a"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 135 Deir Qal'a </div> </a> 7 comments <ul id="toc-Deir_Qal'a-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Precious_anniversary_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Precious_anniversary_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 136 Precious anniversary </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-Precious_anniversary_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-DYK_for_Ein_Samiya" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#DYK_for_Ein_Samiya"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 137 DYK for Ein Samiya </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-DYK_for_Ein_Samiya-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Are_you_well?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Are_you_well?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 138 Are you well? </div> </a> 11 comments <ul id="toc-Are_you_well?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ArbCom_2023_Elections_voter_message" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ArbCom_2023_Elections_voter_message"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 139 ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message </div> </a> 2 comments <ul id="toc-ArbCom_2023_Elections_voter_message-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-ITN_recognition_for_Refaat_Alareer" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#ITN_recognition_for_Refaat_Alareer"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 140 ITN recognition for Refaat Alareer </div> </a> 1 comment <ul id="toc-ITN_recognition_for_Refaat_Alareer-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Tantura" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Tantura"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> 141 Tantura </div> </a> 9 comments <ul id="toc-Tantura-sublist" 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class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><ul><li>Please leave any new messages on the bottom of this page. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~~~~.</li> <li>If you start a new section here, I will reply here.</li></ul> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Palestine/Tasks" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine/Tasks">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Palestine/Tasks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huldra/Archive_2" title="User talk:Huldra/Archive 2">User talk:Huldra/Archive 2</a></li> <li>{{subst:alert/first|a-i}}</li> <li>{{Contentious topics/editnotice|topic=a-i}}</li></ul> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Haftom_Zarhum" data-mw-thread-id="h-Haftom_Zarhum-2018-12-11T21:43:00.000Z">Haftom Zarhum</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Haftom Zarhum">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I never knew about the lynching of Zarhum until the AfD. After reviewing sources, I see this is treated as a separate event, highlighting the issue of racism. I will create an article on the incident in due time. Thanks for bringing it up at the discussion.<a href="/wiki/User:TheGracefulSlick" title="User:TheGracefulSlick">TheGracefulSlick</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheGracefulSlick" title="User talk:TheGracefulSlick">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-TheGracefulSlick-2018-12-11T21:43:00.000Z-Haftom_Zarhum" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 11 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:TheGracefulSlick" title="User:TheGracefulSlick">User:TheGracefulSlick</a>: well, as I said: There were some extremely ugly pictures surfacing (I think it was the Electronic Intifada that made a detailed analysis as to how many people beat him as he was lying on the floor, unmoving, bleeding to death.) I don't think we should have 2 articles about the event, but <a href="/wiki/Beersheva_bus_station_shooting" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Beersheva bus station shooting">Beersheva bus station shooting</a> should definitely be moved to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Lynching_of_Haftom_Zarhum&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Lynching of Haftom Zarhum (page does not exist)">Lynching of Haftom Zarhum</a> (or something similar) (and then expanded). It is the deliberate lynching of an innocent man which is notable about the event, IMO, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2018-12-11T21:58:00.000Z-TheGracefulSlick-2018-12-11T21:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:58, 11 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>In an encyclopedia where decisions were based on policies, not POV, that would be the move with the most popularity. The discussion, however, is not making me optimistic since Zarhum’s beating is being described as a “trivial” part of the shooting. We may just have to make due with another article.<a href="/wiki/User:TheGracefulSlick" title="User:TheGracefulSlick">TheGracefulSlick</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheGracefulSlick" title="User talk:TheGracefulSlick">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-TheGracefulSlick-2018-12-11T22:24:00.000Z-Huldra-2018-12-11T21:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:24, 11 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You are possibly correct. At least <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-video-shows-shot-eritrean-beaten-untreated-for-18-minutes-1.5392268">9 passersby</a> abused Zarhum (according to Haaretz) while he was dying, only 4 got (ridiculously lenient) "sentences". It is like the Deep South of the US, a hundred years ago, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2018-12-11T22:32:00.000Z-TheGracefulSlick-2018-12-11T22:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:32, 11 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Terribly disturbing to watch; I even read the actual perpetrator resumed shooting at one point, and they still continued to beat him. Anyways, I will let you know when it is complete in case you want to add anything to it.<a href="/wiki/User:TheGracefulSlick" title="User:TheGracefulSlick">TheGracefulSlick</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TheGracefulSlick" title="User talk:TheGracefulSlick">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-TheGracefulSlick-2018-12-12T00:20:00.000Z-Huldra-2018-12-11T22:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:20, 12 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Note_to_self" data-mw-thread-id="h-Note_to_self">Note to self</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Note to self">edit</a>]</div> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Talk:Kfar_Ahim#RfC:_Arab_vs._Palestinian?" title="Talk:Kfar Ahim">Talk:Kfar Ahim#RfC: Arab vs. Palestinian?</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Talk:Jabel_Mukaber#External_links" title="Talk:Jabel Mukaber">Talk:Jabel Mukaber#External links</a></li></ul> <ul><li><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=&title=Special%3ALinkSearch">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?target=&title=Special%3ALinkSearch</a></li> <li><a class="external free" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py">https://tools.wmflabs.org/sigma/editorinteract.py</a></li> <li><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers?username=&group=&editsOnly=1&creationSort=1&desc=1&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:ListUsers?username=&group=&editsOnly=1&creationSort=1&desc=1&wpsubmit=&wpFormIdentifier=mw-listusers-form&limit=50</a></li> <li>better: <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/newusers" title="Special:Log/newusers">Special:Log/newusers</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VPT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:VPT">WP:VPT</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:QUARRY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:QUARRY">WP:QUARRY</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_Holidays" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_Holidays-2018-12-22T00:53:00.000Z">Happy Holidays</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Happy Holidays">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><a href="/wiki/File:Snow_Covered_Trees_Starry_Night_(166032201).jpeg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Snow_Covered_Trees_Starry_Night_%28166032201%29.jpeg/100px-Snow_Covered_Trees_Starry_Night_%28166032201%29.jpeg" decoding="async" width="100" height="100" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Snow_Covered_Trees_Starry_Night_%28166032201%29.jpeg/150px-Snow_Covered_Trees_Starry_Night_%28166032201%29.jpeg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2c/Snow_Covered_Trees_Starry_Night_%28166032201%29.jpeg/200px-Snow_Covered_Trees_Starry_Night_%28166032201%29.jpeg 2x" data-file-width="2048" data-file-height="2048"/></a> </td> <td style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;"> </td> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">Best wishes for this holiday season! Thank you for your Wiki contributions in 2018. May 2019 be prosperous and joyful. --<a href="/wiki/User:K.e.coffman" title="User:K.e.coffman">K.e.coffman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:K.e.coffman" title="User talk:K.e.coffman">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-K.e.coffman-2018-12-22T00:53:00.000Z-Happy_Holidays" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:53, 22 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] Noël ~ καλά Χριστούγεννα ~ З Калядамі ~ Gott nytt år! </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:K.e.coffman" title="User:K.e.coffman">User:K.e.coffman</a> thanks, and same to you! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2018-12-22T21:53:00.000Z-Happy_Holidays" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 22 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Copying_within_Wikipedia_requires_attribution" data-mw-thread-id="h-Copying_within_Wikipedia_requires_attribution-2018-12-24T17:08:00.000Z">Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Copying within Wikipedia requires attribution">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. I see in a recent addition to <a href="/wiki/Hunin" title="Hunin">Hunin</a> you included material moved from <a href="/wiki/Margaliot" title="Margaliot">Margaliot</a>. That's okay, but you have to give attribution so that our readers are made aware that you moved the prose rather than wrote it yourself. I've added the attribution for this particular instance. Please make sure that you follow this licensing requirement when <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Copying_within_Wikipedia" title="Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia">copying within Wikipedia</a> in the future. — <a href="/wiki/User:Diannaa" title="User:Diannaa">Diannaa</a> 🍁 (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Diannaa" title="User talk:Diannaa">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Diannaa-2018-12-24T17:08:00.000Z-Copying_within_Wikipedia_requires_attribution" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:08, 24 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes, I noted it in the <a href="/wiki/Margaliot" title="Margaliot">Margaliot</a> article that I would move it to Hunin (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Margaliot&diff=prev&oldid=875114998">link</a>), then inadvertedly did not mention where it had been moved from in the Hunin article (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hunin&diff=prev&oldid=875115092">link</a>), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2018-12-25T20:09:00.000Z-Diannaa-2018-12-24T17:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:09, 25 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WP:ARBPIA_violation" data-mw-thread-id="h-WP:ARBPIA_violation-2018-12-31T22:30:00.000Z">WP:ARBPIA violation</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: WP:ARBPIA violation">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Please revert your latest edit to <a href="/wiki/Lifta" title="Lifta">Lifta</a>, which is a violation of WP:ARBPIA3. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2018-12-31T22:30:00.000Z-WP:ARBPIA_violation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:30, 31 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] As to your argument: the article is clear enough that the population was evacuated. Of course the decision to evacuate was because of the military situation. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2018-12-31T22:31:00.000Z-WP:ARBPIA_violation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:31, 31 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">User:Debresser</a> AFAIK, there is no violation on my part. My latest edits to Lifta was more than 24 hours apart,</dd> <dd>Also, discussion about Lifta should go on the talk page of that article, (for the benefit of other interested) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2018-12-31T22:34:00.000Z-Debresser-2018-12-31T22:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:34, 31 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You might have informed me simply that WP:ARBPIA3 has been annulled <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles#Amendment_request:_Palestine-Israel_articles_(November_2018)" title="Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles">here</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2019-01-02T00:00:00.000Z-Huldra-2018-12-31T22:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:00, 2 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Sorry, don't expect me to do your homework for you, (and I don't keep a list of where to link to) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-02T00:06:00.000Z-Debresser-2019-01-02T00:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:06, 2 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!-2018-12-31T22:39:00.000Z">Happy New Year, Huldra!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Happy New Year, Huldra!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em;height:173px;border-radius: 1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);" class="plainlinks"><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif/212px-Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif" decoding="async" width="212" height="173" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif/318px-Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif 2x" data-file-width="352" data-file-height="288"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Happy_new_year_01.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/177px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png" decoding="async" width="177" height="173" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/266px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/354px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1317" data-file-height="1288"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <div class="center" style="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"><a href="/wiki/New_Year" title="New Year">Happy New Year</a>!</div> Huldra, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable <a href="/wiki/New_Year" title="New Year">New Year</a>, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:Rubbish_computer" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Rubbish computer">Rubbish computer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rubbish_computer" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Rubbish computer">Talk</a>: <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Rubbish_computer" title="Special:Contributions/Rubbish computer">Contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Rubbish_computer-2018-12-31T22:39:00.000Z-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:39, 31 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </div> Send New Year cheer by adding {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Happy_New_Year_fireworks" title="Template:Happy New Year fireworks">subst:Happy New Year fireworks</a>}} to user talk pages. <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <dl><dd>Thanks! A Happy New Year to you, too! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2018-12-31T22:44:00.000Z-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:44, 31 December 2018 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="AN_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-AN_discussion-2019-01-07T03:14:00.000Z">AN discussion</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: AN discussion">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. I’m interested in your comment <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=877136370">here</a>. Could you explain which of the edits offered as evidence are not problematic, and why? In the alternative, would you be willing to mentor this user and help them avoid further trouble. You seem to be a competent editor with long experience. I appreciate your efforts to improve articles in a hotly contested area. <a href="/wiki/User:Jehochman" title="User:Jehochman">Jehochman</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jehochman" title="User talk:Jehochman">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Jehochman-2019-01-07T03:14:00.000Z-AN_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:14, 7 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Jehochman" title="User:Jehochman">User:Jehochman</a>, I do not know the truth about the <a href="/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)" class="mw-redirect" title="White Helmets (Syrian Civil War)">White Helmets</a>; perhaps they are heroes, perhaps they are villains, perhaps they are a mix of both. But I do believe that “truth” is the first casualty of virtually any war, especially in the Middle East. Therefor we should proceed with great caution, and never bombastically conclude that one side is right...before we have all the evidence.</dd> <dd>I remember vividly listening to <a href="/wiki/Nayirah_testimony" title="Nayirah testimony">Nayirah testimony</a> back in 1990 (yeah, I’m that old!!) ......not believing a single word of it, even when President <a href="/wiki/George_H._W._Bush" title="George H. W. Bush">Bush</a> repeated it (ordinary nurses in the Middle East simply did not speak English that fluently back then, as anyone with any knowledge of the area knew: there had to be more to the story than what was published. Which indeed it was.)</dd> <dd>And the Nayirah story was peanuts compared to the lies we were told during the <a href="/wiki/2003_invasion_of_Iraq" title="2003 invasion of Iraq">2003 invasion of Iraq</a>. If you only read/listen to US news, then you will miss much. I recall after <a href="/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_and_the_Iraq_War#Colin_Powell's_presentation" title="United Nations Security Council and the Iraq War">Colin Powell's presentation to the UN</a>, some local papers in Europe said straight out that what he was saying wasn't true, while every single US paper (which I saw) were gushing over about how convincing he had been. And remember the <a href="/wiki/Niger_uranium_forgeries" title="Niger uranium forgeries">Niger uranium forgeries</a>? Where they used the name of a Niger minister ...who hadn't been in office for 10 years? Lol, still president Bush used it...</dd> <dd>These last 30 years have showed us that our Western Government lie, lie, and lie again about the Middle East (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://theintercept.com/2018/02/06/lie-after-lie-what-colin-powell-knew-about-iraq-fifteen-years-ago-and-what-he-told-the-un/">link</a>) (and before you accuse me of being Kremlin stooge, or "married to an Arab", or a "Palestinian Muslim", as other editors here have......I'm born and raised, and still live in a NATO country, coming from pure WASP background. It was because I was totally misinformed about the Middle East when I grew up (virtually nothing of what I was taught turned out to be true) ...that I now add to the history of the Middle East.)</dd> <dd>To return to the White Helmets: we have virtually no independent coverage of areas where they operated. To quote <a href="/wiki/Peter_Hitchens" title="Peter Hitchens">Peter Hitchens</a>: <dl><dd><dl><dd>"The <a href="/wiki/Foreign_and_Commonwealth_Office" class="mw-redirect" title="Foreign and Commonwealth Office">FO</a> is in a mess over this. It has for years been backing the Islamist rebels against the Syrian government, a policy which involves supporting exactly the sort of people we would arrest if we found them in Birmingham.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Perhaps that is why it claims the ‘White Helmets’ are ‘volunteers’ (they are often paid) and that they have ‘saved over 115,000 lives during the Syrian conflict’ and done ‘brave and selfless work’ to ‘save Syrians on all sides of the conflict.’</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>When I asked them to provide independent, checkable evidence for these assertions, they came up empty after three days of searching.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>This is not surprising, as the ‘White Helmets’ generally operate only in areas controlled by unlovely bodies such as the <a href="/wiki/Al-Nusra_Front" title="Al-Nusra Front">Al-Nusra Front</a>, until recently an affiliate of <a href="/wiki/Al_Qaeda" class="mw-redirect" title="Al Qaeda">Al Qaeda</a>, and the equally charming <a href="/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam" title="Jaysh al-Islam">Jaish al-Islam</a> (Army of Islam), famous for putting captured Syrian Army soldiers in cages and using them as human shields.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Independent Western observers, whether they are diplomats or journalists, can’t really go to these zones, because they are quite likely to end up very dead and probably headless." (in <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6003349/PETER-HITCHENS-saving-Syrian-heroes-just-importing-fanatics.html">Are we saving Syrian 'heroes'... or just importing more fanatics?</a>, 29 July 2018),</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>So frankly, I don't find Kiwicherryblossom inserting "alleged" into, say <a href="/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack" title="Douma chemical attack">Douma chemical attack</a> inappropriate...when the <a href="/wiki/OPCW" class="mw-redirect" title="OPCW">OPCW</a> has not yet finally concluded that there ever was a chemical attack (all the other sources used are of the same quality that "proved" to the world that <a href="/wiki/Saddam_Hussein" title="Saddam Hussein">Saddam Hussein</a> had <a href="/wiki/Weapon_of_mass_destruction" title="Weapon of mass destruction">WMD</a> in 2003...).</dd> <dd>Frankly, I think the Syrian War articles are the worst shit-hole on Wikipedia (to use Trumph's language). Articles like <a href="/wiki/Eva_Bartlett" title="Eva Bartlett">Eva Bartlett</a>, <a href="/wiki/White_Helmets_(Syrian_Civil_War)" class="mw-redirect" title="White Helmets (Syrian Civil War)">White Helmets</a>, all the "chemical attacks" articles (where there is no independent confirmation that it ever even was a chemical attacks) are all totally one sided....anyone who has tried to better the situation over the last year or two have gotten topic banned. There is a varied group of people (I recognise some from the old Eastern European Mailing List affair...no love lost for the Russians there) who have had iron control over these articles for years. IOW: I think the wrong person got topic banned (yet again). I try not to get involved (Would you like to dive into a shit-hole? Nah, me neither), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-07T22:14:00.000Z-Jehochman-2019-01-07T03:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 7 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>My earliest political memories are Watergate and Vietnam. I’ve been around long enough to witness all kinds of official lying. They say news is the rough draft of history. We’re always going to have difficulty covering contentious current events. One strategy is to push for good or featured article status. That can bring in some neutral, quality conscious editors. <a href="/wiki/User:Jehochman" title="User:Jehochman">Jehochman</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jehochman" title="User talk:Jehochman">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Jehochman-2019-01-08T00:19:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-01-07T22:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:19, 8 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, my first demo (when I was about 18, or 19) was against the Vietnam war ("USA out of Vietnam!"); I first got interested in the Middle East politics in the 1980s.</dd> <dd>The problem with the Syrian articles, as I said, are an assorted group who "owns" them. They have been very, very good at getting topic banned any editor who doesn't agree with them. I tried to get <a href="/wiki/Robert_Fisk" title="Robert Fisk">Robert Fisk</a> into an article (see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Douma_chemical_attack/Archive_4" title="Talk:Douma chemical attack/Archive 4">Talk:Douma_chemical_attack/Archive_4</a>)...but since editors who close RfC do look at numbers, Fisk was excluded(!). (My RL friends lost the last bit of respect for WP over that one, when I told them.) Pushing for good or featured article status under such circumstances is totally futile, IMO. (If you want to "survive" in hotly contested areas on wp, you need to know which "edit wars" to walk away from.)</dd> <dd>I don't know why it is like this, if it is plain stupidity ("Our government is right!"), or other more nefarious reasons. (But we do know that, say, the British have spend a lot of money on so-called info wars)</dd> <dd>Kiwicherryblossom (KCB) is a case in point, they makes a robust defence for using "alleged" <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kiwicherryblossom&diff=prev&oldid=877268544">here</a>...if anything, those who reverted KCB should have been topic banned. Until that happens, these article will remain the "shit-hole of Wikipedia", <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-08T22:59:00.000Z-Jehochman-2019-01-08T00:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 8 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Numerous articles in RS talk about the douma chemical attack <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/26/obscene-masquerade-russia-criticised-over-douma-chemical-attack-denial">[1]</a>. The introduction says there is an interim report, and one waits. There are other reports, such as the look at the 'incident' in the New York Times, so it isn't like nothing can be written until the OPCW speak again. The introduction is not , censored, misleads not at all. You see a shit hole but perhaps thats in the eye of the beholder. <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-08T23:44:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-01-08T22:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 8 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The "Numerous articles in RS" typically come from the very same sources who produced "Numerous articles in RS" "proving" that <a href="/wiki/Saddam_Hussein" title="Saddam Hussein">Saddam Hussein</a> had WMDs, tried to buy uranium from Niger, etc, etc.</dd> <dd>Been there, seen that. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-08T23:50:00.000Z-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-08T23:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 8 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If you've been there , seen that, you must be wary of propaganda, in the widest sense then. Great. WMD , yes, and Katyn Massacre, yes , that too. Propagandists everywhere. <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-08T23:55:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-01-08T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:55, 8 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don't know a thing about the Katyn Massacre (never said I did), (or much about Eastern Europe, in general). (But yeah, I have been to Syria,) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-09T00:01:00.000Z-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-08T23:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:01, 9 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>OPCW have been to Syria too. They found sarin with regime signature. To just scream 'But IRAQ Iraq WMD WMd' every time the Assad-Putin regime are caught using CW seems pretty hopeless. You are really on a fringe that wants to implicate the OPCW, and the vast mass of evidence against the Assad regime as all part of a huge conspiracy or something. Its hopeless arguing with true believers though. You support your side whatever. I get it<a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-10T16:52:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-01-09T00:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:52, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Huh???? It is precisely because I am not a "true believer" about just about anything, that I would want articles to keeps possibilities open. You don't. I get it.</dd> <dd>There is also evidence supporting Assads claims, but all such evidence (say, <a href="/wiki/Robert_Fisk" title="Robert Fisk">Robert Fisk</a>) has conveniently been found not <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>.</dd> <dd>And OPCW never found sarin, at least not at the <a href="/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack" title="Douma chemical attack">Douma chemical attack</a>. They found various chlorinate chemicals, (which they would also have found beneath my kitchen sink). <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-10T22:06:00.000Z-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-10T16:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:06, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>The regime however has been found to have used sarin. Which you wouldn't find beneath your kitchen sink. So what you find at your house , and what the Assad regime uses against civilians, are not the same thing whatever your sarcastic rhetoric is meant to convey. I know they found sarin was not used at Douma. The article says that. If Fisk has hard evidence that supports Assad regime narrative at Douma , well you should certainly fight for the inclusion of that information at the article. I really doubt Fisk had any such thing, but fight for that in the article. If he has hard evidence that supports Assad regime denials of their doing anything nefarious at Douma that should be in the article. After the regime is in control of Douma Fisk says 'my earnest questions about gas were met with what seemed genuine perplexity.' Huh????( I think he is a fucking cretin. He doesn't think maybe they are afraid to talk? If his story about the doctor saying they all died of hypoxia isn't anywhere in the article thats maybe an omission. His story is part of the story of the way the attack was reported at least. I think his reflex is always to absolve the regime , I believe he knee jerk decided they didn't use sarin at Ghouta etc? He's obviously got his admirers, including your anonymous journalistic mate one gathers. Well, there we are. (Says he talked to a doctor with a story about how they died who by 'his own admission wasn't an eyewitness'. Seems legit. Fight for this essential information to be included. (You'd mock an article that presented this level of 'evidence' if it were presented by a journalist to push a story that implicate the regime. Be fair, you'd take a story like to the fucking cleaners if the wrong side presented such a story. Instead you call it massively important. Huh??? I'll leave your talk page alone now. We just very different sorts of editors and humans. ) <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-10T23:08:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-01-10T22:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:08, 10 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <ul><li>Please link to where it has been proven that the Syrian regime has used Sarin. (That might be true, I frankly do not know). However, what remains is that OPCW did not find any traces of Sarin at the <a href="/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack" title="Douma chemical attack">Douma chemical attack</a> site. What also remains is that US officials used the use of "chemical attack" as an excuse for the <a href="/wiki/2018_missile_strikes_against_Syria" class="mw-redirect" title="2018 missile strikes against Syria">2018 missile strikes against Syria</a>....even though (so far) no proof of any such chemical attack exist.</li> <li>As for censorship: an unemployed ex–finance guy named <a href="/wiki/Eliot_Higgins" title="Eliot Higgins">Eliot Higgins</a> is found to be a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> everywhere on wp...while <a href="/wiki/Robert_Fisk" title="Robert Fisk">Robert Fisk</a> is not. LOL! And I did fight to include Fisk's visit to Douma (See <a href="/wiki/Talk:Douma_chemical_attack/Archive_4" title="Talk:Douma chemical attack/Archive 4">Talk:Douma_chemical_attack/Archive_4</a>) ..and lost. Fisk talked to about 20 people (including 1 doctor), without "minders', while <a href="/wiki/Seth_Doane" title="Seth Doane">Seth Doane</a> spoke to far fewer (AFAIK), still <a href="/wiki/Seth_Doane" title="Seth Doane">Seth Doane</a> (and <a href="/wiki/Eliot_Higgins" title="Eliot Higgins">Eliot Higgins</a>) are considered RS for the <a href="/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack" title="Douma chemical attack">Douma chemical attack</a> article, while Fisk is not. This is censorship, pure and simple, and one reason why this article (and virtually all the rest of the Syrian war articles) really, truly are the "shit-hole of Wikipedia." <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-11T23:48:00.000Z-Jehochman-2019-01-07T03:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:48, 11 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>i don't know but , if you're right about this, how it regards Higgins work as against Fisk, it makes me feel like maybe wikipedia isn't so bad. <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-11T23:51:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-01-11T23:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:51, 11 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sigh, "You can lead a horse to the water, but you cannot make it drink", <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-11T23:58:00.000Z-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-11T23:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:58, 11 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>OPCW on evidence found at Khan Sheikhoun, you know material evidence, (not some vile hack talking to 20 people in a regime controlled area where saying the wrong thing can lead to torture and death <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-12-16/finally-naming-syrias-dead-these-are-victims-assad-regime">[2]</a> etc like Fisk does)</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> OPCW FFM : “The samples from Khan Shaykhun contain the three types of marker chemicals described above: PF6 [HFP], isopropyl phosphates and isopropyl phosphorofluoridates. Their presence is a strong indicator that the sarin disseminated in Khan Shaykhun was produced from DF from the Syrian Arab Republic stockpile.” Sigh , you're a true believer and you'll just keep denigrating people like Higgins, who look at evidence, and whose work has proven itself over time to be consistent with OPCW findings, and you'll venerate Fisk who conducts interviews with citizens in regime hands having been escorted into the area by his masters. Same at Ghouta, OPCW found the sarin came from the Syrian regime stockpile. You are a conspiracist. The shithole is in your eyes. <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-12T16:03:00.000Z-AN_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:03, 12 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> I haven't editing the Khan Shaykhun article, but LOL: do you honestly think people had freedom under <a href="/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam" title="Jaysh al-Islam">Jaysh al-Islam</a>???? (They were the ones who were in control over Douma, at the time of the <a href="/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack" title="Douma chemical attack">Douma chemical attack</a>). If I had lived in one of their controlled areas, I would probably have ended up one head shorter. Literally. (Being female, and a feminist.) As to your assertion that Fisk only talked to people under government control.....well, so did <a href="/wiki/Seth_Doane" title="Seth Doane">Seth Doane</a>, so why is one considered RS, while the other not? It is this double standard which makes the article a shit−hole. (And I would be grateful if you stopped personalising the discussion all the time), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-13T23:36:00.000Z-AN_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:36, 13 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>i thought the point at issue was whether the OPCW had implicated the regime in chemical weapons attacks , and then you write 'do you think people had freedom under Jaysh al islam'. What the fuck has that to do with whether the regime carried out sarin attacks and the OPCW found evidence, you know hard , chemistry, physics, type evidence, that the regime carried out the attacks. Typical 'divert, dismay, distract' response. Pointless discussing anything with true believers. If you're a feminist the fate of the woman here should concern you.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.pri.org/stories/2015-12-16/finally-naming-syrias-dead-these-are-victims-assad-regime">[3]</a> 'Rehab Allawi... The girl from the city Mouhassan in the Deir ez-Zor countryside, was arrested on January 16, 2013. She was a civil activist working in relief, and was a third year civil engineering student at the University of Damascus. "They charged her a fabricated charge of kidnapping an officer, in addition to the financing of terrorist groups. She was transferred to a court martial. On her last day in the cell, Rehab dreamt of wearing a white bridal dress; which increased her hope of obtaining freedom. However, she was called at midnight; which is strange for a woman to be called for interrogation at such a time inside [Security] Branch 215."</dd></dl> Rehab Mohammed Alawi... Killed by the Syrian regime under torture in its prisons.' It isn't only Jaish al islam who murder women and children. You know the regime and Russia and Iran have killed far , far, far more civilians than Nusra , IS, etc. Two wrongs don't make a right, but if killing women is your measure, Assadists win by a fucking country mile. <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-14T18:22:00.000Z-AN_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:22, 14 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Two things:</dd></dl> <ul><li>first, the OPCW has found no evidence of a chemical attack at Douma..and wp uses a double standard evaluating sources, accepting those sources which support the "official" Western perspective (like <a href="/wiki/Seth_Doane" title="Seth Doane">Seth Doane</a>), while dismissing those who dont (like <a href="/wiki/Robert_Fisk" title="Robert Fisk">Robert Fisk</a>), even when the information was collected under the same circumstances.</li> <li>secondly, I have no illusions about the Assad regime (read, say, <a href="/wiki/Aref_Dalila" title="Aref Dalila">Aref Dalila</a>), but there is a HUGE difference between the Assad regime and <a href="/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam" title="Jaysh al-Islam">Jaysh al-Islam</a>: the Assad regime would target you for what you have done (or what they think you have done), <a href="/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam" title="Jaysh al-Islam">Jaysh al-Islam</a> would target you for who you are.</li></ul> ...And I have lived under Assad! Lol, just for a month, and as a tourist some 15−20 years ago, but I felt perfectly safe...visiting <a href="/wiki/Palmyra" title="Palmyra">Palmyra</a>, <a href="/wiki/Krak_des_Chevaliers" title="Krak des Chevaliers">Krak des Chevaliers</a>, <a href="/wiki/Apamea,_Syria" title="Apamea, Syria">Apamea</a>, etc, etc. ....But I would not survive a single day under <a href="/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam" title="Jaysh al-Islam">Jaysh al-Islam</a> (A secular, non−Muslim female, who refuse to cover her hair? No way.) ...I have followed various blogs, and twitter users for this last 15−20 years in the Middle East, and what amazes me is the strong support Assad (and Hizbollah!) have gotten these last 5−10 years from the Christians in the area. Read what <a href="/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" title="Nassim Nicholas Taleb">Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a> (a Christian from Lebanon) writes here: "<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://medium.com/opacity/the-syrian-war-condensed-a-more-rigorous-way-to-look-at-the-conflict-f841404c3b1d#.g0daphvoh">The Syrian War Condensed: A more Rigorous Way to Look at the Conflict</a>" Or read this: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://angelusnews.com/voices/john-allen-jr/meeting-middle-east-christians-is-where-western-stereotypes-go-to-die">Meeting Middle East Christians is where Western stereotypes go to die</a>...where local Christians claim that 100percent of the Syrian Christians would vote for Assad, if there were free and fair elections in Syria. That Christian in the Middle East support Assad is one thing which simply isn't reported in the West at all. ('Support' is perhaps a bit strong, but like Taleb: they much prefer Assad to the alternative). Doesn't that make you think? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-14T23:57:00.000Z-AN_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:57, 14 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>This is all travelling a long way out from the fact that you refuse to accept evidence that Assad regime used sarin against civilians as they slept at Ghouta, and have been found to have used it at Khan Sheikhoun and CW multiple times. Douma , there is an interim report, and anyone reading the wp article will not be made to think there was a sarin attack there. It just fucking does not say that. meanwhile multiple RS talk of a chemical attack. You might think your cuddly secular ever so tolerant to bourgeois tourist would never use CW, but RS and much evidence, says otherwise. Taleb is a notorious propagandist for Assad and from what Ive seen of him on twitter an out and out crank. Whether Christians ( and their putative founder was into loving ones enemy, turning the other cheek etc , so you know, how 'Christian ' are the Christians), feel happy to turn blind eyes about CW is for them to decide. You are demonising a whole section of Syrian citizenry as 'head choppers' and exonerating amass murderer , whose regimes rule has been enforced by the ever so tolerant Iranian IRGC, ( you think as a woman you'd have an easy time in Iran), and the Putin regime. Millions are in exile. Millions. They are all head choppers and have had the wrong thoughts? At this moment 'Syria’s football team is currently playing Australia’s in the #AsianCup2019. Missing from the pitch are 15 footballers the Assad regime has murdered for defying it and seven players it is holding in detention.' You and I will have to agree to differ. If you and your 'ideas' and your pov take control of all Syria related articles then indeed, imho, it would be a shithole of all shitholes. <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-15T18:34:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-01-14T23:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:34, 15 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The fact remains that the US bombed Syria, after claiming that <a href="/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack" title="Douma chemical attack">Douma chemical attack</a> was a chemical attack, something for which they had exactly 0 proof.</dd> <dd>As for <a href="/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb" title="Nassim Nicholas Taleb">Nassim Nicholas Taleb</a> not being representative: I am not so sure. I have followed Middle East sources (blogs, twitter) for 15−20 years now, and what absolutely amazes me, is the increase in support these last 5−10 years for Assad and Hizbollah among Christians. (Take a look at youtube for some of the live performances of <a href="/wiki/Julia_Boutros" title="Julia Boutros">Julia Boutros</a>: some have English subtitles for her praise of Hizbollah). Especially after they retook <a href="/wiki/Maaloula" title="Maaloula">Maaloula</a> (FYI: Maaloula has a very special place in Christianity in the Middle East, with monasteries dating back 1500 years. They were NOT well treated, when they were under rebel command.) But the Christian support for Assad/Hizbollah is something which simply isn't reported in the West. (Did you read <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://angelusnews.com/voices/john-allen-jr/meeting-middle-east-christians-is-where-western-stereotypes-go-to-die">this article</a>, at all?)</dd> <dd>Personally, I don't think we are dealing with one white, and one black side in this war. More like various degrees of blackness. But I refuse to support a side which would gladly cut of my head. And I suspect yours, too. I suspect that if we two would live under, say <a href="/wiki/Jaysh_al-Islam" title="Jaysh al-Islam">Jaysh al-Islam</a>, we would end up as <a href="/wiki/Raed_Fares_(activist)" title="Raed Fares (activist)">Raed Fares</a>, <a href="/wiki/Samira_Khalil" title="Samira Khalil">Samira Khalil</a>, <a href="/wiki/Razan_Zaitouneh" title="Razan Zaitouneh">Razan Zaitouneh</a>, and many, many others: all dead or missing (presumes dead), from Western backed rebel territory, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-17T23:44:00.000Z-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-15T18:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 17 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Is there overwhelming evidence that the Assad regime has repeatedly used CW? Is there overwhelming evidence OPCW verified, that the regime sarin gassed children as they slept. Yes, or no? Zaitouneh and Fares, who represent[ed] every kind of intellectual honesty and courage were enemies of the kind of moral and intellectual abdication that Assadism and its supporters represent I would think. <a href="/wiki/User:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User:Dan the Plumber">Dan the Plumber</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_the_Plumber" title="User talk:Dan the Plumber">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-23T22:46:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-01-17T23:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:46, 23 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To your first question: frankly, I have no idea, I have not studied all the attacks, I have only looked into the <a href="/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack" title="Douma chemical attack">Douma chemical attack</a>. As for <a href="/wiki/Raed_Fares_(activist)" title="Raed Fares (activist)">Fares</a> and <a href="/wiki/Razan_Zaitouneh" title="Razan Zaitouneh">Zaitouneh</a> representing the opposition to Assad: most definitely. That was why they were in "rebel" territory. Alas, they were still killed.</dd> <dd>Btw, you are, so, so wrong when you think only "out and out cranks" among the Christians in the area support Hizbollah/Assad. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYNjwULQtu4&list=RDGYNjwULQtu4&index=1">Here</a> is <a href="/wiki/Julia_Boutros" title="Julia Boutros">Julia Boutros</a> in 2016, singing 'Ahibaii' to an extatic audience in <a href="/wiki/Dbayeh" title="Dbayeh">Dbayeh</a> (in the Christian heartland of Lebanon) ('Ahibaii' is the letter <a href="/wiki/Hassan_Nasrallah" title="Hassan Nasrallah">Hassan Nasrallah</a> sent his <a href="/wiki/Hizbollah" class="mw-redirect" title="Hizbollah">Hizbollah</a> fighters in 2006; put into music by Boutros. Still popular. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdZgkGI5h0A">Here is a 2013 performance, with English subtitles</a> (Starts at 3:40)) Not many hijabs among the audience, still they all seem to know the text by heart. Perhaps, because they have learned that the alternative is ending up like <a href="/wiki/Raed_Fares_(activist)" title="Raed Fares (activist)">Fares</a> and <a href="/wiki/Razan_Zaitouneh" title="Razan Zaitouneh">Zaitouneh</a>. (Btw, AFAIK, there were no Christian services while <a href="/wiki/Maaloula" title="Maaloula">Maaloula</a> was under rebel command, And <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRpa_S91-cc">this</a>: girls and boys dancing <a href="/wiki/Dabke" title="Dabke">dabke</a> together at the feast of Saint Thecla, autumn 2018; would most surely have cost you your life when Maaloula was under rebel command.) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-01-23T23:33:00.000Z-Dan_the_Plumber-2019-01-23T22:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:33, 23 January 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg" data-mw-thread-id="h-File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg-2019-01-10T18:04:00.000Z"><a href="/w/index.php?title=File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg (page does not exist)">File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Information.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/25px-Information.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/38px-Information.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/50px-Information.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure>Hi, I'm RonBot, a script that checks new non-free file uploads. 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I have found that the subject image that you recently uploaded was more than 5% in excess of the Non-free content guideline size of 100,000 pixels. I have tagged the image for a standard reduction, which (for jpg/gif/png/svg files) normally happens within a day. Please check the reduced image, and make sure that the image is not excessively corrupted. Other files will be added to <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_non-free_file_size_reduction_requests_for_manual_processing" title="Category:Wikipedia non-free file size reduction requests for manual processing">Category:Wikipedia non-free file size reduction requests for manual processing</a>. There is a full seven-day period before the original oversized image will be hidden; during that time you might want to consider editing the original image yourself (perhaps an initial crop to allow a smaller reduction or none at all). A formula for the calculation of the desired size can be found at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_resolution" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Image resolution">WP:Image resolution</a>, along with instructions on how to tag the image in the rare cases that it requires an oversized image (typically about 0.2% of non-free uploads are tagged as necessarily oversized). Please contact the <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ronhjones" title="User talk:Ronhjones">bot owner</a> if you have any questions, or you can ask them at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content">Wikipedia talk:Non-free content</a>. See <a href="/wiki/User:RonBot" title="User:RonBot">User:RonBot</a> for info on how to not get these messages. <a href="/wiki/User:RonBot" title="User:RonBot">RonBot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RonBot" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:RonBot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-RonBot-2019-02-02T18:00:00.000Z-File:Aya_Maasarwe.jpg" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 2 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Community_settlements" data-mw-thread-id="h-Community_settlements-2019-02-07T10:49:00.000Z">Community settlements</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Community settlements">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Please stop removing <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Community_settlements_(Israel)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Community settlements (Israel) (page does not exist)">Category:Community settlements (Israel)</a> from Israeli settlement articles. It is not an "in Israel" category, it simply has "Israel" in the title as it matches <a href="/wiki/Community_settlement_(Israel)" class="mw-redirect" title="Community settlement (Israel)">Community settlement (Israel)</a>, a specific type of village like a kibbutz or a moshav. The category was moved from its original title of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Community_settlements_in_Israel&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Community settlements in Israel (page does not exist)">Category:Community settlements in Israel</a> as a result of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2014_January_29#Category:Community_settlements_in_Israel" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2014 January 29">this discussion</a> specifically to avoid the "in Israel" claim. The category text also explicitly says that it contains villages in both Israel and the West Bank. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Number_57" title="User:Number 57">Number</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Number_57" title="User talk:Number 57">5</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Number_57" title="Special:Contributions/Number 57">7</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Number_57-2019-02-07T10:49:00.000Z-Community_settlements" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:49, 7 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm sorry, but that title is misleading, as is <a href="/wiki/Community_settlement_(Israel)" class="mw-redirect" title="Community settlement (Israel)">Community settlement (Israel)</a>. It should be moved, either to <a href="/wiki/Community_settlement" title="Community settlement">Community settlement</a>, or to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Community_settlement_(Israel_and_the_occupied_territories)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Community settlement (Israel and the occupied territories) (page does not exist)">Community settlement (Israel and the occupied territories)</a>. What do you suggest? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-02-07T20:26:00.000Z-Number_57-2019-02-07T10:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 7 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I completely disagree that it's misleading; a community settlement is an Israeli concept and that's what the "(Israel)" represents. Adding "and the occupied territories" would just be a point-scoring exercise.</dd> <dd>Nevertheless, I have always favoured the article being at "Community settlement" as it's the primary topic and the redirect goes to the Israel article. Start an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RM">WP:RM</a> with that suggestion and I will support it. If the RM closes in favour, the category can be moved as well via the speedy process. <a href="/wiki/User:Number_57" title="User:Number 57">Number</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Number_57" title="User talk:Number 57">5</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Number_57" title="Special:Contributions/Number 57">7</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Number_57-2019-02-07T20:42:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-02-07T20:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:42, 7 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Obviously it is misleading, as I was mislead! However, I agree with you about the name, not because your argument, but because <a href="/wiki/Community_settlement" title="Community settlement">Community settlement</a> is a heck of lot easier name to remember than <a href="/w/index.php?title=Community_settlement_(Israel_and_the_occupied_territories)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Community settlement (Israel and the occupied territories) (page does not exist)">Community settlement (Israel and the occupied territories)</a>. I will start a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RM">WP:RM</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-02-07T20:47:00.000Z-Number_57-2019-02-07T20:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:47, 7 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tel_Yokneam_(i.e._Tel_Qamun)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tel_Yokneam_(i.e._Tel_Qamun)-2019-02-09T14:25:00.000Z">Tel Yokneam (i.e. Tel Qamun)</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Tel Yokneam (i.e. Tel Qamun)">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I've been working more on the <a href="/wiki/Tel_Yokneam" title="Tel Yokneam">Tel Yokneam</a> article (which was created out of the <a href="/wiki/Qamun" class="mw-redirect" title="Qamun">Qamun</a> article, that other part of <a href="/wiki/Qira,_Haifa" title="Qira, Haifa">Qira</a> and Qamun). Since my understanding of this place changed several times after finding new and better sources, I may have removed a few sources from the 19th century. Could you run a small check in your sources to see if there are more sources about this site? Currently there are two sources, one by Robinson and one by Van de Velde. On another note, let me know if you are working on something interesting you might need some Hebrew sources for.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2019-02-09T14:25:00.000Z-Tel_Yokneam_(i.e._Tel_Qamun)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:25, 9 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sigh, this is when I really miss Tiamut: she is much, much better than me on this "seriously old stuff". I'll add the bits and pieces I can find, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-02-09T22:07:00.000Z-Bolter21-2019-02-09T14:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 9 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a>: There is also Guerin, Samarie II, 241–244 (pardon my French). And Le Strange, p473 (Kaimun). That article is looking very nice, a definite FA prospect. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-02-10T03:20:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-02-09T22:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:20, 10 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Can you link?--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2019-02-10T07:48:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-02-10T03:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:48, 10 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">User talk:Bolter21</a> There are some sources at jstor <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.jstor.org/action/doBasicSearch?Query=%22Tel+Yokneam%22">[4]</a> and google scholar<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://scholar.google.co.il/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22Tel+Yokneam%22&btnG=">[5]</a> did you check them all? --<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2019-02-10T08:22:00.000Z-Bolter21-2019-02-09T14:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:22, 10 February 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> Have something about <a href="/wiki/Tel_Qashish" title="Tel Qashish">Tel Qashish</a>? Probably Tell Qasis in your sources.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2019-03-16T22:27:00.000Z-Tel_Yokneam_(i.e._Tel_Qamun)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:27, 16 March 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">User:Bolter21</a>: Not much. It looks as if it is "Tell el Kussis" on SWP map 5, that is SWP I, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp01conduoft#page/352/mode/1up">352</a>, Palmer, 1881, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp00conduoft#page/117/mode/1up">117</a>: "the mound of the (Christian) priest", <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-03-16T20:24:00.000Z-Bolter21-2019-03-16T22:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:24, 16 March 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>See also:</dd></dl> <ul><li>Zuckerman, S. 1996. The Pottery of Tel Kasis and Jezreel Valley in the Early Bronze Age. (M.A. Thesis, Hebrew University). Jerusalem. (Hebrew with English Summary).</li> <li><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238218222">.mw-parser-output cite.citation{font-style:inherit;word-wrap:break-word}.mw-parser-output .citation q{quotes:"\"""\"""'""'"}.mw-parser-output .citation:target{background-color:rgba(0,127,255,0.133)}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-free.id-lock-free a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Lock-green.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited.id-lock-limited a,.mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration.id-lock-registration a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Lock-gray-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription.id-lock-subscription a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/Lock-red-alt-2.svg")right 0.1em center/9px no-repeat}.mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background:url("//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Wikisource-logo.svg")right 0.1em center/12px no-repeat}body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-free a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-limited a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-registration a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .id-lock-subscription a,body:not(.skin-timeless):not(.skin-minerva) .mw-parser-output .cs1-ws-icon a{background-size:contain;padding:0 1em 0 0}.mw-parser-output .cs1-code{color:inherit;background:inherit;border:none;padding:inherit}.mw-parser-output .cs1-hidden-error{display:none;color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-visible-error{color:var(--color-error,#d33)}.mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{display:none;color:#085;margin-left:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-left{padding-left:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .cs1-kern-right{padding-right:0.2em}.mw-parser-output .citation .mw-selflink{font-weight:inherit}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .cs1-format{font-size:95%}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .cs1-maint{color:#18911f}}</style><cite id="CITEREFWilson,_Charles_Williamsc._1881" class="citation book cs1">Wilson, Charles Williams, ed. (c. 1881). <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.archive.org/details/picturesquepales03wilsuoft">Picturesque Palestine, Sinai and Egypt</a>. Vol. 3. New York: <a href="/wiki/D._Appleton_%26_Company" title="D. Appleton & Company">D. Appleton</a>.</cite><span title="ctx_ver=Z39.88-2004&rft_val_fmt=info%3Aofi%2Ffmt%3Akev%3Amtx%3Abook&rft.genre=book&rft.btitle=Picturesque+Palestine%2C+Sinai+and+Egypt&rft.place=New+York&rft.pub=D.+Appleton&rft_id=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.archive.org%2Fdetails%2Fpicturesquepales03wilsuoft&rfr_id=info%3Asid%2Fen.wikipedia.org%3AUser+talk%3AHuldra" class="Z3988"> <code class="cs1-code">{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Cite_book" title="Template:Cite book">cite book</a>}}</code>: Unknown parameter <code class="cs1-code">|editorlink=</code> ignored (<code class="cs1-code">|editor-link=</code> suggested) (<a href="/wiki/Help:CS1_errors#parameter_ignored_suggest" title="Help:CS1 errors">help</a>) (pp. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/picturesquepales03wilsuoft/page/93/mode/1up">93</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/picturesquepales03wilsuoft/page/107/mode/1up">107</a>)</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>HHmm, that's unfortunate. Thanks anyways.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2019-03-16T22:27:00.000Z-Bolter21-2019-03-16T22:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:27, 16 March 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a>: I have the final excavation report: Amnon Ben-Tor, Ruhama Bonfil, Sharon Zuckerman. Qedem Reports, Vol. 5, TEL QASHISH: A VILLAGE IN THE JEZREEL VALLEY—Final Report of the Archaeological Excavations (1978–1987) (2003), pp. I-XLIV, 1-451. It will overlap with what you have but if you want it and can't easily get it, send me mail. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a>[[User_talk</dd> <dd>Zero0000|talk]] 01:58, 17 March 2019 (UTC) <dl><dd>I also have it through JSTOR. Thanks anyways.<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2019-03-24T15:10:00.000Z-Bolter21-2019-03-16T22:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:10, 24 March 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Bassel_al-Araj" data-mw-thread-id="h-Bassel_al-Araj-2019-03-10T03:06:00.000Z">Bassel al-Araj</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Bassel al-Araj">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Please note that on Talk:Bassel al-Araj there is a template warning editors to apply a maximum of one revert per 24 hour period. — Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Antiallesaktion" title="User:Antiallesaktion">Antiallesaktion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Antiallesaktion#top" title="User talk:Antiallesaktion">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Antiallesaktion" title="Special:Contributions/Antiallesaktion">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Antiallesaktion-2019-03-10T03:06:00.000Z-Bassel_al-Araj" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:06, 10 March 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Yes, <a href="/wiki/User:Antiallesaktion" title="User:Antiallesaktion">User:Antiallesaktion</a>, but 1RR doesn't count when we revert those who shouldn't have edited the article at all. Such as yourself, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-03-10T20:45:00.000Z-Antiallesaktion-2019-03-10T03:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:45, 10 March 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mamluk_Jerusalem" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mamluk_Jerusalem-2019-04-29T20:07:00.000Z">Mamluk Jerusalem</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Mamluk Jerusalem">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <ul><li>NB: all need the Arab script for their names:</li> <li><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Mamluk_Jerusalem" title="User:Huldra/Mamluk Jerusalem">User:Huldra/Mamluk Jerusalem</a>, with</li> <li>5 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Ribat_al-Mansuri" title="User:Huldra/Ribat al-Mansuri">User:Huldra/Ribat al-Mansuri</a></li></ul> الرباط المنصوري <ul><li>8 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Madrasa_al-Dawadariyya" title="User:Huldra/Madrasa al-Dawadariyya">User:Huldra/Madrasa al-Dawadariyya</a></li></ul> المدرسة الدوادارية <ul><li>18 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Al-Tankiziyya" title="User:Huldra/Al-Tankiziyya">User:Huldra/Al-Tankiziyya</a> (has article in he.wp and ar.wp)</li></ul> التنكزية <ul><li>25 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Al-Sallamiyya" title="User:Huldra/Al-Sallamiyya">User:Huldra/Al-Sallamiyya</a></li></ul> السلامية <ul><li>28 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Turkan_Khatun" title="User:Huldra/Turkan Khatun">User:Huldra/Turkan Khatun</a></li></ul> تركان خاتون <ul><li>29 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Al-Kilaniyya" title="User:Huldra/Al-Kilaniyya">User:Huldra/Al-Kilaniyya</a></li></ul> الكيلانية <ul><li>31 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Al-Khatuniyya" title="User:Huldra/Al-Khatuniyya">User:Huldra/Al-Khatuniyya</a></li></ul> الخاتونية <ul><li>32 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Al-Arghuniyya" title="User:Huldra/Al-Arghuniyya">User:Huldra/Al-Arghuniyya</a></li></ul> الأرغونية <ul><li>35 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Al-Manjakiyya" title="User:Huldra/Al-Manjakiyya">User:Huldra/Al-Manjakiyya</a></li></ul> <ul><li>48 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Tunshuk_Palace" title="User:Huldra/Tunshuk Palace">User:Huldra/Tunshuk Palace</a></li></ul> دار الست طنشق <ul><li>57 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Al-%27Uthmaniyya" title="User:Huldra/Al-'Uthmaniyya">User:Huldra/Al-'Uthmaniyya</a></li></ul> <ul><li>61 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Ribat_al%E2%88%92Zamani" title="User:Huldra/Ribat al−Zamani">User:Huldra/Ribat al−Zamani</a></li></ul> unclear <ul><li>62 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Al-Muzhiriyya" title="User:Huldra/Al-Muzhiriyya">User:Huldra/Al-Muzhiriyya</a></li></ul> المزهيرية <ul><li>63 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Madrasah_al-Ashrafiyya" title="User:Huldra/Madrasah al-Ashrafiyya">User:Huldra/Madrasah al-Ashrafiyya</a></li></ul> المدرسة الأشرفية <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Makeandtoss" title="User:Makeandtoss">User:Makeandtoss</a> shukran! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-29T20:07:00.000Z-Mamluk_Jerusalem" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Re_the_effing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Re_the_effing-2019-04-04T10:29:00.000Z">Re the effing</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Re the effing">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Sorry, Huldra, but I will make no such undertaking, on principle. Because to do so would be to subscribe to a mistaken interpretation of the terms contested. There are deeper reasons. The 'eff' word was first used in my upbringing by my mother, and it had absolutely nothing to do with sexual intercourse or defamation of her sex. To the contrary she was extremely careful to use proper language, and on the occasion she first used it, it fitted the circumstances to a tee:'Oh fuck!' when missing the slops bucket with some greasy dinner residue. Realizing we were present and had laughed out loud in surprise, she turned and threw us a broad beaming smile. A religious person once asked me not to use the remonstrative 'For Chrissake!', esp. since one could relieve one's exasperation with a term lacking any blasphemous connotation, i.e. 'for eff's sake'. Any suggestion that one legislate on language use, or internalize monitors to act as semantic sentinels for any infraction of 'politically correct' or 'proper usage' gets my hackles to rise. For 'eff's sake' has no more sexual innuendo than does 'Uh, cazzo!' (Oh, cock(up)! damn it) occasionally used by my otherwise linguistically purist wife, or putain (prostitute) you'll hear any French person of either sex utter when we might say 'oh,crap'. You'll hear women say 'je m'en fous' (I don't give a fuck) without any awareness that sexual sensitivities are at stake. I know the netscape's chockablock with foul-mouthed morons with a limited vocabulary, mostly expletive. I also know Wikipedia's prim code, though intended to combat personal invective, actually functions as a tripwire to get rid of editors, on the flimsiest grounds, whom one dislikes. In childhood, if an oversensitive kid weeps or whinges at being hurt by some attitude, pedagogically a teacher's best practice is to feign taking his or her complaint seriously, and then slowly talk them through it, so the child can slowly be reasoned out of what might otherwise strike a teacher as a wimpish tendency leading to a sense of victimhood if flatteringly endorsed. The funny thing about Wikipedia is that it is an adult world which imitates this praxis: one must show sympathy for the apparently aggrieved person's outrage at being the ostensible object of an attack, rather than reason, as adults should, by saying, if the grievance appears to be pretextual, that the claim is ungrounded, and ungrounded claims about other people are frowned on, that Wikipedia is not a place for gaming the odds by continually pettifogging whining in the hope someone you dislike will be 'disappeared'. Everyone knows this, but one can't call a spade a spade. Fine, that's how bureaucracies work. Sometimes, a stern 'pull your finger out' or 'stop wasting time on trivial pursuits', however, would save us massive quires/choirs of endless nagging disputatiousness at forums, esp. when the overarching evidence is that the disputants don't spend much time actually reading encyclopedic matter, editing it in, and building articles. They tweak, revert, and waste swathes of time using talk pages as a social forum to get people onside POV-wise or kill time because they don't have a serious life off-line. Lastly, for a short period, I tried to imitate the favoured neutered style which is one of the primrose paths to a distinguished wiki life, with disastrous effects on my natural turn of mind. To save my feel for language, I had to chuck the mimicry ('fuck it' in short). I've used that expression perhaps a half a dozen times over 13 years, at times as a personal safety valve to express exasperation, not to 'bully', and will continue, I expect, if I stay in here, to allow myself the liberty to use it. If that is not acceptable, well, 'stiff shit', sorry 'stiff cheddar', or as a Swiss lad once whispered to me, when I asked him to teach me some solid German expletives, Das ist Käse! the strongest term in his vocabulary for expressing the idea of being 'pissed off'. I felt sorry for him. Now, back to Aristophanes. His delightfully inventive foulmouthedness targeted Socrates, who wasn't offended. Plato paints a wonderful picture of their friendship in the Symposium. I need literature to remind me of how grown-ups were once before the gamesmanship of grievance trumpeting took over the world. Best regards <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-04-04T10:29:00.000Z-Re_the_effing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:29, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a>: I am not particularly offended by foul language and there are certain contexts where I will use it; nonetheless, situations where I will use it on Wikipedia are extremely rare [1] because we are supposed to work collegialy and I really struggle to think of a situation where swearing at someone will help to make the atmosphere more collegial and not less. If you are getting to the point where you need to express your frustration in that way, then either that person is editing tendentiously or you have too low a trigger for frustration with people you disagree with. In the latter case, you have some maturing to do. In the former, it will be much easier for you to get admin action against tendentious editing if you're not seen to be inflaming the situation with your language.</dd> <dd></dd> <dd>[1] I realise that one of these was only a few days ago, though I was quoting another editor. <a href="/wiki/User:GoldenRing" title="User:GoldenRing">GoldenRing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoldenRing" title="User talk:GoldenRing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-GoldenRing-2019-04-04T10:42:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-04-04T10:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:42, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd> <dl><dd>Perhaps the worst example of the mechanism/bureaucracy that our old friend expounds above is the fake and contrived attempt to paint Corbyn as anti-Semitic. I know from personal experience how peace activists operate, so I can be 100% certain that there isn't an anti-Semitic bone in Corbyn's body; that knowledge is strengthened by Corbyn's exemplary record over decades of activism against racism, including anti-Semitism. He's about as far as you can possibly get from real, horrifying anti-Semitism. which is a hatred of Jews merely because they are Jews, a hatred so intense that it can lead, in the extreme case, to genocide. --<a href="/wiki/User:NSH001" title="User:NSH001">NSH001</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NSH001" title="User talk:NSH001">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-NSH001-2019-04-04T12:10:00.000Z-GoldenRing-2019-04-04T10:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:10, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I can't let this comment stand without responding. It's apparent you have a bias. Your page makes it clear that you think Fisk and Finkelstein are worthy of opinions to share, but this is going too far. When 85% of British Jews and when the British Chief Rabbi makes a speech in the House of Lords, perhaps it's time to stop ignoring the situation. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-04T12:41:00.000Z-NSH001-2019-04-04T12:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:41, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>and not even a week later and this is leaked: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/27a911ec-58ac-11e9-a28c-4153b1332dc6">[6]</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-07T23:18:00.000Z-NSH001-2019-04-04T12:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 7 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:GoldenRing" title="User:GoldenRing">GoldenRing</a>. I would question whether the exclamative 'for fuck's sake' is 'foul language.' I'm known, even by those who militate to get me off Wikipedia, to be extremely particular about fine language distinctions. I never swore at the editor in question. Please note:- <ul><li>(a) <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=890600499&oldid=890597220">Come on, for fuck's sake. Logic please.</a> By no stretch can that be taken as swearing at a person. The exclamative or remonstrative idiom is reflexive, expressing the state of mind <a class="external text" href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/for_fuck%27s_sake">or frustration by the person who uses it</a>.'Google books clearly shows that. Expressing frustration is not forbidden by the rules, attacking people is. I'm not telling Debresser to get 'fucked' or 'fuck off'. I am telling him the lack of logic in his edit is frustrating and to try and edit logically.</li></ul></dd> <dd>What Debresser was pleading for is a ban on my use of fuck in any form. Admins can't be expected to have a memory for all the detailed history of interactions and edits. But those who work in this area do. He asked that I be 'outcasted' from Wikipedia for this usage.</dd> <dd>What's his own practice? To say 'fuck' when it suits him as with <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Lifta&diff=865837845&oldid=865740618">his recent dispute with Huldra</a>, and, after it was pointed out that what he finds unacceptable in myself is something he himself arrogates as a right he replies that in his unique case <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Debresser&diff=890904058&oldid=890903986">he was being humorous</a>.</dd> <dd>I.e. in this peculiar logic, I should be permabanned for using a word the plaintiff allows himself to use remonstratively with another editor. The <a href="/wiki/Talmud" title="Talmud">Talmud</a> covers everything, even this. At <a href="/wiki/Nashim" title="Nashim">Kiddushin</a> 70, we have the phrase: kol haposel bemumo hu posel), usually translated as a case of the pot calling the kettle black, (alternatively see Reuven Agushevits, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=srHsuOJhvcUC&pg=PA52">Principles of Philosophy,'</a> <a href="/wiki/KTAV_Publishing_House" class="mw-redirect" title="KTAV Publishing House">KTAV Publishing House</a>, Inc., 2008 p.52</dd> <dd>As to your point about collegiality, I’d be the first to underwrite it as both principle and practice. In this area a large number of editors hold it in contempt but watch their p’s and q’s. They challenge far too many edits by seeing who did them, revert without carefully sieving the source to check it has been correctly reported, use false edit summaries that fail all verification for what is done, and spend undue time trying to get AE opportunities to ban people whose editing they dislike, taking as disruptive any picayune expression of protest. That Debresser's edits were not only tendentious, but were done while he failed to even take a cursory glance at the source I introduced and used to document my text, can be proven objectively. But sloppy, insouciant editing is not a problem administratively. You can't be punished for that. But if someone is frustrated by it, perhaps he needs a permaban. Go figure.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-04-04T16:04:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-07T23:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:04, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>In general, if you can't get your point across without a wall of text, or using the "f" word, then you need to re-read Strunk and White. And the issue with you, is that you use the word far too often, I don't think I've seen Debresser use it more than once or twice. That's the point. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-04T16:20:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-04-04T16:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:20, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I read 100-200 pages a day, and the strength of my content additions comes from that, and close source control for everything I add to this encyclopedia. I.e. if someone copies and pastes from one wikipage to another pseudo-information like <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=next&oldid=890268182">this</a>, to cite one example, I spend a half an hour at least to verify whether my suspicion it is questionable is correct or not, and if found to be misleading, I alert <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Debresser&diff=890809492&oldid=890807569">editors like you and Debresser, who don't want me to edit there, that it needs fixing</a>. Rather than follow people around to make pointy comments, why not consider fixing the problem? I'll give you a clue: the majority of historic Yemeni Jews were not obliged to dress in blue or dark garb and generally dressed as their Arab neighbours did. If you haven't time to fix it, don't waste time niggling around talk pages. We are here to build articles, not niggle, nag, make cheap cracks or rush to defend friends. As it stands, the failure to correct that error means either (a) no one looked into the topic, even while reverting people who have or (b) editors are too lazy to trouble themselves, except on talk pages. Thank you.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-04-04T16:36:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-04T16:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:36, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>since you brought up following people around, how did you get to that article in the first place? That seems like a weird place for you to pop in. As for me, I didn't follow anyone, I have this page on my watchlist, please don't make aspersions.<a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-04T17:01:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-04-04T16:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:01, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Well, I'll close this by documenting scientifically why collegial editing is what does not exist here. The practice is one of reverting without even looking at the consequences of one's revert. This has happened to me scores of times in this company. How did I get there you ask?</dd> <dd>Esther (bookmarked) discussion led to Debresser's page. I didn't comment, though I thanked StevenJ for a compromise he offered. Keeping track I noticed that article mentioned below. I read it and noted several problems.</dd> <dd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=890183609&oldid=890136314">My edit</a></dd> <dd>2.<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=890255854&oldid=890197170">sniping response over trivia</a></dd> <dd>3. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=next&oldid=890255854">Remove superfluous sentence</a></dd> <dd>(a) Debresser broke my paragraph up into sentences. Acceptable. But this meant that the first sentence was detached from its source. Rather than check the source, (obligatory in my view if you meddle with a sourced text) he added a [<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" title="Wikipedia:Citation needed">citation needed</a>] request. Absurd. The source is there, on the page.</dd> <dd>(b) The superfluous sentence removed was</dd> <dd><blockquote>The first of the other <a href="/wiki/Abrahamic_religions" title="Abrahamic religions">Abrahamic religions</a> to impose a distinctive mode of dress on Jews was <a href="/wiki/Islam" title="Islam">Islam</a>, beginning with decrees set forth by the <a href="/wiki/Abbasid_caliph" class="mw-redirect" title="Abbasid caliph">Abbasid caliph</a> <a href="/wiki/Al-Mutawakkil" title="Al-Mutawakkil">Al-Mutawakkil</a> obliging <a href="/wiki/Dhimmi" title="Dhimmi">non-Muslims (dhimmis)</a> to wear distinctive marks, -buttons on their caps, patches on their sleeves, and generally honey-coloured garbs,- on their clothing in order to mark them off from members of the Muslim communities.<a href="#cite_note-1">[1]</a></blockquote></dd> <dd>Content dispute of course, but the ‘superfluous sentence’ cannot be this, which establishes the historical kernal, the origin of external imposition on Jews of discriminatory clothing. What was left in could be superfluous, in that it elaborates by an instance the principle cited. When Davidbena <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=next&oldid=890268182">added</a> (by copying and pasting from the Yemenite Jews page, without checking the sources, a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Undue" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Undue">WP:Undue</a> addition to the superfluous sentence, silence. The key sentence is eliminated, two superfluous illustrations, one displaying ignorance of the topic, are permitted to remain. Sheer incompetence.</dd> <dd>4. I restored this, indicating <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=890508167&oldid=890419229">the error Debresser made</a>. He had called for a citation when the citation already existed on the page because, I must assume, he didn't check or read the source given.</dd> <dd>5. Debresser ignores my point that what he wanted sourced is already sourced, and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=890523735&oldid=890511980">reverts me again</a>.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDONTHEARTHAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDONTHEARTHAT">WP:IDONTHEARTHAT</a>. He won't believe what I stated, which is however obvious. Technically this would be reportable as reverting without examining the source, and repeating the revert even after one had been notified. But I don't report people on principle.</dd> <dd>I.e. twice Debresser created a problem, demanded I fix it, which I did fix it, he reverted that as well. Content dispute? No. Provocative carelessness? No. the problem is that I must not get frustrated at shockingly careless editing, and persist in being collegial.</dd> <dd>The page still reads that a sourced piece of information is unsourced. Neither you nor Debresser want me on that page, and neither you nor Debresser for some days, have taken note that Debresser's double revert created a problem that didn't exist. So, fix it or tell someone on that page to do so.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-04-04T18:58:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-04-04T16:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239543626">.mw-parser-output .reflist{margin-bottom:0.5em;list-style-type:decimal}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .reflist{font-size:90%}}.mw-parser-output .reflist .references{font-size:100%;margin-bottom:0;list-style-type:inherit}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-2{column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-3{column-width:25em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns{margin-top:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns ol{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns li{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-alpha{list-style-type:upper-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-roman{list-style-type:upper-roman}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-alpha{list-style-type:lower-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-greek{list-style-type:lower-greek}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-roman{list-style-type:lower-roman}</style><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><a href="#cite_ref-1">^</a> Silverman 2013 p.47 </li> </ol></div></div> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Maybe if you 1) weren't so antagonistic, and 2) didn't paste such walls of text, people might listen more. It's just the way things go here. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-04T19:13:00.000Z-Re_the_effing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:13, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani/Archive_21#Khazar_theory_of_Ashkenazi_ancestry">Apropos, when things were more civil,a and I wasn't endlessly accused of anti-Semitism or being antagonistic</a>. I was raised, as every serious orthodox Jew is raised, to think nothing of daily reading dozens of pages of difficult texts. So I don't take seriously anyone who complains that a few paragraphs is a strain on one's attention span. You should feel obliged to fix it because (a) you asked me not to contribute on Jewish topics some years ago, rather outrageously (b) do not want me on this page (c) have been informed that the page has two errors, one gross, and provided with the information to fix both. If you don't fix it, or alert editors that false information is on that page required adjustment, why are you editing here?<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-04-04T19:25:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-04T19:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:25, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>a) I don't recall me asking you not to edit Jewish topics. b) It's not my page to tell you to stay or go. c) I'm not in charge of any page or its errors and I haven't interacted with you at all on that page about that edit so don't bring me into it. d)And again, there you go again with your antagonism. I edit here because I choose to. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-04T19:58:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-04-04T19:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:58, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> If the two of you have something to talk about, or talk past each other about, I am sure there are better places than Huldra's user talk page. Nishidani, I myself would say if somebody does not want to read a "wall of text" then editing an encyclopedia is probably not the best use of their time. But then again, what this has to do with Huldra or her talk page is not something I fully understand. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2019-04-04T19:47:00.000Z-Re_the_effing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:47, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a>, with all respect: there are two reasons why I dislike swearwords, especially in public discourse.</li> <li>1. I was brought up in a pretty religious household (though not as religious as my mothers siblings, where they all prayed together before dinner); if anyone had used a swearword half the household would have dropped dead of shock.</li> <li>2. (Most importantly): I am concerned about the signal vs. noice ratio....I try my very best to have a high "signal rate", ie. get info into WP. I try my best to avoid the "dramah" boards, and other "time thieves". And using the f word (or c word)....that is pure "noice".</li> <li>Notes A: (Off course people have double standard: a quick search found Debresser using the f word <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser/Archive_7" title="User talk:Debresser/Archive 7">several</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser/Archive_11" title="User talk:Debresser/Archive 11">times</a>. Pot.Kettle.Black. Alas, you didn't really expect anything else, did you?)</li> <li>Notes B: There have been rules about clothing since at least Roman times, when only certain people could use purple. In the town where I live there were lots of rules in the Middle Ages about "loose women" not being allowed to use colourful dresses, while, as I recall, the Kings in the 1500s were desperately (and mostly fruitlessly) forbidding the nobility to wear more than 3 gold necklaces (if I recall correctly), lots of laws about that.. Fascinating subject, and certainly not only something concerning Jews.<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-04T20:53:00.000Z-Nableezy-2019-04-04T19:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I agree. We should avoid at all costs the use of offensive language. I have never forgotten that when I was a small child and had said a bad word to my older sister, I was immediately rushed by mother into the bathroom where she washed out my mouth with soap.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-04T22:00:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-04T20:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:00, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> Huldra, you know I like you. And when I know people dislike certain language Ill try, not without fail, to mind my own. But the world is a big place, and people dont all have the same feelings on what is or is not "offensive". You and I grew up in very different times and places, and my experiences shape me just as yours shape you. I dont personally think a casual use of the f word is not offensive. Or the s word, or hell the c word (if we are talking about the same one). Really, outside of a very limited set of words (like the n-word and maybe one or two other ethnic slurs), I dont think it is reasonable to expect people on the internet to follow somebody's personal standards in language use. I say things to my closest friends that my mother would possibly murder me over. And I dont think those things are offensive at all (well some of them are, but still). What is "civil" depends entirely on the community in question, and in this community, on the internet, I dont think the use of a swear word can rightfully be called "uncivil". <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2019-04-04T22:17:00.000Z-Re_the_effing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:17, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Nableezy, as I said; it isn't my personal feeling that is most important, it was my second point, namely the "noice" level it creates. And Wikipedia isn't just any internet site, like reddit, or imgur etc....we are (supposedly!) here to "build an encyclopaedia" etc, etc. I prefer to look upon this place as a (mini) UN, where people of completely different view points try to work out, eh, something. Telling people they are idiots (especially if they are!), or telling them their edits stinks is never helpful. And especially in "our field", (ie the I/P area), where a dozen editors watch your every edit, and some have a very short threshold for going to the "dramah" boards in order to "take out" "one of the enemy".</dd> <dd>Look at it as a purely practical matter: using such language here, in the I/P area, inevitably brings on a lots and lots of "noice". (Just all the text written today about it proves that!) Is it worth it? I think not. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-04T22:42:00.000Z-Nableezy-2019-04-04T22:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:42, 4 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]<div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div></dd></dl> (a)SJ. <blockquote>'I don't recall me asking you not to edit Jewish topics.'</blockquote> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nishidani&diff=768054999&oldid=768054435">1 March 2017 And you shouldn't get too emotional about things, if you do, perhaps try to stay away from those areas that get you worked up. Focus away from Jews and switch to Australia</a> (b) To sum up, an attempt, one of several, made over the last years, to catch at a warning by Sandstein to get me permabanned simply because I, like the plaintiff, dropped the eff word at tendentiously obstructive edit-warring. It failed. Our admin raised legitimately the point that it is not best practice, not conducive to the collegial atmosphere required. The fundamental point about collegiality is using commonsense. The gravamen of everything is this. I wrote: <blockquote>The <a href="/wiki/Torah" title="Torah">Torah</a> set forth rules for dress that set Jews apart from the communities in which they lived, . . .<a href="#cite_note-2">[1]</a></blockquote> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239543626"><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-2"><a href="#cite_ref-2">^</a> <a href="/wiki/Eric_Silverman" title="Eric Silverman">Eric Silverman</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=nZYdAAAAQBAJ&pg=PR15">A Cultural History of Jewish Dress,</a> <a href="/wiki/A%26C_Black" class="mw-redirect" title="A&C Black">A&C Black</a>, 2013, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1238218222"><a href="/wiki/ISBN_(identifier)" class="mw-redirect" title="ISBN (identifier)">ISBN</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:BookSources/978-0-857-85209-0" title="Special:BookSources/978-0-857-85209-0">978-0-857-85209-0</a> pp.xv, 24 </li> </ol></div></div> Twice Debresser removed the source which warranted that generalization, and twice he tagged it with a citation needed notice. Even after strenuous collegial efforts to get Sir Joseph or Debresser to fix the blunder the latter made, it remains tagged. <blockquote>The <a href="/wiki/Torah" title="Torah">Torah</a> set forth rules for dress that set Jews apart from the communities in which they lived,[<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed" title="Wikipedia:Citation needed">citation needed</a>]</blockquote> Days trying to get Debresser or Sir Joseph to fix this have failed. What the Italians call an impuntatura, stubbornly digging one’s heels in and refusing to fix per request an obvious error. Why. There is only one explanation. Nishidani wants that done, so even if he is right, don't fix it to do him a favour even if this means the article remains tainted with an improper tag. That, Dear GoldenRing is the collegial atmosphere in which people like myself are asked to work in here. Simple problems easily resolved with intelligence and good will develop into futilely humongous threads of ridiculous attitudinizing and second –guessing suspected motives (for eff’s sake:)). <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-04-05T08:35:00.000Z-Re_the_effing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:35, 5 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Since you're still talking... I never asked you to stay away, as your comment points out, I suggested that if you get emotional, it might be better for you to step away, I never told you to. Secondly, you keep saying that you told me to fix errors on that page. As I keep pointing out, I was not involved, so stop bringing me up. That you are involved in an edit dispute with Debresser doesn't mean you are in an edit dispute with me. I have nothing to do with this. Secondly, I don't own that page. I know that's a foreign concept to you but people don't own pages and we don't have to edit if we don't want to. Notice how I got my point across in a couple of sentence? That's how it should be. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-05T13:27:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-04-05T08:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:27, 5 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><blockquote>That you are involved in an edit dispute with Debresser doesn't mean you are in an edit dispute with me. I have nothing to do with this.</blockquote></dd> <dd>The first Latin dictum I memorized wsas:Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto. Debresser, like Davidbena, is of course watching this page. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jewish_religious_clothing&diff=890663820&oldid=890661010">You edit that page</a>. I've notified all three editors of an error. Silence. Collegality, yeah.</dd> <dd>I rarely get 'emotional', except when listening to, say, the last bar of <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p9Wbk3BFVg">songs like this</a>, reciting a poem or delivering a funeral oration. Just things like that. I grew up in far too tough a neighbourhood where the art of sledging one-upmanship was a craft practiced wittily by real masters of hurtful chiakking, and where serious fighting a regular feature, to take this intense world of petty bickering as anything more than a sad index of frailty. To suggest I get 'emotional' about 'Jews' is a deeply offensive insinuation that I am antisemitic.</dd> <dd>The second point was that your remark suggesting I was being 'emotional' about Jewish topics looks projective, in so far as you later added:</dd> <dd><blockquote><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Nishidani&diff=next&oldid=768058086">people get worked up over lots of areas. I stopped following many pages when I couldn't help getting worked up</a></blockquote></dd> <dd>I certainly am aware that my demanding manner of getting things right, sources checked, and the exercise of logical judgement translates into coming over to many as a kind of second-hand rerun of the sniffish <a href="/wiki/The_Paper_Chase_(film)" title="The Paper Chase (film)">Kingsfield</a>. But that can't be helped. I'm not here for social distraction, but to ensure strict quality control of articles and collegial hard work by fellow editors.</dd> <dd>I was raised in the Judeo-Christian world, and therefore regard Jewish heritage to be an ineludible part of my life, that if it can be quantified half of my sense of modernity is informed by what I have learned from thinkers, writers and poets who happen to be Jewish. Being 'Jewish' to me is synonymous with an acute sense of being an outsider, never quite at home in any world yet comfortable with its diversity, and sensitive to discrimination. something I admire and hope to have absorbed, consolidating what has been a recognized part of my character since early childhood. Of course, there are as many kinds of 'Jew' as there are Jews, a formulation true of any ethnicity. So yes, I have an abiding attachment to understanding that, as I do the several other cultures I have studied in depth.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>What is remarkable about much editing on Jewish topics on Wikipedia is that the quality of the articles is (a) poverty-stricken (b)dominated by a we against them suspiciousness (c)where editor-awareness of Jewish history is remarkably thin, surprisingly uninterested in the scholarship in the field (d) blinded by some confusion over a nation-state and Jews, as if they were interchangeable (e) as, as a consequence, tending to edit towards a collectivist vision of Jews in a way mirroring the collectivist identity impetus of any young nation (f) so the narrative of the past must emphasise anything conducive to a vision of the unity of a suffering minority against the murderousness of the goy majority until the redemption of normalcy emerging in the acquisition of one's own state solved the historical tragedy of righting the wrong performed in 70/135 CE. No one owns their ethnic culture, has proprietorial rights or can get away with the idea birthright means comprehensive insight. <a href="/wiki/Joseph_Conrad" title="Joseph Conrad">Joseph Conrad</a> knew more about English prose and culture than 99% of solidly ethnic Englishmen.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>All those ingredients are problematical, together they are a sure recipe for banality, at least to this cultural historian. In any case, you said in the first diff your belief is that editing in this area is frustrating because it's 'a numbers game and your side has the numbers which is why most IP articles are heavily biased, those are the rules.' If I believed that, I would never work talk pages so hard to try and get fellow editors to see past our POV residues into the heart of a topic. So I can't edit there, in this perspective, and even a polite note to fix a flaw will fall on deaf ears, for the numbers, here negative in my regard, decide what can and cannot be said, and in this case, that means the errors I spot, will not be corrected. Fine. Sorry for the extended thread here, Huldra. I have abused your hospitality.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-04-05T16:27:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-05T13:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:27, 5 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="colors" data-mw-thread-id="h-colors-2019-04-06T11:43:00.000Z">colors</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: colors">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Look at <a href="/wiki/Al-Muharraqa" title="Al-Muharraqa">Al-Muharraqa</a>. Maybe "Village" is less important than the color? <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-04-06T11:43:00.000Z-colors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:43, 6 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">User:Zero0000</a>, definitely! Thanks, then that could be a solution. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-06T20:09:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-04-06T11:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:09, 6 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> Speaking of colors, I wonder if it is time to tone down the color of the navbox. Please compare <a href="/wiki/Template:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus" title="Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus">Template:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus</a> side-by-side with <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zero0000/sandbox/Template:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zero0000/sandbox/Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus (page does not exist)">User:Zero0000/sandbox/Template:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus</a>. Is the new version better? <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-04-07T12:54:00.000Z-colors" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:54, 7 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">User:Zero0000</a> the new colour looks fine, IMO, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-07T23:49:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-04-07T12:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:49, 7 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Israeli_government_maps" data-mw-thread-id="h-Israeli_government_maps-2019-04-09T12:04:00.000Z">Israeli government maps</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Israeli government maps">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I fixed the URLs in the "govmap" line of the Israel pane, which didn't work for months. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-04-09T12:04:00.000Z-Israeli_government_maps" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:04, 9 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DS_Alert" data-mw-thread-id="h-DS_Alert-2019-04-17T23:50:00.000Z">DS Alert</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: DS Alert">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256334245">.mw-parser-output .ivmbox{margin-bottom:1em;border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,#fdf2d5);padding:0.5em;display:flex;align-items:center}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ivmbox[style*="background"]{background-color:var(--background-color-warning-subtle,ivory)!important;color:inherit}}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-image{padding-left:1px;padding-right:0.5em;max-width:100px;flex:1 0 25px}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text{padding:0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .ivmbox-text>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}</style><div class="ivmbox" style="background-color: #E5F8FF;"> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 50px"><a href="/wiki/File:Commons-emblem-notice.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Commons-emblem-notice.svg/50px-Commons-emblem-notice.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Commons-emblem-notice.svg/75px-Commons-emblem-notice.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Commons-emblem-notice.svg/100px-Commons-emblem-notice.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date. You have shown interest in the <a href="/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict" title="Arab–Israeli conflict">Arab–Israeli conflict</a>. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AC/DS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AC/DS">discretionary sanctions</a> is in effect. Any administrator may impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AC/DS#Sanctions" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AC/DS">sanctions</a> on editors who do not strictly follow <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">Wikipedia's policies</a>, or the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AC/DS#Page_restrictions" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AC/DS">page-specific restrictions</a>, when making edits related to the topic. For additional information, please see the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AC/DS#Guidance_for_editors" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AC/DS">guidance on discretionary sanctions</a> and the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ArbCom" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ArbCom">Arbitration Committee's</a> decision <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles">here</a>. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor. </div> </div> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Yeah, well, I last got one of them from Icewhiz on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:AbuseLog&wpSearchFilter=602&wpSearchTitle=User+talk%3AHuldra">13 November 2018</a>, I thought once a year was enough? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-17T23:50:00.000Z-DS_Alert" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:50, 17 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You're right that one DS alert is sent per year. I just now saw that.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-17T23:54:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-17T23:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:54, 17 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="AE_(April_2019)" data-mw-thread-id="h-AE_(April_2019)-2019-04-18T00:42:00.000Z">AE (April 2019)</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: AE (April 2019)">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> For good or bad, better or worse, I am submitting an Arbitration Enforcement (AE) against you, because of your POV edits (namely <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Solomon%27s_Pools&diff=892923040&oldid=892903507">here</a>) with respect to an article that remotely involves the Arab-Israeli conflict. The AE report has been filed <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Huldra">here</a>. Although I am not sure that the action that I am taking on AE is the proper venue (perhaps not), but at least I am confident that some action must be taken against you.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-18T00:42:00.000Z-AE_(April_2019)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:42, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I raised a clarification request earlier this year<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=887668566#Motion:_Palestine-Israel_articles">[7]</a> concerning an American Muslim Congresswoman where the dispute was a part of her article. The decision basically was that there's a distinction between "reasonably construed" and "broadly construed" and that articles such as the one I was concern with and the one you are concerned with are "broadly" hence 1RR doeen't apply. <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2019-04-18T15:34:00.000Z-Davidbena-2019-04-18T00:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:34, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">User:Doug Weller</a>, I don't understand one bit of this, except that an editor who made an obvious violation walked off scot free on a technicality: not very reassuring. And the issue of Solomon is very central to the Israeli settler movement on the West Bank: straight in the middle of the I/P conflict. That an editor who just come off a topic ban from the I/P area are not familiar with ARBPIA 1RR is not credible, to say the least. I have now added {{ARBPIA 1RR editnotice}} to the talk page: does that mean 1 RR is now in place? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-18T20:22:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2019-04-18T15:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Nope. A pagenotice goes on the edit page when you click edit, and only an admin can add it, and it has to be logged properly. I am not sure that the page itself is under ARBPIA though regardless. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-18T20:29:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-18T20:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:29, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank for telling me about {{ARBPIA 1RR editnotice}}, I didn't know. I have added an {{ARBPIA}} instead. See my above note on Solomon, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-18T20:35:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-18T20:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:35, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>"Innocent me." Huldra, my advice to you is to stop trying to <a href="/wiki/Game_the_system" class="mw-redirect" title="Game the system">Game the system</a>.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-18T20:44:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-18T20:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:44, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You can't add that either, since per the last ruling, as your AE action stated, in order for the article to be under AE, an admin has to log the page, so the template will do nothing but confuse everyone. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-18T20:49:00.000Z-Davidbena-2019-04-18T20:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:49, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>If that is correct, then that is a huge new change. Than would mean that say, edits like <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Temporary_International_Presence_in_Hebron&diff=prev&oldid=874116870">this</a>, by Shrike also would have to go, right? <a href="/wiki/User:GoldenRing" title="User:GoldenRing">User:GoldenRing</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Sandstein" title="User:Sandstein">User:Sandstein</a>, is Sir Joseph correct? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) 21:00, 18 April 2019 (UTC) Pinging <a href="/wiki/User:BU_Rob13" title="User:BU Rob13">User:BU Rob13</a>, too, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-18T21:00:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-18T20:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>No idea. Why don't you look it up? ArbCom decisions are made in writing. <a href="/wiki/User:Sandstein" title="User:Sandstein"> Sandstein </a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sandstein-2019-04-19T08:12:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-18T21:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:12, 19 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>I removed it. This is it's best for only an admin to place it. Without proper logging, it's not enforceable. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2019-04-18T21:18:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-18T21:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:18, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>If this is the new rule, then it is absurd. I would guess that up to now more than 90% of {{ARBPIA}} notices have been placed by non−admins. Do admins suffer from a lack of work? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-18T21:23:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-18T21:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:23, 18 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I opposed this at ARCA. I do not think you are prevented from placing ARBPIA talk page banners (they are merely informative) and you can request the 1RR thing be placed at RfPP. However, I think I see eye to eye with you on the downsides of the new edit notice required rule. The page does not need to be DS logged - it just needs the ddit notice for this to be enforceable (1rr still apploes topic wide, but editors are considered uninformed absent an edit notice).<a href="/wiki/User:Icewhiz" title="User:Icewhiz">Icewhiz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Icewhiz" title="User talk:Icewhiz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Icewhiz-2019-04-19T14:53:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-18T21:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:53, 19 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a>, you are very quickly reverting back to the behavior that saw you topic-banned. I would have hoped that would not happen so quickly. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2019-04-19T05:57:00.000Z-AE_(April_2019)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:57, 19 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles</a> is an "authoritative compilation" of ARBPIA rulings. I don't see anything about logging page editnotices. It does say that 1RR cannot be enforced on pages without a {{ARBPIA 1RR editnotice}} (which goes on the article, not the talk page). However, my reading is that the 300/50 restriction does not need the editnotice. I don't know if only admins have the power to add editnotices; hit the full-page (not top section) edit link and see if a link "page notice" appears at the top right. If you can't do it, you can tell me what pages you think it is needed on. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-04-19T18:23:00.000Z-AE_(April_2019)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:23, 19 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Admins and template-editors can create or edit those page editnotices. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2019-04-19T18:28:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-04-19T18:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:28, 19 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <dl><dd>It looks to me that arb.com have introduced rules which contradicts each other. Look at the wording of <a href="/wiki/Template:ArbCom_Arab-Israeli_editnotice" title="Template:ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice">Template:ArbCom Arab-Israeli editnotice</a> (that is, {{ARBPIA 1RR editnotice}}), it says (under "Template documentation"): "Note that a lack of this template is not an indication that the article is not subject to the restriction."</dd> <dd>Alas, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=887668566#Motion:_Palestine-Israel_articles">here</a>, on 14 March 2019 they add "This remedy may only be enforced on pages with the {{ARBPIA 1RR editnotice}} edit notice."</dd> <dd>To me, this looks absurd, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-19T20:39:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-04-19T18:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:39, 19 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:L235&diff=893262908&oldid=892772509">[8]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-04-20T04:54:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-19T20:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:54, 20 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Huldrra, <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">User:Zero0000</a>, I wasn't happy when I was told that 1RR only applies to articles that are clearly "reasonably construed" and not to articles where the dispute is not the main subject. I think that's wrong and in any case we should replace "reasonably construed" with something clearer. The long and short of it is that someone for instance changes locations within an article that in itself is irrelevant to the dispute we can do nothing about it. Even those where there is a section on the dispute cannot be put under ECP. This isn't like a topic ban which would cover such instances but I think it should be. — Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller#top" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Doug_Weller" title="Special:Contributions/Doug Weller">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2019-04-20T07:49:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-04-20T04:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:49, 20 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Icewhiz" title="User:Icewhiz">Icewhiz</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a>, and <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a>:- Per the committee's recent <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/887668566#Motion:_Palestine-Israel_articles" title="Special:PermanentLink/887668566">motion</a>, all of ARBPIA (reasonably construed) is under 1RR by dint of the committee's remedy, but it is only enforceable if the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:ARBPIA_1RR_editnotice" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:ARBPIA 1RR editnotice">ARBPIA 1RR editnotice</a>}} is in place. Note that this is quite different to other topics where discretionary sanctions are authorised, where an administrator might place a 1RR restriction on a particular page as a discretionary sanction. The effect of the editnotice is not to place a page under 1RR, but to make a 1RR that is already in place enforceable. An enforcing administrator can't just rely on the presence of the editnotice to determine that 1RR is in effect; they have to actually consider whether the page falls into the ARBPIA scope, reasonably construed. The result of this is that any editor may place the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:ARBPIA_1RR_editnotice" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:ARBPIA 1RR editnotice">ARBPIA 1RR editnotice</a>}} template; again, this is different to other topics where only administrators can place a page under 1RR as a discretionary sanction. I hope this is reasonably clear but I realise it's complicated. It's the result of trying many different variations on this remedy and I doubt that a perfect solution is possible. I don't expect to be online much between now and Tuesday, but please do follow up with any questions you have and I'll try to look in and answer them. <a href="/wiki/User:GoldenRing" title="User:GoldenRing">GoldenRing</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoldenRing" title="User talk:GoldenRing">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-GoldenRing-2019-04-20T08:23:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-04-19T18:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:23, 20 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, but there is still an issue regarding my question at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoldenRing#Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles" title="User talk:GoldenRing">your talk</a> which mentions that the <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/887668566#Motion:_Palestine-Israel_articles" title="Special:PermanentLink/887668566">Arbcom motion</a> included a statement suggesting that anyone could place the template (although someone who is not an admin and not a template editor would have to put the template on article talk as they could not put it in the article's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Editnotice" title="Wikipedia:Editnotice">WP:Editnotice</a>). The problem is that the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#General_1RR_restriction" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles">ARBPIA Index</a> omits that statement from the motion. I believe the Index should be updated. <a href="/wiki/User:Johnuniq" title="User:Johnuniq">Johnuniq</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johnuniq" title="User talk:Johnuniq">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Johnuniq-2019-04-20T09:02:00.000Z-GoldenRing-2019-04-20T08:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:02, 20 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <dl><dd>Ok, thank you for your reply, <a href="/wiki/User:GoldenRing" title="User:GoldenRing">User:GoldenRing</a>. I have made some comment on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests">Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests</a>. Like Johnuniq, I am concerned about the lack of clarity about who can put what on talk pages. I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASolomon%27s_Pools&type=revision&diff=893074428&oldid=893073563">was reverted</a> after placing {{ARBPIA 1RR editnotice}}, and I <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3ASolomon%27s_Pools&type=revision&diff=893075868&oldid=893074993">was reverted</a> after placing a {{ARBPIA}} on an article, both because I am not an admin,</dd> <dd>I am also very concerned about the "upping" the level of bureaucracy, as simple violation of 1RR no longer can be handled on AE in the great majority of cases, but instead has to be taken to ARCA. More about that on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests">Wikipedia talk:Arbitration/Requests</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-20T20:53:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-04-19T18:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 20 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Modern_Kefar_Hananya" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Modern_Kefar_Hananya-2019-04-21T22:19:00.000Z">The Modern Kefar Hananya</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: The Modern Kefar Hananya">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a>, this is for your information: The modern moshav of <a href="/wiki/Kfar_Hananya" title="Kfar Hananya">Kfar Hananya</a>, built one kilometer to the south of the Old Kefar Hanania (now Kafr 'Inan) is, obviously, not the same site as the older, although it bears the same name. We find this all over the country: The new <a href="/wiki/Beitar_Illit" title="Beitar Illit">Beitar Illit</a>, named after the old <a href="/wiki/Betar_(fortress)" class="mw-redirect" title="Betar (fortress)">Betar</a> (now <a href="/wiki/Bittir" class="mw-redirect" title="Bittir">Bittir</a>) are two different sites.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-21T22:19:00.000Z-The_Modern_Kefar_Hananya" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:19, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>David you are missing the point. The Hebrew for <a href="/wiki/Kfar_Hananya" title="Kfar Hananya">Kfar Hananya</a> belongs in the article <a href="/wiki/Kfar_Hananya" title="Kfar Hananya">Kfar Hananya</a>. It does not belong wherever Kfar Hananya is mentioned. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2019-04-21T22:22:00.000Z-Davidbena-2019-04-21T22:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">User:Davidbena</a> They are both spelled the same way, no? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-21T22:23:00.000Z-Davidbena-2019-04-21T22:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:23, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Two identical spellings, but two different sites. The new name takes its name from the older name.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-21T22:40:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-21T22:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:40, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>So? As Nableezy said, we dont add the Arabic name for Hebron each time we link to <a href="/wiki/Hebron" title="Hebron">Hebron</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-21T22:44:00.000Z-Davidbena-2019-04-21T22:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:44, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Kafr 'Inan happens to be an older Jewish site. What's the problem, Huldra? You don't like ancient Jewish sites?<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-21T22:48:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-21T22:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:48, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Are you really making an accusation of racism for following the manual of style? <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">User:Doug Weller</a>, David seems to trust you. Is this sort of conduct acceptable? <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2019-04-21T22:49:00.000Z-Davidbena-2019-04-21T22:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Davidbena: I have a dislike for information which is "out of place": if someone had added a link to "<a href="/wiki/Hebron" title="Hebron">Hebron</a> (<a href="/wiki/Arabic_language" class="mw-redirect" title="Arabic language">Arabic</a>: الْخَلِيل)", I would have removed the Arabic. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-21T22:52:00.000Z-Davidbena-2019-04-21T22:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:52, 21 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Discussion_on_WP:DR" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion_on_WP:DR-2019-04-22T04:05:00.000Z">Discussion on WP:DR</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Discussion on WP:DR">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <s>There is a discussion <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Solomon's_Pools#%22Near_Modern_settlement%22">here</a> on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DR">WP:DR</a> to which you have been named as an involved person. Please check it out.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-22T04:05:00.000Z-Discussion_on_WP:DR" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:05, 22 April 2019 (UTC)</a></s>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Dispute_Resolution_Noticeboard" data-mw-thread-id="h-Dispute_Resolution_Noticeboard-2019-04-23T00:17:00.000Z">Dispute Resolution Noticeboard</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Dispute Resolution Noticeboard">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> a request to resolve an edit dispute has been filed <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Talk:Kafr_'Inan#Kfar_Hananya">here</a> with the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_Resolution_Noticeboard" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Dispute Resolution Noticeboard">WP:Dispute Resolution Noticeboard</a>. We welcome your comments.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-23T00:17:00.000Z-Dispute_Resolution_Noticeboard" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:17, 23 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Trying_to_make_amends" data-mw-thread-id="h-Trying_to_make_amends-2019-04-23T02:56:00.000Z">Trying to make amends</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: Trying to make amends">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Huldra, I wanted you to know that while we often disagree with each other on our edits, I am hopeful that one day we will learn to see eye-to-eye. Have you seen this video <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrJdpdMDqDM">One Step Closer to Peace Among Israel & Palestine</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2019-04-23T02:56:00.000Z-Trying_to_make_amends" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 23 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Two men, one Muslim and one Jew....well, not being male, not being a Muslim and not being a Jew: I am afraid I got bored after less than 30 seconds, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-23T20:59:00.000Z-Davidbena-2019-04-23T02:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:59, 23 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>This <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmlhUn8TvT0">[9]</a> may not be your type of humor, but it is something people of different faiths have sometimes agreed on. It's covered on WP:<a class="external autonumber" href="https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%B6garnas_fel">[10]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Gr%C3%A5bergs_Gr%C3%A5a_S%C3%A5ng" title="User:Gråbergs Gråa Sång">Gråbergs Gråa Sång</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gr%C3%A5bergs_Gr%C3%A5a_S%C3%A5ng" title="User talk:Gråbergs Gråa Sång">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Gråbergs_Gråa_Sång-2019-05-16T09:19:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-23T20:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:19, 16 May 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tunshuk_palace_article" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tunshuk_palace_article-2019-04-26T20:26:00.000Z">Tunshuk palace article</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Tunshuk palace article">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hey, I saw you've started to work on the Tunshuk palace article and found some great sources about it. Do you want to publish it any time soon? <a href="/wiki/User:Alaexis" title="User:Alaexis">Alaexis</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alaexis" title="User talk:Alaexis">¿question?</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Alaexis-2019-04-26T20:26:00.000Z-Tunshuk_palace_article" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 26 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Alaexis" title="User:Alaexis">User:Alaexis</a>, I plan to start an article on all the places mentioned in <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Mamluk_Jerusalem" title="User:Huldra/Mamluk Jerusalem">User:Huldra/Mamluk Jerusalem</a>, that is, all the places mentioned in Burgoyne (if they don't have an article already) ...but the work progress slowly, as I have concentrated on finding pictures on commons, and for that, I need to "know" all the different buildings. (Typically, people have just taken pictures of a place, and then uploaded it to commons, without knowing the name of the building.) Please feel free to add anything to any of my [[User:Huldra/something]] article stubs! Including, of course, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Tunshuk_Palace" title="User:Huldra/Tunshuk Palace">User:Huldra/Tunshuk Palace</a> (I would love to have some help....) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-26T20:35:00.000Z-Alaexis-2019-04-26T20:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:35, 26 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks! Just wanted to say that some of them already provide a lot of value and so would benefit from being published with people seeing them and trying to fill the blanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Alaexis" title="User:Alaexis">Alaexis</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Alaexis" title="User talk:Alaexis">¿question?</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Alaexis-2019-04-27T15:16:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-04-26T20:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:16, 27 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Alaexis" title="User:Alaexis">User:Alaexis</a>, I had hoped some of them (or many of them?) could be DYKs, they should be uncontroversial and interesting enough. Help to sorting the many pictures at commons would be greatly appreciated (or any other help, for that matter!), cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-04-27T20:16:00.000Z-Alaexis-2019-04-27T15:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:16, 27 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Dafna" data-mw-thread-id="h-Dafna-2019-04-30T04:37:00.000Z">Dafna</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=24" title="Edit section: Dafna">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, I just spent a couple of hours trying to sort out Dafna. Khirbet Dufnah is marked on the SWP map where <a href="/wiki/Al-Shawka_al-Tahta" title="Al-Shawka al-Tahta">Al-Shawka al-Tahta</a> was later, about 1km to the north of where the village of Dafna was later. So I need to change some of what you added. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-04-30T04:37:00.000Z-Dafna" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:37, 30 April 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I off course bow to your knowledge of maps! I see that on SWP 2 map the Kh. Dafnah was a bit further north than the Sanbaruyeh place, but I though it was a SWP 2 inaccuracy, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-05-01T20:22:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-04-30T04:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 1 May 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Everything else in that region on both PEF and British maps lines up very nicely, and Khirbet Dufnah sits right on top of Al-Shawka al-Tahta. I've ordered an archaeological report that will hopefully provide more information. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-05-02T03:08:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-05-01T20:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:08, 2 May 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, I've added Palmer to <a href="/wiki/Al-Shawka_al-Tahta" title="Al-Shawka al-Tahta">Al-Shawka al-Tahta</a>, I'm not quite sure if it should still be in <a href="/wiki/Dafna" title="Dafna">Dafna</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-05-02T22:19:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-05-02T03:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:19, 2 May 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Precious" data-mw-thread-id="h-Precious-2019-06-17T22:03:00.000Z">Precious</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=25" title="Edit section: Precious">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="margin:auto; max-width:60em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba( 192, 192, 192, 0.75 ); border-radius:1em; border:1px solid #a7d7f9; margin-bottom:1em; padding:0.5em 1em 1em; color:inherit;" class="ui-helper-clearfix"> <div> enjoy reading almost anything <div style="float:right; margin-left:1em; background-color:#ddd; color:inherit; border:5px solid #ddd; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0.75); border-radius:0.5em;"><a href="/wiki/File:Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/33px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg" decoding="async" width="33" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/50px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/66px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1490" data-file-height="1792"/></a></div> Thank you for quality articles such as <a href="/wiki/Emily_Ruete" title="Emily Ruete">Emily Ruete</a> (2005), <a href="/wiki/Khan_al-Tujjar_(Mount_Tabor)" title="Khan al-Tujjar (Mount Tabor)">Khan al-Tujjar (Mount Tabor)</a> (2009), <a href="/wiki/Sha%27ab,_Israel" title="Sha'ab, Israel">Sha'ab, Israel</a> (2011), for adding images and direct links, for hundreds of redirects, for "Thank you for your actions!" and "this user enjoys reading almost anything", - you are an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Quality_Article_Improvement/Precious" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious">awesome Wikipedian</a>! </div></div> --<a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">Gerda Arendt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gerda_Arendt" title="User talk:Gerda Arendt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Gerda_Arendt-2019-06-17T22:03:00.000Z-Precious" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:03, 17 June 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">User:Gerda Arendt</a>, thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-06-17T22:05:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2019-06-17T22:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:05, 17 June 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>A year ago, you were recipient no. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Quality_Article_Improvement/Precious#Huldra" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious">2227</a> of Precious, a prize of QAI! --<a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">Gerda Arendt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gerda_Arendt" title="User talk:Gerda Arendt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Gerda_Arendt-2020-06-17T08:12:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-06-17T22:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:12, 17 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg" data-mw-thread-id="h-Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg-2019-06-29T04:19:00.000Z">Orphaned non-free image File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=26" title="Edit section: Orphaned non-free image File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><img alt="⚠" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Ambox_warning_blue.svg/35px-Ambox_warning_blue.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Ambox_warning_blue.svg/53px-Ambox_warning_blue.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Ambox_warning_blue.svg/70px-Ambox_warning_blue.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="378" data-file-height="326"/><figcaption>⚠</figcaption></figure> Thanks for uploading <a href="/w/index.php?title=File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg (page does not exist)">File:Saud al-Qahtani.jpg</a>. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FU" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FU">claim of fair use</a>. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Policy" title="Wikipedia:Non-free content">our policy for non-free media</a>). Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#F5" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. Thank you. --<a href="/wiki/User:B-bot" title="User:B-bot">B-bot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:B-bot" title="User talk:B-bot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-B-bot-2019-06-29T04:19:00.000Z-Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Saud_al-Qahtani.jpg" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 29 June 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Disambiguation_link_notification_for_July_4" data-mw-thread-id="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_July_4-2019-07-04T13:56:00.000Z">Disambiguation link notification for July 4</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=27" title="Edit section: Disambiguation link notification for July 4">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. An automated process has detected that when you recently edited <a href="/wiki/Mohammed_bin_Rashid_Al_Maktoum" title="Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum">Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum</a>, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page <a href="/wiki/Frank_Gardner" class="mw-disambig" title="Frank Gardner">Frank Gardner</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dablinks.py/Mohammed_bin_Rashid_Al_Maktoum">check to confirm</a> | <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="//dispenser.info.tm/~dispenser/cgi-bin/dab_solver.py/Mohammed_bin_Rashid_Al_Maktoum?client=notify">fix with Dab solver</a>). Such links are <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INTDABLINK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INTDABLINK">usually incorrect</a>, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of unrelated topics with similar titles. 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Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">DPL bot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DPL_bot" title="User talk:DPL bot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-DPL_bot-2019-07-04T13:56:00.000Z-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_July_4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:56, 4 July 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)-2019-07-09T13:43:00.000Z"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)" title="Makova (Hasidic dynasty)">Makova (Hasidic dynasty)</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=28" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Makova (Hasidic dynasty)">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/48px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="48" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/72px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/96px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1224211176">.mw-parser-output .quotebox{background-color:#F9F9F9;border:1px solid #aaa;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px;font-size:88%;max-width:100%}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatleft{margin:.5em 1.4em .8em 0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatright{margin:.5em 0 .8em 1.4em}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.centered{overflow:hidden;position:relative;margin:.5em auto .8em auto}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatleft span,.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatright span{font-style:inherit}.mw-parser-output .quotebox>blockquote{margin:0;padding:0;border-left:0;font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-title{text-align:center;font-size:110%;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote:last-child>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote.quoted:before{font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:large;color:gray;content:" “ ";vertical-align:-45%;line-height:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote.quoted:after{font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:large;color:gray;content:" ” ";line-height:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .left-aligned{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .right-aligned{text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .center-aligned{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .quote-title,.mw-parser-output .quotebox .quotebox-quote{display:block}.mw-parser-output .quotebox cite{display:block;font-style:normal}@media screen and (max-width:640px){.mw-parser-output .quotebox{width:100%!important;margin:0 0 .8em!important;float:none!important}}</style><div class="quotebox pullquote floatright" style="width:20%; ;"> <blockquote class="quotebox-quote left-aligned" style=""> If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Your_first_article" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Your first article">the guide to writing your first article</a>.You may want to consider using the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard" title="Wikipedia:Article wizard">Article Wizard</a> to help you create articles. </blockquote> </div> Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)" title="Makova (Hasidic dynasty)">Makova (Hasidic dynasty)</a> requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#A1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Stub#Essential_information_about_stubs" title="Wikipedia:Stub">Wikipedia:Stub</a> for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability" title="Wikipedia:Notability">notable</a> subjects and should provide references to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">reliable sources</a> that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">verify</a> their content. If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by <a href="/wiki/Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)" title="Makova (Hasidic dynasty)">visiting the page</a> and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">Wikipedia's policies and guidelines</a>. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=delete&page=Makova+%28Hasidic+dynasty%29">deleting administrator</a>, or if you have already done so, you can place a request <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFUD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFUD">here</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Interstellarity" title="User:Interstellarity">Interstellarity</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Interstellarity" title="User talk:Interstellarity">T</a> 🌟 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Interstellarity-2019-07-09T13:43:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Makova_(Hasidic_dynasty)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:43, 9 July 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Troll/sock_on_bellingcat_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Troll/sock_on_bellingcat_discussion-2019-08-07T21:49:00.000Z">Troll/sock on bellingcat discussion</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=29" title="Edit section: Troll/sock on bellingcat discussion">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Huldra The IP attacking you on RSN is a sock of Sayerslle so I have removed the content. I didn't remove your response because it was written by you and you're an editor etc. I'm letting you know in case you want to remove it as the attack it was a repsonse to is deleted. <a href="/wiki/User:Cambial_Yellowing" title="User:Cambial Yellowing">Cambial Yellowing</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cambial_Yellowing" title="User talk:Cambial Yellowing">(❧)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Cambial_Yellowing-2019-08-07T21:49:00.000Z-Troll/sock_on_bellingcat_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:49, 7 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Hmm, never heard of him/her. Also <a href="/wiki/User:Cambial_Yellowing" title="User:Cambial Yellowing">User:Cambial Yellowing</a>: In cases where socks have already been answered too, it is possibly better to strike the comment? <s>Like this</s>, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-08-07T21:54:00.000Z-Cambial_Yellowing-2019-08-07T21:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 7 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Fair, duly noted. <a href="/wiki/User:Cambial_Yellowing" title="User:Cambial Yellowing">Cambial Yellowing</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cambial_Yellowing" title="User talk:Cambial Yellowing">(❧)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Cambial_Yellowing-2019-08-07T22:10:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-08-07T21:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:10, 7 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Suggestion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Suggestion-2019-08-16T22:43:00.000Z">Suggestion</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=30" title="Edit section: Suggestion">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Probably best to ping other CUs to your talk page instead of Bbb23’s. —<a href="/wiki/User:Floquenbeam" title="User:Floquenbeam">Floquenbeam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Floquenbeam" title="User talk:Floquenbeam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Floquenbeam-2019-08-16T22:43:00.000Z-Suggestion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:43, 16 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, ok @<a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a>:, @<a href="/wiki/User:PhilKnight" title="User:PhilKnight">PhilKnight</a>:, @<a href="/wiki/User:Zzuuzz" title="User:Zzuuzz">Zzuuzz</a>: @<a href="/wiki/User:Reaper_Eternal" title="User:Reaper Eternal">Reaper Eternal</a>: please, could any one of you make a second opinion on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Gilabrand" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Gilabrand">Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Gilabrand‎</a>? I was pretty sure that is was a sock, I could send you further diffs if needed, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-08-16T22:53:00.000Z-Floquenbeam-2019-08-16T22:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:53, 16 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sorry, I'm being pretty useless, real life and other distractions keep getting in the way. I think this one is a bit beyond me. --<a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2019-08-19T15:42:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-08-16T22:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:42, 19 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">User:Doug Weller</a>: Understood, (we are all volunteers...;P ) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-08-19T20:19:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2019-08-19T15:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:19, 19 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Rough_Guide" data-mw-thread-id="h-Rough_Guide-2019-08-21T07:26:00.000Z">Rough Guide</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=31" title="Edit section: Rough Guide">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I think that Rough Guides, and all other travel guides not written by professional historians/archaeologists, are not reliable for history and should be removed. Thanks for removing that one. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-08-21T07:26:00.000Z-Rough_Guide" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:26, 21 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">User:Zero0000</a>, well, with <a href="/wiki/Mar_Elias_Monastery" title="Mar Elias Monastery">Mar Elias Monastery</a> it was pretty obvious: the earliest person Pringle mentions in connection with it, is <a href="/wiki/Manuel_I_Komnenos" title="Manuel I Komnenos">Manuel I Komnenos</a>. And "Bible walks" (who are mostly quite accurate on historical facts) doesn't mention it, either. I don't know the Rough Guides well enough to pass judgement generally; there might also have been a mixup by a Wikipedia editor. (Did the RG actually say that, about the Mar Elias Monastery, or about some other place? I have no idea.) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-08-21T21:10:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-08-21T07:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 21 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine-2019-08-27T00:18:00.000Z"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine" title="Category:Nature reserves in Palestine">Category:Nature reserves in Palestine</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=32" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Nature reserves in Palestine">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/72px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/15/Ambox_warning_pn.svg/96px-Ambox_warning_pn.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="445"/><figcaption></figcaption></figure> A tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine" title="Category:Nature reserves in Palestine">Category:Nature reserves in Palestine</a> requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#C1" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section C1 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>, because the category has been empty for seven days or more and is not a <a href="/wiki/Category:Disambiguation_categories" title="Category:Disambiguation categories">disambiguation category</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_soft_redirected_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia soft redirected categories">category redirect</a>, a <a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_featured_topics_categories" title="Category:Wikipedia featured topics categories">featured topics category</a>, under discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Categories for discussion">Categories for discussion</a>, or a project category that by its nature may become empty on occasion. If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by <a href="/wiki/Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine" title="Category:Nature reserves in Palestine">visiting the page</a> and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">Wikipedia's policies and guidelines</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz">Liz</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz">Read!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz">Talk!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Liz-2019-08-27T00:18:00.000Z-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Category:Nature_reserves_in_Palestine" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:18, 27 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Fourteen_years_of_editing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Fourteen_years_of_editing-2019-08-31T17:48:00.000Z">Fourteen years of editing</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=33" title="Edit section: Fourteen years of editing">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table class="messagebox standard-talk" style="border: 2px dashed #FF0000; background-color: gold;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="text-align:center;"><a href="/wiki/File:Balloons-aj.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/50px-Balloons-aj.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="55" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/75px-Balloons-aj.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/100px-Balloons-aj.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1100" data-file-height="1200"/></a> </td> <td style="text-align:center;" width="100%">Hey, Huldra. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Birthday_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Birthday Committee">Wikipedia Birthday Committee</a>! Have a great day! <a href="/wiki/User:Chris_troutman" title="User:Chris troutman">Chris Troutman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chris_troutman" title="User talk:Chris troutman">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Chris_troutman-2019-08-31T17:48:00.000Z-Fourteen_years_of_editing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:48, 31 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td> <td style="text-align:right;"><a href="/wiki/File:Face-smile.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/55px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="55" height="55" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/83px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/110px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a> </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-08-31T20:27:00.000Z-Fourteen_years_of_editing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:27, 31 August 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Al_Ma'in?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Al_Ma'in?-2019-09-05T20:17:00.000Z">Al Ma'in?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=34" title="Edit section: Al Ma'in?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://mondoweiss.net/2019/09/denial-israeli-kibbutz/">re</a> <a href="/wiki/Nirim" title="Nirim">Nirim</a>, <a href="/wiki/Nir_Oz" title="Nir Oz">Nir Oz</a>, <a href="/wiki/Magen" class="mw-disambig" title="Magen">Magen</a> and <a href="/wiki/Ein_Hashloshla" class="mw-redirect" title="Ein Hashloshla">Ein Hashloshla</a>. What does <a href="/w/index.php?title=Al-Main&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Al-Main (page does not exist)">Al-Main</a> village refer to? Is this eye-witness report useful to any Palestinian village there?<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-09-05T20:17:00.000Z-Al_Ma'in?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 5 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a>: Khirbet el Ma'in was at 0931/0821, 1 km SE of Nirim. But is there an article? I'm an Earth's diameter away from my Khalidi. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-09-05T21:11:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-09-05T20:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a>: @<a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero0000</a>: It is not in Khalidi, Khalidi is generally lacking wrt the <a href="/wiki/Beersheba_Subdistrict,_Mandatory_Palestine" title="Beersheba Subdistrict, Mandatory Palestine">Beersheba Subdistrict</a>: only <a href="/wiki/Al-Imara" title="Al-Imara">Al-Imara</a>, <a href="/wiki/Al-Jammama" title="Al-Jammama">al-Jammama</a> and <a href="/wiki/Al-Khalasa" title="Al-Khalasa">Al-Khalasa</a> are mentioned. <a href="/wiki/Auja_al-Hafir" title="Auja al-Hafir">Auja al-Hafir</a> is not mentioned in Khalidi, neither is <a href="/w/index.php?title=Khirbet_el_Ma%27in&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Khirbet el Ma'in (page does not exist)">Khirbet el Ma'in</a>/Harabat Abu Sitta. It is to the west of Wadi Gaza on SWP map 23 (only called "Arab et Terabin"), and that part is not covered by SWP. In the 1931 census, under "Tarabin" in the Beersheva section (p. 7), "Ghawali Abu Sitta" has 606 Muslim inhabitants. <a href="/wiki/Salman_Abu_Sitta" title="Salman Abu Sitta">Salman Abu Sitta</a> has written about his home before, perhaps it is time we start an article about <a href="/w/index.php?title=Khirbet_el_Ma%27in&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Khirbet el Ma'in (page does not exist)">Khirbet el Ma'in</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-09-05T21:51:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-09-05T21:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:51, 5 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Abu Sitta is an interested party, but apparently there is some coverage of the village in the links (Hebrew and Spanish) at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.de-colonizer.org/exhibit-al-ma-in?fbclid=IwAR1D-DEwMvTsfZocHVJ6p5uTw3XO-kxUfmY3ccJhC_Q85lwAtry2yGVSqmU">de Colonizer</a>. I certainly think it deserves an article, but this note is intended only to put down a marker for it, so that one can keep an eye out for more substantial texts. There is much to be clarified khirbet/village (the RAF 1945 photo is nsaid to, legitimately or not, mark out something like the latter. <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-09-06T12:28:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-09-05T21:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:28, 6 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_I-P_conflict" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_I-P_conflict-2019-09-09T11:15:00.000Z">The I-P conflict</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=35" title="Edit section: The I-P conflict">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I'm hoping a new case will bring a sensible resolution so we can deal with editors at articles which aren't mainly about the conflict, but as I learned to my regret, at the moment we can't. It's a shame that ArbCom is so small now, not just because of the delay before the new case but few opinions. <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2019-09-09T11:15:00.000Z-The_I-P_conflict" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:15, 9 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">User:Doug Weller</a>: Well, I haven't really thought much about the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4</a>...but in my experience, "common sense" does NOT work in the IP area. What is needed is very clear, hard rules. I could imagine, however, that the protection only worked for a part of the article. That would have to come with a new feature: that you can only "watch" a part of an article. An example: I "watch" <a href="/wiki/Heredia,_Costa_Rica" title="Heredia, Costa Rica">Heredia, Costa Rica</a>, because some jokers like to do edits like the one I am <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Heredia%2C_Costa_Rica&type=revision&diff=914206990&oldid=914202459">undoing here</a>. Of course I have to "watch" the whole article, even though 95-99% of it is of absolutely no interest to me. It would be lovely if I could "watch" only the "Sister cities" paragraph, and that the same paragraph had some protection. But no: it is all or none. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-09-09T21:37:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2019-09-09T11:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 9 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="I_am_not_an_ambassador_of_Israel" data-mw-thread-id="h-I_am_not_an_ambassador_of_Israel-2019-09-13T22:24:00.000Z">I am not an ambassador of Israel</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=36" title="Edit section: I am not an ambassador of Israel">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> So please stop seeing my edits as though they are part of Israel's official foreign policy. Not all citizens of Israel share Israel's official views, and anyway, as an Israeli, I really have no idea what exactly "Israeli view" means since our foreign policy is so vague. With that said, I do feel a bit entitled to say that the State of Palestine article is mostly bullshit and I use my feet, standing on the State of Palestine and my eyes observing it, as a primary source. I've been in Palestine for 2 years now and I've yet to actually see it. Yes there are some signs popping out saying "State of Palestine" or "دولة فلسطين", but when speaking with Palestinians, they mostly refer to the سلطة, i.e the PA. Their I.D.s also say "Palestinian Authority". It is not the same situation as with the Arab states who refuse to recognize Israel, because they still know Israel exists. Here in the West Bank, the idea of a "State of Palestine" is not acknowledged by anyone. They know that they are the شعب الفلسطيني and that they live in فلسطين, but فلسطين doesn't refer to any state within the Palestinian territories, but to the whole former territory of the British Mandate. The "State of Palestine" is an abstract term, used by Palestinians mostly in foreign policy. It is a shame that Wikipedia mislead so many readers on that issue. If those who created this article cannot come up with a less vague article, which contradicts other articles and it self and is not really backed by any sources, full of SYNTH and OR, maybe the "Israel's view" guy should do it, and I don't edit without any sources.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2019-09-13T22:24:00.000Z-I_am_not_an_ambassador_of_Israel" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:24, 13 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hmmm, so you are basically saying that "I, as soldier in the Israeli army, serving on the West Bank, have yet to actually see the State of Palestine." Sorry for being formalistic here, but besides the OR, I hardly think you count as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> (at least not presently! One day, maybe...)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Anyway: this discussion belongs 100% on <a href="/wiki/Talk:State_of_Palestine" title="Talk:State of Palestine">Talk:State of Palestine</a>, and NOT here: see you there, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-09-13T22:33:00.000Z-Bolter21-2019-09-13T22:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 13 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You are right. If it was the article's talk page I would have been more professional. But this was an emotional personal comment, as I don't think I have any interest in re-approach this article again any time soon. Seems like even if I tried to make my edits look less aggressive, they would have been reverted all the same and dragged to a talk discussion that will last unil 2025 when one of us will retire from Wikipedia. Take care.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2019-09-13T22:39:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-09-13T22:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:39, 13 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>2025? You are far, far too optimistic: that is only 6 years away (and I have already been here 14 years): I have exactly 0% belief that the issues will have been resolved in 6 years time. (Actually, I have long since lost any hope that the issues will be resolved in my life time: I read one interview with a settler spokesperson in Haaretz: she was settling in for 500 years. (Hmmm, will the US continue to pay billions of $$ (or ~20% of the Israeli budget) to Israel for the next 500 years? Every year? That settler spokesperson seem to think so! Ah well, in 500 year we will both be "permanently retired", that's for sure!) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-09-13T23:42:00.000Z-Bolter21-2019-09-13T22:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:42, 13 September 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Palestine-Israel_articles_4_arbitration_case_commencing" data-mw-thread-id="h-Palestine-Israel_articles_4_arbitration_case_commencing-2019-10-05T04:09:00.000Z">Palestine-Israel articles 4 arbitration case commencing</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=37" title="Edit section: Palestine-Israel articles 4 arbitration case commencing">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> In August 2019, the Arbitration Committee resolved to open the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4">Palestine-Israel articles 4</a> arbitration case as a suspended case due to workload considerations. The Committee is now un-suspending and commencing the case. <ul><li>The primary scope of the case is: Evaluating the clarity and effectiveness of current remedies in the ARBPIA area. More information can be found <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/header" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/header">here</a>.</li> <li>Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/Evidence" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Evidence">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Evidence</a>. The evidence phase will be open until 18 October 2019 (subject to change).</li> <li>You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/Workshop" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Workshop">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Workshop</a>. The workshop phase will be open until 25 October 2019 (subject to change).</li> <li>For a guide to the arbitration process, see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide_to_arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration</a>.</li> <li>If you do not wish to receive case updates, please remove your name from the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/Notification_list" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Notification list">notification list</a>.</li></ul> For the Arbitration Committee, <a href="/wiki/User:L235" title="User:L235">Kevin</a> (aka <a href="/wiki/User:L235" title="User:L235">L235</a> · <a href="/wiki/User_talk:L235#top" title="User talk:L235">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/L235" title="Special:Contributions/L235">c</a>) via <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2019-10-05T04:09:00.000Z-Palestine-Israel_articles_4_arbitration_case_commencing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:09, 5 October 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_extended" data-mw-thread-id="h-Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_extended-2019-10-25T07:40:00.000Z">Palestine-Israel articles 4: workshop extended</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=38" title="Edit section: Palestine-Israel articles 4: workshop extended">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/Workshop" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Workshop">workshop phase</a> of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4">Palestine-Israel articles 4</a> arbitration case will be extended to November 1, 2019. All interested editors are invited to submit comments and workshop proposals regarding and arising from the clarity and effectiveness of current remedies in the ARBPIA area. To unsubscribe from future case updates, please remove your name from the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/Notification_list" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Notification list">notification list</a>. For the Arbitration Committee, <a href="/wiki/User:L235" title="User:L235">Kevin</a> (aka <a href="/wiki/User:L235" title="User:L235">L235</a> · <a href="/wiki/User_talk:L235#top" title="User talk:L235">t</a> · <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/L235" title="Special:Contributions/L235">c</a>) via <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2019-10-25T07:40:00.000Z-Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_extended" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:40, 25 October 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Inquiry" data-mw-thread-id="h-Inquiry-2019-10-28T22:25:00.000Z">Inquiry</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=39" title="Edit section: Inquiry">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Why did you remove the settlement type "Village" in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Lifta&diff=923491974&oldid=907578860">this edit</a>? And, additionally, why didn't you mention that in the edit summary? <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2019-10-28T22:25:00.000Z-Inquiry" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:25, 28 October 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>As I usually do many things during one edit, I cannot mention them all in the edit summary (I could of course say "ce", ..but "some" editors don't like that..) Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-10-28T22:29:00.000Z-Debresser-2019-10-28T22:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:29, 28 October 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That I can understand. And what about my first question? <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2019-10-29T18:12:00.000Z-Huldra-2019-10-28T22:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:12, 29 October 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_survey_to_improve_the_community_consultation_outreach_process" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_survey_to_improve_the_community_consultation_outreach_process-2019-11-13T10:44:00.000Z">A survey to improve the community consultation outreach process</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=40" title="Edit section: A survey to improve the community consultation outreach process">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello! The Wikimedia Foundation is seeking to improve the community consultation outreach process for Foundation policies, and we are interested in why you didn't participate <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Office_actions/Community_consultation_on_partial_and_temporary_office_actions/09_2019" class="extiw" title="m:Office actions/Community consultation on partial and temporary office actions/09 2019">in a recent consultation</a> that followed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FRAM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FRAM">a community discussion</a> you’ve been part of. Please fill out <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfWWUofC6-DmmNK0s7TBRd522YujyKWbixJflILnZQ6UYgveQ/viewform">this short survey</a> to help us improve our community consultation process for the future. It should only take about three minutes. The privacy policy for this survey is <a class="external text" href="https://foundation.wikimedia.org/wiki/Participation_in_Partial/Temporary_Office_Actions_consultation_2019">here</a>. This survey is a one-off request from us related to this unique topic. Thank you for your participation, <a href="/wiki/User:Kbrown_(WMF)" title="User:Kbrown (WMF)">Kbrown (WMF)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Kbrown_(WMF)-2019-11-13T10:44:00.000Z-A_survey_to_improve_the_community_consultation_outreach_process" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:44, 13 November 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="al-Tira,_Haifa" data-mw-thread-id="h-al-Tira,_Haifa-2019-11-14T17:27:00.000Z">al-Tira, Haifa</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=41" title="Edit section: al-Tira, Haifa">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Dear Huldra, I hesitate to reverse your removal of the Palestine Exploration map of al-Tira without explanation. I am certain that it should stay. It is not labelled but the line on the left marks the sea. Kh. el Kiniseh & El ‘Arak appear on the 1:20,000 map as Maradel Kneise & Farsh(?) el ‘Iraq. Also the older map has W el Ain & you can just make out W el Ein on the other. As you may have noticed I do like maps. <a href="/wiki/User:Padres_Hana" title="User:Padres Hana">Padres Hana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Padres_Hana" title="User talk:Padres Hana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Padres_Hana-2019-11-14T17:27:00.000Z-al-Tira,_Haifa" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:27, 14 November 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Padres_Hana" title="User:Padres Hana">User:Padres Hana</a>: you are absolutely right, and I have undone my removal. I was fooled by the category "taken from SWP map 11"...it is actually taken from SWP map 5, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-11-14T20:46:00.000Z-Padres_Hana-2019-11-14T17:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:46, 14 November 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2019_election_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2019_election_voter_message-2019-11-19T00:05:00.000Z">ArbCom 2019 election voter message</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=42" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2019 election voter message">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table class="messagebox" style="border: 1px solid #AAA; background: ivory; padding: 0.5em; width: 100%;"> <tbody><tr><td style="vertical-align:middle; padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></td><td>Hello! Voting in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2019" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2019">2019 Arbitration Committee elections</a> is now open until 23:59 on Monday, 2 December 2019. All <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2019#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2019">eligible users</a> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. 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If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2019-11-19T00:05:00.000Z-ArbCom_2019_election_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 19 November 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td></tr> </tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_reopened" data-mw-thread-id="h-Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_reopened-2019-12-06T22:45:00.000Z">Palestine-Israel articles 4: workshop reopened</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=43" title="Edit section: Palestine-Israel articles 4: workshop reopened">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Because of the nature of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4">Palestine-Israel articles 4</a> arbitration case and the importance of the exact wording of remedies, the Arbitration Committee would like to invite public comment and workshopping on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/Proposed_decision" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Proposed decision">proposed decision, which will be posted soon</a>. Accordingly, the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/Workshop" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Workshop">workshop</a> in this case is re-opened and will remain open until Friday, December 13. To opt out of further announcements, please remove yourself from the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_4/Notification_list" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4/Notification list">notification list</a>. For the Arbitration Committee, <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2019-12-06T22:45:00.000Z-Palestine-Israel_articles_4:_workshop_reopened" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 6 December 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Need_your_help_for_Guérin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Need_your_help_for_Guérin-2019-12-07T11:30:00.000Z">Need your help for Guérin</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=44" title="Edit section: Need your help for Guérin">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> In a Hebrew book, it cites Guérin but I can't find the original source. The site is called in Hebrew Horvat Kur but Guérin probably called it Khirbet Kuk or Khirbet Kok. The name of the source is in Hebrew and it is translated to "Description of Palestine 6, p. 151". I believed it was just one of the Galilee volumes but I didn't find it there. If you need another reference, the cite appears in the Mandate's maps west of Capernahum as "Kh. al-Kur" and I believe it is 199/254 on the grid.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2019-12-07T11:30:00.000Z-Need_your_help_for_Guérin" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:30, 7 December 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a>: Kharbet Kefr Kouk, Gal I, p.223. Verified by comparing with pef map. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2019-12-07T12:39:00.000Z-Bolter21-2019-12-07T11:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:39, 7 December 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The French text referred to by Zero is this, Stav, just to save you time searching for it.</dd> <dd><blockquote>A cinq heures trente minutes, je parviens sur un plateau fertile. A cinq heures quarante-cinq minutes, une montée continue, mais qui devient de plus en plus douce, me conduit è des ruines qui me sont désignées sous le nom de Kharbet Kefr Kouk. Les arasements de nombreuses petites maisons sont reconnaissables. Au milieu des dèbris confus de ces habitations démolies, à travers lesquelles la charrue a souvent passé, j’aperçois deux fûts mutilés de colonnes de basalte: ils proviennent probablement d’un édifice tourné de l’ouest à l’est, dont il subsiste près de là de faibles vestiges, et qui, à cause de son orientation, me paraît avoir été une ancienne église chrétienne. Des cisternes creusées dans le roc sont éparses sur beaucoup de points. Un birkeh, au fond duquel divers arbres, entre autres plusiers figuiers, ont pris racine, a dût être dans le principe une carrière, transformée plus tard en un réservoir d’eau.</blockquote></dd> <dd>Cheers,<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2019-12-07T13:34:00.000Z-Zero0000-2019-12-07T12:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:34, 7 December 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>As the other here has said: "Kharbet Kefr Kouk"; 1880, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://archive.org/stream/descriptiongogr01unkngoog#page/n236/mode/1up">223</a>. I have added it to <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Guerin#1880_Galilee_1" title="User:Huldra/Guerin">User:Huldra/Guerin#1880_Galilee_1</a>. Is it a place that there will be an article about? (If so, I need to link it in my Guerin page,) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-12-07T20:14:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-12-07T13:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:14, 7 December 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>It is "Horbat Kur" in IAA (search in <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/search_eng.aspx">http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/search_eng.aspx</a>)</dd> <dd>Kh. el Kûr (Sh. 6, Pf), I, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp01conduoft#page/403/mode/1up">403</a>.</dd> <dd>Palmer Kh. el Kûr, the ruin of the forge (Sh. 6, Qg), p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp00conduoft#page/129/mode/1up">129</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-12-07T21:17:00.000Z-Nishidani-2019-12-07T13:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:17, 7 December 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Hey Hudlra. Might you have access to the book "Géographie de La Palestine" by Félix-Marie Abel?--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2020-02-06T10:09:00.000Z-Need_your_help_for_Guérin" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:09, 6 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a>: I have Vol 2, which is a list of localities. I can copy-paste what it has on a particular place if you like. It is rather dated. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-02-06T10:51:00.000Z-Bolter21-2020-02-06T10:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:51, 6 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">User:Bolter21</a>, sorry, I don't have access to any of <a href="/wiki/F%C3%A9lix-Marie_Abel" title="Félix-Marie Abel">Félix-Marie Abel</a>'s books (except those which are at archive.org, off course). If any have any access to them: feel free to email me ;), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-02-06T20:06:00.000Z-Bolter21-2020-02-06T10:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:06, 6 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Philip_King_(historian)-day_of_death" data-mw-thread-id="h-Philip_King_(historian)-day_of_death-2019-12-22T13:59:00.000Z">Philip King (historian)-day of death</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=45" title="Edit section: Philip King (historian)-day of death">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi-I saw your comment on the <a href="/wiki/Philip_King_(historian)" title="Philip King (historian)">Philip King (historian)</a> talk page. The funeral home that Father Philip King was buried from had the day of his death as being December 7, 2019. You may want to look at the article's talk page and read the obituary from the funeral home. I am hot sure what changes should be made concerning the day of death. The December 7, 2019 day of death is probably the correct day of his death since the funeral home published the obituary. Many thanks-<a href="/wiki/User:RFD" title="User:RFD">RFD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RFD" title="User talk:RFD">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-RFD-2019-12-22T13:59:00.000Z-Philip_King_(historian)-day_of_death" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:59, 22 December 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you, I will answer on <a href="/wiki/Talk:Philip_King_(historian)" title="Talk:Philip King (historian)">Talk:Philip King (historian)</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2019-12-22T21:17:00.000Z-RFD-2019-12-22T13:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:17, 22 December 2019 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""expropriation"_vs._"confiscation"" data-mw-thread-id="h-"expropriation"_vs._"confiscation"-2020-02-22T21:37:00.000Z">"expropriation" vs. "confiscation"</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=46" title="Edit section: "expropriation" vs. "confiscation"">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> first off, if this is the wrong place to post, I apologize. I am not much into computers and coding, the only reason I am able to part of the wikipedia community is because of the visual editor. secondly, i would like to reply to your post on page regarding the differences between the terms expropriation and confiscation. according to google "confiscate" means the action of taking or seizing someone's property with authority; seizure. "a court ordered the confiscation of her property" "expropriation" means the action by the state or an authority of taking property from its owner for public use or benefit. "the decree provided for the expropriation of church land and buildings" by using "confiscation" instead on "expropriation" is a bias that denies Israel its legitimacy as a state Also you quoted quora.com in your post on my page. quora.com is just people who respond to question online; the problem with quora is the same problem that exist with wikipedia: there are no qualifications necessary to reply to a question. the definition I found online did not mention anything regarding what the quora page mentioned notably no mention of "Expropriation can be done with the owner’s consent and/or with compensation paid. Confiscation usually implies without the owner’s consent and without compensation." Thank you, and I look forward to continuing to helping the wikipedia community create fair and balanced articles. Also, I just realized that the wikipedia page reads "<a href="/wiki/Land_expropriation_in_the_West_Bank" title="Land expropriation in the West Bank">land expropriation in the West Bank</a>"; in the interests of keeping wikipedia accurately self-referential, it seems to me that we should keep using the same terminology. <dl><dd>Well, first, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">User:Zarcademan123456</a>, please signs your posts using ~~~~</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Secondly thank you for this, (when you again changed confiscated -->expropriated at <a href="/wiki/Beit_Ummar" title="Beit Ummar">Beit Ummar</a>) with the edit-line:</dd></dl> <dl><dd>"according to google "confiscate" means the action of taking or seizing someone's property with authority; seizure. "a court ordered the confiscation of her property" "expropriation" means the action by the state or an authority of taking property from its owner for public use or benefit. "the decree provided for the expropriation of church land and buildings" by using "confiscation" instead on "expropriation" is a bias that denies Israel its legitimacy as a state."</dd></dl> <dl><dd>I agree about the problems about using quora, or google for that matter, but the crux of the matter is that the source use "confiscated". (I hope we both agree that the source (<a href="/wiki/ARIJ" class="mw-redirect" title="ARIJ">ARIJ</a>) use the word "confiscated"??</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Needless to say, I will take you to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AE">WP:AE</a> unless you undo your last edit at <a href="/wiki/Beit_Ummar" title="Beit Ummar">Beit Ummar</a>, and/or continue to change confiscated -->expropriated, without any source for the word "expropriated". <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-02-22T21:37:00.000Z-"expropriation"_vs._"confiscation"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>~~~~ ok, i will go back and change the page, i will include a source that uses expropriated, but it will be more clunky i am afraid. Also, a better source than a Palestinian NGO [ARIJ] is needed. ALthough i do concede the difficulty of finding unbiased reporting on the situation.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Also, I just realized that the wikipedia page reads "<a href="/wiki/Land_expropriation_in_the_West_Bank" title="Land expropriation in the West Bank">land expropriation in the West Bank</a>"; in the interests of keeping wikipedia accurately self-referential, it seems to me that we should keep using the same terminology. lol, again sorry for probably not replying in the right place or anything, i am just trying to keep the terminology accurate</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">User:Zarcademan123456</a> ....please sign your posts with only the 4 "~" ...and not with the whole <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></dd> <dd>Also, if you want to use "expropriated" at say, <a href="/wiki/Beit_Ummar" title="Beit Ummar">Beit Ummar</a>, you must find a source which mention Beit Ummar, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-02-22T22:10:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-02-22T21:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:10, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-02-22T22:15:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-02-22T22:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</a>like this?[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>also, i dont understand how u said that the source did not "mention" beit ummar.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-02-22T22:15:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-02-22T22:10:00.000Z-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>figured out how to "sign my post, thankyou!!<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-02-22T22:17:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-02-22T22:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:17, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">User:Zarcademan123456</a> great, now the next thing to learn is how to intend your posts....either using a ":" or a "*"</dd> <dd>I am not sure what you don't understand: to repeat: if you want to say, eg in the <a href="/wiki/Beit_Ummar" title="Beit Ummar">Beit Ummar</a> article, that Israel has expropriated land from Beit Ummar...then you must find a source which says so, ie which explicitly mention Beit Ummar. (Yeah: the rules are strict in the <a href="/wiki/Israel" title="Israel">I</a>/<a href="/wiki/Palestine" class="mw-redirect" title="Palestine">P</a> area..but they are the same for all of us!) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-02-22T22:36:00.000Z-Zarcademan123456-2020-02-22T22:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:36, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>PS: Using wikipedia as a reference is not allowed!! Ie, edits like <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beit_Ummar&diff=prev&oldid=942146836">this</a> counts for nothing.... <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-02-22T22:38:00.000Z-Zarcademan123456-2020-02-22T22:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:38, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> using wikipedia as a source counts for nothing!! but it is supposed to be self-referential!!<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-02-22T22:49:00.000Z-"expropriation"_vs._"confiscation"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 22 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a>: Following the source is more important on Wikipedia than being consistent. One of the strange things about Wikipedia is that we have to be inconsistent sometimes because sources are inconsistent. As an aside (though this is not an argument for Wikipedia usage), the <a href="/wiki/Hague_Conventions_of_1899_and_1907" title="Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907">Hague Convention of 1907</a>, which Israel claims to follow in the West Bank, uses "confiscated" (Article 46). <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-02-23T01:56:00.000Z-Zarcademan123456-2020-02-22T22:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:56, 23 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Thanks" data-mw-thread-id="h-Thanks-2020-02-26T11:03:00.000Z">Thanks</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=47" title="Edit section: Thanks">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> For wikilinking so many articles to <a href="/wiki/PEF_Survey_of_Palestine" title="PEF Survey of Palestine">PEF Survey of Palestine</a>. I just took the liberty of replicating the same change across another c.500 similar articles using <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:JWB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:JWB">WP:JWB</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">Onceinawhile</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Onceinawhile" title="User talk:Onceinawhile">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Onceinawhile-2020-02-26T11:03:00.000Z-Thanks" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:03, 26 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">User:Onceinawhile</a>: Whaw! Good job! I should learn to use those tools (one day..), but I am afraid I would get in "finger-trouble". I have managed to mess up the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TW" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TW">WP:TW</a> a few times, already...<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-02-26T22:29:00.000Z-Onceinawhile-2020-02-26T11:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:29, 26 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">User:Onceinawhile</a>: searching for "Palestine Exploration Fund's Survey of Western Palestine" I got 265 hits, mostly in Lebanon etc, but also quite a few in Israel/Palestine. Feel like using your fabulous <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:JWB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:JWB">WP:JWB</a> -tool a bit more? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-16T23:02:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-02-26T22:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:02, 16 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I managed to find and fix 70 of them just now. The JWB tool works by choosing articles within specific categories; the skill is in finding the right categories to work through. <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">Onceinawhile</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Onceinawhile" title="User talk:Onceinawhile">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Onceinawhile-2020-03-16T23:20:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-03-16T23:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:20, 16 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Found another 12. <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">Onceinawhile</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Onceinawhile" title="User talk:Onceinawhile">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Onceinawhile-2020-03-16T23:29:00.000Z-Onceinawhile-2020-03-16T23:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:29, 16 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">User:Onceinawhile</a>: Ok, great, but I think we can shorten <a href="/wiki/Palestine_Exploration_Fund" title="Palestine Exploration Fund">Palestine Exploration Fund</a> to <a href="/wiki/Palestine_Exploration_Fund" title="Palestine Exploration Fund">PEF</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-16T23:31:00.000Z-Onceinawhile-2020-03-16T23:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:31, 16 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You are a hard task master :-)</dd> <dd>I have fixed this. <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">Onceinawhile</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Onceinawhile" title="User talk:Onceinawhile">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Onceinawhile-2020-03-16T23:59:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-03-16T23:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:59, 16 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The are still about 100 unfixed; unfortunately the JWB tool doesn’t pick them up in the various searches I have done. <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">Onceinawhile</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Onceinawhile" title="User talk:Onceinawhile">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Onceinawhile-2020-03-17T11:44:00.000Z-Onceinawhile-2020-03-16T23:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:44, 17 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">User:Onceinawhile</a>: Yeah, I know: I'm picky... :-). Anyway: thanks for the formidable job you did...I'll try to take the few remaining by-and-by, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-17T20:39:00.000Z-Onceinawhile-2020-03-17T11:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:39, 17 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="About_SWEDHR" data-mw-thread-id="h-About_SWEDHR-2020-02-26T16:38:00.000Z">About SWEDHR</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=48" title="Edit section: About SWEDHR">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Dear Hudra, if I may. Short version: I am a Swe doctor and relatively new in WP. While creating the article “Swedish Medical Association” I found the SWEDHR article. I got a shock! Almost all statements in the article are plain falsehood or deceiving. Most sources cited as references do NOT support the statement in the article, etcetera. Seriously, the article merits as an excellent example of what a WP should not be (Not neutral point of view, no verifiability). I have tried to do some repair work, but my correcting edits end permanently reverted WITHOUT discussion by two users. I saw in the edit-history that you were long time ago trying to correct things too, and perhaps you can advise me if there is any way for me to continue this. Or if any effort would be futile. In that case I would devote my WP time to other issues. What is in the article now blunt contradicts the respect that that organization has earned in Sweden and in our medical community. BTW, the Swedhr professors had an article published today in the largest Swe newspaper (Aftonbladet), and last week in The Lancet, about the Assange case. If you could spare some five minutes please take a glance to this more detailed version with the rationale the essential corrections needed, here <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Swedish_Doctors_for_Human_Rights#Necessary_edits">[11]</a>, and here <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Protection_solicited_after_repeated_vandalism_/_disruptive_editing_from_Gamesmasterg9">[12]</a>. Many thanks in case you reply, and if not, forgive me for taking your time. My user name is Toverster and I have a Talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-02-26T16:38:00.000Z-About_SWEDHR" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:38, 26 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">User:Toverster</a>: Yeah, I was involved in the previous <a href="/wiki/SWEDHR" class="mw-redirect" title="SWEDHR">SWEDHR</a> (and the <a href="/wiki/Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli" title="Marcello Ferrada de Noli">Marcello Ferrada de Noli</a>-article), but then took them off my "watch-list".</dd> <dd>The thing is, both articles touches on what I have called the "the worst shit-hole on Wikipedia" (see above, under <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#AN_discussion">User_talk:Huldra#AN_discussion</a>), namely the Syrian war. Lets be clear: massive amounts of money have been poured into "on line information" (read: "online lies") by Western government (eg. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/revealed-british-government-covert-propaganda-campaign-syria">link</a>, or see <a href="/wiki/Institute_for_Statecraft" title="Institute for Statecraft">Institute for Statecraft</a>.)</dd> <dd>One has to be extremely naive to think that none of those resources have been put into Wikipedia editing.</dd> <dd>I basically gave up on the area after editors voted <a href="/wiki/Robert_Fisk" title="Robert Fisk">Robert Fisk</a> not to be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> for the <a href="/wiki/Douma_chemical_attack" title="Douma chemical attack">Douma chemical attack</a>, (see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Douma_chemical_attack/Archive_4" title="Talk:Douma chemical attack/Archive 4">here</a>), while at the very same time finding <a href="/wiki/Seth_Doane" title="Seth Doane">Seth Doane</a> (who went to Douma at the same time as Fisk) to be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>(!). This is such an outrageous double standard that I gave up the articles. (ie, stopped "watching" them)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>But recall: in 2003, around the time the US invaded <a href="/wiki/Iraq" title="Iraq">Iraq</a>, about 70% of the US population believed that <a href="/wiki/Saddam_Hussein" title="Saddam Hussein">Saddam Hussein</a> was involved in <a href="/wiki/9/11" class="mw-redirect" title="9/11">9/11</a> (<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/sep/07/usa.theobserver">link</a>). IMO; that was (mostly) the result of a massive disinformation campaign from the Bush government: no-one in that administration ever mentioned 9/11 without immediately mentioning Saddam Hussein. This, while Saddam Hussein was about as involved with 9/11 as you, or I, or Queen <a href="/wiki/Elizabeth_II" title="Elizabeth II">Elizabeth II</a>.</dd> <dd>How many of those 70% will even admit today that they ever thought that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11? No many, I suspect. Nobody likes to find out they have been fools.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>We are extremely naive if we believe that not similar dis-informaton (or rather: mis-informaton) campaigns have been going on wrt Syria,...or <a href="/wiki/Julian_Assange" title="Julian Assange">Julian Assange</a>.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>I became involved with the SWEDHR and de Noli articles as I understand Swedish (yeah, you can write in Swedish to me, if you like).</dd> <dd>Please do work on the articles, adding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> is the best you can do. I'll "watch" them again: but be warned: it will take a lot more than 5 minutes to get (or keep them) in a "neutral" way... <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-02-26T22:25:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-02-26T16:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:25, 26 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>PS: I haven't followed the Assange case closely, but I recall how he was totally ridiculed in <a href="/wiki/Mainstream_media" title="Mainstream media">MSM</a> as "paranoid" for not going to Sweden, saying they would use that to extradite him to the US....Hmm, looks as if that wasn't paranoia at all...</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Tack så mycket, Huldra, för dina åsikter, samt ditt råd. <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-02-27T08:22:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-02-26T16:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:22, 27 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>, I totally agree with your post and announced course of action you wrote in the Talk page of the SWEDHR article. I just posted a convergent suggestion at <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Protection_solicited_after_repeated_disruptive_editing_from_Gamesmasterg9">[13]</a>. I will be back tomorrow. Then I plan to do a sequence of short posts in the article Talk page, each one containing the core arguments for each of the edits I am suggesting. It would be great if you give me your opinion on those. As I said, not ready until perhaps tomorrow afternoon. I wish you a pleasant Saturday evening. <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-02-29T17:05:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-02-27T08:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:05, 29 February 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>: As I suggested, in view of your experience in WP editing, I think it is preferably that you do the edit of the necessary changes. Any how, I have shortened drastically my previous edit on the Organisation section. In case you find the time to review it (and maybe post it if you think it is appropriate). I put it in the Talk page (Break; the "Organization" part) <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Swedish_Doctors_for_Human_Rights#Break;_the_">"Organisation"_part</a>.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>When I check the WP article Marcello Ferrada de Noli to link it in the swedhr Organisation section, I saw some same ppl (?) participating in the discussion at the Admin board, that are now changing things in that article. So, apparently the 2017 circus is now recycling. Then, as they could not rebut the SWEDHR investigation's conclusions on the White Helmets, Gamester et al went to discredit the investigative organisation as such, via the horrible edits in the Swedhr article in WP. Now in 2020, when thy could not rebut the criticism of the falsehoods in that article, they turn to the WP article about the Swedhr's founder. I saw in that talk page also a ban asking for the deletion ok that article in 2017, in conjunction to the attack on Swedhr. And this now: [<a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=943113930#Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=943113930#Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli</a></dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>: <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-01T20:03:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-02-29T17:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:03, 1 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">User:Toverster</a>, I am not unduly concerned about the <a href="/wiki/Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli" title="Marcello Ferrada de Noli">Marcello Ferrada de Noli</a>-article being "trimmed" (it was rather excessively detailed, IMO.) However, we should note that self-published sources is allowed, when used about the person in question. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLPSPS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLPSPS">WP:BLPSPS</a>, where this is clearly stated. So info published by Marcello Ferrada de Noli about himself can be used in the <a href="/wiki/Marcello_Ferrada_de_Noli" title="Marcello Ferrada de Noli">Marcello Ferrada de Noli</a>-article, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-01T22:56:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-01T20:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:56, 1 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>, I share your opinion about that article.</dd> <dd>Regarding the Swedhr corrections, I have now posted in Talk page one suggestion for edit (about one topic). But there are other positions by SWEDHR (before and after the '2017 edition') published in WP:RS. I'll try to get back to it soon. Otherwise I have been doing diversified editing in the Swe WP. Great fun. My time is thou limited. But I hang on.</dd> <dd>P.S. I read this afternoon that the position of some in the SWEDHR to disagree with the RUS veto in the Sec Council might have been on behalf of neutralising Turkey of attacking Syria and thus deepening the war (based on the risk of a Turkey invasion deeper in Syria to engage gov forces. Which is what is apparently happening). But I have to search more about that Swedhr position. @<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>: <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-02T18:32:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-03-01T22:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 2 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>: Hi again, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>. I posted a suggestion for the "Positions taken by SWEDHR". I tried to follow the friendly (and awesome) advice from the journalist you mentioned. Well, I guess is not enough. Then, I added (for background info) what I found in my searching for Swedhr references in WP:RS. I am aware that is a bunch of text and perhaps its extension will irritate one or another user. So, please just remove it if you think is not really contributing. Thanks Huldra.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1209489738">.mw-parser-output .brokenref{display:none}</style>Cite error: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1209489738">There are <code><ref></code> tags on this page without content in them (see the <a href="/wiki/Help:Cite_errors/Cite_error_ref_no_input" title="Help:Cite errors/Cite error ref no input">help page</a>). <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>: Hi, I have now managed to shorten and clean up the first version of my proposal. I had in mind both the magic advice (to never forget) and the WP pages on style, NPV etc., which I checked it up. For the next section (currently labelled "Accusations..."), may I anticipate my suggestion for tittle: simply, "Controversies". Thanks again. <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-05T09:58:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-02T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:58, 5 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a>:, sorry, but I have been distracted by other wp-business... I'll try to take look at it. And I definitely agree: "Controversies" is a better headline (and the most "common" headline; I cannot recall any other article with a "Accusations..." headline), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-05T20:28:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-05T09:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>:, Fine, thanks. I have commented your (right) observation in "Positions taken by SWEDHR, subsection 1". In the meantime I will start working now with a proposal for the Controversies section. <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-06T10:19:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-03-05T20:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:19, 6 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>, I understood you are very occupied with other issues, as you said. I know how it is. No problem. I wonder if you just would be able to have a glance to my argument in <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Swedish_Doctors_for_Human_Rights#">"Positions_taken_by_SWEDHR",_moving_to_article</a> and perhaps OK the moving? My point being that the info there is only a listing of the positions as reported by the sources. The controversy about that (if any) should be treated in the new section "Controversies", together with the statements regarded as controversial by the old article's version. I added new WP:RS (four) and also I had to delete the ref to You Tube containing the Swedhr video on the shooting incident. Thanks again. <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-09T14:09:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-06T10:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:09, 9 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> @<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>:, <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Hi @<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>:, I posted a brief text in <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Swedish_Doctors_for_Human_Rights#Subsection_2:_Proposed_text_and_WP:RS_for_“Criticism”">[14]</a> as suggestion for section "Criticism". I also made a break down of the current edits <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Swedish_Doctors_for_Human_Rights#Subsection_1:_Inaccuracies_and_misrepresentations_in_current_version:">[15]</a> at the section. all authored by Gamemasterg9. Thanks.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-13T22:37:00.000Z-About_SWEDHR" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:37, 13 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">User:Toverster</a>: working on it! A couple of "technical" notes: you don't have to "ping" me when you write here on my talk-page (I automatically get a message). Also, when we refer to the same reference multiple times: we once give that reference a name, say <ref name =DN.02.04.2018>, and afterwards we can refer to the same reference by using <ref name =DN.02.04.2018/> (note the backslash). The name can be anything, but preferably something that makes some sense. Also, twitter and Youtube are not the best of sources, (to put it diplomatically), please read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#User-generated_content" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">Wikipedia:Reliable_sources#User-generated_content</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-16T23:47:00.000Z-About_SWEDHR" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:47, 16 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Hi Huldra. Important development. I saw that Swedhr had ceased the organization’s activities since January this year (an extension of one month “for the ending of representation activities of the chairman and vice-chairman”). It’s all in the homepage [Swedhr.org] in a statement signed Dr Lena Oske. It is said the Swedish doctors are now integrating the ranks of “Doctors For Assange” (international group started in London). I first saw it through a link in The Indicter but it has also been on Twitter. Also, another update necessary in the article is that the publication became independent from Swedhr in 2017 (as stated in The Indicter editorial page describing the publication’s history <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://theindicter.com/editorial-board/">[16]</a>). Difficult these days the editing even in the Swedish WP because work overload. But I'll make it to post an ‘updated’ version by only rephrasing into past tense, without changing anything of the texts agreed (with the exception of the update ref. The Indicter). I will now do the edit of the new proposal, opening a new section in Talk. I know you are also busy but if I may ask, as last thing, to consider publishing the updated version, and also to keep watching the article in case of the possibility of renewal of disrupting editing. On the other hand who would have interest in disrupt a defuncted organization. Thanks again, and for the editing advices!</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:04:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-03-16T23:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:04, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Hi again, I started now to work in the updated complete version, and I realise it is a lot of work. I mean it would be a lot of work for you if you would have to re-edit to make it in publishing format for both the "Criticism" section (with posting of 17 references, or so) and the new updated total version. So, I will publish the updates myself, and then you may please check that all is all right or/and change it. Thank you.</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:35:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:35, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">User:Toverster</a>, please hold off an hour or so; I'm working on it ;) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-29T21:38:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">User:Toverster</a>: Ok, I have finished; please make the updates you feel needed, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-29T21:43:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Oh my, I can't manage with that of not repeating the same reference in full. E.g. the last reference in "Criticism" section. Sorry. — Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster#top" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Toverster" title="Special:Contributions/Toverster">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">User:Toverster</a>: heh, don't worry about it: it took me ages before I got the hang of it! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-29T21:47:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:47, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Wonderful! I saw it. Thanks a lot, Huldra! I'll now edit the updates. <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:54:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Done :) <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Doctors_for_Human_Rights">[17]</a>. When possible in days of this week, I'll do the changes in the Swedish page. <a href="/wiki/User:Toverster" title="User:Toverster">Toverster</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toverster" title="User talk:Toverster">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Toverster-2020-03-29T22:50:00.000Z-Toverster-2020-03-29T21:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:50, 29 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Israel_“occupation”_vs_“rule”_of_east_Jerusalem_and_the_Golan" data-mw-thread-id="h-Israel_“occupation”_vs_“rule”_of_east_Jerusalem_and_the_Golan-2020-03-03T08:31:00.000Z">Israel “occupation” vs “rule” of east Jerusalem and the Golan</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=49" title="Edit section: Israel “occupation” vs “rule” of east Jerusalem and the Golan">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> One of the reasons I was told why the annexation and subsequent “rule” of the West Bank is not characterized as an “occupation” was because full legal rights were extending to the citizens under Jordanian rule. Seeing as full legal rights are extended to those in the Golan and East Jerusalem, can you help me understand why differing terminology is used? Also, Both countries annexations were similarly granted limited recognition. Does it have something to do with the consent of the governed? If there’s another forum for me to posit this question, please let me know thank you. I reached out to you because you seem knowledgeable on the topic of Israel and the conflicts. Thank you <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-03-03T08:31:00.000Z-Israel_“occupation”_vs_“rule”_of_east_Jerusalem_and_the_Golan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:31, 3 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">User:Zarcademan123456</a>: There is a huge difference between the Jordanian/Syrian and the Israeli rule/occupation, as I am sure you know. (AFAIK; no Jordanian leader ever said that the ultimate goal of Jordanian rule of the West Bank/Jerusalem was to get every Palestinian there to leave, or if they stayed: it was to serve their "Jordanian masters". I can find (far too many) such statements from Israeli leaders/rabbis.)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Having said that: I am far more familiar with the pre-1948 history, than the post-1948 history. There are other editors here, who are far, far more knowledgable than <s>be</s> me about these "newer" issues.</dd> <dd>I would suggest you raise the matter at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration">Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration</a>: big issues (in the IP section on wp) can never be determined by one or two people: we need community discussions for that, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-03T20:57:00.000Z-Zarcademan123456-2020-03-03T08:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:57, 3 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Also, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">User:Zarcademan123456</a>: will you please stop making the same changes to a lot of articles, without discussing them first? They will only be reversed. It is really a waste of everyones time, and it is extremely disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-03T23:07:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-03-03T20:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:07, 3 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> Thanks for the feedback and directing me where to go. Also, I can’t tell you how refreshing your humility is (“ far, far more knowledgable than [m]e”)...that is something I just feel I don’t often see. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-03-04T08:19:00.000Z-Israel_“occupation”_vs_“rule”_of_east_Jerusalem_and_the_Golan" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:19, 4 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">User:Zarcademan123456</a>: "Humility" has nothing to do with it; it is just stating the plain facts. Another plain fact: you are being extremely disruptive, when you after being told to stop, still go around doing edit like <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fasayil&curid=17901849&diff=943970516&oldid=942711836">this</a>, without any discussion. You are wasting everyone's time, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-04T23:05:00.000Z-Zarcademan123456-2020-03-04T08:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:05, 4 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jordanian_“occupation”_then_“rule”" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jordanian_“occupation”_then_“rule”-2020-03-06T22:37:00.000Z">Jordanian “occupation” then “rule”</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=50" title="Edit section: Jordanian “occupation” then “rule”">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Would it be incorrect to characterize the Jordanian rule over the West Bank before formal annexation in 1950 as an “occupation”, seeing as, similar to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, sovereignty had yet to be applied? Just trying to understand, so as to harmonize the terms characterizing the Jordan and Israeli governances during this seemingly similar time. Zarcademan123456 (talk) 15:16, 5 March 2020 (UTC) See Deir Abu Da’im, for example Zarcademan123456 (talk) 15:34, 5 March 2020 (UTC) Deir Abu Da’if my apologies Zarcademan123456 (talk) 15:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC) I assume you read the article Jordanian annexation of the West Bank where you are proposing a page move? The first line of the lead reads "The Jordanian annexation of the West Bank was the occupation of the West Bank (including East Jerusalem) by Jordan (formerly Transjordan) following the 1948 Arab–Israeli War and its subsequent annexation." Selfstudier (talk) 18:00, 5 March 2020 (UTC) The Jordanian governance prior to annexation is characterized as an occupation. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-03-06T22:37:00.000Z-Jordanian_“occupation”_then_“rule”" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:37, 6 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>As I said on <a href="/wiki/Talk:Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Talk:Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Talk:Jordanian annexation of the West Bank</a>: it was 2 years of formally occupying, and then 17 years of formally annexing...and you want the 2 years to "trumph" the 17 years?</dd> <dd>Secondly, I could cherry-pick anything out of <a href="/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Israeli occupation of the West Bank">Israeli occupation of the West Bank</a> (say Israel's " "flagrant violation of international law", etc)...and then put that into each and every article which has a link to <a href="/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Israeli occupation of the West Bank">Israeli occupation of the West Bank</a>: more than 500.</dd> <dd>I haven't done so, and I will not do so.</dd> <dd>You, by unilaterally cheery-picking parts of the <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian annexation of the West Bank</a>, and putting it into hundreds of other articles are doing exactly that. It is extremely disruptive, and a waste of everybody's time,</dd> <dd>The way to avoid endless edit-warring is to put what is contested into one article (where possible), and link to that. Anything relating to the 1948-1967 Jordanian occupation/annexation should go into <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank"> this article</a>, and nowhere else. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-06T22:53:00.000Z-Zarcademan123456-2020-03-06T22:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Zionist_political_violence" data-mw-thread-id="h-Zionist_political_violence-2020-03-18T22:03:00.000Z">Zionist political violence</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=51" title="Edit section: Zionist political violence">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I don't have the Wiki-authority to edit <a href="/wiki/Zionist_political_violence" title="Zionist political violence">Zionist political violence</a>, would you help me? As I've noted and you've kindly amended, the article incorrectly only deals with Zionist violence up to the year of 1948. I would like to add some examples from that point up to the present day, for example: <a href="/wiki/Kach_and_Kahane_Chai" class="mw-redirect" title="Kach and Kahane Chai">Kach and Kahane Chai</a> considered a terrorist organisation by Israel, Canada the European Union, Japan and the United States. <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League" title="Jewish Defense League">Jewish Defense League</a>, classified as "a right wing terrorist group" by the FBI in 2001.</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Sicarii_(1989)" title="Sicarii (1989)">Sicarii (1989)</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein" title="Baruch Goldstein">Baruch Goldstein</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Meir_Kahane" title="Meir Kahane">Meir Kahane</a> this guy truly was something.</li></ul> Obviously, this is just a tl;dr, lacking all context and sources.(I hope I'm not oversteping any boundaries by writing here, if so, I do sincerely apologise.)<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kuiet&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kuiet (page does not exist)">Kuiet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kuiet" title="User talk:Kuiet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Kuiet-2020-03-18T22:03:00.000Z-Zionist_political_violence" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:03, 18 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Well, the problem is to distinguish between between <a href="/wiki/Zionist_political_violence" title="Zionist political violence">Zionist political violence</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism" class="mw-redirect" title="Jewish religious terrorism">Jewish religious terrorism</a>. (Indeed, they can sometime overlap, me thinks). All the above probably more belong in the religious category (and all are mentioned in the <a href="/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism" class="mw-redirect" title="Jewish religious terrorism">Jewish religious terrorism</a>-article, which is linked in the "see also" section.) We might possibly have a sub-section about mainly religious terrorism (linking to the <a href="/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism" class="mw-redirect" title="Jewish religious terrorism">Jewish religious terrorism</a>-article: presently that article "drowns" in the other links there, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-03-19T23:46:00.000Z-Kuiet-2020-03-18T22:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 19 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That is indeed the problem. Made no easier by <blockquote class="quote-frame pullquote" style="font-size: 95%; padding: 0.5em 2em; background-color: var( --background-color-neutral-subtle, #f8f9fa ); color: var( --color-base, black ); border: 1px solid #aaa; display:table; float:none;"><div style="padding: 0.6em 1em;">A religious variety of Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity defined as adherence to religious Judaism, opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies, and has advocated the return of Jews to Israel as a means for Jews to be a majority nation in their own state. <cite style="display: block; text-align: right;"> — <a href="/wiki/Zionism" title="Zionism">Zionism</a></cite></div></blockquote></dd> <dd>Nonetheless, since <a href="/wiki/Jewish_religious_terrorism" class="mw-redirect" title="Jewish religious terrorism">Jewish religious terrorism</a> is defined as "motivated by religious rather than ethnic or nationalistic beliefs." I find it a fairly safe to conclude that the first three aforementioned examples fit under "Zionist political" better than under "Jewish religious": <ul><li>The group's founder, Meir Kahane, "preached a radical form of Jewish nationalism which reflected racism, violence and political extremism,"</li> <li>Sicarii's goal was to send a message to Israeli politicians that there would be opposition to any process of rapprochement with the Palestine Liberation Organization.</li> <li>Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin condemned the attack, describing Goldstein as a "degenerate murderer", "a shame on Zionism and an embarrassment to Judaism". (from <a href="/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre" title="Cave of the Patriarchs massacre">Cave of the Patriarchs massacre</a>)</li></ul></dd> <dd>While <a href="/wiki/Meir_Kahane" title="Meir Kahane">Meir Kahane</a> is, indeed, too hard for me to distinguish. But, you know, I don't much care either way. I listed the examples to make clear my case that the article is in need of inspection and amelioration and ask for assistance; the specifics hardly matter at this point. And please know that I do apologise for being so late in replying.<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Kuiet&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Kuiet (page does not exist)">Kuiet</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kuiet" title="User talk:Kuiet">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Kuiet-2020-03-26T02:35:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-03-19T23:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="RFC;_“were_taken”" data-mw-thread-id="h-RFC;_“were_taken”-2020-03-26T22:27:00.000Z">RFC; “were taken”</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=52" title="Edit section: RFC; “were taken”">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Please see <a class="external free" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dura_al-Qar%27">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Dura_al-Qar%27</a> Since I can’t figure out the exact mechanism for an RFC, can you tell me exactly what language you would be in favor of seeing regarding the expanding of articles? I just want to expand the articles to include legal status of lands over past 100 years. Also, regarding “were taken” (<a class="external free" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/947536442">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/947536442</a>) given how it previously mentioned Israel’s confiscation of land above, in a pursuit of conciseness, why is deleting “were taken” not appropriate? Also as an aside, stay safe from corona :) <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-03-26T22:27:00.000Z-RFC;_“were_taken”" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:27, 26 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Please_see" data-mw-thread-id="h-Please_see-2020-03-26T22:48:00.000Z">Please see</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=53" title="Edit section: Please see">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a class="external free" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Beitar_Illit#Were_taken">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Beitar_Illit#Were_taken</a> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-03-26T22:48:00.000Z-Please_see" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:48, 26 March 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jerusalem_Annex" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jerusalem_Annex-2020-04-08T15:13:00.000Z">Jerusalem Annex</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=54" title="Edit section: Jerusalem Annex">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, it's probably staring me in the face but do you have a list of those WB villages that got swept up in the annex, like Shuafat and Kafr 'Aqab? <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-08T15:13:00.000Z-Jerusalem_Annex" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">User:Selfstudier</a>: I assume it is on a map somewhere, <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">User:Zero0000</a>: do you know? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-04-08T21:20:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-04-08T15:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 8 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a>: I'm not sure what the question is. The villages included in the post-1967 municipal boundary are here: <a href="/wiki/File:EastJerusalemMap.jpg" title="File:EastJerusalemMap.jpg">File:EastJerusalemMap.jpg</a> ? Note that some places were cut by the boundary. In terms of expropriation, there are lists in the book "Land Expropriation in Israel" by Holzman-Gazit, and "Separate and Unequal" by Cheshin. There is also a <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.btselem.org/sites/default/files/publications/199505_policy_of_discrimination_eng.pdf">Btselem report</a> and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.btselem.org/jerusalem/land_expropriation_statistics">more recent statisics</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-04-09T02:35:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-04-08T21:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:35, 9 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero0000</a>: That's it, perfect, thanks very much.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-09T10:19:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-04-09T02:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:19, 9 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Reason I asked was because after a bit of kerfuffle on the Kafr 'Aqab page, I ended up making some changes there but when I look at some other inside the Jerusalem border the presentation (lead/infobox(if there is one)/short description)is a bit different. To take the 2 extremes <a href="/wiki/Beit_Hanina" title="Beit Hanina">Beit Hanina</a> and say, <a href="/wiki/Shuafat" title="Shuafat">Shuafat</a> and cf where I ended up at <a href="/wiki/Kafr_%27Aqab" title="Kafr 'Aqab">Kafr 'Aqab</a>. Any thoughts on which ought to be the general approach? <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-09T14:17:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-04-09T10:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:17, 9 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="You_repeat_a_reverted_edit" data-mw-thread-id="h-You_repeat_a_reverted_edit-2020-04-13T09:55:00.000Z">You repeat a reverted edit</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=55" title="Edit section: You repeat a reverted edit">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I reverted your <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battir&diff=946401447&oldid=944075474">edit from March 20</a> with a clear explanation.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battir&diff=946478257&oldid=946478142">[18]</a> Why did you <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battir&diff=950602754&oldid=949760289">repeat it again today</a>, ignoring my revert and its reasons? Please understand, that that is not collegiality, and especially in the already loaded WP:ARBPIA area. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-04-13T09:55:00.000Z-You_repeat_a_reverted_edit" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:55, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a>: Um, there is a bit more going on here than just this. I have already issued a warning to Zarc (the originator of this edit) on his talk page about this (he is acquiring a fair old list of warnings by now, I did ask you to try and help him with requesting changes in a centralized way rather than making many (dozens, hundreds?) of separate edits of little value that seem to me to be more about making a point than anything constructive). The net new information being added there is "in 1950" and that is anyway in the original wikilink.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-13T11:54:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-04-13T09:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:54, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>The net information is a lot more than just the year; it is the differentiation between "rule" and "annexation", which are two different things and took place in different years, as I explained already on the talkpage of the article as well. Whatever Zarc did or should have done, I am not aware of, since all I address is the edit itself, and IMHO it has great value. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-04-13T13:05:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-04-13T11:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:05, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>As I said , there is more going on here, Zarc opened an RFC (I helped him do it) at the wikilinked annexation article, propsing it be changed to occupation. The rule part is not an innacurate description of the wikilinked annexation article. The point remains that he is attempting this (and other troublesome edits) en masse (which strikes me as a rather odd thing to be doing, I assume he is working through some kind of list). As things stand, it remains for Zarc to justify (and to the extent that he is cherrypicking from a wikilinked article, then it needs independent sourcing) his editing, you and he would like it in (even if he would like it in in many many places and you only in one) and Huldra and I (I think some others also reverted him elsewhere for the same edit) would like it out ie return to the stable version of many years. If it really is such a big issue (and I do not think it is, it is barely even a minor issue) then we ought to set up an RFC at the central point to resolve it (we have in fact asked him to do this on many occasions and he claims an inability to do so).<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-13T15:44:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-04-13T13:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:44, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">User:Debresser</a>: the annexation part was first introduced by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan12345&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan12345 (page does not exist)">User:Zarcademan12345</a> on <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Battir&type=revision&diff=943976528&oldid=943975831">March 4, 2020</a> ...he has been putting similar phrases into literally hundreds and hundreds of West Bank places.</dd> <dd>I have asked him countless of times to start a RfC or equivalent, before he goes on a rampage of editing ...but it has been like talking to a stone. The worst case of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDIDN%27THEARTHAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDIDN'THEARTHAT">WP:IDIDN'THEARTHAT</a> that I have come across on wp for at least a decade.</dd> <dd>My objection to it, is that he is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CHERRYPICKING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CHERRYPICKING">WP:CHERRYPICKING</a> info out of the <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian annexation of the West Bank</a> article. I could of course cherrypick info out of, say the <a href="/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Israeli occupation of the West Bank">Israeli occupation of the West Bank</a>, but I think we agree: (I hope we agree!) ..that controversial info should be in as few articles as possible (where all the info regarding any controversy can be presented)...and then we can link to those articles.</dd> <dd>Of course, if Zarc got a the approval of a RfC, I would off course follow that. But what he is doing now: just forcing HIS view on wp with tons of edits.....that is not a good way to proceed in the IP area, to put it very diplomatically, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-04-13T21:14:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-04-13T15:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:14, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I understand that the way he went about this might not be okay, but I think that in this specific case the edit is a good one, and I frankly have not yet heard one argument from anybody why the edit is not good. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-04-13T22:11:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-04-13T21:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">User:Debresser</a>: Cherrypicking?? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-04-13T22:14:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-04-13T22:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>The edit shows the consecutive phases: first rule, then annexation. I think it adds important information. Why do you call this cherrypicking? Especially since cherrypicking has a negative connotation, and I see nothing negative about this edit. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-04-13T22:21:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-04-13T22:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:21, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>This discussion should probably go under <a href="/wiki/Talk:Battir" title="Talk:Battir">Talk:Battir</a>, but as I have said before: the view of the Jordanian era (1948-67) are...many, and some controversial. If we link to the <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian annexation of the West Bank</a>, everything should be there. (Again, I could pick something out of the <a href="/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Israeli occupation of the West Bank">Israeli occupation of the West Bank</a>, and put that in each and every West Bank village..alas, that is a recipe for edit-wars). Again, since this is relevant for hundreds of articles: please start a RfC if you find it important, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-04-13T22:29:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-04-13T22:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:29, 13 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>I agree, the point of a wikilink is so as to avoid the need for for cherry picking. Otherwise every cherrypicked datum needs to be re-sourced. In any case, the general issue needs an RFC, even if it were resolved for one page, that does not mean automatic application to every other. I notice these edits are still being made, I think we are being forced to dispute resolution (again).<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-14T09:22:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-04-13T22:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:22, 14 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>I made an RFC on Zarcademan behalf since he says that he is unable to do it himself. <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration#RFC:_West_Bank_village_articles">Here</a><a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-14T10:36:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-04-13T22:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:36, 14 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> "Came under the rule of" implies something totally different than "annexation." The former suggests the possibility of consent or agreement, the latter clearly does not. The sources describe an annexation almost universally. Z's edits are much more faithful to the sources than yours, yet you accuse Z of trying to "prove a point" and use that as a justification for edit-warring across dozens of articles? Why shouldn't I report you at AE for this? <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor19920" title="User:Wikieditor19920">Wikieditor19920</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor19920" title="User talk:Wikieditor19920">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Wikieditor19920-2020-04-30T17:45:00.000Z-You_repeat_a_reverted_edit" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 30 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don't know if this is addressed to me or to Huldra. In any case I have pointed you to the relevant RFC, go there if you have something to add.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-30T17:52:00.000Z-Wikieditor19920-2020-04-30T17:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:52, 30 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a>: You seem to be a participant in this dispute as well. I am addressing my comment to Huldra, who has reverted Zarcademan across dozens of articles despite the fact that his additions properly reflect language universally used in reliable sources. You have opened an RfC that suggests there is a problem with using this language, and your and Huldra's edits add language that is more ambiguous and suggests something not supported by the sources. Using legitimate Wiki processes to create the appearance of a legitimate content dispute where the sources are unambiguous and the proposed addition clearly conforms with the source is disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor19920" title="User:Wikieditor19920">Wikieditor19920</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor19920" title="User talk:Wikieditor19920">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Wikieditor19920-2020-04-30T17:55:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-04-30T17:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:55, 30 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Please don't start pinging me again, I have told you about this before. The only editor with disruptive warnings up to now is Zarcademan, look at his talk page. The RFC is a solution to the edit warring, not an excuse for you to "get involved".<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-30T17:59:00.000Z-Wikieditor19920-2020-04-30T17:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 30 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I see a bunch of warnings from you, Nableezy, and Huldra, all centered on content disputes, and an AE filing with no action taken. And here, Zarcadeaman123456 has the better of the argument because his language is explicitly supported by sources. You should not be misusing template warnings to the extent that you are to bully editors you disagree with, and edit-warring across these articles over language that is clearly <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:V" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:V">WP:V</a>, and replacing it with suggestive language non-compliant with NPOV, is a serious problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor19920" title="User:Wikieditor19920">Wikieditor19920</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor19920" title="User talk:Wikieditor19920">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Wikieditor19920-2020-04-30T18:04:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-04-30T17:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 30 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>You forgot the warning from Zero. I am sure Zarcademan will be pleased to have you as his public defender. We done now?<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-30T18:10:00.000Z-Wikieditor19920-2020-04-30T18:04:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:10, 30 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a>: We've been done. I'd like to hear from Huldra why they are edit-warring across multiple articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor19920" title="User:Wikieditor19920">Wikieditor19920</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor19920" title="User talk:Wikieditor19920">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Wikieditor19920-2020-04-30T18:14:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-04-30T18:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:14, 30 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>That's up to her, meanwhile you have once again pinged me after I have requested you to cease doing so. I can see that you and civility are merely casual acquaintances. Why don't you go back to doing bios, you seem to know what you are doing there?<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-30T18:17:00.000Z-Wikieditor19920-2020-04-30T18:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:17, 30 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I've made clear to the user above that any further personal attacks or battleground behavior will result in my requesting an interaction ban. In the meantime, my question to <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> about why edit-warring across over a dozen articles, over content that appears to be verifiably supported in the sources, is appropriate still stands. <a href="/wiki/User:Wikieditor19920" title="User:Wikieditor19920">Wikieditor19920</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wikieditor19920" title="User talk:Wikieditor19920">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Wikieditor19920-2020-05-01T17:28:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-04-30T18:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 1 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Infobox" data-mw-thread-id="h-Infobox-2020-04-15T14:39:00.000Z">Infobox</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=56" title="Edit section: Infobox">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Is there a standard infobox for Israeli settlements? I noticed that for Barkan (it's still a settlement, just the type is industrial (IZ)) is a dog's breakfast (West Bank, Israel). I changed the short desc, that was showing Israel as well, but the infobox is all wrong.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-04-15T14:39:00.000Z-Infobox" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 15 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Help_with_an_athlete?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Help_with_an_athlete?-2020-04-19T01:42:00.000Z">Help with an athlete?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=57" title="Edit section: Help with an athlete?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi! I'm not sure if you could help or not, but I'm working to get the Kenyan athlete Augustus Kavutu added to Wikipedia. I saw you were a part of Africa-related projects. A student of mine drafted the article, but it has been proposed for deletion here: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Augustus_Mbusya_Kavutu">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Augustus_Mbusya_Kavutu</a><a href="/wiki/User:Comm260_ncu" title="User:Comm260 ncu">Comm260 ncu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Comm260_ncu" title="User talk:Comm260 ncu">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Comm260_ncu-2020-04-19T01:42:00.000Z-Help_with_an_athlete?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:42, 19 April 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Do_you_have_the_book_"The_Lord's_Land"_by_Henry_B._Ridgaway?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Do_you_have_the_book_"The_Lord's_Land"_by_Henry_B._Ridgaway?-2020-05-06T13:22:00.000Z">Do you have the book "The Lord's Land" by Henry B. Ridgaway?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=58" title="Edit section: Do you have the book "The Lord's Land" by Henry B. Ridgaway?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> "The Lord's Land: A Narrative of Travels in Sinai, Arabia, Petraea, and Palestine, from the Red Sea to the Entering in of Hamath", New York 1876.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2020-05-06T13:22:00.000Z-Do_you_have_the_book_"The_Lord's_Land"_by_Henry_B._Ridgaway?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:22, 6 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a>: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=njp.32101027480985&view=1up&seq=15">Here it is</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-05-06T13:34:00.000Z-Bolter21-2020-05-06T13:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:34, 6 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Much thanks.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2020-05-06T13:47:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-05-06T13:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:47, 6 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>And Huldra if I am overflowing your talkpages with requests for 19th century sources please say.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2020-05-06T13:48:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-05-06T13:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:48, 6 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">User:Bolter21</a>: not at all, (I am just rather busy at the moment, and may be late in answering, though), cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-05-06T20:07:00.000Z-Bolter21-2020-05-06T13:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 6 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Violations_of_Wikipedia_policy" data-mw-thread-id="h-Violations_of_Wikipedia_policy-2020-05-08T05:10:00.000Z">Violations of Wikipedia policy</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=59" title="Edit section: Violations of Wikipedia policy">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Please cease and desist using “segregation” as you did at <a class="external free" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaba%27,_Jerusalem">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaba%27,_Jerusalem</a> It violates Wikipedia NPOV. Also, “were taken”...? Again, as I said at beitar Illit, what does adding these two words add to comprehension of article? as “were taken” obv implied by “confiscate” <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zarcademan123456" title="User talk:Zarcademan123456">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zarcademan123456-2020-05-08T05:10:00.000Z-Violations_of_Wikipedia_policy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:10, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Also you edited with false edit summary is not merely a "ce" but extensive POV changes --<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T07:03:00.000Z-Zarcademan123456-2020-05-08T05:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:03, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> and <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Zarcademan123456&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Zarcademan123456 (page does not exist)">Zarcademan123456</a>: as I told Sir Joseph, the source actually calls it a segregation wall. Since the source says segregation wall we need to use the term. The NPOV solution is to use both as at <a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli West Bank barrier</a>. Huldra, please use edit summaries more accurately. <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T10:06:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T07:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a>, What about when source use Samaria instead West Bank? Also the source is clearly partisan shouldn't we use neutral terms per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>? --<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T10:48:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T10:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:48, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a>, It was already advised by AE admins<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive220#Huldra">[19]</a> now to use such terms she was not sanctioned because it was not discussed with her now it is. <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T10:51:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T10:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:51, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Folks, a title for the wall has already been chosen for Wikipedia. It is: <a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli West Bank barrier</a>. Use <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RM">WP:RM</a>, if you wish to change that. Using a redirect to accommodate this or that source seems unusual. Sure, there can be secondary names in that article, and there are, but different articles ought to reflect the consensus title. Consistency with the title is preferred. Quotes may be piped, but otherwise, avoid redirect. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T11:06:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T10:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:06, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, The problem you and Doug Weller give a contradictory remarks(and btw its fence at least 90% of it) <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:10:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:10, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>On further thought, if local components of the wall (or fence, or whatever) are titled uniquely, piping may also be okay. At its heart, that would make it a content dispute on how to assign <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">due weight</a> to what. I don't see how misrepresentation of sources come into effect for that (again, not a quote) passage, and by extension any DS enforcement pertaining to this dispute in its present form. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T11:13:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:13, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Shrike, that's mostly too terse to be useful. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T11:15:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:15, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, So you suggestion is not clear most <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> way is to use our name especially if the source use partisan terms --<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:20:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:20, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, Do you propose to use quotes when quoting not neutral terms? <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:16:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:16, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I support building consensus on Wikipedia that ends up reflecting the consensus in academia and the mainstream. An effort toward that end is encouraged. Deciding when to quote and when to use original prose is part of the process. Deciding what are "neutral terms" is also part of that process. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T11:21:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:21, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, Such consensus was already was built when we decided the article name <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:26:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:26, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>@Doug Weller There is nothing in Wikipedia policy that says we must use the precise terms of our sources. Rather the other way around, we are encouraged to paraphrase and use our own words when writing articles. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-05-08T11:14:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T10:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:14, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> (<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>) My point was that if a source says one thing we shouldn't say the opposite, so to speak. The source used the term in a section heading and the first sentence is that section is "The Israeli Segregation Wall Plan has had a negative and destructive impact on Jaba' village."@<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a>: how is the <a href="/wiki/Applied_Research_Institute%E2%80%93Jerusalem" title="Applied Research Institute–Jerusalem">Applied Research Institute–Jerusalem</a> clearly partisan? That same link shows that it's widely used. As I said, we should use both, as both terms are disputed by the other side. Choosing to use only a term not used in the source, that seems pretty pov. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">User:El C</a>, it's not a quote but still... and there's nothing suggesting that the term is a local one, or at least nothing I could find. Debresser, I agree we paraphrase, but that doesn't avoid the pov issue, unless you are actually arguing that one term is pov, the other not? <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T11:19:00.000Z-Violations_of_Wikipedia_policy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:19, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a>, Its a pro-Palestinian NGO with clear agenda its not some independent university its not clear on what they base the data and how much its reliable --<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:25:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T11:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:25, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a>: it doesn't say that in its title, nor was that agreed in the RSN discussion.<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_232#Is_Applied_Research_Institute%E2%80%93Jerusalem_%28ARIJ%29_a_WP%3ARS%3F">[20]</a> - you need to go back to RSN, otherwise it's just your opinion - which may be correct, but I don't see sources stating that. <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T11:39:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a>, It was also not agreed that its reliable the only no regular of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPIA">WP:ARBPIA</a> that commented was very sceptical of this source.The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ONUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ONUS">WP:ONUS</a> are on those who want to add it <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:41:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T11:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:41, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Doug, both sounds like a good compromise, if you're able to elegantly accomplish that in the prose. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T11:38:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T11:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:38, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a>, And the Israeli term is Anti-Terrorist fence<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=9k03DAAAQBAJ&pg=PA150#v=onepage&q&f=false">[21]</a> does it ok to use it? <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:39:00.000Z-Doug_Weller-2020-05-08T11:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That's not גדר ההפרדה. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T11:48:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:48, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, The source is clearly says otherwise anyhow Israeli West Bank barrier is not Israel term like Doug said .Its was a NPOV compromise <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:53:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:53, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The Israeli term is "the separation fence" (גדר ההפרדה). Yes, the <a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli West Bank barrier</a> is the title chosen on Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T11:58:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T11:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:58, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, So for example this source use anti-terrorist fence does it OK to use it or no? <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T12:01:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:01, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, I reread your first response its not for local components the source never use some other term. <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T12:02:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T11:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:02, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Usage is to be determined by discussion. I don't see how it's practical to use three terms, but I suppose it is in the realm of possibilities. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T12:08:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T12:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:08, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Fence, lol. Tell Banksy not to write on the fence.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-05-08T12:12:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T12:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:12, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, So to summarize this discussion what you as uninvolved admin propose? <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T12:17:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T12:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:17, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I propose you discuss usage of the term/s on the article talk page, keeping in mind that the primary title on the English Wikipedia is <a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli West Bank barrier</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T12:19:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T12:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:19, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, so we now have to use a term because a pro-Palestinian source uses it, even though it's not neutral and violates Wikipedia article policy and consensus? I just want to make sure we have the new policy you and Doug just made up. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2020-05-08T12:25:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T12:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:25, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You don't have to use either a pro-Palestinian or pro-Israeli terms. You could use neither, or both. That's what article talk page discussion is for. Again, the primary title on the English Wikipedia is <a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli West Bank barrier</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T12:29:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2020-05-08T12:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:29, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El C</a>, right, Huldra was the one who redirected to segregation wall, and I got a notice by Doug for reverting that. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2020-05-08T12:44:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T12:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:44, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I disagree with Doug in this instance (which doesn't happen often) about the notice and I invite all participants to advance their arguments on the article talk page. Yes, two uninvolved admins can disagree. It happens. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T12:48:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2020-05-08T12:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:48, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>If I am allowed my 2 cents, I would always use the WP article term unless a Rsource is using something else which should be quoted and probably attributed as well.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-05-08T12:26:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2020-05-08T12:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:26, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a>, We need a consistent policy one way or another --<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T12:31:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-05-08T12:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:31, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well how would you deal with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=NrONN5PlYQoC&pg=PA279">this</a>?<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-05-08T12:35:00.000Z-Shrike-2020-05-08T12:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:35, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There is no policy that addresses this that I am aware of. Local consensus should decide usage. If you want a wider policy discussion, you can use <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)">Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T12:40:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-05-08T12:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:40, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>If its <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">WP:DUE</a> to explain Zegler views we of course should use the term "Apartheid fence" or any other term but in this case it was not used to explain ARIJ views like I say the policy should be consistent either we use terms used by source someone view or we should use wiki article titles when we when we not explain someone view and in this case no pipe links --<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2020-05-08T12:39:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-05-08T12:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr/> For the benefit of Huldra's talk page, please continue the discussion on the article talk page. Thank you in advance, everyone. <a href="/wiki/User:El_C" title="User:El C">El_C</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-El_C-2020-05-08T12:45:00.000Z-Violations_of_Wikipedia_policy" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:45, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Good Lord, what a storm in a teacup.</li> <li>Some points: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_232#Is_Applied_Research_Institute–Jerusalem_(ARIJ)_a_WP:RS?" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 232">the RS/N</a> was from 2017, in 2018 we had a RfC, see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Jabel_Mukaber#External_links" title="Talk:Jabel Mukaber">Talk:Jabel_Mukaber#External_links</a>, and note what closing admin llywrch says about <a href="/wiki/ARIJ" class="mw-redirect" title="ARIJ">ARIJ</a></li> <li>Out of laziness (I admit!) I often use the exact phrase used in a source, and then make a redir (if it doesn't already exists). Typically it is for names (as names originally in Arabic/Hebrew can be written in English in so many, many ways). (Of my 50 last edits, I see that 5 of them are redirs: I have made thousands). Of course, if anyone change the redir to the "Official name", I do not re-introduce the redir. So if anyone change <a href="/wiki/Segregation_wall" class="mw-redirect" title="Segregation wall">segregation wall</a> into <a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli West Bank barrier</a>; fine. Just like I wouldn't undo anyone editing <a href="/wiki/Hamza_Abdouh" title="Hamza Abdouh">Hamza Abdouh</a> changing <a href="/wiki/Raed_Awisat" class="mw-redirect" title="Raed Awisat">Raed Awisat</a> to <a href="/wiki/Rad_Aweisat" title="Rad Aweisat">Rad Aweisat</a> (just to mention a redir just did.)</li> <li>Ahem, I have seen that when I have changed <a href="/wiki/Israel_War_of_Independence" class="mw-redirect" title="Israel War of Independence">Israel War of Independence</a> to the "official name", namely <a href="/wiki/1947%E2%80%931949_Palestine_war" class="mw-redirect" title="1947–1949 Palestine war">1947–1949 Palestine war</a>, then that has often been undone. There are presently <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Israel_War_of_Independence">24 links</a> to <a href="/wiki/Israel_War_of_Independence" class="mw-redirect" title="Israel War of Independence">Israel War of Independence</a>.</li> <li>As for my edit of <a href="/wiki/Jaba%27,_Jerusalem" title="Jaba', Jerusalem">Jaba', Jerusalem</a>: why I edited it was to change After -> Since. (First word in the "Post-1967" section). Then I saw that Zarcademan123456 had edited, introducing spelling errors ("<a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli seperation wall</a>" (my bolding)), in addition to removing the word "confiscated" (which is the word ARIJ and numerous other sources use, but Zarcademan123456 does not like). So yes, I undid it (and yeah: I should have used a more instructive edit-line than "ce")</li> <li>Also, Zarcademan123456 was cautioned <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive263#Zarcademan123456" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive263">at AE in March this year</a>: "Zarcademan123456 is cautioned against making mass changes when these involve contested edits. Similar problems are likely to be met with sanctions next time."</li> <li>However, that is exactly what he continues to do: make hundreds of similar edits all over the West Bank villages, without getting the consensus first. Apparently admins are unable to stop this disruptive behaviour, (looking at his talk-page I get the impression of the worst case of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDIDNTHEARTHAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDIDNTHEARTHAT">WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT</a> that I have seen in years), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-05-08T21:44:00.000Z-El_C-2020-05-08T12:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:44, 8 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Important_source" data-mw-thread-id="h-Important_source-2020-05-09T17:42:00.000Z">Important source</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=60" title="Edit section: Important source">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I never see used. <a href="/wiki/F%C3%A9lix-Marie_Abel" title="Félix-Marie Abel">Félix-Marie Abel</a>, Géographie de la Palestine, 2 vols. I downloaded one of his massive studies on Jerusalem finding it effortlessly, but couldn't find in it what I was looking for. But in any case, do you know if the above study has been made available for internet access? It probably has material, for one, on wadi qana. Cheers <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-05-09T17:42:00.000Z-Important_source" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:42, 9 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a>: when Shrike started the <a href="/wiki/F%C3%A9lix-Marie_Abel" title="Félix-Marie Abel">Félix-Marie Abel</a> article 2 years ago, I did quite extensive search for (publicly) available works. Géographie de la Palestine was not available then, and I cannot find (publicly available) today, either. "Gallica" would have been my first bet, but it only have his works on Hebron and Emmaus: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://gallica.bnf.fr/services/engine/search/sru?operation=searchRetrieve&exactSearch=false&collapsing=true&version=1.2&query=(dc.creator%20all%20%22Félix-Marie%20Abel%22%20or%20dc.contributor%20all%20%22Félix-Marie%20Abel%22%20)%20&suggest=10&keywords=Félix-Marie%20Abel">link</a>,</dd> <dd>Hard-copies are actually available at the local library for me (both the 1930s and the 1967 editions), but the libraries are all covid-19 closed :/ <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-05-09T21:09:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-05-09T17:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:09, 9 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No. Even if they are there, I wouldn't get anyone to do my 'dirty' work of drudgery. In any case, had I not a million other things to do, I could certainly read them in any number of Roman libraries, through one contact or another, were this covid business not afoot. I didn't look into the history, but it is very commendable that Shrike prompted the wiki bio. His books are detailed and voluminous to gather from the Jerusalem one I downloaded. Thanks and, keep safe.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-05-09T22:19:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-05-09T21:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:19, 9 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a>: I have vol 1 in closed-19 library. Vol 2 is a catalogue of locations and you might like to watch your mailboxes. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-05-10T01:57:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-05-09T22:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:57, 10 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks maestro (di color che sanno). I began examining vol.2 on rising at sparrow fart, and finding the emailed copy. As they say in Aussie pubs on such occasions,'nuf ta givva a boffin yobbo the horn', which however, wouldn't be quite appropriate on mother's day (apologies to Ms.H for my congenital vulgarity - especially in the disgusting Franco-Latin Joycean pun in 'con-genital, now that I think of it).<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-05-10T04:19:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-05-10T01:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:19, 10 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DYK_for_Jisr_el-Majami" data-mw-thread-id="h-DYK_for_Jisr_el-Majami-2020-05-17T12:02:00.000Z">DYK for Jisr el-Majami</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=61" title="Edit section: DYK for Jisr el-Majami">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><a href="/wiki/File:Updated_DYK_query.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/40px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="81" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/60px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/80px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="35" data-file-height="71"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> On <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions#17_May_2020" title="Wikipedia:Recent additions">17 May 2020</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know" title="Template:Did you know">Did you know</a> was updated with a fact from the article <a href="/wiki/Jisr_el-Majami" title="Jisr el-Majami">Jisr el-Majami</a>, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Italy helped to renovate <a href="/wiki/Jisr_el-Majami" title="Jisr el-Majami">a bridge</a> between Israel and Jordan? You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (<a href="/wiki/User:Rjanag/Pageview_stats" title="User:Rjanag/Pageview stats">here's how</a>, <a class="external text" href="//tools.wmflabs.org/pageviews?start=2020-05-07&end=2020-05-27&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Jisr_el-Majami">Jisr el-Majami</a>), and it may be added to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Statistics" title="Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics">the statistics page</a> if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know" title="Template talk:Did you know">Did you know talk page</a>. </div> </div> — <a href="/wiki/User:Amakuru" title="User:Amakuru">Amakuru</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amakuru" title="User talk:Amakuru">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Amakuru-2020-05-17T12:02:00.000Z-DYK_for_Jisr_el-Majami" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:02, 17 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="West_Bank_editing" data-mw-thread-id="h-West_Bank_editing-2020-05-23T21:48:00.000Z">West Bank editing</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=62" title="Edit section: West Bank editing">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Since West Bank is not available for editing because of vandalising, and you've edited it several times lately, I said maybe you're the right person to refer to. I'd aprecciate if if you check out the talk page at West Bank, specifically "Replacing or adding new imagery where needed?", and tell me.what you think, It'd be awesome. And you'd also be helping some of my work get through. I'll be contacting some other editors of the article also for a broader opinion. <a href="/wiki/User:SoWhAt249" title="User:SoWhAt249">SoWhAt249</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SoWhAt249" title="User talk:SoWhAt249">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-SoWhAt249-2020-05-23T21:48:00.000Z-West_Bank_editing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:48, 23 May 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:SoWhAt249" title="User:SoWhAt249">User:SoWhAt249</a> <img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-07T23:15:00.000Z-SoWhAt249-2020-05-23T21:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 7 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> Thank you. I hope this won't be causing any problems for you. I can't express how happy I am right now. It took me long to finish the map and now I can finally see it put to good use. I hope to touch up on it when I get a new computer, and start mapping other regions. Again, thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:SoWhAt249" title="User:SoWhAt249">SoWhAt249</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SoWhAt249" title="User talk:SoWhAt249">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-SoWhAt249-2020-06-08T20:46:00.000Z-West_Bank_editing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:46, 8 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_kitten_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_kitten_for_you!-2020-06-02T23:53:00.000Z">A kitten for you!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=63" title="Edit section: A kitten for you!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Red_Kitten_01.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Red_Kitten_01.jpg/150px-Red_Kitten_01.jpg" decoding="async" width="150" height="100" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Red_Kitten_01.jpg/225px-Red_Kitten_01.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a5/Red_Kitten_01.jpg/300px-Red_Kitten_01.jpg 2x" data-file-width="3456" data-file-height="2304"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> Thanks for your very kind help with my edit suggestion regarding the Palestinian localities destroyed in 1948! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-02T23:53:00.000Z-A_kitten_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] I want to update you with some issues. It has been a long time since my last edit suggestion. There are few reasons why. One is that I was really busy too (I'm a student). The second reason is the absord situation in the Hebrew Wikipedia. Most of the editors there simply refuse to write that these villages are Palestinian, and rather simply define them as Arab! Of course some of them are not fond of the use of Khalidi. This absord situation reached its peak yesterday, when somebody translated the <a href="/wiki/Village_files" title="Village files">Village files</a> article and earased (!) all references to Pappé's works. His explanation was that he doesn't approve Pappé's anti-Zionist views. Thank you so much for your help again. You can always ask me for some help if you need (I can help you translate from Hebrew, for example). <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-03T00:05:00.000Z-A_kitten_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a>: ah, kittens! I love cats, thank you!</dd> <dd>Also, don't think everything is "straight sailing" on en.wp, either. We eg had to have a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RfC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RfC">WP:RfC</a> for this: <a href="/wiki/Talk:Kfar_Ahim#RfC:_Arab_vs._Palestinian?" title="Talk:Kfar Ahim">Talk:Kfar Ahim#RfC: Arab vs. Palestinian?</a>. My only advice for he.wp: take it to a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RfC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RfC">WP:RfC</a>: hopefully(?) editors will listen to good arguments.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>One thing you could do, if you edit he.wp, is to translate their history from en.wp to he.wp. When the articles for the Palestinian-Aranb places in Israel were started, they were often copied straight from he.wp, and their history was typically that they were "founded by the Bedouin in the 1920s". It turned out some of them had a 1000 year documented history.. So if you (or someone) could translate the history of say, <a href="/wiki/Rumana,_Israel" title="Rumana, Israel">Rumana, Israel</a>, <a href="/wiki/Tamra,_Jezreel_Valley" title="Tamra, Jezreel Valley">Tamra, Jezreel Valley</a>, <a href="/wiki/Taibe,_Galilee" title="Taibe, Galilee">Taibe, Galilee</a> etc to he.wp: it would be great! (And remove all those unsourced theories of places connected with the Bible, etc)</dd> <dd>Also: lots of present Israel cities have a long pre-<a href="/wiki/Yishuv" title="Yishuv">Yishuv</a> history, which I believe is mostly ignored on he.wp. If someone could add the pre-<a href="/wiki/Yishuv" title="Yishuv">Yishuv</a> history to the he.wp versions of say, <a href="/wiki/Kiryat_Ata" title="Kiryat Ata">Kiryat Ata</a>, <a href="/wiki/Afula" title="Afula">Afula</a>, <a href="/wiki/Merhavia_(kibbutz)" title="Merhavia (kibbutz)">Merhavia (kibbutz)</a>, <a href="/wiki/Petah_Tikva" title="Petah Tikva">Petah Tikva</a>, <a href="/wiki/Beit_HaShita" title="Beit HaShita">Beit HaShita</a> -it would be great!</dd> <dd>Again, thank you for your work! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-03T21:06:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-03T00:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:06, 3 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>[User:Huldra]] thanks for all your suggestions. <dl><dd>I read the discussion in <a href="/wiki/Talk:Kfar_Ahim#RfC:_Arab_vs._Palestinian?" title="Talk:Kfar Ahim">Talk:Kfar Ahim#RfC: Arab vs. Palestinian?</a> and found some good arguments there. At the same time, I'm afraid some editors in Hebrew Wikipedia couldn't care less and just won't change their mind, no matter how your argument is good. See, I can feel how they feel uncomfortable with even mentioning those destroyed localities, and therefore try to find excuses to harm this mentioning. Lately, one that was against Khalidi, offered that we should write in articles about modern Israeli settelments only about Palestinian (or 'Arab' as he wrote) villages that was exactly on the modern settelment's site, and there is a use of its structures. This is how bad, absord and pathetic the situation is.</dd> <dd>Nevertheless, I really like your translation suggestions, and plan to make them when I have some times. Indeed, this part of history simply does not appear in Hebrew Wikipedia in too mant cases. Take for example <a href="/wiki/Kiryat_Ata" title="Kiryat Ata">Kiryat Ata</a> - there is no reference to the long history of the site, and the article just mentioned Kiryat Ata was founded in 1925 on land of Kufritta bought from the "Effendi" (It's worth mentioning that one thing I have noticed is that in Hebrew Wikipedia, many editors really like to mention lands that were bought, but resent any mentioning of the many localities depopulated in 1948 and afterwards...).</dd> <dd>Thanks again for your kind help and suggestions! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T07:28:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-03T21:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:28, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a>: I have been here on en.wp nearly 15 years now, and it has been long, slooooooow work. But I recall that during my first years here, eg someone arguing that <a href="/wiki/Suba,_Jerusalem" title="Suba, Jerusalem">Suba, Jerusalem</a> was empty after the Crusaders until 1948 (apparently that was what the Israeli guide-books said). I don't think anyone here would state that today(?) And the <a href="/wiki/Peki%27in" title="Peki'in">Peki'in</a>-article existed for years, 100% about its Jewish history, 0% about the non-Jewish history, and some though that was perfectly fine, (see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Peki%27in" title="Talk:Peki'in">Talk:Peki'in</a>). And until a year ago <a href="/wiki/Petah_Tikva" title="Petah Tikva">Petah Tikva</a> looked <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Petah_Tikva&oldid=905624619">like this</a>: ie absolutely nothing between the Crusader era and the Jewish settlement.</dd> <dd>Also; the I/P area here on en.wp has been plagued by people with an agenda, and lots of recruiting by pro-Israeli groups (including by the <a href="/wiki/Yesha_Council" title="Yesha Council">Yesha Council</a>) i.o.t edit Wikipedia. I recall one such group, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/CAMERA_lobbying" title="Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/CAMERA lobbying">CAMERA</a>, being advised that "whenever you see something negative about an Arab: start an article about them!" See <a href="/wiki/Category_talk:Palestinian_people" title="Category talk:Palestinian people">Category talk:Palestinian people</a> (I have never heard of any such recruiting from the Palestinian side).</dd> <dd>As for buying land pre-1948; that was (mostly) from absentee landlords, typically Kiryat Ata from the <a href="/wiki/Sursock_family" title="Sursock family">Sursock family</a>.</dd> <dd>The only thing one can do is to "fight" with facts, and good sources (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>). <a href="/wiki/Walid_Khalidi" title="Walid Khalidi">Walid Khalidi</a> is a professor and historian; I don't see that anyone can deny using him as a source.</dd> <dd>If you translate some of the history of the above-mentioned places to the he.wp: then you would be doing a great job, indeed.</dd> <dd>Also: if a place is mentioned in the 1596 census: then that history should definitely be in the article (see <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/HA" title="User:Huldra/HA">User:Huldra/HA</a> for the list)</dd> <dd>Also: if you translate the <a href="/wiki/Template:Palestinian_Arab_villages_depopulated_during_the_1948_Palestinian_exodus" title="Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus">Template:Palestinian Arab villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus</a> to he.wp: then you would be doing a great job: Lots of the "48-articles" (= Palestinian villages which became depopulated in the 1948 war) have articles on he.wp, but that template is not translated. (You can see which languages have a corresponding article by looking at the left hand side; eg <a href="/wiki/Bayt_Mahsir" title="Bayt Mahsir">Bayt Mahsir</a> has an article in ar.wp. he.wp, Polish wp. and Urdu.wp), Anyway, good luck with whatever you do! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-04T21:53:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T07:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Thanks for the suggestions! I looked at your amazing work in Wikipedia, and I just want to deeply thank you for it. The examples you mentioned here are very impressive indeed, for example, and give some hope.</dd> <dd>Right now, the situation in Hebrew Wikipedia is horrible. There is an anti Khalidi lobby there, claiming he is not objective and not a credible source (but using researches done by researchers from the Hagana archive and by other Zionist researchers is objective, of course...). Some use the cricism of <a href="/wiki/Moshe_Brawer" title="Moshe Brawer">Moshe Brawer</a> without really understanding it and the simple facts about this important book. Other just want to delete all edits based on Khalidi, which means earasing (again) the Palestinian history.</dd> <dd>Hopefully things would be better. I do want to make your great edit suggestions in Hebrew.</dd> <dd>Thanks a lot and good luck, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T22:15:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-04T21:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/18px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/27px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/36px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></abbr> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a>: One Brawer-quote about Khalidi has been extensively discussed at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Walid_Khalidi#Dr_Brawer_quote" title="Talk:Walid Khalidi">Talk:Walid_Khalidi#Dr_Brawer_quote</a>; in short: Brawer mis-quoted... Also, I have literally checked hundreds of the sources that Khalidi has used: he is rarely wrong (but see <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Khalidi_%26Petersen" title="User:Huldra/Khalidi &Petersen">User:Huldra/Khalidi &Petersen</a>): in general: he is not wrong more often than, say, <a href="/wiki/Benny_Morris" title="Benny Morris">Benny Morris</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-04T22:31:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T22:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:31, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> Thank you so much!!! Amazing works! I don't know how to say how impressed I am... Keep doing the well-researched work that makes Wikipedia much more rich and reliable :) <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T22:48:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-04T22:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>BTW Is it OK / do you want me to quote what you said and add those link in the Hebrew Wikipedia discussion? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T22:50:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-04T22:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:50, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a>: off course you can use them (Btw, this page is "watched" <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://xtools.wmflabs.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Huldra">by 148 editors</a>: anything I (or anyone else(!) writes here is hardly a secret <abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/18px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/27px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/36px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></abbr>) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-04T22:56:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T22:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:56, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Great, and thank you so much again! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T23:14:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-04T22:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:14, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a> Btw: I see a huge difference between the mistakes that Khalidi (or Morris) have made vs the mistake that Brawer did: I have never seen Khalidi make a deliberate mistake, (eg using the 1596 data on <a href="/wiki/Kafr_%27Ana" title="Kafr 'Ana">Kafr 'Ana</a> from <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/HA#p.119" title="User:Huldra/HA">p.119</a>, instead of using the correct data on <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/HA#p.156" title="User:Huldra/HA">p. 156</a>, or mixing up the SWP-info (see <a href="/wiki/Talk:Hadatha" title="Talk:Hadatha">Talk:Hadatha</a>): it makes no sense to say that those mistakes were deliberate. The same with <a href="/wiki/Benny_Morris" title="Benny Morris">Benny Morris</a> (see eg <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Morris2-list" title="User:Huldra/Morris2-list">s#127</a>): again: I don't for a second believe that was a deliberate mistake from Morris). But what Brawer did ("doctoring" the quote from the <a href="/wiki/Village_Statistics,_1945" title="Village Statistics, 1945">1945 statistics</a>) must have been deliberate, :-( <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-04T23:35:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-04T23:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:35, 4 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for letting me know! This is very severe (and sad) indeed. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-05T00:15:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-04T23:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:15, 5 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Hi again, I saw a discussion in your talk page about al-Ma'in and the exhibition about it. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://tv.social.org.il/en/exhibition-from-here-and-there">Here</a> you could find an interesting video about the exhibition (I also recommend this channel in general). <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-05T01:11:00.000Z-A_kitten_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:11, 5 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> I invite you to see the hysteria your info caused among some history deniers in the Hebrew Wikipedia. Very funny and sad at the same time (you could use automatic translation by Google, and I would love to translate you anything you need - it is the last discussion in the forum): <a class="external free" href="https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%95%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94:%D7%9E%D7%96%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9F#%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%93_%D7%97%27%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%93%D7%99_%E2%80%93_%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91_%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A0%D7%94%2C_%D7%90%D7%95_%D7%9B%D7%99%D7%A6%D7%93_%D7%93%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%A7%D7%93%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%95%D7%92%D7%96%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A1%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%95">https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%95%D7%99%D7%A7%D7%99%D7%A4%D7%93%D7%99%D7%94:%D7%9E%D7%96%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%9F#%D7%95%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%93_%D7%97%27%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%99%D7%93%D7%99_%E2%80%93_%D7%9B%D7%AA%D7%91_%D7%94%D7%92%D7%A0%D7%94%2C_%D7%90%D7%95_%D7%9B%D7%99%D7%A6%D7%93_%D7%93%D7%A2%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%A7%D7%93%D7%95%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%95%D7%92%D7%96%D7%A2%D7%A0%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%9E%D7%A1%D7%9E%D7%90%D7%95%D7%AA_%D7%90%D7%AA_%D7%A2%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%99%D7%A0%D7%95</a> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-05T14:06:00.000Z-A_kitten_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a>: the thing is; you can easily spend nearly 100% of your time in the I/P area just discussing, BUT: if you do: You will not get anything done.</dd> <dd>Having Khalidi as a source is obviously a case worth fighting for, but please don't get too distracted by "noice" (all <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PA">WP:PA</a>, etc)</dd> <dd>As for having other sources about whose land settlements were build on: we have the list in the start of the Morris 2004 book, see <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Morris2-list" title="User:Huldra/Morris2-list">User:Huldra/Morris2-list</a>. BUT: Morris only mention which former Palestinian village was near, he doesn't look at the jurisdiction, ie, what village the land actually belonged to, For that you need Khalidi. (Often they agree; the nearest village also had the jurisdiction: those cases should be the easy ones,) Good luck! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-05T23:12:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-05T14:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:12, 5 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Thanks <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a>! You are so right... People there have nothing to say, so they started an Ad hominem attack against us. It really couldn't be more pathetic. One even blamed us we are the same person because we edited <a href="/wiki/Beit_Zayit" title="Beit Zayit">Beit Zayit</a> on the same day (both in Hebrew and English Wikipedia). XD Of course he didn't bother to check the talk page and see my requset there. Anyway, there was exactly 0% reference in their comments to the content in my message, meaning all the material you kindly gave me.</dd> <dd>Now they are trying to raise a proposal, that we should only mention localities built exactly on the village site, and which there is a current use of facilities belonged to the depopulated village. This is how they are afraid of mentioning those depopulated villages.</dd> <dd>Let us hope for more reasonable days. I want to deeply thank you for all your help. I really do feel that I found a friend and an ally here. In any way I plan to check all the localities in Khalidi's book, and will notify anytime I see info not mentioned in Wikipedia.</dd> <dd>Best regards and keep doing your simply amazing work, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-05T23:34:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-05T23:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:34, 5 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a>: anyone looking for facts (and not propaganda) has many allies on en.wp (unfortunately, those looking for propaganda also have some :-( ). Anyway, it would be very strange indeed, if he.wp does not allow Khalidi as a source: any academic in the English world dealing with these issues use him as a source. Including Benny Morris and Andrew Petersen, of course, So what academics in the English world use, is not good enough for he.wp? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-06T23:49:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-05T23:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:49, 6 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I think some of the more serious ones in he.wp understand that he's a reliable source (but I'm not sure they are the majority...). One of the users tried to claim that "Khalidi is not a well known academic and thus his research should be overlooked" (yea, I know: WTF?). He just couldn't care less that the reality is completely different, and this caused endless discussions with no point. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-07T00:17:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-06T23:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:17, 7 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Sorry for butting in. To attempt to invalidate Khalidi for his (rarely) errant documentation is, historically, rather comical. The massive effort by the Palestinian diaspora in Lebanon to compile and conserve detailed documentation on what actually happened in the nakba was systematically looted by Israel itself, when not physically destroyed in several 'operations' designed to that end. In the 1982 invasion of Lebanon alone, a large portion of the archive of the <a href="/wiki/Institute_for_Palestine_Studies" title="Institute for Palestine Studies">Institute for Palestine Studies</a> -microfilms, manuscripts and some 25,000 volumes -was trucked back to Israel (as on other occasions, much of the material in Jerusalem and other cities and towns in Palestine was sacked or simply destroyed). The working conditions of people like Khalidi and several outstanding local historians (like <a href="/wiki/Aref_al-Aref" title="Aref al-Aref">Aref al-Aref</a>) remind me of that scene in <a href="/wiki/Clear_and_Present_Danger_(film)" title="Clear and Present Danger (film)">Clear and Present Danger</a> where Harrison Ford locks into Ritter's computer and has to race against evaporative time when, while printing out the damning evidence there, he sees it all disappearing as Ritter in the next room in the White House presses the 'delete all' button. An enormous amount of the truth on the ground is, therefore, in Israeli archives, under a 'not accessible' for several decades ban. Complaints should be laid there, not on the Khalidis of this world. In any case, if only there were time, one could write quite a substantial wiki article on the systematic looting or destruction of Palestinian documentation.</dd> <dd>Back to work. I am the worst offender here in letting my time for actually factual editing be eroded by talk page necessities or distractions. As Huldra says, alluding to the old dictum, der Teufel steckt im Detail, one should just focus on the patient accumulation of empirical details, a practice of which she is perhaps the most outstanding exponent in Wikipedia.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-07T08:44:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-05T14:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:44, 7 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a> and thank you very much for your comment! I 100% agree with you. The all discussion about Khalidi, an excellent historian and a fellow of the <a href="/wiki/American_Academy_of_Arts_and_Sciences" title="American Academy of Arts and Sciences">American Academy of Arts and Sciences</a> which defines him as "one of the most prominent and influential Palestinian intellectuals of the modern era" (see <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.amacad.org/person/walid-ahmad-khalidi">here</a>) could not be more pathetic (you should have read the discussion. Long story short, when there are no more arguments, harsh and ugly ad hominem accusations arise). Regarding what you said about Lebanon, I highly recommend watching the film Looted and Hidden - Palestinian Archives in Israel by Rona Sela (she also wrote a very interesting book about this issue, but unfortuntely it's only in Hebrew. But anyway you could find some interesting materials in her website). In <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.ronasela.com/en/details.asp?listid=81">this link</a> you could find two links to the movie, one with English captions (the film is in English anyway), and other with Hebrew and Arabic captions. And finally, the advice given by Huldra is always the best. One cannot deny the simple facts.</dd> <dd>Thanks a lot and best regards, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-07T20:58:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-07T08:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:58, 7 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a>: Yeah, I have seen some good work from Rona Sela.</dd> <dd>And a lot could be said about the reliability of certain "scholarship" in the I/P area (see eg note#38 in <a href="/wiki/Tell_es-Safi" title="Tell es-Safi">Tell es-Safi</a>: Avraham Ayalon is still apparently <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a> on wikipedia)</dd> <dd>I have been less than impressed with some editors on he.wp before. I once logged in, getting several alerts from <a href="/wiki/Talk:Khirba" title="Talk:Khirba">Talk:Khirba</a>. Apparently someone over at he.wp had mentioned that I had written the article <a href="/wiki/Khirba" class="mw-redirect" title="Khirba">Khirba</a>, immediately several editors parroted that on <a href="/wiki/Talk:Khirba" title="Talk:Khirba">Talk:Khirba</a>, without even checking that I had ever edited the article(!) (I hadn't). Lol!</dd> <dd>BUT, in order to have some progress on he.wp: I would advice you to collect all the (Israeli and other) scholars who used/reference Khalidi's 1992 work. (You can eg search books.google.com for "Khalidi" "all that remains", or use <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://scholar.google.com">https://scholar.google.com</a> (4,430 hits for Walid Khalidi). If you have a list of scholars who use his work: I don't see how he.wp could deny using him (Unless they wilfully want to remain ignorant.) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-07T23:41:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-07T20:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:41, 7 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> Haha I have already seen this ridiculous talk in <a href="/wiki/Talk:Khirba" title="Talk:Khirba">Talk:Khirba</a> (someone mentioned it there), it was a lot of entertainment! Excuse me, but this is just a pure example of idiocy. Just to let you know how insane the situation in he.wp is, right now there is a vote there wether the Kahanist party of <a href="/wiki/Otzma_Yehudit" title="Otzma Yehudit">Otzma Yehudit</a> should be defined as radical/extreme right-wing party, or just as a right-wing party, which is as it is defined now.</dd> <dd>Regarding Google Scholar, I tried but nobody listens. One (the most persistent one - it turns out that even the praises of the <a href="/wiki/American_Academy_of_Arts_and_Sciences" title="American Academy of Arts and Sciences">American Academy of Arts and Sciences</a>, which Khalidi is one of its fellows, are not enough for him! Even when somebody quoted Israeli historian <a href="/wiki/Yoav_Gelber" title="Yoav Gelber">Yoav Gelber</a> who wrote in one of his book that Khalidi is an important researcher, he prefered to ignore him) even tried to use it against Khalidi, claiming he has no profile there and thus is a no-one (you see what kind of arguments I have to deal with?). He also claimed that Khalidi is not a professor (as far as I know he was professor of Political Studies at the American university of Beirut) and thus no-one (and also, what kind of stupid argument it is? Khalidi worked in the world's most prestigious univesites, and is a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences!). It's worth mentioning that this guy has no problem to use articles done by researchers from the <a href="/wiki/Hagana" class="mw-redirect" title="Hagana">Hagana</a> archive whose academic background is completely unclear.</dd> <dd>To sum up to this point my experience with he.wp and overall with the Israeli society, I can tell you clearly that the vast majority of people prefer to be ignorant regarding those depopulated localities - and do anything so people will not even know they existed (see Israel's Nakba law for example). Very sad and pathetic indeed.</dd> <dd>Wish you all the best, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-08T00:38:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-07T23:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Don't worry about arguing with obtusity. It is pointless. Unfortunately, most things on Wikipedia are 'resolved' through a numbers game, not, as policy would prefer, through the strength of arguments based on high quality academic sources. At some point one musty grasp that and, rather than allow one's passion for facts to suffer the attrition of talking to people who feign to be deaf (we say here fare orecchie da mercante (behave with a trader's ear) or fare l'indiano(act like an Indian). It is actually a studied technique, to get the serious editor to waste so much time in useless attempts at logical persuasion, that despair or abandoning the encyclopedia will be a result. Surrender, then? No. Really good editing doesn't require one to assume a wiki-focused lifestyle, day in day out. It proves itself by the quiet collection of indubitable, impeccably sourced details over time (one gets an excellent personal education as payback) so that, months or even years down the track, one can present a key edit in such a way that reverting it blindly would be a technical breach. Zero for one has taken several years to make sure a prospective edit he has in mind is anchored so strongly it cannot be controverted. respect your own time when engaged with the project because most people, as generally in life, will not. Forgive my preaching. It's just a useful poker tip.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-08T06:48:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-08T00:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:48, 8 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a>, you should not be sorry for nothing. I agree with the essence of what you said. In the end, when your arguments are well based, only a fool or a person who intentionally want to be ignorant, could deny them. We should filter all the negative users who try to harm, and focus on creating good, well researched articles. By looking on the work done by both you and Huldra, I can tell you do great job. :)</dd> <dd>Best wishes, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-08T19:27:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-08T06:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:27, 8 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan149&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan149 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan149</a> There is an expression: "You can lead the horse to the water, but you cannot make it drink". If they don't accept Khalidi: that is he.wp loss, not Khalidi's. If so, you could perhaps start with the pre-Yishuv history of the places I mentioned above? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-08T20:34:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-08T19:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:34, 8 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> After today's discussion, it was clearly shown that Khalidi is a great and respected researcher (your advices were very good, btw), and more users supported using Khalidi. It was also shown how hypocritical are the ones against using Khalidi but in favor of using reserachers from the Hagana archive for example, whose academic background is completely unclear. I plan to use both Khalidi and Morris in my future edits, each one whenever appropriate. Also, I definitely plan to make you excellent edit suggestions when I have more time. Best, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-08T21:54:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-08T20:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">User:Bustan1498</a>: to those editors who reject Khalidi as a source: ask them if they would accept Avraham Ayalon (1963): "The Givati Brigade Opposite the Egyptian Invader"? (It is in Hebrew). Also read <a href="/wiki/Tell_es-Safi" title="Tell es-Safi">Tell es-Safi</a> and Morris, 2004, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=uM_kFX6edX8C&pg=PA436">436</a>, and note#127, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.google.com/books?id=uM_kFX6edX8C&pg=PA456">456</a>: Ayalon used a falsified (or as Morris puts it: "laundered") version of the expulsion order. The order said "to destroy, to kill and to expel [lehashmid, leharog, u´legaresh] refugees encamped in the area, in order to prevent enemy infiltration from the east to this important position." Ayalon (according to Morris) said only that the order said "to destroy" (ie he censored out "to kill and to expel"). I have never, ever found anything like this in Khalidi -or Morris. And I assume neither has anyone else: AFAIK both have had their work scrutinised: if there had been <s>falsifications</s> eh, "laundering" like that: it would have been noticed, and Khalidi or Morris would have been <a href="/wiki/Hanged,_drawn_and_quartered" title="Hanged, drawn and quartered">Hanged, drawn and quartered</a> (metaphorically speaking) <abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/18px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/27px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/36px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></abbr> <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-08T23:01:00.000Z-Bustan1498-2020-06-08T21:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:01, 8 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> Once again thank you! This is a clear example of a shameful historical distortion. If there is one conclusion I have, is as following: Allways fight with facts. Once again, keep doing the great job - your contributions are invaluable. Best regards, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Bustan1498&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Bustan1498 (page does not exist)">Bustan1498</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bustan1498" title="User talk:Bustan1498">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bustan1498-2020-06-08T23:19:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-08T23:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:19, 8 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Random_query" data-mw-thread-id="h-Random_query-2020-06-09T02:01:00.000Z">Random query</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=64" title="Edit section: Random query">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/File:Cliff_side_ruins_-_panoramio.jpg" title="File:Cliff side ruins - panoramio.jpg">File:Cliff side ruins - panoramio.jpg</a>. Any idea on the ID or location of this ruin? Looks like a maqam but the photo caption doesn’t indicate a precise location. There are a few other pictures in the Commons category of Safed that look old village ruins. —<a href="/wiki/User:Al_Ameer_son" title="User:Al Ameer son">Al Ameer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Al_Ameer_son" title="User talk:Al Ameer son">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Al_Ameer_son-2020-06-09T02:01:00.000Z-Random_query" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:01, 9 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Al_Ameer_son" title="User:Al Ameer son">Al Ameer son</a>: A precise location is given on the commons page, just to the SW of Safed. Go <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://amudanan.co.il/?lon=35.478802&lat=32.951649">here</a>. There is a description that I can't read:</dd></dl> שיח' כויס נ.צ. 761870 / 245091 גובה: 394 שיח כּוָּויֵיס Kawayes, עוברת ל"כובס". במקום קבר שיח' עם בנייה בת מאות שנים בלבד. לצד הקבר עץ ברוש גדול. מהמקום נוף יפהפה לאפיק נחל עמוד. 1942 map says tomb for "Esh Sh. Kuweiyis". <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-06-09T02:21:00.000Z-Random_query" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:21, 9 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>The translation of the Hebrew reads as follows: "Sheikh Kawayes, transitioned to Koves (in Hebrew). In the place there is the tomb of a Sheikh with a structure that is only a few hundred years old. Adjacent to the tomb there is a large cypress tree. From this place there is a beautiful view of the watercourse Wadi (Nahal) 'Amud."(END QUOTE).<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2020-06-09T02:36:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-06-09T02:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:36, 9 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Al_Ameer_son" title="User:Al Ameer son">User:Al Ameer son</a>: Excellent find! It should go into the <a href="/wiki/Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta" title="Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta">Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta</a>-article (it is SW of the village site). See pictures at <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.zochrot.org/en/village/49122">al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta</a>, Zochrot, and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.palestineremembered.com/Safad/al-Zahiriyya-al-Tahta/index.html">Pal.rem</a>. Incidentally, that is one articles I was "saving up" for a DYK when Tiamut returned, sigh, that might take some time (sigh, again). It is a 1596-village, should we expand it now?? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-09T20:36:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-06-09T02:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:36, 9 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero0000</a>:@<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a>:@<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>: Thanks to all for helping identify this site. Is Sheikh Kawayes (Kuweiyis, Kuwayis) an alternative name for the village or is it the name of the person to whom the maqam was dedicated? And yes Huldra, let’s get to work on expansion. <s>I see from your resources pages that in addition to the 16th-century Ottoman records, it’s mentioned in the SWP, but not by Guérin?</s> Never mind I see now that you’ve already gathered an impressive list of sources in the article itself. I’ll see what else I could find. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Al_Ameer_son" title="User:Al Ameer son">Al Ameer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Al_Ameer_son" title="User talk:Al Ameer son">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Al_Ameer_son-2020-06-10T01:14:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-09T20:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:14, 10 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Al_Ameer_son" title="User:Al Ameer son">Al Ameer son</a>: I cannot see that it was an alternative name, it is noted on SWP map 4, SSW of the village site, as Sheikh el Kuweiyis, "the pretty <a href="/wiki/Sheikh" title="Sheikh">sheikh</a>" (Sh. 4, Pf) Palmer, 1881, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/stream/surveyofwesternp00conduoft#page/93/mode/1up">93</a>. (Hey, that would make a nice DYK-"hook"!) (I'll start expanding as soon as I have cleaned up some of my Guerin-mess), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-10T22:54:00.000Z-Al_Ameer_son-2020-06-10T01:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:54, 10 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="book_of_Israeli_place_names" data-mw-thread-id="h-book_of_Israeli_place_names-2020-06-11T04:58:00.000Z">book of Israeli place names</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=65" title="Edit section: book of Israeli place names">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">Onceinawhile</a>: To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a>: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://books.googleusercontent.com/books/content?req=AKW5QacyvwbF55-BqoH6DOYqsS-BCd2Xg5G2s1nxZODO7DU8Hd_zBZRvogoITLObiwuzhArs1O4wHvKVBLaBJv8LbSFyJYoqcld4bS888SbIwlZgb3fTwksJDOTl91Yv-cUneJglapdnN-nxJAQFa0THuHL4ZnB63tHsECUuZEYJ_bdAJMVZeKdJXfFBR8Ua3GNI_0ri71yxDtDpWXG0ggVR9Ecd15lsJfzsIRKldPapxBvjgIfX6atPhMfagdtqizoQ-YkfTbNS3lKsigULbTHcF11qe4Sjpw">This book</a> may help to identity locations. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-06-11T04:58:00.000Z-book_of_Israeli_place_names" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:58, 11 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, also for the help with the village yesterday. The link doesn't work for me. The objection was I was not allowed to go there. Go figure (no don't. I'm sure Once will sort it out). <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-11T11:37:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-06-11T04:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:37, 11 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sending by email. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-06-11T13:00:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-11T11:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:00, 11 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Pillage_of_Ein_Gedi" data-mw-thread-id="h-Pillage_of_Ein_Gedi-2020-06-19T17:43:00.000Z">Pillage of Ein Gedi</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=66" title="Edit section: Pillage of Ein Gedi">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I don't remember editing that page. Weird. Anyways, yes your reversion is correct. — <a href="/wiki/User:Mr._Guye" title="User:Mr. Guye">Mr. Guye</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mr._Guye" title="User talk:Mr. Guye">talk</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mr._Guye" title="Special:Contributions/Mr. Guye">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Mr._Guye-2020-06-19T17:43:00.000Z-Pillage_of_Ein_Gedi" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:43, 19 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Addendum that edit was over a year ago, so I guess it makes sense that I don't remember. — <a href="/wiki/User:Mr._Guye" title="User:Mr. Guye">Mr. Guye</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mr._Guye" title="User talk:Mr. Guye">talk</a>) (<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Mr._Guye" title="Special:Contributions/Mr. Guye">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Mr._Guye-2020-06-19T17:45:00.000Z-Mr._Guye-2020-06-19T17:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:45, 19 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Arminden" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arminden-2020-06-25T21:38:00.000Z">Arminden</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=67" title="Edit section: Arminden">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I don't think Arminden has ever had the time, to his good fortune, to immerse himself in the intricacies of sockpuppetry there. They're very much focused on the content, measured against the scholarship. Cheers ( note here because I'm banned at AE for life) <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-25T21:38:00.000Z-Arminden" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 25 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a>: I suspect you are right, but this is the I/P area; I don't think any of us have the luxury of totally ignoring everything outside our (narrow) range of interest, (If we had: I for sure would gladly ignore, say all the editing-rules given in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPIA4" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPIA4">WP:ARBPIA4</a> :) ), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-25T21:50:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-25T21:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 25 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I have that 'luxury!. I've never read that page. I read the 5 pillars 15 years and haven't read a single other policy or subpage yet, except when I click on a dubious editor's citation of some wiki subsubsection to see if my leg is being pulled (can a leg be blindsided). I know this is utterly irresponsible, but it's just an infantile streak too strongly rooted in me from the year dot - if anyone told me as a child how to do something, I'd drop what I was doing till they went away, and then, when my autistic autonomy was restored by their absence, rebegin, figuring out my way of doing it. Bad, bad, but at least I learnt to read that way before going to primary school.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-26T06:02:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-25T21:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:02, 26 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a>: You remind me of a joke I like to tell, though if you ever owned a dog you will know that it is perfectly true: "A complete summary of dog morality is 'do the right thing if a human is watching'". Before you jump on me for comparing you to a dog, I'll mention that I love dogs. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-06-26T06:46:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-26T06:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:46, 26 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>No probs, chief. Our dog Rex 55 years ago would lower its ears, look guilty and walk to the door if, in the laxity of old age, it happened to fart. But I couldn't help being reminded of an analysis I once did of the Confucian concept of shèndú 慎獨. In the <a href="/wiki/Great_Learning" title="Great Learning">Great Learning</a> classic, it is stated that,'the superior man must be watchful over himself when he is alone.' ('superior man' as a translation of jūnzǐ 君子, is not what it looks like in English, but no time for details except that it means someone who by long training and study can execute a public role with probity). This utterance affords a counter-example to the idea that people raised in shame cultures can't feel guilt - an inner sense of wrongdoing independent of outside eyes- since here acting properly is wholly detached from being directly observed by others. One can feel shame even if no one else has the slightest inkling of some wholly private transgression one might engage in (not only solitary vice!). What is interesting is that <a href="/wiki/Judah_bar_Ezekiel" title="Judah bar Ezekiel">Judah bar Ezekiel</a> pronounced that 'Wherever the sages have forbidden (an action) because of appearances marit ayin(i.e., how it might be perceived in pubic, it also) is forbidden even in the innermost chambers (i.e., in strictest privacy).' (Beitza 9a) cited Ronald L. Eisenberg, Essential Figures in the Talmud, <a href="/wiki/Rowman_%26_Littlefield_Publishers" class="mw-redirect" title="Rowman & Littlefield Publishers"> Jason Aronson</a> New York 2013 p.144. Unfortunately <a href="/wiki/Mishnah" title="Mishnah">mishnayot</a> in the Palestinian Talmud weren't happy with it, and rejected the teaching. <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-26T08:29:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-06-26T06:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:29, 26 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Actually, the Palestinian Talmud (aka <a href="/wiki/Jerusalem_Talmud" title="Jerusalem Talmud">Jerusalem Talmud</a>) would agree with that teaching found in the <a href="/wiki/Babylonian_Talmud" class="mw-redirect" title="Babylonian Talmud">Babylonian Talmud</a>, viz. "Wherever the Sages have prohibited a thing because of 'appearance sake,' even behind closed doors (lit. in chambers within chambers) it is still prohibited." [Babylonian Talmud, Betza 9a] = Hebrew: כל מקום שאסרו חכמים מפני מראית העין אפילו בחדרי חדרים אסור, since this rabbinic teaching is derived from a biblical verse that states: "...and you shall be guiltless before the Lord and before Israel" (Numbers 32:22), meaning, we are not permitted to do anything that makes others suspect us of wrongdoing. "Chillul Hashem" (profaning God's name) is its antithesis. Jews are enjoined not to do anything that might be construed by onlookers as inconsistent with our renown as representatives of God's Divine law. The Jerusalem Talmud, I would think, agrees wholly with this notion. Still, even the Babylonian Talmud seems to acknowledge that there is a dispute over the matter where no wrongdong is done at all by that person, and neither is he being watched by others, that it is not necessary for that person to take such extreme measures of propriety for propriety's sake.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2020-06-26T15:40:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-26T08:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:40, 26 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>My remark came from a secondary source, David, and I don't think you have grasped the distinction on which my observation is based implicitly. Rabbis frequently dispute(d) among themselves and still do, as to the 'correct' interpretation of scripture. After <a href="/wiki/Ruth_Benedict" title="Ruth Benedict">Ruth Benedict</a>, the distinction between a <a href="/wiki/Shame_culture" class="mw-redirect" title="Shame culture">shame culture</a> and a <a href="/wiki/Guilt_culture" class="mw-redirect" title="Guilt culture">guilt culture</a> became a major theme of anthropology. This distinction tended to be eurocentric, but proved heuristically useful in evaluating to what degree any culture's socializing patterns conduce to internal self-regulation (guilt), and in what measure, morality remained closely bound up with social censure, fear of others (shame). You can't let a leg into classical Greece, or Rome, without grasping how important the pending menace of 'being shamed' and of 'honour codes' was to those societies. The same is true of Levantine, West Asian polities, Palestine included. Shame and honour are, in numerous cultures, linked to humiliation (2 Samuel 19:3 uses כָּלַם of people's feelings after the victory that led to Absalom's death, i.e. a public sentiment, because David himself was 'ashamed', and felt compelled to mourn.)</dd> <dd>When Christ, as a Jew, is subject to a test to see whether he will honour the Mosaic code that compels the stoning of a women caught in adultery,he creates a dilemma for his fellow Jews by saying that only he among the crowd who is 'sinless' (ἀναμάρτητος) should 'cast the first stone.' (John 8:7) This means that, for him, we are to assume that notwithstanding the burden of the law, what determines judgment should not be a mechanical application of a received punishment careless of context, but the conscience of those who apply it. A person who has mentally whored after women, though not known publicly to fornicate, cannot lapidate a woman convicted of adultery. For to do so, someone who is externally pious, but entertains lascivious desires, is a hypocrite, and cannot therefore be said to be faithful to the Mosaic covenant. That was a key point of contention between Jewish paleo-Christians and the 'Pharisees' and one reason why that word has a pejorative meaning in modern languages. This famous scene disrupts antiquity, because it makes 'guilt' (qua inner sense of sin) take pride of place over 'shame' (qua doing what everyone does, or what is expected of one). And this point, the psychology of sin and its collateral effects on public and private manners, is precisely what another Jew some centuries afterwards, <a href="/wiki/Judah_bar_Ezekiel" title="Judah bar Ezekiel">Judah bar Ezekiel</a>, was concerned with.(Perhaps this reflects a meditation on points made by Christianizing Jews of his acquaintance, as was often the case, even though that sect might not be mentioned, as modern scholarship allows) There is no virtue in merely appearing to scrupulously observe halakha, and maintain 'face' before you co-religionists: the virtue emerges when that observance is reflexive, carried out also when absolutely no one can be aware that you, in your heart of hearts, suffer from temptations to transgress.</dd> <dd>Citing from Numbers 32:22 doesn't help. The word you translate the original with, 'guiltless', prejudices the issue: it is 'נְקִיִּ֛ים, 'clean of, free of' (sin), before (i.e., in their sight) the Lord and the people (of the covenant of God and Israel) if you follow his command, he says, and conquer Canaan, your sentiments won't be blemished. That is, you will be perceived as 'blameless' since you honoured an oath to God and his people (God is watching you, and your fellow tribesmen are also). This reflects a shame culture, where, if a public covenant is broken, the transgressor is humiliated. What you did will be known, and this induces a sense of 'sin', a word in early cultures that does not necessarily connote 'guilt' in the post-Kantian sense.</dd> <dd>A lay conception always looks more broadly, in handling concepts, than a religious approach tends to do. It casts the net wide to see how different cultures approach common problems, as I did in comparing the Chinese concept to that associated with one rabbi in the Talmud. A religious approach tends just to look at the internal, closed canon of traditional texts, and tries to sort out incongruencies, or differences, but reasoning towards some generic principle in a third-level synthesis. As someone raised in a religious culture, who found too many internal contradictions, and bossy authority prevailing, I found that the secular comparativist approach is far more illuminating. If I want to understand a passage in the Tanakh, I don't just examine the internal chain of tradition harnessed to it (believers and teachers of the belief system talking only among themselves, with one cultural mindset), but look at the words used, the concepts developed, over as many other cultures as I can familiarize myself with, esp. in this case, all of the evidence from similar semitic societies, to clarify what a key word like 'shame' or 'honour' or 'guilt' meant to those who actually lived in that time and its context. What people within it thought a thousand years later is interesting, but rarely historically accurate.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-26T17:33:00.000Z-Davidbena-2020-06-26T15:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 26 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>First, I love the way that you diacritically look at things. You seem to have a natural forte for doing so, which, at many times, can help you see things more objectively, if not spot on. Yeshar koach!!! We need more people with critical demeanors, as you have, without of course being excessive in that quality. Without sounding sanctimonious, Hebrew cannot always be translated verbatim, as there are idioms used in the Hebrew language, while sometimes one word used in the Hebrew language is best explained by another word in the English language, based on its underlying meaning (e.g. והייתם נקיים), which has nothing to do with "bodily cleanliness," but a condition of non-suspicion and of being guiltless or blameless. As for the "secondary source" which you quoted, I understand you. Still, on Talk Pages, I would think, you could easily make use of a primary source without jeopardizing your standing, especially when a secondary source may have caused you to err. Look at the Jerusalem Talmud (Shekalim 3:2 [8a]), where it agrees with the Babylonian Talmud (Yoma 38a). Both speak about not doing anything that may arouse the suspicions of others, citing Numbers 32:22. Anyway, you are right to be broad minded and not to limit yourself to one, narrow source. Be well.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2020-06-28T09:26:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-26T17:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:26, 28 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Hebrew, it was often said, was the Adamic vernacular. There is a very good book on this by <a href="/wiki/George_Steiner" title="George Steiner">George Steiner</a>, "After Babel(1976). But, as scholars wrote down the 6,000 surviving languages, and developed comparative linguistics, the characteristics we associated with one language, or culture, as distinctive, stopped being so. There's was good joke about this that circulated in the 1920s:</dd> <dd><blockquote>‘Five men of five nations. . went elephant hunting in Africa, each of whom wrote about upon his return. The Englishman called his book ‘The elephant, his life and habits’; the Frenchman, ‘Étude sur l’éléphant et ses amours’; the American, ‘In Favor of Bigger and Better Elephants’; the German, ‘The Metaphysics and World Weariness of the elephant’; the Pole, ‘The elephant and the Polish Question’.’ Cited thus in Geoffrey Wolff, Black Sun: The Brief Transit and Violent Eclipse of Harry Crosby, Random House, New York, 1976 p.12</blockquote></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Nitobe_Inaz%C5%8D" title="Nitobe Inazō">Nitobe Inazō</a>, a Japanese scholar of distinction, lecturing in the US a decade later, adapted this to make a point about Japan. A Japanese in such a group would write about:</dd> <dd>‘<blockquote>The duties and domestication of the elephant’ <a href="/wiki/Ronald_Dore" class="mw-redirect" title="Ronald Dore">Ronald Dore</a>, Taking Japan Seriously, <a href="/wiki/Athlone_Press" class="mw-redirect" title="Athlone Press">Athlone Press</a>, London 1987 p.182</blockquote></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/Uri_Avnery" title="Uri Avnery">Uri Avnery</a> gave a different Jewish spin on this. The version he recounted later runs:</dd> <dd><blockquote>‘That reminds me of the German, the Frenchman, the Englishman and the Jew who decided to write about elephants. The German goes to Africa, returns after ten years and composes a five-volume tome: "A Foreword to a General Introduction to the Origins of the African Elephant". The Frenchman comes back after half a year and writes a slim and elegant volume: "The Love Life of Elephants". The Englishman returns after a week and produces a booklet: "How to Hunt Elephants". The Jew stays at home and writes an essay about "the Elephant and the Jewish Question". ’ <a href="/wiki/Uri_Avnery" title="Uri Avnery">Uri Avnery</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.counterpunch.org/2008/11/03/obama-and-the-order-of-the-optimists/">'Obama and the Order of the Optimists’</a>, <a href="/wiki/Counterpunch" class="mw-disambig" title="Counterpunch">Counterpunch</a> November 3,2008</blockquote></dd> <dd>You see, just from this small selection, everyone is using the same story but spinning it one way or another to put forward their notion of what is distinctive about their own people compared to others. None of these stereotypes is valid, though this doesn't ruin the fun.</dd> <dd>So to reply to your point. Yes, 'Hebrew cannot always be translated verbatim,' and neither can any other language, sacred or otherwise. Perhaps a thousands languages even had a sacred subset - a secret language only the initiated men could use among themselves, like the fish language (<a href="/wiki/Damin" title="Damin">Damin</a>) of the <a href="/wiki/Lardil_people" title="Lardil people">Lardil people</a>. In any case, in philology, there are two sides to the coin, when you try to work out what another word means in an old language. One is internal inference from existing usage. The other is to examine the evidence from other languages in the same general group. The most extraordinary example I witnessed of this was when at question time, <a href="/wiki/Cyrus_Gordon" class="mw-redirect" title="Cyrus Gordon">Cyrus Gordon</a> and a Haredi rabbi spoke for 2 minutes, in an exchange that consisted solely of chapter and verse quotations in the Tanakh. 'True, prof., at Numbers ch.verse.. it means this, however, in Exodus to the contrary (chapter verse) we have a difference'.'Quite true,my friend, but Exodus c/v can't be understood except in terms of Deuternomy c/v...' In the end, Gordon, well, I wouldn't blemish my memory of that wonderfully erudite rabbi and his outstanding memory, by saying Gordon won the argument, but he did show that the word in question had reflexes in north-western Semitic, and <a href="/wiki/Ugaritic" title="Ugaritic">Ugaritic</a>, and that the reconstruction of the proto-form of the word from the recently excavated Ugaritic records threw much light on otherwise obscure uses of its reflexes in the <a href="/wiki/Lashon_Hakodesh" title="Lashon Hakodesh">lashon hakodesh</a>, light which could not emerge from simply using the internal infra-Hebraic texts and commentaries. One objective reason why this method is surer is commonsensical.</dd> <dd>The scribes who wrote down these stories were often masters of several languages, including <a href="/wiki/Akkadian_language" title="Akkadian language">Akkadian</a>. Many obscure words in the Tanakh suddenly assume a new meaning if we grasp them as part of a hitherto unknown broader semitic sprachfeld (See my section on Esther's name). This is true not only of Hebrew. Many terms in classical Greek have 'etymologies' linking them to other Greek words, but we now know that they were borrowed from utterly different languages. Patrocles is Akhilles's therápōn (warrior companion). Someone eventually thought that it might be a borrowing from Hittite tarpan-. That made the sun blaze on the Iliad, for the Hittite word means 'ritual substitute', and this sense fits the fact that in that story, Patroklus is mistaken for Akhilles and 'dies in his place. Cadmus, the founder of Thebes, was resolutely linked to the Gk verb kaínūmi(to overcome) by scholars who insisted on excluding non-Indo-European languages from etymologies. Now everyone admits the obvious: his name comes from Semitic קדם and means 'the easterner'. One of Greece's quintessential founding heroes came from Phoenicia or therabouts.</dd> <dd>In short, the 'internal reconstruction' that is perhaps favoured in yeshivas, can only go so far. Scholars in Jewish studies cast a far wider net, and have illuminated much, and many rabbis are happy to extend their learning and embrace the 'comparativist' branch for that reason. That is why I strongly advise against primary sources. You might profit from reading Benjamin J. Noonan's recent monograph Non-Semitic Loanwords in the Hebrew Bible: A Lexicon of Language Contact, Penn State Press, 2019 <a href="#cite_note-3">[a]</a>, which I have only browsed to the extent google allows.</dd> <dd>Of course, all this ignores <a href="/wiki/Gematriya" class="mw-redirect" title="Gematriya">gematriya</a> (itself one of many many words borrowed into Hebrew from Greek). There, I'm afraid, if you believe that a secret meaning exists in every text if one reads it numerically, you will lose me, and I hazard, yourself. It's true that certain prayers were formulated to bear a secret meaning: say, to cite the first that comes to mind, those minim who 'prostrate themselves before emptiness' (va-rik) must mean Christians, because va-rik has the same numerical value as 'Yeshu'/Jesus (136). That is a dead end, fascinating for the weird speculations it can on occasion generate, but fundamentally just a wordgame, more suited to James Joyce's <a href="/wiki/Finnegans_Wake" title="Finnegans Wake">Finnegans Wake</a>, than serious scholarship. Regards (I must run, and Huldra will be grateful for my absence. Sunday invitations to lunch are serious things here).<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-28T11:07:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-26T06:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:07, 28 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Nishidani, your citation made me laugh, but I'm afraid we're diverging from our topic on our friend's Talk-Page which we are not permitted to use as a Chat-page. That all men once spoke a common language is well-known, and which some scholars call by the name of "the Holy Tongue" (i.e. a form of antiquated Hebrew). If we may return to my initial talking-point, as is known, Jewish women who are observant will cover the hairs of their head with scarves, or with Modern hats, whenever they go out in public places. This also happens to be the rule whenever they sit within their own houses. The following question was posed unto Rabbi <a href="/wiki/Yosef_Qafih" title="Yosef Qafih">Yosef Qafih</a>: "How is a wife supposed to behave in her own home with respect to her dress and head-covering?" The rabbi answered thus: "In her own house, she can walk about stark naked, but the custom of our forefathers is tantamount to a thing written in the Law of Moses (i.e. Torah), whereby it was with great difficulty that they permitted the rafters of her house to see the hairs of her head, and she becomes like a person who has been overpowered by a demon when merely changing her clothes or head-dress!" (END QUOTE)---<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2020-06-28T14:23:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-28T11:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:23, 28 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> ... Well, let's close here. It's better we not get into the details about what rabbis say of female hair. One of the proofs that religions have nothing to do with a transcendental creator lies in what they reveal of male opinions about what the better half of humankind must do or be. Indeed the Talmud has Moses upbraiding (to use a hair metaphor) YHWH himself at one point (at <a href="/wiki/Genesis_Rabbah" title="Genesis Rabbah">Genesis Rabbah</a> 8:8). Nothing in the Bible obliges women, let alone married women, to cover their hair, that is a rabbinic invention, as often, as one sees in the non-biblical fantasy of Boaz touching Ruth's hair to assure himself she was not a demon, since female demons, unlike male ones, are bald. Judaism pre-existed the rabbinate, and will survive it. Since I mentioned Boas, I thought of his name, given to one of the two columns of Solomon's temple. That itself tells one Hebrew cannot be the oldest language, since the Israelites had no Hebrew word for temple hekal and had to borrow one from Sumerian, egal, via Akkadian. Sumerian is two thousand years older, and there was no first language of mankind, since people in Australia, who speak spoke mostly highly complicated languages, arrived there 50-60,000 years before the Sumerians themselves emerged into history on the other side of the world. Yes, let us respect Huldra's page and shut up. if you want a final word drop it on my page, but I can't guarantee I will have time to reply. Important things are pressing, as they are with everyone. <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-06-28T16:58:00.000Z-Arminden" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:58, 28 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To whom it may concern: This conversation has been continued on <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">User talk:Nishidani</a> (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani#Re_a_discussion_of_Huldra%27s_page">here</a>).<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2020-06-28T21:02:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-06-28T16:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:02, 28 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Easter-egg_link" data-mw-thread-id="h-Easter-egg_link-2020-06-30T20:22:00.000Z">Easter-egg link</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=68" title="Edit section: Easter-egg link">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> On 17 June 2020, the RfC at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration#RFC:_West_Bank_village_articles" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration">Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration #RFC: West Bank village articles</a> was closed including the statement <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">"1. It is not normal Wikipedian practice to include easter-egg links from relatively bland phrases like "Came under Jordanian rule" to our nuanced articles <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian annexation of the West Bank</a> ... There is scope for editors to correct instances of this."</q> You restored exactly that text as part of <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aqraba,_Nablus&diff=965185037&oldid=965162367&diffmode=source">this edit</a> on 29 June 2020. As that is contrary to the outcome of the RfC, I'm asking you to fix your mistake. --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-RexxS-2020-06-30T20:22:00.000Z-Easter-egg_link" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">User:RexxS</a>: sorry If I misunderstood, (and the article has already been updated).</dd> <dd>Also, you might see that the annexation part was a very small part in a revert to include the 1961 and 2014 info.</dd> <dd>Also, the article named <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian annexation of the West Bank</a> (btw: the name has recently changed (from <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_occupation_of_the_West_Bank" class="mw-redirect" title="Jordanian occupation of the West Bank">Jordanian occupation of the West Bank</a>), and the name of the article is continually discussed) includes two parts: the occupation phase (1948-1950) and the annexation phase (1950-67). So, even if we just link to "<a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian annexation of the West Bank</a>" (instead of the piped "<a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian rule</a>") ..it will still be a sort of "Easter Egg" (as the name does not include "occupation".)</dd> <dd>So, the article <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian annexation of the West Bank</a> may be nuanced, but the name is not.</dd> <dd>Of course, if the name was, say, <a href="/w/index.php?title=Jordanian_occupation_(1948-50)_and_annexation_(1950-67)_of_the_West_Bank&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Jordanian occupation (1948-50) and annexation (1950-67) of the West Bank (page does not exist)">Jordanian occupation (1948-50) and annexation (1950-67) of the West Bank</a>...it would not have been any "Easter egg"; but that name would be, IMO, extremely cumbersome and unwieldy. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-30T20:53:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-06-30T20:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">User:RexxS</a>: Mmmm, checking again; my diff you referred to above, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aqraba,_Nablus&diff=965185037&oldid=965162367&diffmode=source">this edit</a>, had me write "came under <a href="/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank" title="Jordanian annexation of the West Bank">Jordanian rule</a>. It was annexed by Jordan in 1950." (As I said above: that was a very small part of my revert). So I don't understand at all: what was wrong with that? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-30T21:26:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-30T20:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:26, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd> <dl><dd>Hi Huldra, I'm not re-litigating the RfC, and you can read my initial post here for the text of the closure. I'm asking you to fix your mistake in restoring an easter-egg link against the RfC consensus, which is still in the article. That restoration lead to another editor being taken to AE, so I'm not going to treat it as a minor matter. Are you willing to remove the easter-egg link or not? --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-RexxS-2020-06-30T21:32:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-30T21:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">User:RexxS</a>: I was just writing for the AE; but I will put it here instead:</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> My revert was mainly to reintroduce 1961 and 2014 info. In that revert I also changed: {{main|Jordanian annexation of the West Bank}} In the wake of the [[1948 Arab–Israeli War]], and after the [[1949 Armistice Agreements]], Aqraba came under Jordanian rule.{{cn|date=June 2020}} to: In the wake of the [[1948 Arab–Israeli War]], and after the [[1949 Armistice Agreements]], Aqraba came under [[Jordanian annexation of the West Bank|Jordanian rule]]. It was annexed by Jordan in 1950. Actually that was a very minor part of my revert: I actually prefer the first version (!), and will restore that immediately, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-30T21:38:00.000Z-Easter-egg_link" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>pr. <a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">User:RexxS</a>: <img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done Hope <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aqraba,_Nablus&diff=prev&oldid=965360113">this</a> was ok? [User:Huldra|Huldra]] (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-RexxS-2020-06-30T21:40:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-30T21:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:40, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you. I am aware that it was a minor part of the revert, but it was what triggered Selfstudier to remove the easter-egg and the following text again. They are now facing sanctions for that second edit, which would have been unnecessary if you had not reintroduced the text they had objected to. I hope you can see my disquiet. --<a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">RexxS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:RexxS" title="User talk:RexxS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-RexxS-2020-06-30T22:02:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-06-30T21:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:02, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:RexxS" title="User:RexxS">User:RexxS</a>: I absolutely do. And the stupidity of it all is that I (much prefer) the present version; (or the Selfstudier version): the reason I made my edit was that I was frankly upset that they had taken out (the wholly uncontroversial) 1961 info. In my hurry to reintroduce it, I forgot to look at the earlier "Jordanian era" phrasing: <a href="/wiki/Mea_culpa" title="Mea culpa">Mea culpa</a>! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-30T22:08:00.000Z-RexxS-2020-06-30T22:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Out_of_personal_interest" data-mw-thread-id="h-Out_of_personal_interest-2020-06-30T22:09:00.000Z">Out of personal interest</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=69" title="Edit section: Out of personal interest">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello. Not here to accuse you of anything, just noticed that suddenly you were interested in organizations about leaving Orthodox Jewish lifestyle, like <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hillel&diff=next&oldid=964501070">here</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Off_the_derech&diff=964514410&oldid=962815678">here</a>. How come? <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-06-30T22:09:00.000Z-Out_of_personal_interest" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">User:Debresser</a>: No problem; I just happened to be reading about it, and found it interesting, thats all. (I was reading about the European early nobility recently, and did quite a few edits wrt that, too..)</dd> <dd>The thing is: for years I have been occupied here on wp by adding stuff on the pre-1948 history of Palestinian places (things that are in <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/HA" title="User:Huldra/HA">HA</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Guerin" title="User:Huldra/Guerin">Guerin</a>, SWP etc, etc.): pretty boring stuff, but necessary. As you can see from my <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/HA" title="User:Huldra/HA">HA</a>: I am pretty much done (well, there are some places in Jordan, & Lebanon left, but it is pretty boring to work on them alone :/ )</dd> <dd>So now I am mostly "roaming around" on whatever I find interesting ;) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-06-30T22:20:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-06-30T22:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:20, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for your reply, and have <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fun" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Fun">fun</a> editing. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-06-30T23:05:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-06-30T22:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:05, 30 June 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_"annexation"_thing" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_"annexation"_thing-2020-07-01T11:47:00.000Z">The "annexation" thing</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=70" title="Edit section: The "annexation" thing">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, sorry you ended up in the middle of all that discussion at AE. On the "annexation" (vs occupation/rule etc) you can also take a look at at these convos: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Islamization_of_East_Jerusalem_under_Jordanian_rule#Requested_move_2_May_2020">[22]</a> (this move -from occupation to rule- is being reviewed at <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Move_review/Log/2020_May#Islamization_of_East_Jerusalem_under_Jordanian_rule">[23]</a> The related discussion at the actual page is still ongoing as well <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank#RFC:_Rule_or_Occupation?">[24]</a> The root problem here is the effort to relitigate the question in every conceivable forum, a pointless exercise imo but it is what is. Hope it helps.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-07-01T11:47:00.000Z-The_"annexation"_thing" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:47, 1 July 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">User:Selfstudier</a>: don't worry; just realise that I have editors following my every edit, waiting for that "got'cha!" moment. (Hey, I am not complaining about them following me around: that way they (hopefully?) will learn something about Palestinian history!) One just have to be very, very careful not to give them that "got'cha!" moment...</dd> <dd>And I know the rule/occupation discussions are exhaustive: I have been doing them for 15 years... :/ <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-07-03T21:10:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-07-01T11:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:10, 3 July 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DYK_for_Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta" data-mw-thread-id="h-DYK_for_Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta-2020-08-07T12:03:00.000Z">DYK for Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=71" title="Edit section: DYK for Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><a href="/wiki/File:Updated_DYK_query.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/40px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="81" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/60px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/80px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="35" data-file-height="71"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> On <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions#7_August_2020" title="Wikipedia:Recent additions">7 August 2020</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know" title="Template:Did you know">Did you know</a> was updated with a fact from the article <a href="/wiki/Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta" title="Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta">Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta</a>, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the name of the former Palestinian village <a href="/wiki/Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta" title="Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta">al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta</a> may have been a tribute to the <a href="/wiki/Mamluk_Sultanate_(Cairo)" class="mw-redirect" title="Mamluk Sultanate (Cairo)">Mamluk</a> sultan <a href="/wiki/Baibars" class="mw-redirect" title="Baibars">al-Zahir Baybars</a>? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta" title="Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta">Template:Did you know nominations/Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta</a>. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (<a href="/wiki/User:Rjanag/Pageview_stats" title="User:Rjanag/Pageview stats">here's how</a>, <a class="external text" href="//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2020-07-28&end=2020-08-17&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta">Al-Zahiriyya al-Tahta</a>), and it may be added to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Statistics" title="Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics">the statistics page</a> if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know" title="Template talk:Did you know">Did you know talk page</a>. </div> </div> <a href="/wiki/User:Cwmhiraeth" title="User:Cwmhiraeth">Cwmhiraeth</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cwmhiraeth" title="User talk:Cwmhiraeth">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Cwmhiraeth-2020-08-07T12:03:00.000Z-DYK_for_Al-Zahiriyya_al-Tahta" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:03, 7 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Respectful_call_to_desist_from_protracted_edit_warring" data-mw-thread-id="h-Respectful_call_to_desist_from_protracted_edit_warring-2020-08-11T00:23:00.000Z">Respectful call to desist from protracted edit warring</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=72" title="Edit section: Respectful call to desist from protracted edit warring">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Please notice that your recent edit to <a href="/wiki/Gush_Etzion" title="Gush Etzion">Gush Etzion</a> was reverted, and you have tried twice now to reimpose it, despite the fact that you are well aware that there is an ongoing discussion about this issue. Moreover, that discussion does not show consensus for your change at all. Please desist from this protracted edit warring, or I may have to report you at the appropriate venues. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-08-11T00:23:00.000Z-Respectful_call_to_desist_from_protracted_edit_warring" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:23, 11 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a>: You wrote in your last revert that the talk page "actually contains a good argument to keep this version". I honestly can't find the issue mentioned at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Gush_Etzion" title="Talk:Gush Etzion">Talk:Gush Etzion</a> at all. Can you please point it out to me? <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2020-08-11T02:42:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-08-11T00:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:42, 11 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Debresser, the term is not NPOV and goes against consensus, I have reverted and you need to obtain consensus here for it here if you insist on this.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2020-08-11T08:39:00.000Z-Zero0000-2020-08-11T02:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:39, 11 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@Zero0000 The talkpage where the discussion is taking place, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:11Fox11#Your_reintroduction_of_an_redirection" title="User talk:11Fox11">User_talk:11Fox11#Your_reintroduction_of_an_redirection</a>. I am sorry, I should have spelled that out. Huldra is taking part in that discussion and knows where it is taking place, and this is her talkpage after all, so. :)</dd> <dd>@Selfstudier The discussion there is clear enough that your edit does not have consensus, while my "edit" is restoring the consensus version. Please read what I wrote above, which mutatis mutandis applies to you as well, and desist immediately or you too will be reported. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-08-11T14:59:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2020-08-11T08:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:59, 11 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> Well, the first I came in contact with the "redirect"-issue, was when Shrike reported me to AE here: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive220#Huldra" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive220">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive220#Huldra</a>. As you can see, most of his objections were that I used the <a href="/wiki/ARIJ" class="mw-redirect" title="ARIJ">ARIJ</a> term <a href="/wiki/Segregation_wall" class="mw-redirect" title="Segregation wall">segregation wall</a>, instead of the "official wp-name", <a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli West Bank barrier</a>. Also, according to Shrike: "It was already advised by AE admins[19] now to use such terms she was not sanctioned because it was not discussed with her now it is".(<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AHuldra&type=revision&diff=955539648&oldid=955537999">link</a>) Editors have been changeing all the <a href="/wiki/Segregation_wall" class="mw-redirect" title="Segregation wall">segregation wall</a> to <a href="/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli West Bank barrier">Israeli West Bank barrier</a>; I (of course) have not changed them back. (There are presently 0 articles which use the term/link <a href="/wiki/Segregation_wall" class="mw-redirect" title="Segregation wall">segregation wall</a>) Now, I wonder: if "<a href="/wiki/Segregation_wall" class="mw-redirect" title="Segregation wall">segregation wall</a>" cannot be used, why on earth can we use <a href="/wiki/Israeli_War_of_Independence" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli War of Independence">Israeli War of Independence</a>, (instead of the <a href="/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War" title="1948 Arab–Israeli War">1948 Arab–Israeli War</a>/<a href="/wiki/1947%E2%80%931949_Palestine_war" class="mw-redirect" title="1947–1949 Palestine war">1947–1949 Palestine war</a>)? What is good for the goose, is good for the gander. (Incidentally, I could, in theory, agree with you that it would be more "natural" to use "<a href="/wiki/Nakba" title="Nakba">Nakba</a>" or "<a href="/wiki/Israeli_War_of_Independence" class="mw-redirect" title="Israeli War of Independence">Israeli War of Independence</a>" in specific cases. But you know as well as I do, that such an option would open up a <a href="/wiki/Pandoras_box" class="mw-redirect" title="Pandoras box">Pandoras box</a> of problems, with endless discussions about what name goes where. Instead of having the dicussion about the article-name one place, we could have them, literally, hundreds of places: not my idea of fun.) Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-08-11T20:48:00.000Z-Respectful_call_to_desist_from_protracted_edit_warring" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 11 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I am grateful for your theoretical agreement. I see no problem with implementing this practically as well. More precisely, at the specific <a href="/w/index.php?title=Gusg_Etzion&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Gusg Etzion (page does not exist)">Gusg Etzion</a> article, this was implemented, and you are trying to change that. As you are well aware, without a clear consensus, you can no do that. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-08-12T22:05:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-08-11T20:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:05, 12 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>The "<a href="/wiki/Segregation_wall" class="mw-redirect" title="Segregation wall">segregation wall</a>" was also long in various articles, now it is all taken out. And 2 out of 6 is hardly consensus, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-08-12T22:13:00.000Z-Debresser-2020-08-12T22:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 12 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="WP:ANI" data-mw-thread-id="h-WP:ANI-2020-08-12T22:35:00.000Z">WP:ANI</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=73" title="Edit section: WP:ANI">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Please see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Pro-Palestinian_editors_editing_in_consort_to_push_POV" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Pro-Palestinian_editors_editing_in_consort_to_push_POV</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Debresser" title="User:Debresser">Debresser</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Debresser" title="User talk:Debresser">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Debresser-2020-08-12T22:35:00.000Z-WP:ANI" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:35, 12 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_Birthday" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_Birthday-2020-08-31T00:10:00.000Z">Happy Birthday</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=74" title="Edit section: Happy Birthday">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hey, Happy 15th birthday on Wikipedia! Hope this message can make your day a little bit better. <a href="/wiki/User:Vice_regent" title="User:Vice regent">VR</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vice_regent" title="User talk:Vice regent">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Vice_regent-2020-08-31T00:10:00.000Z-Happy_Birthday" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:10, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_First_Edit_Day!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!-2020-08-31T07:48:00.000Z">Happy First Edit Day!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=75" title="Edit section: Happy First Edit Day!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table class="messagebox standard-talk" style="border: 2px dashed #FF0000; background-color: gold;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="text-align:center;"><a href="/wiki/File:Balloons-aj.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/50px-Balloons-aj.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="55" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/75px-Balloons-aj.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/100px-Balloons-aj.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1100" data-file-height="1200"/></a> </td> <td style="text-align:center;" width="100%">Hey, Huldra. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Birthday_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Birthday Committee">Wikipedia Birthday Committee</a>! Have a great day! <a href="/wiki/User:Synoman_Barris" title="User:Synoman Barris">Megan Barris</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Synoman_Barris" title="User talk:Synoman Barris">(Lets talk📧)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Synoman_Barris-2020-08-31T07:48:00.000Z-Happy_First_Edit_Day!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:48, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td> <td style="text-align:right;"><a href="/wiki/File:Face-smile.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/55px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="55" height="55" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/83px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/110px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a> </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Invitation_to_join_the_Fifteen_Year_Society" data-mw-thread-id="h-Invitation_to_join_the_Fifteen_Year_Society-2020-08-31T13:08:00.000Z">Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=76" title="Edit section: Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fifteen_Year_Society" title="Wikipedia:Fifteen Year Society"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Fifteen_Year_Society_userbox.svg/125px-Fifteen_Year_Society_userbox.svg.png" decoding="async" width="125" height="102" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Fifteen_Year_Society_userbox.svg/188px-Fifteen_Year_Society_userbox.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d9/Fifteen_Year_Society_userbox.svg/250px-Fifteen_Year_Society_userbox.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="375" data-file-height="305"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> Dear Huldra, I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Fifteen_Year_Society" title="Wikipedia:Fifteen Year Society">Fifteen Year Society</a>, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for fifteen years or more. Best regards, <a href="/wiki/User:Chris_troutman" title="User:Chris troutman">Chris Troutman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chris_troutman" title="User talk:Chris troutman">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Chris_troutman-2020-08-31T13:08:00.000Z-Invitation_to_join_the_Fifteen_Year_Society" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:08, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <dl><dd>Thanks everyone! Time flies...<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-08-31T20:25:00.000Z-Chris_troutman-2020-08-31T13:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:25, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>What are 'time flies'? Are they (a) the things Lear says are killed for the sport of gods or (b) is that a misprint for 'thyme flies' (though I don't recall flies behaving like bees). (c) or an example of <a href="/wiki/Metathesis_(linguistics)" title="Metathesis (linguistics)">metathesis</a>, ensuing from the <a href="/wiki/Lapsus_calami" class="mw-redirect" title="Lapsus calami">lapsus calami</a> in the transpositioning of 'l' and 'i', ergo, a misprint for 'time files', which could refer to instruments adequate to the filing away by time of whatever time takes its rasp to, or the archives of work done over a period extensive enough to be rated worthy of time (like a Wikipedia article), or worser still, back issues of a defunct American magazine? Whatever, congratulations, Huldra.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-08-31T20:37:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-08-31T20:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a> thanks! and it is d) "tiden flyr" ;P <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-08-31T20:42:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-08-31T20:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:42, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Det kan jag förstå! I am watching Lambert in Lord Greystoke, and got to monkeying around during an ad break.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-08-31T21:15:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-08-31T20:37:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> You're a hero, Huldra (or should that be heroine?) for sticking around for so long, and making a brilliant job of it, in one of the most difficult areas of Wikipedia (Israel/Palestine). Congratulations! --<a href="/wiki/User:NSH001" title="User:NSH001">NSH001</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NSH001" title="User talk:NSH001">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-NSH001-2020-09-01T07:18:00.000Z-Invitation_to_join_the_Fifteen_Year_Society" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:18, 1 September 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, you really are too kind, <a href="/wiki/User_talk:NSH001" title="User talk:NSH001">User talk:NSH001</a>. I am just adding "low-hanging fruit", ie easily available sources, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-09-01T20:34:00.000Z-NSH001-2020-09-01T07:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:34, 1 September 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Oh don't be silly, dear girl. The appropriate arborial image was provided by another woman, the untranslatable Sappho</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Οἶον τὸ γλυκύμαλον ἐρεύθεται ἄκρῳ ἐπ᾽ ὔσδῳ</dd> <dd>ἄκρον ἐπ᾽ ἀκροτάτῳ λελάθοντο δὲ μαλοδρόπηες,</dd> <dd>οὐ μὰν ἐκλελάθοντ᾽, ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ ἐδύναντ᾽ ἐπίκεσθαι</dd> <dd>As the sweet applies blushes: on the top bough</dd> <dd>At the very top of the topmost bough,</dd> <dd>Missed by the apple-pickers -no, they didn't miss it</dd> <dd>at all: they couldn't reach that far to cull it.</dd></dl> That is what you did. Harvest what so many of us couldn't get, even if we tried.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-09-01T22:13:00.000Z-Invitation_to_join_the_Fifteen_Year_Society" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 1 September 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Nah...I leave the top of the tree to Zero, ;P <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-09-01T22:17:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-09-01T22:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:17, 1 September 2020 (UTC)</a> PS: thanks for the poem![<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>It's no sweat for the lynx-eyed eagle, gifted with flight who just has to swoop. The toilers in the field have to climb, other than gather. I lose most fights, but not with the ramifications of analogies or images! <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2020-09-02T06:56:00.000Z-Nishidani-2020-09-01T22:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:56, 2 September 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_First_Edit_Day!_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!_2-2020-08-31T21:36:00.000Z">Happy First Edit Day!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=77" title="Edit section: Happy First Edit Day!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="boilerplate metadata" style="background-color:#E6E6FA; border: 1px solid #7D00B3; margin: 0.5em auto; padding: 0.5em; width:90%; text-align: center"><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_kate.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Nuvola_apps_kate.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_kate.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="39" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Nuvola_apps_kate.svg/75px-Nuvola_apps_kate.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/69/Nuvola_apps_kate.svg/100px-Nuvola_apps_kate.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="481" data-file-height="373"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure>Happy First Edit Day!<figure class="mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_date.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/75px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Nuvola_apps_date.svg/100px-Nuvola_apps_date.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> Have a very happy first edit anniversary! From the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BDAYCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BDAYCOM">Birthday Committee</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:CAPTAIN_RAJU" title="User:CAPTAIN RAJU">CAPTAIN RAJU</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:CAPTAIN_RAJU" title="User talk:CAPTAIN RAJU">(T)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-CAPTAIN_RAJU-2020-08-31T21:36:00.000Z-Happy_First_Edit_Day!_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </div> <dl><dd>Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-08-31T21:38:00.000Z-CAPTAIN_RAJU-2020-08-31T21:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 31 August 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_27" data-mw-thread-id="h-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_27-2020-09-27T10:22:00.000Z">Disambiguation link notification for September 27</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=78" title="Edit section: Disambiguation link notification for September 27">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> An automated process has detected that when you recently edited <a href="/wiki/Kafr_Zabad" title="Kafr Zabad">Kafr Zabad</a>, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page <a href="/wiki/Druse" class="mw-disambig" title="Druse">Druse</a>. (<a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">Opt-out instructions</a>.) --<a href="/wiki/User:DPL_bot" title="User:DPL bot">DPL bot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DPL_bot" title="User talk:DPL bot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-DPL_bot-2020-09-27T10:22:00.000Z-Disambiguation_link_notification_for_September_27" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:22, 27 September 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Notice_of_noticeboard_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Notice_of_noticeboard_discussion-2020-09-27T19:19:00.000Z">Notice of noticeboard discussion</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=79" title="Edit section: Notice of noticeboard discussion">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <img alt="Information icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/25px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/38px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/50px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/> There is currently a discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard</a> regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Users_with_indefinitely_protected_user_talk_pages" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">Users with indefinitely protected user talk pages</a>". Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jackmcbarn" title="User talk:Jackmcbarn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Jackmcbarn-2020-09-27T19:19:00.000Z-Notice_of_noticeboard_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:19, 27 September 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Needs_your_help_over_preplanned_conspircay_and_serial_harassment_against_me" data-mw-thread-id="h-Needs_your_help_over_preplanned_conspircay_and_serial_harassment_against_me-2020-10-02T19:08:00.000Z">Needs your help over preplanned conspircay and serial harassment against me</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=80" title="Edit section: Needs your help over preplanned conspircay and serial harassment against me">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Three users with the same method and same mentality appeared in the same time and started to vandalize the article of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Begin_Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Begin Sadat Center for Strategic Studies (page does not exist)">Begin Sadat Center for Strategic Studies</a> , deleting third party sources and citations of existing information then added tons of promotional primary sources , then engaged in edtiing warring and accused me of vandalism and warring ! here is the revision history <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies&action=history">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies&action=history</a> However later I found out that <a href="/wiki/User:Paradise_Chronicle" title="User:Paradise Chronicle">User:Paradise Chronicle</a> and User <a href="/wiki/User:AppleBsTime" title="User:AppleBsTime">User:AppleBsTime</a> turned out to be planning a conspiracy against me on Begin Sadat Center article , they pre planned an escalated dispute to grant me a block , here is the evidence <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Paradise_Chronicle#Sheikh_Adi_Ibn_Musafir_was_a_Muslim">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Paradise_Chronicle#Sheikh_Adi_Ibn_Musafir_was_a_Muslim</a> and here <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wbiases">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wbiases</a> , I believe that they need to be blocked and banned for life along with their IP ranges over their hateful and abusive behavior along with the three other users whom I highly suspect that they are actually the same person , their pages are :User Wbiases , User I69i197496 and User Thhings6sz along with User AppleBsTime and User Paradise Chronicle , Thank You so much<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AleviQizilbash&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AleviQizilbash (page does not exist)">AleviQizilbash</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AleviQizilbash" title="User talk:AleviQizilbash">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-02T19:08:00.000Z-Needs_your_help_over_preplanned_conspircay_and_serial_harassment_against_me" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:08, 2 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Ugh, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AleviQizilbash&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AleviQizilbash (page does not exist)">User:AleviQizilbash</a>, Firstly, I don't know if I can help on <a href="/wiki/Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies" title="Begin–Sadat Center for Strategic Studies">Begin–Sadat Center for Strategic Studies</a>; I have never edited the article. My best advice is to not make large changes in one go, but to list the changes you want to make on the talk-page.</dd> <dd>Secondly; frankly, I am put off by your attitude. Talking about "preplanned conspircay and serial harassment" is very harsh language, and I cannot see the diffs you give merit that. Please do not attack anyone, as they say: tackle the ball, not the player. Please read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPA">WP:NPA</a>, and follow the rules! --or you will be banned/blocked: that is the way Wikipedia works.</dd> <dd>Thirdly: looking through your contributions, finding stuff like <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AleviQizilbash&diff=prev&oldid=978168735">this</a>: I really don't like. How the heck can you expect respect for your own religion -if you don't show respect for other peoples religion? It is the <a href="/wiki/Golden_Rule" title="Golden Rule">Golden Rule</a>: treat other people (=editors) as you yourself want to be treated. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-10-02T21:18:00.000Z-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-02T19:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:18, 2 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Your third point was resolved before and I desisted however at that time user Paradise chronicle kept deleting all my academic sources on a row and her excuse was ' Yazidis don't like Muslims much " that's why I called her Islamophobe and gave her harsh response but I desisted after that when "User:Black Kite" engaged with us and it was ended peacefully but since then <a href="/wiki/User:Paradise_Chronicle" title="User:Paradise Chronicle">User:Paradise Chronicle</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:AppleBsTime" title="User:AppleBsTime">User:AppleBsTime</a> started to conspire against me to get me blocked , you can check the dates here 13 September (ended ) and 2 october <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Paradise_Chronicle#Sheikh_Adi_Ibn_Musafir_was_a_Muslim">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Paradise_Chronicle#Sheikh_Adi_Ibn_Musafir_was_a_Muslim</a></dd></dl> <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wbiases">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wbiases</a> And here is the whole ended issue already in the history of my User page when I clearly said that i desisted and everything went well , I didn't speak to them since then , to find out that they were conspiring against me today .<a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AleviQizilbash&oldid=979011240">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AleviQizilbash&oldid=979011240</a> It's not harsh they already said that .<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AleviQizilbash&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AleviQizilbash (page does not exist)">AleviQizilbash</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AleviQizilbash" title="User talk:AleviQizilbash">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-02T21:33:00.000Z-Needs_your_help_over_preplanned_conspircay_and_serial_harassment_against_me" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 2 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Well, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AleviQizilbash&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AleviQizilbash (page does not exist)">User:AleviQizilbash</a>: to say that you might be heading for a block is NOT conspiring, but saying that editors is "conspiring against you" can be seen as violating <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPA">WP:NPA</a>, and that is a blockable offence. You really need to "tone down" your rhetorics, or risk being blocked; again, that is the way Wikipedia works. It doesn't matter if you are 100% in the right (and I don't know: I haven't looked into the issue): Wikipedia is very much about how you present your case. And you are not doing a very good job of presenting your case, at the moment. To repeat: you need to focus on the issue (and ignore other editors behaviour), that is the only way you will advance your case, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-10-02T21:50:00.000Z-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-02T21:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 2 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yeah , I know the toxic western culture where poor victims have to hire expensive sneaky lawyers to present their case in an artificial appealing way , but if the victims can't be sneaky or can't hire sneaky lawyers or were themselves subjected to the games of sneaky lawyers who belong to the sneaky aggressor party , then the victim to be blamed , Wikipedia seems to be just another western system too , but anyway thank you for the enlightenment session <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AleviQizilbash&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AleviQizilbash (page does not exist)">AleviQizilbash</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AleviQizilbash" title="User talk:AleviQizilbash">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-03T05:56:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-10-02T21:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:56, 3 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>We probably have a textbook case of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BOOMERANG" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BOOMERANG">Wikipedia:BOOMERANG</a> about to unveil itself. - <a href="/wiki/User:AppleBsTime" title="User:AppleBsTime">AppleBsTime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AppleBsTime" title="User talk:AppleBsTime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-AppleBsTime-2020-10-02T21:16:00.000Z-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-02T21:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:16, 2 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Not canvassing for input, but if you are so moved: I opened a WP:AN/I about <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=982152210&oldid=982149082">the user</a> AleviQizilbash. - <a href="/wiki/User:AppleBsTime" title="User:AppleBsTime">AppleBsTime</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AppleBsTime" title="User talk:AppleBsTime">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-AppleBsTime-2020-10-06T13:24:00.000Z-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-02T21:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:24, 6 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Israeli_Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies_or_BESA_became_a_promotional_work" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Israeli_Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies_or_BESA_became_a_promotio-2020-10-06T12:07:00.000Z">The Israeli <a href="/wiki/Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies" title="Begin–Sadat Center for Strategic Studies">Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies</a> or BESA became a promotional work</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=81" title="Edit section: The Israeli Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies or BESA became a promotional work">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> The Article is now protected , only those with over 500 contributions are allowed to edit it so basically I'm excluded , now they have deleted all third party sources that criticze BESA or even discuss BESA's policy papers . <ol><li><dl><dd>My last edit : <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies&oldid=981492439">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies&oldid=981492439</a></dd> <dd>The current edit : <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies&oldid=982051316">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies&oldid=982051316</a></dd> <dd>The toxic talk page about deleting all the anti BESA sources : <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies#BESA_and_ISIS">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Begin%E2%80%93Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies#BESA_and_ISIS</a></dd></dl></li></ol> Please check them and do whatever you sees right , I can't edit it now after protection and after the lengthy exhausting and toxic discussion with those who want to keep it promotional and cover up all criticism of BESA's lunatic policy papers , Thank You <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AleviQizilbash&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AleviQizilbash (page does not exist)">AleviQizilbash</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AleviQizilbash" title="User talk:AleviQizilbash">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-06T12:07:00.000Z-The_Israeli_Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies_or_BESA_became_a_promotio" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:07, 6 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] AleviQizilbash pov has been rejected a long time ago. He came only to discredit and attack the page after he didn't like something regarding Alawites. Third party NPR view is already there. In addition, this user has a routine of pov push across subjects. <a class="external free" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AleviQizilbash&diff=prev&oldid=982024195">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:AleviQizilbash&diff=prev&oldid=982024195</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Thhings6sz" title="User:Thhings6sz">Thhings6sz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thhings6sz" title="User talk:Thhings6sz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Thhings6sz-2020-10-06T12:28:00.000Z-The_Israeli_Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies_or_BESA_became_a_promotio" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:28, 6 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There is no POV push , The link you provided was about my first academic contribution to the article of <a href="/wiki/Ismail_al-Jazari" title="Ismail al-Jazari">Ismail_al-Jazariwhere</a> I just cited academic sources about his ethnic background , that's all , while the triggered user deleted all the academic sources and sent me this useless warning . Here is the revision history comparison between my edit of Ismail al Jazari and the edit of the triggered user <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ismail_al-Jazari&diff=982024044&oldid=982001009">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ismail_al-Jazari&diff=982024044&oldid=982001009</a> , anyway Huldra can judge the original topic of Begin Sadat and see who is the one who pushes his single POV and she can change the article or keep it as it is <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:AleviQizilbash&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:AleviQizilbash (page does not exist)">AleviQizilbash</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AleviQizilbash" title="User talk:AleviQizilbash">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-AleviQizilbash-2020-10-06T12:38:00.000Z-Thhings6sz-2020-10-06T12:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:38, 6 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> Again aleviqizilbash showing pov by diatribe: "lunatic" - his word. I just checked. Anti Besa Haaretz still there, NPR view is still there. but not pro hezbollah "source". Of course he came to the page only after he added words "according to besa center" <a class="external free" href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alawites&diff=prev&oldid=975993674">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alawites&diff=prev&oldid=975993674</a> . Then he came only to attack. <a href="/wiki/User:Thhings6sz" title="User:Thhings6sz">Thhings6sz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thhings6sz" title="User talk:Thhings6sz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Thhings6sz-2020-10-06T14:26:00.000Z-The_Israeli_Begin–Sadat_Center_for_Strategic_Studies_or_BESA_became_a_promotio" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:26, 6 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Jezreel_and_Zir'in" data-mw-thread-id="h-Jezreel_and_Zir'in-2020-10-14T11:27:00.000Z">Jezreel and Zir'in</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=82" title="Edit section: Jezreel and Zir'in">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Will there be an objection to merging the articles of <a href="/wiki/Zir%27in" title="Zir'in">Zir'in</a> with the article of <a href="/wiki/Jezreel_(city)" class="mw-redirect" title="Jezreel (city)">Jezreel (city)</a>? It is exactly the same place, and it seems the latter deals with the history of the site until the Crusader period, while the former deals with the history of the site from the Crusader period onward. I don't think this divide is necessary. The Jezreel article was created to deal with a biblical site and the Zirin article was created to deal with a depopulated Palestinian Arab village. In fact, the site is was inhabited as early as 7000 years ago. In such a technical merge, all references to "Zir'in" will remain in place but will redirect to the Jezreel article. The lead section will mention the name Zir'in as one of the names of the site and all of its Arab histories will be recorded as part of the history of the site.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2020-10-14T11:27:00.000Z-Jezreel_and_Zir'in" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:27, 14 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm sorry to intrude here, but to merge these two articles would set a very bad precedent, and it will require of us to merge <a href="/wiki/Battir" title="Battir">Battir</a> with <a href="/wiki/Betar_(fortress)" class="mw-redirect" title="Betar (fortress)">Betar (fortress)</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Sar%27a" title="Sar'a">Sar'a</a> with <a href="/wiki/Zorah" title="Zorah">Zorah</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Yibna" title="Yibna">Yibna</a> with <a href="/wiki/Yavne" title="Yavne">Yavne</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Dura,_Hebron" title="Dura, Hebron">Dura, Hebron</a> with <a href="/wiki/Adurim" class="mw-redirect" title="Adurim">Adurim</a>, not to mention a myriad of other articles that speak about the <ins>identical place</ins>, with relative degrees of variant historical emphases. I say (IMHO) that we should leave these two articles as they stand, independently from one another.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2020-10-14T11:43:00.000Z-Bolter21-2020-10-14T11:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:43, 14 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There are already several such examples. See <a href="/wiki/Ayn_Jalut" class="mw-redirect" title="Ayn Jalut">Ayn Jalut</a> and <a href="/wiki/Ma%27ayan_Harod" title="Ma'ayan Harod">Ma'ayan Harod</a>, or <a href="/wiki/Qamun" class="mw-redirect" title="Qamun">Qamun</a> and <a href="/wiki/Tel_Yokneam" title="Tel Yokneam">Tel Yokneam</a>. This is not a precedent and not every two places need to be merged and there are many that shouldn't. A good example would be Israeli settlements in the West Bank, named after ancient settlements but in no way whatsoever are actually built in their location. And there are examples such as <a href="/wiki/Bethsaida" title="Bethsaida">Bethsaida</a>, where archaeologists debate whether it is located in a site known as "et-Tell" or a nearby site known as "El Araj". In that case, we should consider having three articles, one for the historical settlement mentioned in various sources, and two for each candidate. Where there is no consensus among researchers, we shouldn't make assumptions. There's the complex case of <a href="/wiki/Tel_Kabri" title="Tel Kabri">Tel Kabri</a>, in which on the boundaries of the 2nd millenium site there were two Palestinian Arab villages before 1948, but the village named "Kabri" was located outside of the boundaries of the site. This case needs a closer inspection and I doubt that merging all four places together is the right option. Also, I think that Isdud and Ashdod should be separated, because the modern city of Ashdod and the ancient city of Ashdod, Isdud or Tel Ashdod, are located in different places. The purpose is simply to provide complete and accurate information about a place to as many people as possible. A hill was settled somewhere 7000 years ago, and on top of it, there were dozens of ancient settlements, ranging from the Israelite capital in the Iron Age to a Palestinian village depopulated in 1948. Point is, every site has its one unique history, so this is not a precedent and you shouldn't be worry. The purpose is to bring as much information to as many people in the most accurate way.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2020-10-14T13:42:00.000Z-Davidbena-2020-10-14T11:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:42, 14 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Some issues: if we are going to merge the two, the <a href="/wiki/Jezreel_(city)" class="mw-redirect" title="Jezreel (city)">Jezreel (city)</a> article needs to be seriously cleaned up. Now a large part of its history part is simply based on the Bible etc -> simply not good enough. Secondary sources is much needed! (actually, they are needed irregardless of any merger).</dd> <dd>And is <a href="/wiki/Zir%27in" title="Zir'in">Zir'in</a> = <a href="/wiki/Jezreel_(city)" class="mw-redirect" title="Jezreel (city)">Jezreel (city)</a>? <a href="/wiki/Zir%27in" title="Zir'in">Zir'in</a> was a well-established village, with well-defined borders. <a href="/wiki/Jezreel_(city)" class="mw-redirect" title="Jezreel (city)">Jezreel (city)</a>: not so much.</dd> <dd>(You could argue why not merge <a href="/wiki/Yizre%27el" title="Yizre'el">Yizre'el</a> into it, and then we really open a can of worms.)</dd> <dd>So I am tending towards: nah, don't. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-10-14T21:36:00.000Z-Bolter21-2020-10-14T13:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 14 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a>: Yes, you're right that we do find its precedent, such as where <a href="/wiki/Bethany" title="Bethany">Bethany</a> (an independent article) was merged into <a href="/wiki/Al-Eizariya" class="mw-redirect" title="Al-Eizariya">Al-Eizariya</a>. So, here it will require of us to judge each case individually, based on the article's merits. I prefer a separation of two articles that speak about the same site whenever (1) the emphasis, in one article, is on its Jewish history (biblical or otherwise). Often, the site is more readily known by its traditional English name, rather than its Arabic name. As for <a href="/wiki/Zir%27in" title="Zir'in">Zir'in</a>, the more common name in English is <a href="/wiki/Jezreel_(city)" class="mw-redirect" title="Jezreel (city)">Jezreel (city)</a>. But does this mean there wasn't an Arab village by the other name, with its own unique history? No. On the contrary, there was an Arab village by that name with its own unique history. And while I have no doubt that these two article's refer to the exact same site, it seems that their general scope is different. I agree with Huldra that more work needs to be done in improving the article from an academic standpoint, whether by authenticating the historicity of events, or by citing reliable secondary sources.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2020-10-14T22:13:00.000Z-Bolter21-2020-10-14T13:42:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 14 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>I'll reply to both of you. I didn't expect it to turn into a discussion. The reason I asked Huldra and not the talk page is because my suggestion is not immediate as there must be a lot of work on both articles before the merge will be possible. For Huldra, from Excavation reports I can assure you that the exact are occupied by Zar'in, is the mound of the excavated Jezreel. Most of Jezreel's history is archaeologic, and its mentions in the bible serve only as reference, especially sense it is a site of the northern kingdom, which gets less spotlight in the bible. I have access to pretty much all studies written about Jezreel and especially, the three excavation reports from the project from 1990 to 1996, which reveal the long history of the site beyond the biblical narratives. Therefore this isn't a precedent. A precedent to merging two articles is proper research, which hasn't been done yet. Right now, I only ask Huldra for an opinion, which I've received. And if this discussion continues feel free to move it to my talk page.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2020-10-14T23:32:00.000Z-Davidbena-2020-10-14T22:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:32, 14 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Bear in mind that if we were ever to merge these two articles and keep the general content of both articles, it just might make the article excessively long. That is another factor to keep in mind. Again, I prefer the separation of these two similar, but dissimilar, articles.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-2020-10-15T11:12:00.000Z-Bolter21-2020-10-14T23:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:12, 15 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Applicability_of_30/500_rule_to_Mishmar_HaShiv'a" data-mw-thread-id="h-Applicability_of_30/500_rule_to_Mishmar_HaShiv'a-2020-10-15T06:41:00.000Z">Applicability of 30/500 rule to <a href="/wiki/Mishmar_HaShiv%27a" title="Mishmar HaShiv'a">Mishmar HaShiv'a</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=83" title="Edit section: Applicability of 30/500 rule to Mishmar HaShiv'a">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> First, can you clarify how <a href="/wiki/Mishmar_HaShiv%27a" title="Mishmar HaShiv'a">Mishmar HaShiv'a</a> is related to <a href="/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_conflict" title="Arab–Israeli conflict">Arab–Israeli conflict</a>? It had been founded more than a year later than the depopulation of Bayt Dajan, and had itself never seen any conflict/hostilities. Second, can you clarify how the transliteration of the Hebrew name "Mishmar HaShiv'a" into Arabic is relevant for the article on this settlement? The current name has no connection to the original Arab name, and hardly any Arab ever referred to it using the transliteration of the Hebrew name. --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Crash48&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Crash48 (page does not exist)">Crash48</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash48" title="User talk:Crash48">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Crash48-2020-10-15T06:41:00.000Z-Applicability_of_30/500_rule_to_Mishmar_HaShiv'a" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:41, 15 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>First, a moshav settled on a depopulated Palestinian village land, obviously comes under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPIA">WP:ARBPIA</a></dd> <dd>Second: see first.</dd> <dd>Third: you are violating the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBPIA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBPIA">WP:ARBPIA</a> rules by editing controversial subjects in the area, without fulfilling the 30/500 rule. Please stop, or expect to be reported, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-10-15T21:47:00.000Z-Crash48-2020-10-15T06:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:47, 15 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Whether or not the 30/500 rule applies, you have to have a reference for the Arabic name, you cannot invent it out of thin air. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANI#User:Huldra_re-inserting_into_Ganei_Tikva_his_OR_transliteration_of_the_Hebrew_name_into_Arabic" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANI">WP:ANI#User:Huldra re-inserting into Ganei Tikva his OR transliteration of the Hebrew name into Arabic</a> --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Crash48&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Crash48 (page does not exist)">Crash48</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Crash48" title="User talk:Crash48">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Crash48-2020-10-16T09:11:00.000Z-Huldra-2020-10-15T21:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:11, 16 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>, it obviously doesn't come under the ARBPIA rules. Further, we also have partial ARBPIA for any articles that have some parts of the article that may be part of the conflict. What we don't need is bringing the conflict into articles that have nothing to do with the conflict, and putting Arabic names into Israeli villages is one of them, unless they are known by that name it's just disruptive. <a href="/wiki/User:Sir_Joseph" title="User:Sir Joseph">Sir Joseph</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sir_Joseph" title="User talk:Sir Joseph">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sir_Joseph-2020-10-16T22:06:00.000Z-Crash48-2020-10-16T09:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:06, 16 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You are entitled to your opinions, that doesn't make those opinions "the rule", though, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-10-16T22:13:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2020-10-16T22:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 16 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>PS: you don't have to "ping" me when writing on my talk-page; I'm automatically "pinged" then, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-10-16T22:15:00.000Z-Sir_Joseph-2020-10-16T22:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 16 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sulam" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sulam-2020-10-17T01:17:00.000Z">Sulam</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=84" title="Edit section: Sulam">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi. You should give me a bit of time to finish (I'm not even saying: a bit of credit). I wasn't about to vandalise the article, just going one step at a time. See now by yourself, I'm convinced it's better now. Combined. Those who want detailed dig reports have the links to the actual reports (report summaries, to be precise). The report summaries only add super-specific information: which square with what coordinates has been dug out, what specific type of pottery they found (glazed bowl decorated with incising, Rashaya el-Fukhar and Gaza wares, ...) and so on; the rest is still here. I created a chronological sequence of settlement periods, with written sources first and archaeological proof underneath. I'm sure that no more than a handful of people would look up the dig reports, and for those the links are there, as said. If anything, I'm afraid it's still too much. a) it's a living village, and that hardly gets a mention; b) it's not a major archaeological site; and c) we don't have a base for an archaeology paragraph. The archaeology part was totally sub-standard for lack of sources: the exploration consists of pre-2000 surveys and probably some digs, which are not online (see Tzaferis title, our only mention of everything pre-2003), and tiny trial & salvage digs between 2003-2009, which are on hadashot-esi.org.il. Those are only summaries, and not very good (see mess about "6th c." coin, which is actually 7th and not Byzantine, but Rashidun. Plus other signs of rushed work.) We also have nothing for 2010-2020. Why then have a separate Archaeology paragraph? I hope you're OK with it now. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Arminden" title="User:Arminden">Arminden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arminden" title="User talk:Arminden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Arminden-2020-10-17T01:17:00.000Z-Sulam" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:17, 17 October 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_barnstar_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!-2020-11-04T14:49:00.000Z">A barnstar for you!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=85" title="Edit section: A barnstar for you!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><a href="/wiki/File:Special_Barnstar_Hires.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Special_Barnstar_Hires.png/100px-Special_Barnstar_Hires.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="95" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Special_Barnstar_Hires.png/150px-Special_Barnstar_Hires.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Special_Barnstar_Hires.png/200px-Special_Barnstar_Hires.png 2x" data-file-width="2000" data-file-height="1900"/></a> </td> <td style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;">The Special Barnstar </td></tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">Greetings to you 🙂 <a href="/wiki/User:Mr.Karmi" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Mr.Karmi">Mr.Karmi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mr.Karmi" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Mr.Karmi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Mr.Karmi-2020-11-04T14:49:00.000Z-A_barnstar_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:49, 4 November 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Mr.Karmi" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Mr.Karmi">User:Mr.Karmi</a>! <abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/18px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/27px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/36px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></abbr> <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2020-11-04T21:42:00.000Z-Mr.Karmi-2020-11-04T14:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:42, 4 November 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2020_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2020_Elections_voter_message-2020-11-24T01:18:00.000Z">ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=86" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2020 Elections voter message">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table class="messagebox" style="border: 1px solid #AAA; background: ivory; padding: 0.5em; width: 100%;"> <tbody><tr><td style="vertical-align:middle; padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></td><td>Hello! Voting in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2020" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2020">2020 Arbitration Committee elections</a> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 7 December 2020. All <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2020#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2020">eligible users</a> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2020 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2020/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2020/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/752" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/752">voting page</a>. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2020-11-24T01:18:00.000Z-ArbCom_2020_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:18, 24 November 2020 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td></tr> </tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Title_of_Palestine_National_Anthem" data-mw-thread-id="h-Title_of_Palestine_National_Anthem-2021-01-25T15:14:00.000Z">Title of Palestine National Anthem</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=87" title="Edit section: Title of Palestine National Anthem">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=State_of_Palestine&diff=1002659611">Diff</a> Do you agree? At <a href="/wiki/Fida%27i" title="Fida'i">Fida'i</a> it is the same but wikilinked to <a href="/wiki/Palestinian_fedayeen" title="Palestinian fedayeen">Palestinian fedayeen</a> which I think might not really be right. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.nationalanthems.info/ps.htm">http://www.nationalanthems.info/ps.htm</a> seems more right but I am not sure. Thoughts? <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) 15:14, 25 January 2021 (UTC) @<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a>: Would you happen to know about this?<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2021-01-25T15:14:00.000Z-Title_of_Palestine_National_Anthem" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 25 January 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Nup. I always squirm whenever my ears twitch at the resonance of any national anthem in the proximate environment, and when forced to listen to <a href="/wiki/Advance_Australia_Fair" title="Advance Australia Fair">Advance Australia Fair</a> recited rebelliously <a href="/wiki/Banjo_Paterson" title="Banjo Paterson">Banjo Paterson</a>'s <a href="/wiki/Waltzing_Matilda" title="Waltzing Matilda">Waltzing Matilda</a> to blot out the nationalistic rumour of the former. And were I Palestinian I certainly wouldn't recite Fida'i, but rather drown out its dull burr by murmuring any number of things from <a href="/wiki/Mahmoud_Darwish" title="Mahmoud Darwish">Mahmoud Darwish</a>, perhaps his advice to a poet, which would fall on deaf ears for anyone passionate about 'anthems' of nationalistic self-endorsement. Sorry <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2021-01-25T19:36:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2021-01-25T15:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:36, 25 January 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">User:Selfstudier</a>; I don't read Arabic, you should perhaps ask one who does. And it is the same editor who has changed it both at <a href="/wiki/State_of_Palestine" title="State of Palestine">State of Palestine</a> and <a href="/wiki/Fida%27i" title="Fida'i">Fida'i</a>. My impression was that Fida'i is not an easy translatable concept (much like <a href="/wiki/Jihad" title="Jihad">Jihad</a>) (and as <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.nationalanthems.info/ps.htm">http://www.nationalanthems.info/ps.htm</a> says), so therefor we should perhaps not attempt any translation? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-01-25T20:17:00.000Z-Nishidani-2021-01-25T19:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 25 January 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Let_me_know" data-mw-thread-id="h-Let_me_know-2021-03-12T15:27:00.000Z">Let me know</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=88" title="Edit section: Let me know">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> if there are more problems with <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Batsquatch">[25]</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2021-03-12T15:27:00.000Z-Let_me_know" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:27, 12 March 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ANI" data-mw-thread-id="h-ANI-2021-03-30T18:33:00.000Z">ANI</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=89" title="Edit section: ANI">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I mentioned you and a new admirer you seem to have attracted at ANI. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ANI#User:Geez_Mindhack" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ANI">WP:ANI#User:Geez Mindhack</a>. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2021-03-30T18:33:00.000Z-ANI" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:33, 30 March 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="hello_dears" data-mw-thread-id="h-hello_dears-2021-04-26T16:09:00.000Z">hello dears</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=90" title="Edit section: hello dears">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Trying to get back to a minimal but daily contribution again, but very difficult without a computer. Just lost an edit i worked on for a good half hour when the page inexplicably refreshed without saving. Anyway, i have to find a way to make this functional. Missing you very much and so happy to see you and <a href="/wiki/User:Nableezy" title="User:Nableezy">User:Nableezy</a> (among many others) still here. <a href="/wiki/User:Tiamut" title="User:Tiamut">Tiamut</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tiamut" title="User talk:Tiamut">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Tiamut-2021-04-26T16:09:00.000Z-hello_dears" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:09, 26 April 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Wonderful to see you again, <a href="/wiki/User:Tiamut" title="User:Tiamut">User:Tiamut</a>; please check your email (if you have the same as be4?), cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-04-26T20:49:00.000Z-Tiamut-2021-04-26T16:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:49, 26 April 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Yayyyyy <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2021-04-27T17:59:00.000Z-Tiamut-2021-04-26T16:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 27 April 2021 (UTC)</a> 17:59, 27 April 2021 (UTC)[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Whoohooo! :) <a href="/wiki/User:Tiamut" title="User:Tiamut">Tiamut</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tiamut" title="User talk:Tiamut">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Tiamut-2021-04-29T21:05:00.000Z-Nableezy-2021-04-27T17:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 29 April 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File/Thumb"><a href="/wiki/File:Porto_(31612879447).gif" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Porto_%2831612879447%29.gif/220px-Porto_%2831612879447%29.gif" decoding="async" width="220" height="165" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Porto_%2831612879447%29.gif/330px-Porto_%2831612879447%29.gif 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/Porto_%2831612879447%29.gif/440px-Porto_%2831612879447%29.gif 2x" data-file-width="640" data-file-height="480"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Break" data-mw-thread-id="h-Break-2021-05-18T01:01:00.000Z">Break</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=91" title="Edit section: Break">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I don't know if I'm doing this right. @Huldra you can use WP:INVOLVED to reverse Administrators @NonReproBlue and @Skllagyook when they are involved in a dispute, if you wish I think ... <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eran_Elhaik&type=revision&diff=1023216318&oldid=1023185193">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eran_Elhaik&type=revision&diff=1023216318&oldid=1023185193</a> I have an ARBPIA violation, see ... search Benassi, at bottom. I learned a lot, it has been good working with you. I will focus on other Wikipedia projects. Thanks. <pre><a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:SteveBenassi_WP:NOTHERE:_edit_warring/intentionally_disruptive_edits">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:SteveBenassi_WP:NOTHERE:_edit_warring/intentionally_disruptive_edits</a> </pre> See .. SteveBenassi, you can tell who an admin is via <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=1&username=Fences%20and%20windows">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&limit=1&username=Fences%20and%20windows</a> or equivalent. Neither Nishidani nor Huldra are admins. Admins are also editors, we just have community trust to use tools like blocks, protection, and deletion. However, admins may not use their tools or close discussions when they have been involved in a dispute. See WP:INVOLVED. ... and ... @Fences and windows: The edit war involved 5 people over 1 edit, @Huldra and myself vs two administrators @Skllagyook and @NonReproBlue and user @Shrike, over the following edit <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eran_Elhaik&type=revision&diff=1023216318&oldid=1023185193">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Eran_Elhaik&type=revision&diff=1023216318&oldid=1023185193</a> . @Huldra asked @NonReproBlue to "Please take it to a RfC if you disagree", @NonReproBlue refused and continued to edit war, shutting down the debate, which is not allowed according to your words above. @NonReproBlue and @Skllagyook object to my edit comments "Using original quote from news article. Showing Ostrer is a Zionist and biased, and that his research is suspect. See ... <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Ostrer#Criticisms">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Ostrer#Criticisms</a>" Did I violate ARBPIA, and why am I solely blamed for this edit war? What we have here are two administrators with unknown backgrounds, objecting to a new paper, The Geography of Jewish Ethnogenesis, that goes against their POV, while also protecting Harry Ostrer who refuses to share his data with Eran Elhaik, because it endangers a major justification for Israel's right to exist in Palestine, DNA. SteveBenassi (talk) 11:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC) <a href="/wiki/User:SteveBenassi" title="User:SteveBenassi">SteveBenassi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SteveBenassi" title="User talk:SteveBenassi">talk</a>) 01:01, 18 May 2021 (UTC) <a href="/wiki/User:SteveBenassi" title="User:SteveBenassi">SteveBenassi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SteveBenassi" title="User talk:SteveBenassi">talk</a>) 01:15, 18 May 2021 (UTC) <a href="/wiki/User:SteveBenassi" title="User:SteveBenassi">SteveBenassi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SteveBenassi" title="User talk:SteveBenassi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-SteveBenassi-2021-05-18T01:01:00.000Z-Break" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:17, 18 May 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:SteveBenassi" title="User:SteveBenassi">SteveBenassi</a>: I can see whether someone is an admin (and also their status as extended-confirmed etc) just by hovering my mouse over their signature or linked username. Is that not true for everyone? Neither Skllagyook nor NonReproBlue are administrators. In any case, administrators can enforce policy but they don't have a greater say in ordinary content disputes. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2021-05-18T02:09:00.000Z-SteveBenassi-2021-05-18T01:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:09, 18 May 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero0000</a>: Thanks for the info Zero, and thanks for the help in the RS debate, I am told you are a high level administrator. Regarding the mouse hover you discuss, I get nothing.</dd></dl> <a href="/wiki/User:SteveBenassi" title="User:SteveBenassi">SteveBenassi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SteveBenassi" title="User talk:SteveBenassi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-SteveBenassi-2021-05-18T10:49:00.000Z-Break" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:49, 18 May 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero0000</a>: This is what you are talking about I think... <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation_popups</a> <a href="/wiki/User:SteveBenassi" title="User:SteveBenassi">SteveBenassi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SteveBenassi" title="User talk:SteveBenassi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-SteveBenassi-2021-05-18T13:46:00.000Z-Break" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:46, 18 May 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:SteveBenassi" title="User:SteveBenassi">User:SteveBenassi</a>: I am sorry, but I am really occupied in RL (=Real Life) just now, I will (probably) not be back before a couple of weeks,</dd> <dd>As for finding out who is an admin; just click at the "contribution" button (for any user), and you will see something like this: <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Huldra">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Huldra</a> -click on that, and then at the bottom of the page, you will see a line with:</dd> <dd>"Huldra: Subpages User rights Edit count Edit summary search Articles created Global: contributions log accounts(meta)".</dd> <dd>Click on the third link, "User rights", and you will see what user rights an editor have. (Neither Skllagyook, Shrike, NonReproBlue, Nishidani or myself are admins)</dd> <dd>And as Zero0000 said; an administrator can never, ever do an "admin act" (say, like blocking someone) in the area s/he is involved with: That would mean instant "de-adminning" (ie, loss of admin rights), (I know certain ill-informed off-wiki sites indicate something different: they are wrong, plain and simple)</dd> <dd>See you all in a couple of weeks, I hope, Cheers for now, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-05-18T20:50:00.000Z-SteveBenassi-2021-05-18T13:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:50, 18 May 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_cookie_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_cookie_for_you!-2021-07-05T20:47:00.000Z">A cookie for you!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=92" title="Edit section: A cookie for you!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><a href="/wiki/File:Choco_chip_cookie.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Choco_chip_cookie.png/120px-Choco_chip_cookie.png" decoding="async" width="120" height="84" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Choco_chip_cookie.png/180px-Choco_chip_cookie.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b4/Choco_chip_cookie.png/240px-Choco_chip_cookie.png 2x" data-file-width="800" data-file-height="557"/></a> </td> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">Free cookies for Wikipedians! <a href="/wiki/User:Visnelma" title="User:Visnelma">V. E.</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Visnelma" title="User talk:Visnelma">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Visnelma-2021-07-05T20:47:00.000Z-A_cookie_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:47, 5 July 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Visnelma" title="User:Visnelma">V. E.</a> : Yummi, thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-07-05T20:48:00.000Z-Visnelma-2021-07-05T20:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 5 July 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Incomplete_DYK_nomination" data-mw-thread-id="h-Incomplete_DYK_nomination-2021-07-08T02:53:00.000Z">Incomplete DYK nomination</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=93" title="Edit section: Incomplete DYK nomination">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_question.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/25px-Symbol_question.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="26" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/38px-Symbol_question.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/50px-Symbol_question.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a> Hello! Your submission of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Safad_El_Battikh&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh (page does not exist)">Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh</a> at the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:DYK" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:DYK">Did You Know nominations page</a> is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#How_to_post_a_new_nomination" title="Template talk:Did you know">step 3 of the nomination procedure</a>. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Db-g7" title="Template:Db-g7">db-g7</a>}}, or ask a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Admins" title="Wikipedia:Did you know/Admins">DYK admin</a>. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:DYKHousekeepingBot" title="User:DYKHousekeepingBot">DYKHousekeepingBot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DYKHousekeepingBot" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:DYKHousekeepingBot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-DYKHousekeepingBot-2021-07-08T02:53:00.000Z-Incomplete_DYK_nomination" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:53, 8 July 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Incomplete_DYK_nomination_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Incomplete_DYK_nomination_2-2021-07-10T02:56:00.000Z">Incomplete DYK nomination</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=94" title="Edit section: Incomplete DYK nomination">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_question.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/25px-Symbol_question.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="26" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/38px-Symbol_question.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/50px-Symbol_question.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a> Hello! Your submission of <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal" title="Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal">Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal</a> at the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:DYK" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:DYK">Did You Know nominations page</a> is not complete; if you would like to continue, please link the nomination to the nominations page as described in <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know#How_to_post_a_new_nomination" title="Template talk:Did you know">step 3 of the nomination procedure</a>. If you do not want to continue with the nomination, tag the nomination page with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Db-g7" title="Template:Db-g7">db-g7</a>}}, or ask a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Admins" title="Wikipedia:Did you know/Admins">DYK admin</a>. Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:DYKHousekeepingBot" title="User:DYKHousekeepingBot">DYKHousekeepingBot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DYKHousekeepingBot" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:DYKHousekeepingBot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-DYKHousekeepingBot-2021-07-10T02:56:00.000Z-Incomplete_DYK_nomination_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:56, 10 July 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DYK_nomination_of_Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal" data-mw-thread-id="h-DYK_nomination_of_Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal-2021-07-31T14:48:00.000Z">DYK nomination of Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=95" title="Edit section: DYK nomination of Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_question.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/25px-Symbol_question.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="26" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/38px-Symbol_question.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Symbol_question.svg/50px-Symbol_question.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a> Hello! Your submission of <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal" title="Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal">Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal</a> at the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:DYK" class="mw-redirect" title="Template talk:DYK">Did You Know nominations page</a> has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal" title="Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal">your nomination's entry</a> and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! <a href="/wiki/User:Chidgk1" title="User:Chidgk1">Chidgk1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chidgk1" title="User talk:Chidgk1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Chidgk1-2021-07-31T14:48:00.000Z-DYK_nomination_of_Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:48, 31 July 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Huldra, please stop by the nomination; there is an issue with the QPQ submission. Thank you very much. <a href="/wiki/User:BlueMoonset" title="User:BlueMoonset">BlueMoonset</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BlueMoonset" title="User talk:BlueMoonset">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-BlueMoonset-2021-08-14T15:26:00.000Z-Chidgk1-2021-07-31T14:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:26, 14 August 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Wikipedia_Wars_and_the_Israel-Palestine_conflict...please_fill_out_my_survey?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Wikipedia_Wars_and_the_Israel-Palestine_conflict...please_fill_out_my_survey?-2021-07-20T20:26:00.000Z">Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict...please fill out my survey?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=96" title="Edit section: Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict...please fill out my survey?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello :) I am writing my MA dissertation on Wikipedia Wars and the Israel-Palestine conflict, and I noticed that you have contributed to those pages. My dissertation will look at the process of collaborative knowledge production on the Israel-Palestine conflict, and the effect it has on bias in the articles. This will involve understanding the profiles and motivations of editors, contention/controversy and dispute resolution in the talk pages, and bias in the final article. For more information, you can check out my <a class="external text" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Research:Wikipedia_Wars_and_the_Israel-Palestine_Conflict">meta-wiki research page</a> or my <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sarabnas">user page</a>, where I will be posting my findings when I am done. I would greatly appreciate if you could take 5 minutes to fill out <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdriEAkTQCq5Us26lxEqbjfw4jh3ktqTLaE8FN7fYY7Eph1Fw/viewform?usp=sf_link">this quick survey</a> before 8 August 2021. Participation in this survey is entirely voluntary and anonymous. There are no foreseeable risks nor benefits to you associated with this project. Thanks so much, Sarah Sanbar <a href="/wiki/User:Sarabnas" title="User:Sarabnas">Sarabnas</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Sarabnas" title="User:Sarabnas">I'm researching Wikipedia</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sarabnas" title="User talk:Sarabnas">Questions?</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Sarabnas-2021-07-20T20:26:00.000Z-Wikipedia_Wars_and_the_Israel-Palestine_conflict...please_fill_out_my_survey?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 20 July 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Askar" data-mw-thread-id="h-Askar-2021-07-23T23:59:00.000Z">Askar</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=97" title="Edit section: Askar">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I was going to ask for your help with the Askar draft but you beat me to it! Anything you could add would be much appreciated. —<a href="/wiki/User:Al_Ameer_son" title="User:Al Ameer son">Al Ameer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Al_Ameer_son" title="User talk:Al Ameer son">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Al_Ameer_son-2021-07-23T23:59:00.000Z-Askar" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:59, 23 July 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Searchable_Ottoman_records" data-mw-thread-id="h-Searchable_Ottoman_records-2021-08-12T15:44:00.000Z">Searchable Ottoman records</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=98" title="Edit section: Searchable Ottoman records">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello again, For info: I have added Wikilala to <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#External_links">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire#External_links</a> and written to them to ask about tax records (defter) as maybe they have not yet added them <a href="/wiki/User:Chidgk1" title="User:Chidgk1">Chidgk1</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chidgk1" title="User talk:Chidgk1">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Chidgk1-2021-08-12T15:44:00.000Z-Searchable_Ottoman_records" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:44, 12 August 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks <a href="/wiki/User:Chidgk1" title="User:Chidgk1">User:Chidgk1</a>! One day we hopefully will have access to the original <a href="/wiki/Defter" title="Defter">defter</a>, then we could link every village in <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/HA" title="User:Huldra/HA">User:Huldra/HA</a> to its original 1596-defter :), Alas; I would view that as a long-term project; not solved this year :) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-08-12T20:15:00.000Z-Chidgk1-2021-08-12T15:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:15, 12 August 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Message" data-mw-thread-id="h-Message-2021-08-20T22:09:00.000Z">Message</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=99" title="Edit section: Message">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, I wanted to point out that the more correct translation for Baqa Al-Gharbiyye is "Western Baqa". I'm a local Arab from Israel and know people from that city. They are also not "regular" Palestinians, there are big differences between them and the ones on the other side of the border, conflating them and Palestinians may be confusing to readers since the majority refer to themselves as "Arab citizens of Israel" or sometimes "Israeli Arabs". "an Arab city" is a more neutral approach that doesn't dictate people's identities, opinions vary a lot here. The same goes for pretty much most Arabs in the triangle, regarding the Triangle region edit. Sorry for the inconvenience and thanks for your time! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ErickStern17&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ErickStern17 (page does not exist)">ErickStern17</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ErickStern17" title="User talk:ErickStern17">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-ErickStern17-2021-08-20T22:09:00.000Z-Message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:09, 20 August 2021 (UTC)</a>ErickStern17[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:ErickStern17&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:ErickStern17 (page does not exist)">User:ErickStern17</a>; if you read the message in the template, you will see that editors need to fulfill the 30/500 criteria in order to edit Israel/Palestine subjects. That it: they must have been registred for at least 30 days and have at least 500 edits to other areas on Wikipedia; cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-08-20T22:14:00.000Z-ErickStern17-2021-08-20T22:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 20 August 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="AE_(August_2021)" data-mw-thread-id="h-AE_(August_2021)-2021-08-31T08:26:00.000Z">AE (August 2021)</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=100" title="Edit section: AE (August 2021)">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Huldra, just an FYI that I've <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1041572390#Vanlister" title="Special:PermanentLink/1041572390">closed</a> the AE request you filed regarding Vanlister without any action being taken. <a href="/wiki/User:Callanecc" title="User:Callanecc">Callanecc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Callanecc" title="User talk:Callanecc">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Callanecc" title="Special:Contributions/Callanecc">contribs</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Callanecc" title="Special:Log/Callanecc">logs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Callanecc-2021-08-31T08:26:00.000Z-AE_(August_2021)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Callanecc" title="User:Callanecc">User:Callanecc</a>; thank you for informing me, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-08-31T20:01:00.000Z-Callanecc-2021-08-31T08:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:01, 31 August 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="AE_(September_2021)" data-mw-thread-id="h-AE_(September_2021)-2021-09-02T15:53:00.000Z">AE (September 2021)</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=101" title="Edit section: AE (September 2021)">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Huldra">[26]</a> --<a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Shrike-2021-09-02T15:53:00.000Z-AE_(September_2021)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:53, 2 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Interesting, Shrike. All must have noted the curious dropping in on the article of a certain <a href="/wiki/User:Shadybabs" title="User:Shadybabs">User:Shadybabs</a> with in 3 years a bare 547 edits, 47 just over the qualifying 500, bursting in out of the blue(s) to cut the Gordian knot of lack of consensus by eviscerating the text to lend a hand to the minority on the talk page and their POV. Not only I observed also that, popping up out of the blue, Shadybabs intervened to restore the text which reflected your own revert on that page while everyone was discussing the pros and cons on the talk page. And we must have all remarked that this 'newbie' (not in my book) broke 1R. No one reported that - perhaps the massive headache of the extremely messy argufying on the talk page meant no one had time to. Perhaps, one is too focused on further research to have one's time wasted. Perhaps, certainly in my case, one just ignores bad form and presses on.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Well, there you go. The person who did 90% of the page's encyclopedic and historical content, reading arcane scholarly works, and, if I recall, slipped up by a mere minute in reverting back to a decent form this troubled article, is, you think, the problem, and deserves an AE sanction. The other chap, obviously helping to game the article, and clearly a low-performing usual nuisance in a POV numbers game, gets a free pass. Glad to see that you have the best interests of the encyclopedia at heart.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2021-09-02T17:02:00.000Z-Shrike-2021-09-02T15:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 2 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You think <a href="/wiki/User:Shadybabs" title="User:Shadybabs">User:Shadybabs</a> shares <a href="/wiki/User:Shrike" title="User:Shrike">Shrike</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shrike" title="User talk:Shrike">talk</a>)'s and opposes Huldra's (in general, <a href="/wiki/Tira,_Israel" title="Tira, Israel">Tira, Israel</a> edit aside)? Spend a little more time reading his contributions. This is funny. <a href="/wiki/User:Inf-in_MD" title="User:Inf-in MD">Inf-in MD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Inf-in_MD" title="User talk:Inf-in MD">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Inf-in_MD-2021-09-02T17:28:00.000Z-Nishidani-2021-09-02T17:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:28, 2 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>Just imagine somebody leaving California for Maryland. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-2021-09-02T17:46:00.000Z-Shrike-2021-09-02T15:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:46, 2 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>I've closed this AE request with a reminder to you to be cautious of the one revert rule in this topic area. <a href="/wiki/User:Callanecc" title="User:Callanecc">Callanecc</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Callanecc" title="User talk:Callanecc">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Callanecc" title="Special:Contributions/Callanecc">contribs</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Callanecc" title="Special:Log/Callanecc">logs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Callanecc-2021-09-04T06:19:00.000Z-Shrike-2021-09-02T15:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:19, 4 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DYK_for_Safad_El_Battikh" data-mw-thread-id="h-DYK_for_Safad_El_Battikh-2021-09-09T00:03:00.000Z">DYK for Safad El Battikh</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=102" title="Edit section: DYK for Safad El Battikh">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><a href="/wiki/File:Updated_DYK_query.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/40px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="81" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/60px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/80px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="35" data-file-height="71"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> On <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2021/September#9_September_2021" title="Wikipedia:Recent additions/2021/September">9 September 2021</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know" title="Template:Did you know">Did you know</a> was updated with a fact from the article <a href="/wiki/Safad_El_Battikh" class="mw-redirect" title="Safad El Battikh">Safad El Battikh</a>, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the <a href="/wiki/Southern_Lebanon" title="Southern Lebanon">Southern Lebanese</a> villages of <a href="/wiki/Safad_El_Battikh" class="mw-redirect" title="Safad El Battikh">Safad El Battikh</a>, <a href="/wiki/Kafra,_Lebanon" class="mw-redirect" title="Kafra, Lebanon">Kafra</a> and <a href="/wiki/Ayta_al-Jabal" title="Ayta al-Jabal">Ayta al-Jabal</a> were mentioned in 1596 <a href="/wiki/Defter" title="Defter">Ottoman tax records</a>? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Safad_El_Battikh,_Kafra,_Lebanon_and_Ayta_al-Jabal" title="Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal">Template:Did you know nominations/Safad El Battikh, Kafra, Lebanon and Ayta al-Jabal</a>. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (<a href="/wiki/User:Rjanag/Pageview_stats" title="User:Rjanag/Pageview stats">here's how</a>, <a class="external text" href="//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2021-08-30&end=2021-09-19&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Safad_El_Battikh">Safad El Battikh</a>), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Statistics" title="Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics">the statistics page</a>. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know" title="Template talk:Did you know">Did you know talk page</a>. </div> </div> <a href="/wiki/User:Valereee" title="User:Valereee">—valereee</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Valereee" title="User talk:Valereee">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Valereee-2021-09-09T00:03:00.000Z-DYK_for_Safad_El_Battikh" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 9 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Military_government" data-mw-thread-id="h-Military_government-2021-09-17T10:36:00.000Z">Military government</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=103" title="Edit section: Military government">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Do we have an article on the military government? I can only find a section at <a href="/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel" title="Arab citizens of Israel">Arab citizens of Israel</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2021-09-17T10:36:00.000Z-Military_government" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:36, 17 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You mean the one lasting until 1966? No, we don't, and we obviously should.</dd> <dd>Unfortunately; A: I don't have many sources of post-48 (except some elementary, like <a href="/wiki/Sabri_Jiryis" title="Sabri Jiryis">Sabri Jiryis</a> etc), B) also: RL affairs, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-09-17T23:07:00.000Z-Zero0000-2021-09-17T10:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:07, 17 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_cupcake_for_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_cupcake_for_you!-2021-09-27T13:57:00.000Z">A cupcake for you!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=104" title="Edit section: A cupcake for you!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><a href="/wiki/File:Choco-Nut_Bake_with_Meringue_Top_cropped.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Choco-Nut_Bake_with_Meringue_Top_cropped.jpg/120px-Choco-Nut_Bake_with_Meringue_Top_cropped.jpg" decoding="async" width="120" height="90" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Choco-Nut_Bake_with_Meringue_Top_cropped.jpg/180px-Choco-Nut_Bake_with_Meringue_Top_cropped.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/Choco-Nut_Bake_with_Meringue_Top_cropped.jpg/240px-Choco-Nut_Bake_with_Meringue_Top_cropped.jpg 2x" data-file-width="936" data-file-height="702"/></a> </td> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">Enjoy the cupcake! <a href="/wiki/User:AKapkin" title="User:AKapkin">AKapkin</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:AKapkin" title="User talk:AKapkin">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-AKapkin-2021-09-27T13:57:00.000Z-A_cupcake_for_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:57, 27 September 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Help_w_sockpuppet_investigation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Help_w_sockpuppet_investigation-2021-10-03T21:13:00.000Z">Help w sockpuppet investigation</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=105" title="Edit section: Help w sockpuppet investigation">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Huldra! I recently opened a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Riyadhcafe87" title="Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Riyadhcafe87">sockpuppet investigation into Riyadhcafe87</a> and a bunch of other editors adding pr/being paid to edit on public investmend fund/saudi arabia articles. Your insights would be really valuable there if you know of any related articles which could also be affected by possible sockpuppets of riyadh or part of their network. <a href="/wiki/User:A._C._Santacruz" class="mw-redirect" title="User:A. C. Santacruz">A. C. Santacruz </a> ⁂ <a href="/wiki/User_talk:A._C._Santacruz" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:A. C. Santacruz">Talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-A._C._Santacruz-2021-10-03T21:13:00.000Z-Help_w_sockpuppet_investigation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:13, 3 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:A._C._Santacruz" class="mw-redirect" title="User:A. C. Santacruz">User:A._C._Santacruz</a>: I doubt they are so stupid as to use socks out-right. These cases tend more to have <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:MEAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:MEAT">WP:MEAT</a> trouble, anyway; I'll take a look, cheers <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-10-03T21:36:00.000Z-A._C._Santacruz-2021-10-03T21:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 3 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Moroccan_Quarter" data-mw-thread-id="h-Moroccan_Quarter-2021-10-10T21:38:00.000Z">Moroccan Quarter</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=106" title="Edit section: Moroccan Quarter">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello Huldra I don't have an account So I can't revert this edit <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Moroccan_Quarter&diff=1049234345&oldid=1034599647">[27]</a> to how it was. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/197.153.3.42" title="Special:Contributions/197.153.3.42">197.153.3.42</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:197.153.3.42&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:197.153.3.42 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-197.153.3.42-2021-10-10T21:38:00.000Z-Moroccan_Quarter" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 10 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Hi, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:197.153.3.42&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:197.153.3.42 (page does not exist)">User:197.153.3.42</a>, your revert has been undone, so I don't know what you would have me do? Any name-change should obviously be discussed on the article's talk-page, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-10-10T22:16:00.000Z-197.153.3.42-2021-10-10T21:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 10 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="You're_tangentially_involved_in_an_ANI_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-You're_tangentially_involved_in_an_ANI_discussion-2021-10-13T19:35:00.000Z">You're tangentially involved in an ANI discussion</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=107" title="Edit section: You're tangentially involved in an ANI discussion">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I wanted to notify you that you're tangentially involved in an issue I've raised at ANI in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Tendentious_editing_by_two_users_at_Talk:StandWithUs" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">this discussion</a>. Thanks! ezlev (<a href="/wiki/User:Ezlev" title="User:Ezlev">user</a>/<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ezlev" title="User talk:Ezlev">tlk</a>/<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Ezlev" title="Special:Contributions/Ezlev">ctrbs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Ezlev-2021-10-13T19:35:00.000Z-You're_tangentially_involved_in_an_ANI_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:35, 13 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Draft_for_WP:ARCA" data-mw-thread-id="h-Draft_for_WP:ARCA-2021-10-22T04:55:00.000Z">Draft for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARCA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARCA">WP:ARCA</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=108" title="Edit section: Draft for WP:ARCA">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Proposal: any sanctions in place due to a report initiated by an Icewhiz sock it´s automatically rescinded. Why: at the moment Icewhiz wins, even when he lose. His socks might be banned, but the sanctions against other editors remain in place. Examples: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive278#Onceinawhile" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive278">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive278#Onceinawhile</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive294#Iskandar323_(2)" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive294">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive294#Iskandar323_(2)</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive294#Result_concerning_ZScarpia" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive294">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive294#Result_concerning_ZScarpia</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive428#User:Jontel_reported_by_User:11Fox11_(Result:_Topic_banned)" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive428">Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive428#User:Jontel_reported_by_User:11Fox11_(Result:_Topic_banned)</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RRArchive422#User:ImTheIP_reported_by_User:11Fox11_(Result:_Both_warned)" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive422">Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive422#User:ImTheIP_reported_by_User:11Fox11_(Result:_Both_warned)</a></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>I posted this in the discussion on the noticeboard, but I'll add it here to make sure you see it: It is not necessary to appeal straight to ArbCom in order to overturn a specific, discrete list of AE sanctions, and in fact I would strenuously urge against it. A clear consensus at either AE or AN could also overturn them. AN in particular is a better place to start - this would only affect those specific cases, but would clearly set a precedent that is better weighed by the entire community. Additionally, it is possible to continue an appeal to ArbCom if it fails at AE or AN, but once ArbCom rejects it it can no longer be taken elsewhere (I find it hard to imagine that ArbCom would actually overturn them if AN clearly declined to, but procedurally it is a point to remember.) Additionally, a clear success at AN could make it easier to convince ArbCom to change the rules of AE to make it easier to overturn sanctions stemming from cases brought by sockpuppets in the future. What I would specifically suggest is a bit more discussion to get a sense of where people stand, whether this is worth pursing at all, and what sort of proposal would work best, followed by an RFC at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AN">WP:AN</a> clearly worded to allow people to easily either argue for overturning all, overturning none, or overturning some specific subset of them. (Note that the RFC or discussion must be held at AN, and nowhere else; per the wording <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Discretionary_sanctions#Modifications_by_administrators" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions">here</a>, community consensus can only overturn an AE sanction if it emerges there specifically.) --<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aquillion" title="User talk:Aquillion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Aquillion-2021-10-22T04:55:00.000Z-Draft_for_WP:ARCA" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:55, 22 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> (off the above topic a bit) <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a> - Only auto-confirmed users may file requests for arbitration enforcement, correct? How about making the same requirement to comment at AE? There were cases of brand new sockpuppets reporting established users - such as this one, for example--><a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=922340243#Piotrus">[28]</a> but also many appeared to comment, as we all know. - <a href="/wiki/User:GizzyCatBella" title="User:GizzyCatBella">GizzyCatBella</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GizzyCatBella" title="User talk:GizzyCatBella">🍁</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-GizzyCatBella-2021-10-22T06:52:00.000Z-Draft_for_WP:ARCA" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:52, 22 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a> - RfC's and noticeboards are other persistent issues. Just take a glimpse at this one<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_355&diff=prev&oldid=1050823819&diffmode=source#RfC:_Polish_sources">[29]</a> and notice the number of brand new accounts commenting alongside blocked Astral Leap. - <a href="/wiki/User:GizzyCatBella" title="User:GizzyCatBella">GizzyCatBella</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:GizzyCatBella" title="User talk:GizzyCatBella">🍁</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-GizzyCatBella-2021-10-22T07:09:00.000Z-GizzyCatBella-2021-10-22T06:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:09, 22 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Undoubtedly, but an RFC at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AN">WP:AN</a> still feels like the most natural way to proceed to me. If sockpuppets come out of the woodwork to comment there it will be a chance to catch them; if the result is close and there's reason to suspect sockpuppetry that can be followed up on; and if all else fails going to ArbCom from there is at least notionally an option. Going straight to ArbCom without any sort of attempt to get a community consensus on something that would clearly set a major precedent seems like a losing proposition; ArbCom can make those decisions, but usually they'll want to see the if the community can resolve it first. And if an RFC runs for the full length of time and attracts large amounts of attention, there's a limit to what sockpuppetry can do - the <a href="/wiki/Race_and_Intelligence" class="mw-redirect" title="Race and Intelligence">Race and Intelligence</a> topic area has multiple persistent sockpuppets pushing fringe views, but they weren't able to swing the recent RFC on the topic, say. And honestly, right now, when there's just been a major sweep for sockpuppets, might be the best time for such an RFC - if IceWhiz rushes to create a bunch of new accounts just for this they'll be noticed without much difficulty. --<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aquillion" title="User talk:Aquillion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Aquillion-2021-10-22T07:33:00.000Z-GizzyCatBella-2021-10-22T07:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:33, 22 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Note that in the case of ARBPIA, non-500/30 editors are already forbidden from participation at AE and ANI. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel_articles#ARBPIA_General_Sanctions" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Index/Palestine-Israel articles">para 5B.1</a>. An option would be to extend this restriction to all areas. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2021-10-22T09:36:00.000Z-Aquillion-2021-10-22T07:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:36, 22 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Don't forget <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive325#Proposal:_indefinite_block" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive325">Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Archive325#Proposal:_indefinite_block</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Piotrus" title="User:Piotrus">Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus</a>|<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Piotrus" title="User talk:Piotrus"> reply here</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Piotrus-2021-10-24T10:25:00.000Z-Draft_for_WP:ARCA" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:25, 24 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Which was a good block despite being instigated by an Icewhiz sock. <a href="/wiki/User:Doug_Weller" title="User:Doug Weller">Doug Weller</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Doug_Weller" title="User talk:Doug Weller">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Doug_Weller-2021-10-24T10:35:00.000Z-Piotrus-2021-10-24T10:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:35, 24 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> I sympathize with the idea of this proposal although it seems to be case specific, Icewhiz. Why would it not apply to any other sock initiated process? Maybe this idea together with the hatted material (and parts of the subsequent discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard">Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee/Noticeboard</a> could be used to form the basis of a discussion at ANI talk page, might get more input there as well.<a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2021-10-24T10:53:00.000Z-Draft_for_WP:ARCA" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:53, 24 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Although AN can modify or remove any existing AE sanction, they don't have the ability to AE procedure itself; only ArbCom can do that. So if the goal is to make it easier to appeal or reverse sock-initiated AE processes in the future it will be necessary to go through ArbCom. And as far as that goes, I think it would be easier and more reasonable to start by asking AN to review these specific AE sanctions; if there's a clear consensus to reverse or reduce some or all of them, then that could be taken to ArbCom to make an argument for modifying AE procedure based on "see, the community wants this, so here's our requests for how you could make it simpler next time." --<a href="/wiki/User:Aquillion" title="User:Aquillion">Aquillion</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Aquillion" title="User talk:Aquillion">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Aquillion-2021-10-24T19:50:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2021-10-24T10:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:50, 24 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes, if you want ArbCom to modify the AE procedure in this manner first demonstrate support for the principal, then workshop a proposal for a specific change, demonstrate community support for the proposal (not necessarily consensus, as long as its clear there is support and there isn't a consensus against), then present this to arbcom. Personally, I support reviewing all these sanctions but I oppose automatically reversing them. <a href="/wiki/User:Thryduulf" title="User:Thryduulf">Thryduulf</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Thryduulf" title="User talk:Thryduulf">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Thryduulf-2021-10-25T17:08:00.000Z-Aquillion-2021-10-24T19:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:08, 25 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Sorry all: I am super-occupied in RL at the moment (and will be for at least a month forward), see you all in a months time, or so! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-10-26T20:04:00.000Z-Thryduulf-2021-10-25T17:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 26 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="This_may_interest_you" data-mw-thread-id="h-This_may_interest_you-2021-10-26T16:43:00.000Z">This may interest you</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=109" title="Edit section: This may interest you">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> A <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.hadashot-esi.org.il/Report_Detail_Eng.aspx?id=26065">new report was published today on the Israel Antiquities Authority's website, detailing the survey of Bureir</a>. It contains a splendid description of the site. I may want to add the information to the <a href="/wiki/Burayr" title="Burayr">Burayr</a> article but I am afraid I won't find time for it.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-2021-10-26T16:43:00.000Z-This_may_interest_you" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:43, 26 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">User:Bolter21</a>; the problem is that I am super-occupied in RL at the moment (and will be for at least a month forward), Anyway, I see nishidani has added stuff to <a href="/wiki/Burayr" title="Burayr">Burayr‎</a>; see you all in a months time, or so! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-10-26T20:04:00.000Z-Bolter21-2021-10-26T16:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:04, 26 October 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2021_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2021_Elections_voter_message-2021-11-23T00:03:00.000Z">ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=110" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2021 Elections voter message">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table class="messagebox" style="border: 1px solid #AAA; background: ivory; padding: 0.5em; width: 100%;"> <tbody><tr><td style="vertical-align:middle; padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></td><td>Hello! Voting in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2021" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2021">2021 Arbitration Committee elections</a> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 6 December 2021. All <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2021#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2021">eligible users</a> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2021 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2021/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2021/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/801" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/801">voting page</a>. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-2021-11-23T00:03:00.000Z-ArbCom_2021_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:03, 23 November 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td></tr> </tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Question" data-mw-thread-id="h-Question-2021-12-10T16:50:00.000Z">Question</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=111" title="Edit section: Question">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> In today's Haaretz, on reading Adam Raz, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT.MAGAZINE-classified-docs-reveal-deir-yassin-massacre-wasn-t-the-only-one-perpetrated-by-isra-1.10453626">Classified docs reveal massacres of Palestinians in '48 – and what Israeli leaders knew</a> <a href="/wiki/Haaretz" title="Haaretz">Haaretz</a> 9 December 2021 I note this <blockquote>The village of Al-Burj (today Modi’in) was also conquered in July 1948, in Operation Dani. According to a document, whose author is unknown, that was found in the Yad Yaari Archive, four elderly men remained in the village after its capture: “Hajj Ibrahim, who helped out in the military kitchen, a sick elderly woman and another elderly man and [elderly] woman.” Eight days after the village was conquered, the soldiers sent Ibrahim off to pick vegetables in order to distance him from what was about to occur. “The three others were taken to an isolated house. Afterward an antitank shell (‘Fiat’) was fired. When the shell missed the target, six hand grenades were thrown into the house. They killed an elderly man and woman, and the elderly woman was put to death with a firearm. Afterward they torched the house and burned the three bodies. When Hajj Ibrahim returned with his guard, he was told that the three others had been sent to the hospital in Ramallah. Apparently he didn’t believe the story, and a few hours later he too was put to death, with four bullets.”</blockquote> There are many Burjs. Is that in the area of <a href="/wiki/Modi%27in-Maccabim-Re%27ut" title="Modi'in-Maccabim-Re'ut">Modi'in-Maccabim-Re'ut</a>? No hurry-<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2021-12-10T16:50:00.000Z-Question" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:50, 10 December 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a>; that can only be <a href="/wiki/Al-Burj,_Ramle" title="Al-Burj, Ramle">Al-Burj, Ramle</a>, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2021-12-10T21:38:00.000Z-Nishidani-2021-12-10T16:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:38, 10 December 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Once again, thank goodness there are editors in here who know their stuff, have it at their fingertips (in your case, all ten, and perhaps one should adjust the idiom to include the toes (20), since you have a full nelson toehold on the topic as well:) Grazie mille.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2021-12-10T22:13:00.000Z-Huldra-2021-12-10T21:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 10 December 2021 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DYK_for_Reineh" data-mw-thread-id="h-DYK_for_Reineh-2022-01-04T12:03:00.000Z">DYK for Reineh</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=112" title="Edit section: DYK for Reineh">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><a href="/wiki/File:Updated_DYK_query.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/40px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="81" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/60px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/80px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="35" data-file-height="71"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> On <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2022/January#4_January_2022" title="Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/January">4 January 2022</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know" title="Template:Did you know">Did you know</a> was updated with a fact from the article <a href="/wiki/Reineh" title="Reineh">Reineh</a>, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the economy of <a href="/wiki/Reineh" title="Reineh">Reineh</a>, now in northern Israel, was so strong in the <a href="/wiki/Mamluk_Sultanate" title="Mamluk Sultanate">Mamluk</a> era that they could afford imported pottery from Syria and Italy? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Reineh" title="Template:Did you know nominations/Reineh">Template:Did you know nominations/Reineh</a>. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (<a href="/wiki/User:Rjanag/Pageview_stats" title="User:Rjanag/Pageview stats">here's how</a>, <a class="external text" href="//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2021-12-25&end=2022-01-14&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Reineh">Reineh</a>), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Statistics" title="Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics">the statistics page</a>. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know" title="Template talk:Did you know">Did you know talk page</a>. </div> </div> <a href="/wiki/User:Maile66" title="User:Maile66">— Maile </a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Maile66" title="User talk:Maile66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Maile66-2022-01-04T12:03:00.000Z-DYK_for_Reineh" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:03, 4 January 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well done, Huldra, and an embarrassed thanks for generously if rather exaggeratedly, mentioning that I had something to do, a mere patch, with what is 99% your work. Best (also for the upcoming year) <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2022-01-04T13:01:00.000Z-Maile66-2022-01-04T12:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:01, 4 January 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a>; that article has been on my "to do"-list for years; you starting to expand it was the "kick behind" I needed :) Best (corona-free) whishes for the New Year for you, too; <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-01-04T20:50:00.000Z-Nishidani-2022-01-04T13:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:50, 4 January 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Help" data-mw-thread-id="h-Help-2022-02-22T09:15:00.000Z">Help</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=113" title="Edit section: Help">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Dear Huldra, your ever-watchful eye will have seen my current work on various Lebanon articles using Middle East International. To show the credentials of MEI as a source I started a stub which has now been moved to <a href="/wiki/Draft:Middle_East_International" class="mw-redirect" title="Draft:Middle East International">Draft:Middle East International</a>. Do you have any advice? I have 20+ years of MEI on my shelves and have started with the reports from Lebanon because five years of my (happy) childhood was spent there, but if I live long enough I would like to move on to the reports from Palestine, particularly the First Intifada which I think is very poorly covered by Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:Padres_Hana" title="User:Padres Hana">Padres Hana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Padres_Hana" title="User talk:Padres Hana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Padres_Hana-2022-02-22T09:15:00.000Z-Help" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:15, 22 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Dear <a href="/wiki/User:Padres_Hana" title="User:Padres Hana">User:Padres Hana</a>; first of all: thank you for your excellent work on villages/towns in Lebanon: I find it heart-breaking that this country, with its ancient (and dramatic) history is as badly covered on en.wp as it is. Thank you for amending that! As for MEI; unfortunately I know next to nothing about this publication, perhaps <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">User:Zero0000</a> can help? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-02-23T21:04:00.000Z-Padres_Hana-2022-02-22T09:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:04, 23 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="14u" data-mw-thread-id="h-14u-2022-02-23T15:02:00.000Z">14u</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=114" title="Edit section: 14u">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Moshe Gilad, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-this-explorer-visited-israel-in-the-19th-century-and-found-it-to-be-anything-but-emp-1.10629520">'This Explorer Visited Israel in the 19th Century and Found It to Be Anything but Empty,'</a> <a href="/wiki/Haaretz" title="Haaretz">Haaretz</a> 22 February 2022 <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2022-02-23T15:02:00.000Z-14u" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:02, 23 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Thank, <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">User:Selfstudier</a>; having noted (some) of the places Guerin visited in <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Guerin" title="User:Huldra/Guerin">User:Huldra/Guerin</a>; I was hardly unaware that the country wasn't empty. :) Nice to have a proper English description of a few places though (my Google-translate doesn't exactly match..) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-02-23T21:16:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2022-02-23T15:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:16, 23 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Anniversary" data-mw-thread-id="h-Anniversary-2022-02-25T02:10:00.000Z">Anniversary</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=115" title="Edit section: Anniversary">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Today it is 20 years since my first edit. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2022-02-25T02:10:00.000Z-Anniversary" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:10, 25 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I remember when I was young(er), lol :) <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2022-02-25T09:16:00.000Z-Zero0000-2022-02-25T02:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:16, 25 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>From the Second Intifada to the invasion of Kiev. Here's to you still being hale to plunk in a final edit as Armageddon dawns. <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2022-02-25T09:50:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2022-02-25T09:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:50, 25 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">User:Zero0000</a>; Well, congrats, well done! --but something is wrong with the counter on your user-page? I see your first edit was 25 February 2002, ..but your edit-counter says "This user has been on Wikipedia for 19 years, 11 months and 27 days"? cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-02-25T22:17:00.000Z-Nishidani-2022-02-25T09:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:17, 25 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yeah, something was wrong with that calculation. My theories all went out the window when I deleted the infobox and put it back. Now it shows the right count. No idea why that made a difference. Thanks for the flowers. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2022-02-26T02:40:00.000Z-Huldra-2022-02-25T22:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:40, 26 February 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Ain_Dardara" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ain_Dardara-2022-03-31T13:15:00.000Z">Ain Dardara</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=116" title="Edit section: Ain Dardara">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Huldra. Any idea where Ain Dardara is? I have a report of it being a Hizbulloh training camp which was attacked on 2 June 1994 with 36 killed. Any clues? <a href="/wiki/User:Padres_Hana" title="User:Padres Hana">Padres Hana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Padres_Hana" title="User talk:Padres Hana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Padres_Hana-2022-03-31T13:15:00.000Z-Ain_Dardara" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:15, 31 March 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There is a useful gazetteer of places in Lebanon <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.fallingrain.com/world/LE/">here</a>. I see Ain Dara at 33.7806N, 35.7247E but Ain Dardara isn't there I think. Can it be the same place? <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2022-03-31T14:15:00.000Z-Padres_Hana-2022-03-31T13:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:15, 31 March 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Ahah, look at https://vymaps.com/LB/Ain-Dardara-659297, which incidentally is a wiki-blacklisted url. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-2022-03-31T14:20:00.000Z-Padres_Hana-2022-03-31T13:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:20, 31 March 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Padres_Hana" title="User:Padres Hana">User:Padres Hana</a>; though Ain Dardara sounds familiar; I'm afraid I cannot help you. If Zero's vymaps-links is the correct one, then Ain Dardara is just west of <a href="/wiki/Kamouh_el_Hermel" title="Kamouh el Hermel">Kamouh el Hermel</a>, Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-03-31T21:19:00.000Z-Zero0000-2022-03-31T14:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:19, 31 March 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you very much to both of you. I have also found Ain ad Dardara (also blacklisted) https://mapcarta.com/24889572 3-4 miles east of Baalbek. I have an account of the 2 June 1994 attack which speaks of “cluster bombs, fragmentation bombs and napalm” with more than 50 people killed and over 80 wounded - most of the casualties under the age of fifteen. Even allowing the passage of almost thirty years the satellite image of the Hermel site doesn’t suggest a massive air raid took place there. I am not an expert but the area just north of the Baalbek site does suggest itself. I will keep looking for some confirmation. <a href="/wiki/User:Padres_Hana" title="User:Padres Hana">Padres Hana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Padres_Hana" title="User talk:Padres Hana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Padres_Hana-2022-03-31T21:44:00.000Z-Huldra-2022-03-31T21:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:44, 31 March 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>You can see Ain Dardara on google; Ain Dardara is 1-1,5 km WSW of <a href="/wiki/Kamouh_el_Hermel" title="Kamouh el Hermel">Kamouh el Hermel</a>. It is noted as an "Amusement park"(!)(<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ain+Dardara/@34.3609829,36.3852967,5342m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x152242f8d2ebd113:0x30b6d68e704ba6ef!8m2!3d34.3609829!4d36.3949118?hl=en">link</a>), cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-03-31T22:05:00.000Z-Padres_Hana-2022-03-31T21:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:05, 31 March 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks - but does it look as if it could have been blitzed 30 years ago? I am inclined towards the Ain ad Dardara site. But I need a bit more evidence. <a href="/wiki/User:Padres_Hana" title="User:Padres Hana">Padres Hana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Padres_Hana" title="User talk:Padres Hana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Padres_Hana-2022-04-01T09:28:00.000Z-Huldra-2022-03-31T22:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:28, 1 April 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Inappropriate_use_of_rollback" data-mw-thread-id="h-Inappropriate_use_of_rollback-2022-04-26T23:44:00.000Z">Inappropriate use of rollback</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=117" title="Edit section: Inappropriate use of rollback">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello, I wanted to bring up this <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dean_Obeidallah&diff=next&oldid=1084802961">rollback</a> that you performed. The reason for reverting is unclear. Referring to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Rollback#When_to_use_rollback" title="Wikipedia:Rollback">when to use rollback</a>, I'm finding it difficult to understand why you used rollback on this edit. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Hey_man_im_josh-2022-04-26T23:44:00.000Z-Inappropriate_use_of_rollback" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 26 April 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">User:Hey man im josh</a>, well, I looked at the source, and the text did not reflect it; ie he never "apologized to the Romneys for the racist remarks", cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-04-26T23:48:00.000Z-Hey_man_im_josh-2022-04-26T23:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:48, 26 April 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>, first off, I'd like to refer you again to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Rollback#When_to_use_rollback" title="Wikipedia:Rollback">when to use rollback</a>. This is a situation in which it was inappropriate to use the rollback option as my revert was not vandalism, nor was it clear why the revert was done (when the criteria for rollbacks states it must be absolutely clear).</dd> <dd>Secondly, it's a matter of opinion and interpretation. The article you mention states that they never apologized because they did not believe it was racist. Some claim it was commentary and see nothing racist in the statements. Regardless of my personal view on the jokes, it's controversial and does not maintain a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">neutral point of view</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Hey_man_im_josh-2022-04-27T00:00:00.000Z-Huldra-2022-04-26T23:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:00, 27 April 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">User:Hey man im josh</a>, My bad; I see now that I re-introduced the remarks I wanted to get rid of(!) <facepalm> I have undone my edit, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-04-27T00:05:00.000Z-Hey_man_im_josh-2022-04-27T00:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 27 April 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you. <a href="/wiki/User:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User:Hey man im josh">Hey man im josh</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hey_man_im_josh" title="User talk:Hey man im josh">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Hey_man_im_josh-2022-04-27T12:52:00.000Z-Huldra-2022-04-27T00:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:52, 27 April 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Al-Khadr" data-mw-thread-id="h-Al-Khadr-2022-05-07T17:21:00.000Z">Al-Khadr</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=118" title="Edit section: Al-Khadr">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> On Spanish wiki, <a class="external free" href="https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khadr">https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khadr</a>, can't find it on English wiki, redirect to <a href="/wiki/Khidr" title="Khidr">Khidr</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2022-05-07T17:21:00.000Z-Al-Khadr" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:21, 7 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Duh, silly me, <a href="/wiki/Al-Khader" title="Al-Khader">al-Khader</a> :) <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-2022-05-09T17:22:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2022-05-07T17:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:22, 9 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">User:Selfstudier</a>: sorry for not seeing this question yesterday. And yes, it is <a href="/wiki/Al-Khader" title="Al-Khader">al-Khader</a>; you can always look at the bottom left-hand side of, say <a href="https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Khadr" class="extiw" title="es:Al-Khadr">es:Al-Khadr</a>, in order to see the which other languages it has an article in. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-05-09T20:07:00.000Z-Selfstudier-2022-05-09T17:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:07, 9 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Beit_Kahil" data-mw-thread-id="h-Beit_Kahil-2022-05-08T17:48:00.000Z">Beit Kahil</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=119" title="Edit section: Beit Kahil">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> It's been almost three years since then, but I have to say <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Beit%20Kahil&type=revision&diff=916631330&oldid=916629026">this edit</a> was a terrible, terrible misrepresentation of truth... Those people were not detained for nothing. The "two others" were detained because they <a href="/wiki/Murder_of_Dvir_Sorek" title="Murder of Dvir Sorek">murdered an 18-year-old named Dvir Sorek</a>. This innocent teenager was stabbed to death. I kindly ask you to be more reponsible when covering similar events next time. This kind of misinformed edits has just the potential to sow more hatred and violence in this already gruesome, long-lasting conflict. <a href="/wiki/User:Tombah" title="User:Tombah">Tombah</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tombah" title="User talk:Tombah">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Tombah-2022-05-08T17:48:00.000Z-Beit_Kahil" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:48, 8 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>As you can clearly see, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.ph/hCpDJ">the source</a> I used (from 16 Sept) about the mass arrest in <a href="/wiki/Beit_Kahil" title="Beit Kahil">Beit Kahil</a> does not mention anything about the murder of Dvir Sorek. I apologise for not being a <a href="/wiki/Psychic" title="Psychic">psychic</a>.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>And your statement that the ""two others" were detained" because their murder of Dvir Sorek is clearly wrong, as according to Jerusalem Post the two suspects had already been arrested by the 11 August.<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/four-palestinians-arrested-in-connection-with-the-murder-of-dvir-sorek-598229">[30]</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.jpost.com/arab-israeli-conflict/dvir-soreks-suspected-killers-may-have-homes-demolished-598370">[31]</a> How could they then be arrested (again??) in the early hours of 16 Sept? I kindly ask you to read the sources before making any allegations, thank you.</dd> <dd>And note that <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.ph/hCpDJ">the mass arrest on September 16</a> also included people from <a href="/wiki/Fawwar" class="mw-redirect" title="Fawwar">Fawwar</a>, from <a href="/wiki/Beit_Fajjar" title="Beit Fajjar">Beit Fajjar</a>, and "four from <a href="/wiki/Nablus" title="Nablus">Nablus</a>, two from <a href="/wiki/Qalqilya" title="Qalqilya">Qalqilya</a>, two from <a href="/wiki/Tulkarm" title="Tulkarm">Tulkarm</a>, one from <a href="/wiki/Salfit" title="Salfit">Salfit</a> and two from the <a href="/wiki/Ramallah" title="Ramallah">Ramallah</a> district". Were all those arrested in connection with the Sorek killing the 7 Aug? I have no idea. But do you have a source for that? Otherwise you really cannot claim it.</dd> <dd>As to your statement that Palestinian people are "not detained for nothing"; well, that is your claim. There are plenty who would testify otherwise. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-05-08T23:18:00.000Z-Tombah-2022-05-08T17:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 8 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Faqua_(bubbles)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Faqua_(bubbles)-2022-05-13T15:30:00.000Z">Faqua (bubbles)</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=120" title="Edit section: Faqua (bubbles)">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I can't seem to find a page for the village of Faqua, near Mt Gilboa and 14 kilometres from Jenin. Any clues? <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2022-05-13T15:30:00.000Z-Faqua_(bubbles)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:30, 13 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a>, try <a href="/wiki/Faqqua" title="Faqqua">Faqqua</a>, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-05-13T23:17:00.000Z-Nishidani-2022-05-13T15:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:17, 13 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Oh dear, yes. What a Faquawit I am. Excuse the rude pun, but puns are one of the few things that get me through these times. Thanks, indeed.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-2022-05-14T07:18:00.000Z-Huldra-2022-05-13T23:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:18, 14 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Herod_Archelaus" data-mw-thread-id="h-Herod_Archelaus-2022-05-15T00:52:00.000Z">Herod Archelaus</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=121" title="Edit section: Herod Archelaus">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> The caption for the picture you added, as indicated by <a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herod_Archelaus&diff=next&oldid=1061882420">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Herod_Archelaus&diff=next&oldid=1061882420</a>, is Herod Archelau. Should Archelau be Archelaus which is in the article's title and the name above his head in the picture? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mcljlm&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mcljlm (page does not exist)">Mcljlm</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mcljlm" title="User talk:Mcljlm">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Mcljlm-2022-05-15T00:52:00.000Z-Herod_Archelaus" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:52, 15 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Mcljlm&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Mcljlm (page does not exist)">User:Mcljlm</a>, yeah, that was a typo, fixed it now. Thanks for telling me, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-05-15T21:06:00.000Z-Mcljlm-2022-05-15T00:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:06, 15 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Shireen_Abu_Akleh.jpg" data-mw-thread-id="h-Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Shireen_Abu_Akleh.jpg-2022-05-15T17:41:00.000Z">Orphaned non-free image File:Shireen Abu Akleh.jpg</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=122" title="Edit section: Orphaned non-free image File:Shireen Abu Akleh.jpg">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><img alt="⚠" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Ambox_warning_blue.svg/35px-Ambox_warning_blue.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Ambox_warning_blue.svg/53px-Ambox_warning_blue.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Ambox_warning_blue.svg/70px-Ambox_warning_blue.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="378" data-file-height="326"/><figcaption>⚠</figcaption></figure> Thanks for uploading <a href="/wiki/File:Shireen_Abu_Akleh.jpg" title="File:Shireen Abu Akleh.jpg">File:Shireen Abu Akleh.jpg</a>. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content" title="Wikipedia:Non-free content">claim of fair use</a>. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content#Policy" title="Wikipedia:Non-free content">our policy for non-free media</a>). Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#F5" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>. Thank you. --<a href="/wiki/User:B-bot" title="User:B-bot">B-bot</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:B-bot" title="User talk:B-bot">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-B-bot-2022-05-15T17:41:00.000Z-Orphaned_non-free_image_File:Shireen_Abu_Akleh.jpg" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:41, 15 May 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Palmer's_P.N." data-mw-thread-id="h-Palmer's_P.N.-2022-06-06T19:18:00.000Z">Palmer's P.N.</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=123" title="Edit section: Palmer's P.N.">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi, after your correction to my edit at <a href="/wiki/Al-Attara" title="Al-Attara">Al-Attara</a>, I decided to check again what P.N. means in Palmer's work. Here's <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://archive.org/details/surveyofwesternp00conduoft/page/n7/mode/1up?view=theater">[32]</a> what Palmer says: The letters p.n. (proper name) after a name, mean either that it is a common Arabic personal appellation, or that it is a word to which no meaning can be assigned ; the former will be at once recognized by the Arabic scholar, the latter will form interesting problems for future investigation. From this I understand that the use of a "first name" to describe all the cases in which Palmer uses P.N. is inaccurate. Perhaps we should think of a better way to represent these cases. Any thoughts? <a href="/wiki/User:Tombah" title="User:Tombah">Tombah</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tombah" title="User talk:Tombah">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Tombah-2022-06-06T19:18:00.000Z-Palmer's_P.N." class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:18, 6 June 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Tombah" title="User:Tombah">User:Tombah</a>: Well, <a href="/wiki/Proper_name" class="mw-redirect" title="Proper name">Proper name</a> is just a redir to the <a href="/wiki/Proper_noun" title="Proper noun">Proper noun</a>-article. What about adding a paragraph to the "<a href="/wiki/Proper_noun" title="Proper noun">Proper noun</a>"-article; calling it "Palmer's definition", (or something like that), linking it to "Palmer, 1881, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/surveyofwesternp00conduoft/page/n8/mode/1up">v</a>". (Since the Palmer-text is no longer under any copy-right, we can use the text verbatim).</dd> <dd>Then, whenever Palmer use p.n., we can link it to that definition; ie [[Proper noun#Palmer's definition | p.n.]] Comments? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-06-06T20:47:00.000Z-Tombah-2022-06-06T19:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:47, 6 June 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Precious_anniversary" data-mw-thread-id="h-Precious_anniversary-2022-06-17T06:11:00.000Z">Precious anniversary</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=124" title="Edit section: Precious anniversary">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1126788409">.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul{line-height:inherit;list-style:none;margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .plainlist ol li,.mw-parser-output .plainlist ul li{margin-bottom:0}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1257001546">.mw-parser-output .infobox-subbox{padding:0;border:none;margin:-3px;width:auto;min-width:100%;font-size:100%;clear:none;float:none;background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .infobox-3cols-child{margin:auto}.mw-parser-output .infobox .navbar{font-size:100%}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .infobox-full-data:not(.notheme)>div:not(.notheme)[style]{background:#1f1f23!important;color:#f8f9fa}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .infobox-full-data:not(.notheme) div:not(.notheme){background:#1f1f23!important;color:#f8f9fa}}@media(min-width:640px){body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table{display:table!important}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table>caption{display:table-caption!important}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table>tbody{display:table-row-group}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table tr{display:table-row!important}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table th,body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .infobox-table td{padding-left:inherit;padding-right:inherit}}</style><table class="infobox nowrap plainlist" style="width:auto; background-color:#ddd; border:5px solid #ddd; box-shadow:0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius:0.5em;"><caption class="infobox-title">Precious</caption><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="infobox-image"><a href="/wiki/File:Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/70px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg" decoding="async" width="70" height="84" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/105px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/140px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1490" data-file-height="1792"/></a></td></tr><tr><th colspan="2" class="infobox-header"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Quality_Article_Improvement/Precious#Huldra" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious">Three years!</a></th></tr></tbody></table> --<a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">Gerda Arendt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gerda_Arendt" title="User talk:Gerda Arendt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Gerda_Arendt-2022-06-17T06:11:00.000Z-Precious_anniversary" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:11, 17 June 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">User:Gerda Arendt</a>, 😊 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-2022-06-17T23:15:00.000Z-Gerda_Arendt-2022-06-17T06:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:15, 17 June 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Re:_a_redirect" data-mw-thread-id="h-Re:_a_redirect-20220719070600">Re: a redirect</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=125" title="Edit section: Re: a redirect">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Greetings! In reading the article about <a href="/wiki/Louis-Hugues_Vincent" title="Louis-Hugues Vincent">Louis-Hugues Vincent</a>, I noted the odd name of Joseph-Joseph Lagrange; I clicked on the name and was treated to the article on <a href="/wiki/Marie-Joseph_Lagrange" title="Marie-Joseph Lagrange">Marie-Joseph Lagrange</a>. It would seem that your diligence in researching the matter led to the redirection of the redundant name to its supposed holder, and I thank you for this; I wonder, furthermore, how it was that you happened upon the connection! For I have searched now high and low for any attestation of the doubled Joseph and can find none. Of course, I agree with you that Fr. Lagrange was the person meant, and I have changed the name in Vincent's article to Marie-Joseph, but, if there be no source for Joseph-Joseph, would you would be terribly offended if I were to nominate the redirect page for deletion? Please let me know at your leisure. Sincerely, <a href="/wiki/User:Twozenhauer" title="User:Twozenhauer">Twozenhauer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Twozenhauer" title="User talk:Twozenhauer">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Twozenhauer-20220719070600-Re:_a_redirect" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:06, 19 July 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Twozenhauer" title="User:Twozenhauer">User:Twozenhauer</a>: Looking at the history, it seems that "Joseph-Joseph Lagrange" was in the article from the start; I just created the redir to <a href="/wiki/Marie-Joseph_Lagrange" title="Marie-Joseph Lagrange">Marie-Joseph Lagrange</a> (and got rid of the red link). I have no idea as to if "Joseph-Joseph Lagrange" was a spelling-mistake, or "alternative" name; you have to ask <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">User:Onceinawhile</a> (who first inserted that name) about that. In case it was just a spelling-mistake, I would of course be fine with having it deleted, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20220719213000-Twozenhauer-20220719070600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:30, 19 July 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks both. I have tried to remind myself how I wrote that five years ago, but I cannot remember. I don’t see any evidence supporting Joseph-Joseph, so it must be a typo. Sorry, and thanks for spotting it. <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">Onceinawhile</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Onceinawhile" title="User talk:Onceinawhile">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Onceinawhile-20220721082600-Huldra-20220719213000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:26, 21 July 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">User:Onceinawhile</a>. Well, <a href="/wiki/User:Twozenhauer" title="User:Twozenhauer">User:Twozenhauer</a>: I guess that means that neither Once nor me will have anything against you nominating that redirect page for deletion, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20220721200600-Onceinawhile-20220721082600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:06, 21 July 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> & <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">User:Onceinawhile</a>: Thank you both very much! It has been a pleasure editing with you, and perhaps we will collaborate in the future. Sincerely, <a href="/wiki/User:Twozenhauer" title="User:Twozenhauer">Twozenhauer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Twozenhauer" title="User talk:Twozenhauer">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Twozenhauer-20220723021900-Huldra-20220721200600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:19, 23 July 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Some_good_sources" data-mw-thread-id="h-Some_good_sources-20220806123200">Some good sources</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=126" title="Edit section: Some good sources">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hey Huldra. I would like to share with you some of the works of a member of a project I am involved with, who specializes in the research of the Ottoman and British periods. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://haifa.academia.edu/RoyMarom/English-Papers">Here</a> are some of his English papers.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-20220806123200-Some_good_sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:32, 6 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">User:Bolter21</a>; I know Marom from the <a href="/wiki/Petah_Tikva" title="Petah Tikva">Petah Tikva</a> article, (I have a copy of A short history of Mulabbis (Petah Tikva, Israel)) (Though he missed the Socin and Harmann sources!) (I started to map Socin <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Socin" title="User:Huldra/Socin">here</a>)</dd> <dd>I don't have a facebook or google-account, though, I would be grateful if someone send his other articles to me), Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20220806224500-Bolter21-20220806123200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:45, 6 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I will send all the others. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-20220807005700-Huldra-20220806224500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:57, 7 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> FYI, an article about <a href="/wiki/El-Habs" title="El-Habs">El-Habs</a>. The links you provided for Clermont-Ganneau, PEF, and Gurein were very useful, to which I send my thanks. Soon I'll finish work on Zakariya and Kelkh.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-20220826122700-Some_good_sources" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:27, 26 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">User:Bolter21</a>. It could be interesting seeing the Clermont-Ganneau-drawing, p. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.org/details/archaeologicalre02cler/page/355/mode/1up">355</a> side-by-side with <a class="external text" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bikat-ha-Nezirim-31.jpg">this photo</a>? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20220826223300-Bolter21-20220826122700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 26 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Planned on doing that, got a bit lazy.--<a href="/wiki/User:Bolter21" title="User:Bolter21">Bolter21</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bolter21" title="User talk:Bolter21">talk to me</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Bolter21-20220826224800-Huldra-20220826223300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:48, 26 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>😀 👍 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20220826225200-Bolter21-20220826224800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:52, 26 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_Seventeenth_First_Edit_Day!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_Seventeenth_First_Edit_Day!-20220831141300">Happy Seventeenth First Edit Day!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=127" title="Edit section: Happy Seventeenth First Edit Day!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="width: 80%; margin: 4px auto; padding: .2em; border: 2px dashed #FF0000; background-color: gold;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="text-align:center;"><a href="/wiki/File:Balloons-aj.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/50px-Balloons-aj.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="55" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/75px-Balloons-aj.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Balloons-aj.svg/100px-Balloons-aj.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1100" data-file-height="1200"/></a> </td> <td style="text-align:center;" width="100%">Hey, Huldra. I'd like to wish you a wonderful First Edit Day on behalf of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Birthday_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Birthday Committee">Wikipedia Birthday Committee</a>! Have a great day! <a href="/wiki/User:Chris_troutman" title="User:Chris troutman">Chris Troutman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Chris_troutman" title="User talk:Chris troutman">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Chris_troutman-20220831141300-Happy_Seventeenth_First_Edit_Day!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:13, 31 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td> <td style="text-align:right;"><a href="/wiki/File:Face-smile.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/55px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="55" height="55" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/83px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/110px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a> </td></tr></tbody></table> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Chris_troutman" title="User:Chris troutman">User:Chris troutman</a>, 😀 thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20220831210100-Happy_Seventeenth_First_Edit_Day!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:01, 31 August 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Battir" data-mw-thread-id="h-Battir-20221011233200">Battir</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=128" title="Edit section: Battir">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I added the etymology of Battir to the main page out of convenience, is that OK by you? <a href="/wiki/User:Gibby01" title="User:Gibby01">Gibby01</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gibby01" title="User talk:Gibby01">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Gibby01-20221011233200-Battir" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:32, 11 October 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Gibby01" title="User:Gibby01">User:Gibby01</a>, as I see it; the material belongs in the <a href="/wiki/Betar_(ancient_village)" title="Betar (ancient village)">Betar (ancient village)</a> article; and I believe the material is already in that article(?) Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20221012221600-Gibby01-20221011233200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 12 October 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Zhomron" data-mw-thread-id="h-Zhomron-20221107105000">Zhomron</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=129" title="Edit section: Zhomron">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Huldra, there is currently a discussion of Zhomron at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Zhomron" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User:Zhomron</a>. I've seen your interactions with them previously. I'm compiling a sock puppet report, based on the notion that Zhomron is a puppet of an older master, <a href="/wiki/User:BedrockPerson" title="User:BedrockPerson">User:BedrockPerson</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Elizium23" title="User:Elizium23">Elizium23</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Elizium23" title="User talk:Elizium23">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Elizium23-20221107105000-Zhomron" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:50, 7 November 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2022_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2022_Elections_voter_message-20221129002100">ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=130" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2022 Elections voter message">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="ivmbox" style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #AAA; background-color: ivory; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em; flex: 1 0 40px;"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> Hello! Voting in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2022" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2022">2022 Arbitration Committee elections</a> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 12 December 2022. All <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2022#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2022">eligible users</a> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2022 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2022/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2022/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/804" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/804">voting page</a>. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20221129002100-ArbCom_2022_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:21, 29 November 2022 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!_2-20230102170200">Happy New Year, Huldra!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=131" title="Edit section: Happy New Year, Huldra!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="border: 3px solid #FFD700; background-color: #FFFAF0; padding:0.2em 0.4em; height:auto; min-height:173px; border-radius:1em; box-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75);" class="plainlinks"> <figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif/212px-Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif" decoding="async" width="212" height="173" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif/318px-Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Fuochi_d%27artificio.gif 2x" data-file-width="352" data-file-height="288"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure><figure class="mw-default-size mw-halign-right" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Happy_new_year_01.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/177px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png" decoding="async" width="177" height="173" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/266px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Happy_new_year_01.svg/354px-Happy_new_year_01.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1317" data-file-height="1288"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div> <div class="center" style="width:auto; margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto;"><a href="/wiki/New_Year" title="New Year">Happy New Year</a>!</div> Huldra, Have a prosperous, productive and enjoyable <a href="/wiki/New_Year" title="New Year">New Year</a>, and thanks for your contributions to Wikipedia. — <a href="/wiki/User:Moops" title="User:Moops">Moops</a> ⋠<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Moops" title="User talk:Moops">T</a>⋡ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Moops-20230102170200-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 2 January 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </div> Send New Year cheer by adding {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Happy_New_Year_fireworks" title="Template:Happy New Year fireworks">subst:Happy New Year fireworks</a>}} to user talk pages. <div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> — <a href="/wiki/User:Moops" title="User:Moops">Moops</a> ⋠<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Moops" title="User talk:Moops">T</a>⋡ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Moops-20230102170200-Happy_New_Year,_Huldra!_2-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 2 January 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Moops" title="User:Moops">User:Moops</a>, and a Happy New Year to you, too! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20230102212600-Moops-20230102170200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:26, 2 January 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks! I'll need it after this block was handed down in light of my sending too many of these too quickly I suppose... <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard#Please_review_my_block" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard">seen here</a>. — <a href="/wiki/User:Moops" title="User:Moops">Moops</a> ⋠<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Moops" title="User talk:Moops">T</a>⋡ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Moops-20230102213100-Huldra-20230102212600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:31, 2 January 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Moops" title="User:Moops">User:Moops</a>: Oh dear, a block without any warning first? That seems pretty draconian. Anyway, hope the year progresses better! cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20230102213500-Moops-20230102213100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:35, 2 January 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, and the irony is that it happened as a direct result of me sending 'Happy New Years' greetings out! :( — <a href="/wiki/User:Moops" title="User:Moops">Moops</a> ⋠<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Moops" title="User talk:Moops">T</a>⋡ <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Moops-20230102214800-Huldra-20230102213500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Mail" data-mw-thread-id="h-Mail-20230225152800">Mail</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=132" title="Edit section: Mail">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1256396942">.mw-parser-output .umbox{background-color:var(--background-color-content-added,#a3d3ff);border:1px solid var(--border-color-progressive,#36c);padding:0.5em 1em;margin:2em 0 1em;font-weight:bold;overflow:auto;vertical-align:middle}</style> <div class="umbox"><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/40px-Mail-message-new.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/60px-Mail-message-new.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/80px-Mail-message-new.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/><figcaption></figcaption></figure>Hello, Huldra. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit">remove this notice</a> at any time by removing the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:You%27ve_got_mail" title="Template:You've got mail">You've got mail</a>}} or {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Ygm" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ygm">ygm</a>}} template.</div> <a href="/wiki/User:Onceinawhile" title="User:Onceinawhile">Onceinawhile</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Onceinawhile" title="User talk:Onceinawhile">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Onceinawhile-20230225152800-Mail" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:28, 25 February 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Isaac_Le_Maire" data-mw-thread-id="h-Isaac_Le_Maire-20230403155900">Isaac Le Maire</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=133" title="Edit section: Isaac Le Maire">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello Huldra, since you added the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Isaac_Le_Maire&diff=1004497454&oldid=1004217634&diffmode=source">file</a>, just wanted to inform you as per <a class="external text" href="https://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Isaac_le_Maire&oldid=prev&diff=64092742&diffmode=source">comment</a> by <a href="/wiki/User:Jan_Arkesteijn" title="User:Jan Arkesteijn">Jan Arkesteijn</a> this is not the same person. I'll have to remove the file. Sorry. <a href="/wiki/User:Lotje" title="User:Lotje">Lotje</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lotje" title="User talk:Lotje">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Lotje-20230403155900-Isaac_Le_Maire" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:59, 3 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Lotje" title="User:Lotje">User:Lotje</a> thanks, sorry for the mistake, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20230403232500-Lotje-20230403155900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:25, 3 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Christoph_Heidmann" data-mw-thread-id="h-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Christoph_Heidmann-20230404230000"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion" title="Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion">Speedy deletion</a> nomination of <a href="/wiki/Christoph_Heidmann" title="Christoph Heidmann">Christoph Heidmann</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=134" title="Edit section: Speedy deletion nomination of Christoph Heidmann">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/48px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="48" height="48" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/72px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/96px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/><figcaption></figcaption></figure> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1224211176"><div class="quotebox pullquote floatright" style="width:20%; ;"> <blockquote class="quotebox-quote left-aligned" style=""> If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Your_first_article" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Your first article">the guide to writing your first article</a>.You may want to consider using the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Article_wizard" title="Wikipedia:Article wizard">Article Wizard</a> to help you create articles. </blockquote> </div> Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on <a href="/wiki/Christoph_Heidmann" title="Christoph Heidmann">Christoph Heidmann</a> requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CSD#A3" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CSD">section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion</a>, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, a question that should have been asked at the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_desk" title="Wikipedia:Help desk">help</a> or <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reference_desk" title="Wikipedia:Reference desk">reference</a> desks, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Stub#Essential_information_about_stubs" title="Wikipedia:Stub">Wikipedia:Stub</a> for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability" title="Wikipedia:Notability">notable</a> subjects and should provide references to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources">reliable sources</a> that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Verifiability">verify</a> their content. If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by <a href="/wiki/Christoph_Heidmann" title="Christoph Heidmann">visiting the page</a> and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_policies" title="Wikipedia:List of policies">Wikipedia's policies and guidelines</a>. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=delete&page=Christoph+Heidmann">deleting administrator</a>, or if you have already done so, you can place a request <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RFUD" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RFUD">here</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Tollens" title="User:Tollens">Tollens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tollens" title="User talk:Tollens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Tollens-20230404230000-Speedy_deletion_nomination_of_Christoph_Heidmann" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:00, 4 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Tollens" title="User:Tollens">User:Tollens</a> please just delete it; I was going to tag it myself, but couldn't remember the tag. That "creation" was a total mistake -sorry! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20230404231000-Tollens-20230404230000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:10, 4 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Not a problem! If you need it next time, it's <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">{{db-self}}</code> for an article you created yourself. <a href="/wiki/User:Tollens" title="User:Tollens">Tollens</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tollens" title="User talk:Tollens">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Tollens-20230404232200-Huldra-20230404231000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:22, 4 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Tollens" title="User:Tollens">User:Tollens</a>, ok thank! I sincerely hope I woun't need to use it (again)😊 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20230404232400-Tollens-20230404232200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 4 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Deir_Qal'a" data-mw-thread-id="h-Deir_Qal'a-20230417190400">Deir Qal'a</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=135" title="Edit section: Deir Qal'a">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Huldra. I saw by chance that you're working on the topic. HUJI has a dedicated page. It has a good, concise overview of all archaeological aspects. Israeli land grab, abandonment by the <a href="/wiki/Ministry_of_Tourism_and_Antiquities_(Palestine)" title="Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities (Palestine)">PA ministry</a>, and all other such political aspects aside, this is i.m.o. what matters most now: site history and what's still there and can be seen of the ruins. C19 observations are great, but we're in C21 :) <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://dig.corps-cmhl.huji.ac.il/Monasteries/deir-qala-deir-el-qala-monastery">https://dig.corps-cmhl.huji.ac.il/Monasteries/deir-qala-deir-el-qala-monastery</a> Best wishes, <a href="/wiki/User:Arminden" title="User:Arminden">Arminden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arminden" title="User talk:Arminden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Arminden-20230417190400-Deir_Qal'a" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:04, 17 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>C21 now? What?! I haven't noticed that. History goes backwards, chum, not forwards! I had the impression we were now reliving the Weimar period, but recent events suggests aspirations for the neolithic, if not earlier. And don't quip that, at my age, I'm probably in the age of the extinction of dinosaurs (only because the truth hurts). Anthropobscene! Regards <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-20230418072200-Arminden-20230417190400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:22, 18 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Dear <a href="/wiki/User:Arminden" title="User:Arminden">User:Arminden</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">User:Nishidani</a>: Yeah, I found the HUJI -page (from <a href="https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Qal%CA%BFa" class="extiw" title="de:Deir Qalʿa">de:Deir Qalʿa</a>), and I have the Noga Carmin (Hrsg.): Christians and Christianity II book, with the Magen and Aizik, and Di Segni-articles; just starting to read (and trying to identify!) the mosaic in the Di Segni-article.</dd> <dd>And sigh; yeah, I have of course read about the "contemporary" issues (such as <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.machsomwatch.org/en/reports/checkpoints/sep-10-2020/morning/68982">[33]</a>); the same old thieving behaviour. But is wasn't actually that which got me started; that was all the pictures on commons (and all the "old" stuff written about it; SWP, Guerin, etc)</dd> <dd>I am (slowly!) working up to the 21C; I am still (mostly!) in the 4th-7thC.</dd> <dd>Any help will be appreciated! Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20230421204100-Nishidani-20230418072200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:41, 21 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Don't get me wrong: in a normal world, sites of such importance would be taken care of by the state, and the land owners either compensated, or - if they can and are willing to - included in the preservation scheme. Public access, to a degree that doesn't harm the site (crowd control) would be implemented. In reality, the opposite is happening in many places in Palestine, such as <a href="/wiki/Archelais" title="Archelais">Archelais</a>, where half the site is pockmarked by looters who dig by night, and half is being covered by new houses and ugly facilities built at a mad pace as we speak. Israel is occupying by force the Palestinians and basing part of the occupation on a bunch of messianic wackos, while the Palestinians are nowhere close to understanding what else they could do with what they have. They could be turning the tables on Israel. Instead, the most amazing Umayyad mosaic, at <a href="/wiki/Hisham%27s_Palace" title="Hisham's Palace">Hisham's Palace</a>, has been decaying at an incredibly rapid pace in the year-plus since the Palestinian authorities have been "taking care" of it. I could cry looking at what's happening. Can't understand why the Italians who preserved the mosaic can't jump in and see what's causing the destruction and help save it.</dd> <dd>Archaeological sites, once idyllically perched on a hill, which are now half hidden between modern houses, are the lucky ones, on both sides of the Green Line. Declaring a national park on Palestinian land is a land grab, aka theft; but if the alternative is destruction, you know already what I prefer. Safe for now, and the future will decide about the rest.</dd> <dd>The education systems are failing on both sides, each in its own way. One would expect more of Israel and wish better to the Palestinians, but it's a sorry case of hardly any light at the end of a depressing tunnel. The explorers of the 19th c., who found Deir Qala covered by a tobacco plantation, could at least hope for better and romantically enjoy their discovery. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Arminden" title="User:Arminden">Arminden</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Arminden" title="User talk:Arminden">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Arminden-20230421213400-Huldra-20230421204100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:34, 21 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, as you know my main computer is hospitalized, and has been for 6 weeks, and what little I'be been able to do on this minilaptop a niece gave me as a backup some years ago takes hours, even for a minor edit, since the cursor jumps all over the place, and I have to slowly reconstruct several times most things, and now for a week I lost my internet connection with a changeover to optic fibre and could only edit when I went to the pub and used its wifi. It has limited power and can't support many open pages, which it responds to by extreme slowness. I'll get back to editing and fix the translation when (if) my friend gets the time to finish fixing the main computer. He said he'd re-engineered it a week ago, but silence since, and, on principle, since he's doing me a great favour, I never ask/pester him about when I can have it back. He's hectically busy. Just hope it takes less time than the fruition of the pomegranate cutting which I made for him last year from my exuberantly fruitful tree's rootstock! Patience, as my wife would say, perhaps thinking of the weirdo she ended up marrying.(I even have to copy and paste my signature, whenever I can find a page with tildes on it)<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-20230421213600-Arminden-20230421213400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:36, 21 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><blockquote>Can't understand why the Italians who preserved the mosaic can't jump in and see what's causing the destruction and help save it.</blockquote></dd> <dd>Don't get me onto that. I have dozens of stories of what has happened in my own area which is one large archaeological site. Mosaics walled up in houses, the carabinieris' station built on a bulldozed site, idem a car park, idem the loca school. If wealthy people can be so crass, don't expect much enlightenment from the poor. People here are terrified of archaeological artifacts being discovered on their property because the Fine Arts ministry might, they believe, seize it or cause obstacles to their use of their land. Farmers or tombaroli or both, with the historic complicity of private collectors, the former because of their low incomes. The PA is a facade for a gang of cronies on the take, and since they do nothing for their own, no doubt close an eye or take their share because it's income that satisfies a population otherwise discontented, while also any discovery by Israeli authorities of archaeological remains, based on solid experience, will almost immediately lead to a sudden settlers' take-over. <a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-20230421214900-Nishidani-20230421213600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, as the Palestinians are now "ruled" by people most Palestinians look upon as not much better than <a href="/wiki/Quisling" title="Quisling">Quislings</a> (and the "international community" wount allow a new election; fearing that Hamas will win); I expect that archaeology is very far down on their list of priorities. Add to this that any significant find one the West Bank ends up in a Israeli museum ("International law? What international law???") (take the <a href="/wiki/Bull_Site" title="Bull Site">Bull Site</a> bronze statuette as one glaring example), and that the Israelis are not only <s>stealing</s>, uh, "taking over" archeological sites on the West Bank; they are also banning Palestinians to access them. If I was Palestinian, I would probably see archeology as an enemy; a ruse to take over something of mine, (Which, lets face it: often it is) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20230421221400-Nishidani-20230421214900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 21 April 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Precious_anniversary_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Precious_anniversary_2-20230617070800">Precious anniversary</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=136" title="Edit section: Precious anniversary">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1126788409"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1257001546"><table class="infobox nowrap plainlist" style="width:auto; background-color:#ddd; border:5px solid #ddd; box-shadow:0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius:0.5em;"><caption class="infobox-title">Precious</caption><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="infobox-image"><a href="/wiki/File:Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/80px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg" decoding="async" width="80" height="96" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/120px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/160px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1490" data-file-height="1792"/></a></td></tr><tr><th colspan="2" class="infobox-header"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Quality_Article_Improvement/Precious#Huldra" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious">Four years!</a></th></tr></tbody></table> --<a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">Gerda Arendt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gerda_Arendt" title="User talk:Gerda Arendt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Gerda_Arendt-20230617070800-Precious_anniversary_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:08, 17 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">User:Gerda Arendt</a>, 😊 <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20230617214900-Gerda_Arendt-20230617070800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:49, 17 June 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="DYK_for_Ein_Samiya" data-mw-thread-id="h-DYK_for_Ein_Samiya-20230715000200">DYK for Ein Samiya</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=137" title="Edit section: DYK for Ein Samiya">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 40px"><a href="/wiki/File:Updated_DYK_query.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/40px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="81" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/60px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a0/Updated_DYK_query.svg/80px-Updated_DYK_query.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="35" data-file-height="71"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> On <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2023/July#15_July_2023" title="Wikipedia:Recent additions/2023/July">15 July 2023</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know" title="Template:Did you know">Did you know</a> was updated with a fact from the article <a href="/wiki/Ein_Samiya" title="Ein Samiya">Ein Samiya</a>, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that <a href="/wiki/Ein_Samiya" title="Ein Samiya">Ein Samiya</a> (pictured), which provides the water for <a href="/wiki/Taybeh_Brewery" title="Taybeh Brewery">Taybeh</a>, the first <a href="/wiki/Beer_in_Palestine" title="Beer in Palestine">beer brewed in Palestine</a>, was depopulated in 2023 after harassment by neighboring <a href="/wiki/Israeli_settlement" title="Israeli settlement">Israeli settlers</a>? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at <a href="/wiki/Template:Did_you_know_nominations/Ein_Samiya" title="Template:Did you know nominations/Ein Samiya">Template:Did you know nominations/Ein Samiya</a>. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (<a href="/wiki/User:Rjanag/Pageview_stats" title="User:Rjanag/Pageview stats">here's how</a>, <a class="external text" href="//pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2023-07-05&end=2023-07-25&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Ein_Samiya">Ein Samiya</a>), and the hook may be added to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Did_you_know/Statistics/Monthly_DYK_pageview_leaders" title="Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics/Monthly DYK pageview leaders">the statistics page</a> after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the <a href="/wiki/Template_talk:Did_you_know" title="Template talk:Did you know">Did you know talk page</a>. </div> </div> <a href="/wiki/User:Z1720" title="User:Z1720">Z1720</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Z1720" title="User talk:Z1720">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Z1720-20230715000200-DYK_for_Ein_Samiya" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:02, 15 July 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Are_you_well?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Are_you_well?-20231023233700">Are you well?</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=138" title="Edit section: Are you well?">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Huldra, I have taken notice that you have not been editing on Wikipedia for the past <ins>three months</ins>. Is everything well with you?<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-20231023233700-Are_you_well?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:37, 23 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Hi, I'm fine, just very, very occupied in RL with another project (totally unrelated to wp, or the Middle East). Hope to be back on wp in about 1/2 year, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20231028221500-Davidbena-20231023233700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 28 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Okay. Good to hear that you are doing well, but very busy in other areas.<a href="/wiki/User:Davidbena" title="User:Davidbena">Davidbena</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Davidbena" title="User talk:Davidbena">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Davidbena-20231031232500-Huldra-20231028221500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:25, 31 October 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Delighted to see you pop up on <a href="/wiki/Refaat_Alareer" title="Refaat Alareer">Refaat Alareer</a>. Hope you don't mind my intrusion on <a href="/wiki/Yibna" title="Yibna">Yibna</a> – that was prompted by the lovely old lady whom I recently added to my user page (Yael Kahn), who founded "Islington Friends of Yibna" (I think you'll enjoy the video about her). If you like, I'd be happy to systematically work my way through all the rest of the depopulated villages pages doing something similar. I'll be up early tomorrow morning to attend the big fortnightly protest in London against the genocide. Hope all's well with you and your project. --<a href="/wiki/User:NSH001" title="User:NSH001">NSH001</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NSH001" title="User talk:NSH001">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-NSH001-20231208215100-Davidbena-20231031232500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:51, 8 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:NSH001" title="User:NSH001">User:NSH001</a>: Hush: I am really not here! Don't tell anyone!! ;) Seriously, I am drowning in work, (totally unrelated to the ME or wp) -still worthwhile(?) I haven't had time to look at <a href="/wiki/Yibna" title="Yibna">Yibna</a>, or a thousand other articles. (I'm sure your work is great!) I hope to be back on wp late next spring.</dd> <dd>I try desperately not to follow the Gaza news, but <a href="/wiki/Refaat_Alareer" title="Refaat Alareer">Refaat Alareer</a>' twitter account was one always worth reading. And the Arab twitterati outpouring has been astonishing.</dd> <dd>My 2 cents: <a href="/wiki/Sufian_Tayeh" title="Sufian Tayeh">Sufian Tayeh</a>' murder was probably a "heavier" loss, but <a href="/wiki/Refaat_Alareer" title="Refaat Alareer">Refaat Alareer</a> murder feels ...personal. Israel are really, really going after anyone who is an intellectual (in the broadest meaning of the word) this time. Feels like after Munchen 1972, when people like <a href="/wiki/Ghassan_Kanafani" title="Ghassan Kanafani">Ghassan Kanafani</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wael_Zwaiter" title="Wael Zwaiter">Wael Zwaiter</a> were murdered (together with the odd Maroccan waiter <a href="/wiki/Ahmed_Bouchikhi" class="mw-redirect" title="Ahmed Bouchikhi">Ahmed Bouchikhi</a>)</dd> <dd>Take care, good luck with your demo tomorrow! cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20231208221900-NSH001-20231208215100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:19, 8 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks, Huldra. When I got up on Saturday, it was very dark, pouring with rain, wet, cold and miserable weather. Definitely not the weather for venturing outside. Then I checked the web site for the train times. Disaster! There's a rail strike on so no trains to London! However it turned out I could get to London by train, I'd just have to change trains a couple of times. Thank God for that. A bit of rain is no excuse for me, compared to what is happening to everybody in Gaza. The best bit was actually being able to meet the amazing Jewish Israeli lady Yael Kahn I mentioned above.. She's even better in real life than she is in the video (link is on my user page). Was able to have a short conversation with her, and give her a big hug (or rather she hugged me). There were a few placards mentioning "Dr. Refaat Alareer" (always with the "Dr."), but nowhere near as many as for <a href="/wiki/Benjamin_Zephaniah" title="Benjamin Zephaniah">Benjamin Zephaniah</a>, who has also recently left us. A few speakers did mention Refaat, and <a href="/wiki/Maxine_Peake" title="Maxine Peake">Maxine Peake</a> read one of his poems from the platform. After the demo, the usual bastards decided to make thing more difficult for us by closing the entrance to Westminster tube station (that's the one next to Parliament Square rallying point). Just adds to the fun! I'm very grateful to the NHS - thanks to a big operation I had earlier this year, I can now hold my bladder like a 19-year-old, a big help on a 6-hour demo. I thought the turnout was very good considering the bad weather and the rail strike. Surprisingly, it turns out that going on a long demo is very good for one's blood pressure, down to 105/68 when I got home. Amazing! Hope you're keeping well. --<a href="/wiki/User:NSH001" title="User:NSH001">NSH001</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NSH001" title="User talk:NSH001">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-NSH001-20231211160500-Huldra-20231208221900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:05, 11 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <a href="/wiki/User:NSH001" title="User:NSH001">User:NSH001</a>: Yeah, I saw on social media that it was a huge demo. Typically; hardly anything in the <a href="/wiki/Mainstream_media" title="Mainstream media">MSM</a>. Also; that Jewish people in England/US have been at the forefront protesting against the Gaza genocide has been noticed in the Arab world, according to <a href="/wiki/As%27ad_AbuKhalil" title="As'ad AbuKhalil">As'ad AbuKhalil</a>. A single person like Yael Kahn has probably done more to combat anti-semitism than the <a href="/wiki/Anti-Defamation_League" title="Anti-Defamation League">ADL</a> has done in all its existence. It is my feeling that MSM and politicians have hardly ever been more out-of-step with the "average guy" than over Gaza. As if people don't see the hypocrisy? EG: the same day the White House says it is <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/dec/11/israel-gaza-war-live-updates-hamas-hostages-warning-palestine-idf-un-emergency-meeting">‘concerned’ by reports Israeli forces using white phosphorus</a> ...Washington Post reports that yeah, that white phosphorus <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/12/11/israel-us-white-phosphorus-lebanon/">it is supplied .....by the US</a>. Or: when you get a "dangerous terrorist" to surrender, do you then: A: First; get him to strip of all his clothes, then surrender his weapons or: B: first surrender his weapons. Apparently the answer is ....A. Lol! The stupidity of MSM/"mainstream" politicians is only matched by the unprecedented level of censorship; I saw some women facing a felony-charge/6 months in jail for wearing a picture of ...paragliders. You couldn't make this up. I suspect this will cost Biden his <a href="/wiki/POTUS" class="mw-redirect" title="POTUS">POTUS</a>-bid next year; the Arab-American overwhelmingly supported him in 2020; now that support is virtually all gone. We'll see. Anyway; I really shouldn't be here: I will try to get a bit done between X-mas and New Year: see you then, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20231211222200-Are_you_well?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>It seems as if GJ can <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.is/Ze1gF">say goodbye to the Irish-American-vote</a>, too, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240328210500-Huldra-20231211222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:05, 28 March 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Re the MSM, I couldn't find any mention of the demo on the BBC. However Al Jazeera did report it, and I thought its coverage was quite fair and very professional. It seems that US protestors are <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxQ2LQfq3LE">following Biden everywhere he goes, and not letting up</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:NSH001" title="User:NSH001">NSH001</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:NSH001" title="User talk:NSH001">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-NSH001-20231213004600-Huldra-20231211222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <ul><li>For anyone watching: the deadline for my other project has been postponed until October. I am unlikely to have much time for wp until then,:/ <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240530224900-Huldra-20231211222200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:49, 30 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Aw. Keep it cool, gal. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-20240530231600-Huldra-20240530224900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2023_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2023_Elections_voter_message-20231128002300">ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=139" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="ivmbox" style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #AAA; background-color: ivory; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em; flex: 1 0 40px; max-width: 100px"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> Hello! Voting in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2023" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2023">2023 Arbitration Committee elections</a> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2023#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023">eligible users</a> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2023/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2023/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/806" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/806">voting page</a>. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20231128002300-ArbCom_2023_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:23, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </div> </div> Ok, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20231128015900-ArbCom_2023_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:59, 28 November 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ITN_recognition_for_Refaat_Alareer" data-mw-thread-id="h-ITN_recognition_for_Refaat_Alareer-20231211022900">ITN recognition for <a href="/wiki/Refaat_Alareer" title="Refaat Alareer">Refaat Alareer</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=140" title="Edit section: ITN recognition for Refaat Alareer">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256334245"><div class="ivmbox" style=""> <div class="ivmbox-image" style="flex-basis: 50px"><a href="/wiki/File:Ambox_current_red_Americas.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Ambox_current_red_Americas.svg/50px-Ambox_current_red_Americas.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Ambox_current_red_Americas.svg/75px-Ambox_current_red_Americas.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Ambox_current_red_Americas.svg/100px-Ambox_current_red_Americas.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="360" data-file-height="290"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> On 11 December 2023, <a href="/wiki/Template:In_the_news" title="Template:In the news">In the news</a> was updated with an item that involved the article <a href="/wiki/Refaat_Alareer" title="Refaat Alareer">Refaat Alareer</a>, which you updated. If you know of another recently created or updated article suitable for inclusion in ITN, please suggest it on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates">candidates page</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Ad_Orientem" title="User:Ad Orientem">Ad Orientem</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ad_Orientem" title="User talk:Ad Orientem">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Ad_Orientem-20231211022900-ITN_recognition_for_Refaat_Alareer" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Tantura" data-mw-thread-id="h-Tantura-20231213101500">Tantura</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=141" title="Edit section: Tantura">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Hudra, I just added: <ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rteB5T4hwVY">Executions and Mass Graves in Tantura</a>, Youtube-Chanel from von <a href="/wiki/Forensic_Architecture" title="Forensic Architecture">Forensic Architecture</a>, 30 May 2023; 17 minutes</li></ul> to the German <a href="/wiki/Tantura_massacre" title="Tantura massacre">Tantura massacre</a> article, would you like to add it to the English Tantura massacre article? BTW thank you for your work, I learnt a lot from you ;-) <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/91.54.7.40" title="Special:Contributions/91.54.7.40">91.54.7.40</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:91.54.7.40&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:91.54.7.40 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-91.54.7.40-20231213101500-Tantura" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:15, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done, thanks!, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20231213222100-91.54.7.40-20231213101500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:21, 13 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you, Hudra. For a smile on your face: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://i0.wp.com/slimanmansour.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/The-last-wedding-in-Tantura_011-small.jpg?fit=1080%2C1080&ssl=1">The last wedding in Tantura, 2022</a> (by <a href="/wiki/Sliman_Mansour" title="Sliman Mansour">Sliman Mansour</a>)--<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/91.54.26.247" title="Special:Contributions/91.54.26.247">91.54.26.247</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:91.54.26.247&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:91.54.26.247 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-91.54.26.247-20231214221500-Huldra-20231213222100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 14 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Beautiful! Thanks; I have added it as a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EL" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EL">WP:EL</a> to the Tantura -page, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20231215235300-91.54.26.247-20231214221500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:53, 15 December 2023 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> Hi Hudra, its me again ;-) I just read the autobiography of <a href="/wiki/Salman_Abu_Sitta" title="Salman Abu Sitta">Salman Abu Sitta</a>. Could we have the picture <a class="external free" href="https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:Sitta-1.jpg">https://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%91%D7%A5:Sitta-1.jpg</a> uploaded somehow to en:WP? Can you help me there? Cheers, --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/93.211.214.52" title="Special:Contributions/93.211.214.52">93.211.214.52</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:93.211.214.52&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:93.211.214.52 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-93.211.214.52-20240418205800-Tantura" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:58, 18 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>There is a problem with that; it is uploaded to he.wp on a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content" title="Wikipedia:Non-free content">fair use -basis</a>; that means it cannot be uploaded to commons. In theory, it could be uploaded to en.wp, but I suspect it would soon be deleted. Different language wikipedias have different rules, and he.wp (and ar.wp) seem to have far, far more relaxed "fair use" use than en.wp. As an example; we had a copy of one of <a href="/wiki/Sliman_Mansour" title="Sliman Mansour">Sliman Mansour</a>'s painting illustrating his bio under "fair use", but that was deleted. I am reasonably certain that we couldn't use the above picture to illustrate the <a href="/wiki/Salman_Abu_Sitta" title="Salman Abu Sitta">Salman Abu Sitta</a>-article; not unless we got the permission from <a href="/wiki/Salman_Abu_Sitta" title="Salman Abu Sitta">Salman Abu Sitta</a>.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>But: the good new is, that it is a picture taken in 1944, ie we can upload it (without the graphics) on a {{PD-Israel}} licence. Since there is a copy of the original on p14 in the book, I have uploaded it to commons <a class="external text" href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Salman_Abu_Sitta%27s_family.png">here</a>. Cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240423211100-93.211.214.52-20240418205800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 23 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That is even better. You are wonderful. --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/93.211.223.245" title="Special:Contributions/93.211.223.245">93.211.223.245</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:93.211.223.245&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:93.211.223.245 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-93.211.223.245-20240427211700-Huldra-20240423211100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:17, 27 April 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> Hi Hudra, me again needing help 🙄. Just having read your reply <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:2024_Lebanon_pager_explosions&diff=next&oldid=1247106111">here</a> + the lead paragraphs still with the wrong number "The first wave of explosions occurred on 17 September, around 15:30 EEST, killing at least 12 people, including two Hezbollah members and two children" + the talk page being put down under "protection settings": you might like to note that three children under the age of 10 were killed on 18 September 2024. <ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1427494/after-pager-explosions-hezbollah-announces-death-of-10-fighters-vows-to-continue-operations-day-348-of-the-gaza-war.html">At least 14 dead and over 450 injured in new explosions of communication devices across Lebanon: Day 348 of the Gaza war</a>, <a href="/wiki/L%27Orient-Le_Jour" title="L'Orient-Le Jour">L'Orient Today</a>, 18 September 2024. → Quote: "According to information gathered by our South Lebanon correspondent, three children — two boys and a girl — were also killed in the pager explosions." (Please, note the time: "10:28 Beirut Time", this was before the Second wave.)</li></ul> <ul><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPVO_qBPj24">Why hasn't Iran responded to Israeli attacks and where is the Mideast conflict headed</a>?, <a href="/wiki/DW_News" title="DW News">DW News</a>, 18 September 2024. → Quote: - at 0:04 - "Beirut Lebanese Health officials now put the de toll for the strike at 31 including three children."</li></ul> I have already tried to point out the mistake on the talk page, but was ignored or deleted. Please intervene. Tausenddank --<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/91.54.30.108" title="Special:Contributions/91.54.30.108">91.54.30.108</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:91.54.30.108&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:91.54.30.108 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-91.54.30.108-20240923054200-Tantura" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:42, 23 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd>Hi, I see the sources saying this in the immediate aftermath of the attack, but later sources say otherwise. Maybe they added one because the son of an Hizbollah MP was killed? But this son was an adult. The names/ages of the girl and the boy who were killed are known, more info on the alleged second boy killed is needed before I could argue that three children were killed -sorry, but sourcing is *EVERYTHING* on wikipedia, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240924204000-91.54.30.108-20240923054200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:40, 24 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Reminder_to_vote_now_to_select_members_of_the_first_U4C" data-mw-thread-id="h-Reminder_to_vote_now_to_select_members_of_the_first_U4C-20240502231800">Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=142" title="Edit section: Reminder to vote now to select members of the first U4C">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Universal_Code_of_Conduct/Coordinating_Committee/Election/2024/Announcement_%E2%80%93_vote_reminder" class="extiw" title="m:Special:MyLanguage/Universal Code of Conduct/Coordinating Committee/Election/2024/Announcement – vote reminder">You can find this message translated into additional languages on Meta-wiki.</a> <a class="external text" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Universal+Code+of+Conduct%2FCoordinating+Committee%2FElection%2F2024%2FAnnouncement+%E2%80%93+vote+reminder&language=&action=page&filter=">Please help translate to other languages.</a></dd></dl> Dear Wikimedian, You are receiving this message because you previously participated in the UCoC process. 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Please share this message with members of your community so they can participate as well. On behalf of the UCoC project team, <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:RamzyM_(WMF)" class="extiw" title="m:User:RamzyM (WMF)">RamzyM (WMF)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-RamzyM_(WMF)-20240502231800-Reminder_to_vote_now_to_select_members_of_the_first_U4C" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:18, 2 May 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Precious_anniversary_3" data-mw-thread-id="h-Precious_anniversary_3-20240617085700">Precious anniversary</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=143" title="Edit section: Precious anniversary">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1126788409"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1257001546"><table class="infobox nowrap plainlist" style="width:auto; background-color:#ddd; border:5px solid #ddd; box-shadow:0.1em 0.1em 0.5em rgba(0,0,0,0.75); border-radius:0.5em;"><caption class="infobox-title">Precious</caption><tbody><tr><td colspan="2" class="infobox-image"><a href="/wiki/File:Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/90px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg" decoding="async" width="90" height="108" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/135px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1d/Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg/180px-Cornflower_blue_Yogo_sapphire.jpg 2x" data-file-width="1490" data-file-height="1792"/></a></td></tr><tr><th colspan="2" class="infobox-header"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Quality_Article_Improvement/Precious#Huldra" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement/Precious">Five years!</a></th></tr></tbody></table> --<a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">Gerda Arendt</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Gerda_Arendt" title="User talk:Gerda Arendt">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Gerda_Arendt-20240617085700-Precious_anniversary_3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:57, 17 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Gerda_Arendt" title="User:Gerda Arendt">User:Gerda Arendt</a>, Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240617205000-Gerda_Arendt-20240617085700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:50, 17 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Dear_Huldra" data-mw-thread-id="h-Dear_Huldra-20240618075900">Dear Huldra</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=144" title="Edit section: Dear Huldra">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hello, I saw what you have writen on my talk page and i will learn about the content you wrote. 1. Regarading the claim that i only write about Jewish history is false, i reffer you to <a href="/wiki/Horvat_Eleq" title="Horvat Eleq">Horvat Eleq</a> i wrote about. 2. I understand the claim about the location of the sites i write about, i will be more accurate about it in the future. 3. I saw also the claims by @<a href="/wiki/User:Richard_Nevell" title="User:Richard Nevell">Richard Nevell</a>, some of the articles i wrote i translated from Hebrew Wiki, today i learnt how to use the translate tag and from now on i will use it for every article i translate. 4. I saw the work you have done on Wikipedia and i hope to reach your level one day. <a href="/wiki/User:Owenglyndur" title="User:Owenglyndur">Owenglyndur</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Owenglyndur" title="User talk:Owenglyndur">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Owenglyndur-20240618075900-Dear_Huldra" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:59, 18 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Owenglyndur" title="User:Owenglyndur">User:Owenglyndur</a>, I expect you to clean up the articles you have already made, before you make more articles! I have listed some of the false edits you have made on <a href="/wiki/Talk:Deir_ed_Darb" title="Talk:Deir ed Darb">Talk:Deir ed Darb</a>.</dd> <dd>And the translate tag only works for when you translate articles from another wiki-article, it obviously doesn't work for translating from an article in a journal. (And <a href="/wiki/Deir_ed_Darb" title="Deir ed Darb">Deir ed Darb</a> doesn't have an article in Hebrew, or in any other language).</dd> <dd>And you still haven't said what is typically Jewish in the <a href="/wiki/Deir_ed_Darb" title="Deir ed Darb">Deir ed Darb</a> tomb (this is the third time I am asking) <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240618214900-Owenglyndur-20240618075900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:49, 18 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi,</dd> <dd>In the article i cited: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.academia.edu/25782070/Raviv_D_2013_Magnificent_Tombs_from_the_Second_Temple_Period_in_Western_Samaria_New_Insights_In_the_Highlands_Depth_Ephraim_Range_and_Binyamin_Research_Studies_Vol_3_Ariel_Talmon_pp_109_142_Hebrew_">https://www.academia.edu/25782070/Raviv_D_2013_Magnificent_Tombs_from_the_Second_Temple_Period_in_Western_Samaria_New_Insights_In_the_Highlands_Depth_Ephraim_Range_and_Binyamin_Research_Studies_Vol_3_Ariel_Talmon_pp_109_142_Hebrew_</a></dd> <dd>Dr. Raviv talks about several Rock-cut tombs in Sameria, all with Jewish motiffs commn for the period (rosettes) typical of Jewish art of this period and directlry derives from the tombs of the Jewish elite of Jerusalem of the late Second Temple period. <a href="/wiki/User:Owenglyndur" title="User:Owenglyndur">Owenglyndur</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Owenglyndur" title="User talk:Owenglyndur">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Owenglyndur-20240619114000-Huldra-20240618214900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:40, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That should be in the article! What type of <a href="/wiki/Rosette_(design)" title="Rosette (design)">rosettes</a> are typical of Jewish art? Presently, the article just mentions types of acheological designs typical of Greek/Roman architecture, and present the conclusion: they are Jewish! That makes no sense to me.</dd> <dd>Also: I see you have uploaded pictures to commons, labeling places in "Israel", when they are clearly not. Please fix that. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240619165900-Owenglyndur-20240619114000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:59, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Butting in. This is something that has always worried me: the premise that whatever is unearthed in Samaria is 'Jewish', regarding a period when there was a strong religious distinction between Samaritanism and Judaism, despite a considerable overlap in things like mikvah etc. If anyone finds sources that can throw light on this crux, I'd appreciate being notified.<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-20240619170500-Huldra-20240619165900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:05, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Well, I recall <a href="/wiki/Al-Sinnabra" title="Al-Sinnabra">Al-Sinnabra</a> (started by Tiamut), first assumed to be a synagogue, or <a href="/wiki/Khirbat_al-Minya" title="Khirbat al-Minya">Khirbat al-Minya</a>, (also at one time assumed to be a synagogue). Not to mention <a href="/wiki/Talk:Maon_Synagogue" title="Talk:Maon Synagogue">Talk:Maon Synagogue</a> and even the Gaza Synagogue (first identified as a church). Or the <a href="/wiki/Beit_She%27arim_necropolis" title="Beit She'arim necropolis">Beit She'arim necropolis</a>, where graves with typical Roman myths (like Leda and the swan) are taken to be ...Jewish. Hmmm. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240619172500-Nishidani-20240619170500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:25, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I suppose if one looks for something, one will invariably find that and ignore anything that doesn't fit the profile. <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-20240619173300-Huldra-20240619172500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>True that, though one could hope that Dr. Dvir Raviv ("who served as an IDF officer in the Armored Corps, grew up in <a href="/wiki/Kedumim" title="Kedumim">Kedumim</a> – the first Jewish town in modern-day Samaria."(<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.is/tG6JF">link</a>)) would be able to justify it? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240619180400-Selfstudier-20240619173300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 19 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>It's amusing to read this. I haven't edited in a while, but I've been following from afar, and this claim is quite ridiculous. First of all, this text seems like a significant <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a> violation. Moreover, we don't base our claims solely on the ethnicity or nationality of writers. This seems like a double standard, especially after you, Huldra, edited Israeli communities in the Gaza envelope just after the October 7 attacks, after their residents were massacred and raped, claiming they were built on Palestinian areas based solely on a personal, non-scholarly memoir of a former Palestinian refugee. (<a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nir_Oz&diff=prev&oldid=1182375036">Nir Oz</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ein_HaShlosha&diff=prev&oldid=1182376261">Ein HaShlosha</a>, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magen,_Israel&diff=prev&oldid=1182376776">Magen</a>). This just screams double standards. How biased can we be? For how long are we gonna keep destroying our coverage of IP?</dd> <dd>In contrast, the identification of this site as Jewish involves several renowned authors and archaeologists, not only Dvir Raviv, but also Orit Peleg Barkat, Yitzhak Magen, and others, who have all published in leading academic journals, all agreeing this is a Jewish tomb, dating from the late Second Temple era. If you read the article, you'll find a detailed discussion on the borders of Judaea and Samaria during the Roman period, showing it's not a random claim, but a result of a scholarly discussion considering geographic and demographic evidence. I'm sick and weak, and this is the only reason I'm not opening an investigation. I hope someone sees this and takes the necessary steps forward. <a href="/wiki/User:916crdshn" title="User:916crdshn">916crdshn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:916crdshn" title="User talk:916crdshn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-916crdshn-20240620064800-Huldra-20240619180400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:48, 20 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Hi, regarding you question about the Rosettes and the Jewish connection, i have attached three links explaining that. The second link speaks specific about Deir ed Darb: <ol><li><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://brill.com/display/serial/HO1">https://brill.com/display/serial/HO1</a> P.381</li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/44102543">https://www.jstor.org/stable/44102543</a></li> <li><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://brill.com/display/title/172">https://brill.com/display/title/172</a> p.80</li></ol></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Owenglyndur" title="User:Owenglyndur">Owenglyndur</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Owenglyndur" title="User talk:Owenglyndur">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Owenglyndur-20240620150500-Huldra-20240619165900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:05, 20 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Qarawat_Bani_Hassan#Deir_ed-Derb" title="Qarawat Bani Hassan">Qarawat Bani Hassan#Deir ed-Derb</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Selfstudier" title="User:Selfstudier">Selfstudier</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Selfstudier" title="User talk:Selfstudier">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Selfstudier-20240620152000-Owenglyndur-20240620150500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:20, 20 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <a href="/wiki/User:916crdshn" title="User:916crdshn">User:916crdshn</a>: Whaw, where to start? <ul><li>allegation of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BLP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BLP">WP:BLP</a>-violation? I assume you mean what I quoted about Dr. Dvir Raviv? That was written on the face-book page of <a href="/wiki/Bar-Ilan_University" title="Bar-Ilan University">Bar-Ilan University</a> under the heading "Meet Our Faculty: Dr. Dvir Raviv".</li> <li>as for "a former Palestinian refugee", <a href="/wiki/Salman_Abu_Sitta" title="Salman Abu Sitta">Salman Abu Sitta</a>, he has written "Atlas of Palestine", and knows more about the Palestinian history than most.</li> <li>I am not saying it isn't Jewish, but I want to know why it is identified as such, especially since <a href="/wiki/Israel_Finkelstein" title="Israel Finkelstein">Israel Finkelstein</a> in his 1997 survey does not identify it as such. Finkelstein's description of <a href="/wiki/Deir_ed_Darb" title="Deir ed Darb">Deir ed Darb</a> is: "A large cemetery of the Hellenistic and Roman periods, apparently connected with one of the sites in the close vicinity. Rock-cut tombs with rock-cut 'courtyards' in front of them. The most elaborate tomb is called Qabr el-Malik Birdhaun, or Dejr ed-Darb. For a detailed description of the site see Conder and Kitchener 1882:313-315; Savignac 1910; Dar 1986:234-235." The Conder and Kichener is in the article, I am reading Dar 1986 now, and I can't see he mentioning anything, either.</li> <li>As for "detailed discussion on the borders of Judaea and Samaria during the Roman period"; that is irrelevant. As I am sure you know, there were different people living there in the Roman period; besides Jews, you had eg Samaritans (as Nishidani mentioned above), and off course ....Romans.</li> <li>Finally, (and what got me started) I have seen a fair number of Hellenistic/Roman tombs/buildings, and to my amateur eyes, <a href="/wiki/Deir_ed_Darb" title="Deir ed Darb">Deir ed Darb</a> looked decidedly Hellenistic/Roman. Now, Owenglyndur remark about "all with Jewish motiffs commn for the period (rosettes) typical of Jewish art of this period" is interesting, and I hope to hear more about that? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240620090200-Dear_Huldra" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:02, 20 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>@<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a>. Yes, this is probably a BLP violation. The claim that someone who is Israeli and served in the IDF cannot be a reliable source, despite their academic achievements, is unfounded. Most Israelis serve in the IDF by law, and this should not be an issue.</li> <li>I don't know much about Salman Abu Sitta, but his Wikipedia page shows he is involved in political activism and has praised Hamas' October 7 attack on Israel. Using his memoir/diary as a source to cover the history of communities in Israel, especially two weeks after their civilian population was massacred and raped, is a clear double standard. Do you really think this is a reliable source? I think it would be reasonable to remove his contributions as he is clearly biased.</li> <li>Israel Finkelstein, as far as I know, is an expert on Old Testament times, not classical antiquity. If a group of acclaimed scholars specializing in the Hellenistic and Roman periods in Palestine, including Raviv, Peleg Barkat, and Magen, all agree it is a Jewish site, I believe them. Especially since Jerusalem has tombs of almost the same style and design (see <a href="/wiki/Tombs_of_the_Kings_(Jerusalem)" title="Tombs of the Kings (Jerusalem)">Tombs of the Kings</a>), as well as other places associated with Jewish population.</li> <li>Of course it is relevant, because if Jews lived in this area during this period, it supports the architectural arguments. Every area in the Mediterranean under Hellenistic and Roman rule had structures similar to Hellenistic and Roman architecture, which was the leading style of the period. It has nothing to do with the actual ethnicity of those who built these structure, who could be Illyrian in Albania, Iberian in Spain, or Berbers in Algeria. I'll let Owenglyndur address the motifs and rosettes, but anyway, that does not undermine the argument, especially since the tombs carry the same characteristics as those in Jerusalem and other places in Judea from the same time, which are undoubtedly Jewish.</li> <li>I will be able to take a deeper look when I come back from the hospital. In the meantime, please avoid using double standards when evaluating others' work, especially if you choose to work with more controversial sources on more controversial subjects, such as editing villages recently massacred by Hamas. We have enough bias issues in ARBPIA, we don't need this one as well. <a href="/wiki/User:916crdshn" title="User:916crdshn">916crdshn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:916crdshn" title="User talk:916crdshn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-916crdshn-20240620133000-Huldra-20240620090200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:30, 20 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:916crdshn" title="User:916crdshn">User:916crdshn</a> wrote: "The claim that someone who is Israeli and served in the IDF cannot be a reliable source, despite their academic achievements, is unfounded." Who has claimed that? Where? (And best wishes for your health), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240624213500-916crdshn-20240620133000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:35, 24 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd> <dd>What you write about the article the 87 year old Salman Abu Sitta wrote concerning the 7 October events is caricature. He recalled that, [I could have been one of those who broke through the siege on October 7. On May 14, 1948, my family on our land, “Ma’in Abu Sitta,” was attacked by a Haganah force of 24 armored vehicles. The force destroyed and burnt everything. The soldiers demolished the school that my father built in 1920; they stole the motor and equipment in the flour mill and well pump; they killed anyone in sight.'] In other words, what the young militants of Gaza did in attacking kibbutzim was, to him, exactly what Haganah militants did to his own and hundreds of villages. Benny Morris counted 24 documentable cases of IDF massacres against Palestinians in 1948 (the Palestinian narrative claims 65+), and rapine and rape were not infrequent. The glaring double standard is that the latter are part of an heroic narrative of achieving Israel's independence, whereas the former is just animals penned for decades up an open air concentration camp acting like the animals major politicians and IDF people claim they are. Palestinian villages or Israeli kibbutzim, the techniques were identical, and no one can claim the moral high ground. And Salman Abu Sitta made that argument long after his distinguished career of research has ended.</dd> <dd>The only serious question is epistemological. How does one distinguish a Samaritan site from a Jewish site in the majority Samaritan area of Samaria? (i.e. why is it that Judea and Samaria are claimed as Jewish when down to the Byzantine period, the demographically much larger Samaritans were classified by rabbinical thought and law as distinct from Jews. (My best wishes for a speedy recovery).<a href="/wiki/User:Nishidani" title="User:Nishidani">Nishidani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani" title="User talk:Nishidani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nishidani-20240620140100-916crdshn-20240620133000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:01, 20 June 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="remember" data-mw-thread-id="h-remember-20240805212000">remember</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=145" title="Edit section: remember">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> When somebody pretended like they were a neutral, disinterested closer in <a href="/wiki/Talk:Carmel_(Israeli_settlement)#Why?" title="Talk:Carmel (Israeli settlement)">ARBPIA</a> discussions? lol. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-20240805212000-remember" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Nableezy" title="User:Nableezy">User:Nableezy</a> hmm, can't believe I was that polite; also; has he done it again? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240805213900-Nableezy-20240805212000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Nah, way too obviously involved to try something like that again. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-20240805215600-Huldra-20240805213900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:56, 5 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Editor_experience_invitation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Editor_experience_invitation-20240823014700">Editor experience invitation</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=146" title="Edit section: Editor experience invitation">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Huldra. I'm looking for experienced editors to interview <a href="/wiki/User:Clovermoss/Editor_reflections" title="User:Clovermoss/Editor reflections">here</a>. Feel free to pass if you're not interested. <a href="/wiki/User:Clovermoss" title="User:Clovermoss">Clovermoss🍀</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Clovermoss" title="User talk:Clovermoss">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Clovermoss-20240823014700-Editor_experience_invitation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:47, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="I'm_sorry" data-mw-thread-id="h-I'm_sorry-20240823015100">I'm sorry</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=147" title="Edit section: I'm sorry">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> I should have written this a long time ago. I told myself you wouldn't want to hear from me, but honestly that was just an excuse to let myself off the hook. Thank you for the barnstar, which made me realize that I can no longer hide behind such a convenient excuse. I know it's five years too late, but I'm sorry I took you to AE. I deeply regret doing that, and I've secretly regretted it for years now. I did it for all the wrong reasons: an overinflated sense of abstract justice, a misguided belief that if one person was sanctioned for something they said in an argument, then the other person should be sanctioned, too. I'm old enough to know that two wrongs don't make a right, and I hate putting form over substance, but that's exactly what I did. It was some months after the fact that I looked at your contribs out of curiosity and realized that all I had done was rob Wikipedia of a highly productive and dedicated editor for 3 months, for no good reason; no benefit came from it whatsoever. What I did was harmful to you and to Wikipedia, and I've been embarrassed about it ever since then. Most unjust of all, while you "did the time," I'm the one who learned the lesson from it. Thank you for teaching me that, and more importantly, for educating the world and ensuring that overlooked topics are no longer overlooked. I'm in awe of your work documenting villages. I'm also in awe of your ability to turn the other cheek towards me. Most of all, I'm sorry I volunteered to make your volunteer work harder and more unpleasant. Thanks, again, for teaching me and all of us. <a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">Le,vivich</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Levivich" title="User talk:Levivich">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Levivich-20240823015100-I'm_sorry" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:51, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Gosh, <a href="/wiki/User:Levivich" title="User:Levivich">User:Levivich</a>, so <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive251#Huldra" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive251">you were the one reporting me!</a> But you give me more credit for forgiveness than I deserve: I had genuinely forgotten that, haven't forgotten the (for me: completely incomrehensible) ban, though. The whole enchilada grew out of our different background, me thinks. I grew up in a country which was occupied by the nazis in WW II, it was *the* defining event my parents life; I grew up very much in the shadow of that war (Yes, I'm old!). My late father was one of the socalled "men of the resistance", who took up arms against them: he never wore an uniform doing so. Most of my friends parents/fathers did the same. Which is why I am so absolutely furious when Americans define every fighter without uniform as a "terrorist", "unlawful combatants", or such shit. So yeah: I am *still* advocating my right (and anyones elses right) to oppose any illegal occupation! Americans -or Swiss- will just never understand.</dd> <dd>-and 5 years is a *lot* of water under the bridge, I was seriously impressed by your work <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Red-tailed_hawk#WP:INVOLVED" title="User talk:Red-tailed hawk">here</a>; you deserve that barnstar! Live an learn; live and learn, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240823214500-Levivich-20240823015100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>And I'm sorry if I sound condecending in my "Americans -or Swiss- will just never understand." But that is my experience: unless you have experienced an illegal occupation, -or lived closely with people who have- I think it is exceptionally difficult to comprehend, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240823220700-Huldra-20240823214500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 23 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""Bill_''Bojangles''_Robinson"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-"Bill_''Bojangles''_Robinson"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-20240827125100">"<a href="/w/index.php?title=Bill_%27%27Bojangles%27%27_Robinson&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Bill ''Bojangles'' Robinson (page does not exist)">Bill ''Bojangles'' Robinson</a>" listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects for discussion</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=148" title="Edit section: "Bill ''Bojangles'' Robinson" listed at Redirects for discussion">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/File:Information.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/30px-Information.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/45px-Information.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/60px-Information.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"/></a> The redirect <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bill_%27%27Bojangles%27%27_Robinson&redirect=no">Bill Bojangles Robinson</a> has been listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">redirects for discussion</a> to determine whether its use and function meets the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirect" title="Wikipedia:Redirect">redirect guidelines</a>. Anyone, including you, is welcome to comment on this redirect at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_August_27#Bill_''Bojangles''_Robinson" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 August 27">Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 August 27 § Bill Bojangles Robinson</a> until a consensus is reached. <a href="/wiki/User:1234qwer1234qwer4" title="User:1234qwer1234qwer4">1234qwer</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:1234qwer1234qwer4" title="User talk:1234qwer1234qwer4">1234qwer</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/1234qwer1234qwer4" title="Special:Contributions/1234qwer1234qwer4">4</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-1234qwer1234qwer4-20240827125100-"Bill_''Bojangles''_Robinson"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:51, 27 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Happy_First_Edit_Day!_3" data-mw-thread-id="h-Happy_First_Edit_Day!_3-20240831182700">Happy First Edit Day!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=149" title="Edit section: Happy First Edit Day!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238436933">.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);box-sizing:border-box;color:var(--color-base,#202122)}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .ombox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .ombox-content{border:1px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .ombox-style{border:1px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .ombox-move{border:1px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .ombox-protection{border:2px solid #a2a9b1}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .ombox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .ombox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .ombox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.ombox img{max-width:none!important}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .ombox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}</style><table class="box-First_Edit_Day plainlinks ombox ombox-notice" role="presentation" style="border: 2px solid CornflowerBlue; background: linear-gradient(300deg, AliceBlue, LavenderBlush 30%, LavenderBlush 70%, AliceBlue);"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><a href="/wiki/File:Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Calendar emoji" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/50px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/75px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/22/Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg/100px-Twemoji2_1f5d3.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></td><td class="mbox-text" style="padding: 0.75em; text-align:center;"><big>Happy First Edit Day!</big> Hi Huldra! On behalf of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Birthday_Committee" title="Wikipedia:Birthday Committee">Birthday Committee</a>, I'd like to wish you a very happy anniversary of the day you made <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Huldra&dir=prev&limit=1">your first edit</a> and became a Wikipedian! <a href="/wiki/User:The_Herald" class="mw-redirect" title="User:The Herald">The Herald (Benison)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:The_Herald" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:The Herald">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-The_Herald-20240831182700-Happy_First_Edit_Day!_3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:27, 31 August 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</td><td class="mbox-imageright"><a href="/wiki/File:Twemoji2_1f389.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Party popper emoji" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/50px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/75px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/95/Twemoji2_1f389.svg/100px-Twemoji2_1f389.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></a></td></tr></tbody></table> Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240902203800-Happy_First_Edit_Day!_3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:38, 2 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Good_article_reassessment_for_Bayt_Jibrin" data-mw-thread-id="h-Good_article_reassessment_for_Bayt_Jibrin-20240904113400">Good article reassessment for <a href="/wiki/Bayt_Jibrin" title="Bayt Jibrin">Bayt Jibrin</a></h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=150" title="Edit section: Good article reassessment for Bayt Jibrin">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/Bayt_Jibrin" title="Bayt Jibrin">Bayt Jibrin</a> has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_article_reassessment/Bayt_Jibrin/1" title="Wikipedia:Good article reassessment/Bayt Jibrin/1">reassessment page</a>. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Isaidnoway" title="User:Isaidnoway"> Isaidnoway </a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Isaidnoway" title="User talk:Isaidnoway">(talk)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Isaidnoway-20240904113400-Good_article_reassessment_for_Bayt_Jibrin" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:34, 4 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Ok,<a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20240921233800-Isaidnoway-20240904113400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:38, 21 September 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Administrator_Noticeboard_Notice_(October_2024)" data-mw-thread-id="h-Administrator_Noticeboard_Notice_(October_2024)-20241027042800">Administrator Noticeboard Notice (October 2024)</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=151" title="Edit section: Administrator Noticeboard Notice (October 2024)">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <img alt="Information icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/25px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/38px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/50px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/> There is currently a discussion at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents" title="Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents">Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents</a> regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.The <a href="/wiki/User:WeatherWriter" title="User:WeatherWriter">Weather Event Writer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WeatherWriter" title="User talk:WeatherWriter">Talk Page)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-WeatherWriter-20241027042800-Administrator_Noticeboard_Notice_(October_2024)" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:28, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <ul><li>Just a note, I am not accusing you of anything. The AN/I notice is that a media article has accused you of violating Wikipedia guidelines, and this media article was mentioned at AN/I. The <a href="/wiki/User:WeatherWriter" title="User:WeatherWriter">Weather Event Writer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WeatherWriter" title="User talk:WeatherWriter">Talk Page)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-WeatherWriter-20241027042800-WeatherWriter-20241027042800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:28, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:WeatherWriter" title="User:WeatherWriter">User:WeatherWriter</a>: I don't see my name on ANI? Could you please point me to the discussion? That off-wiki a media or blogs accuse me of wrong-doing: I'm getting quite used to that, ;/ <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241027202200-WeatherWriter-20241027042800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:22, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:WeatherWriter" title="User:WeatherWriter">User:WeatherWriter</a>: Ah, I think I found it, it was the discussion about <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://archive.is/ZqHRu">this</a> article. I find it pretty insulting to be called "pro-Hamas", though, I wonder how people would react if I started referring to anyone I disagreed with on IP-issues as "pro-genocide"? I would get instantly banned from Wikipedia, that's for sure, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241027203700-WeatherWriter-20241027042800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:37, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Also; hopefully needless to say: I have never been a member or even read "Discord group called Tech For Palestine"; <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241027204800-WeatherWriter-20241027042800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yeah, it was the AN/I discussion regarding that specific article. Per AN/I guidelines, I am required to alert editors "involved", and since the discussion was specifically regarding that article being published and you were a named editor in that article, you got notified. I notified every editor who was named in the article because of the AN/I guidelines. The AN/I part was closed fairly quickly after I found out it was being discussed/investigated on ArbCom already. It looks like several others commented after the initial AN/I part [notifying the administrators about the article being published] was solved and formally closed. So, hopefully that explains why you got an AN/I notice. Since you were named, I would recommend watching that ArbCom case regarding it (which started before my AN/I notices even). The <a href="/wiki/User:WeatherWriter" title="User:WeatherWriter">Weather Event Writer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:WeatherWriter" title="User talk:WeatherWriter">Talk Page)</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-WeatherWriter-20241027205100-Huldra-20241027204800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:WeatherWriter" title="User:WeatherWriter">User:WeatherWriter</a>: I don't know if I will bother, not on such silly "evidence" anyway. I mean: <a href="/wiki/User:Icewhiz" title="User:Icewhiz">User:Icewhiz</a> and I have edited <a class="external text" href="https://sigma.toolforge.org/editorinteract.py?users=huldra&users=icewhiz&users=&startdate=&enddate=&ns=&server=enwiki">lots</a> of the same articles. But I would get seriously insulted if anyone suggested that I had "conspired" with Icewhiz! cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241027210100-WeatherWriter-20241027205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:01, 27 October 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Arbitration_case_request" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arbitration_case_request-20241106040900">Arbitration case request</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=152" title="Edit section: Arbitration case request">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Covert_canvassing_and_proxying_in_the_Israel-Arab_conflict_topic_area" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Covert canvassing and proxying in the Israel-Arab conflict topic area</a> and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Party_Guide/Introduction" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Party Guide/Introduction">guide to arbitration</a> and the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Procedures#Arbitration_proceedings" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Procedures">Arbitration Committee's procedures</a> may be of use. Thanks, <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">BilledMammal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilledMammal" title="User talk:BilledMammal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-BilledMammal-20241106040900-Arbitration_case_request" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:09, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Thank_you!" data-mw-thread-id="h-Thank_you!-20241106101500">Thank you!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=153" title="Edit section: Thank you!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Vulpes_vulpes_laying_in_snow.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Vulpes_vulpes_laying_in_snow.jpg/150px-Vulpes_vulpes_laying_in_snow.jpg" decoding="async" width="150" height="100" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Vulpes_vulpes_laying_in_snow.jpg/225px-Vulpes_vulpes_laying_in_snow.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Vulpes_vulpes_laying_in_snow.jpg/300px-Vulpes_vulpes_laying_in_snow.jpg 2x" data-file-width="3072" data-file-height="2040"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure> Just wanted to drop by and say thanks for helping connect the <a href="/wiki/1938_al-Bassa_Massacre" class="mw-redirect" title="1938 al-Bassa Massacre">1938 al-Bassa Massacre</a> article to the rest of Wikipedia. I appreciate the assist in removing the orphan status—it really makes a difference! Thanks again! <a href="/wiki/User:Imteghren" title="User:Imteghren">Imteghren</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Imteghren" title="User talk:Imteghren">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Imteghren-20241106101500-Thank_you!" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:15, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Imteghren" title="User:Imteghren">User:Imteghren</a>: Thank you for starting the article! <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241106222000-Imteghren-20241106101500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:20, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Multiple_different_signatures" data-mw-thread-id="h-Multiple_different_signatures-20241108204800">Multiple different signatures</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=154" title="Edit section: Multiple different signatures">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Is there a reason you are signing your comments <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Statement_by_Huldra2" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case"> here</a> variously as Huldra and as Josef K? <a href="/wiki/User:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User:IOHANNVSVERVS">IOHANNVSVERVS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-IOHANNVSVERVS-20241108204800-Multiple_different_signatures" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User:IOHANNVSVERVS">User:IOHANNVSVERVS</a>: I guess it should all have been Joseph K. after <a href="/wiki/The_Trial" title="The Trial">The Trial</a>: "Josef K., a man arrested and prosecuted by a remote, inaccessible authority, with the nature of his crime revealed neither to him nor to the reader." What gave rise to the word <a href="/wiki/Kafkaesque" class="mw-redirect" title="Kafkaesque">Kafkaesque</a>, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241108205100-IOHANNVSVERVS-20241108204800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:51, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Ah, I see. Not very professional/appropriate I wouldn't think and a cause of confusion. You'd probably do well to revert that. You're statement speaks for itself regarding the Kafkaesqueness of the situation. Just some advice from a non-admin. <a href="/wiki/User:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User:IOHANNVSVERVS">IOHANNVSVERVS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-IOHANNVSVERVS-20241108205500-Huldra-20241108205100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:55, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User:IOHANNVSVERVS">User:IOHANNVSVERVS</a>: I hope the arb.com members take the reference: this situation is really <a href="/wiki/Kafkaesque" class="mw-redirect" title="Kafkaesque">Kafkaesque</a> to me. If it cause confusion, I will follow your advice and sign myself as <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241108210000-IOHANNVSVERVS-20241108205500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>For what it's worth, I'd personally strongly recommend you do so. Best to take seriously and respect the time/attention of the Arbcom admins. Also my first thought was multiple people were using your account or something like that. <a href="/wiki/User:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User:IOHANNVSVERVS">IOHANNVSVERVS</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User talk:IOHANNVSVERVS">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-IOHANNVSVERVS-20241108210300-Huldra-20241108210000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:03, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:IOHANNVSVERVS" title="User:IOHANNVSVERVS">User:IOHANNVSVERVS</a>: <img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/> Done, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241108210800-IOHANNVSVERVS-20241108210300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:08, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="November_2024" data-mw-thread-id="h-November_2024-20241111035700">November 2024</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=155" title="Edit section: November 2024">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <a href="/wiki/File:Information_orange.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Information icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Information_orange.svg/25px-Information_orange.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Information_orange.svg/38px-Information_orange.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f0/Information_orange.svg/50px-Information_orange.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"/></a> Please do not add commentary, your own point of view, or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard" title="Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard">Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard</a>. Doing so violates Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view" title="Wikipedia:Neutral point of view">neutral point of view policy</a> and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Please adhere to NPOV, and don't try to manipulate policy to advance your personal POV. In particular, it's not acceptable to hold sources to different standards, as you do for Al Jazeera and Jerusalem Post in the following !votes: Al Jazeera <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237805129">.mw-parser-output .talkquote{color:var(--color-base,#202122);background-color:#eaf8f4;border-left:3px solid #008560;padding:0 .8em;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .talkquote-by,.mw-parser-output .talkquote-source{margin-left:1.6em}.mw-parser-output .skin-vector-2022 .talkquote>:last-child{padding-bottom:0}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .talkquote{background-color:#0d261f}}</style><blockquote class="talkquote">Option 1, Generally reliable, largely by <a href="/wiki/User:Horse_Eye%27s_Back" title="User:Horse Eye's Back">User:Horse Eye's Back</a>; as they correctly remarked that this is blatant cherry-picking, I suspect I could find equal examples in most of the major Israeli newspapers, (How many of them have corrected their Oct 7th reports about "40 beheaded babies" and "cold-blooded murder of pregnant woman and her foetus"? — <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:GoToComment/c-Huldra-20240819231800-Survey_(Al_Jazeera_-_Arab-Israeli_conflict)" title="Special:GoToComment/c-Huldra-20240819231800-Survey (Al Jazeera - Arab-Israeli conflict)">23:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)</a></blockquote> Jerusalem Post <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237805129"><blockquote class="talkquote">Option 4, as they still have clearly false statements on Oct 7 "decapitation babies" still online, after they have been debunked for over a year, — <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">User:Huldra</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:GoToComment/c-Huldra-20241028223700-Slatersteven-20241028135900" title="Special:GoToComment/c-Huldra-20241028223700-Slatersteven-20241028135900">22:37, 28 October 2024 (UTC)</a></blockquote> You describe these examples as equal, but for sources you agree with they result in "Generally reliable", while for sources you disagree with they result in "Deprecate". <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">BilledMammal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilledMammal" title="User talk:BilledMammal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-BilledMammal-20241111035700-November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:57, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">BilledMammal</a>: This is harassment. RSN is not a Wikipedia article and editors are perfectly entitled to express their opinion there. Like you often do. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-20241111110300-BilledMammal-20241111035700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>POV pushing can occur outside of mainspace. For example, Huldra’s behaviour at RSN - and if successful, with considerably more disruption, as it would affect hundreds or thousands of articles.</dd> <dd>And just generally - is this really behaviour you want to encourage? The end result will be a more biased and less neutral encyclopaedia, and that isn’t something any of us should be seeking. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">BilledMammal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilledMammal" title="User talk:BilledMammal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-BilledMammal-20241111112800-Zero0000-20241111110300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:28, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>She didn’t describe them as equal, and they aren’t, and I’ll be discussing this tactic of misleadingly claiming some equivalency at the arbitration case. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-20241111115000-BilledMammal-20241111112800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:50, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>How else would you interpret <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">I suspect I could find equal examples in most of the major Israeli newspapers, (How many of them have corrected their Oct 7th reports about "40 beheaded babies" and "cold-blooded murder of pregnant woman and her foetus"?</q>? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">BilledMammal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilledMammal" title="User talk:BilledMammal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-BilledMammal-20241111120800-Nableezy-20241111115000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:08, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>That other equal examples exist, but those are a couple of extraordinary ones. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-20241111121300-BilledMammal-20241111120800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:13, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don’t think that interpretation is reasonable. At no point do they suggest that these are extraordinary examples, as opposed to the equal examples that they are discussing. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">BilledMammal</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BilledMammal" title="User talk:BilledMammal">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-BilledMammal-20241111121400-Nableezy-20241111121300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:14, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I don’t think it’s reasonable for you to be templating an editor with more than a decade of contributions on you, but I’m not going to badger you on your talk page about it either. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-20241111123600-BilledMammal-20241111121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:36, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>But I’m curious, do you actually think <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Al Jazeera claimed that Fourteen children were killed, as well as nine women in an Israeli attack. This is false; nine children and three women died. While the figures did match the initial figures reported by al-Aqsa hospital, those figures had been corrected hours prior to the report being published - and even if the figures had been corrected after, Al Jazeera's decision to put them in their own voice would have meant that they still had a responsibility to issue a correction.</q> is the same as falsely claiming to have verified photos that we know conclusively never existed? Do you think it is the same as claiming a dead baby was a doll and an example of Palestinian propaganda? Have you held JPost to the same standard you attempted to hold Al-Jazeera to? You previously attempted to keep CAMERA in an article, were you holding CAMERA to the same standard you claimed Al-Jazeera should be held to? <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nableezy" title="User talk:Nableezy">nableezy</a> - <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Nableezy-20241111155800-BilledMammal-20241111121400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:58, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">User:BilledMammal</a>: What zero000 and Nableezy said. You are comparing apples with oranges .....or mosquitos with elephants; cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241111233600-November_2024" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:36, 11 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" data-mw-thread-id="h-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message-20241119000500">ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=156" title="Edit section: ArbCom 2024 Elections voter message">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="ivmbox" style="margin-bottom: 1em; border: 1px solid #a2a9b1; background-color: #fdf2d5; padding: 0.5em; display: flex; align-items: center;"> <div class="ivmbox-image noresize" style="padding-left:1px; padding-right:0.5em;"><a href="/wiki/File:Scale_of_justice_2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/40px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/60px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Scale_of_justice_2.svg/80px-Scale_of_justice_2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="204" data-file-height="208"/></a></div> <div class="ivmbox-text"> Hello! Voting in the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ACE2024" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ACE2024">2024 Arbitration Committee elections</a> is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 2 December 2024. All <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024#Election_timeline" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024">eligible users</a> are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:ARBCOM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:ARBCOM">Arbitration Committee</a> is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration">Wikipedia arbitration process</a>. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BAN">site bans</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TBAN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TBAN">topic bans</a>, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Policy">arbitration policy</a> describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate in the 2024 election, please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2024/Candidates" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2024/Candidates">the candidates</a> and submit your choices on the <a href="/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/vote/813" title="Special:SecurePoll/vote/813">voting page</a>. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:NoACEMM" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:NoACEMM">NoACEMM</a>}}</code> to your user talk page. <a href="/wiki/User:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User:MediaWiki message delivery">MediaWiki message delivery</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:MediaWiki_message_delivery" title="User talk:MediaWiki message delivery">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-MediaWiki_message_delivery-20241119000500-ArbCom_2024_Elections_voter_message" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:05, 19 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Arbitration_case_request_declined" data-mw-thread-id="h-Arbitration_case_request_declined-20241120062700">Arbitration case request declined</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=157" title="Edit section: Arbitration case request declined">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> Hi Huldra. The Arbitration Committee has decided not to open a public case in response to the case request <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1258331988#Covert_canvassing_and_proxying_in_the_Israel-Arab_conflict_topic_area" title="Special:PermanentLink/1258331988">Covert canvassing and proxying in the Israel-Arab conflict topic area</a>, which has now been removed. The Committee will separately decide whether to take any action based on the private evidence that was mentioned in that case request. (In response to another request, the Committee also <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1257495560#Arbitration_motions_regarding_Palestine-Israel_articles" title="Special:PermanentLink/1257495560">decided to open</a> a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5">Palestine-Israel articles 5</a> case. It is planned to be opened on November 30 so that the there is time before then for the Committee to consider that private evidence separately from that case.) For the Arbitration Committee, <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust">SilverLocust</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-SilverLocust-20241120062700-Arbitration_case_request_declined" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust">User:SilverLocust</a>: may I then have a copy of the "private evidence" against me? BIladMammal said arb.com could share it whith me, I emailed them asking for it, but have heard nothing, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241120200600-SilverLocust-20241120062700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:06, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Hi Huldra. The Committee is currently working out some behind the scenes aspects of how to reveal the evidence, but I hope to have it collated and approved to send to you soon. For the sake of transparency and expectations, I don't think the decline of the public case was the last word, and I do foresee further proceedings in this matter. How exactly we achieve that is part of what we're working out. <a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">CaptainEek</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaptainEek" title="User talk:CaptainEek">Edits Ho Cap'n!</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CaptainEek" title="Special:Contributions/CaptainEek">⚓</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-CaptainEek-20241120215600-Huldra-20241120200600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:56, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd> <dd>Thank you <a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">User:CaptainEek</a>, I hope I am given a chance to defend myself. I still have absolutely no clue as to which banned editor I am supposed to have colluded with. Yes, I started an article -as there was a lot of "twitterati" twittering about him. Is that a mortal wiki-sin? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241120220200-Huldra-20241120200600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I absolutely want to make sure everyone has a fair chance and sufficient time to provide a defense or explanation. I really want to make sure we do this right and in a humane manner. <a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">CaptainEek</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaptainEek" title="User talk:CaptainEek">Edits Ho Cap'n!</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CaptainEek" title="Special:Contributions/CaptainEek">⚓</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-CaptainEek-20241120220500-Huldra-20241120220200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Sorry,<a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">User:CaptainEek</a>: I cannot say I feel you are succeeding splendidly, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241120220800-CaptainEek-20241120220500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I'm aware. We're moving as fast as we can while trying not to make mistakes. <a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">CaptainEek</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaptainEek" title="User talk:CaptainEek">Edits Ho Cap'n!</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CaptainEek" title="Special:Contributions/CaptainEek">⚓</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-CaptainEek-20241120221100-Huldra-20241120220800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I feel you are moving at 1-2 <a href="/wiki/Knot_(unit)" title="Knot (unit)">knots</a> speed: I could swim faster (once upon a time). Anyway, in order not to distract you from your work at arb.com, I'll leave it here, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241120221600-CaptainEek-20241120221100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_barnstar_for_you!_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_barnstar_for_you!_2-20241120213700">A barnstar for you!</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=158" title="Edit section: A barnstar for you!">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <table style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"> <tbody><tr> <td rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;"><a href="/wiki/File:Special_Barnstar_Hires.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Special_Barnstar_Hires.png/100px-Special_Barnstar_Hires.png" decoding="async" width="100" height="95" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Special_Barnstar_Hires.png/150px-Special_Barnstar_Hires.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e4/Special_Barnstar_Hires.png/200px-Special_Barnstar_Hires.png 2x" data-file-width="2000" data-file-height="1900"/></a> </td> <td style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;">The Special Barnstar </td></tr> <tr> <td style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;">:) <a href="/wiki/User:Mr.Karhi" title="User:Mr.Karhi">Mr.Karhi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mr.Karhi" title="User talk:Mr.Karhi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Mr.Karhi-20241120213700-A_barnstar_for_you!_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:37, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] </td></tr></tbody></table> Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:Mr.Karhi" title="User:Mr.Karhi">User:Mr.Karhi</a>, As you can see, I started working on <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Basheer_K._Nijim" title="User:Huldra/Basheer K. Nijim">User:Huldra/Basheer K. Nijim</a>, but got distracted. There are so many things happening at the moment. Please feel free to work on <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra/Basheer_K._Nijim" title="User:Huldra/Basheer K. Nijim">User:Huldra/Basheer K. Nijim</a>, if you feel like it, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241120215300-A_barnstar_for_you!_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thanks for your great work. <a href="/wiki/User:Mr.Karhi" title="User:Mr.Karhi">Mr.Karhi</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Mr.Karhi" title="User talk:Mr.Karhi">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Mr.Karhi-20241124230000-Huldra-20241120215300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:00, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Please_check_your_email" data-mw-thread-id="h-Please_check_your_email-20241124000700">Please check your email</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=159" title="Edit section: Please check your email">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1256396942"> <div class="umbox"><figure class="mw-halign-left" typeof="mw:File"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/40px-Mail-message-new.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/60px-Mail-message-new.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Mail-message-new.svg/80px-Mail-message-new.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/><figcaption></figcaption></figure>Hello, Huldra. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit">remove this notice</a> at any time by removing the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:You%27ve_got_mail" title="Template:You've got mail">You've got mail</a>}} or {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Ygm" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Ygm">ygm</a>}} template.</div> <a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">CaptainEek</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaptainEek" title="User talk:CaptainEek">Edits Ho Cap'n!</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CaptainEek" title="Special:Contributions/CaptainEek">⚓</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-CaptainEek-20241124000700-Please_check_your_email" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:07, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Thank you, <a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">User:CaptainEek</a>; got it. May I make it public? I would very much like to. I don't see why not, as all the links are to public tweets and my (very) public wp-edits? <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241124200300-CaptainEek-20241124000700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:03, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>Yes, you may, so long as you aren't trying to out anyone. I'll caution you that what you say will be considered by the Committee, for better or worse. <a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">CaptainEek</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:CaptainEek" title="User talk:CaptainEek">Edits Ho Cap'n!</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/CaptainEek" title="Special:Contributions/CaptainEek">⚓</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-CaptainEek-20241124215000-Huldra-20241124200300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:50, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">User:CaptainEek</a>: thank you, much appreciated. I am not trying to out anyone, as I have no-one to "out": I have no idea as to the RL identities of the people involved, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241124215300-CaptainEek-20241124215000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:53, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> <ul><li>this is the "private evidence":</li></ul> The summarized evidence follows: Four hours after [Twitter user ZeiSquirrel, a banned Wikipedia user] requested (<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1779190523757998392">https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1779190523757998392</a>) that people add information "exposing" Chen Kugel and Nurit Bublil, you started creating the article on Chen Kugel (<a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chen_Kugel&oldid=1218787683">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chen_Kugel&oldid=1218787683</a>), and when finished the article included the requested information (<a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chen_Kugel&oldid=1218806594">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chen_Kugel&oldid=1218806594</a>). ZeiSquirrel also called for adding the information on Chen's article on the German Wiki; you didn't do so, but you did edit the article at the same time (<a class="external free" href="https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chen_Kugel&diff=prev&oldid=244023957">https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Chen_Kugel&diff=prev&oldid=244023957</a>). Several of the sources you added were provided by ZeiSquirrel, including an Economist article (<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1765132760224846142/photo/1">https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1765132760224846142/photo/1</a>) and a Haaretz article (<a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1765132760224846142/photo/2">https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1765132760224846142/photo/2</a>). My comment: as stated earlier I stated the <a href="/wiki/Chen_Kugel" title="Chen Kugel">Chen Kugel</a>-article, as I saw him mentioned a lot on social media, as he had claimed he had seen beheaded babies 7th Oct., when there were 0 beheaded babies that day. Was it ZeiSquirrel's tweet? Possibly, but s/he for sure wasn't the only one mentioning <a href="/wiki/Chen_Kugel" title="Chen Kugel">Chen Kugel</a>. I had no idea that ZeiSquirrel was a "banned Wikipedia user" (they for sure don't advertises that), and I have no idea as to who is behind the ZeiSquirrel account. I assume you have that info from <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:BilledMammal&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:BilledMammal (page does not exist)">User:BilledMammal</a>? I don't know who is behind the BilledMammal-account, either. For all I know, they could be the same. (highly unlikely, I admit), <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241124221400-Please_check_your_email" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:14, 24 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>For what it's worth, and I don't think I need permission to share this since it only involves me and Zei Squirrel, who is an anonymous account so there's no way to out them, I was also accused of proxying for them. The entire accusation relies on them a) being a banned editor and b) me being aware of it. Which there's no proof of. I actually did a deep dive into their twitter account trying to find anything that could point to them being a banned editor, since I have never seen anyone even alluding to that, and couldn't find any user with that name here. I found a tweet which I am 100% sure is what prompted BM to make this ridiculous accusation based on a comment he made in the original case (don't wanna link the diff since it includes content removed by an admin, but anyone can check the archives) that reads <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Edited Alexei Navalny. In the edit request, the editor disclosed they were banned.</q> which says, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://x.com/zei_squirrel/status/1758999317669376343">verbatim</a>: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">why don't you add the quote from the Financial Times on Navalny making a video where he depicts Muslims as cockroaches and then pulls out a gun to shoot them? Because if you add that to Saint Navalny's page, you'll get banned by Wiki cunt "editors"</q>. Now, English is not my first language, so correct me if I'm wrong, but if that is all the existing proof of them "admitting" to being banned, I would say it is extremely weak. Anyone can infer that they were making a general statement that if you say X you will get banned, not that they were actually banned. If this is the only proof of their ban, and everything points to that, then it is laughable for the Committee to entertain this. We should be presented with clear, concrete, undisputable evidence supporting these accusations. I haven't seen any, and now we are forced to go out of our way to clean our names and prove that we were not proxying for someone, when it should be BM making an effort to prove that this person is effectively banned and directing us to make specific edits, with our full knowledge that they were banned. If such proof exists, it hasn't been shared with me, when there's no reason to withold it. So I have to assume that it doesn't exists, and that this is based on a purposeful misinterpretation of a tweet by someone clearly engaging in WP:BATTLEGROUND behavior for the past couple of months.</dd> <dd>I think it's amazing how in cases like this someone is able to throw very public accusations, echoed by a bunch of unemployed losers tracking our every move, and who make a spectacle out of it, when the evidence presented to us is subpar or nonexistent. Maybe this can also be discussed in ARBPIA5. - <a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">Ïvana</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:%C3%8Fvana" title="User talk:Ïvana">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Ïvana-20241126225800-Huldra-20241124221400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:58, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:%C3%8Fvana" title="User:Ïvana">User:Ïvana</a>: Zei Squirrel has a rather particular "voice", and I cannot recall anyone on wiki with a similar "voice". My first thought when I heard about the Discord-channel (is that the right word? English is my 4th language: no kidding) and that s/he was there, was that it was incredibly naive...and "newbie-ish"; of course some pro-Israeli people would join and "out" the lot. I recall from the so-called <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CAMERA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CAMERA">WP:CAMERA</a>-case: one of the first thing people there did, was to sign up for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Palestine" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Palestine">WP:WikiProject Palestine</a>. And true enough, everybody who joined there (according to the BM arb.com case) were (in my eyes) "newbies" (no insult meant!)</dd> <dd>BM seem to have specific info (private Evidence C, private Evidence D) as to whom s/he is, but to me Zei Squirrel seems completely "wiki-illiterate".</dd> <dd>I sure hope all the meritless reports that have been made the last month or two will also be a part of ARBPIA5, cheers, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241126234900-Ïvana-20241126225800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:49, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> To editor <a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">CaptainEek</a>: Huldra is a highly experienced competent editor who doesn't need anyone to tell her what to write on Wikipedia. As an example of how weak this evidence is, the Haaretz article that Huldra supposedly added on ZeiSquirrel's command (made 5 weeks earlier!) is a famous article that was already present in multiple articles about the same topic. Anyone writing about the alleged babies is very likely to cite it. Here are 7 examples all dated before ZeiSquirrel's X post: <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Misinformation_in_the_Israel–Hamas_war&diff=prev&oldid=1211144370">[34]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=7_October_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel&diff=prev&oldid=1188471604">[35]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Be%27eri_massacre&diff=prev&oldid=1188841355">[36]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kfar_Aza_massacre&diff=prev&oldid=1188302380">[37]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ZAKA&diff=prev&oldid=1196490981">[38]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ZAKA&diff=prev&oldid=1196490981">[39]</a> <a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22Hamas+committed+documented%22&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1&ns1=1&ns2=1&ns3=1&ns4=1&ns5=1&ns6=1&ns7=1&ns8=1&ns9=1&ns10=1&ns11=1&ns12=1&ns13=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&ns100=1&ns101=1&ns118=1&ns119=1&ns126=1&ns127=1&ns710=1&ns711=1&ns828=1&ns829=1&searchToken=eo8mmaehuglx4kzogiuklwxdc">[40]</a> There were also some early talk page mentions that I won't list. The Economist article was also cited already, in the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=7_October_Hamas-led_attack_on_Israel&diff=prev&oldid=1183934897">main article on the Hamas attack</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Zero0000" title="User:Zero0000">Zero</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Zero0000" title="User talk:Zero0000">talk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Zero0000-20241125025100-Please_check_your_email" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:51, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:CaptainEek" title="User:CaptainEek">User:CaptainEek</a>, I don't understand why this was kept secret. Everything is public, except: [Twitter user ZeiSquirrel, a banned Wikipedia user]. And I have only arb.com/BilledMammal's word for that. There have been no user on wp named "ZeiSquirrel", or anything close.</dd> <dd>As Zero has mentioned, that <a href="/wiki/Haaretz" title="Haaretz">Haaretz</a>-article is rather famous (a zillion tweets about it, I read it first when it was published): it was the first time <a href="/wiki/Mainstream_media" title="Mainstream media">MSM</a> in Israel stated what certain more left-wing sites (like <a href="/wiki/The_Electronic_Intifada" title="The Electronic Intifada">The Electronic Intifada</a>, <a href="/wiki/The_Grayzone" title="The Grayzone">The Grayzone</a>) had written for months: that all of the statements about what happened the 7th Oct. simply didn't add up. Or, to put it another way: someone were lying.</dd> <dd>Even if I had gotten the refs (<a href="/wiki/The_Economist" title="The Economist">The Economist</a> and <a href="/wiki/Haaretz" title="Haaretz">Haaretz</a>) from ZeiSquirrel, so what? I had no way of knowing that ZeiSquirrel was a banned user, and the two sources are undisputed <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">WP:RS</a>.</dd> <dd>My edit on German Wikipedia, was correcting the birthplace: I of course 100% stand behind that edit. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241125224300-Zero0000-20241125025100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:43, 25 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>I follow Huldra's page and saw this pop up. So, is the billedmammal account simply allowed to get away with this smearing and manipulation? I sure hope not.<a href="/wiki/User:Dan_Murphy" title="User:Dan Murphy">Dan Murphy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_Murphy" title="User talk:Dan Murphy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_Murphy-20241126032600-Huldra-20241125224300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:26, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Dan_Murphy" title="User:Dan Murphy">User:Dan Murphy</a>: I suspect so. As you can see, they tried something similar here: <a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#November_2024">User_talk:Huldra#November_2024</a>; I'm getting used to it. It has been the same for all the editors not found "pro-Israeli" enough, since at least August this year. I guess we should feel honoured that there are at least 4 twitter-accounts dedicated to scrutinising our every edit, <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241126204000-Dan_Murphy-20241126032600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:40, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd>It's almost like there's... offsite coordination going on! And that's bad!<a href="/wiki/User:Dan_Murphy" title="User:Dan Murphy">Dan Murphy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dan_Murphy" title="User talk:Dan Murphy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Dan_Murphy-20241126211700-Huldra-20241126204000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:17, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Dan_Murphy" title="User:Dan Murphy">User:Dan Murphy</a> <abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/18px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/27px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/36px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></abbr> "they" are persistent, I'll give them that. It's a time-sink, though (and not only for me) it is difficult at times finding time to do what I came here for. <a href="/wiki/User:Huldra" title="User:Huldra">Huldra</a> (<a class="mw-selflink-fragment" href="#top">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-Huldra-20241126212400-Dan_Murphy-20241126211700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:24, 26 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>]</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Palestine-Israel_articles_5_arbitration_case_opened" data-mw-thread-id="h-Palestine-Israel_articles_5_arbitration_case_opened-20241130061400"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5">Palestine-Israel articles 5</a> arbitration case opened</h2>[<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&action=edit&section=160" title="Edit section: Palestine-Israel articles 5 arbitration case opened">edit</a>]<div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> You offered a statement in an arbitration enforcement referral. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5</a>. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Evidence" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5/Evidence">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5/Evidence</a>. Please add your evidence by 23:59, 14 December 2024 (UTC), which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel_articles_5/Workshop" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5/Workshop">Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 5/Workshop</a>. For a guide to the arbitration process, see <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Arbitration_Committee/Party_Guide/Introduction" title="Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Party Guide/Introduction">Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Party Guide/Introduction</a>. For the Arbitration Committee, <a href="/wiki/User:SilverLocust" title="User:SilverLocust">SilverLocust</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SilverLocust" title="User talk:SilverLocust">💬</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Huldra#c-SilverLocust-20241130061400-Palestine-Israel_articles_5_arbitration_case_opened" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:14, 30 November 2024 (UTC)</a>[<a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a>] <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1209489738">Cite error: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1209489738">There are <code><ref group=lower-alpha></code> tags or <code>{{efn}}</code> templates on this page, but the references will not show without a <code>{{reflist|group=lower-alpha}}</code> template or <code>{{notelist}}</code> template (see the <a href="/wiki/Help:Cite_errors/Cite_error_group_refs_without_references" title="Help:Cite errors/Cite error group refs without references">help page</a>).    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&oldid=1260342499">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Huldra&oldid=1260342499</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-hidden-catlinks" class="mw-hidden-catlinks mw-hidden-cats-hidden">Hidden categories: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Talk_pages_with_reference_errors" title="Category:Talk pages with reference errors">Talk pages with reference errors</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_reference_errors_that_trigger_visual_diffs" title="Category:Pages with reference errors that trigger visual diffs">Pages with reference errors that trigger visual diffs</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 30 November 2024, at 06:14 (UTC).</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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