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Follow our progress with weekly meeting agendas, project schedules, and the occasional code debate. </li> <li>If you'd like to get involved with core, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/handbook/">check out our handbook for how to do so</a>.</li> </ul></div> </li> <li id="blog_subscription-2" class="widget jetpack_subscription_widget"><h2 class="widgettitle"><label for="subscribe-field">Email Updates</label></h2> <a id="subscribe-blog"></a> <form action="" method="post" accept-charset="utf-8" id="subscribe-blog"> <p>Subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email.</p><p>Join 1,964 other subscribers</p> <p><input type="text" name="email" style="width: 95%; padding: 1px 2px" value="Email Address" id="subscribe-field" onclick="if ( this.value == 'Email Address' ) { this.value = ''; }" onblur="if ( this.value == '' ) { this.value = 'Email Address'; }"/></p> <p> <input type="hidden" name="action" value="subscribe"/> <input type="hidden" name="source" value="http://make.wordpress.org/core/"/> <input type="hidden" name="sub-type" value="widget"/> <input type="hidden" name="redirect_fragment" value="blog_subscription-2"/> <input type="submit" value="Sign me up!" name="jetpack_subscriptions_widget"/> </p> </form> </li> <li id="text-6" class="widget widget_text"><h2 class="widgettitle">Current Dev Cycle</h2> <div class="textwidget"><ul> <li>WordPress 3.6 is in development.</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/version-3-6-project-schedule/">3.6 Project Schedule</a></li> </ul></div> </li> <li id="text-4" class="widget widget_text"><h2 class="widgettitle">Weekly Developer Chats</h2> <div class="textwidget"><ul> <li>Wednesdays @ <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=21&min=00&sec=0&p1=0">21:00 UTC</a></li> <li>irc.freenode.net</li> <li>#wordpress-dev</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://wpdevel.wordpress.com/weekly-developer-chats/">About the Dev Chat</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://wpdevel.wordpress.com/tag/agenda">Dev Chat Agendas</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev">Dev Chat IRC logs</a></li> </ul></div> </li> <li id="text-7" class="widget widget_text"><h2 class="widgettitle">Version 3.6 Teams</h2> <div class="textwidget"><h4>Revisions</h4> <p> <strong>Lead:</strong> Westi<br/> <strong>Backup:</strong> ethitter<br/> <strong>IRC Hours:</strong> Mon & Thur @ <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=16&min=00&sec=0&p1=0">1600 UTC</a> </p> <h4>Autosave</h4> <p> <strong>Lead:</strong> Ozz<br/> <strong>Backup:</strong> DH_Shredder<br/> <strong>IRC Hours:</strong> Tues @ <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=21&min=00&sec=0&p1=0">2100 UTC</a> </p> <h4>Post Formats</h4> <p> <strong>Lead:</strong> Helen<br/> <strong>Backup:</strong> Pete Mall<br/> <strong>IRC Hours:</strong> Mon @ <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=19&min=00&sec=0&p1=0">1900 UTC</a> & Thur @ <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=16&min=00&sec=0&p1=0">1600 UTC</a> </p> <h4>Editorial Flow</h4> <p> <strong>Lead:</strong> Daniel Bachhuber<br/> <strong>Backup:</strong> kovshenin <strong>IRC Hours:</strong> Tues & Thur @ <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=18&min=00&sec=0&p1=0">1800 UTC</a> </p> <h4>Menus</h4> <p> <strong>Lead:</strong> Dave Martin<br/> <strong>Backup:</strong> DrewAPicture<br/> <strong>IRC Hours:</strong> Mon & Thur @ <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?hour=21&min=00&sec=0&p1=0">2100 UTC</a> </p> <h4>Maintenance & Bug Gardening</h4> <p> <strong>Lead:</strong> Sergey Biryukov<br/> </p> <h4>Twenty Thirteen</h4> <p> <strong>Lead:</strong> Lance Willett<br/> <strong>Backup:</strong> Konstantin Obenland<br/> <strong>IRC hours:</strong> TBD - Starting early-mid February </p> IRC Hours are held in #WordPress-dev on Freenode</div> </li> <li id="p2_recent_comments-3" class="widget widget_p2_recent_comments"><h2 class="widgettitle">Recent Comments</h2> <table class="p2-recent-comments" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"> <tr><td title="iamronen" class="avatar" style="height: 32px; width: 32px"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.iamronen.com/" rel="nofollow"><img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2e25520901bb826e14cde98de6be38f5?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/></a></td><td class="text"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.iamronen.com/" rel="nofollow">iamronen</a> on <a href="#comment-7784" class="tooltip" title="I think that a lot of the complexity you mentioned…">For tomorrows Menu office hour…</a></td></tr><tr><td title="lessbloat" class="avatar" style="height: 32px; width: 32px"><img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/></td><td class="text">lessbloat on <a href="#comment-7783" class="tooltip" title="So, my worry after working through all of these mo…">For tomorrows Menu office hour…</a></td></tr><tr><td title="Joey Kudish" class="avatar" style="height: 32px; width: 32px"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/jkudish/" rel="nofollow"><img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8fac9a834778de5a3b7b26fb28cff956?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/></a></td><td class="text"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/jkudish/" rel="nofollow">Joey Kudish</a> on <a href="#comment-7781" class="tooltip" title="Nice work. I really like the updated direction! A …">For tomorrows Menu office hour…</a></td></tr><tr><td title="iamronen" class="avatar" style="height: 32px; width: 32px"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.iamronen.com/" rel="nofollow"><img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2e25520901bb826e14cde98de6be38f5?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/></a></td><td class="text"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.iamronen.com/" rel="nofollow">iamronen</a> on <a href="#comment-7780" class="tooltip" title="well done. I would consider better balance between…">For tomorrows Menu office hour…</a></td></tr><tr><td title="Jeremy Felt" class="avatar" style="height: 32px; width: 32px"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.jeremyfelt.com/" rel="nofollow"><img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d1759b1c669981b7c52ec9a97d19e6bd?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/></a></td><td class="text"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.jeremyfelt.com/" rel="nofollow">Jeremy Felt</a> on <a href="#comment-7779" class="tooltip" title="I haven't seen this exactly expressed yet, so toss…">Editorial Flow Update, 1/24</a></td></tr> </table></li> <li id="search-3" class="widget widget_search"><h2 class="widgettitle">Search Dev Updates</h2> <form role="search" method="get" id="searchform" action="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/"> <div><label class="screen-reader-text" for="s">Search for:</label> <input type="text" value="" name="s" id="s"/> <input type="submit" id="searchsubmit" value="Search"/> </div> </form></li> <li id="meta-3" class="widget widget_meta"><h2 class="widgettitle">Meta</h2> <ul> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php">Log in</a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/feed/" title="Syndicate this site using RSS 2.0">Entries <abbr title="Really Simple Syndication">RSS</abbr></a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/comments/feed/" title="The latest comments to all posts in RSS">Comments <abbr title="Really Simple Syndication">RSS</abbr></a></li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://wordpress.org/" title="Powered by WordPress, state-of-the-art semantic personal publishing platform.">WordPress.org</a></li> </ul> </li> </ul> <div class="clear"></div> </div>  <div class="sleeve_main"> <div id="main"> <h2> Recent Updates <span class="controls"> <a href="#" id="togglecomments"> Toggle Comment Threads</a> | <a href="#directions" id="directions-keyboard">Keyboard Shortcuts</a> </span> </h2> <ul id="postlist"> <li id="prologue-2839" class="post-2839 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-uncategorized tag-3-6 tag-revisions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/ethitter/" title="Posts by Erick Hitter ( @ethitter )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/fcf17d516139b240f405706d6fc8fc10?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/ethitter/" title="Posts by Erick Hitter ( @ethitter )">Erick Hitter</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T23:21:21Z">11:21 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/25/revision-update-125/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F25%2Frevision-update-125%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags"> <br/>Tags: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/3-6/" rel="tag">3.6 ( 21 )</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/revisions/" rel="tag">revisions ( 4 )</a>    </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2839" class="postcontent"> <h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/25/revision-update-125/">Revision Update, 1/25 </a></h2><p>Yesterday, the revisions team had its second scheduled office hours chat in #wordpress-dev at 1600 UTC. @karmatosed and I were both afk, and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/">our first chat was earlier this week</a>, so it was a short meeting [<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev&day=2013-01-24&sort=asc#m539648">IRC log</a>].</p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/mentions/nacin/" class="mention">@nacin</a> popped in to mention that he’ll be working on the API for draft changes to published content. This will overlap with, but shouldn’t take away from, the revisions efforts our team is working on. For reference, the ticket’s we’ve scoped for 3.6 are listed <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?status=accepted&status=assigned&status=closed&status=new&status=reopened&status=reviewing&component=Revisions&milestone=3.6&group=type&col=id&col=summary&col=milestone&col=status&col=owner&col=type&col=priority&order=priority">here</a>.</p> <p>Overall, progress this week has been tentative, mostly focused around<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/16215"> #16215</a> and<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/16847"> #16847</a>; thanks to @adamsilverstein for his efforts on those tickets thus far. A big area of focus in the near-term will be the UI improvements—there’s been a fair bit of discussion on this front in the comments <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/07/wordpress-3-6-revisions/">here</a> and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/">here</a>.</p> <p>Our next meeting is Monday, January 28, at 1600 UTC. At the moment, our office hours on Thursdays conflict with the Post Formats team, so one of us will have to move. We’ll keep the hours listed in the sidebar updated as we move forward.</p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2839" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> </ul> <div class="respond-wrap" style="display: none; "> <div id="respond"> <h3 id="reply-title">Reply <small><a rel="nofollow" id="cancel-comment-reply-link" href="/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/#respond" style="display:none;">Cancel reply</a></small></h3> <p class="must-log-in">You must be <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F25%2Frevision-update-125%2F">logged in</a> to post a comment.</p> </div> </div></li> <li id="prologue-2826" class="post-2826 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-uncategorized tag-3-6 tag-autosave-and-post-locking"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/dh-shredder/" title="Posts by Mike Schroder ( @dh-shredder )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/76424a001dc6b3ebb4faca0c567800c4?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/dh-shredder/" title="Posts by Mike Schroder ( @dh-shredder )">Mike Schroder</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T23:17:33Z">11:17 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/25/autosave-and-post-locking-update-125/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F25%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update-125%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags"> <br/>Tags: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/3-6/" rel="tag">3.6 ( 21 )</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/autosave-and-post-locking/" rel="tag">autosave and post locking ( 3 )</a>    </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2826" class="postcontent"> <h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/25/autosave-and-post-locking-update-125/">Autosave and Post Locking Update, 1/25 </a></h2><p>We had our <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev&day=2013-01-25&sort=asc#m540865">scheduled meeting today in IRC</a> to continue planning the feature for this cycle.</p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/mentions/azaozz/" class="mention">@azaozz</a> noted that he’s continuing work on the Heartbeat API<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23216"> #23216</a>, on schedule for initial commit before next week.</p> <p>I am continuing work on an initial pass for the post/page tables to display locks, and properly display edit/bulk edit links when locked. Should have an initial pass ready for view on Monday.</p> <p>@mintindeed offered to help port his plugin to core for improved login expiration warnings, which is great! He’s created<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23295"> #23295</a> to track the efforts.</p> <p>@asannad (AmitSannad on IRC) offered to help with localstorage Autosaves, which is being tracked on<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23220"> #23220</a>. Initially, we’ll use a simple schema for storage, but will probably need something more complex later on to avoid collisions where multiple databases are used within the same domain.</p> <p>As initial guidance for improved workflow for locks, we’re looking over the plugin mentioned in<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/18515"> #18515</a>. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/mentions/nacin/" class="mention">@nacin</a> is checking with the authors to see if there’s a new version we can take a look at.</p> <p>Our next meeting is on Tuesday, January 29th at 2100 UTC (1pm PST).</p> </div> <div class="discussion" style="display: none"> <p> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/01cfe9feaafb068590891bbd1f6a7f5a?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://nacin.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Andrew Nacin</a> is discussing. <a href="#" class="show-comments">Toggle Comments</a> </p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2826" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> <li id="comment-7775" class="comment byuser comment-author-nacin even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/01cfe9feaafb068590891bbd1f6a7f5a?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://nacin.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Andrew Nacin</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T23:49:54Z">11:49 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/25/autosave-and-post-locking-update-125/#comment-7775" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F25%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update-125%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7775" class="commentcontent"><p>Just confirming that I’ve sent an email.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="prologue-2824" class="post-2824 post type-post status-publish format-status hentry category-uncategorized tag-3-6 tag-autosave-and-post-locking"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/azaozz/" title="Posts by Andrew Ozz ( @azaozz )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4e84843ebff0918d72ade21c6ee7b1e4?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/azaozz/" title="Posts by Andrew Ozz ( @azaozz )">Andrew Ozz</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T20:20:13Z">8:20 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/25/agenda-for-todays-autosave-and-post-locking-team/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F25%2Fagenda-for-todays-autosave-and-post-locking-team%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags"> <br/>Tags: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/3-6/" rel="tag">3.6 ( 21 )</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/autosave-and-post-locking/" rel="tag">autosave and post locking ( 3 )</a>    </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2824" class="postcontent"> <p>Agenda for today’s autosave and post locking team meeting at 21:00 UTC:</p> <ul> <li>Assign contributors for each component: Autosave in the browser storage, Post locking, Login expiration warning.</li> <li>Further discussion on workflow for post locking, perhaps look at the plugin by jayminkapish on<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/18515"> #18515</a>.</li> <li>Free-form Q&A.</li> </ul> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2824" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> </ul> </li> <li id="prologue-2819" class="post-2819 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-uncategorized tag-3-6 tag-editorial-flow"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/danielbachhuber/" title="Posts by Daniel Bachhuber ( @danielbachhuber )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2cffb19eae4c61e51884d4648b2a3ed9?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/danielbachhuber/" title="Posts by Daniel Bachhuber ( @danielbachhuber )">Daniel Bachhuber</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T19:34:07Z">7:34 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags"> <br/>Tags: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/3-6/" rel="tag">3.6 ( 21 )</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/editorial-flow/" rel="tag">editorial flow ( 2 )</a>    </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2819" class="postcontent"> <h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/">Editorial Flow Update, 1/24 </a></h2><p>Kovshenin, Nacin and I chatted today in IRC about scope for editorial flow in 3.6. To help narrow things down, we’re now focusing on two things:</p> <p><strong>1) “Finishing” the existing API such that you can register new post statuses with expected results (no bugs, etc.).</strong></p> <p>Last week, Nacin and I had a <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/18/editorial-flow-update-118/">long conversation</a> about how enhancing the post status API in various ways could lead to complex, fully-featured workflows. We discussed again yesterday after the core IRC chat, and decided these enhancements still need more conceptual development. Instead, we’ll be focusing on the extent of<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/12706"> #12706</a>′s description:</p> <blockquote><p>A developer should be able to register a custom post status using register_post_status(). The admin UI (including post submit box and quick edit) should reflect this new custom post status. Furthermore, there are many hard-coded references to ‘draft’ and ‘pending’ statuses in core that should properly use the post status API.</p> <p>All existing arguments to register_post_status() should be fully implemented, should also support per-post-type arguments. As things get implemented across core, there will likely be a need for supporting capabilities and bits of API.</p></blockquote> <p>I hope to have a working, testable implementation of this by next week, using existing patches and maybe some new code.</p> <p><strong>2) Allowing already published posts to be revised without being updated immediately.</strong></p> <p>We discussed a few possible implementations of this. Our conclusion is to go with the simplest possible implementation, as there are already a few plugins to handle more complex implementations.</p> <p>Right now, it’s looking like this: a ‘draft revision’ can be created of an already published post. If a ‘draft revision’ of a post exists, it will appear in the post editor (instead of the published content). Anyone with appropriate permissions can make edits to the ‘draft revision’ without having those changes go live. Then, at some future point, the ‘draft revision’ can be pushed live to take the place of the original published post.</p> <p>Kovshenin will be working on wireframes for this over the weekend.</p> <p><strong>We want your help!</strong></p> <ul> <li>What use cases do you have for the second, user-facing feature? The more details you can provide, the better.</li> <li>Have you come across software which does the second piece well? Notably, it would let users easily choose between pushing their update live immediately, or continuing to work on and save their changes as draft.</li> </ul> <p>The next office hours will be Tuesday, January 22nd at 10 am PT / 1 pm ET / 1800 UTC.</p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev&day=2013-01-24&sort=asc#m539794" rel="nofollow">https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev&day=2013-01-24&sort=asc#m539794</a></p> </div> <div class="discussion" style="display: none"> <p> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d1759b1c669981b7c52ec9a97d19e6bd?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.jeremyfelt.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Jeremy Felt</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/3094298ee1d4ce597e3b5319436e3e99?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> sourceforge, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/c6d87b472b471d66cd4cb8302273df9b?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://stresslimitdesign.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">cvernon</a>, and 10 others are discussing. <a href="#" class="show-comments">Toggle Comments</a> </p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2819" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> <li id="comment-7743" class="comment byuser comment-author-mordauk even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/edcaf8a5c1dc7c741113d772e767bfc2?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://pippinsplugins.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Pippin (mordauk)</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T19:50:52Z">7:50 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7743" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7743" class="commentcontent"><p>2). This is something I have really wanted for a long time, excellent!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7744" class="comment byuser comment-author-cliffseal odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/a32b058efa650fa963e8f0b284c08e04?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cliffseal.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Cliff Seal</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T19:51:19Z">7:51 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7744" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7744" class="commentcontent"><p>“What use cases do you have for the second, user-facing feature?”</p> <p>One example would be updates to breaking news, especially inside a larger news organization where there’s a review process. As news becomes more real-time (for better or worse), the space between updating a single post and live blogging will become more populated.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7745" class="comment byuser comment-author-danielbachhuber bypostauthor even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2cffb19eae4c61e51884d4648b2a3ed9?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://danielbachhuber.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Daniel Bachhuber</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T20:00:28Z">8:00 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7745" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7745" class="commentcontent"><p>@Cliff How does the review process work now, and how would it ideally work?</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7746" class="comment byuser comment-author-knutsp odd alt thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/419fe61d3c557bcf61322376177b4709?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/knutsp/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Knut Sparhell</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T20:27:15Z">8:27 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7746" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7746" class="commentcontent"><p>This ‘draft revision’ will be available for pages, too. I presume. For sites that need to update their more or less static content, this will provide a clean way to update, instead of creating a new page with a new permalink.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7748" class="comment byuser comment-author-danielbachhuber bypostauthor even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2cffb19eae4c61e51884d4648b2a3ed9?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://danielbachhuber.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Daniel Bachhuber</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T21:09:25Z">9:09 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7748" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7748" class="commentcontent"><p>Yep, all ‘public’ post types.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7747" class="comment byuser comment-author-hereswhatidid odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/160913a0c7f80a34538d003ca7a0daac?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://hereswhatidid.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">hereswhatidid</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T20:42:50Z">8:42 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7747" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7747" class="commentcontent"><p>2) Use Case</p> <ul> <li>I have had a few sites where the client needs updates for any content to be run through several groups of people before it can be safely deployed. Having a “Revised Draft” status that could be viewed by specific user groups when they’re logged in would be very helpful. Perhaps a status indicator in the ribbon bar would be a good way to show what version you’re currently looking at.</li> </ul> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7749" class="comment byuser comment-author-danielbachhuber bypostauthor even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2cffb19eae4c61e51884d4648b2a3ed9?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://danielbachhuber.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Daniel Bachhuber</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T21:29:21Z">9:29 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7749" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7749" class="commentcontent"><p>Just out of curiosity: how does each user sign off on the content?</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7750" class="comment byuser comment-author-hereswhatidid odd alt depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/160913a0c7f80a34538d003ca7a0daac?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://hereswhatidid.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">hereswhatidid</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T21:35:20Z">9:35 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7750" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7750" class="commentcontent"><p>Currently the review approval is handled via email and the changes are posted to staging environment for review. Once they are approved, the site admin goes in and publishes the update. But, just having the ability to show a preview version on the live site would cut out the need for the staging site entirely which would be a big improvement.</p> <p>I’m not sure having a system that would actually be able to deploy content only after specific users/groups have approved the content would be worthwhile to implement in the core. That would most likely still fall into the realm of a plugin. Just having the ability to save a Revised Draft which can be previewed would be something useful across the board.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7751" class="comment byuser comment-author-krogsgard even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6b89515a9781282ae3a66d4b6173523c?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://krogsgard.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">krogsgard</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T21:58:27Z">9:58 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7751" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7751" class="commentcontent"><p>Permissions for publish_revisions and edit_post/page_revisions vs publish_posts/pages and edit_posts/pages could take care of this. Let plugins / devs / members plugin take care of roles, other than defaults for editor / author, etc.</p> <p>Triggering an email for when a revision gets sent to a pending status to the published post author would be awesome too.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7759" class="comment byuser comment-author-kovshenin odd alt thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8585b20b69e8ff4b0ba737accfdbb31b?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/kovshenin/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Konstantin Kovshenin</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T07:38:04Z">7:38 am <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7759" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7759" class="commentcontent"><p>I worked with a few companies before where “bosses” were very sensitive about what information goes out there, so they had to sign off each piece. It was easy with posts and drafts, but published pages for sections like “our mission”, “about the company”, etc was a huge pain, because changes went in Microsoft Word first, signed off and then copy-pasted into WordPress.</p> <p>Also, contributors wanting to make changes to their published posts is another obvious one.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7760" class="comment byuser comment-author-s1m0nd even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8fac60cba14c4452a15d86a358b17eb7?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://puffbox.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Simon Dickson</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T10:42:13Z">10:42 am <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7760" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7760" class="commentcontent"><p>Use case for no2: we’ll still need to keep the option to edit the ‘live’ post, even if there is a revision in draft.</p> <p>You can imagine: you might be mid-way through a substantial edit of a published post, or maybe you’re awaiting approval from someone. You suddenly realise there’s a factual error in the already published version. You aren’t ready to publish the new version in its entirety, but you can’t leave the error on the live site.</p> <p>We’re almost talking about Git-style branching, in effect – a ‘master’ version (live), and a ‘development’ version (revision in draft). Maybe there’s a UI lesson there?</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7765" class="comment byuser comment-author-danielbachhuber bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2cffb19eae4c61e51884d4648b2a3ed9?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://danielbachhuber.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Daniel Bachhuber</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T13:15:59Z">1:15 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7765" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7765" class="commentcontent"><p>How would you implement the ability to edit two versions of the same post at the same time?</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7761" class="comment byuser comment-author-husobj even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/cf8c8b1f03f54c020831bf3dc11ef029?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/husobj/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Ben Huson</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T10:57:51Z">10:57 am <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7761" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7761" class="commentcontent"><p>“What use cases do you have for the second, user-facing feature?”</p> <p>Use cases I can think of or have experience of are:</p> <p>1. Updating page content to reflect a season change – ie new products etc<br/> 2. Updating pages to reflect a company change on a specific date – ie acquisition, annual report etc</p> <p>I’ve used some bespoke CMS systems where a draft is created whenever you edit a published page and then you choose to save (as a draft), publish or schedule.</p> <p>Would you be able to Schedule a draft revision as that would be very useful?</p> <p>I feel that a content approval workflow would be best handled by a plugin.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7766" class="comment byuser comment-author-danielbachhuber bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2cffb19eae4c61e51884d4648b2a3ed9?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://danielbachhuber.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Daniel Bachhuber</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T13:17:21Z">1:17 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7766" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7766" class="commentcontent"><p>Scheduling a draft revision might be a possibility, and a nice added touch. We’ll explore that when we get there.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7762" class="comment byuser comment-author-rmccue even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/c57c8945079831fa3c19caef02e44614?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/rmccue/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Ryan McCue</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T11:19:59Z">11:19 am <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7762" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7762" class="commentcontent"><p>One place where I’ve seen this sort of thing is with MediaWiki with extensions: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Approved_Revs" rel="nofollow">http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Approved_Revs</a> or <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs" rel="nofollow">http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs</a></p> <p>It looks those have an “approve” button next to revisions newer than the current published one, which I think could work. Perhaps if we add a new side metabox that lists revisions newer than the last published revision with approval and diff links.</p> <p>(Ideally, the way this would work is that posts would be mere pointers to a revision, and publishing would bump the post pointer to the latest revision. This is similar to git branches, where “master” e.g. is just a pointer to a specific commit, and committing to that branch makes a new commit and then bumps the branch. For WordPress, we could do similar but basically make the approve button sync the post to the revision.)</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7764" class="comment byuser comment-author-danielbachhuber bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2cffb19eae4c61e51884d4648b2a3ed9?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://danielbachhuber.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Daniel Bachhuber</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T13:14:50Z">1:14 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7764" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7764" class="commentcontent"><p>We discussed this some in IRC, and I’d be willing to have the conversation again, but I think the Git style approach is a little too complex and still plugin territory.</p> <p>In particular, it seems like most of the named use cases don’t require this degree of complexity.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7769" class="comment byuser comment-author-cvernon even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/c6d87b472b471d66cd4cb8302273df9b?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://stresslimitdesign.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">cvernon</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T15:43:44Z">3:43 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7769" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7769" class="commentcontent"><p>Use case for 2) involves what is currently [imho] a bug: when you edit images, featured or attachments, custom fields or any other changes that are made at the db level through ajax to the original post, they are reflected on the front end immediately, without even needing to hit Update.</p> <p>One thing we did in a custom CMS platform a few years ago to avoid this is that all editing is actually done to a copy of the post, and then when saving the copy is saved back to the original. I would strongly suggest we take advantage of this new feature to fix this current bug. Then, if you change images or custom fields, and then abandon the edit, we just throw away the duplicated ‘draft’ post + meta + attachments. This means a major rework because when deleting images from a post, the deleted images must be a copy so that they are not lost if we decide to stop editing or not go through with the changes.</p> <p>Hope this helps.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7771" class="comment byuser comment-author-sourceforge odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/3094298ee1d4ce597e3b5319436e3e99?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> sourceforge <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T16:21:08Z">4:21 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7771" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7771" class="commentcontent"><p>thank you @daniel and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/mentions/nacin/" class="mention">@nacin</a>, daniel @ vip and nacin @ wporg have been pulling things, thanks for the help!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7779" class="comment byuser comment-author-jeremyfelt even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d1759b1c669981b7c52ec9a97d19e6bd?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.jeremyfelt.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Jeremy Felt</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-26T03:21:42Z">3:21 am <em>on</em> January 26, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/24/editorial-flow-update-124/#comment-7779" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F24%2Feditorial-flow-update-124%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7779" class="commentcontent"><p>I haven’t seen this exactly expressed yet, so tossing it out there. More conceptual, but also related to dealing with the current status stuff in core.</p> <p>It seems that the current core post statuses (draft, pending, publish, future, private, trash) are pretty good indicators of a post’s current state in the system.</p> <p>Most (all?) of the use cases for custom post statuses appear to fit under the umbrella of one of these post states, though with nomenclature that describes different parts of a custom worlkflow. </p> <p>Would it be plausible to introduce the idea of attaching a post state to a post status when it is registered? This could allow current parts of core relying on these states to stay useful – though status/state naming is confusing – while also accounting for new workflows.</p> <p>It would also be nice to see the ability for multiple post statuses to be assigned at once, which a structure based around states should allow for.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="prologue-2813" class="post-2813 post type-post status-publish format-status hentry category-uncategorized"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/lessbloat/" title="Posts by lessbloat ( @lessbloat )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/lessbloat/" title="Posts by lessbloat ( @lessbloat )">lessbloat</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T19:12:23Z">7:12 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags">   </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2813" class="postcontent"> <p>For tomorrows “Menu” office hours I only have one agenda item: To figure out where we’re headed with menus in 3.6.</p> <p> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#more-2813" class="more-link">(More …)</a></p> </div> <div class="discussion" style="display: none"> <p> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2e25520901bb826e14cde98de6be38f5?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.iamronen.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">iamronen</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> lessbloat, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8fac9a834778de5a3b7b26fb28cff956?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/jkudish/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Joey Kudish</a>, and 7 others are discussing. <a href="#" class="show-comments">Toggle Comments</a> </p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2813" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> <li id="comment-7700" class="comment byuser comment-author-devinreams even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/0a5f2e03ceff5f8df445a4bc31cbd279?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/devinreams/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Devin Reams</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T19:37:06Z">7:37 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7700" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7700" class="commentcontent"><p>I like your concept.</p> <p>While it does require more screens to manage a menu (find the menu from the list, then click to edit it), I think simplifying and making the views granular is ideal:</p> <p>1. See all menus (then go edit them)<br/> 2. Edit a menu’s contents<br/> 3. Assign a menu to a theme location</p> <p>Some bloggers may only have one menu and this is overkill (just like those with one sidebar) but, many more complex sites may have dozens or a hundred menus, theme locations, etc. A question: what is harder and less flexible to satisfy all these possible use-cases?</p> <p>I also think a simpler, granular interface for each action may allow for better long-term goals: new enhancements, making it mobile/responsive friendly, etc.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7710" class="comment byuser comment-author-maor odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/dfcedfa253bbc53d62a701dbaa33907e?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://maorchasen.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Maor Chasen</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T20:58:44Z">8:58 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7710" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7710" class="commentcontent"><p>I just love the 2nd approach. Especially liking the theme customizer integration. Though, I have never seen an internal use of breadcrumbs within the dashboard. It just seems out of place.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7723" class="comment byuser comment-author-mssbee even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/f69c6f526454ad9a17f732abfdc3165a?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> mssbee <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T02:19:21Z">2:19 am <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7723" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7723" class="commentcontent"><p>I like the first time menu screen. I am not a huge fan of more windows to open to get to what I want. Seems this whole project started from the thought that current menu screen is too difficult and even adding a home link is a challenge. I agree with Devin that the average user would probably have only one menu, as this might be overkill. Simple to me is simple interface that is intuitive that doesn’t take multiple clicks to get to.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7731" class="comment byuser comment-author-cliffseal odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/a32b058efa650fa963e8f0b284c08e04?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cliffseal.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Cliff Seal</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T14:35:39Z">2:35 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7731" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7731" class="commentcontent"><p>I think the flow of #2 would be most scalable and easiest for first-time menu creators to do what they want—but, can we incorporate the accordion-looking ‘Add Items…’ menu from the Nacin concept? I think all the individual CPT boxes, expanded automatically, become hard to locate at a glance.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7733" class="comment byuser comment-author-iamronen even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2e25520901bb826e14cde98de6be38f5?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.iamronen.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">iamronen</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T15:29:11Z">3:29 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7733" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7733" class="commentcontent"><p>I think that all three designs fail to address a core issue in the menu-editing screen. The left side that contains all the visual containers with sources of items to populate the menus is unpleasant to use when there is lots to choose from (many pages, posts, categories … not to mention websites with custom post-types … which create even more boxes).</p> <p>I’ve tried in the past to describe the problem in more detail here: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.odharma.com/2010/07/review-of-wordpress-menus-user-interface/" rel="nofollow">http://www.odharma.com/2010/07/review-of-wordpress-menus-user-interface/</a></p> <p>The problem is (in my opinion) so severe that you would be hard-pressed to even draw a mockup that properly reflects the problem.</p> <p>This discussion started in a TRAC ticket where I mentioned a few more benefits from a modified design:<br/> 1. My main point is that the second largest (if not largest) UI real-estate area should go to the “things I can add to the menu”.<br/> 2. The tabbed area makes it possible to allocate more real-estate to each of the “types of things” that can be added to the menu. I see no need to have on screen at the same multiple sources. If I am looking for posts – then let me see just posts. When I want to select from pages or categories or anything else I don’t need to scroll down to look for them … and to lose sight (literally) of the menu I am working on.<br/> 3. Within the tabbed area there is then plenty of space that can be used for better search and filtering.<br/> 4. Because the spaces are tabbed it may be possible to do on demand loading of data (instead of loading everything, everytime the screen loads). That may drastically improve page performance …<br/> 5. AND you can use that improved performance to do a smarter load … like indicating somehow which items have already been added to the menu.<br/> 6. You can still add checkboxes for selecting multiple items and an “add to menu” button. However what I tried to suggest was one click add instead of two click add. Instead of clicking to select each menu and then having to move the moust somewhere else AND clicking one more time “add to menu” you simply add directly. It feels to me like a faster, smoother and more efficient experience (unless I am missing something).</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7768" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T14:22:24Z">2:22 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7768" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7768" class="commentcontent"><blockquote><p>I think that all three designs fail to address a core issue in the menu-editing screen. The left side that contains all the visual containers with sources of items to populate the menus is unpleasant to use when there is lots to choose from (many pages, posts, categories … not to mention websites with custom post-types … which create even more boxes).</p></blockquote> <p>I agree, in that it does suck to have to scroll down to get to additional menu item options. Let’s see if we can figure out a way to improve this.</p> <blockquote><p>The problem is (in my opinion) so severe that you would be hard-pressed to even draw a mockup that properly reflects the problem.</p></blockquote> <p>That indeed sounds like a severe problem. <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif" alt=";-)" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7740" class="comment byuser comment-author-miqrogroove even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/dd2a707274b17609b80205a5f236f7e3?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.miqrogroove.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Robert Chapin (miqrogroove)</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T16:53:40Z">4:53 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7740" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7740" class="commentcontent"><p>So far none of these address the issue of adding Tags and Posts to menus.</p> <p>As for the screen layouts, I think two are appropriate considering there isn’t easy tabbing between menus.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7741" class="comment byuser comment-author-nacin odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/01cfe9feaafb068590891bbd1f6a7f5a?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://nacin.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Andrew Nacin</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T17:02:20Z">5:02 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7741" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7741" class="commentcontent"><p>Look in screen options.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7767" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat bypostauthor even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T14:14:16Z">2:14 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7767" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7767" class="commentcontent"><p><strong>Office Hours Notes</strong></p> <ul> <li>See <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev&day=2013-01-24&sort=asc#m540143" rel="nofollow">logs</a> for full transcript.</li> <li>We talked through likes & concerns for both options 1 & 2 above.</li> <li>In the end we agreed to push forward with option 1.</li> </ul> <p><strong>Next Steps</strong></p> <ul> <li>I plan to spend today working through all of the option 1 concerns (that we covered in office hours), and I’ll come up with another proposal for a mockup to move forward with (which I’ll post to this thread for review).</li> <li>After that we’ll get a prototype hacked together, we’ll push a few cycles of user tests through it, and see how it performs.</li> </ul> <p>Ideas, mock ups, concerns, comments, criticisms are all welcome. <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":-)" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7777" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat bypostauthor odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-26T02:03:03Z">2:03 am <em>on</em> January 26, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7777" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7777" class="commentcontent"><p>Here are some updated mockups based on <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7767" rel="nofollow">our discussion Thursday</a>.</p> <p><strong>One Menu</strong></p> <p>This is all the vast majority of users would see:</p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://f.cl.ly/items/2n0B0q442N221W1P0W1Q/menus-nacins-concept.png" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://f.cl.ly/items/2n0B0q442N221W1P0W1Q/menus-nacins-concept.png" width="400"/></a></p> <p><strong>Multiple Menus</strong></p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://f.cl.ly/items/210D1u2F0n2b3X3z2Z3d/menus-nacins-multiple.png" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://f.cl.ly/items/210D1u2F0n2b3X3z2Z3d/menus-nacins-multiple.png" width="400"/></a></p> <p><strong>Custom Menu Widget</strong></p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://f.cl.ly/items/3E170x1V24341H0o2s0p/menus-nacins-widgets.png" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://f.cl.ly/items/3E170x1V24341H0o2s0p/menus-nacins-widgets.png" width="400"/></a></p> <p><strong>Switching Themes</strong></p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://f.cl.ly/items/0s0K3Z0B1V2l0Q2t3q3I/menus-nacins-switch.png" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://f.cl.ly/items/0s0K3Z0B1V2l0Q2t3q3I/menus-nacins-switch.png" width="400"/></a></p> <p><strong>Adding A New Menu</strong></p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://f.cl.ly/items/0h170z0E2u2U413Q451n/menus-nacins-add.png" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://f.cl.ly/items/0h170z0E2u2U413Q451n/menus-nacins-add.png" width="400"/></a></p> <p>Let me know what you think. I tried to cover all of the concerns mentioned in the meeting on Thursday.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7778" class="comment byuser comment-author-drewapicture even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/95c934fa2c3362794bf62ff8c59ada08?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.werdswords.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Drew Jaynes (DrewAPicture)</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-26T02:33:54Z">2:33 am <em>on</em> January 26, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7778" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7778" class="commentcontent"><p>These are great! Looking through these, I have a couple of concerns:</p> <ul> <li>“Copy items from existing menu” is interesting, but will we be able to maintain the hierarchy when the items are copied over?</li> <li>With “Switching Themes”, it isn’t immediately clear what the process is to “reassign” a menu to a theme location (the current workflow). After a moment, I realized you would “Copy items from existing menu” via “Other menus” but we should provide some kind of contextual help for that. Maybe in the empty menu space?</li> <li>We’ll need to be careful of not assuming too much about users, especially in terms of this “editing one menu at a time” mentality with the surrounding controls.</li> <li>Would “unattached” menus live under “Other Menus”, or is that strictly for theme switching?</li> </ul> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7780" class="comment byuser comment-author-iamronen odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2e25520901bb826e14cde98de6be38f5?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.iamronen.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">iamronen</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-26T06:28:48Z">6:28 am <em>on</em> January 26, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7780" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7780" class="commentcontent"><p>well done.</p> <p>I would consider better balance between the two halves of the screen. There seems to be a lot of potential dead space on the right (menu side) and a lot of crunched up stuff on the left (things to put in menu). I would try either 50-50 or even 60-40.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7781" class="comment byuser comment-author-jkudish even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8fac9a834778de5a3b7b26fb28cff956?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/jkudish/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Joey Kudish</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-26T08:01:27Z">8:01 am <em>on</em> January 26, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7781" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7781" class="commentcontent"><p>Nice work. I really like the updated direction! A few comments:</p> <ul> <li>I agree with Drew regarding switching themes, what happens then?</li> <li>What happens if your theme supports several menu locations, it’s not quite clear to me from the mockups how it is that you assign menus to theme locations anymore.</li> <li>Considering how little real estate the “add menu” button takes up and how valuable it might be to some users (especially those are now used to the current workflow) I am not convinced that hiding it by default is a great way to go about it. Could this be tested with existing users?</li> </ul> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7783" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-26T14:26:27Z">2:26 pm <em>on</em> January 26, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7783" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7783" class="commentcontent"><p>So, my worry after working through all of these mockups is that by trying to be overly simplistic, we’re actually increasing complexity. <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif" alt=":-(" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> <p>Have a peek through each of the mockups above, and I think you’ll see the same thing. </p> <p><strong>Things I like</strong></p> <ul> <li>I really like the use of vertical tabs instead of meta boxes.</li> <li>I like that for the majority of users they can jump right into building their menu, and that it is already assigned to a theme location.</li> </ul> <p><strong>My concerns</strong></p> <ul> <li>The “Select a Menu” portion on the left hand side seems out of place to me. It doesn’t fit with the other two accordion options (add items, copy items). If a user is required to select from multiple menus, I still feel fairly strongly that we need to separate the “manage” functionality from “add/edit” functionality, otherwise there is just too much to take in on that single screen.</li> <li>The concept of copying menu items from one menu to another works from a technical standpoint, but it seems overly complex.</li> <li>To think that someone who just switched their theme will know to copy their menu items in order to bring their menu items over from their other theme is asking too much. Even if we could provide contextual help, it seems way more confusing than the way it is now (choose a menu for each theme location and click save).</li> <li>I feel like this approach over complicates widget menu creation as well. The old way of adding a title, and selecting a menu seems like an easier flow to grok than forcing users to make a choice between creating a menu or selecting an existing one, and then switching contexts from widgets to menus and then back to widgets again in the same flow.</li> <li>The concept of having “Menus in your theme”, and “other menus” under “Select a menu”, complicates things. It’s hard to tell the difference between the two. The user will wonder why they cannot delete the “menus in your theme” menus, but they can delete the “other menus”.</li> <li>What happens if a user switches themes a dozen times (trying to find the right one). They’d come to menus and find at least a dozen menus from all the previous themes they tried (since the idea here is to pre-build all theme location menus for each theme). Not to mention, we’d have to write the code that pre-creates all theme location menus each time you switch a theme.</li> <li>While, hiding the “add menu” button seemingly simplifies things for new users, I don’t think it will work. Existing users will wonder where it went. If we leave it there, new users will no doubt get lost trying to add a new menu (either following one of hundreds of existing menus tutorials on the web, or by following instructions in a book, or by just stumbling onto it), when in fact their theme locations menus are already created.</li> <li>If we add icons for each menu item option (in the vertical tabs), what happens when you add a CPT? Would they have to add their own icon? That sounds too complex. I don’t think we can use icons here.</li> </ul> <p><strong>In contrast</strong></p> <p>Out of the last 3 users we tested on option 2 (see results <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/ui/2013/01/11/here-are-the-results-from-user-7-in/" rel="nofollow">here</a> and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/ui/2013/01/21/i-thought-id-run-one-more-user-through/" rel="nofollow">here</a>), one of them completed all of the tasks flawlessly, and the other two only stumbled on a single step (selecting a primary menu).</p> <p>After the meeting on Thursday, I was fairly confident that we could make option 1 work. After working though all of the edge cases, I’m now much less confident.</p> <p><strong>My proposal</strong></p> <p>What if instead of diving head first into option 1, we instead chose to keep iterating on option 2:</p> <ul> <li>We could spend our energy iterating on the one piece that still seems broken (selecting a theme location), instead of trying to smooth out all of the complexities that come with option 1.</li> <li>We could simplify things for users with just one menu. If they only have one menu, we could remove the tabs and the manage screen, and take them right to editing that one menu.</li> <li>We could bring the new vertical tab menu items selection concept over (I much prefer that to meta boxes, and having to scroll if you have lots of them).</li> </ul> <p>That’s my proposal, what do you think?</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7784" class="comment byuser comment-author-iamronen even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2e25520901bb826e14cde98de6be38f5?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.iamronen.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">iamronen</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-26T17:59:52Z">5:59 pm <em>on</em> January 26, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/for-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only/#comment-7784" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Ffor-tomorrows-menu-office-hours-i-only%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7784" class="commentcontent"><p>I think that a lot of the complexity you mentioned is rooted in what may be a false notion that menus are a part of the site “appearance” – that they belong to a theme.</p> <p>A different view would be that menus are another means of organizing “things” in my website (kind of like categories are used to organize posts).</p> <p>Though the primary purpose of menus is for navigating in the site (indeed a thing of appearance) that is not what governs their content. </p> <p>My intuition (I have no data to back this up) tells me that most people (who have one menu) when they change themes, do not change menus. I can definitely say that in almost all of the websites that I’ve created that have had many menus – that the menus should have stayed when themes switched (the fact that they don’t has forced me to do twisted things in my theme management practices). </p> <p>I believe that the fact that menus are a part of themes is a behavior that has evolved from their technical development, not from what they are and do. Their underlying story is just now surfacing.</p> <p>If you free menus to be another organizational entity regardless of appearance (though I realize this may be way beyond the scope of 3.6) then they most absolutely should be split into the common WordPress paradigm of managed list and single-item edit. </p> <p>I also believe that presented in this way, people will more quickly understand that they can create more menus (since they know this visual paradigm intimately from working with posts and pages). </p> <p>This way:</p> <ul> <li>menus will be more straightforward and intuitive.</li> <li>there won’t be a need for complex behaviors such as “copying menus” which will only create useless copies of the same thing.</li> <li>there won’t be a need for a unique and complicated interaction and relationship between menus and widgets (the current widget is fine and will be better understood once menus become more clear)</li> </ul> <p>The only apsect of menus that I can think of that should remain as part of the appearance/theme configuration would be theme locations.</p> <p>I realize this may sound radical … but I believe that the complexities you listed are telling us that the underlying story of menus has not been properly addressed and it needs to be re-examined if a good solution is to be found.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="prologue-2810" class="post-2810 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-uncategorized tag-3-6 tag-revisions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/westi/" title="Posts by Peter Westwood ( @westi )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/5b3b5ce04dd402124aba53142b3e47f6?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/westi/" title="Posts by Peter Westwood ( @westi )">Peter Westwood</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T09:42:37Z">9:42 am <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Frevisions-update-jan-22nd%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags"> <br/>Tags: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/3-6/" rel="tag">3.6 ( 21 )</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/revisions/" rel="tag">revisions ( 4 )</a>    </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2810" class="postcontent"> <h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/">Revisions Update, Jan 22nd </a></h2><p>This week the revisions team had our first in-person meeting and we started by setting out office hours for this cycle which are 4pm UTC on Mondays and Thursdays. We then went through and reviewed a large number of open trac tickets related to revisions to get a feel for the existing bugs and enhancement requests as well as to set down a line as to what we feel is and isn’t in scope.</p> <p>We ended our review with 8 “in-scope” existing tickets:</p> <p>Bugs:</p> <ul> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/16215">#16215</a> – Post Revision history displays the incorrect author</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/20982">#20982</a> – Attribution of changes via edit_last after restore</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/16847">#16847</a> – Capability check fails for custom post type revision edit (& map_meta_cap no good)</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/9843">#9843</a> – Duplicate autosave/revisions clutter the database</li> </ul> <p>Enhancements:</p> <ul> <li>#/22289 – Filter to override WP_POST_REVISIONS (or define it later)</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/19932">#19932</a> – More context when display revision info for plugins</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/18733">#18733</a> – Show revision number for post/pages in Revision list</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/7237">#7237</a> – Multiple clean_post_cache() calls when saving a post due to post revisions</li> </ul> <p>We explicitly left the following out of scope:</p> <ul> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/9681">#9681</a> – Add hooks to allow a plugin to support the deletion of unneeded revisions</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/20564">#20564</a> – Post Meta Revisions</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/20299">#20299</a> – Preview changes on a published post makes all post meta “live”</li> <li><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/11049">#11049</a> – Page Preview does not autosave page template</li> </ul> <p>After the trac ticket discussion we then talked about UI ideas and set ourselves some goals for this week:</p> <ul> <li>More UI mockups – to come in the comment thread here</li> <li>Start investigating and addressing some of the bugs</li> </ul> <p>Full logs of our IRC Chat <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev&day=2013-01-21&sort=asc#m536863">are here</a></p> </div> <div class="discussion" style="display: none"> <p> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4a31c00a18e6b155a4d27c487ef06ce1?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/sillybean/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Stephanie Leary</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/415ca13a64467c42afeade59eaeda463?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> Bryan Petty, and 2 others are discussing. <a href="#" class="show-comments">Toggle Comments</a> </p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2810" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> <li id="comment-7680" class="comment byuser comment-author-tentblogger even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2801f5145de98010dd72f1ac6d92938f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://john.do/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">John Saddington</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T12:19:29Z">12:19 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/#comment-7680" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Frevisions-update-jan-22nd%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7680" class="commentcontent"><p>I wonder how many people have had mega issues with post meta revisions and wanting that. Hmm.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7683" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T14:05:03Z">2:05 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/#comment-7683" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Frevisions-update-jan-22nd%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7683" class="commentcontent"><p>Plenty of people. Doesn’t make it in-scope, though.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7684" class="comment byuser comment-author-travisnorthcutt even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/69e090710d2a4303aeb8151a5c1f90d7?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/travisnorthcutt/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Travis Northcutt</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T14:24:40Z">2:24 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/#comment-7684" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Frevisions-update-jan-22nd%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7684" class="commentcontent"><p>Given that Alex King volunteered (albeit 9 months ago, so I don’t know if he has the time right now) to clean up what they built for inclusion in core, would it be feasible to get it in scope if the work is done by people other than Westi et al.? (Serious question – I’m not familiar with how much work a committer has to do once a good patch is presented for inclusion).</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7704" class="comment byuser comment-author-bpetty odd alt depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/415ca13a64467c42afeade59eaeda463?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> Bryan Petty <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T20:24:04Z">8:24 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/#comment-7704" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Frevisions-update-jan-22nd%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7704" class="commentcontent"><p>Maybe, but it wouldn’t hurt to start patch reviews, testing, discussion and revising on the ticket either way. If it’s ready in time and there’s someone with the time to commit it, great, but otherwise, there will be that much less work involved with getting it included in 3.7.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7711" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen even depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T21:09:52Z">9:09 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/#comment-7711" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Frevisions-update-jan-22nd%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7711" class="commentcontent"><p>Indeed, there is nothing wrong with working on it, anyway.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7770" class="comment byuser comment-author-sillybean odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4a31c00a18e6b155a4d27c487ef06ce1?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/sillybean/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Stephanie Leary</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T16:07:41Z">4:07 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/revisions-update-jan-22nd/#comment-7770" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Frevisions-update-jan-22nd%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7770" class="commentcontent"><p>For the diff UI: what if we had Visual and HTML options just like we do in the editor? The HTML view would show the markup, as we do now. The Visual would show only the content changes. Here’s <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://stephanieleary.com/downloads/trackchanges/" rel="nofollow">a very old example</a> using del and ins tags to emulate Word’s track changes feature (this was before Word switched to the bubble style it uses now).</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="prologue-2805" class="post-2805 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-uncategorized tag-3-6 tag-autosave-and-post-locking tag-team-update"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/dh-shredder/" title="Posts by Mike Schroder ( @dh-shredder )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/76424a001dc6b3ebb4faca0c567800c4?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/dh-shredder/" title="Posts by Mike Schroder ( @dh-shredder )">Mike Schroder</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T04:53:19Z">4:53 am <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags"> <br/>Tags: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/3-6/" rel="tag">3.6 ( 21 )</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/autosave-and-post-locking/" rel="tag">autosave and post locking ( 3 )</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/team-update/" rel="tag">team-update ( 28 )</a>    </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2805" class="postcontent"> <h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/">Autosave and Post Locking Update </a></h2><p>Today we had our <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev&day=2013-01-22&sort=asc#m538367">first scheduled meeting</a>.</p> <p>Consensus was, for a first pass:</p> <ul> <li>Display a simple lock/padlock icon next to locked posts within the post list screen, leaving the “Request Lock” button for the post edit screens.</li> <li>When a post is locked, hide the Quick Edit link, and disable batch edit for the post</li> <li>To unlock a post, the user will enter the post edit screen, then click a button to request a lock. This will trigger a request to appear for the user with the current lock, where they can decide whether or not to allow the new lock.</p> </li> </ul> <p>As far as development tasks go, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/mentions/azaozz/" class="mention">@azaozz</a> is planning on finishing a first run at the “Heartbeat” API to be committed before the end of the week. I’ll begin working on the list table changes for post listings. We’re currently looking for volunteers to aid, as there’s plenty of room for help! Additional tasks will include the UI for handling post lock requests and auto-save to local storage.</p> <p>We’ll certainly chat more about this tomorrow in dev chat, and are planning another meeting this Friday (2013–01–25), at 21:00 UTC (the same time as dev chat), unless this doesn’t work for many of you looking to help. Please post here, or come to the chats if you’re interested in helping with this project, and we’ll get in touch with you for further details!</p> </div> <div class="discussion" style="display: none"> <p> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4e84843ebff0918d72ade21c6ee7b1e4?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/azaozz/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Andrew Ozz</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/76424a001dc6b3ebb4faca0c567800c4?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/DH-Shredder/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Mike Schroder</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/31c9246c917b5a53e34ae693b37840ac?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/markjaquith/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Mark Jaquith</a>, and 2 others are discussing. <a href="#" class="show-comments">Toggle Comments</a> </p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2805" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> <li id="comment-7681" class="comment byuser comment-author-tentblogger even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2801f5145de98010dd72f1ac6d92938f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://john.do/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">John Saddington</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T12:20:20Z">12:20 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/#comment-7681" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7681" class="commentcontent"><p>fantastic. i’m on pins waiting for this implementation. can’t wait!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7687" class="comment byuser comment-author-mindctrl odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/312c5f5d2be71e9347abaf9e4a9058aa?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> mindctrl <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T15:25:30Z">3:25 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/#comment-7687" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7687" class="commentcontent"><p>The idea for implementing post locking is for a person to manually click a Request Lock button in the edit post screen? Would that show up on all installs or only installs that are multi-author? Why not automatically lock a post when editing it so the workflow is streamlined?</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7690" class="comment byuser comment-author-azaozz even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4e84843ebff0918d72ade21c6ee7b1e4?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/azaozz/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Andrew Ozz</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T16:32:49Z">4:32 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/#comment-7690" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7690" class="commentcontent"><p>Good questions. The Request/Take over a lock button will only show when the same post is being edited by another user. Under normal circumstances posts would never be locked on installs with only one user. However if the user opens the same post on two different devices (computers) or in two different browsers, the first instance should lock the second. That should also happen if several people use the same user account.</p> <p>We already monitor when a post is being edited and show a warning. The purpose of the enhancements is to actually prevent saving a post from two different places simultaneously.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7692" class="comment byuser comment-author-mindctrl odd alt depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/312c5f5d2be71e9347abaf9e4a9058aa?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> mindctrl <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T17:59:35Z">5:59 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/#comment-7692" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7692" class="commentcontent"><p>Thanks for the clarification. Sounds great.</p> <p>Will this be implemented in the mobile apps? I’m wondering what would happen if someone tried editing a locked post from a smartphone or tablet, and would those devices be able to lock and/or take over a locked post?</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7693" class="comment byuser comment-author-dh-shredder bypostauthor even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/76424a001dc6b3ebb4faca0c567800c4?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/DH-Shredder/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Mike Schroder</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T18:22:25Z">6:22 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/#comment-7693" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7693" class="commentcontent"><p>That’s the idea — you’d get the lock automatically if the post isn’t locked by anyone. Then, if it’s already locked, you have the option to request the lock from the author that holds it. The feature would still exist on single-author installs, but you wouldn’t notice it, because you’d be the only one able to hold locks.</p> <p>[edit] Previous comments weren’t showing when I typed this. <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/mentions/azaozz/" class="mention">@azaozz</a>‘s comments above explain further <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> [/edit]</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7709" class="comment byuser comment-author-markjaquith odd alt thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/31c9246c917b5a53e34ae693b37840ac?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/markjaquith/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Mark Jaquith</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T20:52:26Z">8:52 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/#comment-7709" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7709" class="commentcontent"><p>Unless I’m misunderstanding, this approach seems like it could result in posts becoming permanently locked.</p> <p>1. Open post for editing<br/> 2. Walk away<br/> 3. ???<br/> 4. Profit</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7714" class="comment byuser comment-author-dh-shredder bypostauthor even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/76424a001dc6b3ebb4faca0c567800c4?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/DH-Shredder/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Mike Schroder</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T21:18:54Z">9:18 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/#comment-7714" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7714" class="commentcontent"><p>To resolve this issue, we’ve talked about including a concept of activity via keystrokes and maybe mouse movement to maintain the lock assignment (otherwise, a user would lose the lock after X amount of inactivity).</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7772" class="comment byuser comment-author-azaozz odd alt depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4e84843ebff0918d72ade21c6ee7b1e4?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/azaozz/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Andrew Ozz</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T19:49:40Z">7:49 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/23/autosave-and-post-locking-update/#comment-7772" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F23%2Fautosave-and-post-locking-update%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7772" class="commentcontent"><p>We can also monitor user activity comparing autosaves to the server. If there are no changes for x minutes, user is inactive. Maybe we can set another flag for “user-active” in the post lock and toggle it based on autosaves.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="prologue-2799" class="post-2799 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-uncategorized tag-3-6 tag-commit"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/nacin/" title="Posts by Andrew Nacin ( @nacin )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/01cfe9feaafb068590891bbd1f6a7f5a?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/nacin/" title="Posts by Andrew Nacin ( @nacin )">Andrew Nacin</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T15:26:55Z">3:26 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags"> <br/>Tags: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/3-6/" rel="tag">3.6 ( 21 )</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/tag/commit/" rel="tag">commit ( 5 )</a>    </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2799" class="postcontent"> <h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/">Bug Gardening with Sergey Biryukov (new TV show?) </a></h2><p>I’m pleased to announce that <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/sergeybiryukov">Sergey Biryukov</a> has been given guest commit access for the 3.6 cycle.</p> <p><img class="alignright" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/750b7b0fcd855389264c2b1294d61bd6?size=100" width="100" height="100"/></p> <p>Ryan, Mark, Aaron and I have asked Sergey (twitter: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://twitter.com/flash_usb">@flash_usb</a>) to run bug gardening efforts for 3.6. He’ll be working on both old and new tickets, clearing patches and fixing bugs.</p> <p>If bug fixes are your thing, or you come across one of those simple random patches that belong in core, Sergey is your man.</p> <p>Some three years ago, Ryan sent me a note and asked if I wanted commit, half-joking that he was tired of shoveling my patches into core every day of the week.</p> <p>Allow me to pass the baton. Sergey’s Trac activity can best be described as omnipresent. He has had many hundreds of contributions, large and small, accepted to WordPress core. His contributions are always thoroughly researched, with links to related tickets and changesets often going back to a previous decade. He writes good code, accepts feedback in earnest, and willingly provides rounds of advice and insight to contributors old and new. He has earned the respect of many and we’re really happy to have him leading the maintenance crew.</p> <p>With Sergey on bug patrol, you’ll find Ryan and I running the architectural projects this cycle, like <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/15/wordpress-3-6-code-maintenance-and-architecture/">slashing, caching, and databasing</a>. Something for everyone!</p> </div> <div class="discussion" style="display: none"> <p> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/ddc339d9565077190a08a9e5da7a5f44?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://simpledream.net/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Lance Willett</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/08001a0a424aed1382375a446ed690d6?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://earthbound.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">adamsilverstein</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/94342688a50851cbd0e95f91986e973e?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://swarm.cs.pub.ro/~cdogaru/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Cătălin Dogaru</a>, and 16 others are discussing. <a href="#" class="show-comments">Toggle Comments</a> </p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2799" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> <li id="comment-7652" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T20:29:31Z">8:29 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7652" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7652" class="commentcontent"><p>Awwww yeaaahhh. <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> Congrats, Sergey!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7654" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T20:30:56Z">8:30 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7654" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7654" class="commentcontent"><p>Awesome news. Way to go Sergey!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7655" class="comment byuser comment-author-travisnorthcutt even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/69e090710d2a4303aeb8151a5c1f90d7?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/travisnorthcutt/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Travis Northcutt</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T20:32:37Z">8:32 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7655" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7655" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats, Sergey! Thanks for your efforts!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7656" class="comment byuser comment-author-drewapicture odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/95c934fa2c3362794bf62ff8c59ada08?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.werdswords.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Drew Jaynes (DrewAPicture)</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T20:32:46Z">8:32 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7656" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7656" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats Sergey! Well-deserved.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7657" class="comment byuser comment-author-jkudish even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8fac9a834778de5a3b7b26fb28cff956?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/jkudish/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Joey Kudish</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T20:32:47Z">8:32 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7657" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7657" class="commentcontent"><p>Absolutely deserved and long time coming. ‘Grats Sergey!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7658" class="comment byuser comment-author-sabreuse odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/0b59d8f1c9c189ad2f3b3e25746aee1a?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://amyhendrix.net/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Amy Hendrix (sabreuse)</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T20:42:17Z">8:42 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7658" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7658" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats, Sergey!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7659" class="comment byuser comment-author-dh-shredder even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/76424a001dc6b3ebb4faca0c567800c4?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/DH-Shredder/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Mike Schroder</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T20:45:51Z">8:45 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7659" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7659" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats! Well deserved, indeed!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7660" class="comment byuser comment-author-maor odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/dfcedfa253bbc53d62a701dbaa33907e?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://maorchasen.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Maor Chasen</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T21:04:07Z">9:04 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7660" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7660" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats, Sergey! These are some good news.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7661" class="comment byuser comment-author-yoavf even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/ae98ec38ec28f129a33a424e5eba5769?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/yoavf/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Yoav Farhi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T21:07:58Z">9:07 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7661" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7661" class="commentcontent"><p>Great news, congrats!</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7662" class="comment byuser comment-author-mattwiebe odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/3f7cda86b0d471afad79a0b5423d1677?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/mattwiebe/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Matt Wiebe</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T21:17:32Z">9:17 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7662" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7662" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats, Sergey. <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7663" class="comment byuser comment-author-c3mdigital even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/c1883fc0f64da3a54e7eaa7e9ab0d725?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://c3mdigital.com/wordpress" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Chris Olbekson</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T21:49:30Z">9:49 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7663" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7663" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats, Sergey! Your bug gardening efforts have been a great improvement to the entire trac workflow.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7664" class="comment byuser comment-author-scribu odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/d22c48810052c48be3559293fa07f85f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://scribu.net/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">scribu</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T21:57:04Z">9:57 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7664" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7664" class="commentcontent"><p>We might actually see those thousands of lingering tickets closed now. No pressure. <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7666" class="comment byuser comment-author-jorbin even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/b3e2b94eb305bf95a1bee11bc7705fb7?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/jorbin/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Aaron Jorbin</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T23:06:03Z">11:06 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7666" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7666" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats!</p> <p>If Nacin is handing over the baton like this, I can only imagine that #blamesergey will be starting soon.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7670" class="comment byuser comment-author-akted odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/505991c8f165e625d571e8f5ea1170ea?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://akted.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">AK Ted</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T00:38:47Z">12:38 am <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7670" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7670" class="commentcontent"><p>Well deserved. “Omnipresent” is almost an understatement, if that’s possible <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7675" class="comment byuser comment-author-kovshenin even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8585b20b69e8ff4b0ba737accfdbb31b?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/kovshenin/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Konstantin Kovshenin</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T06:40:54Z">6:40 am <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7675" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7675" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats Sergey and best of luck! <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7677" class="comment byuser comment-author-westi odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/5b3b5ce04dd402124aba53142b3e47f6?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/westi/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Peter Westwood</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T09:44:50Z">9:44 am <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7677" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7677" class="commentcontent"><p>Congrats Sergey,</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7678" class="comment byuser comment-author-cdog even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/94342688a50851cbd0e95f91986e973e?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://swarm.cs.pub.ro/~cdogaru/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Cătălin Dogaru</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T11:15:27Z">11:15 am <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7678" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7678" class="commentcontent"><p>Awesome. Congrats, Sergey! <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7691" class="comment byuser comment-author-adamsilverstein odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/08001a0a424aed1382375a446ed690d6?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://earthbound.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">adamsilverstein</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T17:35:28Z">5:35 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7691" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7691" class="commentcontent"><p>Great news… Do we have a repository for bug gardening requests?</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7703" class="comment byuser comment-author-lancewillett even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/ddc339d9565077190a08a9e5da7a5f44?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://simpledream.net/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Lance Willett</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T19:45:20Z">7:45 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/bug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show/#comment-7703" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fbug-gardening-with-sergey-biryukov-new-tv-show%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7703" class="commentcontent"><p>Congratulations, Sergey!</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="prologue-2797" class="post-2797 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-uncategorized"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/helen/" title="Posts by Helen Hou-Sandi ( @helen )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/helen/" title="Posts by Helen Hou-Sandi ( @helen )">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T04:26:00Z">4:26 am <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags">   </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2797" class="postcontent"> <h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/">Post Formats UI Update, 1/21 </a></h2><p>Still looking for wireframes/storyboards for possible UI ideas for each post format. To put it succinctly, we are looking to address discoverability, value, and usability, approximately in that order. We will at some point need to talk about how users get there in the first place, but again, for now let’s focus on the add/edit post screen. We briefly touched on what would happen to the UI if the theme doesn’t support the post format – there seems to be early consensus that the UI itself stay altered (e.g. if there were a separate input for a link URL) but there would be a warning of some sort about the lack of theme support.</p> <p>A large portion of our office hour today was spent discussing a script for user testing that we can use throughout this process to help us evaluate the changes proposed. We need to use a theme that includes all ten formats, doesn’t do anything to the admin UI, and preferably does something to the front end display for each. One that I know of is <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://wordpress.org/extend/themes/san-kloud">San Kloud</a>, although it has some deprecated function usage (hey @kovshenin – want to fix that? <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> ); other suggestions welcome.</p> <p>Since the first part of the issue here is discoverability, the script needs to not hand-hold the format selection or entry process. Here’s a rough outline of what it might look like – discuss any changes in the comments, and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/mentions/lessbloat/" class="mention">@lessbloat</a> will help us get testing. Some of these are particularly difficult to describe in a non-leading manner. Through each of these, it would be good to have the user narrate what they want or expect will happen for each of these formats. A little fuzzy since we’re not going to point them at the format picker and a given tester may not be used to blogging, but the more narration of thinking/expectations, the better.</p> <ul> <li>Standard/text: Add a blog post entitled X, with the following text. Publish and view the post.</li> <li>Aside: Add a brief blog post without a title, or what might be referred to as an “aside”. Publish and view.</li> <li>Status: Add a blog post that represents your current status as (provide text), the way you might on a site like Facebook or Twitter. Publish and view.</li> <li>Chat: Add a chat blog post where the content is a chat transcript (provide something to copy-paste). Publish and view.</li> <li>Quote: Add a quote blog post with X quote attributed to Y. Publish and view.</li> <li>Link: Add a link blog post with X text linking to [URL]. Publish and view.</li> <li>Image: Add an image blog post and insert X image into the content editor. Publish and view.</li> <li>Gallery: Add an image gallery blog post with X images <strong>(this probably needs step-by-step instructions for creating a gallery)</strong>. Publish and view.</li> <li>Video: Add a video blog post with [something from YouTube]. Paste the URL on its own line without linking it. Publish and view.</li> <li>Audio: Add an audio blog post with [something from SoundCloud]. Paste the URL on its own line without linking it. Publish and view.</li> <li>View your site. (If they chose formats, it should show the differences pretty clearly in a post archive view, hence the importance of choosing an appropriate theme.)</li> </ul> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://irclogs.wordpress.org/chanlog.php?channel=wordpress-dev&day=2013-01-21&sort=asc#m537238">Full IRC chat log</a></p> </div> <div class="discussion" style="display: none"> <p> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/5c59d04ceb10b7ce586524221d010b76?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://justintadlock.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Justin Tadlock</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/bb29d699b5cba218c313b61aa82249da?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://apeatling.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Andy Peatling</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/112ca15732a80bb928c52caec9d2c8dd?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/wonderboymusic/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Scott Taylor</a>, and 10 others are discussing. <a href="#" class="show-comments">Toggle Comments</a> </p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2797" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> <li id="comment-7642" class="comment byuser comment-author-kovshenin even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/8585b20b69e8ff4b0ba737accfdbb31b?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/kovshenin/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Konstantin Kovshenin</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T05:54:57Z">5:54 am <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7642" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7642" class="commentcontent"><blockquote><p>Hey @kovshenin – want to fix that?</p></blockquote> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://themes.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/10824" rel="nofollow">Sure!</a></p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7647" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T14:36:11Z">2:36 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7647" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7647" class="commentcontent"><p>You are wonderful.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7645" class="comment byuser comment-author-f-j-kaiser even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/b633452832ed5613b18a4432b0149ae9?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> F J Kaiser <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T07:35:00Z">7:35 am <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7645" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7645" class="commentcontent"><blockquote><p>Status: Add a blog post that represents your current status as (provide text), the way you might on a site like Facebook or Twitter.</p></blockquote> <p>The most difficult/unclear are imho <em>Aside</em> and <em>Status</em>. In my imagination, the difference between them would be two things: The profile image of the author and “time since published” as post date. Just my 2cents</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7648" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T14:48:00Z">2:48 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7648" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7648" class="commentcontent"><p>I think many of us would agree about “Aside” and “Status” being less clear-cut. I think in the end it’s still up to the theme as to how it’s displayed on the front, and I imagine that in terms of the admin they’ll probably have the same UI because there isn’t anything really different about what type of data they need/represent. However, for user testing, we need to represent some sort of difference and see if they spring for choosing a post format.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7650" class="comment byuser comment-author-ipears even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/1c74db81df393b36d01ce99268ebcbc0?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://janvaniperen.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">ipears</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T16:56:04Z">4:56 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7650" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7650" class="commentcontent"><p>In an early version of @kovshenin’s Publish theme (on github), the status used to be a status on another platform… showing a tweet for instance. This is something that still is interesting from a point of view in which referencing and/or cross-posting weighs in.</p> <p>Perhaps status should be linked to a (geo-)location or mood, whereas an aside gives more flexibility on the contents, just with less emphasis as full-blown article.</p> <p>(side-note: for all afore-mentioned post-types, it would come in handy when the Press-This bookmarklet would be more content aware and sensitive, saving much time editing.)</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7651" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat odd alt thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T18:49:27Z">6:49 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7651" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7651" class="commentcontent"><p>Well… here’s one (fairly obvious) option:</p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://f.cl.ly/items/1t09071U2v1E2x2s3X2i/post-formats.png" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://f.cl.ly/items/1t09071U2v1E2x2s3X2i/post-formats.png" width="500"/></a></p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7667" class="comment byuser comment-author-saracannon even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/32b34f5d4fdde3f24996bc8c5ec38f10?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/saracannon/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">sara cannon</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T23:36:42Z">11:36 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7667" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7667" class="commentcontent"><p>I know this is a bit out of the box, but I the the post format option should be chosen before going to the post screen. tabs and icons in the post screen will make a user think that they can toggle between the types easily and possibly even include multiple types in one post. why not choose before you even get here?</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7701" class="comment byuser comment-author-beaulebens odd alt depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/205e460b479e2e5b48aec07710c08d50?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://dentedreality.com.au/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Beau Lebens</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T19:40:49Z">7:40 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7701" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7701" class="commentcontent"><p>For format-heavy sites, I agree that this workflow makes sense. Unfortunately for folks who’s site doesn’t make use of them (even if registered by the theme), this introduces a pretty horrible, extra barrier to publishing.</p> <p>I like the idea of an additional drop-down from the Posts > Add New menu, that’s a nice shortcut (although it’s a model not used anywhere else in the menu).</p> <p>I think whatever we need to do, needs to handle/prevent users from trying to switch between formats (once they’ve entered something in one specific format). I guess we could have an “Are you sure?”, like when you leave the post editor with unsaved content.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7713" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor even depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T21:17:06Z">9:17 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7713" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7713" class="commentcontent"><p>Why do they need to be prevented from switching formats?</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7727" class="comment byuser comment-author-saracannon odd alt depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/32b34f5d4fdde3f24996bc8c5ec38f10?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/saracannon/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">sara cannon</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T05:05:25Z">5:05 am <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7727" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7727" class="commentcontent"><p>@beaulebens I can see how this can be a huge hurdle to people who dont want formats. I guess the question is: do we want to commit to this concept in a big way or have it be a subtle option? I feel that committing to formats and optimizing the workflow in that area is a good idea.</p> <p>If we do use a more aggressive workflow like above, we should have an option for a user who dose not want formats (even though their theme enables them, and no matter if you switch themes) to turn them off in core. </p> <p>If we’re not completely all-in with this concept, then I understand why we would want it to be more subtle, non-intrusive of a workflow. (“dont make me choose what format before I post, I just want to post” kind of thing)</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7754" class="comment byuser comment-author-apeatling even depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/bb29d699b5cba218c313b61aa82249da?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://apeatling.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Andy Peatling</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T23:46:04Z">11:46 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7754" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7754" class="commentcontent"><p>I agree with Beau about handing format switching.</p> <p>Originally on WordPress.com it was simple to switch between post formats while writing a post. The issue we found with this is that users would get confused between uploading a photo and the actual photo post format. They’d go to upload a photo to their standard post, switch formats to the photo format, upload, and then publish. They’d then lose the post content they had written on the previously selected format.</p> <p>We fixed this issue by first asking them to select a post format, but that’s tougher to change in core for reasons you’ve mentioned, it puts a decision in the way of posting that didn’t exist before.</p> <p>We also now tell them that they will lose their existing post content if they decide to select a different post format (if it hasn’t been saved as a draft). This helped a whole bunch, it dropped the number of tickets for this issue to near zero.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7712" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor odd alt depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T21:16:49Z">9:16 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7712" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7712" class="commentcontent"><p>That is definitely a part of what we need to consider outside of the context of the add/edit screen. @beaulebens is also correct – we must not block the way current workflows are for just plain posting without formats, only provide a different point of entry that includes pre-selecting a format.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7732" class="comment byuser comment-author-ipears even depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/1c74db81df393b36d01ce99268ebcbc0?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://janvaniperen.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">ipears</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T14:43:07Z">2:43 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7732" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7732" class="commentcontent"><p>Without wanting to refer too much to tumblr, the “Press This” bookmarklet could be of importance for this: content awareness could suggest or decide the format.</p> <p>That same content awareness could transmogrify (yes, I like C&H) your post(-format) while editing, as you add certain media/content.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7734" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor odd alt depth-5"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T15:33:18Z">3:33 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7734" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7734" class="commentcontent"><p>There’s a slightly-separate initiative to improve Press This as a whole, and we will definitely at least keep parity with whatever we do to post formats in the regular admin.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7668" class="comment byuser comment-author-saracannon even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/32b34f5d4fdde3f24996bc8c5ec38f10?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/saracannon/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">sara cannon</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T23:55:41Z">11:55 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7668" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7668" class="commentcontent"><p>I like icons but here is words for concept:</p> <p>list posts: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://s.sar.ac/image/0a203Q3E391e" rel="nofollow">http://s.sar.ac/image/0a203Q3E391e</a><br/> post edit customized to format: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://s.sar.ac/image/3n1i1I1O3n2V" rel="nofollow">http://s.sar.ac/image/3n1i1I1O3n2V</a><br/> menu: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://s.sar.ac/image/052U1C0y1R0s" rel="nofollow">http://s.sar.ac/image/052U1C0y1R0s</a></p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7715" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor odd alt depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T21:22:10Z">9:22 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7715" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7715" class="commentcontent"><p>For the list table, we’ve got<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/16047"> #16047</a> for adding a column for the format, and<a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/15323"> #15323</a> for a filter, which should probably be a dropdown like the others, not extra tabs.</p> <p>For post editing, I don’t think we should be changing the title like that. It then gets completely mixed up with a custom post type, and isn’t necessarily accurate, either. It’s “just” opting in to a theme-driven special format for a regular old blog post.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7726" class="comment byuser comment-author-saracannon even depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/32b34f5d4fdde3f24996bc8c5ec38f10?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/saracannon/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">sara cannon</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T04:54:21Z">4:54 am <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7726" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7726" class="commentcontent"><p>I feel the changing the titles make sense. I like how Mel Choice executed it below</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7735" class="comment byuser comment-author-slobodanmanic odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/436de2182b7b47d9cbbe132a6ef8f705?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://thematosoup.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Slobodan Manic</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T15:40:31Z">3:40 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7735" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7735" class="commentcontent"><p>Another obvious option, similar to this one would be to have a dropdown where “Add New post” is now:</p> <p><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://cl.ly/image/0d3d2B1P2k2b/select-post-format.png"/></p> <p>A pointer could be used to make sure users don’t miss it.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7736" class="comment byuser comment-author-slobodanmanic even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/436de2182b7b47d9cbbe132a6ef8f705?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://thematosoup.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Slobodan Manic</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T15:43:14Z">3:43 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7736" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7736" class="commentcontent"><p>Of course, options would say “Add New Quote”, “Add New Aside” etc.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7653" class="comment byuser comment-author-cais odd alt thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/f9bb98e439bf7efdf51993e1e70957ae?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/cais/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Edward Caissie</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T20:30:48Z">8:30 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7653" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7653" class="commentcontent"><p>I’m still not clear on this … is the intent to dictate what each and every Post-Format will be used for and look like? IF that is the case, then why not simply make them all part of core rather than at the Theme Author / End-User’s discretion on how they will be used and / or implemented.</p> <p>Don’t get me wrong, a better UX would be more than welcomed but deciding on that interface under the assumption a specific Post Format will *only* be used in a specific fashion is not a good place to start from when whether or not the Post-Format is available is left to the Theme Author’s discretion.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7720" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T00:45:48Z">12:45 am <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7720" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7720" class="commentcontent"><p>Post formats are meant to be standardized and portable across themes, hence the lock on which ones are available. As <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/mentions/nacin/" class="mention">@nacin</a> put so well in <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://nacin.com/2011/01/27/on-standardized-post-formats/" rel="nofollow">his post</a>:</p> <blockquote><p>The idea behind the feature is this standardization and portability for a segment of bloggers. Many designers of themes used for microblogging wanted this ability to offer structured, well-defined content, beyond what could be done with categories and tags.</p></blockquote> <p>However, without anything actually standardized or structured in the admin, it’s ended up being completely up to the theme to determine both display AND data. Of course a theme will still be in control of the display, but given that formats are about standardization and portability, the feature itself is half-baked until we actually do something to the admin and corresponding data structure. As far as what’s available, I actually am not a huge fan of the whole opting in to a subset thing, but rest assured that a theme will continue to function like it does now if it doesn’t support a post format. After all, as it stands, a user could have created a post with a post format before switching to one that doesn’t support it, and nothing breaks.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7665" class="comment byuser comment-author-greenshady odd alt thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/5c59d04ceb10b7ce586524221d010b76?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://justintadlock.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Justin Tadlock</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T22:13:56Z">10:13 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7665" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7665" class="commentcontent"><p>I know it’s been mentioned before, but I have a PHP script for handling post formats on the front end:<br/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://github.com/justintadlock/hybrid-core/blob/master/extensions/post-format-tools.php" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/justintadlock/hybrid-core/blob/master/extensions/post-format-tools.php</a></p> <p>If you need to see it in use in an actual theme, here’s one I’m working on:<br/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/https://github.com/justintadlock/chun/tree/0.1" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/justintadlock/chun/tree/0.1</a></p> <p>All of this is based off how my users at Theme Hybrid are using post formats. Most of it was developed over the course of the last year based on feedback and seeing how individual components worked in various projects.</p> <p>The biggest thing I’d welcome as a theme developer is some metadata saved for embeds in audio and video posts. I can pull embeds from posts with a regex (what I’m doing now), but there should be an easier method.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7716" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T21:30:37Z">9:30 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7716" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7716" class="commentcontent"><p>Yep, your post format tools is on the list of examples for regex pulling of data. Thanks for the reminder <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> What you’re saying about metadata is exactly why we’re working on this, although from the workflow/UI end first to really make it useful and valuable for users, which in turn will make it useful for theme authors.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7773" class="comment byuser comment-author-greenshady odd alt depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/5c59d04ceb10b7ce586524221d010b76?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://justintadlock.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Justin Tadlock</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-25T22:05:22Z">10:05 pm <em>on</em> January 25, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7773" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7773" class="commentcontent"><p>Thanks for getting back to me on that. I just wanted y’all to be aware of how several theme companies are using post formats at the moment (it’s baked into my dev framework).</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7674" class="comment byuser comment-author-melchoyce even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/2dc245d4cf9e5579dfb0e13e7dcb75db?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://choycedesign.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Mel Choyce</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T03:42:08Z">3:42 am <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7674" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7674" class="commentcontent"><p>I actually agree with sara cannon and think users should chose a post format before being able to enter any content. I’ve thrown together some wireframes to show how that would work. I’ve leaned heavily on wp.com’s post format UI, but have organized formats by text vs. media:</p> <p>Add New Post: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/0N04382M2L1u" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/0N04382M2L1u</a></p> <p>**Text**<br/> Status: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/170O1N0L062U" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/170O1N0L062U</a><br/> Quote: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/1V0h3O211K2T" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/1V0h3O211K2T</a><br/> Chat: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/2T1X2I0f2R0z" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/2T1X2I0f2R0z</a><br/> Aside: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/3v3T3b3L2s1o" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/3v3T3b3L2s1o</a><br/> Link: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/2l213j3i2625" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/2l213j3i2625</a></p> <p>**Media**<br/> Image: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/2X0S2u2f053c" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/2X0S2u2f053c</a><br/> Gallery: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/032J3l2w1t10" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/032J3l2w1t10</a><br/> Video: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/3J2v2v0j0o37" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/3J2v2v0j0o37</a><br/> Audio: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/image/2y2x382v362Z" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/image/2y2x382v362Z</a></p> <p>All wireframes in pdf: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://cl.ly/3G2k2R01010q" rel="nofollow">http://cl.ly/3G2k2R01010q</a></p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7721" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T00:50:33Z">12:50 am <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7721" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7721" class="commentcontent"><p>I like this direction – will make a point to discuss these in tomorrow’s office hours. The one thing I want to avoid is blocking access to posting a regular post without specifically selecting the standard format. Would rather keep a switcher on this screen, and have a one-click point of entry elsewhere (e.g. Dashboard).</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7725" class="comment byuser comment-author-saracannon even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/32b34f5d4fdde3f24996bc8c5ec38f10?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/saracannon/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">sara cannon</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T04:51:50Z">4:51 am <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7725" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7725" class="commentcontent"><p>I kind of think “choose your format initially” will ease content switching confusion. because, If someone switches from audio to gallery after uploading their audio, wouldn’t their audio get dropped? I can see the case for not getting locked in.. but it seems like these formats are really specific that they are a very intentional choice. People who post to tumblr do this constantly.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7730" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor odd alt depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T13:49:22Z">1:49 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7730" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7730" class="commentcontent"><p>I agree that it would be good to have “choose your format” initially BUT I don’t think it should block the current way of directly going into creating a post, so in my eyes it should be a different point of entry, not an extra step on the add new screen.</p> <p>I don’t really know it means by “their audio would get dropped” – an upload would stay uploaded.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7737" class="comment byuser comment-author-slobodanmanic even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/436de2182b7b47d9cbbe132a6ef8f705?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://thematosoup.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Slobodan Manic</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T15:51:23Z">3:51 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7737" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7737" class="commentcontent"><p>Also in the admin bar, New > Post > {List of supported formats} could be helpful.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7724" class="comment byuser comment-author-saracannon odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/32b34f5d4fdde3f24996bc8c5ec38f10?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/saracannon/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">sara cannon</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T04:40:11Z">4:40 am <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7724" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7724" class="commentcontent"><p>agree! very tumblr esque <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley"/> </p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7689" class="comment byuser comment-author-wonderboymusic even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/112ca15732a80bb928c52caec9d2c8dd?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/wonderboymusic/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Scott Taylor</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T16:09:13Z">4:09 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7689" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7689" class="commentcontent"><p>I am starting to think that encouraging Audio and Video posting without a native way to play it is going to be super lame. *Yes I realize scope etc etc* But for instance: “Hey I’m posting Audio!” but what you’re really posting is a YouTube?</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7702" class="comment byuser comment-author-beaulebens odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/205e460b479e2e5b48aec07710c08d50?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://dentedreality.com.au/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Beau Lebens</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T19:41:09Z">7:41 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7702" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7702" class="commentcontent"><p>Time for a native HTML5 player for audio/video formats maybe?</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7705" class="comment byuser comment-author-wonderboymusic even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/112ca15732a80bb928c52caec9d2c8dd?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/wonderboymusic/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Scott Taylor</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T20:35:09Z">8:35 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7705" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7705" class="commentcontent"><p>that’d do it – I am going to throw MediaElement out there as a path forward, whenever it’s in scope. Our WP.com can toss down their code into the .org wilderness.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7706" class="comment byuser comment-author-wonderboymusic odd alt depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/112ca15732a80bb928c52caec9d2c8dd?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/wonderboymusic/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Scott Taylor</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T20:35:41Z">8:35 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7706" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7706" class="commentcontent"><p>or*</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7707" class="comment byuser comment-author-wonderboymusic even depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/112ca15732a80bb928c52caec9d2c8dd?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/wonderboymusic/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Scott Taylor</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T20:36:30Z">8:36 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7707" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7707" class="commentcontent"><p>this one: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://mediaelementjs.com/" rel="nofollow">http://mediaelementjs.com/</a> – skinnable, extensible, whatnot</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7708" class="comment byuser comment-author-wonderboymusic odd alt depth-4"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/112ca15732a80bb928c52caec9d2c8dd?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/wonderboymusic/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Scott Taylor</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T20:36:58Z">8:36 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7708" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7708" class="commentcontent"><p>or this: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://jplayer.org/" rel="nofollow">http://jplayer.org/</a></p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7717" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor even depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T22:03:48Z">10:03 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7717" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7717" class="commentcontent"><p>You’re my point man now. Bring it.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7738" class="comment byuser comment-author-wonderboymusic odd alt depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/112ca15732a80bb928c52caec9d2c8dd?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/wonderboymusic/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Scott Taylor</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T16:28:18Z">4:28 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7738" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7738" class="commentcontent"><p>Brought <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23282" rel="nofollow">http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23282</a></p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7722" class="comment byuser comment-author-helen bypostauthor even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/6506162ada6b700b151ad8a187f65842?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://helen.wordpress.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Helen Hou-Sandi</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T01:06:43Z">1:06 am <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/22/post-formats-ui-update-121/#comment-7722" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F22%2Fpost-formats-ui-update-121%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7722" class="commentcontent"><p>Idea: for gallery format, we could have the modal view go straight into creating a gallery. Selecting a bunch of images should create the gallery and close the modal rather than having a second “insert” step. Going back into the modal should go into adding images to the gallery. The preview of all images in that gallery would appear on the edit screen.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="prologue-2795" class="post-2795 post type-post status-publish format-standard hentry category-uncategorized"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/lessbloat/" title="Posts by lessbloat ( @lessbloat )" class="post-avatar"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=48&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D48&r=G" class="avatar avatar-48 photo" height="48" width="48"/> </a> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/author/lessbloat/" title="Posts by lessbloat ( @lessbloat )">lessbloat</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-21T13:13:53Z">1:13 pm <em>on</em> January 21, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/" class="thepermalink" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to leave a Comment</a> </span> <span class="tags">   </span> </span> </h4> <div id="content-2795" class="postcontent"> <h2><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/">Menus discussion today </a></h2><p>I’d like to hold our first menus IRC discussion today at 21:00 UTC (4:00pm EST, 1:00pm PST) in #wordpress-dev. </p> <p>Here’s a reminder of more or less where we’re at: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/16/heres-a-quick-update-on-the-3-6-menu/" rel="nofollow">http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/16/heres-a-quick-update-on-the-3-6-menu/</a></p> <p>In addition to talking about the feature, we’ll figure out a good time to hold all other bi-weekly meetings. Thanks!</p> </div> <div class="discussion" style="display: none"> <p> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/dd2a707274b17609b80205a5f236f7e3?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.miqrogroove.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Robert Chapin (miqrogroove)</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/f27b79eb04eb414c4c1fc98375fe7404?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://ran.ge/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Aaron D. Campbell</a>, <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=16&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D16&r=G" class="avatar avatar-16 photo" height="16" width="16"/> lessbloat, and 2 others are discussing. <a href="#" class="show-comments">Toggle Comments</a> </p> </div> <div class="bottom-of-entry"> </div> <ul id="comments-2795" class="commentlist inlinecomments"> <li id="comment-7631" class="comment byuser comment-author-alexkingorg even thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/b8f2a107f25a4fcc04c607ddd621ea22?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/alexkingorg/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Alex King</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-21T15:13:36Z">3:13 pm <em>on</em> January 21, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7631" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7631" class="commentcontent"><p>I will be on a plane and unable to attend the IRC meeting, but wanted to throw in my request for being able to filter in new “types” of menu items and fully override the output of any particular menu item. Super-useful for mega-menus, etc.</p> <p>The change to 2 screens sounds like it will address to “too many menus for the UX design” – awesome!</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7633" class="comment byuser comment-author-travisnorthcutt odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/69e090710d2a4303aeb8151a5c1f90d7?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://profiles.wordpress.org/users/travisnorthcutt/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Travis Northcutt</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-21T16:33:20Z">4:33 pm <em>on</em> January 21, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7633" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7633" class="commentcontent"><p>@Alex can you expand on how that filter might be used? Can’t conceptualize it for some reason.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7634" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat bypostauthor even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-21T16:52:26Z">4:52 pm <em>on</em> January 21, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7634" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7634" class="commentcontent"><p>Thanks Alex, </p> <blockquote><p> wanted to throw in my request for being able to filter in new “types” of menu items </p></blockquote> <p>Mind explaining that one a bit more, and I’ll bring that up in the meeting.</p> <blockquote><p> wanted to throw in my request for being able to…fully override the output of any particular menu item </p></blockquote> <p>I was thinking about this over the weekend, and I agree. I think this will go a long way towards making edge cases (collapsable trees, bulk menu item actions, etc…) easily extensible via plugins. My goal is to keep this <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://wordpress.org/about/philosophy/#clean" rel="nofollow">clean, lean, and mean</a> for the majority of users, but to also make menus easy to extend.</p> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7637" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat bypostauthor odd alt thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-21T20:54:56Z">8:54 pm <em>on</em> January 21, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7637" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7637" class="commentcontent"><p>Here’s the rough agenda I’d like to follow today if possible:</p> <ul> <li>Welcome</li> <li>Time for office hours</li> <li>Here’s where we’re at: <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23119#comment:131" rel="nofollow">http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23119#comment:131</a></li> <li>There was some concern in the last dev chat that the manage screen is too heavy?</li> <li>2 files or 1?</li> <li>Common links name: “Handy links”, “Useful Links”, “Helpful Links”, “Quick Links”</li> <li>Alex King’s first point: being able to fully override the output of any particular menu item</li> <li>Theme locations</li> <li>Linking to widgets</li> <li>Alex King’s second point: being able to filter in new “types” of menu items (not 100% sure what he meant with this one)</li> <li>Anything else?</li> </ul> </div> </li> <li id="comment-7649" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat bypostauthor even thread-odd thread-alt depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-22T16:45:26Z">4:45 pm <em>on</em> January 22, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7649" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7649" class="commentcontent"><p>Here’s a recap of what we covered:</p> <ul> <li>Office hours for menus in 3.6</li> <li>Nacins menu workflow concept</li> <li>“Common links” meta box</li> </ul> <p><strong>Office hours for menus in 3.6</strong></p> <p>We’ll plan on having office hours Mon & Thu at 21:00 UTC (4:00pm EST, 1:00pm PST) in #wordpress-dev</p> <p>If there’s an agenda (there likely will be for the next couple), I’ll post it here on the make/core P2. Otherwise feel free to come with questions/thoughts.</p> <p><strong>Nacins menu workflow concept</strong></p> <p>Nacin shared the following observations:</p> <ul> <li>The current UI is too advanced, and any workflow improvements should make it more simple for users.</li> <li>The most common use case is having one menu.</li> <li>The vast majority of menus are used in theme locations and widgets. We should tailor around those two use cases.</li> <li>The current workflow: A) create a menu from scratch, and then B) assign it to either a theme location, or a widget can lead to confusion, and is quite possibly overly complex.</li> </ul> <p>And proposed a rough concept along the lines of:</p> <ul> <li>With the custom menu widget, you’d: 1) add a custom menu widget to the sidebar 2) click a “Edit this menu” link/button which takes you to a screen where you’d edit that menu. This would likely take you to nav-menus.php?menu=that-menu-id. If the custom menu widget is newly added, it would take you to the “add new menu” screen.</li> <li>With theme locations, instead of selecting from a drop down of menus that you’ve created, each theme location would just have a link to edit that menu. You’d 1) Click the edit link under the theme location you’d like to edit, 2) Make changes to that pre-existing menu, 3) click save, and be done.</li> <li>We’d no longer need to display a list of menus you have, we’d just display a list of theme locations. Widget menus are represented in the widgets section, so they don’t need to be listed anywhere.</li> </ul> <p>Edge cases brought up (which we’d have to consider to make this work):</p> <ul> <li>While theme locations and widgets cover the vast majority of use cases for menus, you can use them elsewhere. wp_nav_menu() accepts ID, slug, or name of a menu. As such, we’d still need to be able to provide a way for users to add menus outside of theme locations and widgets. How would we display these additional menus?</li> <li>What happens to my predefined theme location menus when I switch themes to a theme which has a completely different set of theme locations? How would that work in the UI?</li> </ul> <p><strong>“Common links” meta box</strong></p> <p>We proposed “Common Links” meta box in <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/23119#comment:69" rel="nofollow">23119.14.diff</a>. Currently it defaults to showing a “home” link, and a “log in” link. Both of which are relatively hard to add to a menu. </p> <p>The idea is to:</p> <ul> <li>Move the ‘Home’ link out of the Pages</li> <li>Make it easy to add a link to the login form (which many users have trouble with)</li> <li>Make these links easily discoverable</li> <li>Provide a filter for plugins to add/remove links to this “other” metabox</li> </ul> <p>I had hoped to settle on whether we should keep this new meta box, and if so, what we should call it. Both are still up in the air.</p> <p><strong>Things to think about before our next office hours</strong></p> <p>1) How can we make Nacins concept work?<br/> 2) Should we keep the new custom links meta box? If so, what should we call it?</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7694" class="comment byuser comment-author-lessbloat bypostauthor odd alt depth-2"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/4c5da16f1f65bd9824bc30cb1cc62e8f?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F0.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> lessbloat <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T18:27:19Z">6:27 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7694" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7694" class="commentcontent"><p>I mocked up my interpretation of Nacins concept:</p> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://f.cl.ly/items/3T1Z400w372x2v0T3R1a/nacins-concept.jpg" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://f.cl.ly/items/3T1Z400w372x2v0T3R1a/nacins-concept.jpg" width="500"/></a></p> <p>A couple notes:</p> <ul> <li>My thought was that we could add another option in screen options to show/hide the “add menu” button on the page (in the normal spot next to the header). It would be hidden by default. This way, advanced users can still add menus for the edge cases mentioned <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7649" rel="nofollow">above</a> (when added, they’ll also show up in the “Select a menu” area), but the majority of users will no longer have to deal with the complexity of adding a menu and then assigning it to a theme location.</li> <li>When you switch themes, any menu which was assigned to a default menu, would just become an unassigned menu. You could then click to edit the unassigned menu, and then assign it to a theme location in the new theme (through a drop down or something – perhaps at the bottom of the right column). Widget menus would just transfer over.</li> <li>Upon adding a custom menu widget, you’d see this:</li> </ul> <p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://f.cl.ly/items/3E1Q0N401P2D3n0n3J1Q/nacins-concept-widgets.jpg" rel="nofollow"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://f.cl.ly/items/3E1Q0N401P2D3n0n3J1Q/nacins-concept-widgets.jpg" width="500"/></a></p> <p>Or something similar, which would take you back to nav-menus.php.</p> <p>What do you think? Could this approach work? If not, why? </p> <p>p.s. Please don’t focus on the aesthetic of the design at this point. This is just a rough mockup. If the concept works, we can focus on improving the way it looks next.</p> </div> <ul class="children"> <li id="comment-7697" class="comment byuser comment-author-aaroncampbell even depth-3"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/f27b79eb04eb414c4c1fc98375fe7404?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://ran.ge/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Aaron D. Campbell</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-23T18:50:13Z">6:50 pm <em>on</em> January 23, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7697" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7697" class="commentcontent"><p>My first thoughts:</p> <p>The things I like:</p> <ul> <li>I really like the way this handles new widgets.</li> <li>I like that it feels very light weight.</li> </ul> <p>The questions/concerns:</p> <ul> <li>I’d love to see how you’ll handle adding existing menus as a widget. For example, if you change themes and you want one of those unassigned menus to be used as a widget or if you create the menu before you add the widget.</li> <li>Widgets save immediately, so we need to make sure that a new widget with an empty menu has no output. We also need to make sure that updating a menu used in a widget clears any cache associated with the widget.</li> <li>If you have a decent number of menus, even just 10, then you really start pushing down that left column of items to add.</li> </ul> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="comment-7739" class="comment byuser comment-author-miqrogroove odd alt thread-even depth-1"> <img alt="" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541im_/http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/dd2a707274b17609b80205a5f236f7e3?s=32&d=http%3A%2F%2F1.gravatar.com%2Favatar%2Fad516503a11cd5ca435acc9bb6523536%3Fs%3D32&r=G" class="avatar avatar-32 photo" height="32" width="32"/> <h4> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://www.miqrogroove.com/" rel="external nofollow" class="url">Robert Chapin (miqrogroove)</a> <span class="meta"> <abbr title="2013-01-24T16:49:17Z">4:49 pm <em>on</em> January 24, 2013</abbr> <span class="actions"> <a class="thepermalink" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/2013/01/21/menus-discussion-today/#comment-7739" title="Permalink">Permalink</a> | <a rel="nofollow" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/wp-login.php?redirect_to=http%3A%2F%2Fmake.wordpress.org%2Fcore%2F2013%2F01%2F21%2Fmenus-discussion-today%2F">Log in to Reply</a> </span> </span> </h4> <div id="commentcontent-7739" class="commentcontent"><p>A common problem with this mockup and the 3.5 system is that there is no visual indication of where to find Tags, Posts, and other menu items that are missing by default.</p> </div> </li> </ul> </li> </ul> <div class="navigation"> <p class="nav-older"><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20130126200541/http://make.wordpress.org/core/page/2/">← Older posts</a></p> <p class="nav-newer"></p> </div> </div>  </div>  <div class="clear"></div> </div>  <div id="notify"></div> <div id="help"> <dl class="directions"> 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