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.wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Question_book_magnify2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/25px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/38px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/50px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="60" data-file-height="60"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia:Help Project">Wikipedia Help</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-high">High‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Question_book_magnify2.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/50px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/75px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Question_book_magnify2.svg/100px-Question_book_magnify2.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="60" data-file-height="60"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia:Help Project">Wikipedia Help Project</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's help documentation for readers and contributors. If you would like to participate, please visit <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia:Help Project">the project page</a>, where you can join the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia talk:Help Project">discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks. To browse help related resources see the <a href="/wiki/Help:Menu" title="Help:Menu">Help Menu</a> or <a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Help:Contents">Help Directory</a>. Or <span class="noprint plainlinks" title="Edit Special:MyTalk"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:MyTalk&action=edit&section=new&preload=Help:Contents/helpmepreload&preloadtitle=Help+me%21"><b>ask for help on your talk page</b></a></span> and a volunteer will visit you there.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Wikipedia Help</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:Help Project</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:Wikipedia Help Project</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Help articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-high"><a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_Help_articles" title="Category:High-importance Help articles">High</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This page has been rated as <b>High-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Help_Project/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:Help Project/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <p class="mw-empty-elt"> </p> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="box-Warning plainlinks tmbox tmbox-content" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Emblem-important.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Warning"><img alt="Warning" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Emblem-important.svg/80px-Emblem-important.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="80" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Emblem-important.svg/120px-Emblem-important.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/4c/Emblem-important.svg/160px-Emblem-important.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text" style="text-align: center;"><div style="font-size: 150%; text-align: center; height: 2em"><b>This is <em>not</em> the page to ask for help or make test edits.</b></div> <p><big><br/> This page is for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">discussion</a> of the <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1" title="Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines/1">Introduction to policies and guidelines/1</a> page itself. For other help, please go here:</big> </p><p><span class="plainlinks clickbutton"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse"><span class="mw-ui-button mw-ui-progressive" style="line-height:1.2em; margin-top:10px; margin-bottom:10px; padding:1em 2em; border-radius:4px;"><span style="font-size:125%;color:white;">Get help at the Teahouse</span></span></a></span> </p> <big>To make test edits, please use the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Sandbox" title="Wikipedia:Sandbox">Sandbox</a>. For other help, please see our <a href="/wiki/Help:Contents" title="Help:Contents">main help page</a>.</big></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Fairytale_key_enter.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png/40px-Fairytale_key_enter.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png/60px-Fairytale_key_enter.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png 2x" data-file-width="64" data-file-height="64"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">To help <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#Centralized_talk_pages" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">centralize</a> discussions and keep related topics together, all <span class="selfreference"><a href="/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Help:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines" title="Special:PrefixIndex/Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines">"Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines" talk pages</a></span> redirect here.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="box-Notice plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/40px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/80px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text" style="text-align: left;"><b>Feedback</b> from new editors on the tutorial series is collected <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction/feedback" title="Help:Introduction/feedback">here</a>. To leave feedback, please <span class="noprint plainlinks" title="Edit Help:Introduction/feedback"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Introduction/feedback&action=edit&section=new&editintro=Template:Feedback_editintro/Help:Introduction&preload=Template:Feedback_preload/Help:Introduction&preloadtitle=Feedback+from+%5B%5BUser%3A%7B%7Bsubst%3AREVISIONUSER%7D%7D%7C%7B%7Bsubst%3AREVISIONUSER%7D%7D%5D%5D+%28%7B%7Bsubst%3A%23time%3Aj+F+Y%7D%7D%29">click here</a></span>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1243927654"><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/24px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="24" height="22" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/36px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/NewFavicon_icon.svg/48px-NewFavicon_icon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text banner-shell-header"><span class="nowrap" style="float:left"> </span>Other talk page banners</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table id="ame" class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-style" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_States.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/50px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="26" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/75px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Flag_of_the_United_States.svg/100px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1235" data-file-height="650"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is <b>written in <a href="/wiki/American_English" title="American English">American English</a></b>, which has its own spelling conventions (<i>color</i>, <i>defense</i>, <i>traveled</i>) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other <a href="/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_English" title="List of dialects of English">varieties of English</a>. According to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">relevant style guide</a>, this should not be changed without <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Levels_of_consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">broad consensus</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-move" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/36px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png" decoding="async" width="36" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/54px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg/72px-Merge-split-transwiki_default.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="36" data-file-height="40"/></span></span></td><td class="mbox-text">On 27 January 2023, it was proposed that this page be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">moved</a> to <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines">Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines</a>. The result of <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/1137425329#Requested_move_27_January_2023" title="Special:PermanentLink/1137425329">the discussion</a> was <b>not moved</b>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Icons" data-mw-thread-id="h-Icons-2012-10-02T05:29:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Icons-2012-10-02T05:29:00.000Z"></span>Icons<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Icons-2012-10-02T05:29:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pbsouthwood-2012-10-02T05:29:00.000Z-Icons"></span>The display of this page (content section) on IE8 is overlapping the icons on the left and the text that follows them, so some of the text is covered by the icons. • • • <a href="/wiki/User:Pbsouthwood" title="User:Pbsouthwood">Peter (Southwood)</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pbsouthwood" title="User talk:Pbsouthwood"><sup>(talk)</sup></a>: 05:29, 2 October 2012 (UTC) make sure to love me <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:X_x_x_baby_x_x_x&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:X x x baby x x x (page does not exist)">X x x baby x x x</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:X_x_x_baby_x_x_x#top" title="User talk:X x x baby x x x">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/X_x_x_baby_x_x_x" title="Special:Contributions/X x x baby x x x">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Pbsouthwood-2012-10-02T05:29:00.000Z-Icons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:43, 26 August 2019 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pbsouthwood-2012-10-02T05:29:00.000Z-Icons"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pbsouthwood-2012-10-02T05:29:00.000Z-Icons"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Suggestions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Suggestions-2016-01-28T11:53:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Suggestions-2016-01-28T11:53:00.000Z"></span>Suggestions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Suggestions-2016-01-28T11:53:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div style="float:right; margin:10px;"> <div style="max-width: 400px; overflow: hidden; background:#FFF; border: 1px solid #777; padding-bottom: 4px; margin: auto; text-align: center; align-items: center; justify-content: center;"> <div style="font-size:150%; background:#777;"> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction"><span style="color:#FFF;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2016-01-28T11:53:00.000Z-Suggestions"></span>Introductory editing tutorials</span></a></div> <div style="padding:4px;"> <p><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">These tutorials</a> explain how to edit <br/>with <a href="/wiki/Help:Wiki_markup" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Wiki markup">wiki markup</a> (Wikipedia's source code)<br/> and with <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VisualEditor" title="Wikipedia:VisualEditor">VisualEditor</a> (a user-friendly interface). </p> <hr/> <div style="margin: auto; text-align: center; align-items: center; justify-content: center;"> <p><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_Wikipedia" title="Help:Introduction to Wikipedia">Starting introduction</a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1" title="Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines/1">Policies and Guidelines</a><br/> </p> <div style="float: right; width: calc(50% - 30px); text-align: left; align-items: left; justify-content: left;"> <p><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VE/UG" title="Wikipedia:VE/UG"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/VisualEditor-logo.svg/120px-VisualEditor-logo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="120" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/VisualEditor-logo.svg/180px-VisualEditor-logo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/VisualEditor-logo.svg/240px-VisualEditor-logo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="641" data-file-height="225"/></a></span> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_editing_with_VisualEditor/1" title="Help:Introduction to editing with VisualEditor/1">Editing </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_referencing_with_VisualEditor/1" title="Help:Introduction to referencing with VisualEditor/1">Referencing </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_images_with_VisualEditor/1" title="Help:Introduction to images with VisualEditor/1">Images </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_tables_with_VisualEditor/1" title="Help:Introduction to tables with VisualEditor/1">Tables </a> </p> </div> <div style="float: right; width:60px; text-align: center; align-items: center; justify-content: center;"> <div style="height: 170px; width: 30px; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; background: #E5E5E5;"></div> <div style="margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; width: 0; height: 0; border-style: solid; border-color: #E5E5E5 transparent transparent transparent; border-width: 30px 25px 0 25px;"></div> </div> <div style="float: left; width: calc(50% - 30px); text-align: right; align-items: right; justify-content: right;"> <p><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/H:MARKUP" title="H:MARKUP"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Source_editor_logo.svg/120px-Source_editor_logo.svg.png" decoding="async" width="120" height="42" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Source_editor_logo.svg/180px-Source_editor_logo.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/bb/Source_editor_logo.svg/240px-Source_editor_logo.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="641" data-file-height="224"/></a></span><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_editing_with_Wiki_Markup/1" title="Help:Introduction to editing with Wiki Markup/1">Editing </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_referencing_with_Wiki_Markup/1" title="Help:Introduction to referencing with Wiki Markup/1">Referencing </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_images_with_Wiki_Markup/1" title="Help:Introduction to images with Wiki Markup/1">Images </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_tables/1" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Introduction to tables/1">Tables </a> </p> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <p><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_talk_pages/1" title="Help:Introduction to talk pages/1">Talk pages </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_navigating_Wikipedia/1" title="Help:Introduction to navigating Wikipedia/1">Navigating Wikipedia </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_the_Manual_of_Style" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Introduction to the Manual of Style">Manual of Style </a><br/> <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction/Conclusion" title="Help:Introduction/Conclusion">Conclusion </a> </p> </div></div></div> </div> <p>I've formatted this using the <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Intro_to" title="Template:Intro to">intro to</a>}}</code> template to keep formatting consistent and centrally controlled with the other <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to" class="mw-redirect" title="Help:Introduction to">Help:introduction to</a> pages. I've a few suggestions for other updates and improvements: </p> <ul><li>Conduct is a bit wordy. Maybe there's a way to cut down wordcount by 20%?</li> <li>Are the nutshells necessary for such short paves? Could they just be lead sentences?</li> <li>Somehow "policies and guidelines" feels really dry and may reduce readers. Perhaps there are other main titles that are less intimidating like "Principles" or even "content and conduct" or something?</li></ul> <p>What do other people think? <span class="nowrap"><a href="/wiki/User:Evolution_and_evolvability" title="User:Evolution and evolvability">T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)</a><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Evolution_and_evolvability" title="User talk:Evolution and evolvability">talk</a></sup></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2016-01-28T11:53:00.000Z-Suggestions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:53, 28 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2016-01-28T11:53:00.000Z-Suggestions"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Evolution_and_evolvability-2016-01-28T11:53:00.000Z-Suggestions"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="NPOV_is_not_necessairly_objective" data-mw-thread-id="h-NPOV_is_not_necessairly_objective-2017-02-20T23:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-NPOV_is_not_necessairly_objective-2017-02-20T23:26:00.000Z"></span>NPOV is not necessairly objective<span data-mw-comment-end="h-NPOV_is_not_necessairly_objective-2017-02-20T23:26:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Calexit-2017-02-20T23:26:00.000Z-NPOV_is_not_necessairly_objective"></span>Neutral point-of-view (or NPOV) means content is written objectively and without bias, merely presenting the facts and notable viewpoints of others.</i></dd></dl> <p><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> page avoids any use of the word <i>objective</i>. Actually, the only use is to respond to the misunderstanding where NPOV might be thought of as a state of objectivity. </p><p>Let's find a better way to present such an important part of future Wikipedians orientation to WP. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Calexit&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Calexit (page does not exist)">Calexit</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Calexit" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Calexit">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Calexit-2017-02-20T23:26:00.000Z-NPOV_is_not_necessairly_objective" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:26, 20 February 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Calexit-2017-02-20T23:26:00.000Z-NPOV_is_not_necessairly_objective"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Calexit-2017-02-20T23:26:00.000Z-NPOV_is_not_necessairly_objective"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Changing_username" data-mw-thread-id="h-Changing_username-2020-03-30T17:48:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Changing_username-2020-03-30T17:48:00.000Z"></span>Changing username<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Changing_username-2020-03-30T17:48:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:48:00.000Z-Changing_username"></span>Nice to be here and I believe l will be meeting some other members of the community for a nice time of sharing different ideas and experiences. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Chekwubeokeke&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Chekwubeokeke (page does not exist)">Chekwubeokeke</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Chekwubeokeke&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Chekwubeokeke (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:48:00.000Z-Changing_username" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:48, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:48:00.000Z-Changing_username"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:48:00.000Z-Changing_username"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:51:00.000Z-Changing_username"></span>My username is chekwubeokeke but I will to change my username to Chineduokeke I don’t know if it is possible? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Chekwubeokeke&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Chekwubeokeke (page does not exist)">Chekwubeokeke</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Chekwubeokeke&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Chekwubeokeke (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:51:00.000Z-Changing_username" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:51, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:51:00.000Z-Changing_username"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:51:00.000Z-Changing_username"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sdkb-2020-03-30T18:04:00.000Z-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:51:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Chekwubeokeke&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Chekwubeokeke (page does not exist)">Chekwubeokeke</a>:</span> it's unfortunately not that easy. You're looking for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Changing_username" title="Wikipedia:Changing username">Wikipedia:Changing username</a>, but you need to read the instructions carefully. <a href="/wiki/User:Sdkb" title="User:Sdkb">Sdkb</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sdkb" title="User talk:Sdkb">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Sdkb-2020-03-30T18:04:00.000Z-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:04, 30 March 2020 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sdkb-2020-03-30T18:04:00.000Z-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:51:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sdkb-2020-03-30T18:04:00.000Z-Chekwubeokeke-2020-03-30T17:51:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?-2021-07-28T18:45:00.000Z"><span id="Are_Trump.27s_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?-2021-07-28T18:45:00.000Z"></span>Are Trump's lies unprecedented in American political history?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?-2021-07-28T18:45:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sdkb-2021-07-28T18:45:00.000Z-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?"></span>Is it really true that "Donald Trump made many false or misleading statements during his campaign and presidency, to a degree unprecedented in American politics"? (This is presented as a neutral factual statement in the POV quiz.) </p><p>Certainly, respected media sources have documented many falsehoods. But did Trump equivocate to an extent which is *unprecedented* in American politics? </p><p>For example, biographies of Thomas Jefferson have recounted that he would push false claims and conspiracy theories to strategic advantage, either directly or through proxies. So how strong is the evidence to assert that Trump's mendacity is without precedent in American political history? Is there really a consensus on this? <span class="autosigned" style="font-size:85%;">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Lionmarble&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Lionmarble (page does not exist)">Lionmarble</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lionmarble#top" title="User talk:Lionmarble">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Lionmarble" title="Special:Contributions/Lionmarble">contribs</a>) </span> </p> <dl><dd><span class="template-ping">@<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Lionmarble&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Lionmarble (page does not exist)">Lionmarble</a>:</span> There's been a lot of discussion about that at <a href="/wiki/Talk:Donald_Trump" title="Talk:Donald Trump">Talk:Donald Trump</a> (see the current consensus list there). The quiz here just follows the result there, so if you want to question that result, Trump's talk page would be the place to do it. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>{{u|</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088"><a href="/wiki/User:Sdkb" title="User:Sdkb"><span style="color:#FFF"><b>Sdkb</b></span></a></span><small>}}</small></span> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sdkb" title="User talk:Sdkb"><b>talk</b></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Sdkb-2021-07-28T18:45:00.000Z-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:45, 28 July 2021 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sdkb-2021-07-28T18:45:00.000Z-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sdkb-2021-07-28T18:45:00.000Z-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Swil999-2022-01-30T01:32:00.000Z-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?"></span>Wouldn't it preferable to include some sort of stat for "to a degree unprecedented in American politics", otherwise wouldn't it present a similar problem as with calling the Yankees one of the greatest teams of all times - where the model example includes stats for teams won and how it's 3x more than any other team. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Swil999&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Swil999 (page does not exist)">Swil999</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Swil999" title="User talk:Swil999">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Swil999-2022-01-30T01:32:00.000Z-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:32, 30 January 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Swil999-2022-01-30T01:32:00.000Z-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Swil999-2022-01-30T01:32:00.000Z-Are_Trump's_lies_unprecedented_in_American_political_history?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Reordering_and_tweaking_of_these_examples" data-mw-thread-id="h-Reordering_and_tweaking_of_these_examples-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Reordering_and_tweaking_of_these_examples-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z"></span>Reordering and tweaking of these examples<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Reordering_and_tweaking_of_these_examples-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Leijurv-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z-Reordering_and_tweaking_of_these_examples"></span>I think some of <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/neutrality_quiz" title="Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines/neutrality quiz">these examples</a> should be reordered and/or tweaked. Mainly, I feel as though the examples focus a bit too much on turns of phrase. It feels closer to a <a href="/wiki/MOS:WTW" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:WTW">MOS:WTW</a> quiz rather than a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> quiz. I think the examples such as on Michael Phelps or the Holocaust are the clearer and cleaner ways of getting the idea across. Considering that this page is meant for beginners, and that some people learn by example, I think it's a good idea to make the examples more intuitive (without compromising on coverage of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> idea). Perhaps it would even be a good idea to split the page into two columns, with a bad phrasing on the left column and a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>-compliant phrasing in the right column. </p><p>Examples I think should be emphasized/moved up/expanded/added: </p> <ul><li>Michael Phelps. Honestly I think this one should be moved to first. It's a very clear and direct way of getting across the idea that <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> isn't just about saying what's verifiably true, it's about a neutral presentation of that information. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">WP:DUE</a> is one of the more common applications of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a>, we should spend way more than one example on it <small>(ironically, it isn't getting <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">WP:DUE</a> weight)</small></li> <li>Scientific fact. Vaccines is the current one, but I think one on flat earth might be a good idea too. For example, consider something like <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks"><b>Earth</b> is the third <a href="/wiki/Planet" title="Planet">planet</a> from the <a href="/wiki/Sun" title="Sun">Sun</a> and the only <a href="/wiki/Astronomical_object" title="Astronomical object">astronomical object</a> known to harbor <a href="/wiki/Life" title="Life">life</a>. While many people <a href="/wiki/Spherical_Earth" title="Spherical Earth">think that the Earth is spherical</a>, more and more people <a href="/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_beliefs" title="Modern flat Earth beliefs">are coming to agree that the Earth is actually flat</a>.</q> and then something like <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">Not neutral. This is an example of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FALSEBALANCE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FALSEBALANCE">false balance</a>. This sentence is true (<a href="/wiki/Modern_flat_Earth_beliefs" title="Modern flat Earth beliefs">modern flat Earth beliefs</a> are indeed growing), but this phrasing is highly misleading as it leads the reader to think that there is substantive disagreement about the shape of the Earth. In reality, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">reliable sources</a> have an overwhelming consensus on the shape of the Earth, to the point where the spherical Earth perspective is treated by Wikipedia as fact, and the flat Earth perspective is considered <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FRINGE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FRINGE">WP:FRINGE</a>, meaning it need not be mentioned.</q></li> <li>Historical fact. The Holocaust is a fine one. It's a very sensitive subject which has upsides and downsides, an easy alternative might be <a href="/wiki/Moon_landing_denial" class="mw-redirect" title="Moon landing denial">moon landing denial</a>, but I don't feel strongly.</li> <li>Fringe in general. The Holocaust or flat earth are some examples, but it might be a good idea to consider other cases where a fringe belief should not be mentioned at all, outside of pseudoscience.</li> <li>Cats. It's a good example of how we talk about movies through the voice of critics. Might be good to include a contrasting bad example of how not to.</li></ul> <p>Examples I think should be deemphasized/moved lower/merged/tweaked: </p> <ul><li>Facebook. Not much wrong with it, I just don't think it teaches the reader anything. It too could be improved if it demonstrated a constrasting example of an incorrect phrasing, though.</li> <li>Trump. I'm not sure it does a good job of demonstrating what it tries to (its answer says, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">even when it differs from a view held by a large portion of the general public</q>). I think there could be better examples of "counterintuitive truths" that get the idea across without the political baggage and connotations of Trump, we could just take something from <a href="/wiki/List_of_common_misconceptions" title="List of common misconceptions">list of common misconceptions</a>.</li> <li>Yankees and Shakespeare. For the average reader, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">is one of the greatest</q> probably reads about the same as <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">is widely considered to be one of the greatest</q>. These examples should definitely be merged, that would get across this slightly unintuitive difference in phrasing.</li> <li>Mao and Diana. <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">cruel disregard</q> and <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">tragic</q> are similar to the Yankees and Shakespeare example, but the quiz suggests that instead of saying it in "critic voice" or "widely considered voice", the sentence should just be rephrased. One might ask: why can we say that Shakespeare is <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">widely considered one of the greatest</q> but not that Diana's death was <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk inline-quote-talk-marks">widely considered to be tragic</q>. It would be better to make clear if/when/why it's appropriate and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPOV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPOV">WP:NPOV</a> to use the abstraction of "widely considered".</li></ul> <p>But before I do anything I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on this! <a href="/wiki/User:Leijurv" title="User:Leijurv">Leijurv</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Leijurv" title="User talk:Leijurv">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Leijurv-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z-Reordering_and_tweaking_of_these_examples" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:26, 11 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Leijurv-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z-Reordering_and_tweaking_of_these_examples"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Leijurv-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z-Reordering_and_tweaking_of_these_examples"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nielsen_Lasse-20240521063100-Leijurv-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z"></span>I completely agree with your statements and found most of the examples far below the standards we should strive for. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Nielsen_Lasse&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Nielsen Lasse (page does not exist)">Nielsen Lasse</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nielsen_Lasse" title="User talk:Nielsen Lasse">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Nielsen_Lasse-20240521063100-Leijurv-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:31, 21 May 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nielsen_Lasse-20240521063100-Leijurv-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nielsen_Lasse-20240521063100-Leijurv-2022-07-11T23:26:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Requested_move_27_January_2023" data-mw-thread-id="h-Requested_move_27_January_2023-20230127120400"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Requested_move_27_January_2023-20230127120400"></span>Requested move 27 January 2023<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Requested_move_27_January_2023-20230127120400"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-EchidnaLives-20230206223900-Requested_move_27_January_2023"></span>The following is a closed discussion of a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">requested move</a>. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Move_review" title="Wikipedia:Move review">move review</a> after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </i></dd></dl> <p>The result of the move request was: <b>not moved.</b> <small>(<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves/Closing_instructions#Closure_by_a_page_mover" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves/Closing instructions">closed by non-admin page mover</a>)</small> <a href="/wiki/User:EchidnaLives" title="User:EchidnaLives"><span style="color:#b257f7">echidnaLives</span></a> - <a href="/wiki/User_talk:EchidnaLives" title="User talk:EchidnaLives"><span style="color:#fcaa3f">talk</span></a> - <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/EchidnaLives" title="Special:Contributions/EchidnaLives"><span style="color:#3f78fc">edits</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-EchidnaLives-20230206223900-Requested_move_27_January_2023" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:39, 6 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-EchidnaLives-20230206223900-Requested_move_27_January_2023"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-EchidnaLives-20230206223900-Requested_move_27_January_2023"></span> </p> <hr/> <p><a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1" title="Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines/1"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Trialpears-20230127120400-Requested_move_27_January_2023"></span>Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines/1</a> → <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines&redirect=no">Help:Introduction to policies and guidelines</a></span> – I see no reason to have a /1 for the first page rather than just placing it on the basepage. The /1 page should of course be redirected. --<a href="/wiki/User:Trialpears" title="User:Trialpears">Trialpears</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Trialpears" title="User talk:Trialpears">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Trialpears-20230127120400-Requested_move_27_January_2023" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:04, 27 January 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Trialpears-20230127120400-Requested_move_27_January_2023"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Trialpears-20230127120400-Requested_move_27_January_2023"></span> </p> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Sdkb-20230127152700-Trialpears-20230127120400"></span>Oppose</b>. There are technical aspects that would require us to increase complexity considerably if we did this (which I can go into if you're curious). But more to the point, we want to encourage readers to go through all the pages, not just the first one, and putting /1 in the title helps establish from the start that there's more to read beyond this. Also, if this page was just at the proposed title, all the pages after it would be considered subpages of it, which wouldn't be correct taxonomy. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>{{u|</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088"><a href="/wiki/User:Sdkb" title="User:Sdkb"><span style="color:#FFF"><b>Sdkb</b></span></a></span><small>}}</small></span> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Sdkb" title="User talk:Sdkb"><b>talk</b></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Sdkb-20230127152700-Trialpears-20230127120400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:27, 27 January 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Sdkb-20230127152700-Trialpears-20230127120400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Sdkb-20230127152700-Trialpears-20230127120400"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asukite-20230204161000-Trialpears-20230127120400"></span>Note: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Help_Project" title="Wikipedia talk:Help Project">Help Project</a> has been notified of this discussion. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asukite" title="User talk:Asukite"><span style="color:Purple;font-size:medium;font-family:Bradley Hand ITC"> ASUKITE</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Asukite-20230204161000-Trialpears-20230127120400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:10, 4 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asukite-20230204161000-Trialpears-20230127120400"></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asukite-20230204161000-Trialpears-20230127120400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Asukite-20230204161200-Trialpears-20230127120400"></span>Oppose</b> - it does seem that the /1 makes the progression of help pages a bit more obvious, as well as what Sdkb noted above as far as incorrect taxonomy. Was going to re-list this but I'll hold off as it seems fairly straightforward.<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Asukite" title="User talk:Asukite"><span style="color:Purple;font-size:medium;font-family:Bradley Hand ITC"> ASUKITE</span></a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help_talk:Introduction_to_policies_and_guidelines/1#c-Asukite-20230204161200-Trialpears-20230127120400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:12, 4 February 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Asukite-20230204161200-Trialpears-20230127120400"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Asukite-20230204161200-Trialpears-20230127120400"></span></li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. 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