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Welcome! <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">Learn to edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">get help</a>.</li></ul> </div> <div class="talkheader-policies"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Be polite</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">avoid personal attacks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">Be welcoming to newcomers</a></li> <li>Seek <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">dispute resolution</a> if needed</li></ul> </div> </div> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1243927654">.mw-parser-output .banner-shell{border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:4px}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-header{text-align:center;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{padding:2px 4px;background:#fffaef;color:inherit;border:1px dotted gray}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox{margin:2px 0;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox.mbox-small{line-height:1.5em;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner .banner-shell-outside{display:none}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpbs{width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .assess{width:60px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-header{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em 0.25em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-header{display:table-row}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb:not(.mw-collapsed) .wpb-header-icon a{display:none}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell wpbs mw-collapsible"><tbody><tr><td class="assess"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_template_class_pink.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Template"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Symbol_template_class_pink.svg/35px-Symbol_template_class_pink.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="36" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Symbol_template_class_pink.svg/53px-Symbol_template_class_pink.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Symbol_template_class_pink.svg/70px-Symbol_template_class_pink.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"></a></td><td class="banner-shell-header" style="text-align:left;font-weight:normal">This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale. It is of interest to the following <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProjects</a>:</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner outercollapse"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259570071">.mw-parser-output .wpb-header,.mw-parser-output .wpb-metadata,.mw-parser-output .wpb-iefix{display:none}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-name{text-align:right;padding:0.3em 1em 0.3em 0.3em;width:50%;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-assessment{text-align:left;width:50%;padding:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-combined{text-align:left;padding:0.3em 0.3em 0.3em 0;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .wpb-header-bubbles{border-radius:.5em;padding:0 .3em;margin-left:0.5em;white-space:nowrap;font-weight:normal;color:black}.mw-parser-output .wpb-nested-task-force{font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output 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screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg/35px-Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="22" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg/53px-Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg/70px-Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="143" data-file-height="88"></a></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Redirect" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Redirect">Redirect</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg/60px-Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg.png" decoding="async" width="60" height="37" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg/90px-Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/71/Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg/120px-Symbol_redirect_arrow_with_gradient.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="143" data-file-height="88"></a></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is within the scope of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Redirect" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Redirect">WikiProject Redirect</a>, a collaborative effort to improve the standard of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirect" title="Wikipedia:Redirect">redirects</a> and their <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RCAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RCAT">categorization</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Redirect">discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks. Note: This banner should be placed on the talk pages of project, template and category pages that exist and operate to maintain redirects. This banner is <big>not</big> designed to be placed on the talk pages of most redirects and <big>almost never</big> on the talk pages of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Mainspace" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Mainspace">mainspace</a> redirects. For more information see the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Redirect" title="Template:WikiProject Redirect">template documentation</a>.RedirectWikipedia:WikiProject RedirectTemplate:WikiProject Redirectredirect pages</td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation" style="text-align:center"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><a href="/wiki/File:Clipboard.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/40px-Clipboard.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/60px-Clipboard.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/80px-Clipboard.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"></a></td><td class="mbox-text">This template and its <a href="/wiki/Category:Redirects_from_moves" title="Category:Redirects from moves">populated category</a> were considered for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_policy" title="Wikipedia:Deletion policy">deletion</a> on 26 December 2010. The result of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2011_January_10#Template:R_from_move" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2011 January 10">discussion</a> was delete BUT not until . . .</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation" style="text-align:center"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><a href="/wiki/File:Clipboard.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/40px-Clipboard.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/60px-Clipboard.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1f/Clipboard.svg/80px-Clipboard.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"></a></td><td class="mbox-text">This template was again considered for <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Deletion_policy" title="Wikipedia:Deletion policy">deletion</a> on 11 September 2013. The result of the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2013_September_11#Template:R_from_move" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 September 11">discussion</a> was no consensus to delete. Following that deletion discussion was an RFC on the <a href="#Request_for_comment">this talk page</a> below. The result of that discussion was to automate the process and add <a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">Template:R from move</a> to all redirects that are left behind from a page move/rename.</td></tr></tbody></table> <div id="toc" class="toc" role="navigation" aria-labelledby="mw-toc-heading"><input type="checkbox" role="button" id="toctogglecheckbox" class="toctogglecheckbox" style="display:none"><div class="toctitle" lang="en" dir="ltr"><h2 id="mw-toc-heading">Contents</h2><label class="toctogglelabel" for="toctogglecheckbox"></label></div> <ul> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-1"><a href="#cui_bono?">1 cui bono?</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-2"><a href="#Automating">2 Automating</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-3"><a href="#Request_for_comment">3 Request for comment</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-4"><a href="#Unclear_wording">4 Unclear wording</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-5"><a href="#Capture_unsynched_talk_page_redirects">5 Capture unsynched talk page redirects</a> <ul> <li class="toclevel-2 tocsection-6"><a href="#Edit_request_on_31_Oct_2015">5.1 Edit request on 31 Oct 2015</a></li> </ul> </li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-7"><a href="#Recent_addition_of_#ifexist_causing_trouble_at_Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked_misspellings">6 Recent addition of #ifexist causing trouble at Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings</a> <ul> <li class="toclevel-2 tocsection-8"><a href="#Fresh_look_at_the_problem">6.1 Fresh look at the problem</a></li> </ul> </li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-9"><a href="#Page_protection_issue">7 Page protection issue</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-10"><a href="#Linking_to_self?">8 Linking to self?</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-11"><a href="#Notes_towards_developing_a_system_to_fix_broken_/_unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects">9 Notes towards developing a system to fix broken / unsynchronized talk page redirects</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-12"><a href="#Script_error">10 Script error</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-13"><a href="#Template-protected_edit_request_on_23_June_2020">11 Template-protected edit request on 23 June 2020</a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-14"><a href="#Recent_revert_21_July_2022">12 Recent revert 21 July 2022</a></li> </ul> </div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(1)"><h2 id="cui_bono?" data-mw-thread-id="h-cui_bono?-2010-08-29T16:28:00.000Z">cui bono?</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: cui bono?" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-111' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-JHunterJ-2012-07-23T10:55:00.000Z-DGG-2011-05-23T16:27:00.000Z">12 years ago</a>3 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-1 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-1"> I think this template may encourage some users to move an article to an inappropriate title, use this template to keep it from being reverted (without a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_moves" title="Wikipedia:Requested moves">request for page-move</a>), then ask everyone to “assume good faith” during that week (“just following instructions”, etc.). <div style="text-align:center; letter-spacing:5em;">∗∗∗</div> Stepping back a bit, what constructive purpose does this template serve? Note that page-moves are recorded amply in the log for the title in question, and in the edit summary of the revision produced during the page-move. What more is needed, and by whom? ―<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/cobaltcigs" title="Special:Contributions/cobaltcigs">cobaltcigs</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Cobaltcigs-2010-08-29T16:28:00.000Z-cui_bono?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 29 August 2010 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>the reason for the template is to explain a necessary redirect, to prevent it being deleted without checking. <a href="/wiki/User:DGG" title="User:DGG"> DGG</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DGG" title="User talk:DGG"> talk </a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-DGG-2011-05-23T16:27:00.000Z-Cobaltcigs-2010-08-29T16:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:27, 23 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>That is true for all redirects, right? That they get checked before deletion? Not all redirects from moves are necessary. -- <a href="/wiki/User:JHunterJ" title="User:JHunterJ">JHunterJ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JHunterJ" title="User talk:JHunterJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-JHunterJ-2012-07-23T10:55:00.000Z-DGG-2011-05-23T16:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:55, 23 July 2012 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(2)"><h2 id="Automating" data-mw-thread-id="h-Automating-2013-05-15T18:20:00.000Z">Automating</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Automating" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-112' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-BDD-2013-05-15T18:20:00.000Z-Automating">11 years ago</a>1 comment1 person in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-2 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-2"> Any chance this could be automatically added to the old page whenever a page is moved? --<a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BDD" title="User talk:BDD">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-BDD-2013-05-15T18:20:00.000Z-Automating" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:20, 15 May 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(3)"><h2 id="Request_for_comment" data-mw-thread-id="h-Request_for_comment-2013-09-23T08:19:00.000Z">Request for comment</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Request for comment" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-113' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-22T19:44:00.000Z-Request_for_comment">11 years ago</a>28 comments7 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-3 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-3"> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1250141580">.mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#EDEAFF;color:inherit;padding:0 0.6em;border:1px solid #8779DD}.mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#c3c3c3;color:inherit;text-align:center;font-size:110%;font-weight:bold}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#181424;border:1px solid #8072d6;color:#fff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#141126;color:#fff}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .archive-top{background-color:#181424;border:1px solid #8072d6;color:#fff}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .archive-top-result .side-box-abovebelow{background-color:#141126;color:#fff}}@media(min-width:640px){.mw-parser-output .archive-top-result{width:30%}}</style><div class="boilerplate archived archive-top mw-archivedtalk" style=""><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1235681985">.mw-parser-output .side-box{margin:4px 0;box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #aaa;font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em;background-color:var(--background-color-interactive-subtle,#f8f9fa);display:flow-root}.mw-parser-output .side-box-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output .side-box-text{padding:0.25em 0.9em}.mw-parser-output .side-box-image{padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .side-box-imageright{padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}@media(min-width:500px){.mw-parser-output .side-box-flex{display:flex;align-items:center}.mw-parser-output .side-box-text{flex:1;min-width:0}}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .side-box{width:238px}.mw-parser-output .side-box-right{clear:right;float:right;margin-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .side-box-left{margin-right:1em}}</style><div class="side-box metadata side-box-right archive-top-result" style="padding: 10px; line-height: inherit;"> <div class="side-box-abovebelow" style="padding: 0;"> RESOLVED</div> <div class="side-box-flex"> <div class="side-box-text" style="padding: 0;">The result of the discussion was that a resolution has been reached and implemented to add this template to newly created redirects from a page move. This auto-sorting into <a href="/wiki/Category:Redirects_from_moves" title="Category:Redirects from moves">Category:Redirects from moves</a> requires the continued use of this template, {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}. – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-22T19:44:00.000Z-Request_for_comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:44, 22 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></div></div> </div> <div class="boilerplate-header" style="margin-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic;"> The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. </div> <hr> The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2013_September_11#Template:R_from_move" title="Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 September 11">deletion discussion</a> that recently closed with no consensus to delete as noted above is obviously unsatisfying for some contributors. The main problem seems to be the allegation that some editors misuse this Rcat by tagging a redirect-from-move with it, thereby making a 2nd edit to the redirect, which makes it more difficult to revert the move. Several possible solutions were discussed for this gnarly problem, and the closer of the deletion discussion suggested these be further discussed. So to try to avert yet a third attempt to delete this Rcat, I feel it's important to try to come up with a solution that will best serve the Wikipedia project and all readers and contributors. So please record your thoughts about this here in this discussion. – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-09-23T08:19:00.000Z-Request_for_comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:19, 23 September 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I'm wondering if the real question to ask shouldn't be "should redirect categorization templates go on talk pages?" That seems to me to be the logical course if we were trying to retain the redirect categorization system, but wanted to preserve redirects for overturning moves. <a href="/wiki/User:Vanisaac" title="User:Vanisaac">Van</a><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vanisaac" title="User talk:Vanisaac">Isaac</a><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Writing_systems" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Writing systems">WS</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Heraldry_and_vexillology" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillology">Vex</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vanisaac" title="Special:Contributions/Vanisaac">contribs</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Vanisaac-2013-10-01T01:26:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-09-23T08:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:26, 1 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Let me try an example so I can see if I can understand you better. Let's say there is a page titled <a href="/wiki/Eye-hand_span" class="mw-redirect" title="Eye-hand span">Eye-hand span</a> (hyphen), and you need to move it to <a href="/wiki/Eye%E2%80%93hand_span" title="Eye–hand span">Eye–hand span</a> (ndash). The talk page, <a href="/wiki/Talk:Eye-hand_span" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Eye-hand span">Talk:Eye-hand span</a> will be moved to <a href="/wiki/Talk:Eye%E2%80%93hand_span" title="Talk:Eye–hand span">Talk:Eye–hand span</a>, as well. Both the article redirect and the talk page redirect that are left behind should then be tagged with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}, {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_modification" title="Template:R from modification">R from modification</a>}} and {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_for_convenience" title="Template:R for convenience">R for convenience</a>}}. Additionally, the article redirect would be tagged with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_unprintworthy" title="Template:R unprintworthy">R unprintworthy</a>}}. Since both the article redirect and the talkpage redirect are tagged, I'm not sure I understand how not tagging the talkpage would make a difference in an editor's ability to reverse the move. What am I missing? – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-01T08:54:00.000Z-Vanisaac-2013-10-01T01:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:54, 1 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Might it make sense for the move page facility to apply this template automatically? — <a href="/wiki/User:Robertgreer" title="User:Robertgreer">Robert Greer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Robertgreer" title="User talk:Robertgreer">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Robertgreer-2013-10-01T16:03:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-01T08:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:03, 1 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-9" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Most certainly it would. But it appears that the devs give this a not-so-high priority. I conjecture that they may realize that most contributors want to do it for the wrong reasons. They want to see the move page categorization automated so no editor will move a page (vandalism or good-faith boo boo or whatever) and then quickly tack {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} on the redirect that's left behind. That second edit on the redirect of course means that most editors can't revert the move without the help of an admin or even a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RM">WP:RM</a> situation. What these contributors seem to miss is that even if the move were to be categorized automatically, there are hundreds of other <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RCAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RCAT">Rcat's</a> just waiting to be used the same way. Everytime I've moved a page, the move Rcat is but one of two or more other Rcats that are needed to tag the redirect, like {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_initialism" title="Template:R from initialism">R from initialism</a>}}, {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_alternative_name" title="Template:R from alternative name">R from alternative name</a>}}, {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_unprintworthy" title="Template:R unprintworthy">R unprintworthy</a>}} and many others. One admin, <a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a>, brought out the only really good reason to automate the move-categorization process. He reminded us that some redirects from moves may go for days, weeks, months, even years before someone like me or several other contributors will get around to it or find it by accident (I've found a lot of those) and categorize them. When the process is automated, the category is immediately populated by the redirect from move. That is the main reason to automate the process, and it is definitely a good one. – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-03T01:58:00.000Z-Robertgreer-2013-10-01T16:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:58, 3 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-10" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Thanks for the kind words, Paine. I'll repeat the essence of my comments at the TfD. Moves are essentially logged in three ways. There's the automatic logging in page history that's hard-wired into the MediaWiki software. There's {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} itself, which as we've said doesn't always promptly get applied (and can indeed be somewhat problematic when promptly applied). And finally, there's <a href="/wiki/Category:Redirects_from_moves" title="Category:Redirects from moves">Category:Redirects from moves</a>, which is populated by the template. I suppose reasonable people can disagree, but I believe this triple logging has some redundancy, and that's why I advocated trying to automate the application of R from move, or deprecating it altogether.</li></ul> <dl><dd>Ideally, I'd like to see an arrangement where redirect tagging somehow doesn't prevent moves over the redirect. I don't know how practical that is, but my suggestions at TfD would require a software update anyway. I don't know where that leaves us, but I think that's what it's going to take to make this situation more efficient. --<a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BDD" title="User talk:BDD">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-BDD-2013-10-03T15:18:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-09-23T08:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:18, 3 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-11" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've just submitted <a href="https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/87345" class="extiw" title="gerrit:87345">gerrit:87345</a>, which (once merged) will add <a href="/wiki/MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text" title="MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text">MediaWiki:move-redirect-text</a>. We will then be able to set that to <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}</code>, solving this problem the right way. <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jackmcbarn" title="User talk:Jackmcbarn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-03T15:22:00.000Z-BDD-2013-10-03T15:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:22, 3 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-12" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>FOGOOS! (Farm out, gravy and out of state!) – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-04T13:51:00.000Z-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-03T15:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:51, 4 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-13" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>That change was just merged today. It should be live here on October 17th at 20:00 UTC. <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jackmcbarn" title="User talk:Jackmcbarn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-04T15:01:00.000Z-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-03T15:22:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:01, 4 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-14" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a>, it's a good idea whose time apparently has come. The next step (dare I say it?) is to find a way to autotag redirects with the correct categorization(s) immediately after the redirects are created. Or at least automatically make them populate a <a href="/w/index.php?title=Category:Newly_created_redirects&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Category:Newly created redirects (page does not exist)">Category:Newly created redirects</a> so that gnomes like me can keep it emptied by applying the necessary Rcats. – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-04T13:40:00.000Z-BDD-2013-10-03T15:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:40, 4 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-15" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> I would like to make sure I understand. When <a href="https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/87345" class="extiw" title="gerrit:87345">gerrit:87345</a> goes live on October 17th, after that any time a page is moved, the redirect that is left behind will automatically be sorted into <a href="/wiki/Category:Redirects_from_moves" title="Category:Redirects from moves">Category:Redirects from moves</a> – is that correct? – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-06T17:08:00.000Z-Request_for_comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:08, 6 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-16" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>An admin will need to create page <a href="/wiki/MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text" title="MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text">MediaWiki:move-redirect-text</a> with content <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}</code> once the change goes live, but yes, after that they will. <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jackmcbarn" title="User talk:Jackmcbarn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-06T17:19:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-06T17:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:19, 6 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-17" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>That means that {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} will still be available for use on past moves that are not yet tagged. Now, my next question would be: Will the Redirects from moves category appear on the redirect page as a hidden category like it does at present? – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-06T19:07:00.000Z-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-06T17:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:07, 6 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-18" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Yes. It will behave exactly like redirects that are tagged with <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}</code> now do, because the wikicode will be exactly the same. <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jackmcbarn" title="User talk:Jackmcbarn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-06T20:31:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-06T19:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:31, 6 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-19" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Multiple awesomes and <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kudos" class="extiw" title="wikt:kudos">kudes</a>, Jackmcbarn! Thank you, thank you very much! – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-06T21:15:00.000Z-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-06T20:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:15, 6 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-20" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> To editor <a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a>: Did you plan to create <a href="/wiki/MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text" title="MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text">MediaWiki:move-redirect-text</a> with content <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}</code> when <a href="https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/87345" class="extiw" title="gerrit:87345">gerrit:87345</a> goes live today? – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-17T17:29:00.000Z-Request_for_comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:29, 17 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-21" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Huh? Sorry, I'm not sure I have the technical chops. If it's easy as inserting some text somewhere I can do the job, but otherwise it may be better left to someone who knows what he or she is doing. --<a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BDD" title="User talk:BDD">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-BDD-2013-10-17T18:00:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-17T17:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 17 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-22" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>No, no, no, that's okay... <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a> just mentioned that an admin would have to create that file, and I'm sorry, because I mistakenly assumed that you and any admin would have the "chops". Mybad, totally mybad. I'll ask over at VPT to see if we can find someone. I have an errand to run, so it will have to wait until I return. Chou! – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-17T19:28:00.000Z-BDD-2013-10-17T18:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 17 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-23" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>If it's simply a matter of protections and permissions, I'd be happy to carry it out. It's the how I'm not quite sure about. Is it just as simple as adding {{R from move}} at <a href="/wiki/MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text" title="MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text">MediaWiki:Move-redirect-text</a>? I just want to be certain about that, because I haven't done anything in that namespace before and I'm wary of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IDIOT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IDIOT">breaking something</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BDD" title="User talk:BDD">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-BDD-2013-10-17T19:57:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-17T19:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:57, 17 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-24" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I've submitted an edit request. And yes, it's that simple. <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jackmcbarn" title="User talk:Jackmcbarn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-18T02:50:00.000Z-BDD-2013-10-17T19:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:50, 18 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-25" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 18px;height: 18px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="18" data-height="18" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Done. To monitor, see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/move&dir=prev&offset=20131018084400">the move log from 08:44 on</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Redrose64" title="User:Redrose64">Redrose64</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Redrose64" title="User talk:Redrose64">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Redrose64-2013-10-18T08:46:00.000Z-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-18T02:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:46, 18 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-26" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd>Well, whaddya know - see <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kifisias_Avenue_station&redirect=no">Kifisias Avenue station</a> - it's got one line of history, and is categorised. --<a href="/wiki/User:Redrose64" title="User:Redrose64">Redrose64</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Redrose64" title="User talk:Redrose64">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Redrose64-2013-10-18T08:49:00.000Z-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-18T02:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:49, 18 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-27" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"></div> Excellent! Now to deal with the problem for which editors have blamed this Rcat. I will add something to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:REDIRECT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:REDIRECT">WP:REDIRECT</a> about the need for a brief wait period before the addition of other Rcats to ensure an easy revert of the move back to status quo if it is contested. All are welcome to make any needed fixes to what I add. Joys! – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-18T16:25:00.000Z-Request_for_comment" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:25, 18 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-28" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>Fantastic. Thanks all for your attention to this. --<a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:BDD" title="User talk:BDD">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-BDD-2013-10-18T16:51:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-18T16:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:51, 18 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-29" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>I think it is a rather bad idea to add language to prohibit editing redirects after a move, especially as there is little or no prospect of effectively enforcing such a prohibition. I think it is unreasonable to expect editors to keep track of pages they've moved and later go back and add appropriate redirect templates to the page. If a user is abusively moving pages and then editing the redirect to make moving back more difficult, that is a behavioral problem to address with that specific editor -- we should not be making rules that make editing more inconvenient for editors that are making good page moves and edits to add appropriate redirect templates. Besides, there are already multiple avenues by which an editor can request deletion of a redirect that is holding up a legitimate page move. <a href="/wiki/User:Bkonrad" title="User:Bkonrad">older</a> ≠ <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Bkonrad" title="User talk:Bkonrad">wiser</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Bkonrad-2013-10-18T18:58:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-18T16:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:58, 18 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-30" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I tend to agree with you, so it's all over but the shouting as far as I'm concerned. This gerrit is one of the best things I've seen happen on Wikipedia. Thank you <a href="/wiki/User:BDD" title="User:BDD">BDD</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Redrose64" title="User:Redrose64">Redrose64</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Vanisaac" title="User:Vanisaac">Van</a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Robertgreer" title="User:Robertgreer">Robert Greer</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Bkonrad" title="User:Bkonrad">older ≠ wiser</a> for your wisdoms throughout! Joys! – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-19T17:12:00.000Z-Bkonrad-2013-10-18T18:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:12, 19 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-31" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li> <li>By the way, for anyone who didn't see yet, discussion from here is spilling over into <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Redirect#Redirects_from_moves" title="Wikipedia talk:Redirect">Wikipedia talk:Redirect#Redirects from moves</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Jackmcbarn" title="User:Jackmcbarn">Jackmcbarn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jackmcbarn" title="User talk:Jackmcbarn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Jackmcbarn-2013-10-19T17:29:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2013-10-18T16:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:29, 19 October 2013 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-32" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(4)"><h2 id="Unclear_wording" data-mw-thread-id="h-Unclear_wording-2014-11-04T00:40:00.000Z">Unclear wording</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Unclear wording" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-114' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2014-11-20T07:18:00.000Z-SoledadKabocha-2014-11-17T01:54:00.000Z">10 years ago</a>3 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-4 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-4"> "This rcat automatically tags all redirects that result from page moves" is potentially ambiguous, in that some less-experienced users may see this template on one redirect and think MediaWiki automatically adds it retroactively to old moved titles (as opposed to the reality, where it must be added manually to any redirect moved before the software change discussed above). Is there anything we should do to clarify this wording? --<a href="/wiki/User:SoledadKabocha" title="User:SoledadKabocha">SoledadKabocha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SoledadKabocha" title="User talk:SoledadKabocha">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-SoledadKabocha-2014-11-04T00:40:00.000Z-Unclear_wording" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:40, 4 November 2014 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-33" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Suggested rewording: "This rcat template is automatically added to all redirects that result from page moves." If the active voice is really important, my best guess is, "The MediaWiki software automatically adds this rcat template to all redirects that result from page moves." - but I think that sounds wordy. --<a href="/wiki/User:SoledadKabocha" title="User:SoledadKabocha">SoledadKabocha</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:SoledadKabocha" title="User talk:SoledadKabocha">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-SoledadKabocha-2014-11-17T01:54:00.000Z-SoledadKabocha-2014-11-04T00:40:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:54, 17 November 2014 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-34" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Good catch, <a href="/wiki/User:SoledadKabocha" title="User:SoledadKabocha">SoledadKabocha</a>! The notice has been reworded and also "noincluded", so it no longer appears on redirects. – <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">CLIMAX!</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2014-11-20T07:18:00.000Z-SoledadKabocha-2014-11-17T01:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:18, 20 November 2014 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-35" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(5)"><h2 id="Capture_unsynched_talk_page_redirects" data-mw-thread-id="h-Capture_unsynched_talk_page_redirects-2015-10-21T16:29:00.000Z">Capture unsynched talk page redirects</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Capture unsynched talk page redirects" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-115' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T19:47:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T07:34:00.000Z">8 years ago</a>7 comments4 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-5 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-5"> <a href="/wiki/User:Mr._Stradivarius" title="User:Mr. Stradivarius">Mr. Stradivarius</a> – I have placed the following code in the <a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move/sandbox" title="Template:R from move/sandbox">sandbox</a> and would like your help to engage it in {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}: <pre>{{#ifexist: {{TALKPAGENAME}}|{{#switch: {{SUBPAGENAME}} |doc= |sandbox= |testcases= |#default={{#ifeq: {{PAGENAME:{{#invoke:redirect|main|{{TALKPAGENAME}}}}}}|{{PAGENAME:{{#invoke:redirect|main|{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}}}}} | |{{#ifeq: {{FULLPAGENAME}}|{{SUBJECTPAGENAME}} | |[[Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects]]}}}}}} </pre> The first part just ensures that a talk-page redirect exists after a page move. The switch keeps those three subpages out of the maintenance cat if they are the result of page moves and redirect to the main templates' pages. The next part compares the target of the talk page to the target of the subject page and, if the page names (excluding namespace) are the same, then nothing happens. If they are different/unsynched, then the rest of the code will place the talk page in <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a><a href="/wiki/User:Mr._Stradivarius" title="User:Mr. Stradivarius">.</a> <s>As you see, that cat doesn't exist yet, as I've found no better-named existing category, and you might want to suggest a better name for it.</s> This code will: <ul><li>ensure that talk pages are either synched to their subject pages following a page move, or placed in a maintenance category to be captured and fixed,</li> <li>capture all unsynched talk pages, past and future, that are tagged with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} (or, of course, the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Redr" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Redr">Redr</a>}} template with that rcat),</li> <li>maybe resolve some bugs, at least <a href="https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T12814" class="extiw" title="phab:T12814">phab:T12814</a> on the English Wikipedia,</li> <li>maybe lead to resolution of those bugs on other wikis,</li> <li>help <a href="/wiki/User:Jenks24" title="User:Jenks24">Jenks24</a> with the challenge mentioned on my <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth#Talk_page_rcats" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">talk page</a>.</li></ul> I have tested this code, and it appears to work well, so I would greatly appreciate it if you could take a look at it and maybe tweak it if needed (and then transfer the sandbox to the live template when ready). Pleasant pathways, <a href="/wiki/User:Painius" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Painius">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Painius-2015-10-21T16:29:00.000Z-Capture_unsynched_talk_page_redirects" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:29, 21 October 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-36" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Test redirects: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth/Sandbox" title="User:Paine Ellsworth/Sandbox">User:Paine Ellsworth/Sandbox</a></li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth/Sandbox&redirect=no">User talk:Paine Ellsworth/Sandbox</a></li> <li>Other redirects in other namespaces were tested on <kbd class="nowrap button" title="This is not a clickable button; it illustrates the button one should find." style="padding:.2em .6em; border:1px solid; border-color:var(--border-color-base, #a2a9b1) var(--border-color-interactive, #72777d) var(--border-color-interactive, #72777d) var(--border-color-base, #a2a9b1); border-radius:3px; background-color: #F2F2F2; color: inherit; background-image: linear-gradient(to bottom, var(--background-color-interactive-subtle, #f8f9fa), var(--background-color-interactive, #eaecf0)); font-family:sans-serif;">Show preview</kbd> only.</li></ul></dd> <dd>Pleasant pathways, <a href="/wiki/User:Painius" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Painius">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Painius-2015-10-23T02:17:00.000Z-Painius-2015-10-21T16:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:17, 23 October 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-37" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Edit_request_on_31_Oct_2015" data-mw-thread-id="h-Edit_request_on_31_Oct_2015-Capture_unsynched_talk_page_redirects-2015-10-31T08:36:00.000Z">Edit request on 31 Oct 2015</h3> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Edit request on 31 Oct 2015" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> </div> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="semi"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 30px;height: 30px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="30" data-height="30" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to no to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> Please see details above – the <a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move/sandbox" title="Template:R from move/sandbox">sandbox</a> is ready to be deployed to template {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}, which is now transcluded in a cascade-protected page, and can be edited only by administrators. <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-10-31T08:36:00.000Z-Edit_request_on_31_Oct_2015" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:36, 31 October 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-38" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I have fixed the protection. You should be able to edit it now. — Martin (<a href="/wiki/User:MSGJ" title="User:MSGJ">MSGJ</a> · <a href="/wiki/User_talk:MSGJ" title="User talk:MSGJ">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-MSGJ-2015-10-31T21:59:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-10-31T08:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:59, 31 October 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-39" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Thank you so much, Martin! I've deployed the sandbox code. Pleasant pathways, <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-10-31T23:11:00.000Z-MSGJ-2015-10-31T21:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:11, 31 October 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-40" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:MSGJ" title="User:MSGJ">Martin</a>: I noticed that this template is again cascade protected, so I'm unable to edit it. Can you tell me what the reasoning is, and why your protection fix was reverted? <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T07:34:00.000Z-MSGJ-2015-10-31T21:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:34, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-41" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>See <a href="#Page_protection_issue">§ Page protection issue</a> below. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T19:47:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T07:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:47, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-42" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(6)"><h2 id="Recent_addition_of_#ifexist_causing_trouble_at_Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked_misspellings" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recent_addition_of_#ifexist_causing_trouble_at_Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z">Recent addition of #ifexist causing trouble at Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Recent addition of #ifexist causing trouble at Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-116' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-01-22T21:28:00.000Z-Faceless_Enemy-2016-01-21T04:08:00.000Z">8 years ago</a>37 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-6 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-6"> <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a>, your <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AR_from_move&type=revision&diff=689458839&oldid=667632309">recent changes to this template</a> are causing spurious misspelling listings at <a href="/wiki/Special:PermanentLink/693636957" title="Special:PermanentLink/693636957">Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings</a>. Note item #13 on that list, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2013_Oklahoma_tornados&redirect=no">2013 Oklahoma tornados</a>. I was scratching my head over why that page was shown as a "linked misspelling" which was linking to itself, until I noticed <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2015_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Miscellaneous#Error_categorization_by_#ifexist_bug" class="extiw" title="m:2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Miscellaneous">m:2015 Community Wishlist Survey/Miscellaneous#Error categorization by #ifexist bug</a>. I confirmed that <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/694193096" title="Special:Diff/694193096">this edit</a> cleared the page from "what links here". So, until that Mediawiki bug is fixed, we need to fix all the pages that were {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}d to correct a misspelling by either removing the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} as I did, or reverting to the previous version of this template that didn't use #ifexist. – <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z-Recent_addition_of_#ifexist_causing_trouble_at_Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:32, 7 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-43" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>On the other hand, this bug is also flagging obvious typos which are unlikely search terms, such as <a href="/w/index.php?title=196%60_Soviet_Top_League&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="196` Soviet Top League (page does not exist)">196` Soviet Top League</a> (meant to be <a href="/wiki/1961_Soviet_Top_League" title="1961 Soviet Top League">1961 Soviet Top League</a>) and <a href="/w/index.php?title=2007_San_Fancisco_Zoo_tiger_attacks&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="2007 San Fancisco Zoo tiger attacks (page does not exist)">2007 San Fancisco Zoo tiger attacks</a>, so I'm just deleting those, as a better way to solve the problem. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T19:44:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:44, 7 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-44" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd>Sigh: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2014_October_13#36(movie)" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 October 13">Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2014 October 13 § 36(movie)</a>. "9 years old and <a href="/wiki/Mostly_Harmless" title="Mostly Harmless">Mostly Harmless</a>." Hey, a "keep" argument based on the title of a novel? So we need to keep around this typo because it lasted <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/25786193" title="Special:Diff/25786193">for 18 days in October 2005</a>? Could I move it to <a href="/wiki/36_(movie)" class="mw-redirect" title="36 (movie)">36 (movie)</a> without leaving behind a redirect? That would fix the "misspelling". Wait a minute, a missing space is not a misspelling, that's surely an {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_modification" title="Template:R from modification">R from modification</a>}}, right? <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T20:13:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:13, 7 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-45" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>No, no wait a minute. That redirects to <a href="/wiki/36_Quai_des_Orf%C3%A8vres_(film)" title="36 Quai des Orfèvres (film)">36 Quai des Orfèvres (film)</a> which is definitely more than just a simple modificaiton of <a href="/w/index.php?title=36(movie)&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="36(movie) (page does not exist)">36(movie)</a>. I'm just going to remove the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_misspelling" title="Template:R from misspelling">R from misspelling</a>}}. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T20:20:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T20:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:20, 7 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-46" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd>So, I've just removed {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} from <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.45_Remington-Thompson&redirect=no">.45 Remington-Thompson</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1080%C2%BA_Avalanche&redirect=no">1080º Avalanche</a>, the first two items on the linked misspellings list, and will wait for your response before I do any more, in case you would prefer to revert the addition of #ifexist to the template. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T20:39:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:39, 7 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-47" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>To editor <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a>: Workin' on it, boss. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T05:03:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T20:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:03, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-48" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Okay <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a>, I read the Phab page and now have a few questions/items for you. <ol><li>First, since you have removed the R from move template from the first two items on the Linked misspellings list, why are they still on the list? I thought that removing the move rcat from the redirect was supposed to remove those two from the list. Yet, they're still there on the list. Are they now supposed to be on the list? and no longer "spurious misspelling listings"?</li> <li>Next, the Item 13 redirect is not a misspelling according to <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tornado" class="extiw" title="wikt:tornado">Wikt:tornado</a>. Both "tornados" and "tornadoes" are correct plural forms, and the first form, "tornados", appears first, which usually means that it is the preferred plural form.</li> <li>"36(movie)", while not a "misspelling", is most certainly a "typo", and so should retain the R typo rcat. And yes, it should also be tagged as a modification, and {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_fod" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:R fod">R fod</a>}} + {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_up" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:R up">R up</a>}} as well. Since typos that are not misspellings are covered under the R from misspelling rcat, I will give some thought as to a better name for that rcat. {{<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:R_from_misspellings_and_other_typos&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:R from misspellings and other typos (page does not exist)">R from misspellings and other typos</a>}} springs to mind, but I'm sure we can do better than that.</li> <li>I'm not sure yet what to do about this, because the code in R from move that I added was to help corral unsynchronized talk page redirects, which just means that their subject page redirects don't target the same {{PAGENAME}} (without the namespaces) as the talk pages. I will see if the #ifexist: functions can be eliminated, but first glance tells me it will cause other complications. I'll scrutinize it and get back to you. We may want to consider just letting the devs work their magic on this one. Happy holidays! <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T07:02:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T20:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:02, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-49" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ol></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Almost forgot #5: Not sure if you're aware that the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Redr" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Redr">Redr</a>}} template has been modified to detect and tag protected redirects automatically. This should save some time for admins who change protection levels, because they will no longer need to be concerned about also adding/subtracting protection templates. Redr does it for them. You might want to consider using Redr rather than applying individual rcats to redirects. See also {{<a href="/wiki/Template:This_is_a_redirect/Comparison" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:This is a redirect/Comparison">This is a redirect/Comparison</a>}}. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T07:23:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T20:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:23, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-50" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>The beginning was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:R_from_move&diff=next&oldid=667632309">this edit</a>. I used the <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">{{#ifexist: {{TALKPAGENAME}}</code> function because I felt that it was necessary in order to determine if the balance of the new code was to be engaged. If a subject page was moved and the left-behind redirect had no talk page, then there was no need to engage the balance of the code; however, if the left-behind redirect had a talk page, then the balance of the code should be engaged. At this point what happened was that the new <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a> filled up quickly to more than 25,000 pages! The majority turned out to be talk-page archives that had no subject pages and are therefore unsynchronized (technically), so I added <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">{{#ifexist: {{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}</code> with <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:R_from_move&diff=next&oldid=688440364">this edit</a>. Entries began to drop out of the new category and stabilized at a more manageable number of < 8,000.</dd> <dd>After looking again at all this, frankly I'm not certain whether or not the <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">{{#ifexist: {{TALKPAGENAME}}</code> code is absolutely necessary. I used it initially because I thought it made sense to ensure that any redirect left behind from a page move had a talk page that would also be autotagged with <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Redr" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Redr">redr</a>|from move}}</code> in order to engage the rest of the new code in this rcat. On the other hand, the <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">{{#ifexist: {{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}</code> code was necessary to rid the new category of more than 17,000 talk-page redirects that had no subject pages. If that code is removed, then all those unwanted pages will again populate the new category. How to proceed? <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T08:51:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T20:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:51, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-51" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a>: Answering Q. #1, the list is bot-generated once a week, so they will remain on the list until the next weekly bot run. I confirmed the edit to remove {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} resolved it by checking "what links here"... that's what the bot does to generate its list. You may confirm this for yourself by looking at item #36 on the list, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Aarons_Rod&redirect=no">Aarons Rod</a>. Note that "what links here" says that it <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:WhatLinksHere&target=Aarons_Rod&namespace=0">links to itself</a>. Remove the <code> |move</code> and then check "what links here" again. Still reading the rest of your response. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T15:02:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T08:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:02, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-52" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Good catch on Q. #2. It was another editor who <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/597622021" title="Special:Diff/597622021">moved</a> page <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=2013_Oklahoma_tornados&redirect=no">2013 Oklahoma tornados</a> to <a href="/wiki/2013_Oklahoma_tornadoes" class="mw-disambig" title="2013 Oklahoma tornadoes">2013 Oklahoma tornadoes</a>, and then <a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/600030313" title="Special:Diff/600030313">tagged "tornados"</a> with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} and {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_misspelling" title="Template:R from misspelling">R from misspelling</a>}}. I just corrected that to {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_alternative_spelling" title="Template:R from alternative spelling">R from alternative spelling</a>}}. But this is peripheral to the main issue that we're discussing here. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T15:37:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T08:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-53" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Q. #3 relates to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Redirect#Redirects_from_incorrect_punctuation_%E2%80%93_how_to_tag?" title="Wikipedia talk:Redirect">Wikipedia talk:Redirect § Redirects from incorrect punctuation – how to tag?</a>. Perhaps {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_typo" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:R from typo">R from typo</a>}} (~ 440 transclusions) and {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_typo" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:R typo">R typo</a>}} (~ 520 transclusions) should be disambiguated between {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_misspelling" title="Template:R from misspelling">R from misspelling</a>}} and {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_incorrect_punctuation" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:R from incorrect punctuation">R from incorrect punctuation</a>}}. I would argue that a missing space before a parenthetical disambiguator should be tagged as a lower priority for correction than, e.g. a misspelling of Barack Obama's name (which happens almost every week at least once). <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T16:44:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T08:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:44, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-54" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Re: 36(movie) – I think that is a "pure" typo unrelated to either spelling or punctuation, since a space is just a modification and, in this case, a typing error. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T17:36:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T16:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:36, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-55" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>...then simply use {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_modification" title="Template:R from modification">R from modification</a>}}. {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_incorrect_punctuation" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:R from incorrect punctuation">R from incorrect punctuation</a>}} just redirects there, any way. "Pure" typo unrelated to anything specific are just vanilla modifications. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T17:59:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T17:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:59, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-56" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>...and yet, still "typos" and subject to categorization as typos, no? <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T19:06:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T17:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:06, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-57" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>We should resume this discussion later in a new section. Making a mental note to get back to this as a "tweak list" item. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-09T17:02:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T19:06:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 9 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-58" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Re: Q. #4: Excellent. <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a> is a super real-time replacement for <a href="/wiki/User:Mikaey/Broken_talk_pages" title="User:Mikaey/Broken talk pages">User:Mikaey/Broken talk pages</a> which lists talk pages which redirect elsewhere but have a non-redirecting subject page. That list, as you can see from <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Mikaey/Broken_talk_pages&action=history">its history</a>, is stale as it was last generated in August 2009. And, it seems that the only editor to work on that list in six years is me, starting earlier this year. I was wondering what you were up to, as you haven't yet updated <a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move/doc" title="Template:R from move/doc">Template:R from move/doc</a> to explain this new functionality. Just noting and confirming that <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Frumu%C5%9Fica&redirect=no">Talk:Frumuşica</a>, which is near the bottom of <a href="/wiki/User:Mikaey" title="User:Mikaey">Mikaey</a>'s list (I was working off the bottom of the <a href="/wiki/User:Mikaey/Broken_talk_pages" title="User:Mikaey/Broken talk pages">Broken talk pages</a> list), is now also categorized in <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a>. Yes, we need to find a solution that both keeps this new cat and doesn't clutter up the misspellings list. And, I'm thinking that, realistically, the only way that cat with over 7200 members get cleared is by a bot. I'll see if I can design a bot that can clear that category. I'm still reading the rest of your comments... <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T17:50:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T08:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:50, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-59" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I appreciate your wanting to find a bot solution, Wbm1058, and I would have asked you to do that since you've helped me out with bots in the past; however, I was holding off asking because I'm still analyzing the cat to see if there are any other types of unsynched talk page redirects that can be eliminated from the cat using this code. I've eliminated /doc, /sandbox, /testcases and, as previously noted, talk page archive pages, and there are probably more that can be allowed to be unsynched, so a bot solution at present is premature. Don't worry, because when I think the cat is ready for a bot, I'll let you know. Thank you very much, though, for thinking about that and for making the offer. Build the bot at your leisure, because it will be needed soon enough. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T18:11:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T17:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:11, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-60" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>OK, sure. Of course all the kinks will need to be ironed out before the gatekeepers at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:BRFA" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:BRFA">WP:BRFA</a> approve anything. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T18:43:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T18:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-61" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Two things should be mentioned while you're designing the bot: <ol><li>at present, the cat purposefully contains only mainspace talk-page redirects, and when those are dealt with, the plan is to tackle the few that are left in other namespaces.</li> <li>I'm finding that most of the entries in the cat are talk pages that need to be changed to sync to their subject pages; however, about 5–10% of the entries go the opposite direction, i.e., the subject pages need to be changed to sync to their talk pages. I don't know much about bots, but that might be tricky. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T19:15:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T18:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:15, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-62" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ol></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd>Re: #5: No, I didn't notice that as of 22 September 2014, {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Redr" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Redr">Redr</a>}} detects and tags protected redirects automatically. Another super enhancement. I should open a discussion about your overall redirect-tagging system sometime (there's things I'd like to tweak), but deferring on that for now, to focus on the problem at hand. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T18:43:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T08:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:43, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-63" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>I'll have to think some about the solution, just noting for the moment that #ifexist is an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:EXPENSIVE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:EXPENSIVE">WP:EXPENSIVE</a> parser function call, so using it should be avoided when possible. Going outside for a while, will come back to this later... <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T19:08:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:08, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-64" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Me2. Happy holidays! <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-08T19:28:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-08T19:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:28, 8 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-65" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>"<style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">The majority turned out to be talk-page archives that had no subject pages and are therefore unsynchronized (technically)</q>". Well, these should be fixed. Likely an article and its currrent talk page were moved, but the talk archives were left behind? If so, they should be reunited. Maybe, if there's a lot of these, we put them in a separate category. Happy holidays! to you, too! <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-09T17:02:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:02, 9 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-66" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li>No, they were removed from the category using code in this rcat precisely because they did not need to be fixed. After the talk page archives were moved, they left behind redirects to the new archive pages. Those redirects do not have subject pages, so they show up as unsynchronized redirects unless we stipulate in the code that talk-page redirects with no subject pages are to be ignored. That is done by use of the <code class="mw-highlight mw-highlight-lang-text mw-content-ltr" style="" dir="ltr">{{#ifexist: {{SUBJECTPAGENAME}}</code> function. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-10T02:38:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-09T17:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:38, 10 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-67" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul></dd></dl> <ul><li>I fixed <a href="/wiki/Talk:Frumu%C5%9Fica" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Frumuşica">Talk:Frumuşica</a> (mentioned above). This example shows how these can get complicated, when they're left alone unfixed for some time. A second move and even third may sometimes be made, before the first move has been corrected. It took three edits to fix everything: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Talk:Frumu%C8%99ica" title="Talk:Frumușica">Talk:Frumușica</a>: (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/694505806" title="Special:Diff/694505806">diff</a>, changing a redirect to a {{<a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Template:WikiProject Disambiguation">WikiProject Disambiguation</a>}} tag)</li> <li><a href="/wiki/Frumu%C8%99ica" class="mw-disambig" title="Frumușica">Frumușica</a>: (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/694506131" title="Special:Diff/694506131">diff</a>, peripherally related issue)</li> <li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Frumu%C5%9Fica&redirect=no">Talk:Frumuşica</a>: (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/694506773" title="Special:Diff/694506773">diff</a>, changing a redirect)</li></ul> <dl><dd>All those funny diacritical characters make our lives more difficult. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-09T18:46:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:46, 9 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-68" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><ul><li>I hope you realize that <a href="/wiki/Frumu%C5%9Fica" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Frumuşica">Frumuşica</a> and <a href="/wiki/Talk:Frumu%C5%9Fica" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Frumuşica">Talk:Frumuşica</a> are both misspellings, which is why they were renamed. I shall tag them appropriately. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-10T02:38:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-09T18:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:38, 10 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-69" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>So the only difference is the little squiggly below the s: "<a href="/wiki/%C5%9E" title="Ş">ş</a>" (S-cedilla) vs. "<a href="/wiki/%C8%98" title="Ș">ș</a>" (S-comma). Since we're disambiguating places in Romania and Moldova (which borders Romania), then the Romanian <a href="/wiki/S-comma" class="mw-redirect" title="S-comma">S-comma</a> is correct. I guess {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_diacritics" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:R from diacritics">R from diacritics</a>}} doesn't qualify here, so if we have incorrect diacritics, it's a spelling error and not a punctuation error. OK. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T13:30:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-10T02:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:30, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-70" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>So now <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked_misspellings" title="Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings">Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings</a> has had its weekly update, and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=.45_Remington-Thompson&redirect=no">.45 Remington-Thompson</a> & <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1080%C2%BA_Avalanche&redirect=no">1080º Avalanche</a> have fallen off the list. Now at the top is <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1998%E2%80%9399_Allied_Dunbar_Premership_Two&redirect=no">1998–99 Allied Dunbar Premership Two</a> (<a href="/wiki/Premiership" class="mw-disambig" title="Premiership">Premiership</a> is misspelled). I may play with the sandbox for a while and use this as my test-bed, to see if I can find any workarounds. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T14:11:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-71" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>Excellent! Just a gentle reminder as it's not really a big deal since there are still so many redirects from moves out there that have yet to be tagged as such; however, it is incumbent to keep in mind that those two that have "fallen off the list" still eventually need to be sorted to the <a href="/wiki/Category:Redirects_from_moves" title="Category:Redirects from moves">Redirects from moves</a> cat. Happy holidays! <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-11T18:38:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T14:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:38, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-72" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul></li></ul> <ul><li>Looking at what is currently flagged by <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a>, I see that the first one, <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:(148081)_1999_AW23&redirect=no">Talk:(148081) 1999 AW23</a>, which was moved Dec. 8 (3 days ago), was also flagged in the <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:DoubleRedirects&limit=1500">Special:DoubleRedirects</a> list. Right now, there's over 1,400 pages on that list, so the bots are perhaps not as efficient at fixing those as they could be. See <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Double_redirects" title="Wikipedia:Double redirects">WP:Double redirects</a>. It would be nice to either not categorize these, or categorize them separately. We shouldn't occupy ourselves with fixing them manually. I think I'll look into what bots are currently fixing these and how often they run, and whether some of these aren't getting fixed by bots. – <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T19:32:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-07T18:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-73" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Fresh_look_at_the_problem" data-mw-thread-id="h-Fresh_look_at_the_problem-Recent_addition_of_#ifexist_causing_trouble_at_Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked-2016-01-19T20:49:00.000Z">Fresh look at the problem</h3> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Fresh look at the problem" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> </div> <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a>, after a month away from this, I'm looking at it again. Noting that this template {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} is widely used on both mainspace (namespace 0) and talk pages (namespace 1), and we are looking to populate <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a>, shouldn't our first check be to see if we are on a talk page? If the first test is: <dl><dd>{{#ifeq: {{NAMESPACENUMBER}}|1</dd></dl> then if we are on namespace 0, we're done and thus no #ifexists are necessary when {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} is transcluded on mainspace redirects. That should keep <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/1080%C2%BA_Avalanche" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/1080º Avalanche">1080º Avalanche</a> from linking to itself and becoming a false-positive on the linked misspellings list. Then if we are on a talk page because the NAMESPACENUMBER=1 test was successful, then #ifexist: {{TALKPAGENAME}} becomes unnecessary. We know the TALKPAGENAME exists because we are on it right now... the fact that {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} is sitting on the talk page means it exists! Next I think you found that when we are on a subpage of a talk page (most often an archive), such as <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Hillary_Rodham_Clinton/Archive_25&redirect=no">Talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton/Archive 25</a>, we should not populate <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a>. Instead of checking to see whether the corresponding mainspace page exists, why not check to see if we are on a subpage, and if so, we're done, as we don't want to put any subpages in <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a>. – <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-01-19T20:49:00.000Z-Fresh_look_at_the_problem" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:49, 19 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-74" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Wanted to let you know that I received your notification. Let me see if I can put together some code that uses your suggestions to do the same job without the #ifexists functions. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-01-20T07:13:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2016-01-19T20:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:13, 20 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-75" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd>To editors <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> and <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Faceless_Enemy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Faceless Enemy (page does not exist)">Faceless Enemy</a>: The new code has been thoroughly tested and then engaged in the live template. This will hopefully correct the errors you noted. If not, let me know and we'll go from there. Wbm1058, your suggestions above were very helpful since we are restricting everything to mainspace talkpages. I also removed the switch temporarily, since I've never encountered NAMESPACE=1 subpages that were /doc, /sandbox or /testcases. I'll put that switch back in when we enter phase two and rid the other namespaces of unsynced talk pages. Thank you for finding this and for spurring me on to find a solution. Well, I sincerely hope it actually is a solution. Again, let me know if the code needs to be further massaged. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-01-20T17:29:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2016-01-19T20:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:29, 20 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-76" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Looks good so far. Thanks, <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-01-21T02:29:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-01-20T17:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:29, 21 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-77" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a>, that's great, thank you!!! <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Faceless_Enemy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Faceless Enemy (page does not exist)">Faceless Enemy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Faceless_Enemy" title="User talk:Faceless Enemy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Faceless_Enemy-2016-01-21T04:08:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-01-20T17:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:08, 21 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-78" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Good to hear, and I sympathize with the challenge, because the #ifexist function is found many places. Hopefully soon we will be able to stop with the bandaids and fix the source of the "bleeding". Be prosperous! <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-01-22T21:28:00.000Z-Faceless_Enemy-2016-01-21T04:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:28, 22 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-79" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(7)"><h2 id="Page_protection_issue" data-mw-thread-id="h-Page_protection_issue-2015-12-11T17:03:00.000Z">Page protection issue</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Page protection issue" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-117' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-12T23:35:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-12T03:00:00.000Z">8 years ago</a>8 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-7 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-7"> Hmm, I just noticed the red padlock on this template, and although the template itself is still just template-protected, I see the message: "WARNING: This page has been protected so that only administrators can edit it because it is transcluded in the following page (which is protected with the "cascading" option enabled). Please ensure that you are following the protection policy." <ul><li><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:New_admin/Protecting_deleted_pages/Transclusionist&redirect=no">Wikipedia:New admin/Protecting deleted pages/Transclusionist</a></li></ul> Since that page was moved at 16:49, 20 November 2015‎, it is now transcluding {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}. So because of this "cascading protection", I believe that you've been locked from editing {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} since November 20. Can you confirm that? From the history, I see that you last edited this template on November 7. Now, I go to that recently created {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} redirect, and clicking on the "Change protection" dropdown, I see: Change protection level for "Wikipedia:New admin/Protecting deleted pages/Transclusionist" <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1238441935">.mw-parser-output .fmbox{clear:both;margin:0.2em 0;width:100%;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;background-color:var(--background-color-interactive-subtle,#f8f9fa);box-sizing:border-box;color:var(--color-base,#202122)}.mw-parser-output .fmbox-warning{border:1px solid #bb7070;background-color:#ffdbdb}.mw-parser-output .fmbox-editnotice{background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .fmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .fmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .fmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .fmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .fmbox-warning{background-color:#300}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .fmbox-warning{background-color:#300}}</style><table class="fmbox fmbox-editnotice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-text">Please update the <a href="/wiki/Template:Protection_templates" title="Template:Protection templates">protection templates</a> on the page after changing the protection level. Note: If this page is protected due to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Office_actions" title="Wikipedia:Office actions">office actions</a>, do not unprotect it without proper authorization.</td></tr></tbody></table> and I see that the box for "Cascading protection (automatically protect any pages transcluded in this page)" is checked. Now, if you and other template editors want to be able to edit <a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">Template:R from move</a> again, I see two options: <ul><li>I can uncheck that box for cascading protection and click <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1249182868">.mw-parser-output .keyboard-key{border:1px solid #aaa;border-radius:0.2em;box-shadow:0.1em 0.1em 0.2em rgba(0,0,0,0.1);background-color:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa);background-image:linear-gradient(to bottom,var(--background-color-neutral,#eaecf0),var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa),var(--background-color-neutral,#eaecf0));color:var(--color-base,#202122);padding:0.1em 0.3em;font-family:inherit;font-size:0.85em}</style><kbd class="keyboard-key nowrap">Confirm</kbd> to change the protection level of <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:New_admin/Protecting_deleted_pages/Transclusionist&redirect=no">Wikipedia:New admin/Protecting deleted pages/Transclusionist</a></li> <li>I can just remove the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} from that recently created redirect-from move</li></ul> Not knowing the full implications of removing cascading protection there, I'm thinking that the second choice might be safer. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T17:03:00.000Z-Page_protection_issue" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:03, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-80" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Though on second thought, given what little <a href="/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:New_admin/Protecting_deleted_pages/Transclusionist" title="Special:WhatLinksHere/Wikipedia:New admin/Protecting deleted pages/Transclusionist">links to that page</a> and that the page it redirects/was moved to says "This is the page to practice transcluding protection with", it's probably safe for me to start practicing transcluding protection by unchecking that box ;) <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T17:39:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T17:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:39, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-81" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>It appears that (from my perspective) the project page that was recently moved is a protected page whether or not {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} tags it (there is no cascade protection mentioned on the edit page). Depopulation of a valid entry in a category should only be a very temporary bandaid and not a real "fix" of the deeper problem. Also, before you take this template off the cascade list, have a look at <a href="#Capture_unsynched_talk_page_redirects">this section above</a> and its ensuing edit request. It was cascade protected, then Martin took it off the cascade list, and I edited it a bit, then someone else put it back on the cascade list. I just don't want you to get in a bind over this. We'll figure it out. <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-11T19:00:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T17:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:00, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-82" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Oh, I see. You already noticed the problem 3 days ago. Sorry, I'm a greenhorn with this cascade-protection stuff. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T20:03:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-11T19:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:03, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-83" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> I think I found Martin's October 31 fix: <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User%3AChillum%2FSalt">HERE</a>. The offending page was <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Chillum/Salt&redirect=no">User:Chillum/Salt</a>. I suspect you were locked out between Sept. 21 and Oct. 31. Who knows why cascade was checked on that page, as Martin said in his edit summary, "cascading presumably not needed". This will likely be an ongoing problem as admins randomly move pages with the cascading option checked on. That option being turned on by any admin-protected page transcluding {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} is simply not compatible with template editors being able to edit the template. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T20:28:00.000Z-Page_protection_issue" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:28, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-84" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>It's sounds as if the cascade checkbox is checked by default? Its default should be "unchecked". <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-11T23:49:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-11T20:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:49, 11 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-85" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I don't know, but I'd be surprised if they were all checked by default. But, I was bold, and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:New_admin/Protecting_deleted_pages/Transclusionist&action=history">the padlock is pink again</a> :) <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2015-12-12T03:00:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-11T23:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:00, 12 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-86" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>Does that now make you a "<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Rouge_admin" title="Wikipedia:Rouge admin"><s>Rogue</s> Rouge admin</a>"? <abbr title="Smiling face" style="border-bottom: none;"><noscript><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/18px-Face-smile.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 18px;height: 18px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/18px-Face-smile.svg.png" data-width="18" data-height="18" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/27px-Face-smile.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Face-smile.svg/36px-Face-smile.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </abbr> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2015-12-12T23:35:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2015-12-12T03:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:35, 12 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-87" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(8)"><h2 id="Linking_to_self?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Linking_to_self?-2015-12-29T22:51:00.000Z">Linking to self?</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Linking to self?" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-118' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-01-01T21:41:00.000Z-Faceless_Enemy-2015-12-29T22:51:00.000Z">8 years ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-8 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-8"> For some reason, the {R from move} template has a link to itself. So the pages that are redirects from a move due to a misspelling show up at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked_misspellings" title="Wikipedia:Database reports/Linked misspellings">Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked_misspellings</a>. An example page is <a href="/wiki/1998%E2%80%9399_Allied_Dunbar_Premership_Two" class="mw-redirect" title="1998–99 Allied Dunbar Premership Two">1998–99 Allied Dunbar Premership Two</a>, which shows itself as the only namespace article that links to it (<a class="external autonumber" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3AWhatLinksHere&target=1998%E2%80%9399+Allied+Dunbar+Premership+Two&namespace=0">[1]</a>). Is there any way to make it so that this doesn't happen? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Faceless_Enemy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Faceless Enemy (page does not exist)">Faceless Enemy</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Faceless_Enemy" title="User talk:Faceless Enemy">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Faceless_Enemy-2015-12-29T22:51:00.000Z-Linking_to_self?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:51, 29 December 2015 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-88" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>To editor <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Faceless_Enemy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Faceless Enemy (page does not exist)">Faceless Enemy</a>: This is addressed <a href="#Recent_addition_of_#ifexist_causing_trouble_at_Wikipedia:Database_reports/Linked_misspellings">in this discussion above</a>. It has to do with a parser function, #ifexist, that has been added to help synchronize talk page redirects with their subject pages. There is no solution as yet. Happy New Year! <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-01-01T21:41:00.000Z-Faceless_Enemy-2015-12-29T22:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:41, 1 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-89" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(9)"><h2 id="Notes_towards_developing_a_system_to_fix_broken_/_unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" data-mw-thread-id="h-Notes_towards_developing_a_system_to_fix_broken_/_unsynchronized_talk_page_redir-2016-01-21T03:03:00.000Z">Notes towards developing a system to fix broken / unsynchronized talk page redirects</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Notes towards developing a system to fix broken / unsynchronized talk page redirects" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-119' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Wbm1058-2016-06-04T16:49:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-06-04T09:27:00.000Z">8 years ago</a>8 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-9 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-9"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/User:Mikaey/Broken_talk_pages" title="User:Mikaey/Broken talk pages">User:Mikaey/Broken talk pages</a> is not completely redundant to <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a> because some items in that list do not translcude {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}. The "broken talk pages" list was created by <a href="/wiki/User:AarghBot" title="User:AarghBot">a bot</a>. I used <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:AWB" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:AWB">WP:AWB</a> to sort that list into alpha order. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-01-21T03:03:00.000Z-Notes_towards_developing_a_system_to_fix_broken_/_unsynchronized_talk_page_redir" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:03, 21 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-90" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li> <li>A common scenario is where the talk page of a disambiguation page is a redirect which should be repaired by replacing the redirect with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Disambiguation" title="Template:WikiProject Disambiguation">WikiProject Disambiguation</a>}} (<a href="/wiki/Special:Diff/700861428" title="Special:Diff/700861428">like this</a>). I think that <a href="/wiki/Template:Disambiguation" class="mw-disambig" title="Template:Disambiguation">Template:Disambiguation</a> could be modified to populate a new <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_disambiguation_talk_pages" title="Category:Unsynchronized disambiguation talk pages">Category:Unsynchronized disambiguation talk pages</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-01-25T19:01:00.000Z-Notes_towards_developing_a_system_to_fix_broken_/_unsynchronized_talk_page_redir" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:01, 25 January 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-91" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I finally got around to implementing this. <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_disambiguation_talk_pages" title="Category:Unsynchronized disambiguation talk pages">Category:Unsynchronized disambiguation talk pages</a> is now in the process of being populated. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-05-04T19:26:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2016-01-25T19:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:26, 4 May 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-92" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Oh, my. <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_disambiguation_talk_pages" title="Category:Unsynchronized disambiguation talk pages">Category:Unsynchronized disambiguation talk pages</a> now has more members than <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a>. Time to get working on a bot; over 8,500 members in each. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-05-05T12:26:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2016-01-25T19:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:26, 5 May 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-93" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/Bot1058_3" title="Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Bot1058 3">BRFA filed</a>. – <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-05-18T20:46:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2016-05-05T12:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:46, 18 May 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-94" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>I look forward to see how well this works! <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CIV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CIV">OUR Wikipedia (not "mine")!</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-06-04T09:27:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2016-05-18T20:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:27, 4 June 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-95" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="18" height="18" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 18px;height: 18px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/18px-Yes_check.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="18" data-height="18" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/27px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/36px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Done – though I expect the category to repopulate steadily at a rate of several per week. I may try to automate periodic bot runs to re-clear it, but for now I'll attempt to develop a similar AWB "find & replace" that will clear <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a>. That may be a bit trickier. <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-06-04T16:49:00.000Z-Paine_Ellsworth-2016-06-04T09:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:49, 4 June 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-96" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li>Just noting another scenario I found at <a href="/wiki/User:Mikaey/Broken_talk_pages" title="User:Mikaey/Broken talk pages">User:Mikaey/Broken talk pages</a>. <a href="/wiki/Annandale" class="mw-disambig" title="Annandale">Annandale</a> is an article but <a href="/wiki/Talk:Annandale" title="Talk:Annandale">Talk:Annandale</a> is a redirect to <a href="/wiki/Talk:Annandale_(disambiguation)" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Annandale (disambiguation)">Talk:Annandale (disambiguation)</a>. There are no <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RCAT" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RCAT">WP:RCAT</a> templates on <a href="/wiki/Talk:Annandale" title="Talk:Annandale">Talk:Annandale</a>, so there is nothing there to latch onto for the purposes of populating an "unsynchronized talk page" category. However, in these scenarios the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Primary_topic" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Primary topic">WP:primary topic</a> page <a href="/wiki/Annandale" class="mw-disambig" title="Annandale">Annandale</a> should have a hatnote that we can use to populate such a category. In this case, it's {{<a href="/wiki/Template:Other_places" title="Template:Other places">other places</a>}}. – <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2016-05-05T13:38:00.000Z-Notes_towards_developing_a_system_to_fix_broken_/_unsynchronized_talk_page_redir" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:38, 5 May 2016 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-97" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(10)"><h2 id="Script_error" data-mw-thread-id="h-Script_error-2017-09-24T16:28:00.000Z">Script error</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Script error" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-120' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2018-01-21T02:12:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2018-01-20T22:15:00.000Z">6 years ago</a>4 comments3 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-10 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-10"> {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} on a page without a redirect can generate <a href="/wiki/Category:Pages_with_script_errors" title="Category:Pages with script errors">Category:Pages with script errors</a>. It was reported at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_159#Category:Pages_with_script_errors_being_flooded_with_errors" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 159">Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Category:Pages with script errors being flooded with errors</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:PrimeHunter" title="User:PrimeHunter">PrimeHunter</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PrimeHunter" title="User talk:PrimeHunter">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-PrimeHunter-2017-09-24T16:28:00.000Z-Script_error" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 24 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-98" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>@<a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a>: Did you notice this problem report? Noting that <a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move/except" title="Template:R from move/except">Template:R from move/except</a> was created at 22:52, 26 September 2017‎, just a couple of days after the problem was reported on the village pump. I was looking at recent changes to the template because <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a> always seems to be empty every time I check it, and I was wondering why. – <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">wbm1058</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wbm1058" title="User talk:Wbm1058">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Wbm1058-2018-01-20T22:15:00.000Z-PrimeHunter-2017-09-24T16:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 20 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-99" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd>To editors <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:PrimeHunter" title="User:PrimeHunter">PrimeHunter</a>: wish I could say yes, but no, I didn't catch that report. You're right, though. Something is amiss. I promise to check into it anon verisimo. <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">put'r there</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2018-01-20T22:34:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2018-01-20T22:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:34, 20 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>To editors <a href="/wiki/User:Wbm1058" title="User:Wbm1058">Wbm1058</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:PrimeHunter" title="User:PrimeHunter">PrimeHunter</a>: as you say, the exception subpage template was not added until two days after the script error was reported at the VPT, and the last edit to R from move before that was August of 2016. So there does not seem to be reason to suspect this template. However... I took a close look at the /except code and found that I had a brain hiccup when I added the most recent exception. I just fixed the code, so the <a href="/wiki/Category:Unsynchronized_talk_page_redirects" title="Category:Unsynchronized talk page redirects">Unsynchronized talk page redirects</a> category should start filling again. Happy New Year to you and yours! <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine Ellsworth</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">put'r there</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-2018-01-21T02:12:00.000Z-Wbm1058-2018-01-20T22:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:12, 21 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-101" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(11)"><h2 id="Template-protected_edit_request_on_23_June_2020" data-mw-thread-id="h-Template-protected_edit_request_on_23_June_2020-2020-06-23T13:29:00.000Z">Template-protected edit request on 23 June 2020</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Template-protected edit request on 23 June 2020" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-121' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Pppery-2020-06-23T14:13:00.000Z-JulianJorns-2020-06-23T13:29:00.000Z">4 years ago</a>2 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-11 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-11"> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox mbox-small tmbox-notice editrequest" role="presentation" data-origlevel="template"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 30px;height: 30px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/30px-Information_icon4.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="30" data-height="30" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/45px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/60px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </td><td class="mbox-text">This <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Edit_requests" title="Wikipedia:Edit requests">edit request</a> has been answered. Set the <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|answered=</code> or <code style="white-space: nowrap;">|ans=</code> parameter to no to reactivate your request.</td></tr></tbody></table> Change "Swisslog Holding" to "Swisslog", as this is the correct name of the company <a href="/wiki/User:JulianJorns" title="User:JulianJorns">JulianJorns</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:JulianJorns" title="User talk:JulianJorns">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-JulianJorns-2020-06-23T13:29:00.000Z-Template-protected_edit_request_on_23_June_2020" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:29, 23 June 2020 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-102" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <dl><dd><noscript><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/20px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="62" data-file-height="62"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 20px;height: 20px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/20px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png" data-alt="" data-width="20" data-height="20" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/30px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1f/Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg/40px-Red_information_icon_with_gradient_background.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element">  Not done: this is the <a href="/wiki/Help:Talk_pages" title="Help:Talk pages">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Help:Template" title="Help:Template">template</a> <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}}</code>. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned. <a href="/wiki/User:Pppery" title="User:Pppery">* Pppery *</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pppery" title="User talk:Pppery">it has begun...</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Pppery-2020-06-23T14:13:00.000Z-JulianJorns-2020-06-23T13:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:13, 23 June 2020 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-103" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(12)"><h2 id="Recent_revert_21_July_2022" data-mw-thread-id="h-Recent_revert_21_July_2022-20220721185500">Recent revert 21 July 2022</h2> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:R_from_move&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Recent revert 21 July 2022" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> edit </a> <span id='ooui-php-122' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'></a><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata">Latest comment: <a href="#c-Paine_Ellsworth-20220722163200-Steel1943-20220722135500">2 years ago</a>7 comments2 people in discussion</div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-12 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-12"> To editor <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)">Steel1943</a>: Hey-de-hay, Steelman! <pre> |from=a page that has been moved (renamed) or is the result of a page move |info=One reason this page was kept as a redirect is to avoid breaking links, both internal and external, that may have been made to the old page name. Any redirect with a page move logged on its history page should be tagged with this rcat template. </pre> Just added text to clarify the usage of this rcat template. Done this thousands of times to this and other rcats. You say "this wording addition needs discussion since it wasn't discussed and I don't agree with it". What exactly seems off the mark to you? <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">P.I. Ellsworth</a> , <a href="/wiki/Editor" class="mw-redirect" title="Editor">ed.</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">put'r there</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-20220721185500-Recent_revert_21_July_2022" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:55, 21 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-104" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>Hello to you too <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">Paine</a>! Good to hear from you as well! Anyways, down to the point here ... I don't agree with that wording if the target of the {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} is not the same target (or the eventual location of that target via additional page moves) as where the content was moved. For example, let's say I move "Apple" to "Green apple", then I retarget "Apple" to "Orange": In that case, I would not believe that {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} should apply since the target was changed to a different subject. Hope that explains my issue with the wording. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)">Steel1943</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Steel1943-20220721204000-Paine_Ellsworth-20220721185500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:40, 21 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-105" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>In your example, when you moved Apple to Green apple, was not the Apple redirect a redirect from a page move no matter what it eventually targets? Yes, of course it was. That is one reason an editor was confused and asked me for clarification. Whenever a page is moved (or merged for that matter), if it becomes a redirect then it is an R from move (or merge) for the life of the redirect no matter what the eventual targets become. <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">P.I. Ellsworth</a> , <a href="/wiki/Editor" class="mw-redirect" title="Editor">ed.</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">put'r there</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-20220721204700-Steel1943-20220721204000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:47, 21 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-106" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>I understand what you mean, but I don't agree with it applying to this template/rcat for the reasons I stated. If this needs to be categorized, maybe a new rcat should be created, like {{<a href="/w/index.php?title=Template:R_from_previous_move&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Template:R from previous move (page does not exist)">R from previous move</a>}} while clarifying the difference between the two rcats? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)">Steel1943</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Steel1943-20220721213000-Paine_Ellsworth-20220721204700" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:30, 21 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-107" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>Well, I guess we don't agree then, either on the application or the need for a sub-rcat template. Let's say you moved Apple to Green apple and left the Apple redirect to target the new name. We agree at least that the Apple redirect should then be categorized into <a href="/wiki/Category:Redirects_from_moves" title="Category:Redirects from moves">Category:Redirects from moves</a>. Five years from now another editor retargets Apple to Orange, or Fruit, something else. Is that editor then expected to REMOVE the redirect from the main redirects-from-moves category and put it somewhere else? That's just not logical. Apple is still a redirect that resulted five years ago from a page move. It should continue to stay in the Redirects from moves category. For me, that's the only way it makes any sense. Anything else yields an erroneous count in the category. <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">P.I. Ellsworth</a> , <a href="/wiki/Editor" class="mw-redirect" title="Editor">ed.</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">put'r there</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-20220722002100-Steel1943-20220721213000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:21, 22 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-108" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>I do agree that we are disagreeing here. 😅 However, in regards to "<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Is [the] editor then expected to REMOVE the redirect from the main redirects-from-moves category and put it somewhere else?</q>": Well ... with the exception of the "somewhere else" part (since to my knowledge, such an rcat doesn't exist yet), that's what I've been doing for a few years now, so it makes sense to me. I'd say it's akin to other situations where an rcat is changed on a redirect after the redirect's target has changed, such as when a redirect tagged with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_unnecessary_disambiguation" title="Template:R from unnecessary disambiguation">R from unnecessary disambiguation</a>}} gets retargeted to a disambiguation page and gets recategorized with {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_incomplete_disambiguation" title="Template:R from incomplete disambiguation">R from incomplete disambiguation</a>}} after its disambiguator becomes ambiguous. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Steel1943&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Steel1943 (page does not exist)">Steel1943</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Steel1943" title="User talk:Steel1943">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Steel1943-20220722135500-Paine_Ellsworth-20220722002100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:55, 22 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-109" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a> <ul><li>That last part makes sense; I do it all the time when I find them (most other editors seldom think to make the needed changes). The bottom line is that a redirect that results from a page move is a {{<a href="/wiki/Template:R_from_move" title="Template:R from move">R from move</a>}} for the remainder of its existence. It's like a branding iron, and its mark never goes away. <a href="/wiki/User:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User:Paine Ellsworth">P.I. Ellsworth</a> , <a href="/wiki/Editor" class="mw-redirect" title="Editor">ed.</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Paine_Ellsworth" title="User talk:Paine Ellsworth">put'r there</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:R_from_move#c-Paine_Ellsworth-20220722163200-Steel1943-20220722135500" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:32, 22 July 2022 (UTC)</a><span id="ooui-php-110" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button">Reply</a></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul>    </section></div> <noscript><img 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