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style="text-align:center;margin:0 auto 0.5em;max-width:50em;width:100%;width:-moz-available;width:-webkit-fill-available;width:stretch"><tbody><tr><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_1" title="Talk:Arrowverse/Archive 1">Archive 1</a></td><td>←</td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_5" title="Talk:Arrowverse/Archive 5">Archive 5</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_6" title="Talk:Arrowverse/Archive 6">Archive 6</a></td><td><span style="font-size:115%;"><a class="mw-selflink selflink">Archive 7</a></span></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_8" title="Talk:Arrowverse/Archive 8">Archive 8</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_9" title="Talk:Arrowverse/Archive 9">Archive 9</a></td><td><a href="/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_10" title="Talk:Arrowverse/Archive 10">Archive 10</a></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Supergirl" data-mw-thread-id="h-Supergirl-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Supergirl-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z"></span>Supergirl<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Supergirl-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z"></span></h2><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #EDEAFF; padding: 0px 10px 0px 10px; border: 1px solid #8779DD;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Scream4man-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1224211176">.mw-parser-output .quotebox{background-color:#F9F9F9;border:1px solid #aaa;box-sizing:border-box;padding:10px;font-size:88%;max-width:100%}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatleft{margin:.5em 1.4em .8em 0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatright{margin:.5em 0 .8em 1.4em}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.centered{overflow:hidden;position:relative;margin:.5em auto .8em auto}.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatleft span,.mw-parser-output .quotebox.floatright span{font-style:inherit}.mw-parser-output .quotebox>blockquote{margin:0;padding:0;border-left:0;font-family:inherit;font-size:inherit}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-title{text-align:center;font-size:110%;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote>:first-child{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote:last-child>:last-child{margin-bottom:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote.quoted:before{font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:large;color:gray;content:" “ ";vertical-align:-45%;line-height:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox-quote.quoted:after{font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;font-weight:bold;font-size:large;color:gray;content:" ” ";line-height:0}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .left-aligned{text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .right-aligned{text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .center-aligned{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .quotebox .quote-title,.mw-parser-output .quotebox .quotebox-quote{display:block}.mw-parser-output .quotebox cite{display:block;font-style:normal}@media screen and (max-width:640px){.mw-parser-output .quotebox{width:100%!important;margin:0 0 .8em!important;float:none!important}}</style><div class="quotebox pullquote floatright" style="width:30%; ;"> <blockquote class="quotebox-quote left-aligned" style=""><p> See the RfC close <a href="#Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?">below</a>.</p><p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Cunard&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Cunard (page does not exist)">Cunard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cunard" title="User talk:Cunard">talk</a>) 06:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC) </p></blockquote> </div> <dl><dd><i>The following discussion is closed. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl> <hr/> <p>I'd say after the recent casual crossovers (Eve popping up on the Flash, Supergirl appearing in the four way crossover, the whole Duet thing) that Supergirl is an official part of the Arrowverse. Why are we still considering it an "other"? <a href="/wiki/User:Scream4man" title="User:Scream4man">Scream4man</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Scream4man" title="User talk:Scream4man">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Scream4man-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z-Supergirl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:19, 25 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Scream4man-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Scream4man-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kailash29792-2017-05-25T06:17:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z"></span>Because "Arrowverse" refers only to Earth-1. Hope that solves your doubts. --<span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus"><a href="/wiki/User:Kailash29792" title="User:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;"><b>Kailash29792</b></span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kailash29792" title="User talk:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;">(talk)</span></a> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Kailash29792-2017-05-25T06:17:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:17, 25 May 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kailash29792-2017-05-25T06:17:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kailash29792-2017-05-25T06:17:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-05-25T05:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jester66-2017-07-26T20:12:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-05-25T06:17:00.000Z"></span>But what about <i>Freedom Fighters: The Ray</i> taking place on Earth-X? <a href="/wiki/User:Jester66" title="User:Jester66">Jester66</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jester66" title="User talk:Jester66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jester66-2017-07-26T20:12:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-05-25T06:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:12, 26 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jester66-2017-07-26T20:12:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-05-25T06:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jester66-2017-07-26T20:12:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-05-25T06:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-26T23:20:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-26T20:12:00.000Z"></span>Because it's not about Earth-1 or Earth-X or whatever. It's about franchises. Unless Supergirl is included in the Arrowverse franchise by the franchise runners, it's not part of the franchise. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-07-26T23:20:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-26T20:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:20, 26 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-26T23:20:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-26T20:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-26T23:20:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-26T20:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jester66-2017-07-28T20:48:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-26T23:20:00.000Z"></span>But isn't she now part of the "franchise" since last year due to the crossovers, the Supergirl character part of the Freedom Fighters show and having her universe be classified as Earth-38 in the Arrowverse? Or is this exclusion because the show didn't originate on The CW? <a href="/wiki/User:Jester66" title="User:Jester66">Jester66</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jester66" title="User talk:Jester66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jester66-2017-07-28T20:48:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-26T23:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:48, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jester66-2017-07-28T20:48:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-26T23:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jester66-2017-07-28T20:48:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-26T23:20:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:00:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-28T20:48:00.000Z"></span>1) Lots of different franchises have crossover. That doesn't mean that we combine the two franchises. (See DC vs Marvel of the 90s.) 2) The powers that be specifically said that Supergirl won't be part of the Arrowverse. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:00:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-28T20:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:00, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:00:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-28T20:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:00:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-28T20:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jester66-2017-07-28T21:13:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:00:00.000Z"></span>The whole DC/Marvel thing is a separate issue from Supergirl and the relationship to the other shows on the CW. Didn't the interview say that Supergirl's Earth won't combine with Earth-1? <a href="/wiki/User:Jester66" title="User:Jester66">Jester66</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jester66" title="User talk:Jester66">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jester66-2017-07-28T21:13:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:13, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jester66-2017-07-28T21:13:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:00:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jester66-2017-07-28T21:13:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:00:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-28T21:13:00.000Z"></span>It's not an separate issue because <i>it happens all the time</i>. See Bones/Sleepy Hollow crossover. Simpsons/Family Guy crossover. Mister Rogers/Captain Kangaroo. Also, they said the <i>show</i> won't be integrated into the Arrowverse. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-28T21:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:21, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-28T21:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z-Jester66-2017-07-28T21:13:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:27:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z"></span>Those are incorrect examples to cite. And it doesn't matter what the creators may or may not have said at one time or another. What matters is how reliable source we can find report on these shows. See below. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:27:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:27, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:27:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:27:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span>Also, when reliable sources talk Supergirl, they often talk of the show as being part of the Arrowverse: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/22/arrow-flash-legends-supergirl-comic-con-trailers/">1</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/11/comic-con-arrow-flash-supergirl-legends-tomorrow-panels/">2</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://fanfest.com/2017/07/12/which-arrowverse-show-do-you-think-has-the-highest-imdb-ranking/">3</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1676820/how-the-cws-4-arrow-verse-shows-actually-compare-in-popularity">4</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.inverse.com/article/34521-black-lightning-arrowverse-trailer-comic-con">5</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/05/arrowverse-heads-back-to-work-in-behind-the-scenes-photos-videos/">6</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/07/21/dctv-shows-us-where-the-arrowverse-heroes-come-from/">7</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://www.inverse.com/article/33856-arrow-flash-legends-of-tomorrow-supergirl-cw-crossover-2017">8</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1681839/why-all-the-arrow-verse-tv-shows-will-be-darker-than-every-going-into-the-new-seasons?story_page=3">9</a>, <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://screenrant.com/the-ray-trailer-arrowverse-animated-series/">10</a>. That's just a more or less random sampling of some of the more recent news stories. Each one references Supergirl as part of the Arrowverse. Wikipedia has to go by what most reliable sources claim, and it's obvious to everyone that Supergirl is seen as part of the Arrowverse family of shows. It may take place in a different fictional universe, but it's part of the same franchise. It's on the same channel, most of the creative team is the same. There have been crossovers and will be next season. I do not understand how Supergirl can be considered in any way distinctly different from the Arrowverse (Arrow, The Flash, Legends). <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z-Supergirl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:21, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z"></span>Only two of those sources actually say that the show is part of the Arrowverse. The others just talk about the shows on the CW. At the moment, it's still fringe, and it's also contradicted by the primary source, the producers. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:28, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:21:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:29:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z"></span>@Jmj713. How are they incorrect examples to cite?--they're examples of TV shows that have had crossovers. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:29:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:29, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:29:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:29:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:32:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z"></span>Please read the ten cited articles carefully. I chose them each specifically because they talked about Supergirl in the overall context of the Arrowverse. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:32:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:32, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:32:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:32:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:33:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:32:00.000Z"></span>Please quote the text in each article that supports your claim. I only found it in two, and maybe three of them (on the fence on that last one). <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:33:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:32:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:33, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:33:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:32:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:33:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:32:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:43:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:33:00.000Z"></span>With pleasure. Going in order, #1: <b>Arrowverse: 4 biggest moments from the new Comic-Con trailers</b> talks about the Supergirl trailer. #2: <b>Comic-Con: Everything you need to know before the Arrow-verse panels</b> talks about the Supergirl panel. #3: <b>Which Arrowverse Show Do You Think Has the Highest IMDB Ranking?</b> starts off with Supergirl. #4: <b>How The CW's 4 Arrow-verse Shows Actually Compare In Popularity</b> has Supergirl in second place. #5: <b>Black Lightning Leads the Arrowverse in Comic-Con Trailer</b> end with the sentence "The Arrowverse returns to the CW with new episodes, beginning with Supergirl on Monday, October 9." #6: <b>Arrowverse heads back to work in behind-the-scenes photos, videos</b> contains posts from Supergirl cast. #7: <b>DCTV Shows Us Where The Arrowverse Heroes Come From</b> starts off with "featuring the characters of the Arrowverse (Supergirl, The Flash, Arrow, Legends of Tomorrow)". #8: <b>The Next Arrowverse Crossover Will Be More Emotional</b> again ends with the note "The Arrowverse will return this October, when Supergirl Season 3 premieres on October 9 at 8 p.m. Eastern." #9: <b>Why All The Arrow-verse TV Shows Will Be Darker Than Ever Going Into The New Seasons</b> contains a slide on Supergirl. #10: <b>Freedom Fighters: The Ray Trailer – Animation From Arrowverse Creators</b> states that "With the premiere of Black Lightning next year, the Arrowverse will contain five live-action series". I can find more. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:43:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:43, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:43:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:43:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:49:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:43:00.000Z"></span>Oops on my part, just read the articles. (Sometimes titles can be misleading, though). I'm going to have to say that I'm on the fence on this one. If you can gain a consensus that these, and other sources, are enough then go right ahead. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:49:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:49, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:49:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:43:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:49:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T21:43:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:02:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:49:00.000Z"></span>We'll see what others might say but it's pretty cut and dry, especially now going into this new season. I would be surprised to see much if any coverage where Supergirl is explicitly stated as not being part of the Arrowverse. If there aren't any specific objections, taking the above into account, I might rearrange the article in a few days, unless someone else does it before me. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:02:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:02, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:02:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:02:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-07-28T21:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-28T22:07:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:02:00.000Z"></span>Supergirl</i> is often broadly lumped in with the Arrowverse, as these sources clearly show, but it is not actually set in the Arrowverse and this is made clear whenever anyone actually gets into the nitpicky details of each show. That is why we don't state that <i>Supergirl</i> is set in the Arrowverse, since that would be false, but we do incude it in the article and discuss the way it crosses over with the other shows. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-28T22:07:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-28T22:07:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:02:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-28T22:07:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:02:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:50:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-28T22:07:00.000Z"></span>Could you elaborate and clarify how exactly Supergirl is not set in the Arrowverse? Does she need to appear on Arrow and The Flash every other episode? She's on another Earth. But it's still very clearly within the same overarching universe. And again, Wikipedian policy states we have to follow what reliable sources say. You may think it's "lumping", but most sources I am seeing are quite specific when talking about the Arrowverse and they're including Supergirl. Both in-universe and in the real world it is part of the universe. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:50:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-28T22:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:50, 28 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:50:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-28T22:07:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:50:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-28T22:07:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T00:33:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:50:00.000Z"></span>The producers have been very clear, both in interviews and in the shows themselves, that there is a wider multiverse that includes all these shows, the other DC shows, and even the DCEU, existing in different universes within that multiverse, and one of those universes is the Arrowverse. It is called "Earth-1" in the shows, and that is the universe shared by <i>Arrow</i>, <i>The Flash</i>, <i>Legends of Tomorrow</i>, and <i>Vixen</i>. From the Arrowverse the characters can travel to other universes within the multiverse, whether it is Earth-2, Earth-19, Earth-38 (<i>Supergirl</i><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.1em;">'</span>s universe), or this new Earth-X that we are hearing about for <i>The Ray</i>. So obviously there are crossovers between the Arrowvers and <i>Supergirl</i>, characters have travelled between the two, and we discuss those here. But saying that <i>Supergirl</i> is set in the same universe as the other shows when it is clearly not, and when the producers have specifically stated that they do not want to do that at this time, is just lying for no good reason. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T00:33:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:33, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T00:33:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T00:33:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-28T22:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T02:25:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T00:33:00.000Z"></span>You don't need to make it that complicated. We are talking about all these shows which are all part of a single fictional universe. Just because something takes place on a different Earth within it doesn't make it outside the overall Arroverse. If they decided to make a spin-off of The Flash based solely on Earth-2, but with intermittent crossovers wouldn't it still be part of the Arrowverse? Of course. And again, just a quick Google search will reveal dozens of articles when it is explicitly stated that the Arrowverse consists of four main shows: Arrow, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, and Supergirl. There's no gray area here, it's clear. And Wikipedia policy tells us to follow what reliable sources, which are independent and verifiable, say about the subject, not primary sources (the subject itself or the subject's creators). You are only taking into consideration in-universe logic, which is flawed anyway, but okay, but this is a general encyclopedia, not a DC Wikia. We have to consider what the real world understands when they think "Arroweverse". And independent reliable sources overwhelmingly confirm Supergirl is part of the Arroweverse. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T02:25:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T00:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:25, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T02:25:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T00:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T02:25:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T00:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Favre1fan93-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T02:25:00.000Z"></span>It does need to be made that complicated. As adamstom97 greatly explained, the "Arrowverse" universe is not the same as the multiverse for which all these shows inhabit. The universe started with <i>Arrow</i> and slowly expanded to <i>Flash</i> and <i>Legends</i>. These series eventually were coined the "Arrowverse" (as we have sourced in the article). Then, CBS decides to make <i>Supergirl</i>, which the producers said was <b>not</b> part of the Arrowverse. The first season then established it took place on an alternate earth, existing in the multiverse of the Arrowverse. Once the series moved to The CW, it stayed on this earth and did not move to the Arrowverse. The key to all of this is, as has been confirmed by those related to the series, the term refers to a single universe (Earth-1), <b>not</b> the greater mulitverse in which it inhabits. At least at the time of this comment, that is not the case. - <a href="/wiki/User:Favre1fan93" title="User:Favre1fan93">Favre1fan93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Favre1fan93" title="User talk:Favre1fan93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Favre1fan93-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T02:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Favre1fan93-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T02:25:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Favre1fan93-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T02:25:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:21:00.000Z-Favre1fan93-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z"></span>But again you're treating this in-universe. In reality Supergirl is part of the Arroverse family of shows as I displayed above. The creators may not want to ever place Supergirl in Earth-1 for creative reasons but that's irrelevant to the franchise they've created. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:21:00.000Z-Favre1fan93-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:21, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:21:00.000Z-Favre1fan93-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:21:00.000Z-Favre1fan93-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span>Read more here: <a href="/wiki/MOS:INUNIVERSE" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:INUNIVERSE">MOS:INUNIVERSE</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z-Supergirl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:12, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kailash29792-2017-07-29T03:17:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z"></span>In some places it's better to use independent sources over primary ones (e.g.: box office figures), but not cases like this. There's <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/24/riverdale-afterlife-archie-zombies-cw/">this interview</a> where <i><a href="/wiki/Riverdale_(2017_TV_series)" class="mw-redirect" title="Riverdale (2017 TV series)">Riverdale</a></i> showrunner <a href="/wiki/Roberto_Aguirre-Sacasa" title="Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa">Roberto Aguirre-Sacasa</a> says, "you know how there’s the Arrow-verse and then there’s <i>Supergirl</i>, which kind of exists in a different universe — they still cross over, but they’re in a different universe". I'm not saying use this source, but I'm sure The CW/Arrowverse EPs told him this. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus"><a href="/wiki/User:Kailash29792" title="User:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;"><b>Kailash29792</b></span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kailash29792" title="User talk:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;">(talk)</span></a> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Kailash29792-2017-07-29T03:17:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kailash29792-2017-07-29T03:17:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kailash29792-2017-07-29T03:17:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T03:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:16:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-07-29T03:17:00.000Z"></span>For every source you find that says <i>Supergirl</i> is part of the Arrowverse, you will find one that contradicts that, especially those of last summer when <i>Supergirl</i> moved to The CW (now it seems many have forgotten what the producers said and what they have reported in the past): <b>"The Flash, Arrow and DC's Legends of Tomorrow all exist in the same universe, while Supergirl resides in a different part of the multiverse on Earth-38."</b><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://ca.ign.com/articles/2016/12/02/how-supergirl-will-be-involved-in-the-arrowverse-after-the-crossover">[1]</a>, <b>"the upcoming four-show crossover will merely involve Supergirl traveling to the dimension of the Arrowverse.</b> Many fans (including yours truly) had speculated that one of the side effects of The Flash‘s season 3 Flashpoint event would be a merging of the <b>two universes</b>, but apparently that’s not the case."<a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.themarysue.com/supergirl-not-part-of-arrowverse/">[2]</a>, and from EP Andrew Kreisberg <b>"Not for her entire world, but Kara will be traveling from her dimension to our dimension, ‘our’ being the world that ‘The Flash,’ ‘Arrow’ and ‘Legends’ lives in."</b><a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.cbr.com/supergirls-world-wont-merge-with-arrowverse/">[3]</a></dd> <dd>But it's pretty clear from the producers and the initial reliable sources that the Arrowverse only refers to the Earth-1 universe for now. I'm pretty certain that near the end of <i>The Flash</i><span class="nowrap" style="padding-left:0.1em;">'s</span> run they will end up merging these different earths in a major crossover storyline by bringing back all the main characters after their shows end. But until that happens, <i>Supergirl</i> and any other show not on Earth-1 is not in the Arrowverse.</dd> <dd>I do think that this article needs some work so it's clear that <i>Supergirl</i>, <i>Black Lightning</i>, etc. are not part of the Arrowverse. Starting with the infobox image that shows Supergirl when she is not in the universe. This <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://screenrant.com/best-actors-in-the-arrowverse/">image</a> would be much more appropriate or at least change the current caption. Also, we should completely remove the <i>Supergirl</i> characters in the recurring cast table. You cannot have it both ways; not include the series in the article's main series, but go ahead and list its characters in the universe's shared cast before it's the series is even mentioned once in the article! Mon-El, Winn, J'onn J'onzz, Eve Teschmacher have no business being in this article. (But that's being discussed below...) Maybe we could expand the "Multiverse" section explaining that <i>Supergirl</i> and BL exist in the DC Multiverse (so does the DCEU and the other DC shows like <i>Powerless</i>). - <a href="/wiki/User:Brojam" title="User:Brojam">Brojam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brojam" title="User talk:Brojam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:16:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-07-29T03:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:16, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:16:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-07-29T03:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:16:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-07-29T03:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T04:33:00.000Z-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:16:00.000Z"></span>Clearly when you say "<i>Supergirl</i> and any other show not on Earth-1 is not in the Arrowverse" you're viewing these series in-universe. I'm talking about the Arrowverse as a franchise of television shows, which are all part of the same fictional universe. Please read over my earlier points above. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T04:33:00.000Z-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:33, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T04:33:00.000Z-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T04:33:00.000Z-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:45:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T04:33:00.000Z"></span>That's the thing "Arrowverse" is not a franchise. Yes, we can say that the CW DC shows form a sort of franchise, but this franchise is not the "Arrowverse". - <a href="/wiki/User:Brojam" title="User:Brojam">Brojam</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brojam" title="User talk:Brojam">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:45:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T04:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:45:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T04:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:45:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T04:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T05:24:00.000Z-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:45:00.000Z"></span>So you agree, and that's what this article should focus on, because as the above-cited articles show, a reader looking for the Arrowverse but not aware of the various intricacies with the fictional universe and the various Earth will be confused, because they will be obviously expecting to see Supergirl as being a part of this series of TV shows, since most media is reporting on them as such. By the way, your own <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://screenrant.com/best-actors-in-the-arrowverse/">article</a> is titled "20 Best Actors In The Arrowverse" and states: "When October finally rolls around, Greg Berlanti and the CW’s <b>Arrowverse</b> will be larger than ever. This fall, the CW will be home to <b>four</b> DC Comics properties. Arrow, The Flash, and Legends of Tomorrow will be returning for their fifth, third, and second seasons respectively, while <b>Supergirl</b> will move to the CW after its freshman run aired on CBS. With the <b>Arrowverse</b> continuing to grow, the <b>four</b> series are now showcasing more acting talent than ever before." Just another confirmation that Supergirl is almost always included when talking about the Arrowverse, at least since the move to the CW. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T05:24:00.000Z-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:45:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:24, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T05:24:00.000Z-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:45:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T05:24:00.000Z-Brojam-2017-07-29T04:45:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T06:48:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T05:24:00.000Z"></span>Supergirl</i> is not set in the Arrowverse. That is a fact, and there is no point trying to dispute it. If you want to discuss whether this article should be about the Arrowverse, or any series based on DC properties produced by Greg Berlanti, then we can do that. But I think you'll find that the vast majority of the sources discussing these shows talk about creating or are in response to the shared universe, having crossovers of characters and plot lines, as well as full episode crossovers. That is what is notable about this, which is why the article is about the universe itself. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T06:48:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T05:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:48, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T06:48:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T05:24:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T06:48:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T05:24:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T14:57:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T06:48:00.000Z"></span>Then this article is incorrectly titled. I would suggest an article titled <a href="/wiki/Earth-1_(Arrowverse)" class="mw-redirect" title="Earth-1 (Arrowverse)">Earth-1 (Arrowverse)</a> so that it can be devoted solely to what you are describing. But when regular people think of the CW DC TV shows, they think of them as the Arrowvere, that terminology has made it into the mainstream now. And that includes Supergirl as I have demonstrated numerous times earlier. This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a> for this family of shows and that's what Wikipedia should reflect. What you are attempting is an in-universe half-measure. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T14:57:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T06:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:57, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T14:57:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T06:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-07-29T14:57:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T06:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T22:16:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T14:57:00.000Z"></span>Now you are the one trying to focus on the in-universe over the real world. It is called Earth-1 in-universe, but to us it is the Arrowverse, and it is the real-world idea of a fictional shared universe that is notable here. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T22:16:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T14:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:16, 29 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T22:16:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T14:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T22:16:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-07-29T14:57:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/User:Brojam" title="User:Brojam"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kailash29792-2017-09-22T19:09:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T22:16:00.000Z"></span>Brojam</a> and <a href="/wiki/User:Favre1fan93" title="User:Favre1fan93">Favre1fan93</a>, can this <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://collider.com/supergirl-season-2-katie-mcgrath-interview/">interview with Katie McGrath</a> be used to denote that Arrowverse, as a franchise, includes <i>Supergirl</i>? In that, she says, "That’s what <i>Supergirl</i>, and that’s what the Arrow-verse does, so well. You can have a wide spectrum of different types of people, and yet they’re all heroes." <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus"><a href="/wiki/User:Kailash29792" title="User:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;"><b>Kailash29792</b></span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kailash29792" title="User talk:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;">(talk)</span></a> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Kailash29792-2017-09-22T19:09:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T22:16:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:09, 22 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kailash29792-2017-09-22T19:09:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T22:16:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kailash29792-2017-09-22T19:09:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-07-29T22:16:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-09-22T22:51:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-09-22T19:09:00.000Z"></span>No. For <i>Supergirl</i> to be part of the Arrowverse, it either needs to move its setting from its own Earth to Earth-1, or the producers of the show need to make it clear that they intend the Arrowverse to mean the whole multiverse and not just a single shared universe (or that it means a "franchise" instead of any INUNIVERSE concepts, but I doubt that is going to happen). - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2017-09-22T22:51:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-09-22T19:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:51, 22 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-09-22T22:51:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-09-22T19:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2017-09-22T22:51:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-09-22T19:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-09-23T02:32:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-09-22T22:51:00.000Z"></span>Why? The Flash contains multiple Earths. The Arrowverse can contain multiple Earths under its umbrella, inlcuding The Ray. This is a silly discussion. To everyone just watching these shows, Supergirl is a part of the other four main series and vice versa. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-09-23T02:32:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-09-22T22:51:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:32, 23 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-09-23T02:32:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-09-22T22:51:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-09-23T02:32:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-09-22T22:51:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:17.6em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:17.6em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-09-24T00:04:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span>Because we don't go off what "everyone just watching" thinks, we go off reliable sources and the creators of the shows. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2017-09-24T00:04:00.000Z-Supergirl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:04, 24 September 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-09-24T00:04:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2017-09-24T00:04:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T00:11:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span>Quote: "There is no word yet if the possible series would be part of the DC TV universe currently on The CW, which includes The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow, Arrow and Supergirl as well as web series on CW Seed like Vixen and Constantine".<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference"><a href="#cite_note-1"><span class="cite-bracket">[</span>1<span class="cite-bracket">]</span></a></sup> Can we stop this foolishness now? There are plenty of reliable sources placing Supergirl within the Arrowverse. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T00:11:00.000Z-Supergirl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:11, 20 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T00:11:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T00:11:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T01:56:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T00:11:00.000Z"></span>That seems to be a quote not directly from the showrunners, and only from the website itself, indicating their own personal beliefs. One source does not instantly negate what you call this "foolishness". -- <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexTheWhovian" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AlexTheWhovian"><span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span></a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlexTheWhovian#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AlexTheWhovian"><sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T01:56:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T00:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:56, 20 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T01:56:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T00:11:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T01:56:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T00:11:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T01:56:00.000Z"></span>What do you mean, one source? Look at the top of this topic for many more. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T01:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:39, 20 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T01:56:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T01:56:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kailash29792-2017-10-20T14:44:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z"></span>The problem is, we need sources where any Arrowverse producer (like Berlanti or Kriesberg) says the term "Arrowverse" includes <i>Supergirl</i>, either as a franchise or multiverse. But as of now, it only refers to Earth-1. --<span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus"><a href="/wiki/User:Kailash29792" title="User:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;"><b>Kailash29792</b></span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kailash29792" title="User talk:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;">(talk)</span></a> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Kailash29792-2017-10-20T14:44:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:44, 20 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kailash29792-2017-10-20T14:44:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kailash29792-2017-10-20T14:44:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T14:47:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z"></span>As well as what Kailash29792 said, there is clearly <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONSENSUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONSENSUS">WP:CONSENSUS</a> that those sources do not support the idea of <i>Supergirl</i> being part of the Arrowverse and more that state otherwise. -- <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexTheWhovian" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AlexTheWhovian"><span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span></a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlexTheWhovian#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AlexTheWhovian"><sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T14:47:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:47, 20 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T14:47:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T14:47:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T14:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T21:59:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T14:47:00.000Z"></span>Again, this gets back to the biggest issue with this article, as it covers a <a href="/wiki/MOS:REALWORLD" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:REALWORLD">real world</a> topic (a group of interrelated TV shows) in an <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNIVERSE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNIVERSE">in-universe</a> POV, which is against Wikipedia policies. Moreover, Wikipedia policies include things like <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME">WP:COMMONNAME</a>, which comes down to, regardless of what the show-runners may or may not say, it's what reliable sources covering the shows are calling this group of shows, and the majority of reliable sources, when covering the Arrowverse, include Supergirl in that. This is verifiable fact, and at the moment this article deviates from that. I've said this before, but some people are just intent on not listening, possibly just to be obtuse and claim <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OWN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OWN">ownership</a> of the article, but if this was an in-universe article, excluding Supergirl, it would need to be renamed to something like <a href="/wiki/Earth-1_(Arrowverse)" class="mw-redirect" title="Earth-1 (Arrowverse)">Earth-1 (Arrowverse)</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T21:59:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T14:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:59, 20 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T21:59:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T14:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-10-20T21:59:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-20T14:47:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COMMONNAME" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COMMONNAME"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-21T02:06:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T21:59:00.000Z"></span>WP:COMMONNAME</a>? Did you link the right guideline? Just that I'm not seeing how it applies here, as we are not discussion the name of the article, but what is included in it.</dd> <dd>Continue to throw around accusations of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OWN" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OWN">WP:OWN</a> simply because you cannot understand the policy of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONSENSUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONSENSUS">WP:CONSENSUS</a> and that <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1248585704">@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{color:#00B785}}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk{font-family:Georgia,"DejaVu Serif",serif;color:#008560;quotes:none}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-italic{font-family:inherit;font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output .inline-quote-talk-marks{quotes:"\"""\""}</style><q class="inline-quote-talk">Consensus on Wikipedia does not mean unanimity</q>, and see where it gets you. I would also note that WP:CONSENSUS is a policy, whereas WP:UNIVERSE is a manual of style, or a guideline. Your personal opinion has been noted; however, it's the people that have created and run this franchise, and the discussion of editors here, that ultimately decides what is included in this particular article.</dd> <dd>There comes a time when it becomes a case of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DEADHORSE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DEADHORSE">beating a dead horse</a>... -- <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexTheWhovian" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AlexTheWhovian"><span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span></a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlexTheWhovian#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AlexTheWhovian"><sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-21T02:06:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T21:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:06, 21 October 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-21T02:06:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T21:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-10-21T02:06:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-10-20T21:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-82.71.212.125-2017-11-26T19:48:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span>SUPERGIRL IS PART OF THE ARROWVERSE. END OF STORY. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/82.71.212.125" title="Special:Contributions/82.71.212.125">82.71.212.125</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:82.71.212.125#top" title="User talk:82.71.212.125">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-82.71.212.125-2017-11-26T19:48:00.000Z-Supergirl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:48, 26 November 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-82.71.212.125-2017-11-26T19:48:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-82.71.212.125-2017-11-26T19:48:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-11-26T20:54:00.000Z-82.71.212.125-2017-11-26T19:48:00.000Z"></span>The <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONSENSUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONSENSUS">consensus</a> states otherwise. -- <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexTheWhovian" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AlexTheWhovian"><span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span></a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlexTheWhovian#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AlexTheWhovian"><sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-11-26T20:54:00.000Z-82.71.212.125-2017-11-26T19:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:54, 26 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-11-26T20:54:00.000Z-82.71.212.125-2017-11-26T19:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-11-26T20:54:00.000Z-82.71.212.125-2017-11-26T19:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span>Is this even still being argued? Did you guys not see tonight’s episode? Supergirl is indeed a full on member of the Arrowverse. You can think that she is not if it makes you feel better but she is. A simple crossover was “Worlds Finest”. But then she crossed over again in Season 3 of Flash with Eve and then the Duet. And she appeared in the crossover event Invasion!. But tonight fully cements any doubt, considering that she is literally part 1 of Crisis on earth-X. A consensus is not needded, as it is a fact. <a href="/wiki/User:Scream4man" title="User:Scream4man">Scream4man</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Scream4man" title="User talk:Scream4man">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z-Supergirl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:35, 28 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z-Supergirl"></span> </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T21:12:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span>Nope. It's NOT original research at all. It's an evaluation on a talk page of a primary source to determine article content, and is allowed by <b>policy</b> per "<i>This policy of no original research does not apply to talk pages and other pages which evaluate article content and sources...</i>", which can be found in the first paragraph of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">WP:OR</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T21:12:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:12, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T21:12:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T21:12:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:34:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span>I'd like to take a moment to mention <a href="/wiki/User:Scream4man" title="User:Scream4man">Scream4man</a> here just to make sure they see this and are aware that they are perfectly well within policy rights to post the above comment regarding a so called "original research violation". <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:34:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:34, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:34:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:34:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T19:59:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:34:00.000Z"></span>Er...the comment isn't in violation of the original research policy--but it still is original research and cannot be used to justify including anything in the article proper without the citation of a reliable source. That last bit is what's going to violate the no original research policy. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T19:59:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:59, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T19:59:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T19:59:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T21:06:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T19:59:00.000Z"></span>Actually, that last bit would violate all kinds of policy including WP:V. So, I can at least agree with you on that last tiny bit. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T21:06:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T19:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:06, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T21:06:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T19:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T21:06:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T19:59:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-11-28T04:44:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span>That's textbook <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">original research</a>. You would need to cite a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">reliable</a> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:SECONDARY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:SECONDARY">secondary source</a> that other editors can <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:VERIFY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:VERIFY">verify</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-11-28T04:44:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:44, 28 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-11-28T04:44:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-11-28T04:44:00.000Z-Scream4man-2017-11-28T04:35:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-184.151.111.201-2017-11-29T05:59:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-11-28T04:44:00.000Z"></span>Well, the way it’s written in the crossover section of the article let intends that Supergirl is part of the Arrowverse, but right afterward, it’s like if it weren’t. By the way, search all over the web for news of 2017 and its rather clear that Supergirl is part of the arrowverse (example: any article that review last night and tonight’s big crossover event). Also, I’m asking, but do editors consider Rotten Tomatoes like a reliable source? Cause these guys conside Supergirl as a part of the Arrowverse. If they do, why couldn’t Wikipedia? Here’s the link to the page : <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/arrowverse/">https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/arrowverse/</a>. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/184.151.111.201" title="Special:Contributions/184.151.111.201">184.151.111.201</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:184.151.111.201&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:184.151.111.201 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-184.151.111.201-2017-11-29T05:59:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-11-28T04:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:59, 29 November 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-184.151.111.201-2017-11-29T05:59:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-11-28T04:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-184.151.111.201-2017-11-29T05:59:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-11-28T04:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kailash29792-2017-11-29T07:36:00.000Z-184.151.111.201-2017-11-29T05:59:00.000Z"></span>What the media says isn't reliable in this case, <b>only the showrunners like Berlanti or Kreisberg</b>. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://collider.com/supergirl-season-2-katie-mcgrath-interview/">Even though Katie McGrath (alias Lena Luthor) calls <i>Supergirl</i> part of the Arrowverse</a>, the statement cannot be considered final and definitive. --<span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus"><a href="/wiki/User:Kailash29792" title="User:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;"><b>Kailash29792</b></span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kailash29792" title="User talk:Kailash29792"><span style="color:black;">(talk)</span></a> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Kailash29792-2017-11-29T07:36:00.000Z-184.151.111.201-2017-11-29T05:59:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:36, 29 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kailash29792-2017-11-29T07:36:00.000Z-184.151.111.201-2017-11-29T05:59:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kailash29792-2017-11-29T07:36:00.000Z-184.151.111.201-2017-11-29T05:59:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-11-29T16:31:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-11-29T07:36:00.000Z"></span>Why not? <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-11-29T16:31:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-11-29T07:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:31, 29 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-11-29T16:31:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-11-29T07:36:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-11-29T16:31:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2017-11-29T07:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-11-29T17:30:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-11-29T16:31:00.000Z"></span>It's a question of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:DUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:DUE">due weight</a>. The Rotten Tomatoes piece is a weak source because they're stating their opinion rather than a well-research article with proper fact checking. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-11-29T17:30:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-11-29T16:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:30, 29 November 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-11-29T17:30:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-11-29T16:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-11-29T17:30:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-11-29T16:31:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-207.162.115.170-2017-12-06T19:17:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-11-29T17:30:00.000Z"></span>In that case, could someone find a way to ask the showrunners in a way or another? <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/207.162.115.170" title="Special:Contributions/207.162.115.170">207.162.115.170</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:207.162.115.170#top" title="User talk:207.162.115.170">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-207.162.115.170-2017-12-06T19:17:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-11-29T17:30:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:17, 6 December 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-207.162.115.170-2017-12-06T19:17:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-11-29T17:30:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-207.162.115.170-2017-12-06T19:17:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-11-29T17:30:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-06T22:13:00.000Z-207.162.115.170-2017-12-06T19:17:00.000Z"></span>Isn't it <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:UNDUE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:UNDUE">undue weight</a> actually to go by what a showrunner may or may not have said on an occasion. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:PRIMARY" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:PRIMARY">Wikipedia is supposed to adhere to secondary sources</a>, which are the media covering this television universe, and I've provided more than enough examples to show that in the eyes of journalists Supergirl is absolutely part of this television franchise which most people will call the Arrowverse. See multiple articles cited earlier in this topic. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-12-06T22:13:00.000Z-207.162.115.170-2017-12-06T19:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:13, 6 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-06T22:13:00.000Z-207.162.115.170-2017-12-06T19:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-12-06T22:13:00.000Z-207.162.115.170-2017-12-06T19:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-07T12:55:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-06T22:13:00.000Z"></span>You have to be careful with due weight. As I've said above, I'm going to remain neutral on this, but the question is, have you actually provided "enough" examples? That's the thing about due weight, is it too few so that it's still fringe or is it enough to affect (or reflect) popular perception? <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-07T12:55:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-06T22:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:55, 7 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-07T12:55:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-06T22:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-07T12:55:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-06T22:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-07T12:55:00.000Z"></span>This type of thing is currently being discussed at <a href="/wiki/MOS:FILM" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:FILM">MOS:FILM</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TV" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TV">WP:TV</a>; permalinks <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Film&oldid=814097564#%22sharing_continuity%22">here</a> and <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Television&oldid=813872019">here</a>. As seen in those links, <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri88</a> is really concerned about the "continuity" topic. Looking at <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arrowverse&oldid=814087217">the current state of the article</a>, I don't see that it's really excluding <i>Supergirl</i>. Yes, there are edits like <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arrowverse&diff=814087217&oldid=814074667">this one</a> by DonQuixote, which remove it from the infobox listing, but <i>Supergirl</i> is in the infobox image, mentioned in the lead, and is mentioned in the Crossovers section. It's not included in the "Main series" section, but it's not as heavily tied to Arrowverse as the other shows are.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Since this has obviously been discussed to death and is still being debated, I've started an RfC on the matter below to hopefully resolve the issue. <a href="/wiki/User:Flyer22_Reborn" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Flyer22 Reborn">Flyer22 Reborn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Flyer22_Reborn" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Flyer22 Reborn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-07T12:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-07T12:55:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-07T12:55:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2017-12-07T20:47:00.000Z-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z"></span>Ugh. I hope my little "sharing continuity with" discussion doesn't get overwhelmed with Arrowverse-focused editors claiming that those shows really do share continuity with each other. The problem with the "Marvel Cinematic Universe" topics is actually quite unrelated, and what I'm "really concerned about" is actually not so much "continuity" but Wikipedia parroting inaccurate marketing information from primary sources. For these shows, for all I know, the continuity is truly <i>shared</i> between them, so that even if Wikipedia is parroting marketing information, that information is at least accurate. With the Marvel shows, we have legitimate real-world concerns that, because the TV shows and films are controlled by different (rival) corporate entities, the films have a serious reason <i>not</i> to chare continuity the series. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2017-12-07T20:47:00.000Z-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:47, 7 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2017-12-07T20:47:00.000Z-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2017-12-07T20:47:00.000Z-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1232521257">.mw-parser-output .reflist-talk{margin:auto 0;border:1px dashed var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:4px;padding-left:1em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-talk-title{font-weight:bold}</style><div class="reflist-talk"> <p class="reflist-talk-title">References</p> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239543626">.mw-parser-output .reflist{margin-bottom:0.5em;list-style-type:decimal}@media screen{.mw-parser-output .reflist{font-size:90%}}.mw-parser-output .reflist .references{font-size:100%;margin-bottom:0;list-style-type:inherit}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-2{column-width:30em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns-3{column-width:25em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns{margin-top:0.3em}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns ol{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .reflist-columns li{page-break-inside:avoid;break-inside:avoid-column}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-alpha{list-style-type:upper-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-upper-roman{list-style-type:upper-roman}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-alpha{list-style-type:lower-alpha}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-greek{list-style-type:lower-greek}.mw-parser-output .reflist-lower-roman{list-style-type:lower-roman}</style><div class="reflist"> <div class="mw-references-wrap"><ol class="references"> <li id="cite_note-1"><span class="mw-cite-backlink"><b><a href="#cite_ref-1">^</a></b></span> <span class="reference-text"><a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/896923-the-cw-developing-dc-comics-adaptation-project-13">http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/896923-the-cw-developing-dc-comics-adaptation-project-13</a></span> </li> </ol></div></div> </div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-Supergirl-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z"><span id="Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-Supergirl-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z"></span>Should <i>Supergirl</i> be mentioned as being a part of Arrowverse?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-Supergirl-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #EDEAFF; padding: 0px 10px 0px 10px; border: 1px solid #8779DD;"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1224211176"><div class="quotebox pullquote floatright" style="width:30%; ;"> <blockquote class="quotebox-quote left-aligned" style=""><p> There is a clear consensus that the <i><a href="/wiki/Supergirl_(TV_series)" title="Supergirl (TV series)">Supergirl</a></i> television series <b>should be</b> mentioned as being a part of <a href="/wiki/Arrowverse" title="Arrowverse">Arrowverse</a>.</p><p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Cunard&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Cunard (page does not exist)">Cunard</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cunard" title="User talk:Cunard">talk</a>) 06:02, 14 January 2018 (UTC) </p></blockquote> </div> <dl><dd><i>The following discussion is closed. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl> <hr/> <p>One view is that the <i><a href="/wiki/Supergirl_(TV_series)" title="Supergirl (TV series)">Supergirl</a></i> television series <b>should be</b> mentioned as being a part of <a href="/wiki/Arrowverse" title="Arrowverse">Arrowverse</a> because a number of reliable sources state or imply that the show is a part of Arrowverse and because the show has been a part of Arrowverse crossovers. The other view is that <i>Supergirl</i> <b>should not be</b> mentioned as being a part of Arrowverse because the creators/showrunners have not identified it as being a part of Arrowverse. Thoughts? </p><p>For those viewing this discussion from the RfC page or an alert on their talk page, see the <a href="/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse#Supergirl" title="Talk:Arrowverse">Talk:Arrowverse#Supergirl</a> discussion for more detail. <a href="/wiki/User:Flyer22_Reborn" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Flyer22 Reborn">Flyer22 Reborn</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Flyer22_Reborn" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Flyer22 Reborn">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Flyer22_Reborn-2017-12-07T15:13:00.000Z-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Survey" data-mw-thread-id="h-Survey-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-2017-12-07T18:56:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Survey-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-2017-12-07T18:56:00.000Z"></span>Survey<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Survey-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-2017-12-07T18:56:00.000Z"></span></h4></div> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joeyconnick-2017-12-07T18:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b> – I think initially, it made sense not to include it because they made such a big deal about it being on a different network in a "different universe" but given the increasing number of crossovers with <i>Supergirl</i> since its move to the CW, and the fact that the Arrowverse is described as a "shared fictional universe", it is clearly in practice a part of the same group. When you have regular crossovers, characters that are "aware" of one another, and a fictional setup that already recognizes the existence of multiple universes... all this PLUS reliable sources that acknowledge the connection? I mean really, what with Earth-2 and Earth-X, etc., the Arrowverse is a shared fictional <i>multi</i>verse... and <i>Supergirl</i> is part of that. —<a href="/wiki/User:Joeyconnick" title="User:Joeyconnick">Joeyconnick</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joeyconnick" title="User talk:Joeyconnick">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Joeyconnick-2017-12-07T18:56:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:56, 7 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joeyconnick-2017-12-07T18:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joeyconnick-2017-12-07T18:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-07T22:07:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b> – So that I do not repeat myself, please see my posts on this topic above in July 2017 with plenty of reliable sources placing Supergril within the Arrowverse. Not to mention that taking into account that this fictional multiverse contains many different Earths, of which Earth 1 is just one but many more are mentioned and visited, it seems very inappropriate to exclude them. Technically, Freedom Fighters: The Ray does not take part in the "Arrowverse" as construed by the article, which differentiates (in-universe) various earths, while in actuality all these real-world series take place in the same continuity, fictional universe, etc. They share a network and creative talent. There is no case for Supergirl to be excluded. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-12-07T22:07:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:07, 7 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-07T22:07:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-12-07T22:07:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-SMcCandlish-2017-12-08T00:54:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Maybe</b>, depending exactly on what the sources say and exactly what we say based on them. "Imply" isn't good enough. I'll just repeat what I said at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:MOSFILM" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:MOSFILM">WT:MOSFILM</a>: 'The gist: "set in the <var style="padding-right: 1px;">Foo</var> universe" and "sharing continuity with" other things in the same fictional universe are not synonymous. Equating them is patently <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NOR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NOR">original research</a> and not permissible. Numerous things set in a particular fictional universe have well-documented continuity forks, according to off-WP sources. We cannot second-guess these facts because we wish things were more tidy, or because we really just like writing the phrase "share[d|s|ing] continuity".' <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — <a href="/wiki/User:SMcCandlish" title="User:SMcCandlish"><b>SMcCandlish</b></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:SMcCandlish" title="User talk:SMcCandlish">☏</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish" title="Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish">¢</a> ><sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>< </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-SMcCandlish-2017-12-08T00:54:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:54, 8 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-SMcCandlish-2017-12-08T00:54:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-SMcCandlish-2017-12-08T00:54:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Favre1fan93-2017-12-08T00:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span>(<a href="/wiki/Help:Edit_conflict" title="Help:Edit conflict">edit conflict</a>)</small> <b>Comment</b> - The crux of this RfC (and the larger discussion as a whole) is how this article should be formatted: is it either about the singular universe called by Berlanti Production producers as the "Arrowverse", which the series <i>Arrow</i>, <i>Flash</i>, <i>LoT</i> and <i>Vixen</i> reside, with additional mention of series existing peripherally to that single universe mentioned as currently; <b>OR</b> is it supposed to be about about the fictional multiverse that all these series inhabit, and has (incorrectly) been referred to by reliable third-party sources as the "Arrowverse"? Once a decision on how to present the article can be formed, "including" or "not including" <i>Supergirl</i> becomes irrelevant because the answer will be made. Given all of this, while I still support the idea that <i>Supergirl</i> is not a part of the Arrowverse, the article here may be benefitted more by reformatting it to discuss the shared multiverse these shows all inhabit. - <a href="/wiki/User:Favre1fan93" title="User:Favre1fan93">Favre1fan93</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Favre1fan93" title="User talk:Favre1fan93">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Favre1fan93-2017-12-08T00:56:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:56, 8 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Favre1fan93-2017-12-08T00:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Favre1fan93-2017-12-08T00:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-12-08T22:15:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Comment</b> - I agree with Favre, this depends on what we mean by "Arrowverse". Currently, we are defining the Arrowverse as a single shared universe, which is called Earth-1 in the show. That is why <i>Supergirl</i> is not considered part of the Arrowverse, because that show is set on Earth-38. If people want to include <i>Supergirl</i> in the Arrowverse here, then they need to provide a convincing argument for the term "Arrowverse" actually referring to the entire multiverse that is depicted in the shows. At the moment, our sources do not support that interpretation. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2017-12-08T22:15:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:15, 8 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2017-12-08T22:15:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2017-12-08T22:15:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-09T00:09:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-12-08T22:15:00.000Z"></span>But they do. At the beginning I provided ten articles that explicitly covered Supergirl as part of the Arrowverse. So, yes, I agree, this article should not focus on just Earth-1 but the entire multiverse, including Earth-X and Earth-38. It makes no sense otherwise, and sombody has actually already created an article for <a href="/wiki/Earth-1_(Arrowverse)" class="mw-redirect" title="Earth-1 (Arrowverse)">Earth-1 (Arrowverse)</a>. Also, if we need more recent articles with definitive statements, here are a couple: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://screenrant.com/crisis-on-earth-x-stephen-amell-arrow-crossover/">1</a> ("Since then, the Arrowverse has doubled in size, adding both Supergirl and Legends"), and <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://screenrant.com/earth-x-arrowverse-crossover-trivia-facts/">2</a> ("DC has set up its CW TV shows – aka the Arrowverse – as a separate shared universe wherein the stories of Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, and Legends of Tomorrow are told. [...] Now, with the DC TV universe deep into its sixth year, fans have come to understand just how the Multiverse works – that there are 52 Earths, each one similar but different.") This is <b>explicitly</b> stating that Supergirl is part of the Arrowverse which is a shared universe of TV shows all taking place within the same multiverse which contains 52 earths (well, 53 actually), of which Earth-38 is one. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-12-09T00:09:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-12-08T22:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:09, 9 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-09T00:09:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-12-08T22:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-12-09T00:09:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2017-12-08T22:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2017-12-09T07:34:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b> The fact that it's supposedly set in a parallel reality that crosses over with the reality of the other shows frequently is in-universe trivia. This article treats "Arrowverse" as the name of the real-world franchise (the way most of the secondary sources seem to use the term), not the name of the "universe" in which most of the other shows take place (the way primary sources seem to use the term). Ideally, sources could be located to clarify the distinctioj, and we could rewrite the first sentence of the article to reflect how the name "Arrowverse" is already used throughout the rest of the article, and how articles on fiction are generally supposed to be written on Wikipedia. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2017-12-09T07:34:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:34, 9 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2017-12-09T07:34:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2017-12-09T07:34:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Markbassett-2017-12-10T06:40:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Not</b> visiting cameo seems not ‘part of’. Only if it becomes frequently repeated would it seem part of the background reality. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Markbassett&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Markbassett (page does not exist)">Markbassett</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Markbassett" title="User talk:Markbassett">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Markbassett-2017-12-10T06:40:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:40, 10 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Markbassett-2017-12-10T06:40:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Markbassett-2017-12-10T06:40:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T06:20:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b>: Clearly, all these shows are part of the same universe/multiverse (whatever you like to call it). Also, we have <s>no</s> [few] sources stating otherwise, but we surely do have [abundant] sources stating that it is so. (Didn't require much changing at all...) <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T06:20:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:20, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T06:20:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T06:20:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T06:23:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T06:20:00.000Z"></span>I recommend that you read the above comments, because you'll find that your own comment will require changing after you do... -- <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexTheWhovian" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AlexTheWhovian"><span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span></a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlexTheWhovian#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AlexTheWhovian"><sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T06:23:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T06:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:23, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T06:23:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T06:20:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T06:23:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T06:20:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:10:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T06:23:00.000Z"></span>Thanks for pointing out my oversight. In my defense, it was easy to overlook the sources since so very few are mentioned in the lengthy discussion. At any rate, I've modified my comment slightly to correct the mistake and I'm not surprised to find that the changes have little impact on the intended meaning of my comment after all. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:10:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T06:23:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:10, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:10:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T06:23:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:10:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T06:23:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Scream4man-2017-12-12T21:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b> - She has appeared in the last two crossovers, the last one of which started on <i>her</i> show. The Flash crossed over onto her show and she crossed onto his twice and Eve appeared once as well. She's even featured on the poster for the Arrowverse and The Ray (Which is being regarded as a part of it) has her evil doppelganger as a main villain. Why are we even still arguing this? <a href="/wiki/User:Scream4man" title="User:Scream4man">Scream4man</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Scream4man" title="User talk:Scream4man">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Scream4man-2017-12-12T21:56:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:56, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Scream4man-2017-12-12T21:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Scream4man-2017-12-12T21:56:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Argento_Surfer-2017-12-13T21:44:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b> - The article treats "arrowverse" like a franchise, not as a subset of a larger fictional multiverse. Contrast this with Constantine, which is specifically noted as a "one-time deal". <a href="/wiki/User:Argento_Surfer" title="User:Argento Surfer">Argento Surfer</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Argento_Surfer" title="User talk:Argento Surfer">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Argento_Surfer-2017-12-13T21:44:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:44, 13 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Argento_Surfer-2017-12-13T21:44:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Argento_Surfer-2017-12-13T21:44:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-James_Allison-2017-12-15T19:54:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Strong support</b> (i.e., <b>should</b>). Reliable, third-party sources are preferred to primary ones, and no local consensus here can override that. <a href="/wiki/User:James_Allison" title="User:James Allison">James</a> (<sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:James_Allison" title="User talk:James Allison">talk</a></sup>/<sub><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_Allison" title="Special:Contributions/James Allison">contribs</a></sub>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-James_Allison-2017-12-15T19:54:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:54, 15 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-James_Allison-2017-12-15T19:54:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-James_Allison-2017-12-15T19:54:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-South_Nashua-2017-12-22T06:29:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Support</b> I don't understand, they exist in the same fictional reality, isn't that the same universe? Why would that not be the same universe? <a href="/wiki/User:South_Nashua" title="User:South Nashua">South Nashua</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:South_Nashua" title="User talk:South Nashua">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-South_Nashua-2017-12-22T06:29:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:29, 22 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-South_Nashua-2017-12-22T06:29:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-South_Nashua-2017-12-22T06:29:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rcarter555-2017-12-31T23:38:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Support</b> It appears to me that people have to bend over backward and use the craziest of logic to claim that this show is NOT a part of the Arrowverse. It's ridiculous. It is SO obvious that it is part of the franchise.<a href="/wiki/User:Rcarter555" title="User:Rcarter555">Rcarter555</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rcarter555" title="User talk:Rcarter555">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Rcarter555-2017-12-31T23:38:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:38, 31 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rcarter555-2017-12-31T23:38:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rcarter555-2017-12-31T23:38:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Comatmebro-2018-01-02T22:18:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b> Summoned by a bot - agree with the conclusion above that it is much easier to cite and support the idea that it is part of the same universe than it is to disprove that theory. <a href="/wiki/User:Comatmebro" title="User:Comatmebro"><b style="color: green;">Comatmebro</b></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Comatmebro" title="User talk:Comatmebro">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Comatmebro-2018-01-02T22:18:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:18, 2 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Comatmebro-2018-01-02T22:18:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Comatmebro-2018-01-02T22:18:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-190.164.188.179-2018-01-05T02:31:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b> At this point, there is no reason to belive she is not part of the franchise <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/190.164.188.179" title="Special:Contributions/190.164.188.179">190.164.188.179</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:190.164.188.179&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:190.164.188.179 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-190.164.188.179-2018-01-05T02:31:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:31, 5 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-190.164.188.179-2018-01-05T02:31:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-190.164.188.179-2018-01-05T02:31:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li> <li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Toshiba5-2018-01-06T22:59:00.000Z-Survey"></span>Should</b> Since Supergirl has crossed over with several episodes of the other shows, I think it should be included. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Toshiba5&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Toshiba5 (page does not exist)">Toshiba5</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Toshiba5" title="User talk:Toshiba5">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Toshiba5-2018-01-06T22:59:00.000Z-Survey" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:59, 6 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Toshiba5-2018-01-06T22:59:00.000Z-Survey"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Toshiba5-2018-01-06T22:59:00.000Z-Survey"></span></li></ul> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z"></span>Discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion-Should_Supergirl_be_mentioned_as_being_a_part_of_Arrowverse?-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z"></span></h4></div> <ul><li><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Question</b>: Why is the <i>Constantine</i> crossover being allowed into the article as a main series, but not the <i>Supergirl</i> crossover? I don't understand why we are having this discussion, but nobody has seemed to notice this apparent contradiction? <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:49, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z-Discussion"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T08:14:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z"></span>Do you mean the <i>web-series</i> or the <i>live-action series</i>? I'm only seeing the former in the main series section. -- <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexTheWhovian" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AlexTheWhovian"><span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span></a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlexTheWhovian#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AlexTheWhovian"><sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T08:14:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:14, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T08:14:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T08:14:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T07:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T08:14:00.000Z"></span>Does it really matter if it's "live-action" or "web"? You can still see the discrimination either way. Attempting to distinguish "<i>web-series</i>" from "<i>live-action series</i>" as if it somehow justifies the discrimination is an unfair comparison since <i>Supergirl</i> doesn't have a "<i>web-series</i>" to compare to anyway. Both <i>Supergirl</i> and <i>Constantine</i> are listed in the article under the crossover category, yet the Contantine "<i>web-series</i>" is being allowed, while <i>Supergirl</i> is not. I meant exactly what I said. <i>Constantine</i> is being allowed, while <i>Supergirl</i> is being excluded. Simple. Anyone can clearly see there is a contradiction when even <i>Constantine</i> "live-action series" is being excluded, while <i>Constantine</i> "<i>web-series</i>" is being allowed. That should make the contradiction obvious to anyone. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T08:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:50, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T08:14:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-11T08:14:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T16:41:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z"></span>There's a Constantine live-action series which isn't part of the Arrowverse and a different Constantine animated series which is. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T16:41:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T16:41:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T16:41:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:50:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T16:41:00.000Z"></span>That seems counter-intuitive and contradictory to me. <i>Constantine</i> is part of the Arrowverse, but it isn't at the same time? It sounds like a case of wanting to have cake and eat it too. You claim they are "different", but according to the article the animated series has; "<i>Matt Ryan reprises his role as John Constantine</i>", "<i>David S. Goyer will serve as executive producers, with Goyer having been one of the creators of the live-action series,</i>", and discussions pending "<i>regarding if any other characters that appeared in the cancelled live-action series to appear in the web series, or "how this version of Constantine will connect back to the live action storylines he's been a part of.</i>" <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:50:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T16:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:50, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:50:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T16:41:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:50:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T16:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T19:10:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:50:00.000Z"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk"><i>Constantine</i> is part of the Arrowverse, but it isn't at the same time?</q></dd> <dd>No, the animated series is part of the Arrowverse but the live-action series isn't--they're two different productions. Similarly, <a href="/wiki/Never_Say_Never_Again" title="Never Say Never Again">Never Say Never Again</a> again isn't part of EON's Bond series even though it starred Sean Connery and involved Kevin McClory who were both involved with <a href="/wiki/Thunderball_(film)" title="Thunderball (film)">Thunderball</a>--they're two different productions. You're the one conflating two independent productions and confusing yourself. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T19:10:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T19:10:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T19:10:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T18:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T20:09:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T19:10:00.000Z"></span>I'm afraid that is another inadequate example that fails to do a proper comparison since there is no "Bond universe" to compare it to. Besides, even if there were a "Bondverse" you can probably imagine I would still be arguing for the inclusion of <i>Never Say Never Again</i> into that hypothetical universe. I mean come on. It's Connery, it's Bond, it's based on Fleming's work, it's part of the "Bondverse". It's even mentioned on the <a href="/wiki/Eon_Productions" title="Eon Productions">Eon Productions</a> and <a href="/wiki/Thunderball_(film)" title="Thunderball (film)">Thunderball (film)</a> pages. That's a topic for another discussion though... <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T20:09:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T19:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:09, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T20:09:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T19:10:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T20:09:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T19:10:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T21:39:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T20:09:00.000Z"></span>Yeah, no, it's adequate because Wikipedia is written from a <a href="/wiki/MOS:REALWORLD" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:REALWORLD">real world perspective</a>. Saying that Star Trek (animated) is an Emmy-winning series while Star Trek (live action) is not an Emmy-winning series is not a contradiction because, in the real world, they're two different series. In the real world, Constantine (animated) and Constantine (live action) are two different series and saying two different things about two different series is not a contradiction, which was your argument. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T21:39:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T20:09:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:39, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T21:39:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T20:09:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T21:39:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T20:09:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T23:07:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T21:39:00.000Z"></span>In the real world, it's not me who is "conflating" anything, it's this article and those editors who have been incorrectly summarizing sources to push their own POV who are "conflated". Also, if there is any "confusion" going on here, then it's not mine, but nothing more than the simple distractions which have been offered here so others won't see the obvious contradictions. All one has to do is take a look at my most recent edit to the article to see the POV pushing and I have no doubt it wouldn't stand up to much further scrutiny to see how conflated the rest of the article is either... <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T23:07:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T21:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:07, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T23:07:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T21:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-11T23:07:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T21:39:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T23:34:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T23:07:00.000Z"></span>Please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TRUTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TRUTH">WP:TRUTH</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T23:34:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T23:07:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:34, 11 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T23:34:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T23:07:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T23:34:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T23:07:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:58:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T23:34:00.000Z"></span>Please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Truth" title="Wikipedia:Truth">WP:Truth</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TRUTHMATTERS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TRUTHMATTERS">WP:TRUTHMATTERS</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Truth,_not_verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Truth, not verifiability">Wikipedia:Truth, not verifiability</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:58:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T23:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:58, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:58:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T23:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:58:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-11T23:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:29:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:58:00.000Z"></span>From <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Truth" title="Wikipedia:Truth">WP:Truth</a>: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Neutral point of view states that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each.</q> To emphasize: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk"><b>viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source</b></q> <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:29:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:29, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:29:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:58:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:29:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T19:58:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:34:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:29:00.000Z"></span>Also, from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TRUTHMATTERS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TRUTHMATTERS">WP:TRUTHMATTERS</a>: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">So, NPOV directs us to state only objectively truthful things using Wikipedia's voice.</q></dd> <dd>From <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Truth,_not_verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Truth, not verifiability">WP:Truth, not verifiability</a>: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Wikipedia is supposed to reflect what reliable sources say, regardless of whether individual editors think it is true or think they can personally verify it.</q></dd> <dd>Seriously, you really need to review these and understand them rather then throw them around like a bunch of buzz words. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:34:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:29:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:34, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:34:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:29:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:34:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:29:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T23:03:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:34:00.000Z"></span>From <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TRUTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TRUTH">WP:TRUTH</a>: "<i>Editors may not add their own views to articles simply because they believe them to be correct, and may not remove sources' views from articles simply because they disagree with them.</i>", "<i>content is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of its editors.</i>" and "<i>It is important not to "cherry-pick" quotations or other material. Source material should be summarized in context to make sure it is represented fairly and accurately.</i>".</dd> <dd>From <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Truth" title="Wikipedia:Truth">WP:Truth</a>: "<i>You might wish to start a blog or visit a forum if you want to convince people of the merits of your favorite views.</i>", "<i>Some contributors have tried to get their preferred viewpoint enshrined as "the truth" on subjects dear to their hearts.</i>", "<i>A key Wikipedia policy is that articles should be "unbiased," or written from a "neutral point of view." We use these terms in a precise way that is different from the common understanding. It's crucial to grasp what it means to be neutral (in this sense)--a careful reading of this page will help.</i>", "<i>Basically, to write without bias (from a neutral point of view) is to write so that articles do not advocate any specific points of view; instead, the different viewpoints in a controversy are all described fairly...</i>", "<i>A solution is that we accept, for purposes of working on Wikipedia, that "human knowledge" includes all different (significant, published) theories on all different topics.</i>", "<i>To avoid endless edit wars, we can agree to present each of these views fairly, and not make our articles assert any one of them as correct. And that is what makes an article "unbiased" or "neutral" in the sense we are presenting here.</i>" and "<i>We should, both individually and collectively, make an effort to present these conflicting theories fairly, without advocating any one of them.</i>".</dd> <dd>From <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TRUTHMATTERS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TRUTHMATTERS">WP:TRUTHMATTERS</a>: "<i>Verifiability in reliable sources is absolutely critical. But elevating that to a religion which rejects truth is a huge mistake.</i>" - Jimbo, "<i>This essay's position is that truth on Wikipedia does matter, and that claiming that it doesn't is at best disingenuous, and at worst, counterproductive to nuanced content dispute conversations.</i>", "<i>Our core policy of neutral point of view (NPOV) is primarily concerned with truth.</i>" and " <b>Evaluations of the truth of a claim are central to following the policy of NPOV.</b>" [emphasis NOT added].</dd> <dd>From <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Truth,_not_verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Truth, not verifiability">WP:Truth, not verifiability</a>: "<i>It does not really matter. The distinction being made here is not really between truth and verifiability at all, but between the statements made by reliable sources (which we want to include in the encyclopedia), and the unsupported claims of Wikipedia editors (which we don't).</i>" and "<i>It's not quite as simple as that, of course, but once you know that Wikipedia is supposed to reflect what reliable sources say, not its editors' private thoughts and unsourceable personal knowledge, most of the rest is more or less common sense.</i>"</dd> <dd>So, while you are suggesting to other editors to read and understand essays before they "throw them around like a bunch of buzz words", perhaps you should consider the fact that it was yourself who "threw out the first buzz word" and I only followed suit to respond in like kind. Maybe think about that next time before you criticize others about things which you are guilty of yourself in how you lead by your own example. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T23:03:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:34:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:03, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T23:03:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:34:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-12T23:03:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-12T20:34:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T01:15:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T23:03:00.000Z"></span>Seriously, you're the one pushing a POV because you're not citing reliable sources. It's your "private thought" that two different series being described differently is somehow a contradiction. There is no reliable source that says what you're trying to push. The fact that you haven't provided any reliable source to support your claims is why I mentioned <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:TRUTH" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:TRUTH">WP:TRUTH</a>. And the other guidelines don't support you either. If you read them carefully, you would understand that you would need to provide a reliable source first before <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">evaluating the truth of a claim</q>. The point is that to <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">present each of these views fairly</q>, we must first have the views of reliable sources--not the views of editors (<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">content is determined by previously published information rather than the beliefs or experiences of its editors</q>). Or another way of saying it: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">The distinction being made here is not really between truth and verifiability at all, but between the statements made by reliable sources (which we want to include in the encyclopedia), and the unsupported claims of Wikipedia editors (which we don't).</q> That's actually also what WP:TRUTH says, which you adequately quoted above--and we actually need sources before we can "cherry-pick" from them cos we can't cherry-pick from zero. So, fundamentally, the point is that we don't have to care about what you think is "the truth" but what reliable sources have to say. You're the one making the extraordinary claim that the animated series is the same as the live action series. The burden is on you to provide a source that says that. So, please, provide a source that says that the live action series is part of the Arrowverse or that the animated series is one-and-the-same as the live action series. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T01:15:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T23:03:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:15, 13 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T01:15:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T23:03:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T01:15:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-12T23:03:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-13T06:16:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T01:15:00.000Z"></span>Seriously, you haven't provided any sources for YOUR "POV pushing" either. (A few ill compared examples don't count as sources.) So, yet again, we find ourselves in a situation where you foolishly make yourself look like a hypocrite by accusing me of the selfsame thing you yourself are guilty of. You seem like a rational and intelligent person, so you should not demean yourself in this way. It's your own "private thought" that my idea about there being a contradiction is "not correct". So, I can agree with you that we CAN'T pick from zero, so we could care less about what YOU think is "the truth" just as well. Also, I would kindly ask you to stop putting words in my mouth. I never at any point whatsoever made an "extraordinary claim that the animated series is the same as the live action series". So, please stop asking me to provide sources for claims that I never made. YOU, on the other hand, DID claim "No, the animated series is part of the Arrowverse but the live-action series isn't--they're two different productions." So, if anybody should be providing sources for claims, it's YOU. Also, if you were following all of this wonderful advice of your own that you are giving me about providing sources for claims to begin with then maybe we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now because you would have already proven to me that what looks like a contradiction isn't true because you've backed up your claim with reliable sources. As it stands, I can only assume that your advice must have very little value since you didn't use it yourself. This causes you to lose a certain amount of credibility since it now seems that you are willing to dole out advice that you apparently know to be of little value. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-13T06:16:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T01:15:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-13T06:16:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T01:15:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-13T06:16:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T01:15:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><div class="outdent-template" style="position:relative;left:1px;"><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-bottom:1px solid #a2a9b1;border-right:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span><span style="display:block;width:16em;height:0.5em;border-left:1px solid #a2a9b1;"></span></div><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T16:28:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z"></span><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">I never at any point whatsoever made an "extraordinary claim that the animated series is the same as the live action series".</q></dd> <dd>So, then, what's your point exactly? If they're not the same, then your responses <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Does it really matter if it's "live-action" or "web"?</q>, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">That seems counter-intuitive and contradictory to me. Constantine is part of the Arrowverse, but it isn't at the same time?</q>, etc. don't make much sense. If they're <i>different</i> series, then comparing them to other different productions/series (as shown above) illustrates how it's not really counter-intuitive or contradictory, as you claim. To reiterate, Never Say Never Again shares two people who were involved with Thunderball in the same way that Constantine animated shares two people who were involved Constantine live-action. In other words, I wasn't pushing a POV but showing that "counter-intuitive and contradictory" isn't an "obvious fact" (ie, "the truth").</dd> <dd>As for sources re:<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">No, the animated series is part of the Arrowverse but the live-action series isn't--they're two different productions.</q>: from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://collider.com/constantine-animated-series-poster-cw-seed/">Collider</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">This all-new animated series from Warner Bros. Animation and Blue Ribbon Content follows DC’s popular comic book character John Constantine (voiced by the live action series star Matt Ryan), a seasoned demon hunter and master of the occult.</q> or from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/07/constantine-tv-series-officially-dead">IGN</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">Cerone broke the news that the show was over and thanked fans for their continued support.</q> Also, as I pointed out above, no one has ever considered an animated series and a live action series to be one-and-the-same but rather a spin-off or sequel: such as animated Star Trek or animated Planet of the Apes etc. And no source states that the live action Constantine is part of the Arrowverse, but for the animated Constantine: from <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/08/constantine-is-back-with-matt-ryan-as-a-cw-seed-animated-series">IGN</a> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">"[The relevant CW Seed shows are] all somewhat connected now to the Arrowverse for our purposes. We look at CW Seed as an extension," [Pedowitz] said.</q></dd> <dd>So, yeah, the ball's still in your court. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T16:28:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 13 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T16:28:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T16:28:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-11T13:50:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-14T09:31:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T16:28:00.000Z"></span>Well, I was content with just having my opinion about an existing contradiction, but you didn't want to just let me have my opinion without an argument. Despite the fact I wasn't even pushing for an idea of Constantine (live action) as being in the Arrowverse, you seem to have forced me into that position before I'm allowed to have my opinion about there being an existing contradiction. So, here goes...</dd> <dd>From your own source: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://collider.com/constantine-animated-series-poster-cw-seed/">Collider</a>) "<i>Executive produced by David S. Goyer (The Dark Knight trilogy, Batman v. Superman: Dawn of Justice, <b>Constantine [live action series]</b>.</i>" Suggesting production is in universe between both series. [emphasis added]</dd> <dd>From the EP of your own source: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/07/constantine-tv-series-officially-dead">IGN</a>) "<i>Many ingredients went into this TV series. From the dedicated cast that breathed these characters to life, led by Matt Ryan as the <b>comic-made-flesh embodiment</b> of John Constantine, to the exceptionality talented crew that put unreal images on screen, to the original Hellblazer writers and artists who <b>gifted us a universe</b>.</i>" and "<i>The good news is that Constantine will live on for years in many more forms.</i>". Suggesting the live show is in universe and hinting the show will continue in universe in another form i.e. the animated series. [emphasis added]</dd> <dd>From your own source: <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/01/08/constantine-is-back-with-matt-ryan-as-a-cw-seed-animated-series">IGN</a>) "<i>They're all somewhat connected now to the Arrowverse for our purposes...</i>" Suggesting ALL the shows are in the Arrowverse. "<i>We asked Berlanti if the animated Constantine could involve characters from the NBC series, and he replied, "At this point, I think so!"</i> Suggesting there will be an in universe connection between the shows.</dd> <dd>From <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SharedUniverse">TV Tropes</a>: "<i>Constantine seemed originally part of another universe, but a crossover was planned before it was cancelled. After its cancellation, it was retroactively made part of the "Arrowverse" with the titular character appearing in Season 4 of Arrow.</i>" So much for your claim that no source says the live action show is in the Arrowverse, Eh? You've really just lost all credibility with me and I see no point in continuing this silly debate over what was intended to be nothing more than just my simple <i>opinion</i> in the first place. Please go argue with someone else about their opinions. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-14T09:31:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T16:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:31, 14 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-14T09:31:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T16:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-14T09:31:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-13T16:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-14T09:31:00.000Z"></span>Seriously, you keep failing to understand that Wikipedia is written from a <a href="/wiki/MOS:REALWORLD" class="mw-redirect" title="MOS:REALWORLD">real world perspective</a> and not in-universe. In the real world, these are two different series. And, as you've stated, the above is <i>your opinion</i>--which is against what <i>you yourself</i> quoted above from <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Truth,_not_verifiability" title="Wikipedia:Truth, not verifiability">WP:Truth, not verifiability</a>: <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">The distinction being made here is not really between truth and verifiability at all, but between the statements made by reliable sources (which we want to include in the encyclopedia), and the unsupported claims of Wikipedia editors (which we don't).</q> And, yeah, no real-world source says that the live action Constantine is part of the Arrowverse. It's your unsourced <i>opinion</i> that what's applied to the animated series should be applied to the previous live-action series because of in-universe reasons. No one, especially an encycopaedia, has to agree with your opinion. <a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote">DonQuixote</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:DonQuixote" title="User talk:DonQuixote">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-14T09:31:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:47, 14 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-14T09:31:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z-Huggums537-2017-12-14T09:31:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-14T17:33:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z"></span>People can choose to agree with me if they want to. You can choose to take a hike and kick around some rocks if you want to. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-14T17:33:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:33, 14 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-14T17:33:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-14T17:33:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><a href="/wiki/User:DonQuixote" title="User:DonQuixote"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-19T22:02:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z"></span>DonQuixote</a>, I must apologize for my somewhat uncivil comment. I was getting frustrated about investing much more time than I thought was needed for my original post and I shouldn't have taken it out on you. I'm sure other people might have been way more uncivil to you in the past, but that doesn't mean I couldn't have terminated the discussion more civilly. Please forgive my rudeness. Thanks. <a href="/wiki/User:Huggums537" title="User:Huggums537">Huggums537</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Huggums537" title="User talk:Huggums537">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Huggums537-2017-12-19T22:02:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:02, 19 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Huggums537-2017-12-19T22:02:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Huggums537-2017-12-19T22:02:00.000Z-DonQuixote-2017-12-14T16:47:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-12T00:46:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Can we end this discussion, please? The evidence for Supergirl's inclusion is overwhelming. <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://screenrant.com/arrow-titans-crossover-marc-guggenheim/">Here</a> it is in plain English: "Supergirl originally started as a completely separate series. <b>Now it has been incorporated fully into the Arrowverse</b>, even though it takes place on another Earth." This is from a reliable source. And it's one of many I have cited here in the past. I can do a three-second Google search and come up with dozens more. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-12-12T00:46:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:46, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-12T00:46:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-12-12T00:46:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T00:49:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-12T00:46:00.000Z"></span>No, we cannot just end a discussion because <i>you</i> personally want to. Allow the discussion to continue to its natural end when a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:CONSENSUS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:CONSENSUS">CONSENSUS</a> is formed. -- <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexTheWhovian" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AlexTheWhovian"><span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span></a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlexTheWhovian#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AlexTheWhovian"><sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T00:49:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-12T00:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:49, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T00:49:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-12T00:46:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T00:49:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-12T00:46:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-12T16:48:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T00:49:00.000Z"></span>That’s was a rhetorically question. But you didn’t address the substances of my post. <a href="/wiki/User:Jmj713" title="User:Jmj713">Jmj713</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jmj713" title="User talk:Jmj713">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Jmj713-2017-12-12T16:48:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T00:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:48, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jmj713-2017-12-12T16:48:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T00:49:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jmj713-2017-12-12T16:48:00.000Z-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T00:49:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T16:52:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-12T16:48:00.000Z"></span>Because you're repeating yourself over and over again. Why reply to what has already been asked? -- <b><a href="/wiki/User:AlexTheWhovian" class="mw-redirect" title="User:AlexTheWhovian"><span style="color:#1632E0;text-shadow:1px 1px 8px #324A6E;">Alex</span></a></b><i><a href="/wiki/User_talk:AlexTheWhovian#top" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:AlexTheWhovian"><sup><span style="color:#1632E0">TW</span></sup></a></i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T16:52:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-12T16:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:52, 12 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T16:52:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-12T16:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-AlexTheWhovian-2017-12-12T16:52:00.000Z-Jmj713-2017-12-12T16:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <hr/> <dl><dd><i>The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl></div><div style="clear:both;"></div> <hr/> <dl><dd><i>The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</i></dd></dl></div><div style="clear:both;"></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Further_actions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Further_actions-Supergirl-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Further_actions-Supergirl-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"></span>Further actions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Further_actions-Supergirl-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"></span></h3></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z-Further_actions"></span>If the consensus is to include <i>Supergirl</i> in our definition of the Arrowverse, then the article needs to be adjusted so that it isn't about the shared universe interpretation, and is instead about the media franchise interpretation. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z-Further_actions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:01, 14 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z-Further_actions"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z-Further_actions"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T07:28:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"></span>What does "shared universe" mean? Traditionally, I would think it refers to a setting being shared by various writers, regardless of what the fictional, in-universe definition of "universe" is, and under that assumption he two would be synonymous. I can't figure out how "shared universe" (specifically the <i>shared</i> part) could refer specifically to Earth-1. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T07:28:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:28, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T07:28:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T07:28:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T09:44:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T07:28:00.000Z"></span>Universe means universe. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T09:44:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T07:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:44, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T09:44:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T07:28:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T09:44:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T07:28:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T11:48:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T09:44:00.000Z"></span>As several times before, I must ask you to please drop the tone. I asked you what you mean by "shared universe", and you answered a completely different question with a meaningless "X=X". You are clearly using "universe" in an in-universe sense that includes only one of several (very transversible) parallel dimensions, which is not how "shared universe" is normally used in real-world writing about fiction. In fact, "shared" is nonsense if we assume your definition of "universe". <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T11:48:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T09:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:48, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T11:48:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T09:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T11:48:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T09:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kailash29792-2018-01-15T15:21:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T11:48:00.000Z"></span>Sorry I didn't take part in the RfC because I unwatched the page due to how it clutters my watchlist. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri88</a>, in DC Comics terminology (and that of the DC-CW franchise runners), a "universe" consists of only one Earth. A set of universes make a <a href="/wiki/Multiverse" title="Multiverse">multiverse</a>. Hence, each Earth is referred to as a "<a href="/wiki/Parallel_universes_in_fiction" title="Parallel universes in fiction">parallel universe</a>". Although <a href="/wiki/Katie_McGrath" title="Katie McGrath">Katie McGrath</a> (a series regular on <i>Supergirl</i>) has confirmed that <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://collider.com/supergirl-season-2-katie-mcgrath-interview/">the series is indeed part of the Arrowverse</a> (when the term is used as a franchise to mean DC-CW shows sharing continuity), I don't understand why no-one considers it reliable enough. ----<span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family: Papyrus"><a href="/wiki/User:Kailash29792" title="User:Kailash29792"><b style="color: black;">Kailash29792</b></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kailash29792" title="User talk:Kailash29792"><span style="color: black;">(talk)</span></a> </span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Kailash29792-2018-01-15T15:21:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T11:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:21, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kailash29792-2018-01-15T15:21:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T11:48:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kailash29792-2018-01-15T15:21:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T11:48:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T20:17:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2018-01-15T15:21:00.000Z"></span>Yes, I know that, as I explained above (<i>You are clearly using "universe" in an in-universe sense</i>). But "shared universe" only has a real-world definition that doesn't fit with the in-universe "only one Earth" definition. It wouldn't make sense to interpret it the way Adamstom is. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T20:17:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2018-01-15T15:21:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:17, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T20:17:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2018-01-15T15:21:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T20:17:00.000Z-Kailash29792-2018-01-15T15:21:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T20:26:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T20:17:00.000Z"></span>I'm not using any "tone", I am being completely serious. Whether we are talking about the real world or in-universe, <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">universe means universe</q>. There is no secret meaning.</dd> <dd>I suggest we use wording along the lines of "The Arrowverse is an American media franchise centred on several television series set in a shared universe and wider multiverse", with appropriate hyperlinks and further explanations if required. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T20:26:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T20:17:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T20:26:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T20:17:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T20:26:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T20:17:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:08:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T20:26:00.000Z"></span>No, you are using the word "universe" in an in-universe sense of (to quote Kailash29792) "only one Earth". I have never seen the term "shared universe" used with this definition of "universe"; "shared universe" almost always refers to a fictional setting shared my two or more writers, without regard to how many "universes" exist in said fictional setting. No one queries the claim that <i>Enterprise</i> is "set in the <i>Star Trek</i> universe" even though <i>technically</i> two of its episodes were set in the Mirror Universe. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:08:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T20:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:08, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:08:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T20:26:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:08:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T20:26:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:19:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:08:00.000Z"></span>I am not using it in an in-universe way, I am talking about the real world. If you google "define universe", the first definition is what I am referring to and what I assumed everyone else was using as well. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:19:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:19, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:19:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:08:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:19:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:08:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:27:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:19:00.000Z"></span>I tried that, and I got MW telling me that it means <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">the whole body of things and phenomena observed or postulated</q>; under this definition, two television shows that include in-continuity crossovers must be set in the same universe. And "shared universe" wouldn't work under the fictional, in-universe definition you are working wih under which "Earth One" and the setting of <i>Supergirl</i> are different "universes". How many times do I have to explain this? <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:27:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:19:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:27, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:27:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:19:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:27:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:19:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:39:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:27:00.000Z"></span>Well, I got <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">all existing matter and space considered as a whole; the cosmos. The universe is believed to be at least 10 billion light years in diameter and contains a vast number of galaxies; it has been expanding since its creation in the Big Bang about 13 billion years ago.</q> That is what our universe is. In these shows, Earth One is a whole one of these universes, and <i>Supergirl</i> is set on a different one. So there is not a single shared universe. Most of the shows do share a universe (Earth One), and the ones that don't still exist within a shared multiverse that includes Earth One as well. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:39:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:39, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:39:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:39:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T22:27:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:24:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:39:00.000Z"></span>So, should we replace it with "shared multiverse"? It seems like most commenters interpreted "shared universe" the same way I did, and you are the only one saying that what the rest of us call a shared universe cannot be called a "universe" as it is instead a "multiverse", but I would not be averse to simply changing "uni-" to "multi-" if it will end this faster. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:24:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:24, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:24:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:39:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:24:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-15T22:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:27:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Joeyconnick" title="User:Joeyconnick">Joeyconnick</a>:</span> Would you mind commenting here? I'm assuming you are not using the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:THANK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:THANK">WP:THANK</a> function ironically and in fact agree with what I am writing, but no one else knows that as they can't see which edits you are thanking me for. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:27:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:27, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:27:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:27:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-14T08:01:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><ul><li><span class="template-ping"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Joeyconnick-2018-01-15T23:44:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:27:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri88</a>:</span> that's kinda a tacky move—if I had wanted to participate, I would have—obviously—participated. But sure: Wikipedia is not meant to be written <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INUNIVERSE" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INUNIVERSE">WP:INUNIVERSE</a>. In terms of a <i>fictional universe</i>, that means, as Hijiri88 has said, it doesn't matter how many "universes" (read: parallel dimensions) from a "multiverse" are portrayed in a show and/or multiple shows (be it *groan* 52 or otherwise): the entire endeavour (i.e. all the shows in which characters crossover to/from) takes place in one fictional universe from "our" perspective. I mean call it what you will: a "franchise space", a "shared fictional backdrop", I don't know. But from a real-world perspective, there's one "fictional universe" that encompasses all the CW DC shows... (except, just to be tricky/annoying, maybe not Black Lightning). The DC <i>movies</i>, of course, happen in another fictional universe (so far) as there have been no crossovers with the TV fictional universe. That's even if they portray multiple "universes"/Earths/dimensions within the DC films. The Arrowverse (hence its name: Arrow plus "verse") is a single fictional universe. Within that fictional universe, there's an "in-universe" concept of a multiverse with multiple Earths/universes. But from the perspective about collectively writing about the fiction happening within the context of the DC CW TV shows, there can be only one... fictional universe. —<a href="/wiki/User:Joeyconnick" title="User:Joeyconnick">Joeyconnick</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Joeyconnick" title="User talk:Joeyconnick">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Joeyconnick-2018-01-15T23:44:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:44, 15 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Joeyconnick-2018-01-15T23:44:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:27:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Joeyconnick-2018-01-15T23:44:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-15T23:27:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T00:33:00.000Z-Joeyconnick-2018-01-15T23:44:00.000Z"></span>Well, if I'm the only person who saw the word "universe" and actually thought it meant "universe", then I guess that's fine. But since there is obviously room for confusion here, we should still be careful with the terminology we are using throughout the article. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T00:33:00.000Z-Joeyconnick-2018-01-15T23:44:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:33, 16 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T00:33:00.000Z-Joeyconnick-2018-01-15T23:44:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T00:33:00.000Z-Joeyconnick-2018-01-15T23:44:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-16T02:57:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T00:33:00.000Z"></span>The definition of "universe" that you quoted above is practically (for our purposes) identical to the one I quoted, in that it doesn't allow for the possibility of "multiple universes". Parallel dimensions, assuming the exist (which, in the fictional Arrowverse, they definitely do), are by definition within, not apart from, "all existing matter and space considered as a whole". Your continued insistence that your variant (fictional, in-universe) understanding of what the word "universe" means is <i>the</i> meaning (<link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1248585704"><q class="inline-quote-talk">[I] saw the word "universe" and actually thought it meant "universe"</q>) and that the rest of us are somehow "wrong" is not appropriate. The shows all exist within the same fictional shared universe, even if the characters within the shows use the word "universe" to mean only one of a number of parallel, traversible dimensions. The terminology is not tricky if we make it clear that we are speaking in real-world terms even while writing about fiction. <a href="/wiki/User:Hijiri88" title="User:Hijiri88">Hijiri 88</a> (<small><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hijiri88" title="User talk:Hijiri88">聖</a><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Hijiri88" title="Special:Contributions/Hijiri88">やや</a></small>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Hijiri88-2018-01-16T02:57:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T00:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:57, 16 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-16T02:57:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T00:33:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hijiri88-2018-01-16T02:57:00.000Z-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T00:33:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T03:24:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-16T02:57:00.000Z"></span>No, I do know what the literal meaning of "universe" is, and it doesn't include all possible alternate universes (read <a href="/wiki/Multiverse" title="Multiverse">multiverse</a> for more). What I think is happening here is that while I thought a fictional universe was a literal fictional universe, others were using the general definition of universe (i.e. the car was the centre of his universe). Having a read of <a href="/wiki/Fictional_universe" title="Fictional universe">fictional universe</a> I now see that this is the standard definition, so again I say that I no longer have a problem with this. But that still doesn't mean that our literal universe could possibly include multiple universes. - <a href="/wiki/User:Adamstom.97" title="User:Adamstom.97">adamstom97</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Adamstom.97" title="User talk:Adamstom.97">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7#c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T03:24:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-16T02:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:24, 16 January 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T03:24:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-16T02:57:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Adamstom.97-2018-01-16T03:24:00.000Z-Hijiri88-2018-01-16T02:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7&oldid=1136531472">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Arrowverse/Archive_7&oldid=1136531472</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 30 January 2023, at 20:16<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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