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Dez 2024, 07:48"><i class="fa fa-clock-o"></i></a> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <ul class="dropdown-contents"> <li>Aktuelle Zeit: Mi 25. Dez 2024, 07:48</li> <li>Alle Zeiten sind <span title="UTC+2">UTC+02:00</span></li> </ul> </div> </li> </ul> </div> <h2 class="topic-title"><a href="./../geld-anlage-f209/gruende-der-finanzkrise-t345.html?sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd">Gründe der Finanzkrise</a></h2> <!-- NOTE: remove the style="display: none" when you want to have the forum description on the topic body --> <div class="action-bar bar-top"> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=reply&amp;t=345&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" class="button" title="Antwort erstellen"> <span>Antworten</span> <i class="icon fa-reply fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-button-control topic-tools"> <span title="Themen-Optionen" class="button button-secondary dropdown-trigger dropdown-select"> <i class="icon fa-wrench fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="caret"><i class="icon fa-sort-down fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i></span> </span> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <ul class="dropdown-contents"> <li> <a href="./../viewtopic.php?t=345&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd&amp;view=print" title="Druckansicht" accesskey="p"> <i class="icon fa-print fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span>Druckansicht</span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <div class="search-box" role="search"> <form method="get" id="topic-search" action="./../search.php?sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd"> <fieldset> <input class="inputbox search tiny" type="search" name="keywords" id="search_keywords" size="20" placeholder="Thema durchsuchen…" /> <button class="button button-search" type="submit" title="Suche"> <i class="icon fa-search fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Suche</span> </button> <a href="./../search.php?sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" class="button button-search-end" title="Erweiterte Suche"> <i class="icon fa-cog fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Erweiterte Suche</span> </a> <input type="hidden" name="t" value="345" /> <input type="hidden" name="sf" value="msgonly" /> <input type="hidden" name="sid" value="fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" /> </fieldset> </form> </div> <div class="pagination"> 2 Beiträge &bull; Seite <strong>1</strong> von <strong>1</strong> </div> </div> <div id="p843" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile843"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=215&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" class="username">Quasimodo</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Beiträge:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=215&amp;sr=posts&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd">11</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Registriert:</strong> So 30. Aug 2009, 19:44</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-plz"><strong>Postcode:</strong> 59269</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-land"><strong>Country:</strong> Germany</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content843"> <h3 class="first"><a href="#p843">Gründe der Finanzkrise</a></h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="/app.php/post/843/report?sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" title="Diesen Beitrag melden" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-exclamation fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Diesen Beitrag melden</span> </a> </li> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&amp;p=843&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" title="Mit Zitat antworten" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Zitat</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../geld-anlage-f209/gruende-der-finanzkrise-t345.html?sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd#p843" title="Beitrag"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Beitrag</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">von <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=215&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" class="username">Quasimodo</a></strong> &raquo; </span>Mo 21. Sep 2009, 16:40 </p> <div class="content">In meinem letzten Thread zu diesem Thema „Die wahren Hintergründe der Finanzkrise“, habe ich von Helios und von Rosen sehr detailliert erklärt bekommen, was die Auslöser der Finanzkrise waren. Vielen Dank noch mal an die beiden! Eines ist mir aber noch unklar. Wie können „ein paar“ geplatzte Immobilienfinanzierungen mehrere Banken in den Abgrund ziehen und noch einige mehr bis kurz davor. Mir will einfach nicht in den Kopf wie zum Beispiel die Hypo Real Estate HRE die zwar eine Immobilienbank ist aber eine der größten ist, pleite gegangen wäre nur wegen einem Down im Immobilienmarkt. Von denen gab es in der Vergangenheit doch einige. Ok der letzte Fall der Immobilienpreise war wohl etwas schlimmer, doch wird eine Immobilienbank sicherlich nicht so wirtschaften, dass sie bei einer größeren Immobilienkrise die Hufe hoch reißt. Außerdem scheint ja das Risiko bei den<br> Subprime Mortages doch bekannt zu sein. Dieses sollte doch in den Zukunftsmodellen der Banken mit eingeflossen sein.</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Nach oben"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Nach oben</span> </a> </div> </div> <div id="p854" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile854"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=218&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" class="username">Rosen</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Beiträge:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=218&amp;sr=posts&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd">14</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Registriert:</strong> Fr 4. Sep 2009, 13:17</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-plz"><strong>Postcode:</strong> 0</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-land"><strong>Country:</strong> Germany</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content854"> <h3 ><a href="#p854">Re: Gründe der Finanzkrise</a></h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="/app.php/post/854/report?sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" title="Diesen Beitrag melden" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-exclamation fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Diesen Beitrag melden</span> </a> </li> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&amp;p=854&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" title="Mit Zitat antworten" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Zitat</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../geld-anlage-f209/gruende-der-finanzkrise-t345.html?sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd#p854" title="Beitrag"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Beitrag</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">von <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=218&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" class="username">Rosen</a></strong> &raquo; </span>Fr 25. Sep 2009, 09:08 </p> <div class="content">Hallo Quasimodo,<br> <br> es freut mich sehr, dass du dich von meiner umfangreichen Antwort nicht abschrecken lassen hast. Es sollte eigentlich etwas kürzer gefasst sein, aber wenn ich mal anfange zu schreiben, bleibt diese Vorgabe meistens auf der Strecke. Deine Frage spielt auf einen sehr komplizierten und undurchsichtigen Bereich der Finanzwelt an. Diese Finanzkrise hat die enge Verwobenheit und den extremen Wildwuchs zu Tage geführt. Obwohl ich mich fr diesen Bereich interessiere, würde ich nicht behaupten, dass ich das volle Ausmaß kenne, werde aber versuchen meinen Kenntnisstand wider zugeben. Dein eingehend genanntes Beispiel der HRE ist gut gewählt, da die Medien und vor allem der Bund sich hier langsam in die Thematik einarbeiten. Doch hier sollte man in den Medien klar zwischen bewiesenen Fakten und Legenden unterscheiden. Das der ehemalige Chef der HRE in den Medien zum Sündenbock erkören wurde ist völlig übertrieben und verschleiert das wahre Ausmaß der Zusammenhänge. Lassen wir die Gründung der HRE erstmal außen vor. Eigentlich hätte es mit der HRE gar nicht so weit kommen müssen, wenn sie im Oktober 2007 nicht mit einer Bank fusioniert hätte, die eigentlich gar nichts mit Immobilien am Hut hat. Es handelte sich dabei um die irische Depfa plc. Diese Bank hatte über 200 Milliarden Euro an Staaten in aller Welt verliehen mit Laufzeiten bis 30 Jahre verliehen, was eigentlich eine solide Geschäftsbasis ist, wenn es ihr eigenes Geld gewesen wäre. Doch die Manager besorgten sich das Geld bei anderen Finanzinstituten. Genau genommen nahmen sie das Geld aus Geldmarkt. Dieses Geld war billig, was heißen soll, dass die Zinsen niedrig waren. Das Problem ist nur, dass die Laufzeiten dieser kurzfristigen Kredite sehr kurz ist (Monate). Dieses sehr riskante Geschäftsmodell brachte der Bank zu Zeiten vor der Finanzkrise große Gewinne. Der Geldmarkt war voll und daher stellte die Finanzierung kein Problem dar. Das änderte sich zu Beginn der Finanzkrise Anfang 2007. Die Zinsen stiegen, damit schrumpfte die Marge der Depfa plc zunehmend. Zu diesem Zeitpunkt hatte die HRE zwar Verluste, doch im Grunde waren diese zu dieser Zeit marktüblich. Hier könnte man einstreuen, dass bonimotivierte Bankmanager Verluste scheuen wie der Teufel das Weihwasser gerade nach Zeiten bzw. in Zeiten wo andre Gewinne machen. Das könnte in solchen Situationen zu kurzfristig gedachten in manchen Fällen auch zu gänzlich unüberlegten Schritten führen. Wie auch immer, Herr Funke (Chef der HRE) suchte Heilung durch Größe und sah ein gutes Geschäft in dieser Fusion. Geprägt durch die ersten Bankinsolvenzen sinkt das Vertrauen der Banken untereinander rapide. Für die Depfa plc, die ja nun in der HRE ist, wird die Finanzierung ihrer Verbindlichkeiten immer schwerer. Viele Banken verkaufen in ihrer Beklemmtheit andere Wertpapiere, doch die wenige Zahl der Interessenten und das reiche Angebot führt zu einem niedrigen Verkaufswert bzw. wenig Liquiditätsgewinn. Für die HRE wird es jetzt kritisch. Andre Banken sollen aushelfen (unter der Führung der Deutschen Bank). Doch diese können (oder wollen) die Probleme nicht allein stemmen. Der Staat muss aushelfen.<br> <br> Wie man bei meinen Ausführungen erahnen kann, gibt es viele Ungereimtheiten. Aus meiner Sicht sollte diese Krise zu folgenden Veränderungen führen. Mehr staatliche Kontrolle für systemrelevante Banken und diese die es werden wollen. Vorsichtiger Umgang mit Bonuszahlungen auch mit Acht auf zukünftige Entwicklungen!!! Ich finde es ehrlich gesagt eine Frechheit von einigen Managern, die zunehmende staatliche Kontrolle zu unterbinden, sich für freie Entfaltung der Wirtschaft zu plädieren und auf der anderen Seite sich in Krisen vom Steuerzahler wieder hoch helfen zu lassen am besten natürlich kostenlos, zinslos oder zumindest zinsgünstig.</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Nach oben"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Nach oben</span> </a> </div> </div> <div class="action-bar bar-bottom"> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=reply&amp;t=345&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd" class="button" title="Antwort erstellen"> <span>Antworten</span> <i class="icon fa-reply fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-button-control topic-tools"> <span title="Themen-Optionen" class="button button-secondary dropdown-trigger dropdown-select"> <i class="icon fa-wrench fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="caret"><i class="icon fa-sort-down fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i></span> </span> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <ul class="dropdown-contents"> <li> <a href="./../viewtopic.php?t=345&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd&amp;view=print" title="Druckansicht" accesskey="p"> <i class="icon fa-print fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span>Druckansicht</span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <form method="post" action="./../viewtopic.php?t=345&amp;sid=fd2b33adc7bc6fbc49a16b4f06c837bd"> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-container-left dropdown-button-control sort-tools"> <span title="Anzeige- und Sortierungs-Einstellungen" class="button button-secondary dropdown-trigger dropdown-select"> <i class="icon fa-sort-amount-asc fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="caret"><i class="icon fa-sort-down fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i></span> </span> <div class="dropdown hidden"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents"> <fieldset class="display-options"> <label>Anzeigen: <select name="st" id="st"><option value="0" selected="selected">Alle Beiträge</option><option value="1">1 Tag</option><option value="7">7 Tage</option><option value="14">2 Wochen</option><option value="30">1 Monat</option><option value="90">3 Monate</option><option value="180">6 Monate</option><option value="365">1 Jahr</option></select></label> <label>Sortiere nach: <select name="sk" id="sk"><option value="a">Autor</option><option value="t" selected="selected">Erstellungsdatum</option><option value="s">Betreff</option></select></label> <label>Richtung: <select name="sd" id="sd"><option value="a" selected="selected">Aufsteigend</option><option value="d">Absteigend</option></select></label> <hr class="dashed" /> <input type="submit" class="button2" name="sort" value="Los" /> </fieldset> </div> </div> </div> </form> <div class="pagination"> 2 Beiträge &bull; 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