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href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content_criteria&redirect=no" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content criteria">Wikipedia talk:Non-free content criteria</a>)</span><br /> <div class="ext-discussiontools-init-pageframe-latestcomment">Latest comment: <a href="#c-139.218.73.237-20241127152000-Blackballnz-20241108234100">22 hours ago</a> by 139.218.73.237 in topic <a href="#Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery">Photo from National Portrait Gallery</a></div></div> </div> <div id="bodyContent" class="content"> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-lede-button-container"><span id='ooui-php-24' class='ext-discussiontools-init-lede-button oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"info","label":"Learn more about this 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#b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-image{border:none;padding:2px 0 2px 0.9em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-imageright{border:none;padding:2px 0.9em 2px 0;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-empty-cell{border:none;padding:0;width:1px}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-invalid-type{text-align:center}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 10%}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{clear:right;float:right;margin:4px 0 4px 1em;width:238px}}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox{background-color:#2e2505}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{background-color:#310402}}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output table.tmbox img{max-width:none!important}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1230750088">.mw-parser-output .talkheader{text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-body{display:flex}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{display:flex;align-items:center;padding:0.1em}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help{flex:2 1 auto;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:var(--background-color-base,#ffffff);color:inherit}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies+.talkheader-policies{border-left:1px solid #c0c090}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts{flex:0 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies>*,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-shortcuts>*{flex:1 1 auto}.mw-parser-output .talkheader-help ul,.mw-parser-output .talkheader-policies ul{margin:0.1em 0.8em 0 1.6em;text-align:left}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .talkheader{min-width:80%}}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Non-free_content" title="Wikipedia:Non-free content">Non-free content</a> page.<br></td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content" title="Special:NewSection/Wikipedia talk:Non-free content">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? Welcome! <a href="/wiki/Help:Introduction" title="Help:Introduction">Learn to edit</a>; <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Questions" title="Wikipedia:Questions">get help</a>.</li></ul> </div> <div class="talkheader-policies"> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith" title="Wikipedia:Assume good faith">Assume good faith</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Civility" title="Wikipedia:Civility">Be polite</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks" title="Wikipedia:No personal attacks">avoid personal attacks</a></li> <li><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers" title="Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers">Be welcoming to newcomers</a></li> <li>Seek <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_requests" title="Wikipedia:Dispute resolution requests">dispute resolution</a> if needed</li></ul> </div> </div> </td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 1px 3px;"><b><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page" title="Help:Archiving a talk page">Archives</a>:</b> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_1" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 1">1</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_2" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 2">2</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_3" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 3">3</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_4" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 4">4</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_5" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 5">5</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_6" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 6">6</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_7" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 7">7</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_8" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 8">8</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_9" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 9">9</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_10" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 10">10</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_11" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 11">11</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_12" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 12">12</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_13" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 13">13</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_14" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 14">14</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_15" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 15">15</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_16" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 16">16</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_17" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 17">17</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_18" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 18">18</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_19" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 19">19</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_20" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 20">20</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_21" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 21">21</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_22" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 22">22</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_23" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 23">23</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_24" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 24">24</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_25" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 25">25</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_26" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 26">26</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_27" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 27">27</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_28" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 28">28</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_29" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 29">29</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_30" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 30">30</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_31" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 31">31</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_32" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 32">32</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_33" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 33">33</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_34" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 34">34</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_35" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 35">35</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_36" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 36">36</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_37" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 37">37</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_38" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 38">38</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_39" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 39">39</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_40" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 40">40</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_41" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 41">41</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_42" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 42">42</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_43" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 43">43</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_44" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 44">44</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_45" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 45">45</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_46" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 46">46</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_47" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 47">47</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_48" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 48">48</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_49" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 49">49</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_50" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 50">50</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_51" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 51">51</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_52" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 52">52</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_53" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 53">53</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_54" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 54">54</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_55" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 55">55</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_56" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 56">56</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_57" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 57">57</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_58" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 58">58</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_59" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 59">59</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_60" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 60">60</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_61" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 61">61</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_62" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 62">62</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_63" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 63">63</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_64" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 64">64</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_65" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 65">65</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_66" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 66">66</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_67" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 67">67</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_68" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 68">68</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_69" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 69">69</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_70" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 70">70</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_71" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 71">71</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_72" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 72">72</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_73" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 73">73</a>, <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content/Archive_74" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/Archive 74">74</a><span style="position: relative; top: 2px; float: right; font-size: 90%; margin-left: 1em;"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1038841319">.mw-parser-output .tooltip-dotted{border-bottom:1px dotted;cursor:help}</style><span class="rt-commentedText tooltip tooltip-dotted" title="Discussions with timestamps are automatically archived by ClueBot III after 336 hours of inactivity when more than 5 threads are present.">Auto-archiving period</span>: <b>14 days</b> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Help:Archiving_a_talk_page#Automated_archiving" title="Help:Archiving a talk page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/16px-Information_icon4.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/24px-Information_icon4.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1d/Information_icon4.svg/32px-Information_icon4.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="620" data-file-height="620"></a></span></span></td> </tr><tr><td style="border-top: 1px solid #c0c090; padding: 0;"><div> <div class="mw-inputbox-centered" style=""><form name="searchbox" class="searchbox mw-inputbox-form-inline" action="/wiki/Special:Search"><div class="cdx-text-input"><input class="mw-searchInput searchboxInput cdx-text-input__input" name="search" placeholder="" size="50" dir="ltr"></div><input type="hidden" value="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content/" name="prefix"> <input type="submit" name="fulltext" value="Search archives" class="cdx-button"><input type="hidden" value="Search" name="fulltext"></form></div> </div></td> </tr> </tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1243927654">.mw-parser-output .banner-shell{border-collapse:separate;border-spacing:4px}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-header{text-align:center;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{padding:2px 4px;background:#fffaef;color:inherit;border:1px dotted gray}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner{background:#2e2505}}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox{margin:2px 0;width:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell .tmbox.mbox-small{line-height:1.5em;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .banner-shell-inner .banner-shell-outside{display:none}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .wpbs{width:80%}}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .assess{width:60px;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-header{border:none;padding:0.25em 0.9em 0.25em 0}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-header{display:table-row}.mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb:not(.mw-collapsed) .wpb-header-icon a{display:none}</style><table role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice banner-shell wpbs mw-collapsible"><tbody><tr><td class="assess"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Symbol_project_class.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Project page"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/72/Symbol_project_class.svg/35px-Symbol_project_class.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="36" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/72/Symbol_project_class.svg/53px-Symbol_project_class.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/72/Symbol_project_class.svg/70px-Symbol_project_class.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"></a></span></td><td class="banner-shell-header" style="text-align:left;font-weight:normal">This project page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">content assessment</a> scale.<br>It is of interest to the following <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject">WikiProjects</a>:</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="banner-shell-inner 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.wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table inactive-wikiproject"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:People_icon_dead.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/25px-People_icon_dead.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/38px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/50px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fair_use" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Fair use">Fair use</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles"> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP">inactive</a>)</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:People_icon_dead.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/40px-People_icon_dead.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/60px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/80px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is within the scope of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Fair_use" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Fair use">WikiProject Fair use</a>, a project which is currently considered to be <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP">inactive</a></b>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Fair use</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Fair use</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Fair use</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Fair use articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table inactive-wikiproject"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:People_icon_dead.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/25px-People_icon_dead.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/38px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/50px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Images_and_Media" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Images and Media">Images and Media</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles"> (<a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP">inactive</a>)</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:People_icon_dead.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/40px-People_icon_dead.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/60px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6b/People_icon_dead.svg/80px-People_icon_dead.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This page is within the scope of <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Images_and_Media" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Images and Media">WikiProject Images and Media</a>, a project which is currently considered to be <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:INACTIVEWP">inactive</a></b>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Images and Media</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Images and Media</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Images and Media</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Images and Media articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Peacedove.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Peacedove.svg/40px-Peacedove.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="41" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Peacedove.svg/60px-Peacedove.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Peacedove.svg/80px-Peacedove.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="714" data-file-height="729"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">The project page associated with this talk page is an official <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines">policy</a> on Wikipedia. Policies have wide acceptance among editors and are considered a standard for all users to follow. Please review <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines#Substantive_changes" title="Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines">policy editing recommendations</a> before making any substantive change to this page. Always remember to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Staying_cool_when_the_editing_gets_hot" title="Wikipedia:Staying cool when the editing gets hot">keep cool when editing</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Don%27t_panic" title="Wikipedia:Don't panic">don't panic</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-notice" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Fairytale_key_enter.png" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png/40px-Fairytale_key_enter.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png/60px-Fairytale_key_enter.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Fairytale_key_enter.png 2x" data-file-width="64" data-file-height="64"></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">To help <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines#Centralized_talk_pages" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">centralize</a> discussions and keep related topics together, <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content_criteria&redirect=no">Wikipedia talk:Non-free content criteria</a></span> redirects here.</td></tr></tbody></table> <style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236090951">.mw-parser-output .hatnote{font-style:italic}.mw-parser-output div.hatnote{padding-left:1.6em;margin-bottom:0.5em}.mw-parser-output .hatnote i{font-style:normal}.mw-parser-output .hatnote+link+.hatnote{margin-top:-0.5em}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .hatnote{display:none!important}}</style><div role="note" class="hatnote navigation-not-searchable">See also: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content_criteria_exemptions" title="Wikipedia talk:Non-free content criteria exemptions">Wikipedia talk:Non-free content criteria exemptions</a></div> <div id="toc" class="toc" role="navigation" aria-labelledby="mw-toc-heading"><input type="checkbox" role="button" id="toctogglecheckbox" class="toctogglecheckbox" style="display:none"><div class="toctitle" lang="en" dir="ltr"><h2 id="mw-toc-heading">Contents</h2><span class="toctogglespan"><label class="toctogglelabel" for="toctogglecheckbox"></label></span></div> <ul> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-1"><a href="#%22WPT:NFCC%22_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">"WPT:NFCC" listed at Redirects for discussion</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-2"><a href="#NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles"><span class="tocnumber">2</span> <span class="toctext">NFLISTS and license plate articles</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-3"><a href="#Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files"><span class="tocnumber">3</span> <span class="toctext">Spoken word non-free audio files</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-4"><a href="#Photos_of_people_who_disappeared"><span class="tocnumber">4</span> <span class="toctext">Photos of people who disappeared</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-5"><a href="#Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery"><span class="tocnumber">5</span> <span class="toctext">Photo from National Portrait Gallery</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(1)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id='"WPT:NFCC"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion' data-mw-thread-id='h-"WPT:NFCC"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-20241104154900'><span id=".22WPT:NFCC.22_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id='h-"WPT:NFCC"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-20241104154900'></span>"<a href="/w/index.php?title=WPT:NFCC&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="WPT:NFCC (page does not exist)">WPT:NFCC</a>" listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">Redirects for discussion</a><span data-mw-comment-end='h-"WPT:NFCC"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion-20241104154900'></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content&action=edit&section=1" title='Edit section: "WPT:NFCC" listed at Redirects for discussion' class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-19' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Liz-20241104154900-"WPT:NFCC"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion">23 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-1 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-1"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id='c-Liz-20241104154900-"WPT:NFCC"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion'></span><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Information.svg" class="mw-file-description"><noscript><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/30px-Information.svg.png" decoding="async" width="30" height="30" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="256" data-file-height="256"></noscript><span class="lazy-image-placeholder" style="width: 30px;height: 30px;" data-src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/30px-Information.svg.png" data-width="30" data-height="30" data-srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/45px-Information.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/28/Information.svg/60px-Information.svg.png 2x" data-class="mw-file-element"> </span></a></span> The redirect <span class="plainlinks"><a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=WPT:NFCC&redirect=no">WPT:NFCC</a></span> has been listed at <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion">redirects for discussion</a> to determine whether its use and function meets the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirect" title="Wikipedia:Redirect">redirect guidelines</a>. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2024_November_4#WPT:NFCC" title="Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 4">Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 November 4 § WPT:NFCC</a></b> until a consensus is reached. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;"><a href="/wiki/User:Liz" title="User:Liz"><i><b>L</b></i>iz</a></span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;"><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Liz" title="Special:Contributions/Liz"><i><b>Read!</b></i></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Liz" title="User talk:Liz"><i><b>Talk!</b></i></a></sup> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Liz-20241104154900-%22WPT:NFCC%22_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:49, 4 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id='c-Liz-20241104154900-"WPT:NFCC"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion'><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end='c-Liz-20241104154900-"WPT:NFCC"_listed_at_Redirects_for_discussion'></span> </p> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(2)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles" data-mw-thread-id="h-NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles-20241105205200"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles-20241105205200"></span>NFLISTS and license plate articles<span data-mw-comment-end="h-NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles-20241105205200"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: NFLISTS and license plate articles" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-20' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-QuickWittedHare-20241108143500-Marchjuly-20241105205200">19 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-2 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-2"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Marchjuly-20241105205200-NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles"></span>I'm pretty sure might have been discussed before, but I figured it would be good to hear what others think about the non-free use of individual entries in articles like <a href="/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Nebraska" title="Vehicle registration plates of Nebraska">Vehicle registration plates of Nebraska</a>. For reference, I broached the point with the uploader at <a href="/wiki/User_talk:QuickWittedHare#Vehicle_registration_plates_of_Nebraska" title="User talk:QuickWittedHare">User talk:QuickWittedHare#Vehicle registration plates of Nebraska</a> but then sort of forgot about it. I was only reminded about today when the article popped up on my watchlist again. Most of the non-free images being used were uploaded as replacements for files deleted from Commons. That's not an argument in favor of their non-free use, but it just shows that they were uploaded in good faith. Is there anyway this kind of usage could be treated along the lines of national currency list articles. I'm not a big fan of those per se, but over time they seem to have become (a bit grudgingly perhaps) accepted for what they are. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Marchjuly" title="User:Marchjuly">Marchjuly</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Marchjuly" title="User talk:Marchjuly">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Marchjuly-20241105205200-NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:52, 5 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Marchjuly-20241105205200-NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles"><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Marchjuly-20241105205200-NFLISTS_and_license_plate_articles"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-QuickWittedHare-20241108143500-Marchjuly-20241105205200"></span>I'd argue that at least the current design that is used at the top of the page should be allowed and would qualify as fair use for commentary, as it is describing the (current) subject of the article. It's kinda hard to describe some of the newer US designs with words alone. At the end of the issuance it could be deleted.<br></dd> <dd>As for the actual lists, it may be the best to see if they can be used for the articles by emailing the DMV of the states in question.<br></dd> <dd>I will agree that it is kinda like banknotes where it is technically the subject of the article even if it isn't the currently issued design.<br></dd> <dd><span style="font-family:Times New Roman; background-color: #4b5320"><a href="/wiki/User:QuickWittedHare" title="User:QuickWittedHare"><span style="color: #FFD700">QUICKWITTEDHARE</span></a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:QuickWittedHare" title="User talk:QuickWittedHare"><span style="color: #FFD700"><sub>CONVERSE</sub></span></a></span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-QuickWittedHare-20241108143500-Marchjuly-20241105205200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:35, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-QuickWittedHare-20241108143500-Marchjuly-20241105205200"><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-QuickWittedHare-20241108143500-Marchjuly-20241105205200"></span></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(3)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files" data-mw-thread-id="h-Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files-20241106052800"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files-20241106052800"></span>Spoken word non-free audio files<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files-20241106052800"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Spoken word non-free audio files" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-21' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Masem-20241107132200-Marchjuly-20241106052800">21 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-3 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-3"><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Marchjuly-20241106052800-Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files"></span> Most of my experience when it comes to non-free content has been with respect to images. I understand that policy also allows non-free audio files, but I mostly see them used in music related articles. I'm not sure how policy treats non-free spoken word audio files like <a href="/wiki/File:The_voice_of_Ryan_Wesley_Routh,_the_alleged_attempted_assassin_of_Donald_Trump,_2022.ogg" title="File:The voice of Ryan Wesley Routh, the alleged attempted assassin of Donald Trump, 2022.ogg">File:The voice of Ryan Wesley Routh, the alleged attempted assassin of Donald Trump, 2022.ogg</a>.</p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p>It seems as if a non-free audio file of an interview would fail <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FREER" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FREER">WP:FREER</a> because a transcript of the interview could either be cited or quotes of what was said during the interview could be added and cited. Moreover, if there are no <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:COPYLINK" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:COPYLINK">WP:COPYLINK</a> issues, a link to the audio/video of the interview could be added to "External links" section.</p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p>It also seems unnecessary per <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NFCC#8" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NFCC">WP:NFCC#8</a> to simply hear someone's voice just for that reason alone unless their voice was perhaps the subject of critical commentary in reliable sources due to some unique characteristic.</p><div class="paragraphbreak" style="margin-top:0.5em"></div><p>There is also the issue of length and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NFCC#3" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NFCC">WP:NFCC#3</a>. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NFC#Audio_clips" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NFC">WP:NFC#Audio clips</a> states clips might be used, but it's not clear how long a "clip" is supposed to be. Is it 5%, 10%, 20% or some other percent of the total length of full audio file. Is there <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:IMAGERES" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:IMAGERES">WP:IMAGERES</a> guidance provided for audio files. The Routh audio file mentioned above is 1:45 long and comes from a 10 minute long YouTube video; so, that's about 20% of the total video (I guess). -- <a href="/wiki/User:Marchjuly" title="User:Marchjuly">Marchjuly</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Marchjuly" title="User talk:Marchjuly">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Marchjuly-20241106052800-Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:28, 6 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Marchjuly-20241106052800-Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files"><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Marchjuly-20241106052800-Spoken_word_non-free_audio_files"></span> </p><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masem-20241107132200-Marchjuly-20241106052800"></span>Spoken word clips should be treated both as NFC and as <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NPS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NPS">WP:NPS</a> related to quotations, which means the length of the quote/clip should be kept to a minimum. 1:45 minutes of a 10 min. video is far too much, we're talking maybe what takes 3 or 4 sentences to be used. External media that is relevant can always be linked to in the article (we have a template box for that) if the full source (made available by the copyright owner) is out there.</dd> <dd>but all NFCC also applies - if the spoken text comes across just as well as in text quotes (which are FREER) the audio sample is wholly unnecessary. <a href="/wiki/User:Masem" title="User:Masem">M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masem" title="User talk:Masem">t</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Masem-20241107132200-Marchjuly-20241106052800" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:22, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masem-20241107132200-Marchjuly-20241106052800"><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masem-20241107132200-Marchjuly-20241106052800"></span></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(4)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Photos_of_people_who_disappeared" data-mw-thread-id="h-Photos_of_people_who_disappeared-20241107115900"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Photos_of_people_who_disappeared-20241107115900"></span>Photos of people who disappeared<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Photos_of_people_who_disappeared-20241107115900"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Photos of people who disappeared" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-22' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Masem-20241109013900-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000">19 days ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>7 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>4 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-4 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-4"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nil_Einne-20241107115900-Photos_of_people_who_disappeared"></span>This came up recently in a FFD. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Files_for_discussion/2024_November_4#File:Phillips_family.jpg" title="Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2024 November 4">Wikipedia:Files for discussion/2024 November 4#File:Phillips family.jpg</a> We seem to have quite a lot of photos of people who disappeared even in cases where there's a reasonable suspicion that the person is still alive. Sometimes this even includes age progression images which only make sense when it's assumed the person might still be alive. Or perhaps to put it a different way the age progression is only needed if the person is alive. We're less likely to have images when the person seems to be presumed dead which I guess makes sense since in those cases while NFCC#1 might be clearer, NFCC#8 is not (readers don't need to know what they look like). The FFD above seems to be leaning towards delete, so I'm wondering if we have a wider problem we need to take care of. <a href="/wiki/User:Nil_Einne" title="User:Nil Einne">Nil Einne</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Nil_Einne" title="User talk:Nil Einne">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Nil_Einne-20241107115900-Photos_of_people_who_disappeared" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nil_Einne-20241107115900-Photos_of_people_who_disappeared"><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nil_Einne-20241107115900-Photos_of_people_who_disappeared"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masem-20241107131400-Nil_Einne-20241107115900"></span>Personally, unless there was some notable visual feature about the missing person, we don't need an image of the person on a page about a missing person (eg NFCC#8 fails), but I know many others assert that it is essential to see the image of the person that is being talked about. In NFCC terms, it is fair that for a person that has been missing for several months/years, we cannot readily expect to take a public photo of them, so there is at least some reasonable allowance for it.</dd> <dd>We are <i>certainly</i> not a missing-person finder so things like age-progression images are not appropriate at all (I am sure in such cases, references and ELs will include sites with that). Usually in such cases, the last known photo of the person is what becomes tied to the public knowledge of the case, so that's the only real (non-free) image that should be used. <a href="/wiki/User:Masem" title="User:Masem">M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masem" title="User talk:Masem">t</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Masem-20241107131400-Nil_Einne-20241107115900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:14, 7 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masem-20241107131400-Nil_Einne-20241107115900"><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masem-20241107131400-Nil_Einne-20241107115900"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Traumnovelle-20241108204600-Masem-20241107131400"></span>The person in this instance isn't exactly disappeared in the sense of 'likely dead/kidnapped', he (and his kids) are intentionally avoiding society and we know his rough location. So I don't think this is a one-to-one with most disappearances. I agree though that NFCC#8 isn't really applicable to understanding a disappearance. <a href="/wiki/User:Traumnovelle" title="User:Traumnovelle">Traumnovelle</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Traumnovelle" title="User talk:Traumnovelle">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Traumnovelle-20241108204600-Masem-20241107131400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Traumnovelle-20241108204600-Masem-20241107131400"><span id="ooui-php-8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Traumnovelle-20241108204600-Masem-20241107131400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masem-20241108210400-Traumnovelle-20241108204600"></span>We have allowed NFC of living persons who are known to purposely avoid public and are recluse, but that still urges NFCC#8 to be satisfied<span id="Masem:1731099863774:Wikipedia_talkFTTCLNNon-free_content" class="FTTCmt"> — <a href="/wiki/User:Masem" title="User:Masem">M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masem" title="User talk:Masem">t</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Masem-20241108210400-Traumnovelle-20241108204600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:04, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masem-20241108210400-Traumnovelle-20241108204600"><span id="ooui-php-9" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masem-20241108210400-Traumnovelle-20241108204600"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000-Masem-20241108210400"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Masem" title="User:Masem">Masem</a> We have? <a href="/wiki/User:PARAKANYAA" title="User:PARAKANYAA">PARAKANYAA</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PARAKANYAA" title="User talk:PARAKANYAA">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000-Masem-20241108210400" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:10, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000-Masem-20241108210400"><span id="ooui-php-10" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000-Masem-20241108210400"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Masem-20241109013900-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000"></span>The general rule on photos of living persons is based on the fact that they likely will appear in a public place and thus a free photo can be taken. For people that either cannot be in public (such as those in jail) or that are purposely avoiding public places (documented as such) then this is generally not possible so we'd allow for a non-free to be used if such is otherwise appropriate for NFC.<span id="Masem:1731116389258:Wikipedia_talkFTTCLNNon-free_content" class="FTTCmt"> — <a href="/wiki/User:Masem" title="User:Masem">M<span style="font-variant: small-caps">asem</span></a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Masem" title="User talk:Masem">t</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Masem-20241109013900-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:39, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Masem-20241109013900-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000"></span></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Masem-20241109013900-PARAKANYAA-20241109011000"><span id="ooui-php-11" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-PARAKANYAA-20241108033700-Nil_Einne-20241107115900"></span>To copy what I said at that FFD: With disappearances: if they are the presumed dead kind of disappearance, and it has been a reasonable amount of time, then it may apply. This is about the case of a family subject to a recent disappearance who is recognizably still alive. No one knows where they are but a photo of them was just taken. So the reasons for the exception given for historical photos is not present here. If they are presumed alive but no one can find them, no. An image could still, in theory, be taken of them that is free. In theory, someone could just meet them and take a photo, however unlikely that is, but there are plenty of living people who it is unlikely to see and we can't upload NFCC of them except in truly exceptional circumstances where it is certain they will <i>never</i> be accessible to the public. I do think it enhances understanding but still, the replacability factor. <a href="/wiki/User:PARAKANYAA" title="User:PARAKANYAA">PARAKANYAA</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:PARAKANYAA" title="User talk:PARAKANYAA">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-PARAKANYAA-20241108033700-Nil_Einne-20241107115900" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:37, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-PARAKANYAA-20241108033700-Nil_Einne-20241107115900"><span id="ooui-php-12" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-PARAKANYAA-20241108033700-Nil_Einne-20241107115900"></span></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(5)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery" data-mw-thread-id="h-Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery-20241108234100"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery-20241108234100"></span>Photo from National Portrait Gallery<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery-20241108234100"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Photo from National Portrait Gallery" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-23' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-139.218.73.237-20241127152000-Blackballnz-20241108234100">22 hours ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>6 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>5 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-5 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-5"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blackballnz-20241108234100-Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery"></span>Hello - I wrote the page <a href="/wiki/Mavis_Wheeler" title="Mavis Wheeler">Mavis Wheeler</a>, which I think would benefit from having a photo. I asked about this before - thank you @<a href="/wiki/User:Marchjuly" title="User:Marchjuly">Marchjuly</a> (<a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions/Archive/2024/September#c-Marchjuly-20240921104500-Blackballnz-20240921051800">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Media_copyright_questions/Archive/2024/September#c-Marchjuly-20240921104500-Blackballnz-20240921051800</a>) but this is now archived, so I think I have to ask again. I've emailed the National Portrait Gallery about their photo of Mavis Wheeler, and their Rights & Images section has replied: "We (National Portrait Gallery) have no objection to low-resolution images being used on Wikipedia for non-commercial purposes." So, does this mean I can use it? I'd also like to use a portrait of Mavis by August John, but I suspect this would be too difficult. Thanks in advance. <a href="/wiki/User:Blackballnz" title="User:Blackballnz">Blackballnz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blackballnz" title="User talk:Blackballnz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Blackballnz-20241108234100-Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blackballnz-20241108234100-Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery"><span id="ooui-php-13" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Blackballnz-20241108234100-Photo_from_National_Portrait_Gallery"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hammersoft-20241109020300-Blackballnz-20241108234100"></span>There's no free license we can use it under here. Wikipedia and Commons only accept CC licenses that include commercial use, which the NPG is specifically denying. You'd have to use it under terms of our <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:NFCC" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:NFCC">non-free content criteria policy</a>. That said, there's a chance it's in the public domain, NPG's protestations not withstanding. It is not uncommon for entities in possession of such works to defend copyright even when it's very apparent the works are in the public domain. But, figuring out whether it's in the public domain or not is complicated by the fact that the author is not stipulated on the image description at <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw52747/Mavis-Wheeler-ne-Mabel-Winifred-Mary-Wright?LinkID=mp54727&rNo=0">[1]</a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Hammersoft" title="User:Hammersoft">Hammersoft</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hammersoft" title="User talk:Hammersoft">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Hammersoft-20241109020300-Blackballnz-20241108234100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:03, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hammersoft-20241109020300-Blackballnz-20241108234100"><span id="ooui-php-14" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hammersoft-20241109020300-Blackballnz-20241108234100"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Marchjuly-20241109073300-Blackballnz-20241108234100"></span>Just going to add that the resolution of the image shouldn't matter regardless of its copyright status even when it comes to CC licenses as long as the image is essentially the same. The NPG might be claiming that digitalization of public domain images into high-res versions is sufficient to establish a new copyright for the better version, but I don't think this is supported by case law. I've also seen discussions on Commons regarding whether it would be acceptable to increase the resolution of a low-resolution images released under the type of CC licenses that Commons accepts, and almost all the comments implied that it should be OK. Even Googling whether such a thing is OK finds <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-cc-license-to-low-resolution-copies-of-a-licensed-work-and-reserve-more-rights-in-high-resolution-copies">this</a> on the CC official website itself stating its OK; so, given that a PD image is by definition one that is not protected by copyright, the NPG trying to claim such a thing with respect to a PD image is probably going to be ignored by Commons. What the NPG might be banking on is that those wanting to reuse their images will enter into a separate or supplemental agreement with the NPG to only use the images in certain way at a certain resolution, but <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:NCR" class="extiw" title="c:COM:NCR">this type of thing</a> is also typically ignored by Commons. If, however, you willingly enter into such an agreement with the NPG but then violate its terms, the NPG might try to take action against you for that but not for a copyright violation (I think). Once again, you probably should ask about this at <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/COM:VPC" class="extiw" title="c:COM:VPC">c:COM:VPC</a> since that where the image should be hosted if it's PD. The only reasons I can think of for which Wikipedia would need to host this image are (1) it's non-free content, and (2) it's PD in the US but not in its country of first publication. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Marchjuly" title="User:Marchjuly">Marchjuly</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Marchjuly" title="User talk:Marchjuly">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Marchjuly-20241109073300-Blackballnz-20241108234100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:33, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Marchjuly-20241109073300-Blackballnz-20241108234100"><span id="ooui-php-15" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Marchjuly-20241109073300-Blackballnz-20241108234100"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-19h00s-20241109143600-Marchjuly-20241109073300"></span>+++ To your analysis re: the case law, mechanical reproductions (including digitized scans) of works in the public domain are automatically themselves in the public domain. The scan isn't transformative enough to make anything new. If the original photo is PD, so is the scan, unless NPG substantially edited or remixed the image, presumably not the case here. Love me a good museum and big love to other GLAM folks, but unfortunately the reality of working with living artists and artists' estates - who can sometimes make wildly inaccurate claims about their copyright ownership that museums generally respect in order to keep those third parties satisfied enough to make major loans of art and agree to reproductions - seems to have infected many museums' attitudes toward copyright in general, including in situations with clear-cut case law that favor free use of digitized PD material. --<a href="/wiki/User:19h00s" title="User:19h00s">19h00s</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:19h00s" title="User talk:19h00s">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-19h00s-20241109143600-Marchjuly-20241109073300" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:36, 9 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-19h00s-20241109143600-Marchjuly-20241109073300"><span id="ooui-php-16" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-19h00s-20241109143600-Marchjuly-20241109073300"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Blackballnz-20241110014800-19h00s-20241109143600"></span>Thanks for all this. A similar question has been asked at the Teahouse (<a class="external free" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse#Is_CC-BY-NC-ND-3.0_acceptable_on_en.wikipedia_for_a_specific_image_on_a_specific_page">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Teahouse#Is_CC-BY-NC-ND-3.0_acceptable_on_en.wikipedia_for_a_specific_image_on_a_specific_page</a>?) and the answer seems to be that it can be used. <a href="/wiki/User:Blackballnz" title="User:Blackballnz">Blackballnz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Blackballnz" title="User talk:Blackballnz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-Blackballnz-20241110014800-19h00s-20241109143600" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:48, 10 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Blackballnz-20241110014800-19h00s-20241109143600"><span id="ooui-php-17" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled 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title="Special:Contributions/139.218.73.237">139.218.73.237</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:139.218.73.237&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:139.218.73.237 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Non-free_content#c-139.218.73.237-20241127152000-Blackballnz-20241108234100" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:20, 27 November 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-139.218.73.237-20241127152000-Blackballnz-20241108234100"><span id="ooui-php-18" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a 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