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</div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Template talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">SABMiller</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang mw-portlet-lang-icon-only" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector-empty" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. 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<div class="vector-body-before-content"> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1237879475">.mw-parser-output .tmbox{margin:4px 0;border-collapse:collapse;border:1px solid #c0c090;background-color:#f8eaba;box-sizing:border-box}.mw-parser-output .tmbox.mbox-small{font-size:88%;line-height:1.25em}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-speedy{border:2px solid #b32424;background-color:#fee7e6}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-delete{border:2px solid #b32424}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-content{border:2px solid #f28500}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-style{border:2px solid #fc3}.mw-parser-output .tmbox-move{border:2px solid #9932cc}.mw-parser-output .tmbox .mbox-text{border:none;padding:0.25em 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role="presentation" class="tmbox tmbox-notice talkheader plainlinks" id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Template:SABMiller" title="Template:SABMiller">SABMiller</a> template.<br/></td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Template_talk:SABMiller" title="Special:NewSection/Template talk:SABMiller">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? 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.class-unassessed{background-color:#DCDCDC}.mw-parser-output .conflict{border:0.2em solid red}.mw-parser-output .inactive-wikiproject .wpb-header-bubbles{color:inherit}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span class="mw-image-border" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/35px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="18" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/53px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/70px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_Kingdom" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span class="mw-image-border" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/80px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/120px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/160px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1259569809">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{clear:left;float:left;margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="mw-image-border noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="flag" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/32px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/48px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/64px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:United_Kingdom" title="Portal:United Kingdom">United Kingdom portal</a></span></li></ul>This template is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_United_Kingdom" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject United Kingdom">WikiProject United Kingdom</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the <a href="/wiki/United_Kingdom" title="United Kingdom">United Kingdom</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_United_Kingdom" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject United Kingdom">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">United Kingdom</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject United Kingdom</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject United Kingdom</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">United Kingdom articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg/35px-WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg/53px-WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg/70px-WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="458" data-file-height="330"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Business" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Business">Business</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg/80px-WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="58" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg/120px-WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg/160px-WikiProject_Business_briefcase.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="458" data-file-height="330"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Emblem-money.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Emblem-money.svg/28px-Emblem-money.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Emblem-money.svg/42px-Emblem-money.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f3/Emblem-money.svg/56px-Emblem-money.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="48" data-file-height="48"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Business" title="Portal:Business">Business portal</a></span></li></ul>This template is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Business" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Business">WikiProject Business</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Business" title="Business">business</a> articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Business" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Business">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Business</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Business</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Business</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">WikiProject Business articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Factory_1b.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Factory_1b.svg/31px-Factory_1b.svg.png" decoding="async" width="31" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Factory_1b.svg/46px-Factory_1b.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Factory_1b.svg/61px-Factory_1b.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="329"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Companies" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Companies">Companies</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Factory_1b.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Factory_1b.svg/80px-Factory_1b.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="66" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Factory_1b.svg/120px-Factory_1b.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Factory_1b.svg/160px-Factory_1b.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="329"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Industry5.svg/28px-Industry5.svg.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Industry5.svg/42px-Industry5.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2a/Industry5.svg/56px-Industry5.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="512" data-file-height="512"/></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Companies" title="Portal:Companies">Companies portal</a></span></li></ul>This template is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Companies" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Companies">WikiProject Companies</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Company" title="Company">companies</a> on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Companies" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Companies">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Companies</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Companies</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Companies</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">company articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" style="padding:0"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed" style="background:transparent;width:100%"><tbody><tr><th style="text-align:left;padding:0.2em 2px 0.2em 0">WikiProject Companies To-do:</th></tr><tr><td style="text-align:left;padding:5px;background-color:white;border:1px solid #c0c090;margin-top:5px"> <table style="background:none;color:inherit;width:auto;"> <tbody><tr> <td style="vertical-align:top;"> <span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/50px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/75px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e6/Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg/100px-Nuvola_apps_korganizer.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="128" data-file-height="128"/></a></span><br/><div style="width: 55px; height: 0px;"></div> </td> <td> <div style="position: relative; left: 0px; margin-right: 0px; z-index: 15;">Here are some tasks awaiting attention: <ul style="font-size: 100%; margin: 0px; padding: 0.3em 0px 0.3em 25px;"> <li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles">Article requests</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Business_and_economics/Companies" title="Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies">Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Companies</a></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment">Assess</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Category:Unassessed_company_articles" title="Category:Unassessed company articles">Category:Unassessed company articles</a></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Basic_copyediting" title="Wikipedia:Basic copyediting">Copyedit</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Category:Company_articles_needing_attention" title="Category:Company articles needing attention">Category:Company articles needing attention</a></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Infoboxes" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Infoboxes">Infobox</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Category:Company_articles_needing_infoboxes" title="Category:Company articles needing infoboxes">Category:Company articles needing infoboxes</a></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Maintenance" title="Wikipedia:Maintenance">Maintain</a></i> :</b> <a href="/wiki/Portal:Companies" title="Portal:Companies">Portal:Companies</a></li><li><b><i><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Stub" title="Wikipedia:Stub">Stubs</a></i> :</b> Help expand stub articles located at <a href="/wiki/Category:Company_stubs" title="Category:Company stubs">Category:Company stubs</a></li><li><b><i>Other</i> :</b> <div> <ul><li>Tag company articles with the <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Portal" title="Template:Portal">portal</a>|Companies}}</code> template</li> <li>Tag company talk pages with the <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Companies" title="Template:WikiProject Companies">WikiProject Companies</a>}}</code> project banner</li> <li>Answer <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Economy,_trade,_and_companies" title="Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Economy, trade, and companies">requests for comments</a></li></ul> </div></li> </ul> </div> </td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071"><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pale_Ale.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Pale_Ale.jpg/15px-Pale_Ale.jpg" decoding="async" width="15" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Pale_Ale.jpg/23px-Pale_Ale.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Pale_Ale.jpg/30px-Pale_Ale.jpg 2x" data-file-width="151" data-file-height="249"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Beer" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Beer">Beer</a> </td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pale_Ale.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Pale_Ale.jpg/50px-Pale_Ale.jpg" decoding="async" width="50" height="82" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Pale_Ale.jpg/75px-Pale_Ale.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e5/Pale_Ale.jpg/100px-Pale_Ale.jpg 2x" data-file-width="151" data-file-height="249"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259569809"><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Projet_bi%C3%A8re_logo_v2.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Projet_bi%C3%A8re_logo_v2.png/28px-Projet_bi%C3%A8re_logo_v2.png" decoding="async" width="28" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Projet_bi%C3%A8re_logo_v2.png/42px-Projet_bi%C3%A8re_logo_v2.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c4/Projet_bi%C3%A8re_logo_v2.png/56px-Projet_bi%C3%A8re_logo_v2.png 2x" data-file-width="242" data-file-height="242"/></a></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Beer" title="Portal:Beer">Beer portal</a></span></li></ul>This template is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Beer" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Beer">WikiProject Beer</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Beer" title="Beer">Beer</a>, <a href="/wiki/Brewery" title="Brewery">Brewery</a>, and <a href="/wiki/Public_house" class="mw-redirect" title="Public house">Pub</a> related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Beer" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Beer">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Beer</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Beer</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Beer</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Beer articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475"><table id="bre" class="plainlinks tmbox tmbox-style" role="presentation"><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/50px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/75px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg/100px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="1200" data-file-height="600"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This template is <b>written in <a href="/wiki/British_English" title="British English">British English</a></b>, which has its own spelling conventions (<i>colour</i>, <i>travelled</i>, <i>centre</i>, <i>defence</i>, <i>artefact</i>, <i>analyse</i>) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other <a href="/wiki/List_of_dialects_of_English" title="List of dialects of English">varieties of English</a>. According to the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#National_varieties_of_English" title="Wikipedia:Manual of Style">relevant style guide</a>, this should not be changed without <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Consensus#Levels_of_consensus" title="Wikipedia:Consensus">broad consensus</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_template_is_confusing_and_not_accurate" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_template_is_confusing_and_not_accurate-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_template_is_confusing_and_not_accurate-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"></span>The template is confusing and not accurate<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_template_is_confusing_and_not_accurate-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:SABMiller&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: The template is confusing and not accurate"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z-The_template_is_confusing_and_not_accurate"></span>Is this template about breweries or about beer brands? Pick one or the other, but not both. It is WAY to busy. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z-The_template_is_confusing_and_not_accurate" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:41, 11 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z-The_template_is_confusing_and_not_accurate"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z-The_template_is_confusing_and_not_accurate"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"></span>In what way is the template inaccurate? <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z"></span>Dojlidy Brewery is part of Kompania Piwowarska. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:55, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:16:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"></span>The template doesn't say that it isn't. It could easily be added to the Kompania Piwowarska sub-section, the only reason that I didn't do this was that I was unclear exactly which brands are associated with it. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:16:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:16:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:16:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:22:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"></span>I have now moved Dojlidy Brewery to conform with the other breweries in the template. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:22:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:22, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:22:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:22:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z-1"></span>Regarding your second point I strongly disagree that the template should not include both subsidiaries/joint ventures and brands, both are absolutely integral to SABMiller and its business. It is not 'way too busy', it is as simple as it can be whilst conveying the necessary information. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z-1"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-1"></span>Because you're missing another level of subsidiaries in Poland, Romania and a few other countries. Please make it just about the breweries owned by SABMiller. Then make templates for each of the subsidiaries to list each of the brands. You are trying to boil the ocean with this extremely busy template. It tries to cover everything but only succeeds in proving confusion. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:55, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-1"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-11T23:46:00.000Z-1"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:12:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"></span>Regarding your point about subsidiaries, the template does not, of course, contain every single subsidiary company within the group but principal ones used for management purposes, most of which have their own WP articles (although important I have not included the Chinese joint venture and the Indian and Russian subsidiaries as they do not currently have their own WP articles). Kompania Piwowarska S.A. has been created by SAB as the overarching subsidiary in Poland, with management control of all other SAB Polish subsidiaries, and is included in the template. Ursus Breweries now fulfils the same role in Romania and is in the template.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>SABMiller is a single group and it is of great use to readers to have both its brands and principal subsidiaries/joint ventures together in a single template, particualrly as the group has devloped via acquisitions and the great majority of its brands are not global but regional. There are many far bigger and more complex templates in WP. I am also a strong believer in keeping things as simple as possible, but there is a big difference between simplicity and simply removing valuable information. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:12:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:12, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:12:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T01:12:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T00:02:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"></span>I should add that I have now made an adjustment which does make the template somewhat cleaner whilst not losing any info.<a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T00:02:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:02, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T00:02:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T00:02:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-11T23:41:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T00:02:00.000Z"></span>Your format alignment is off with the subsidiaries. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T00:02:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:55, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T00:02:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T00:55:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T00:02:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="A_lighter_version_of_the_template" data-mw-thread-id="h-A_lighter_version_of_the_template-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-A_lighter_version_of_the_template-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"></span>A lighter version of the template<span data-mw-comment-end="h-A_lighter_version_of_the_template-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:SABMiller&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: A lighter version of the template"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="navbox-styles"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z-A_lighter_version_of_the_template"></span><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1129693374">.mw-parser-output .hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul{margin:0;padding:0}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt,.mw-parser-output .hlist li{margin:0;display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist.inline ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist dl ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ol ul,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul dl,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ol,.mw-parser-output .hlist ul ul{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .hlist .mw-empty-li{display:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dt::after{content:": "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li::after{content:" · ";font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li:last-child::after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:first-child::before{content:" (";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dd li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt li:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dd:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li dt:last-child::after,.mw-parser-output .hlist li li:last-child::after{content:")";font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol{counter-reset:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li{counter-increment:listitem}.mw-parser-output .hlist ol>li::before{content:" "counter(listitem)"\a0 "}.mw-parser-output .hlist dd ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist dt ol>li:first-child::before,.mw-parser-output .hlist li ol>li:first-child::before{content:" ("counter(listitem)"\a0 "}</style><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1236075235">.mw-parser-output .navbox{box-sizing:border-box;border:1px solid #a2a9b1;width:100%;clear:both;font-size:88%;text-align:center;padding:1px;margin:1em auto 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbox{margin-top:0}.mw-parser-output .navbox+.navbox,.mw-parser-output .navbox+.navbox-styles+.navbox{margin-top:-1px}.mw-parser-output .navbox-inner,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup{width:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-title,.mw-parser-output .navbox-abovebelow{padding:0.25em 1em;line-height:1.5em;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .navbox-group{white-space:nowrap;text-align:right}.mw-parser-output .navbox,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup{background-color:#fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-list{line-height:1.5em;border-color:#fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-list-with-group{text-align:left;border-left-width:2px;border-left-style:solid}.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-group,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-image,.mw-parser-output tr+tr>.navbox-list{border-top:2px solid #fdfdfd}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title{background-color:#ccf}.mw-parser-output .navbox-abovebelow,.mw-parser-output .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-title{background-color:#ddf}.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-group,.mw-parser-output .navbox-subgroup .navbox-abovebelow{background-color:#e6e6ff}.mw-parser-output .navbox-even{background-color:#f7f7f7}.mw-parser-output .navbox-odd{background-color:transparent}.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox .hlist td ul,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist dl,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ol,.mw-parser-output .navbox td.hlist ul{padding:0.125em 0}.mw-parser-output .navbox .navbar{display:block;font-size:100%}.mw-parser-output .navbox-title .navbar{float:left;text-align:left;margin-right:0.5em}body.skin--responsive .mw-parser-output .navbox-image img{max-width:none!important}@media print{body.ns-0 .mw-parser-output .navbox{display:none!important}}</style></div><div role="navigation" class="navbox" aria-labelledby="SABMiller_breweries_worldwide" style="padding:3px"><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible {{{state}}} navbox-inner" style="border-spacing:0;background:transparent;color:inherit"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1239400231">.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:inline;font-size:88%;font-weight:normal}.mw-parser-output .navbar-collapse{float:left;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .navbar-boxtext{word-spacing:0}.mw-parser-output .navbar ul{display:inline-block;white-space:nowrap;line-height:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::before{margin-right:-0.125em;content:"[ "}.mw-parser-output .navbar-brackets::after{margin-left:-0.125em;content:" ]"}.mw-parser-output .navbar li{word-spacing:-0.125em}.mw-parser-output .navbar a>span,.mw-parser-output .navbar a>abbr{text-decoration:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-mini abbr{font-variant:small-caps;border-bottom:none;text-decoration:none;cursor:inherit}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-full{font-size:114%;margin:0 7em}.mw-parser-output .navbar-ct-mini{font-size:114%;margin:0 4em}html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}@media(prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .navbar li a abbr{color:var(--color-base)!important}}@media print{.mw-parser-output .navbar{display:none!important}}</style><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:SABMiller_Breweries" title="Template:SABMiller Breweries"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a href="/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller_Breweries" title="Template talk:SABMiller Breweries"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:SABMiller_Breweries" title="Special:EditPage/Template:SABMiller Breweries"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="SABMiller_breweries_worldwide" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/SABMiller" title="SABMiller">SABMiller</a> <a href="/wiki/Brewery" title="Brewery">breweries</a> worldwide</div></th></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;text-align: left;"><a href="/wiki/Africa" title="Africa">Africa</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/South_African_Breweries" title="South African Breweries">South African Breweries</a></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;text-align: left;"><a href="/wiki/Europe" title="Europe">Europe</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Grolsch_Brewery" title="Grolsch Brewery">Grolsch Brewery</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Kompania_Piwowarska" title="Kompania Piwowarska">Kompania Piwowarska</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Peroni_Brewery" title="Peroni Brewery">Peroni Brewery</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Pilsner_Urquell_Brewery" title="Pilsner Urquell Brewery">Plzeňský Prazdroj</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Ursus_Breweries" title="Ursus Breweries">Ursus Breweries</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/SABMiller_brands#Dreher_brewery" title="SABMiller brands">Dreher Brewery</a> <b>·</b> </div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;text-align: left;"><a href="/wiki/North_America" title="North America">North America</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/MillerCoors" title="MillerCoors">MillerCoors</a><sup>2</sup> (<a href="/wiki/Miller_Brewing_Company" title="Miller Brewing Company">Miller Brewing Company</a> (<a href="/wiki/Jacob_Leinenkugel_Brewing_Company" class="mw-redirect" title="Jacob Leinenkugel Brewing Company">Jacob Leinenkugel Brewing Company</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Henry_Weinhard%27s" title="Henry Weinhard's">Henry Weinhard's</a>) <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Pabst_Brewing_Company" title="Pabst Brewing Company">Pabst Brewing Company</a><sup>3</sup>)</div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;text-align: left;"><a href="/wiki/Oceania" title="Oceania">Oceania</a>/<a href="/wiki/Asia" title="Asia">Asia</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-even" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Bluetongue_Brewery" title="Bluetongue Brewery">Bluetongue Brewery</a><sup>1</sup></div></td></tr><tr><th scope="row" class="navbox-group" style="width:1%;text-align: left;"><a href="/wiki/South_America" title="South America">South America</a></th><td class="navbox-list-with-group navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Backus_and_Johnston" class="mw-redirect" title="Backus and Johnston">Backus and Johnston</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Bavaria_Brewery_(Colombia)" title="Bavaria Brewery (Colombia)">Bavaria Brewery</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/SABMiller_brands#Cerveceria_Hondureña_(Hondurean_Brewery)" title="SABMiller brands">Cerveceria Hondureña</a></div></td></tr><tr><td class="navbox-abovebelow" colspan="2" style="text-align: left;"><div><small><sup>1</sup><i><a href="/wiki/Joint_venture" title="Joint venture">Joint venture</a> between SABMiller and <a href="/wiki/Coca-Cola_Amatil" title="Coca-Cola Amatil">Coca-Cola Amatil</a></i><br/><sup>2</sup><i><a href="/wiki/Joint_venture" title="Joint venture">Joint venture</a> between SABMiller (58%) and <a href="/wiki/Molson_Coors_Brewing_Company" class="mw-redirect" title="Molson Coors Brewing Company">Molson Coors Brewing Company</a> (42%)</i><br/><sup>3</sup><i>The company is contract brewer for brands of beer and lager that are owned by <a href="/wiki/Pabst_Brewing_Company" title="Pabst Brewing Company">Pabst Brewing Company</a></i></small></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div> <p><br/> It's not absolutely complete (especially with the smaller African breweries), but it is a little less complex than the monster template. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z-A_lighter_version_of_the_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:52, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z-A_lighter_version_of_the_template"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z-A_lighter_version_of_the_template"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:37:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"></span>Strongly oppose. This would remove a large amount of very important and highly relevant content for no good reason. SABMiller's business is its brands and an SABMiller template without them is quite ludicrous. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:37:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:37, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:37:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:37:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:54:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"></span>A template should be the appropriate length to include the relevant articles on a topic in a logical fashion, and also serve as a visual introduction to a topic. I have created templates for other companies and organisations which are far smaller than the SABMiller one, but content should not primarily be determined by arbitrary considerations of size but by what the template needs to include. The <a href="/wiki/Template:United_States_Congress" title="Template:United States Congress">Template:United States Congress</a> is far larger, as are many others, but the focus should not be on size per se - unless this becomes completely unwieldy, which the SABMiller one is in no way - but on the inclusion of appropriate and relevant content in the most logical fashion. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:54:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:54, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:54:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:54:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T17:01:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:54:00.000Z"></span>It is because of the complexity that simplicity is a requirement. Each of the subsidiaries would then have their own template that links back to the main SABMiller template.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Psychologically people are hard pressed to understand more than 7 items on a chart at once without going into information overflow.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Simpler is better so that a complex subject can be presented in an understandable manner. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T17:01:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:54:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:01, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T17:01:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:54:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T17:01:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T15:54:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:59:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T17:01:00.000Z"></span>I strongly disagree that most readers are so limited in intellectual capacity, and see nothing particularly overwhelming about the current template. SABMiller is a complicated business because it has been created through the merger and acquisition of a large number of companies which each had their own family of brands. I have done templates for other far larger companies in terms of revenues but have not felt their businesses to be anywhere near as complex. However the answer to that complexity is not to simply ignore it on the basis that readers are incapable of understanding it, but to present it to them in the clearest, most logical and yes simplest manner possible. There is no unnecessary complexity in this template but it serves as what I feel to be a very helpful visual introduction to SABMiller, as well as organising the large number of SABMiller related WP articles, which are currently highly fragmented. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:59:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T17:01:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:59, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:59:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T17:01:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:59:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T17:01:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dormskirk-2011-04-12T19:57:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"></span>I agree that including subsidiaries is not useful as many large listed companies have hundreds of subsidiaries but I do not see that listing all the brands does any harm - in fact it is positively helpful. <a href="/wiki/User:Dormskirk" title="User:Dormskirk">Dormskirk</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dormskirk" title="User talk:Dormskirk">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Dormskirk-2011-04-12T19:57:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:57, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dormskirk-2011-04-12T19:57:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dormskirk-2011-04-12T19:57:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T14:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z-Dormskirk-2011-04-12T19:57:00.000Z"></span>A couple hundred brands? The template will be larger than most of the pages that the template is on. better to break it into a series of templates that have information on each to the subsidiaries. Then it is a manageable and understandable amount of information. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z-Dormskirk-2011-04-12T19:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:33, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z-Dormskirk-2011-04-12T19:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z-Dormskirk-2011-04-12T19:57:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:48:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z"></span>That is counter-factual as the majority of SABMiller brands are actually already in the template (just over 130 - to include <i>every single variant</i> of every single SAB brand would only take the number to 200): <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.sabmiller.com/index.asp?pageid=315">[1]</a>. All brands with WP articles are included, as are all which SABMiller designates as 'Flagship' or 'Global', and which constitute the overwhelming proportion of its sales.</dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd>Splitting the brands into templates for each subsidiary means firstly that readers are denied the very useful feature of having them in one place. Secondly, many in fact almost certainly most readers will not approach the topic in that manner, but will be interested in the brands of SAB Miller rather than the brands of CR Snow, Ursus Breweries or Cerveceria Hondureña. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:48:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:48, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:48:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:48:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:52:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z"></span>I should add that I have nothing against the creation of separate templates for SAB subsidiaries, which can include some additional information. What I am wholly against is the mass removal of information from this template, which is of potentially great use to readers, simply out of an arbitrary sense that templates should be of a certain size. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:52:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:52, 12 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:52:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-12T23:52:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-12T23:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:25:00.000Z-A_lighter_version_of_the_template"></span>So which <b>half</b> is <i>worthy</i> of inclusion? It does a reader a significant disservice to have half-a-loaf of information. The template misses a great number of Eastern European brands (Hungarian, Polish, Slovak, Czech), ALL the Russian brands (what about SABMiller RUS?), all the Ukrainian brands. I haven't even gotten to the African brands yet. I'm saying that it is better to have something real simple as a "root" template and then have it break out into a series of branch templates. </p> <div class="navbox-styles"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1236075235"></div><div role="navigation" class="navbox" aria-labelledby="SABMiller" style="padding:3px"><table class="nowraplinks mw-collapsible {{{state}}} navbox-inner" style="border-spacing:0;background:transparent;color:inherit"><tbody><tr><th scope="col" class="navbox-title" colspan="2"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1129693374"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1239400231"><div class="navbar plainlinks hlist navbar-mini"><ul><li class="nv-view"><a href="/wiki/Template:SABMiller" title="Template:SABMiller"><abbr title="View this template">v</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-talk"><a class="mw-selflink selflink"><abbr title="Discuss this template">t</abbr></a></li><li class="nv-edit"><a href="/wiki/Special:EditPage/Template:SABMiller" title="Special:EditPage/Template:SABMiller"><abbr title="Edit this template">e</abbr></a></li></ul></div><div id="SABMiller" style="font-size:114%;margin:0 4em"><a href="/wiki/SABMiller" title="SABMiller">SABMiller</a></div></th></tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="navbox-list navbox-odd" style="width:100%;padding:0"><div style="padding:0 0.25em"><a href="/wiki/Breweries" class="mw-redirect" title="Breweries">Breweries</a> (<a href="/wiki/SABMiller_brands" title="SABMiller brands">Brands</a>) <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Bottlers" class="mw-redirect mw-disambig" title="Bottlers">Bottlers</a> (<a href="/wiki/SABMiller_brands#Non-beer_brands" title="SABMiller brands">Non-Beer Brands</a>) <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/SAB_World_of_Beer" title="SAB World of Beer">SAB World of Beer</a> <b>·</b> <a href="/wiki/Joint_Ventures" class="mw-redirect" title="Joint Ventures">Joint Ventures</a></div></td></tr></tbody></table></div> <p>The new root template should have only a few categories. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:25:00.000Z-A_lighter_version_of_the_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:25, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:25:00.000Z-A_lighter_version_of_the_template"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:25:00.000Z-A_lighter_version_of_the_template"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:25:00.000Z"></span>Once again your comment is counter-factual. The Russian beers Zolotaya Bochka Klassicheskoye, Zolotaya Bochka Svetloye and Zolotaya Bochka Vyderzhannoye are all included, as are over 20 other eastern European beers. However the template as created was not a finished or perfect product. Literally as soon as it was created you were on this Talk page pushing for its contents to be bulk deleted. I was well aware that a number of African beers still needed to be added. Rather than doing that however, or discussing it, my time has instead been wasted on this discussion.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>Let me say again in case I have been ambiguous: I am very happy for there to be articles and templates for all of the SAB subsidiaries and joint-ventures, and strongly support the project of developing and expanding them. And I do accept that there may be the opportunity to include detail in subsidiary/joint-venture templates which is not in this template. However I strongly oppose the bulk deletion of SAB brands from this template, and the fragmentation of its contents into separate templates which will remove valuable information from readers. Look at the templates for some major FMCG companies, such as <a href="/wiki/Template:Nestl%C3%A9" title="Template:Nestlé">Template:Nestlé</a>, <a href="/wiki/Template:Kraft" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Kraft">Template:Kraft</a> and <a href="/wiki/Template:Kellogg%27s" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Kellogg's">Template:Kellogg's</a> and you will see that brands figure very prominently. Brands are ultimately the business of SABMiller, not subsidiaries, although the subsidiaries are important and in many cases interesting because of their histories as independent companies prior to their acquisition by SAB.<a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:25:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:43, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:25:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:25:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T01:26:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z"></span>Update: the template now includes all of the SAB African brands, and a total of 168 brands out of SAB entire portfolio of 200 (many of which are simply varieties rather than actual brands per se). <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T01:26:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:26, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T01:26:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T01:26:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T12:11:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z"></span>You're still missing the Ukrainian beers, the Slovakian beers, SABMiller RUS, and the contract bottler relationship with Pabst. Oh, and keep the whole template up to date while you're at it. It sure sounds like you're taking <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Ownership">Ownership</a> of the template. <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T12:11:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:11, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T12:11:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T12:11:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:43:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Discott-2011-04-13T20:11:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T12:11:00.000Z"></span>I find my self agreeing with the assertion that a template that seeks to present SABMiller in the simplest and most direct form possible should focus on the Brands that the company owns and not so much -if at all- on the breweries. I do however feel that it would be very nice to have both in the same template (so long as it is in a very well organized fashion) but I can see how that could get complicated quickly and possibly be quite contentious. My reasons for the Brands taking presidence over the breweries are as follows. One, as has been previously mentioned brands are 'the business of' SABMiller and it is (to the best of my knowledge) basically how the company defines its self. Two, when I -as a lay person who admittedly knows very little about beer other than as a South African I have very little choice then an SABMiller beer to drink when I want beer- think of a massive beer company I am not interested in all the joint ventures and breweries that make up that company but its brands. I (again as an ordinary consumer) want to know how it impacts my life through the brands that I am familiar with and encounter.--<a href="/wiki/User:Discott" title="User:Discott">Discott</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Discott" title="User talk:Discott">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Discott-2011-04-13T20:11:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T12:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:11, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Discott-2011-04-13T20:11:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T12:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Discott-2011-04-13T20:11:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T12:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z-Discott-2011-04-13T20:11:00.000Z"></span>Update: the template now includes all of the brands as listed on the SABMiller website. Pabst is not relevant to the template as it is not a part of SABMiller, SABMiller acts as a supplier to Pabst. I should make one important point of distinction. This template includes the brands of SABMiller, and where appropriate key subsidiaries and joint ventures. However it does not include 'breweries' in the sense of specific buildings or sites where products are produced. This misunderstanding may have come from a few incorrectly labelled sub-headings in the template, which have now been fixed. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z-Discott-2011-04-13T20:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z-Discott-2011-04-13T20:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z-Discott-2011-04-13T20:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z"></span>How about brands by type of beer? <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:11, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:20:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z"></span>That is an interesting idea. Why can't that be information be included in the individual subsidiary articles (as created)? I propose that details of breweries i.e. speciific locations and site for production (both current and historic) also be included in those templates but not this one. This provides an additional mission split between the sets of templates. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:20:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:20, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:20:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T21:20:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T21:11:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Improperly_created_duplicate_template" data-mw-thread-id="h-Improperly_created_duplicate_template-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Improperly_created_duplicate_template-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z"></span>Improperly created duplicate template<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Improperly_created_duplicate_template-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:SABMiller&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Improperly created duplicate template"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z-Improperly_created_duplicate_template"></span>I should add here that, despite this discussion being ongoing, user Ajh1492 has gone ahead and created the duplicative template <a href="/wiki/Template:SABMiller_Breweries" title="Template:SABMiller Breweries">Template:SABMiller Breweries</a> (and added it in place of this template to the articles relating to the Polish SAB subsidiary (<a href="/wiki/Kompania_Piwowarska" title="Kompania Piwowarska">Kompania Piwowarska</a>, <a href="/wiki/%C5%BBubr_(beer)" title="Żubr (beer)">Żubr (beer)</a>, <a href="/wiki/Tyskie" title="Tyskie">Tyskie</a> and <a href="/wiki/Dojlidy_Brewery" title="Dojlidy Brewery">Dojlidy Brewery</a>). My attempts to add a speedy deletion tag to that article have, inevitably, simply been reverted. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z-Improperly_created_duplicate_template" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:10, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z-Improperly_created_duplicate_template"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z-Improperly_created_duplicate_template"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:28:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z"></span>The template covers just the breweries, and there is a template for Kompania Piwowarska that covers just the breweries and brands associated with KP. I thought you didn't object to subsidiary templates? Plus who are you to decide if a template is correct or not? <a href="/wiki/User:Ajh1492" title="User:Ajh1492">Ajh1492</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Ajh1492" title="User talk:Ajh1492">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:28:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:28, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:28:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:28:00.000Z-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:51:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:28:00.000Z"></span>That template is a clear cut out from this one minus the brands (and plus <a href="/wiki/Pabst_Brewing_Company" title="Pabst Brewing Company">Pabst Brewing Company</a>, which isn't even part of SAB). In my view it serves no purpose alongside this template and subsidiary/joint venture templates (as and when created).</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Yes I completely support templates for the subsidiaries and joint ventures (including the new <a href="/wiki/Template:Kompania_Piwowarska" title="Template:Kompania Piwowarska">Template:Kompania Piwowarska</a> which you have created), and accept that there may be the opportunity to include some detail there which cannot be included here. However this template and the subsidiary/joint venture templates is sufficient, a template purely listing the subsidiary/joint ventures is unnecessary alongside this one, and your creating it whilst this discussion is ongoing and then adding it to multiple articles in place of this template looks like a fairly naked attempt to pre-empt this discussion or render it impotent. <a href="/wiki/User:Rangoon11" title="User:Rangoon11">Rangoon11</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rangoon11" title="User talk:Rangoon11">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:SABMiller#c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:51:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">00:51, 13 April 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:51:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rangoon11-2011-04-13T00:51:00.000Z-Ajh1492-2011-04-13T00:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:SABMiller&oldid=1080848451">https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:SABMiller&oldid=1080848451</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks" data-mw="interface"><div id="mw-normal-catlinks" class="mw-normal-catlinks"><a href="/wiki/Help:Category" title="Help:Category">Categories</a>: <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_United_Kingdom_articles" title="Category:Template-Class United Kingdom articles">Template-Class United Kingdom articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_United_Kingdom_articles" title="Category:NA-importance United Kingdom articles">NA-importance United Kingdom articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_United_Kingdom_articles" title="Category:WikiProject United Kingdom articles">WikiProject United Kingdom articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_WikiProject_Business_articles" title="Category:Template-Class WikiProject Business articles">Template-Class WikiProject Business articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_WikiProject_Business_articles" title="Category:NA-importance WikiProject Business articles">NA-importance WikiProject Business articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Business_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Business articles">WikiProject Business articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_company_articles" title="Category:Template-Class company articles">Template-Class company articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_company_articles" title="Category:NA-importance company articles">NA-importance company articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Companies_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Companies articles">WikiProject Companies articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Template-Class_Beer_articles" title="Category:Template-Class Beer articles">Template-Class Beer articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:NA-importance_Beer_articles" title="Category:NA-importance Beer articles">NA-importance Beer articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:WikiProject_Beer_articles" title="Category:WikiProject Beer articles">WikiProject Beer articles</a></li><li><a href="/wiki/Category:Wikipedia_articles_that_use_British_English" title="Category:Wikipedia articles that use British English">Wikipedia articles that use British English</a></li></ul></div></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 3 April 2022, at 20:38<span class="anonymous-show"> (UTC)</span>.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Text_of_the_Creative_Commons_Attribution-ShareAlike_4.0_International_License" title="Wikipedia:Text of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International License">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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