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performance drive brand? And how can lower funnel tactics enhance the brand experience? </strong></p> <p><span>In the final episode of the season, host Michelle Lomas speaks to Verity Rowe, the Marketing Manager at Lululemon. They discuss how Lululemon has managed to build and grow their sales, without promotion or couponing - no easy feat in today’s climate. And how the brand continues to leverage affiliate marketing successfully, despite their strategy.  </span></p> <p><span>Listen in as Verity also shares the way in which they are tracking the holistic effect of affiliate marketing across their entire marketing plan, and the surprising results.  </span></p> </div> </div></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="span6 widget-span widget-type-cell dnd-column" style="" data-widget-type="cell" data-x="6" data-w="6"> <div class="row-fluid-wrapper row-depth-1 row-number-3 dnd-row"> <div class="row-fluid "> <div class="span12 widget-span widget-type-custom_widget dnd-module" style="" data-widget-type="custom_widget" data-x="0" data-w="12"> <div id="hs_cos_wrapper_dnd_area-dnd_partial-1-module-4" class="hs_cos_wrapper hs_cos_wrapper_widget hs_cos_wrapper_type_module" style="" data-hs-cos-general-type="widget" data-hs-cos-type="module"><h2 class="heading"> Watch the Episode </h2> <div> <div class="trailer"> <div class="oembed_container oembed_container--full-size" id="oembed_container-dnd_area-dnd_partial-1-module-4"> <div class="iframe_wrapper" data-embed-url="https://youtu.be/BeHu3s8Yu2M"> </div> </div> </div> </div></div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row-fluid-wrapper row-depth-1 row-number-4 dnd-row"> <div class="row-fluid "> <div class="span12 widget-span widget-type-custom_widget dnd-module" style="" data-widget-type="custom_widget" data-x="0" data-w="12"> <div id="hs_cos_wrapper_dnd_area-dnd_partial-1-module-5" class="hs_cos_wrapper hs_cos_wrapper_widget hs_cos_wrapper_type_module" style="" data-hs-cos-general-type="widget" data-hs-cos-type="module"> <h2 class="heading"> Listen Now On </h2> <div class="social-links"> <a class="img-icon" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/flex-your-hustle/id1628927417" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> <img class="" src="https://discover.commissionfactory.com/hubfs/raw_assets/public/template%20blog%20post/images/template-image/podcast.png" alt="../images/template-image/podcast.png"> </a> <a class="img-icon" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/78Jca2uUz0CP2icnAHgfQy" target="_blank" rel="noopener"> <img class="" src="https://discover.commissionfactory.com/hubfs/raw_assets/public/template%20blog%20post/images/template-image/spotify.png" alt="../images/template-image/spotify.png"> </a> </div> <div>  </div></div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="row-fluid-wrapper row-depth-1 row-number-5 dnd_area-row-1-background-color dnd-section dnd_area-row-1-background-layers"> <div class="row-fluid "> <div class="span12 widget-span widget-type-custom_widget dnd-module" style="" data-widget-type="custom_widget" data-x="0" data-w="12"> <div id="hs_cos_wrapper_dnd_area-dnd_partial-2-module-1" class="hs_cos_wrapper hs_cos_wrapper_widget hs_cos_wrapper_type_module" style="" data-hs-cos-general-type="widget" data-hs-cos-type="module"><div class="episode"> <h2 class="text-center heading season-margin">Episode Transcription</h2> <div> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Hey there, hustlers. Welcome back to another episode of Flex Your Hustle, and sadly, this will be the last for the year. It's been an absolute pleasure to host the season again for another round of great ideas. Thank you so much for listening for the great feedback and conversation.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> We've had so many inspiring stories and wonderful guests on the show. So a huge thank you to all of our guests who've joined us this season. We are capping off the season with a fun and interesting chat with Verity Rowe. Verity is the marketing manager for Australia at lululemon, a brand that should need no introduction.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Known for a dawning SUV driving Mums and ladies who love to lazily brunch, lululemon has built a cult-like following for its premium quality athleisure wear that can bridge both workout and play. In this conversation, we discuss how lululemon has managed to build and grow their sales, without promotion or couponing.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> No easy feat in today's climate and how the brand continues to leverage affiliate marketing successfully despite this strategy. Verity, thank you so much for joining us today. So excited for the listeners out there. Why don't you do a little introduction to yourself and what you do at lululemon.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Sure.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Well, thanks for having me. This is my first time on a podcast. Yes. So very nervous and excited. My name's Verity. I am the Digital Marketing Manager at lululemon in Australia. We cover Australia and New Zealand. I have been at lululemon for three and a half years. I look after all of the performance marketing channels which obviously span across the digital remit.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> I work really closely with our brand team and our e-commerce team. I guess I've come from a pretty varied background. I started in a fairly similar but different role in the kind of activewear industry. I started my career with Adidas a long time ago now. But in the sports marketing field. Mm-hmm. So quite different to where I sit now.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> I found myself at a digital agency, which is where I really started to hone my skills in the digital and performance marketing space. But while I was at that agency, I did my postgrad in digital marketing just to really round my skills out in the space. And through that process, I found this role at lululemon and found myself applying, thinking there's no way I'm gonna get this role. They're way too big. They're way too cool. But yeah, I've managed to learn the role myself, and here I am.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Congratulations. It's no easy feat getting into a really incredible brand like lululemon. But obviously they've seen something in you, which we're gonna talk about today because you really have.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Made quite a transformation to the business and their marketing in the fairly short time that you've been there, right? You haven't been there that long?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> No, not really that long. Although it does feel like an age.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> And so why don't we talk about it. When you started at lululemon, obviously you've got quite a breadth of experience, so what was it like when you got in there, and especially with your background, what were the first things that you were thinking about?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> When I first started at lululemon, I was the first internal hire in the Australia business for the digital marketing team. Previously, the digital marketing strategy and implementation had all been handled by agency or freelancers. I was really starting with a new role and built the strategy from the ground up.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> So I was feeling, overwhelmed and probably like I had a bit of imposter syndrome at the time.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Oh, totally. I was thinking the same thing. I'm like, I would be so excited and pumped for it, but also terrified.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> That was probably the two biggest feelings I had when I first started. I was interviewing through the early months of 2020, so January and February.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> I didn't start until April, so the world had changed a lot in the time I got the offer and then actually started, so, starting from home online, trying to make relationships with people across the business online was such an experience. And then, yeah, developing the strategy for all of our performance marketing channels from the ground up, it was no easy feat.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> But I think I was able to lean on quite a lot of resources. We obviously have teamed across the globe in other regions that I was able to connect with and learn from. Covid was really an uncertain space, but, being an active wear business. We definitely didn't struggle through the pandemic period.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I think. I don't think I wore anything else. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I was like, that was it. Wake up. Yeah, take your pajamas off, put your active wear on. That was my uniform.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> You were not alone. We all did the same thing, especially working from home. You had to be business at the top. Comfort at the bottom.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Yeah. Definitely wasn't a bad time to be selling stretchy leggings.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> You're such a big global organisation. Maybe people don't underestimate just how widespread lululemon is across the globe. What were the things that were kind of happening at the time that you could lean on, and then what were some of the things that you had to I guess put simply Australian-ify</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Yes, we're a Canadian company and we're massive in North America across women's and men's wear, which a lot of people are actually surprised to find out. We do men's wear being a brand that was kind of grounded in women's yoga originally, the awareness of our men's wear range is somewhat small in comparison to our women's wear range, which we're working really hard to change, but I think there's still a bit of work to go there in terms of leaning on our teams in North America, in Europe, and in Asia was really helpful for me when I first started in kind of understanding what strategies do and don't work for our market.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> But then Australia-ifying it, was definitely important because we're obviously at different stages of kind of market maturity. Australia was the first international region outside of North America that the brand came to, so our maturity is actually quite high, particularly in women's wear, but I think. In terms of like the business structure and strategy things that work for say the US where there's like really big population don't necessarily translate into what we do here in Australia with such a small population, people really into wearing activewear.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> I come from Melbourne where I. It's basically the cafe outfit of the day.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Yes. I live in Bondi, which is classic lululemon territory. Right. You've got the mums that basically go for a walk on the beach and then go meet their girlfriends and then go drop their kids off and they basically live in lululemons.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> And so for that, kind of demographic. I guess it's kind of like how do you fit that into a style? How do you demonstrate that can take you from day to night and how you could dress it up in little pieces, whereas maybe some other markets, they are more exercise conscious and it is a way because it tucks them in and keeps 'em tight.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Or they doing they yoga. Right?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Exactly. You summed it up perfectly.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I've done a lot of customer journey mapping in my time. And I'm also kind of probably your target market. So I mean, I think it's really interesting 'cause you stepped into this role and it was a performance marketing role, right? You really had to really ramp up what you were doing in performance marketing.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> 'cause I would probably argue that lululemon doesn't have a brand awareness issue, right? It's a bit of a cult product, particularly for the Eastern suburbs, mums like myself, hate to say it, but what I would say is, yeah, it is really interesting because performance marketing for a lot of marketers is price promotion driven.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> And that's actually from your strategy perspective, something you do not do, right?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Yeah. So we consider ourselves sort of like a premium offering. You know, we believe in our products, we've put a lot of work into the development of our products. So for us, selling our product is more about communicating its benefits rather than kind of leaning into driving price conscious sales.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> So I think when, as you say, brand awareness is not a huge issue, but I think we are not like, we're not a breakout brand. You know, we're established and we're known in the market. So shying away from kind of. Promotional style messaging and into kind of the why.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I think Lululemon is one of those brands that it has a cult status in its own right.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> And I mean, in my eyes, and I'm one of the target market, it sits up there with the Nikes of the world, right? It's got a very recognisable icon that sits on your clothing and extremely comfortable and wonderful to live in all day. And so I would probably argue that by building that brand first and building that, I guess iconic status, that's a big call actually. Me saying that lululemon is a bit iconic, but I do feel it is a bit iconic, certainly with some demographics.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Yeah, I think you are definitely right, if you're kind of like a new business, new starter and your brand name's not well known, that can be a real challenge.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> It could be an easy win to kind of lean into price promotion. You know, once upon a time, lululemon was a small brand and we still managed to get to this point. So you know, we're not that old. We're not as old as Nike, for example. I think if you believe in your product promise as a brand and the quality of your product, and that's the kind of messaging you want to use for your marketing, I would say stick to your guns if that's something that you really believe in, because standing behind your brand beliefs is always going to be a more beneficial strategy in the long term.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I mean, it's great advice for anyone out there looking to create a new athleisure wear brand or any brand really. I think what Lululemon has done very well is found a way to infiltrate culture. And so if that's something that you wanna stand by, you just have to be much more clever about how you become that product that is part of culture.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I think you guys have done that really well, you picked a great demographic and went for it. So with that in mind, not budging on the price promotion, very disappointed. What does performance look like for you then?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Yeah, so we obviously work across real spectrum of channels. We're pretty much in every digital marketing channel that we could be in.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> So, performance really, like if we zoom out, is filling the top of the funnel with prospective guests. People who maybe have never tried our brand before but have heard of it, maybe they've never heard of us. Maybe they're brand loyal somewhere else. I mean, it sounds so cliche and standard, but I think it really works when you focus on each phase and curating messaging.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> It's continuing to create a really premium experience after the conversion. That drives someone to become a brand loyal guest in your database. So I would say performance looks like a really healthy acquisition strategy and then also a really healthy retention strategy. And the two work together to continually grow your business.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I've used that analogy a lot in the past of a leaky bucket. Yes. So if you are not focusing just as much on your retention and your lifetime value of your customer, you're just gonna continue to leak those customers. There's something really interesting that you mentioned when we caught up earlier about that customer journey and how your personalizing the website experience.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Think there's only a few brands that I generally see that are really going to the level that you guys are, so can you share a little bit about that?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Yeah, I mean, I think personalisation is one of those topics. It's a hot topic in the digital marketing world, and I think it's one of those ones that goes hand in hand with privacy and understanding how your data's being used.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> For us, we have a little fun quiz on our site, which will kind of ingest the information and spit out a recommendation which is algorithmic led based on your answers. So if you get to our leggings page and you're a bit confused 'cause there's so many 17 different black leggings on the site and you dunno the difference between them.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Yes.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> I mean, you wouldn't be alone. So I think that is a really simple way. So simple. To ensure, especially for e-commerce. Where you don't have that ability to kind of talk with the retail team about what you are looking for. I mean, for us it was like one way that we could bring that kind of store style experience to our e-commerce website.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> What I love as well is it recognises that each of your customer is different. And so they're going to be using it in a different way. Some will really just wanna use it to look stylish when they go have, you know, brunch with their girlfriends. Whereas others are, you know, active. They're out there and they're, you know, at the gym every day and they want a really good quality legging that's gonna last the distance.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> And so I think that's what I really like about that as well, that it's recognising not every customer's the same. You're not homogenous. You don't all just look for a black tie. Are you buying for an occasion? What's the weather gonna be like? There are. You hiking or walking, really tailored questions to get to the heart of what's gonna be the best product.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> And as a consumer, that helps you make a decision more confidently. Exactly. And not to mention, you get all that incredibly rich information about who that customer is, what they like, how they use the product. You don't just have information on what they've bought. You've got what they're thinking and their intentions.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Yeah. And that can customise, everything from your CRM to more, so you know, that data's really valuable. I'm gonna switch gears though, because I really wanna talk about affiliate marketing with you. Yeah. Because you didn't really do affiliate marketing before stepping into this role, did you?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> No, I didn't. I was brand new to affiliate marketing when I joined lululemons. When I first started, my manager said, oh, like you've got all this great experience on performance marketing channels. By the way, you're also gonna be managing our affiliate program. I thought, nothing like a challenge. I've always been one to learn.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> So first thing I did was jump onto Apple Podcasts and start listening to every podcast I could find about affiliate marketing. So I kind of feel like I'm paying it forward now by being here and talking to you about affiliate marketing.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I love that we are all eternally learning, and so it's totally okay to step into a role where you have to do something you've never done before.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> But I love that you just kind of leaned in and went, okay, I'm gonna figure this out. So what does the program look like?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Without giving too much away, we're across the full spectrum of publisher styles. So I would say when I first started, it was really easy to lean into kind of cash back because of the performance that you get out of it.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> I mean, you see the dollars rolling in and you're like, wow, this is great. The ROAS on this is so high, and when you look at the return on ad spend from the affiliate channel, you're like, wow, I could never achieve this in other channels. So it's really easy to lean into that kind of loyalty, promotional, cashback side of affiliate marketing.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> And I think a lot of people who don't know much about affiliate marketing, that's all they see from this space, and it's really easy for, I guess, anyone who's not really close to the strategy of affiliate marketing, to just assume that the only thing you can do in the space is offer cash back, which I think I would absolutely challenge.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> You know, we've seen a lot of success out of winning further into content partnerships. You know, we work with a really robust number of content publishers on our program, and it's become a really important part of the strategy in terms of driving not only the conversions that come out of the affiliate channel, but also the brand awareness and the consideration components.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> So, you do see a kind of full funnel strategy forming in the affiliate side, which I think a lot of people miss when they look at the channel.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Yeah, and there's that brand alignment too, right? Because there are a lot of premium properties. I mean, you can get access to our media properties, you can get access to Qantas rewards, like there are a lot of premium spaces where you can still promote your product with an affiliate approach.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Which affiliate is really, it's just the way that it's monetised really. I think in people's heads, they think affiliate, well, that's the way that it, my brand comes across, but it's not, there are a multitude of different ways. So, you know, there's a lot of great premium areas that you can align your brand with that are also premium brands.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Right.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Absolutely. I mean, we have such great relationships with some of those publishers that you mentioned, and they really are premium brands in their own right brands like Qantas, Are Media, you know, they've got all those massive premium publishing houses that they work with, which you think of magazines that you would only dream of getting into.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> And this is a really easy way to get your brand into a magazine like Vogue, for example. So being able to kind of lean in and reach those spaces that maybe a PR team might not even be able to get you into from an earned pickup has been a real eye-opener for me in this space.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> And again, I think that comes down to the conversation we've been having about culture, right?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> So, I've worked in publishing houses, I've actually worked at Are Media, and the thing that we used to say when we were there was that we define culture in that business. You know, like magazine editors have to think three months ahead because that is the deadline where you have to get all your content in for it to be published physically.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> And so they're not reporting on trends, they're setting trends. They're saying what it's gonna be in three months time. And so, you know, if you are a brand that wants to get into culture, this is a fantastic way of doing it because you're only paying for a sale that comes as a referral from that publication.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> So from the start of where you're at now to where you started, how's your perception changed on affiliate marketing?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Oh my gosh. It has completely transformed. I would say my initial understanding was so limited. I came really from that traditional digital marketing background. I was pretty much just, you know, Google and Facebook.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> So this was just such a whole new world, and when I kind of dove in and started learning, you know, I really have to throw out a shout out to Kate from Commission Factory. Yay. Who really helped. Kind of guide my understanding of the channel. I think we were kind of really stuck in that loyalty and promotion side of affiliate marketing early on, and whilst it's super great, it's just so transactional and it doesn't necessarily align with our broader brand strategy, and we've moved into things like content. So the, Are Medias of the world, but also influencers. We work with LTK as well. I think being able to drive content from not just the print side of publishers, but also from the social media side, has really helped to elevate our program in a way that's not so transactional.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> So I think, yeah, it was a real development for me in my understanding of affiliate marketing and how it could be used more broadly across your entire kind of funnel strategy, just conversions focused.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Yeah. I love what you mentioned before about working with different influencers and partnering with them, so not just working with them, partnering with them, and using their expertise as a way to communicate new product launches.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I think there's some people who mistake affiliate marketing to be just another here's a bunch of places I'm gonna promote my product and let's see what comes back. But actually the best impact is building these really fruitful partnerships with publishers or individuals or influencers who can start to become that brand advocate for you as well.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Absolutely. I think the influencer space, you could have a whole podcast on that as well because I think. It drives so much more authenticity from like an influencer perspective when you create relationships that are more ongoing versus a one and done style partnership. Yeah, and I think from the consumer perspective, when I see influencers who promote just any old brand and they just are like one than the next one and the next one shocking.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> It just doesn't really communicate like a strong message to me. So I think that the influencer world has changed so much in the last 10 years. I think people kind of see through that one and done style of influencer marketing and they really latch onto the specific influencers or creators that they like to follow and the ones that they trust.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Yeah, I think the affiliate approach is a great way to get into the influencer marketing game rather than looking at a reach perspective because it doesn't matter. You can hit a great influencer, but I mean, I'll use an example. I saw one the other day, Melbourne Mother, beautiful home, quite wealthy, busting out the Old El Paso to cook to her kids, and I'm like, there's no way on Earth, you are cooking Old El Paso for your kids. Especially because she was talking about going to a one of Melbourne's best restaurants yesterday. Do you know what I mean? And so there's an inauthenticity there that sure she's got the reach and sure your brand was seen, but did anyone actually A, believe that, and B, does that help your brand or hurt your brand?</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> I'm not quite sure.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Yeah. Absolutely. I think targeting influences in your strategy that have that really engaged following is so much more important than going after influencers that just have a massive follow, account engagement would definitely be more important than reach because that's not your target audience.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Then that message is never gonna resonate with their audience.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Yep. I have one last question and then we'll wrap. I promise. Regarding affiliate, though, I know you guys are doing some really good stuff in the attribution modeling space, so I know you're not allowed to tell me too much, it's top secret, but can you say what you can about some of the really interesting ways that you are looking at affiliate and how it is driving, not just performance metrics, but awareness and loyalty.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Yeah, so I think it's so easy for brands to measure their impact at that last touch level. That's what you see in Google Analytics when you're looking in your affiliate dashboard, such as the Commission Factory dashboard. You see that kind of post click model. I think using data driven and multi-touch modeling to understand the impact that not just the affiliate space, but all of your marketing channels.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Play in that influence of that conversion is really important for understanding things like which channels drive awareness, consideration, and conversion. And I think that the affiliate space is seen as a conversion driving channel, similar to the way people see paid search or shopping is really conversion driving channels.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> But what we kind of can ascertain through that multi-touch modeling is it actually plays a role in every phase of the funnel, including online and offline channels. So we're able to ascertain that there's incrementality in purchases that are made in our retail stores, as well as those that are made on our e-commerce website, driven out of those content partnerships, and even things like the cashback sites.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> They all play a role in not only that last touch conversion and being able to attribute revenue back to that last touch of the affiliate, but there is incrementality being driven out of the program beyond that kind of last touch look. So when you kind of zoom out and look at all of the channels working together in the guest journey or the customer journey, You can see that it's so much more impactful than you even thought it was before when you just looked at it from the last touch level.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Finally, more brands are doing that hey? Yeah, it's really interesting, everything that you've talked about. You know, a brand here doesn't price promote. It does stick to its guns, it does stick to its values. You know, we are a premium property, and that's what we do yet using affiliate marketing, which for many people is still considered a price promotional channel, which it's not.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> You know, you're using it for branding, you're using it to drive awareness. You're using it. To build the perception of your product as premium. Just doing it in a very smart way. It's really interesting and hopefully inspires a lot of brands out there as well.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Hopefully. I hope I've been able to share some of my knowledge.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Not proclaiming to be any kind of expert, but definitely have learned a lot of lessons in my time in this chair.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Well, if it all started from you listening to podcasts, then I hope it might start for a few others out there stepping into a role and going, oh, where do I start? Well, you listen to this one and hopefully get some inspiration.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> A hundred percent. And if you have imposter syndrome, you're not alone. We all have it.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Oh, mate. All the time. Well, thank you, Verity. Thank you so much for joining us. Really great chat and look forward to seeing where to next with lululemon.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #72b372;">Verity Rowe:</span></strong> Thanks so much for having me. It's been great.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Well, that's a wrap for season two.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> Thank you so, so much for joining. It's been a pleasure to sit here in the studio and bring such great and inspiring stories to your ears. Hope you've enjoyed the season and found some inspiration. Maybe some of you have tried something new in your own marketing programs. Maybe you've been inspired to launch your own brands, whatever it may be, I hope you're doing it with a smile, and a hustle. Please don't forget to give us a rating and a review. It helps others like you find us and discover new ways to scale their businesses and improve their marketing efforts. If you have any feedback, please email us. Our contact is in the show notes. This podcast is made possible by the amazing team at Commission Factory.</p> <p><strong><span style="color: #6600cc;">Michelle Lomas:</span></strong> If you're interested to get involved in affiliate marketing, reach out to the team. Links are in the show notes. I'm Michelle Lomas. 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