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data-mw-thread-id="h-May_be_duplicate-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-May_be_duplicate-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z"></span>May be duplicate<span data-mw-comment-end="h-May_be_duplicate-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Translatability&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: May be duplicate"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Johan_(WMF)-2017-07-24T14:52:00.000Z-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z">7 years ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z-May_be_duplicate"></span>This appears to be a duplicate of <a href="/wiki/Writing_clearly" title="Writing clearly">Writing clearly</a>, though the term "translatability" is a useful one to use. --<a href="/wiki/User:Nemo_bis" title="User:Nemo bis">Nemo</a> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Translatability#c-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z-May_be_duplicate" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:55, 23 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z-May_be_duplicate"><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z-May_be_duplicate"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Johan_(WMF)-2017-07-24T14:52:00.000Z-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z"></span>Ah, yes, maybe. Thank you. I looked around and couldn't find anything that did what I wanted to do. I'll take a look and see if I can merge anything not already there into that page. (: /<a href="/wiki/User:Johan_(WMF)" title="User:Johan (WMF)">Johan (WMF)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johan_(WMF)" title="User talk:Johan (WMF)">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Translatability#c-Johan_(WMF)-2017-07-24T14:52:00.000Z-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:52, 24 July 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Johan_(WMF)-2017-07-24T14:52:00.000Z-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z"><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Johan_(WMF)-2017-07-24T14:52:00.000Z-Nemo_bis-2017-07-23T11:55:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""More_translation_units"" data-mw-thread-id="h-"More_translation_units"-20240710143000"><span id=".22More_translation_units.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"More_translation_units"-20240710143000"></span>"More translation units"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-"More_translation_units"-20240710143000"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Translatability&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: "More translation units""><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Amire80-20240726011600-Shirayuki-20240712234200">4 months ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>5 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>4 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amire80-20240710143000-"More_translation_units""></span>I had <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Y65atzx2j35zdih4" class="extiw" title="mw:Topic:Y65atzx2j35zdih4">a discussion about translation unit length with some editors</a>, and one of them pointed me here. </p><p>The current text of this page says: </p> <dl><dd>Don't put too much text within one translation unit. Create more translation units instead.</dd></dl> <p>There is probably wide consensus about the first part of this, but the second part about <i>Creating more translation units instead</i> is ambiguous. Many people would probably agree that it's a good idea to create more translation units, but <b>how</b> exactly should it be done? </p><p>A few translation administrators split paragraphs into many translation units by putting every sentence in a <translate> tag. This is excessive: Although this may be convenient for some translators, it makes editing the source text difficult. It also forces a sentence structure that is too strict: some languages, such as Thai and Burmese, use spaces and division into sentences quite differently from English, and it's better to think in terms of paragraphs than sentences and let translators structure the paragraph. </p><p>A more balanced solution would be to ensure that paragraphs are short to begin with. Usually, manuals of style for writing documents like the ones we need on meta and mediawiki.org suggest having no more than five sentences per paragraph. This would be good for all readers in all languages, and not too long for translators. </p><p>Here's my suggestion for replacing "Create more translation units instead": </p> <dl><dd>Paragraphs should be no longer than five sentences. In lists, put each item within a translation tag and leave the * or # markup outside the tags.</dd></dl> <p>Other thoughts? </p><p>Tagging people who may be interested: @<a href="/wiki/User:Johan_(WMF)" title="User:Johan (WMF)">Johan (WMF)</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Quiddity_(WMF)" title="User:Quiddity (WMF)">Quiddity (WMF)</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Nemo_bis" title="User:Nemo bis">Nemo bis</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Nikerabbit" title="User:Nikerabbit">Nikerabbit</a>, @<a href="/wiki/User:Shirayuki" title="User:Shirayuki">Shirayuki</a> <a href="/wiki/User:Amire80" title="User:Amire80">Amir E. Aharoni</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amire80" title="User talk:Amire80">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Translatability#c-Amire80-20240710143000-"More_translation_units"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:30, 10 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amire80-20240710143000-"More_translation_units""><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amire80-20240710143000-"More_translation_units""></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Johan_(WMF)-20240710161600-Amire80-20240710143000"></span>Not sure I agree with telling people that paragraphs shouldn't be longer than five sentences (people might take it a bit too literally), but I like a) the reminder to keep paragraphs shorter and legible and b) pointing out that new paragraphs is a good way to create translation units without messing up the source text. <a href="/wiki/User:Johan_(WMF)" title="User:Johan (WMF)">Johan (WMF)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Johan_(WMF)" title="User talk:Johan (WMF)">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Translatability#c-Johan_(WMF)-20240710161600-Amire80-20240710143000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:16, 10 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Johan_(WMF)-20240710161600-Amire80-20240710143000"><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Johan_(WMF)-20240710161600-Amire80-20240710143000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Quiddity_(WMF)-20240710174300-Amire80-20240710143000"></span>I agree with Johan (and the proposed change). I also appreciate the examples of specific languages that may need to alter paragraph structure during translation; I'd heard of that before, but always hesitated to mention it because I wasn't sure of specifics. Thanks! <a href="/wiki/User:Quiddity_(WMF)" title="User:Quiddity (WMF)">Quiddity (WMF)</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Quiddity_(WMF)" title="User talk:Quiddity (WMF)">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Translatability#c-Quiddity_(WMF)-20240710174300-Amire80-20240710143000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:43, 10 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Quiddity_(WMF)-20240710174300-Amire80-20240710143000"><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Quiddity_(WMF)-20240710174300-Amire80-20240710143000"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shirayuki-20240712234200-Amire80-20240710143000"></span>What statistical basis do you have for the recommendation that paragraphs should be no longer than five sentences? <a href="/wiki/User:Shirayuki" title="User:Shirayuki">Shirayuki</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shirayuki" title="User talk:Shirayuki">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Translatability#c-Shirayuki-20240712234200-Amire80-20240710143000" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:42, 12 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shirayuki-20240712234200-Amire80-20240710143000"><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shirayuki-20240712234200-Amire80-20240710143000"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Amire80-20240726011600-Shirayuki-20240712234200"></span>I don't have statistics, but it is a recommendation in many style guides. <a href="/wiki/User:Amire80" title="User:Amire80">Amir E. Aharoni</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Amire80" title="User talk:Amire80">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Translatability#c-Amire80-20240726011600-Shirayuki-20240712234200" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:16, 26 July 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Amire80-20240726011600-Shirayuki-20240712234200"><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-iconElement-noIcon oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Amire80-20240726011600-Shirayuki-20240712234200"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Translatability&oldid=27174585">https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Translatability&oldid=27174585</a>"</div></div> <div id="catlinks" class="catlinks catlinks-allhidden" data-mw="interface"></div> </div> </main> </div> <div class="mw-footer-container"> <footer id="footer" class="mw-footer" > <ul id="footer-info"> <li id="footer-info-lastmod"> This page was last edited on 26 July 2024, at 01:16.</li> <li id="footer-info-copyright">Text is available under the <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/deed.en">Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License</a>; additional terms may apply. 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