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<!DOCTYPE html> <html lang="en" class=" story nytapp-vi-article " xmlns:og="http://opengraphprotocol.org/schema/"> <head> <meta charset="utf-8" /> <title data-rh="true">From Serial Productions: The Retrievals - The New York Times</title> <meta data-rh="true" name="robots" content="noarchive, max-image-preview:large"/><meta data-rh="true" name="description" content="Dozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A five-part narrative series explores the shocking events that unfolded there."/><meta data-rh="true" property="twitter:url" content="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/22/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html"/><meta data-rh="true" property="twitter:title" content="From Serial Productions: The Retrievals (Published 2023)"/><meta data-rh="true" property="twitter:description" content="Dozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. 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id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1ruvd04" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00/3:23</div><div class="css-og85jy">-3:23</div></div></div></div></header><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxywau"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-8p0vwh">From Serial Productions: The Retrievals</h2><h4 class="css-qsd3hm">Dozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A five-part narrative series explores the shocking events that unfolded there.</h4><time dateTime="2023-06-22T09:00:26.000Z" class="css-1e6es05">2023-06-22T05:00:26-04:00</time></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh"></dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women are seeking fertility treatment for a variety of reasons. They’ve had a couple of miscarriages, and they’re pushing 40. They don’t have fallopian tubes, or they need sperm. All of them wind up at the fertility clinic at Yale University.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">They meet their doctors, get the info, start giving themselves the shots. And eventually, they get to the day they’ve been waiting for — the day of the first egg retrieval.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The day of the retrieval, the women arrive at the clinic. They check in on different mornings, in different months and calendar years. None of them are here on the same day, but they will come out of the day with the same story.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They started the procedure. And, you know, I was just sort of taken by surprise, not expecting the excruciating pain. My blood pressure started going up. I was sweating profusely and telling them I was just in too much pain, that they had to stop. At that point, I remember them giving me more, more of the pain medication, and me saying, it’s not making a difference.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember yelling or kind of making like, aah, and really looking in confusion at my nurse, the attending nurse, and her saying, I’m giving you the most I can legally give you.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 3</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She said that that’s the maximum that she’s allowed to give me. So she couldn’t give me anything else.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">At one point, they did say that I had maxed out. I couldn’t have any more fentanyl or versed. And I was like, how is this possible?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How is that even — like, how am I feeling?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How do people go through this?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember thrusting my hips up, saying, “I feel everything.” I don’t know. But what are you going to do? I wanted the procedure done. I just let it happen. And I was like, I’m awake, so.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patients didn’t know why they were in pain. Their doctors didn’t know either. And in the absence of information about the pain, people came up with stories to explain it. The patients constructed stories. Staffers at the clinic came up with theories, too. Eventually, a nurse would tell her own story about the pain, as would Yale.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 4</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Yale Fertility Clinic is not one doctor in a back alley. This is an entire institution that’s behind it. It’s got this reputation. How do they not see that this is happening?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Am I being difficult? I mean, you just question your sense of self.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 5</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You are treated like a hysterical woman from the second you walk in there.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like, nobody believed me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I felt crazy.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In fertility treatment, you evaluate the outcome by whether you wind up with a baby. The outcomes here are a lot more complicated for everyone.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 6</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Are you kidding me?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 7</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s when I lost it.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 8</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I could almost feel like the bomb dropped.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 9</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Bullshit. No harm done?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 7</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">There’s no way I can ever look at this lady the same way.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">From Serial Productions and The New York Times, I’m Susan Burton. This is The Retrievals, coming June 29.</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><div style="position:absolute;width:0;height:0;visibility:hidden;display:none"></div><header class="css-1vwfk9f" data-breakpoint=""><div style="width:100%" data-testid="default-layout"><div style="background-image:url(https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/20/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-album-art/serial-the-retrievals-album-art-videoFifteenBySeven2610.jpg)" class="css-18qqsen e1eullfg0"><div class="css-1hmsypo e1eullfg2"><div class="css-131hid3 e1eullfg3"><div class="css-1uhi299 e1eullfg1"></div><div class="css-1tloyb6"><div class="css-1kltdsh ehra6vc0"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-retrievals" class="css-2ne0py"><span class="css-1f76qa2"><img alt="The Retrievals logo" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/20/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-album-art/serial-the-retrievals-album-art-square320.jpg"/><span>The Retrievals</span></span></a></div></div><div class="css-1r0dpua e1eullfg4"><div class="css-1gu519p edye5kn0"><div><h1 class="css-1afsq3q edye5kn2">From Serial Productions: The Retrievals</h1><h2 class="css-corlih edye5kn3">Dozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A five-part narrative series explores the shocking events that unfolded there.</h2></div><span class="css-lsnb14 edye5kn4"></span><button type="button" class="css-w62hzm" aria-haspopup="true" aria-label="Show Audio Transcript"><div class="css-1vd84sn"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="24" height="20" viewBox="0 0 24 20" fill="#F8F8F8"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M0 0H24V20H0V0ZM3 7H21V9H3V7ZM21 11H3V13H21V11ZM3 15H21V17H3V15ZM11 3H3V5H11V3Z" fill="#F8F8F8"></path></svg><span class="css-16bt4xd">Transcript</span></div></button></div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabindex="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="white" fill-opacity="0.9"></circle><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-title" role="region"><header class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-title">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to The Retrievals</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-testid="transcript-playback-controls"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabindex="99" type="button" class="css-1eut9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--color-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><title>bars</title><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1ruvd04" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00/3:23</div><div class="css-og85jy">-0:00</div></div></div></div></header><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxywau"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-8p0vwh">From Serial Productions: The Retrievals</h2><h4 class="css-qsd3hm">Dozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A five-part narrative series explores the shocking events that unfolded there.</h4><time dateTime="2023-06-22T09:00:26.000Z" class="css-1e6es05">2023-06-22T05:00:26-04:00</time></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh"></dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women are seeking fertility treatment for a variety of reasons. They’ve had a couple of miscarriages, and they’re pushing 40. They don’t have fallopian tubes, or they need sperm. All of them wind up at the fertility clinic at Yale University.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">They meet their doctors, get the info, start giving themselves the shots. And eventually, they get to the day they’ve been waiting for — the day of the first egg retrieval.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The day of the retrieval, the women arrive at the clinic. They check in on different mornings, in different months and calendar years. None of them are here on the same day, but they will come out of the day with the same story.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They started the procedure. And, you know, I was just sort of taken by surprise, not expecting the excruciating pain. My blood pressure started going up. I was sweating profusely and telling them I was just in too much pain, that they had to stop. At that point, I remember them giving me more, more of the pain medication, and me saying, it’s not making a difference.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember yelling or kind of making like, aah, and really looking in confusion at my nurse, the attending nurse, and her saying, I’m giving you the most I can legally give you.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 3</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She said that that’s the maximum that she’s allowed to give me. So she couldn’t give me anything else.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">At one point, they did say that I had maxed out. I couldn’t have any more fentanyl or versed. And I was like, how is this possible?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How is that even — like, how am I feeling?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How do people go through this?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember thrusting my hips up, saying, “I feel everything.” I don’t know. But what are you going to do? I wanted the procedure done. I just let it happen. And I was like, I’m awake, so.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patients didn’t know why they were in pain. Their doctors didn’t know either. And in the absence of information about the pain, people came up with stories to explain it. The patients constructed stories. Staffers at the clinic came up with theories, too. Eventually, a nurse would tell her own story about the pain, as would Yale.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 4</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Yale Fertility Clinic is not one doctor in a back alley. This is an entire institution that’s behind it. It’s got this reputation. How do they not see that this is happening?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Am I being difficult? I mean, you just question your sense of self.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 5</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You are treated like a hysterical woman from the second you walk in there.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like, nobody believed me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I felt crazy.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In fertility treatment, you evaluate the outcome by whether you wind up with a baby. The outcomes here are a lot more complicated for everyone.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 6</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Are you kidding me?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 7</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s when I lost it.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 8</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I could almost feel like the bomb dropped.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 9</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Bullshit. No harm done?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">speaker 7</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">There’s no way I can ever look at this lady the same way.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">From Serial Productions and The New York Times, I’m Susan Burton. This is The Retrievals, coming June 29.</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div></div><div class="css-1xgepvx e1eullfg5"></div></div></div></div><div class="css-fnovkn e1gfokfg0"><button type="button" class="css-nb9ngq" disabled=""><span class="css-1ly73wi e1tej78p0">Previous</span><svg width="13" height="23" viewBox="0 0 13 23" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M15 15V15.0054H0V13.0054H13.0054V0H15.0054V15H15Z" transform="translate(22.1133 11.5027) rotate(135)" fill="#E2E2E2"></path></svg></button><div class="css-1s78rjm e1gfokfg1"><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><div class="css-hoe9xz"><span class="css-nxkttv">More episodes of</span><span class="css-19zi9mh">The Retrievals</span></div></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/03/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html?action=click&module=audio-series-bar&region=header&pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/26/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-ep-5/serial-the-retrievals-ep-2-03-thumbLarge.jpg" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-1nyt5r5">August 3, 2023<span> <span class="css-orcm78">•</span> 53:49</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">‘The Retrievals,’ Episode 5: The Outcomes</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/27/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html?action=click&module=audio-series-bar&region=header&pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/27/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-ep-4/-serial-the-retrievals-ep-4-thumbLarge.jpg" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-1nyt5r5">July 27, 2023<span> <span class="css-orcm78">•</span> 38:00</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">‘The Retrievals,’ Episode 4: The Clinic</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/13/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html?action=click&module=audio-series-bar&region=header&pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/26/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-ep-3/serial-the-retrievals-ep-2-thumbLarge.jpg" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-1nyt5r5">July 13, 2023<span> <span class="css-orcm78">•</span> 46:39</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">‘The Retrievals,’ Episode 3: The Sentence</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/06/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html?action=click&module=audio-series-bar&region=header&pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/26/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-ep-2/serial-the-retrievals-ep-2-02-thumbLarge.jpg" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-1nyt5r5">July 6, 2023<span> <span class="css-orcm78">•</span> 33:03</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">‘The Retrievals,’ Episode 2: The Nurse</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/29/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html?action=click&module=audio-series-bar&region=header&pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/26/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-ep-1/serial-the-retrievals-ep-1-thumbLarge.jpg" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-1nyt5r5">June 29, 2023<span> <span class="css-orcm78">•</span> 56:31</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">‘The Retrievals,’ Episode 1: The Patients</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/22/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html?action=click&module=audio-series-bar&region=header&pgtype=Article"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/22/podcasts/22retrievals-promo-1/22retrievals-promo-1-thumbLarge-v3.jpg" class="css-17x2avq e1gfokfg4"/><div class="css-14o8mz7 e1gfokfg2"><span><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 40 40" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path d="M40 20C40 31.0457 31.0457 40 20 40C8.9543 40 0 31.0457 0 20C0 8.9543 8.9543 0 20 0C31.0457 0 40 8.9543 40 20Z" fill="black" fill-opacity="0.2"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M20 38C29.9411 38 38 29.9411 38 20C38 10.0589 29.9411 2 20 2C10.0589 2 2 10.0589 2 20C2 29.9411 10.0589 38 20 38ZM20 40C31.0457 40 40 31.0457 40 20C40 8.9543 31.0457 0 20 0C8.9543 0 0 8.9543 0 20C0 31.0457 8.9543 40 20 40Z" fill="white"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M9.91667 5.83333L0 11.6667V0L9.91667 5.83333Z" transform="translate(17.082 14.1666)" fill="white"></path></svg></span></div><div class="css-1qq8bvn"><time class="css-1nyt5r5">June 22, 2023<span> <span class="css-orcm78">•</span> 3:23</span></time><span class="css-i5svdo">From Serial Productions: The Retrievals</span></div></a></div><div data-recirc-bar-item="true" class="css-uq6cyc e1gfokfg3"><div class="css-1o3broy"><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/column/the-retrievals" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><span class="css-nxkttv">See All Episodes of</span><span class="css-cbc4vz">The Retrievals</span></a></div></div></div><button type="button" class="css-1anqzt0"><span class="css-1ly73wi e1tej78p0">Next</span><svg width="13" height="23" viewBox="0 0 13 23" fill="none" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M15 15V15.0054H0V13.0054H13.0054V0H15.0054V15H15Z" transform="translate(22.1133 11.5027) rotate(135)" fill="#121212"></path></svg></button></div></div></header><script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"AudioObject","@id":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/1a11b0ee-a161-44b7-a16f-f436c46d74cc/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=1a11b0ee-a161-44b7-a16f-f436c46d74cc&nocache","description":"","name":"Introducing ‘The Retrievals’","contentUrl":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/1a11b0ee-a161-44b7-a16f-f436c46d74cc/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=1a11b0ee-a161-44b7-a16f-f436c46d74cc&nocache","uploadDate":"2023-06-22T09:00:14.000Z","transcript":"[MUSIC PLAYING] The women are seeking fertility treatment for a variety of reasons. They've had a couple of miscarriages, and they're pushing 40. They don't have fallopian tubes, or they need sperm. All of them wind up at the fertility clinic at Yale University. They meet their doctors, get the info, start giving themselves the shots. And eventually, they get to the day they've been waiting for -- the day of the first egg retrieval. The day of the retrieval, the women arrive at the clinic. They check in on different mornings, in different months and calendar years. None of them are here on the same day, but they will come out of the day with the same story. They started the procedure. And, you know, I was just sort of taken by surprise, not expecting the excruciating pain. My blood pressure started going up. I was sweating profusely and telling them I was just in too much pain, that they had to stop. At that point, I remember them giving me more, more of the pain medication, and me saying, it's not making a difference. I remember yelling or kind of making like, aah, and really looking in confusion at my nurse, the attending nurse, and her saying, I'm giving you the most I can legally give you. She said that that's the maximum that she's allowed to give me. So she couldn't give me anything else. At one point, they did say that I had maxed out. I couldn't have any more fentanyl or versed. And I was like, how is this possible? How is that even -- like, how am I feeling? How do people go through this? I remember thrusting my hips up, saying, \"I feel everything.\" I don't know. But what are you going to do? I wanted the procedure done. I just let it happen. And I was like, I'm awake, so. The patients didn't know why they were in pain. Their doctors didn't know either. And in the absence of information about the pain, people came up with stories to explain it. The patients constructed stories. Staffers at the clinic came up with theories, too. Eventually, a nurse would tell her own story about the pain, as would Yale. The Yale Fertility Clinic is not one doctor in a back alley. This is an entire institution that's behind it. It's got this reputation. How do they not see that this is happening? Am I being difficult? I mean, you just question your sense of self. You are treated like a hysterical woman from the second you walk in there. Like, nobody believed me. I felt crazy. In fertility treatment, you evaluate the outcome by whether you wind up with a baby. The outcomes here are a lot more complicated for everyone. Are you kidding me? That's when I lost it. I could almost feel like the bomb dropped. Bullshit. No harm done? There's no way I can ever look at this lady the same way. From Serial Productions and The New York Times, I'm Susan Burton. This is The Retrievals, coming June 29.","duration":"PT0.203S"}</script><div class="css-a19wyd"><time dateTime="2023-08-15T10:29:56-04:00" class="css-14mhtjo e16638kd2"><span class="css-1sbuyqj e16638kd3">Published June 22, 2023</span><span class="css-233int e16638kd4">Updated Aug. 15, 2023</span></time><div role="toolbar" data-testid="share-tools" aria-label="Social Media Share buttons, Save button, and Comments Panel with current comment count" class="css-yomkvi"><div></div><div class="css-d8bdto"><ul class="css-1atjma0"><li class="css-1c5ewvl"><div class="css-vxcmzt"><div class="css-79elbk"><button type="button" aria-label="" aria-expanded="false" class="css-1eeh360 actionbar-button" data-testid="gift-article-button"><span class="css-10d8k1f"><svg aria-hidden="true" width="19" height="19" viewBox="0 0 19 19"><path d="M18.04 5.293h-2.725c.286-.34.493-.74.606-1.17a2.875 2.875 0 0 0-.333-2.322A2.906 2.906 0 0 0 13.64.48a3.31 3.31 0 0 0-2.372.464 3.775 3.775 0 0 0-1.534 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css-ojhyzr e1jsehar0" itemProp="name">Susan Burton</a></p><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">Produced by </span><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/by/susan-burton" class="css-ojhyzr e1jsehar0" itemProp="name">Susan Burton</a> and <span class="css-1baulvz last-byline" itemProp="name">Laura Starecheski</span></p><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">Edited by </span><span class="css-1baulvz" itemProp="name">Laura Starecheski</span> and <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/by/julie-snyder" class="last-byline css-ojhyzr e1jsehar0" itemProp="name">Julie Snyder</a></p><p class="css-1xuzukf e1jsehar1"><span class="byline-prefix">Original music by </span><span class="css-1baulvz last-byline" itemProp="name">Carla Pallone</span></p></div></div></div></div><h3 class="css-1vs5pxi e1gnsphs0" id="link-d39aea9"><span><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Listen and follow ‘The Retrievals’</em><br/><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-retrievals/id1691599042" title="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Apple Podcasts</em></a><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0"> | </em><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://open.spotify.com/show/6EvG4iL7sOi8L4UrzLopmE?si=61ad378f2fb64093" title="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Spotify</em></a><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0"> | </em><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://www.stitcher.com/show/1073776" title="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Stitcher</em></a><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0"> | </em><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://music.amazon.com/podcasts/8be6789a-9ef6-4adf-a8e7-103947432eab/the-retrievals" title="" rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"><em class="css-2fg4z9 e1gzwzxm0">Amazon Music</em></a></span></h3><hr class="css-7ad88g e1mu4ftr0"/><p class="css-dm4b14 e1wiw3jv0">The patients in this story came to the Yale Fertility Center to pursue pregnancy. They began their I.V.F. cycles full of expectation and hope. Then a surgical procedure called egg retrieval caused them excruciating pain.</p><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">Some of the patients screamed out in the procedure room. Others called the clinic from home to report pain in the hours that followed. But most of the staff members who fielded the patients’ reports did not know the real reason for the pain, which was that a nurse at the clinic was stealing fentanyl and replacing it with saline.</p><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">From Serial Productions and The New York Times, The Retrievals is a five-part narrative series reported by Susan Burton, a veteran staff member at “This American Life” and author of the memoir “Empty.”</p><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">Burton details the events that unfolded at the clinic, and examines how the patients’ distinct identities informed the way they made sense of what happened to them in the procedure room. The nurse, too, has her own story, about her own pain, that she tells to the court. And then there is the story of how this all could have happened at the Yale clinic in the first place.</p><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">Throughout, Burton explores the stories we tell about women’s pain. How do we tolerate, interpret and account for it? What happens when pain is minimized or dismissed?</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="Dropzone-1"></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-1"><div class="css-53u6y8"><hr class="css-7ad88g e1mu4ftr0"/><h2 class="css-11rezm5 eoo0vm40" id="link-70489142">Listen to The Retrievals </h2></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="AudioBlock-3"><figure class="margins-h css-1nhp71k"><figcaption class="css-5soref"><div class="audioFigureHeading"><h3 class="css-71086k">Episode 1: The Patients</h3></div></figcaption><div class="css-1ijhom3"><div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabindex="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="white" fill-opacity="0.9"></circle><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-title" role="region"><header class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-title">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to The Retrievals</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-testid="transcript-playback-controls"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabindex="99" type="button" class="css-1eut9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--color-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><title>bars</title><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1ruvd04" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00/56:31</div><div class="css-og85jy">-56:31</div></div></div></div></header><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxywau"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-8p0vwh">Episode 1: The Patients</h2></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women are seeking fertility treatment for a variety of reasons. They’ve had a couple of miscarriages and they’re pushing 40, they don’t have fallopian tubes or they need sperm. One woman has a diagnosis that’s like a metaphor from feminist sci-fi, a uterus with a single horn like a unicorn. All of them wind up at the fertility clinic at Yale University.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">A couple of the women choose this clinic because they work at Yale and that’s what the Yale Health plan covers. Others go to Yale on the recommendation of their doctors. But in Connecticut, you don’t even really need the recommendation. Yale medicine, it’s a blue chip medical brand.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allison</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, Yale is just a huge name. And you just think anything that has anything to do with Yale is going to be the best of the best.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s really not close to our house. It’s not where I would have gone. But we figured, another doctor from another hospital said this is the best you can get. And you want — of course, you want that.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">To some of the women, the clinic seems to live up to its billing. They like their doctors, feel cared for by them. “That man is an angel,” one of the women tells me. “He is by far the best doctor I’ve ever had.” Others are not happy at the clinic from the start. It’s things like feeling like a number or issues with communication. There’s a lot to communicate.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You don’t know how hard fertility treatment is until you get into it. And once you start it in one place, it can be difficult to go somewhere else. So they talk themselves into staying. That’s the first thing they go against their instincts and talk themselves into.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women drive to the clinic before work in the morning for blood draws and then wait for the afternoon email from their nurse team. “You really have to trust your nurse team,” one of the women tells me. At this point, she did. The nurse team gives instructions and the women give themselves shots. These shots contain hormones to stimulate the body to produce eggs. A side effect is emotional volatility.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“The wind is making me cry,” one of the women says. But the thing is, you have to stay calm, don’t get stressed. It’s so stressful trying not to get stressed. One woman uses a fertility meditation app called Expectful. She does her guided meditation on the beach. The app plays the sound of waves while the real waves heave in the background. It’s absurd, but so much of this is absurd, including the money. There’s all kinds of stuff that’s not covered no matter what insurance you have.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Meanwhile, your ovaries enlarge and you get so bloated that your abdomen feels like bricks. And then finally, you get to the day you’ve been waiting for, the day of the first egg retrieval, which is what it sounds like. The eggs are removed from the body and then fertilized or frozen, depending on what you’re doing.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">How many eggs am I going to get? That is the big question. The more eggs you get, the better your chance of a healthy embryo, a viable pregnancy, a child. The day of the retrieval, the women arrive at the clinic. They check in on different mornings and different months and calendar years. None of them are here on the same day, but they will come out of the day with the same story.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Laura arrives for her retrieval on a weekday morning in January 2020. She checks in and changes into a gown. Two months ago, Laura was diagnosed with breast cancer. A double mastectomy followed, then an infection and additional surgeries. As soon as she freezes her eggs, she’s going to start treatment. It’s a lot. Laura is trying to put all of that to the side and just focus on the procedure ahead.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">was excited, like trying to stay positive. And I was just like, having been through so much just the month prior, I was like, this is going to be easy. Because I had been through so many surgeries and procedures, I was just like, I know what this is like. I know what it’s like to be under anesthesia or something and be given medication so you don’t feel things.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The egg retrieval is a surgical procedure. A long needle is inserted into the vagina, then pierced through the vaginal wall and up into the ovary. Laura has been told in advance what drugs she will be getting during the procedure.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Two drugs, fentanyl, and another one, midozalam or zalam. And I believe that one’s to induce sleepiness.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Together, these two drugs offer what’s often called moderate sedation. Basically, the fentanyl takes away pain and the midazolam relaxes you. Some people get drowsy with this combination. Others remain alert. The use of fentanyl surprises some of the women. One of them, a public defender, has seen a lot of clients messed up by fentanyl, and for a second, she’s worried. Another woman, Katie, a neuroscientist at Yale, feels a spark of interest.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And in fact, just being someone who studies addiction and studies some opioid use disorder and as a curious person, I remember the morning of thinking, like, OK, this will be interesting. I’ve never tried fentanyl before. So I expected to go in and have twilight anesthesia, not full anesthesia, but not feel anything.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women complete the last steps before the procedure, get an IV, go over some papers. If their partners came back with them, now their partners say goodbye. And then it is time. The women tell what happens next.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I walked myself into the procedure room because you get rolled out afterwards, but you don’t have any medication in you. You’re just kind of hooked up to the IV pole. And I walked into there, and you get on the chair or table, whatever they call it. And that’s from there, they said, you’re not going to feel anything. And they explained everything that was going to happen.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">They started the procedure. And you know, I was just sort of taken by surprise, not expecting the excruciating pain, and just letting them know that I don’t think the pain medication is doing anything. It really feels like you’re stabbing the needle.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I felt everything.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s literally your most intimate parts of your body. They’re using these long needles. And there’s also a screen so I can watch what they’re doing. And I couldn’t. I had to try and look away because literally, each needle pierce you feel.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">As we were moving along, it was my blood pressure started going up. I was sweating profusely and telling them I was just in too much pain, that they had to stop. At that point, I remember them giving me more of the pain medication, and me saying, it’s not making a difference, a nurse coming over and putting a wet towel on my head, and another nurse holding my hand, and them comforting me and saying, you know, you’re going to be OK.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The nurse who — she was at the top of my body kind of at my shoulders, wiping the tears away and helping me kind of hold my breath to keep myself still so that the doctors didn’t slip with the needle, and just telling me that I was going to be OK, that I was going to get through it.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And up until that moment, I’m so excited. Like, oh, I have 24 follicles. Like, this is great. Like, I’m going to have a great egg retrieval. And then you’re like, oh my god. I wish there was only one. Like, everything was counting on that retrieval and that’s how it feels, like, the weight of your world. My partner and I — she’s counting on me to be able to get through this and to have this successful retrieval. And all I’m feeling is, oh my god. I need it to stop. Is this worth it?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And you know, your feet are in the stirrups. And you know, you’re supposed to be laying on the table, but I remember tightening up and just trying to relax my body so that they could do what they needed to do, because I was so tense that like, my bottom was almost off of the table.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember like thrusting my hips up, actually thrusting my hips up saying, I feel everything. Like, and like, nobody believed me. And it’s just like — I don’t know. But what are you going to do? I wanted the procedure done. I just let it happen. And I was like, I’m awake, so —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No. You know, I was stone cold sober and awake. And I remember, the egg retrieval, they kind of do them one by one or like a couple at a time, my impression. And so you have moments in between pain to say like, what the fuck is going on?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I do remember, I think I swore. I was using curse words because it was just so painful.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t know if I can do this any longer.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, you just have to get through it. It’s going to be over before you know it.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">melissa</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, this is going to be over eventually.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You can do this. You can do this.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You just want this moment to be over.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Get through it. Get through it.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember yelling or kind of making like, ah, and really like looking and confusion at my nurse, the attending nurse, and her saying, I’m giving you the most I can legally give you.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">melissa</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She said that that’s the maximum that she’s allowed to give me, so she couldn’t give me anything else.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m almost certain that at one point, they said that they had given me all of the pain medication that they could give me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">At one point, they did say that I had maxed out. I couldn’t have any more fentanyl or versed. And I was like, how is this possible? ^LAURA^ How is that even — like, how am I feeling this?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">How do people go through this?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I can feel that. Like, I could feel the — I don’t even know how to describe that. Like, you can just feel them inside of there. As a woman, we’ve all been through things with those kind of doctors and stuff. But like, this is just a pain. It’s hard to even explain what it felt like.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is hard to do, but could you describe the pain that you felt?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh gosh.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It felt like someone was like ripping something from the inside of your body.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, which is —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What they are doing, yeah. That’s what it felt like.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, oh, I’m sorry.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But I remember almost immediately thinking, or almost daydreaming in that moment that the attending nurse had one tube going from my IV into my arm and another tube going from my IV into her pocket. Like, it occurred to me almost immediately that the nurse was stealing the fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I remember telling my friends after the procedure, my friends who were aware of what I was going through, but who are also colleagues at Yale in addiction research, I remember telling them like, the nurse is stealing the fentanyl, because it seems so obvious to me. I mean, fentanyl is the most diverted drug in medical settings. It’s like a now major driver of the opioid crisis. And it was just really easy to imagine that someone with access to poorly controlled fentanyl would be abusing it.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s so fascinating that that’s the image that raised itself up for you, because it is so evocative.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Because it is so evocative, and also, because it was true. A nurse at the clinic was stealing fentanyl, not Katie’s nurse, not the tube in the pocket. But a nurse at the clinic was stealing fentanyl and replacing it with saline. She did so undetected for months, which meant patients weren’t getting fentanyl in their IVs. They were getting saltwater instead.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Drug addicted former nurse is sentenced for a crime that caused unbearable pain to dozens of women. The nurse stole drugs and then replaced them with saline solution —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Connecticut nurse admits that she swapped out anesthesia drugs for saltwater, causing excruciating pain to women during infertility treatments.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 3</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It happened at a top-rated center affiliated —</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 4</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Coming to you tonight with a horrible story about the extremes a fertility nurse struggling with drug addiction took to get her fix.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">A federal investigation determined that as many as 200 patients may have been victims of the substitution over five months in 2020. Lawyers for some of the patients believe the real number is higher and this went on for longer. I’ve talked to a dozen patients who believe they were victims of this. 11 of them are plaintiffs in a lawsuit against Yale, and their lawyers were present when we spoke.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I started doing these interviews, I was struck by the echoes in these women’s stories. To me, it sounded like a chorus of women saying, something is wrong here, again and again. The patients wondered how the clinic could have failed to detect this. And the conversations I was having made me wonder that too.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then I began talking to other people, staffers who’d been there, and I learned about what went on behind the scenes. The staffers I spoke to were horrified by what the patients had experienced. They were grappling with their own questions about how this had happened, about what had gone amiss.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patients didn’t know why they were in pain. Their doctors didn’t know either. And in the absence of information about the true cause of the pain, people came up with stories to explain it. The patients constructed stories about why they felt pain. Staffers at the clinic came up with theories too. Eventually, the nurse would tell her own story about the pain, which would launch a whole new set of stories, the ones her friends and family would come up with, the one that would get argued in court, the one Yale would tell. And all of these stories revealed something about women’s pain, how it’s tolerated, interpreted, accounted for, or minimized.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In fertility treatment, you evaluate the outcomes by whether you wind up with a baby. That’s the metric by which success is measured. It all went well if you leave with a live birth. The outcomes here are a lot more complicated for everyone. From Serial Productions and “The New York Times,” I’m Susan Burton, and this is “The Retrievals.” This is episode one, “The Patients.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When the retrieval is over, the women are wheeled out to the recovery room. And one of the first things that happens is that they try to come up with an explanation for their pain.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They put you into the recovery room. And that’s where you meet with whoever you were with. And I just remember, that’s when I had my phone back and I was texting my sister-in-law, because she was my confidant for all of this, having been through that. And she was just replying, like, oh my god, how could you — what do you mean you felt everything? And I was just explaining to her, I’m like, I don’t know what’s wrong. And one of the texts I said, I said, I think I’m immune to fentanyl, because I was like, I don’t think it works on me.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">“I’m not sensitive to fentanyl,” is a common theory.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I remember when the procedure was done, my family sort of — we have a family text that’s ongoing. And I just remember texting them that you know, it’s hard to believe that we have a fentanyl epidemic where people are addicted, because it did nothing for me.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Not all of the women were alert during their procedures. Some were more deeply sedated. They were so out of it during the retrieval that they don’t really remember it, or only kind of. The pain hits when they come to.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was bad instantly. And it shouldn’t really be bad instantly. Like, you shouldn’t wake up and be in horrific, like nightmarish pain. But I woke up and I was — I mean like, it felt like someone had been inside me and gutted me. Yeah, it was like a gutted feeling. It was someone had been inside me, scraped me hollow, it was burning.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In a way, it is more confusing for the wake up later patients. They’re not matching each stab of pain to the needle on the screen. It hurts a lot, but it’s less explicable, and because of that, scarier.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allison</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Your mind just goes to the worst possible places. You know, I’m thinking, am I bleeding? Am I bleeding internally? Is this like, a pain is — normally, a pain is a sign. It’s protective, right? It tells you something’s wrong.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">There’s a lot of uncertainty in the recovery room, an elevated blood pressure, a nurse running around to get ginger ale, a doctor coming by to say, there are fewer eggs than we expected. Are you sure you only want us to fertilize half of them? It’s all just very overwhelming. And on top of it, some of the women feel like they’re being rushed out of the clinic. Julia is one of them.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember vomiting. They were giving me some fluids. I was very uncomfortable. There was no way I could walk. They put me in a wheelchair and wheeled me out. And I just had this feeling like, this is not right.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Julia is 31 years old and already a college professor. This morning when her husband drove to the clinic, she’d been frantic. There was work on a bridge near their house and they got stuck. There’s only a short window to retrieve the eggs before you ovulate them, and Julia was worried she would miss it.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When she arrived at the clinic, she felt a huge relief, like, we made it, both we made it on time and we made it to this day. Now, she’s feeling something she never expected. At home, she goes upstairs and gets into bed.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I fell asleep for a little while, and then I woke up. And I was nervous. We had a babysitter here watching my daughter. And I just wake — you wake up, you’re like, oh my god, who’s with my kid? I need to — and I walked a few steps to try and go down the stairs. And I realized I really had gone too far from the bed.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">By this point, the pain was excruciating, I would say. And I turned to go back to lay down on my bed again. And I mean, I don’t remember this, but I blacked out or passed out. And I woke up on the floor. And I kind of busted my lip open.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Julia calls the clinic, and they tell her that she should go to the ER. She’s in so much pain that she can’t bend enough to get into a car. An ambulance is called. And when Julia gets to the hospital, they check her out. The retrieval is a safe procedure, but things can go wrong. Your ovary can strangulated. A major artery can get punctured.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But none of the obvious things are wrong and nobody can explain what is. Back home over the weekend, Julia calls on-call doctor at the clinic multiple times.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">By Sunday, I sort of got the sense I was annoying him.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Julia keeps waiting for a call from her official doctor. By Tuesday, she still hasn’t heard from him.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was impossible for me to understand how he hadn’t called me by this point. But I called his office on Tuesday basically saying, I need to talk to you. I wrote down what he said, and I’ve kept this note since that time. He said he was not alarmed, but perplexed and surprised at my experience. Those words I guess, ring pretty hollow now, right, knowing that there was a pattern of many women who had extreme, inexplicable pain after the egg retrieval.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What did you make of that language like, in the moment, perplexed and surprised?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was — I mean, I guess I felt crazy. I mean, I felt — I mean, by this point, I’m asking myself like, am I being difficult? I mean, am I — I mean, you just question your sense of self, like your ability to assess your situation rationally, which is very disconcerting when that happens, because at least at the end of the day, you have that, right?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You start thinking about your whole life, right? Like, I’m a pretty high-energy person. Like, I take care of a toddler. I have a PhD. I have a job. Like, I run marathons in my free time. Like, you have all these parts of your life that make you feel — that give you this sense of who you are. And then I just felt like they were treating me like I was nuts for still being in pain and just having what I would call a difficult time.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I just left the office, I mean, crying. I just felt like nobody, nobody cares. That’s the way I would describe how I felt in the days after, like nobody gives a crap that this was so hard for me.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the days after the retrieval, other patients live out versions of the same story. They also call the clinic. They ask, is this normal? They say, the Tylenol isn’t helping. At home, they’re laid up on the couch. They can’t pick up their toddler. They wonder if they really should have scheduled themselves for a shift the next day.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Not all staffers at the clinic are dismissive. But even when they respond with concern, there aren’t any real answers. Some of these conversations take place days after the procedure, like at follow ups to talk about next steps.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You didn’t really talk to the office until day five or day six, which is when I found out that none of the eggs had survived, none were healthy enough to go to testing. And we had to talk about moving forward. And that’s when I really expressed my sort of shock that the procedure was as painful as it was and talked about, if there were other pain management protocols that could be considered at that point. And I was told that that was the best pain medication that was available. And my doctor prescribed me an anxiety medication to take before the next procedure.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I remember saying to my husband, you know, I think it’s strange because I’m not anxious about a medical procedure. It was the pain. It was severe pain, not anxiety about going into it.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">melissa</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The next time that I saw my doctor, he asked me how the procedure went. And I said, it was really, really painful. And he was kind of like a little bit concerned, but then he just didn’t say anything after that. So I was like, OK, I guess — and this was my first time doing it, so I didn’t know any better. So I was like, OK, I guess it’s supposed to be painful.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Other women are talking about what happened with family and friends.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So at that point, I had talked to a couple of family members who had done retrievals. And I felt even worse. There’s nothing like feeling shame from another female, and unintentional too, like, that just seems weird because I was wheeled back there and joked with the staff and then fell asleep and woke up and was fine. And that seemed to be the general consensus between procedures at different clinics — that oh, yeah, I was kind of alert, but I didn’t feel anything. It was really no big deal. Like, the shots ahead of time were way worse than the actual procedure.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I started shutting down after hearing those stories, that this was on me. Like, something wasn’t right with my tolerance and my ability to handle this.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women are already settling on their stories about what happened to them. I’m immune to fentanyl. It’s my fault. It’s supposed to be painful. The clinic tells patients that they may experience mild discomfort. But now, some of them have recalibrated their expectations, including Lynn, who will have eight retrievals at the clinic, all of them will cause her excruciating pain.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, again, you hear about IVF and how tough of a process it is mentally and physically. And I just thought, this is what I have to do. This is what I have to do. And sort of, just thought, this is what women go through.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[SOMBER MUSIC]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yale declined to offer information about how reports of pain were addressed at the clinic or to answer any other questions.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Episode one of “The Retrievals” continues after the break.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Of the 12 patients I spoke to, most are white. The one Black woman in the group was often the only Black woman in the clinic waiting room. Everyone in the group identified as a woman. While a couple of them were pursuing pregnancy for the first time as they neared 40, most did not fit that stereotype.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Most were married to men, one to a woman. That patient would provide the eggs, and her wife would carry the pregnancy. Her wife presents as more stereotypically masculine, doesn’t wear women’s clothing. And at first, family members were like, are you sure you want to do it this way? Yes, they were sure.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">One was doing this on her own at 41 after the end of a long relationship. Another left her boyfriend partway through the process, and then fell in love with the new guy at the office. One was born in Iran and came to the US as a refugee, another grew up in Jamaica. One had what she described as a horrible childhood. She essentially had to raise herself.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Another longed to have a second baby, because she was so close to all of her siblings. One had type 1 diabetes, and was used to everyone always attributing all medical issues to, oh, it’s your diabetes. All of them worked — special ed teacher, an accountant at a Maritime firm, and a lecturer at Yale in the Department of American Studies. Her name is Leah.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Her scholarship encompasses a variety of subjects, exile and migration — she’s the patient who came to the US as a refugee from Iran — and gender. From the beginning of her treatment, Leah located her experience within a context of assumptions about women patients, that they are unreliable narrators of their own symptoms, that they are anxious, exaggerating.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But I remember the first time I went in there to get ready for the ultrasound, there was blood on the floor from a previous person’s ultrasound. And I have to tell you, it was as ominous as the signs fucking come. And I just remember, Navid was with me, I think. Was Navid with me? Oh no, he couldn’t go inside. He was waiting in the car. My husband was waiting in the car.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I was just shaking. I was like, this isn’t good. I mean, it was like — it was like, you walk in and I was like, there’s blood? You guys left blood over? What is going on here?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Did you did you say anything? Like, did you say that?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But here’s the thing, and this is where it begins, is you are treated like a hysterical woman from the second you walk in there. So you already know. And as like a person who — like, I study this stuff. I teach this stuff. And you’re there, and you’re like, this is actually what’s happening right now.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here comes like Freud’s patient, the hysterical woman who’s childless and angry and hormonal and terrified and bitchy and mean. And that’s how we’re going to treat her.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Hysteria comes from the Greek word for uterus. Ancient explanations for it involve an empty uterus, a woman was hysterical because her uterus was not full. Unanchored, the uterus roved through the body, which was what made women sick and crazy. To fix hysteria, you really needed to fill that uterus up.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like so with the blood, I remember being like, there’s blood on the floor, you know? I was really upset. And they’re like, OK. OK, I mean, it’s — it turned right back on me. And I remember one of the nurses was like, OK, well, you can calm down. I was told to calm down.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, and then when they’re doing the ultrasounds, of course, someone’s doing a transvaginal ultrasound, so there’s literally like this stick that’s inside of you and they’re moving it around. And if you cringe, OK, it’ll just be like another — it’s just another second. OK, just be patient. So you’re constantly over-emphasizing or overdramatizing what’s happening. It’s not that big of a deal.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Leah felt like her doctor wasn’t listening to her. She also didn’t trust her assigned nurse. Then came Leah’s first retrieval. She felt her pain wasn’t taken seriously by anyone. She says they all blew her off. Leah wasn’t happy with her treatment, but she decided to continue.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here I was, I saw it. I felt it. I was alarmed by it. But I kept going because I wanted to have a baby.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Leah asked for a new doctor. He oversaw her next cycle, and soon, she went in for another retrieval.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Right after you’re in that room, the anesthesiologist came up to me and she said, you know what? You were waking up. You were waking up. We had to give you some more meds. You know, you were waking up.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So again, you, your body, you were nervous, you were agitated, you burdened us, you’re kind of uncontrollable body put us in a position where we actually had to give you more drugs. You were waking up so we had to give you more fentanyl. And I was like, oh.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But again, to them, to them, I’m this woman who’s already like on edge. I already left the doctor because I didn’t like the doctor. So the other physicians and the other nurses all know this about me. I’m a kind of already unruly, perhaps entitled, overly needy woman, who’s just really angry that she doesn’t have a baby.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">There’s a balance you have to strike as a woman patient. You have to complain just the right amount to be taken seriously, but not so much that you seem shrill. Still, your pain is more likely to be underestimated than men’s. Black women are more likely to have their pain ignored no matter what they do.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">All of this, we know from the literature, and also from life. In my life, I’ve been the kind of patient where if I’ve ever spoken up, I felt like I needed to be obsequious later to protect myself. That is what I felt I needed to perform. Leah knew she’d need to perform a whole range of things in order to get help — stern, docile, smart, stupid, agreeable.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And now, on a gurney in the recovery room, Leah became an observer. She would remember what was happening. She would write about this one day. She tuned into the language and to the emphasis that to her, seemed so interesting and fucked up, into the syntax that seemed to place the blame on her body. But at the same time, Leah had also internalized the narrative that her body was to blame, her body was inadequate, deficient. That was why she was here.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Her body had had miscarriages. Her body didn’t make enough eggs. Her body couldn’t cooperate long enough to get through a critical procedure.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh god, my body — like, here it goes again. Not only can I not like have a baby, I also can’t even just lay still with the right amount of fentanyl.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In this moment, and throughout her treatment, Leah was simultaneously the writer saying, I can name what’s happening here, and the patient saying, how could I have let this happen. Other women occupied their own versions of this position. Their professional identities offered them one kind of story about these events. Their identities as patients directed them to another.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Several of them had an area of expertise that was directly applicable here in a way that is kind of uncanny. For example, there are multiple patients who work in health care, including one who’s designed systems for the safe storage of medications. There’s a nurse anesthetist. She thought the anesthesia was the one part of fertility treatment she wouldn’t have to worry about. And of course, there’s the addiction researcher, Katie, who had the prophetic fantasy.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What’s unique about you is that not only did something was wrong, you knew exactly what was wrong.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I did.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yet still, you constructed like, this other narrative to explain it.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like other patients, Katie had expertise that gave her knowledge. But she and others pushed that knowledge aside. They decided not to know what they knew in order to keep going. I wanted Katie to lay out the path to that cognitive dissonance. I wanted her to explain exactly how she got from one story to the other.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, as I’ve told you, like, I came out of that procedure, and I immediately — I remember immediately texting my friends who are also colleagues in addiction research at Yale, like the nurse is stealing the fentanyl. It just seemed so obvious.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But then, you sort come out of this — I remember just coming out of the shock and recovering from the procedure and things just go on.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">No one is addressing the fact that I was sober during the procedure. And I remember violently shaking in recovery from the shock. I don’t know that that’s related to having the procedure with or without fentanyl, but that’s how my body responded.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And my nurse was there. And I remember her saying, something like, I think it was so painful because we got so many eggs. And so it was just sort of this positive, kind of false narrative about what had happened. And so then I think I coped by coming up with an alternate explanation, which was that I do remember waking up during my — having my wisdom teeth being pulled when I was a kid, to the nurse saying, shit, shit, and then giving me more drugs, putting me back under. So the other explanation for me was that maybe I’m not sensitive to certain opiates.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, and I remember also that kind of became my narrative with — my friends and colleagues kind of remember me sort of switching to that narrative and saying like, well, maybe you’re not sensitive to fentanyl. So I started to kind of just tell myself a story about my pain, just try to understand — it’s a way of just understanding my experience and thinking, yeah, maybe this is what happened.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The story becomes a way, not only to explain pain, but to cope with it, a way to not only make sense of the pain, but to manage it, to tamp it down, get through it. In this way, the story becomes the medicine that the patients weren’t given.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[SOMBER MUSIC]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women gear up for second, third retrievals. They change their diets. They cut chemicals out of their home. They read the books the nurses recommend, or they get ready for embryo transfers. They make reservations at a hotel in town so that they won’t have to drive home over a bumpy road.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Despite these efforts, some of the women miscarry. One woman wakes up about 10 days after her embryo transfer with some spotting. “Don’t think anything of that yet,” a nurse reassures her. But the pregnancy test comes back negative. “When do you think you might want to get started again,” her doctor asks her at a virtual follow-up appointment. “I’m not ready,” the patient says. She closes the telehealth, and that’s the last time she talks to the doctor. She never goes back to that clinic. She stops fertility treatment and doesn’t know when or if she will ever resume it. She never wants to go through an egg retrieval again.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[SOMBER MUSIC]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Fertility treatment doesn’t always result in a baby. It’s not just giving yourself shots that’s hard. It’s the cycle of hope and loss. It just clobbers you. And the longer you stay in it, the more the drugs mess with your head.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“It’s called the ‘Clomid Crazies’ for a reason,” one of the women tells me, “and the money, always the money.” If your insurance covers this, it probably only covers a few cycles. There’s so much pressure on each one. Once you have to pay out of pocket, you’re talking maybe $15K for one cycle. And that’s the low end.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Some of the women are keeping their treatment secret. One of them can’t even tell her own mother. “It’s hard. It’s hard to begin with, even without this extra layer that’s been added on to this now — the pain, and the fear of more of it.”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The first time I went in clueless, thinking you’re not going to feel a thing. So I think the second time, I had a lot more anxiety.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Laura doesn’t get as many eggs as she hoped for the first time around. It’s urgent that she start cancer treatment and the doctors accelerate her cycle. Her second retrieval is scheduled for barely more than two weeks after her first. That morning, Laura’s mother drives her to the clinic and sits in the waiting room while Laura goes back for the procedure.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I was shocked. I was shocked again that it was the same situation. I’m thrusting my hips and telling these — like, wide awake speaking to them. And I was just like, I feel everything you’re doing. And that was when I — I remember actually saying to them, I could drive myself home right now. I’m that alert.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the recovery room, Laura gets her phone back. And just like last time, texts her sister-in-law. Then she sees her mom. She tells them both how much pain she’s in.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So my sister-in-law right away was like, oh my god, I cannot believe you felt that again. But my mom, she just felt — it’s hard, because she had seen me go through so much as it was with the cancer. Any mother who has to live watching their daughter go through that — and then for me to tell her, this was supposed to be a special moment because we’re preserving my fertility and — I’m sorry — and for her to see that, it hurts her to see me in pain. You know?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, and I was just like, well, thank god. I think this was the last time I had to do that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What did the two of you do like the rest of that day? Did she drive you home?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, she drove me home and she stayed with me, because she had already been staying with me a lot during the day after my surgeries because I couldn’t even — at that point, I still wasn’t allowed to lift more than 5 pounds because I was still recovering from the other surgeries. So yeah, she was with me and made me lunch and comforted me. We were like, OK, so now we just go back to waiting and hoping we get a good number.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I just moved on from it, because I faced many more surgeries that year as well. So I kind of had to just switch back into survival mode. Like, OK, now we just battle the next thing.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the other surgeries you had, cancer-related surgeries, like, what were your experiences of pain like?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s actually interesting that you bring that up, because when I did have my double mastectomy, I was hospitalized — I think I was in for a day or two days. And strangely enough, the night nurse forgot to give me morphine. So I actually was awake and in pain the entire night. And I have a gluten allergy, so they couldn’t feed me anything because the kitchen was closed. So I spent the entire night like vomiting because they couldn’t — they were trying to give me like Percocets or something.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so I know what pain feels like. And the next morning, the doctor goes, I don’t understand why she didn’t give it to you. It was in the order. And I had a really young nurse, whatever. This is completely unrelated to that. But you know, I know what pain feels like. I’ve been through it.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then when I was hospitalized at Christmas, that’s funny that you bring that up, because my sister-in-law actually had pointed out. She goes, do you remember when you kept telling me were immune to fentanyl? She goes, when I did a search on my phone — I guess you can — she’s really savvy. You can type in like, “fentanyl” in text messages, and it’ll bring up every conversation — she goes, I actually found one from when you were hospitalized at Christmas saying that you were on fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I guess she had sent me a picture of her Christmas tree. And I had made a comment like, oh my god, did your house burn down? And she was like, what are you talking about? And I said, I don’t know. The nurse just gave me fentanyl. And so she goes, look, Laura, so it does work on.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh Wow.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, and this was a month prior. And that didn’t even dawn on me. Like, oh my god. But when it came time for the other thing, I was just like, oh, it must not work on me, because I just felt like nobody had heard what I was saying, so it just didn’t exist. It was in my head, you know?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So yeah, so I don’t know. Was I foolish, because I didn’t like dispute it more? Maybe not. I don’t know. But like, I believe them. You trust them.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Months pass. Some of the women get pregnant. Others are still trying. Some of them are still showing up at that clinic for blood draws when they open their mailboxes in December 2020.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Christmas was on a Friday of 2020. And the mail arrived on Thursday. It was Christmas Eve, and I was busy. And I just thought, I’m not going to go get the mail today. And I waited until Monday the 28th. And it was a nice day. I went outside. I got the mail. And you know, I got this letter.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I got this letter in the mail. It’s nothing fancy. It’s a Yale envelope. I’m assuming it’s a bill. The bills never stop coming with IVF.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You get so much when you work at Yale, also, you just get like Yale-emblazoned mail. And so you’re like, oh, OK, whatever. It was like this thin thing. And I was like, oh, they changed locations or something. It’s like, this is not important.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And instead of just setting it aside, I happened to open it. And I was furious.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And it says, “Dear Kathleen Garrison, I’m writing to you in my role as director of Yale Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility to let that we have learned of an event that may have involved your care.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, that they’ve become aware that the nurse was switching out the fentanyl with the saline.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">“A few weeks ago, we learned that on multiple occasions, a Yale fertility center nurse replaced fentanyl, a routinely used narcotic medication, with a normal salt solution, saline, in some medication vials. As a result, some patients may have received saline instead of the intended narcotic medication during their procedures.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">While there’s no reason to believe that this event has had any negative effect on your health or the outcome of the care that you received, we believe that you should be informed.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">They make the stupid comment in the letter that there was no harm done from this happening. And I don’t know if Hall was home or I called her, and I was like, bullshit. No harm done?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Don’t send me a letter and tell me that we’re confident no one’s outcomes were affected by this. I know my outcomes were affected by this. I know what I experienced and went through.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But Yale wasn’t going to help me. They didn’t think there was harm. They didn’t think it was a problem. It was the most — honestly, I think it was one of the most disrespectful ways they probably could have notified any of us that it had happened, that oh, we had this little breach and you’re fine, no biggie. Go about your day.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Again, no one reached out to talk with us or to see what we experienced as patients. My only communication about it was through the letter, and that’s still to this day.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And yet, in addition to fury, there’s also vindication. When they learn the news, however they learn it, the women text their twin sister, or run inside to their husband, or weep in their kitchen.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was mind blowing. I immediately called my mother. I immediately called my sister-in-law. And I’m like, oh, like, I don’t know. Something, it just hit. Like, it all makes sense now.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And it was like, OK, it all makes sense. It was almost a relief — a relief to know like, I’m not crazy. There’s nothing wrong with my body. I don’t have something like, blocking opioids or where my body is wrong and doesn’t react to medicine.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But it also shows how much they ignored my pleas for help and saying like, nobody believed me. So in a sense, it was like relief, just knowing that what I felt was real.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But there’s more. The letter continues.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">“The law enforcement investigation and our own review have found no reason to believe that you were exposed to an infection due to this event. Even so, we can appreciate that you may want further reassurance. And if you wish, we will arrange for you to be tested for a group of bloodborne infections at no charge.” And I was like, what the fuck?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, those words, not alarm, but “perplexed” and “surprised” came back to me, right? And you just feel like, so completely let down by this institution that’s supposed to make you feel safe, and I mean, keep you safe, right, an institution that’s supposed to keep you safe. That was gone.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But maybe the most remarkable thing about the letter is the way it addresses pain. It seems to be saying, you did not feel what you felt.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">“I also want to assure you that the fertility center routinely uses a combination of pain medications during procedures. We closely monitor patients for signs of discomfort during every procedure and adjust medications or add medications as needed. In this way, we can be confident that our patients stay comfortable, even if one medication is not working.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, I don’t believe that accurately describes my experience. And then it goes on to say, if you have any questions or want a blood test, here’s who you can call.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women put the letter on the counter in shock. For months they’ve been constructing their own stories about what happened to them. Now they have Yale’s story, which is that this is barely a story at all. The questions the patients have been asking all along have a new focus.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, as soon as I received that letter, it’s like, how does this happen? And how does it happen at Yale, a hospital system with such a great reputation? And how did it happen for so long? So many things had to go wrong for this to happen as long as it did. How does an entire facility let this happen? Who trained them? Who thought that this was OK?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I get sent home with — I get packages in the mail with sharp needle containers and strict instructions and alcohol swabs and this crazy protocol that I’m expected to do at home. They make you double check things. Are there puncture marks? Did I really spend more time following directions at home for hormone shots? Like, where were they?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think my immediate reaction was, you know what? How could this happen at Yale? Like, why wasn’t there a better system in place to prevent it or detect it when it was happening and respond? Why wasn’t our pain listened to?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women wonder about the system that failed them. But there’s something very intimate and human that they’re wondering about too.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We were notified that it was a nurse. We didn’t have the name of the nurse in that original letter. And so it’s sort of racing through your mind like, well, which nurse? Because you build such a strong relationship with these people. And you see them so often, and you trust them, and you know, build a relationship. And so you’re thinking like, well, which nurse could this have been?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then you’re showing up. And OK, who’s not here anymore? Who’s gone? And just trying to figure out who it was.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patients know what happened. They’re about to find out who did it. That’s next.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“The Retrievals” is produced by me and Laura Starecheski. Laura edited the series, with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder. Additional editing by Miki Meek, Katie Mingle, and Ira Glass. Research and fact checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love. Music supervision, sound design, and mixing by Phoebe Wang, with production help from Michelle Navarro.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Original music by Carla Pallone and music mixing by Thomas Poli. Inde Chubu is a supervising producer for Serial Productions. At “The New York Times,” our standards editor, Susan Wessling, legal review by Dana Greene, art direction from Pablo Delcan, producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelley Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni. Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Special thanks to Dr. Marcelle Cedars, Calvin Hawker, Lisa Schuman, Kylie Silver, and Dr. Maggie Smith. The” Retrievals” is a production of Serial Productions and “The New York Times.”</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"AudioObject","@id":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/fca3d57f-db30-4ef5-84e1-e16d0a29f024/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=fca3d57f-db30-4ef5-84e1-e16d0a29f024&nocache","description":"","name":"Episode 1: The Patients","contentUrl":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/fca3d57f-db30-4ef5-84e1-e16d0a29f024/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=fca3d57f-db30-4ef5-84e1-e16d0a29f024&nocache","uploadDate":"2023-06-29T10:00:03.000Z","duration":"PT3.391S"}</script></div></div></figure></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-2"><div class="css-53u6y8"><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">Patients at a fertility clinic experience excruciating, unexpected pain. For months the reason for that pain remains hidden. Then they get a letter from the clinic.</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="AudioBlock-5"><figure class="margins-h css-1nhp71k"><figcaption class="css-5soref"><div class="audioFigureHeading"><h3 class="css-71086k">Episode 2: The Nurse</h3></div></figcaption><div class="css-1ijhom3"><div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabindex="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="white" fill-opacity="0.9"></circle><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-title" role="region"><header class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-title">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to The Retrievals</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-testid="transcript-playback-controls"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabindex="99" type="button" class="css-1eut9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--color-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><title>bars</title><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1ruvd04" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00/33:03</div><div class="css-og85jy">-33:03</div></div></div></div></header><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxywau"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-8p0vwh">Episode 2: The Nurse</h2></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">At first, the nurse uses the fentanyl at work. She takes vials from storage and injects herself in the bathroom. Then, she starts taking the vials home — a 30-minute drive to a Connecticut town in a more rural part of the state.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is where she’s raising her children, three of them. It’s a wealthy town, but not hedge-fund wealth. Kids go to public school and play little league. For a while, the nurse taught catechism at the church.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The nurse is divorced from her children’s father, who, according to court documents, is a volatile presence in their lives. The tooth fairy will be coming a lot, because I’m going to knock your teeth out, and maybe the ambulance will have to come, because your jawbones will break, is an example of the kind of thing the nurse claims the father has said.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">According to a police report, the father denies making this and all such threatening statements. But the children have said they are scared of him. The nurse is scared when they are with him.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The nurse sees herself as the stable parent. That is who she needs to be. But now, she is doing this thing, this thing that she needs. In fact, she needs it to remain stable.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sometimes she tries to stop, but she can’t. She can go for a couple of days without using. But as the withdrawal symptoms build, she starts again.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">What she does is she removes the fentanyl from the vial with a syringe, and then replaces it with saline, one clear liquid with another. No one can see. She does this uncountable times, and she returns an uncountable number of these vials that say they contain fentanyl, but actually contain saline, to the stock of drugs at work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then, one day, October 31, 2020, an anesthesiologist notices that a cap comes off a vial too easily. The loose cap is discovered on a Friday, and the following Wednesday, the nurse is questioned. She denies taking the fentanyl, but when the results of her drug test come back positive, the nurse confesses. She is terminated.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In January 2021, law enforcement authorities send out a letter to approximately 200 patients at the Yale clinic, telling them they are, quote, “a potential victim in a federal criminal case.” How old-fashioned that news keeps arriving in the mail.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But unlike the letter from Yale, this letter demands to be noticed. It’s from the Department of Justice. And this letter says the name of the nurse. The name of the nurse is Donna.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna was the person handling all the phone calls. Donna was the person ordering your meds. Donna was the person you called when you were in pain. Donna was — you know, it was all Donna. In fact, I had the number saved in my phone as Donna REI. OK?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna was not every patient’s point person at the clinic, but for a time, she had been Leah’s. The day Leah got the envelope from the Department of Justice, she brought it into her kitchen.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I remember opening it up. It was like one page. And I saw her name, and I, like — I mean, I just, like, lost it. I was, like, weeping.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Leah knew Donna. But now that the nurse had a name, something was different for even the patients who’d never encountered her. Now, there was a distinct individual behind their pain. Who was she?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patients googled her. One woman’s husband noted that Donna had become a nurse when already in her 40s. What was up with that? Another patient zillowed her house. Someone else looked up whether her town had well water. It did.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Because how could anyone really be sure she’d replaced the fentanyl with saline? And what if she was just refilling the vial from her home tap? Others looked back at my chart messages.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, looking back, I know that I did correspond with Donna. We talked about medications at one point in my chart messages. So I did correspond with her, and she did work with my insurance company to get fentanyl approved for the procedures and, I guess, ordered for the procedures.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">After a pretty intense Google search, I am pretty certain that I met Donna the couple of times I was at the clinic doing the preliminary kind of testing.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patients’ identities had shaped the ways they’d made sense of their pain. Now, their identities were shaping their reactions to the person who caused it. What Angela was looking for had as much to do with her own identity as with Donna’s.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sometimes I have a very hard time connecting with the idea of being a victim, especially in light of my job. So I’m a criminal defense attorney for indigent persons, and there’s always a reason why. Why did they steal this? Why did this assault occur?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Most people aren’t just stealing things because it’s funny. There’s an actual reason behind it. And I wanted desperately, I think, to give her a reason, so that I felt a little bit better.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What would — that’s so interesting. How would knowing or imagining her reason make you feel better?</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When you’re going through, I would assume, most fertility procedures, but with IVF for me, you’re at your most vulnerable. You are physically laying your body on the line, saying, do what you need to do to correct, kind of, the brokenness that is me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so every step of the way, it’s personal, and I’ve blamed myself. And I wanted to make this not personal, that she wasn’t trying to punish me. Whether it was twisted, however it was, I wanted her justification to feel worth it.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna’s justification wasn’t going to be in Google, or whether she justified her actions at all. What was in her heart, how she would explain this, whether she was remorseful or callous — that wasn’t data Angela or any of the other patients were going to be able to find. The patients wanted to know not just who Donna was, but what her story was.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">What was the story Donna would tell about her own pain? How would she answer for what she had done? From Serial Productions and “The New York Times,” I’m Susan Burton, and this is “The Retrievals.” This is Episode 2, “The Nurse.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Department of Justice invited the patients to a video conference to learn more about the case. On a Thursday afternoon in late January, about 50 patients logged on. Katie, the addiction researcher, was among them.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah, I was at home. You know, it was still sort of peak COVID, so I was on my laptop, signing into this call with the Department of Justice. And very quickly, they were, kind of, letting us know, we’re here to explain to you about the criminal case, and what’s sort of at stake, and what your role might be.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">This call isn’t necessarily a for us to get your stories. We will talk to you and — but for this moment, this isn’t the place for us to necessarily tell our stories. But many women really needed to tell their stories, and that was really emotional. You know, I mean, I think people felt — you feel really like you have to get this out.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I just — I heard other women who had nearly verbatim stories to mine, just being in this procedure, realizing in the moment that they were having this procedure sober, and even looking to their nurse and having their nurse say, I’m giving the most I can legally give you, and then getting kind of similar post-procedure false narratives about their pain. So it was just really interesting. I mean, it was devastating to hear that that’s — you know, I was shocked by how many women were on the call and how long this had sort of gone on.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I remember, like, I was like, I thought I would feel better hearing that. I felt worse, actually. You know?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Leah was on the call, too.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, it doesn’t — you’d think that it would make you feel better knowing other people were in pain like you. But you don’t, actually. You feel worse. You feel angrier. You feel more hurt. It’s more sad.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">There was a woman who was talking about how she was screaming out during the surgery, but her voice — you couldn’t hear her voice. But she was like, her — her mouth was open, and Donna’s squeezing her hand, you know. I still can’t get that image out of my head, you know.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna had been in the room during some of the retrievals. She had administered the saline herself. Lynn wasn’t on the call that day, but when she learned this, she was startled.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I just remember thinking, you know, how sick she must be to be able to do that, and then watch the women suffer on the operating tables, knowing the reason why, and just sort of trying to figure that out — how someone could do that. It’s, you know, tough to comprehend.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">These stories raised questions about how Donna had reconciled the patient’s pain or didn’t, how she split that off, how profoundly dissociated she would have needed to have been, how deep in her addiction. In a way, these stories speak to the suffering of both parties. But it is possible to have empathy for addiction, and also find some of the interactions the patients recall chilling, like this exchange that one patient remembers having with Donna after her retrieval.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allison</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And the next thing I remember is waking up in the recovery room. And I was in quite a bit of pain, a lot more pain than I ever would have expected for an egg retrieval. And Donna was my nurse, and I remember asking her if it’s normal to be in that much pain. And she looked at me and said, yes.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s almost like watching a kind of, like, horror reel, where women are — all of a sudden, everyone’s kind of like, oh, yeah, I was worried. Oh, it was like — it was like kind of being bombarded by all these women who were told to shut the fuck up while they were experiencing something that they knew was wrong.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That was what became alarmingly clear. That became alarmingly clear to me. People had complained that something was up with the fentanyl. People had complained about Donna. People had complained about the treatment by the physicians and the nurses. And you know, at a certain point, like, not everybody’s crazy.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The people from the Department of Justice tell the patients where things are with Donna’s case. Some of the patients want to know about Yale. Shouldn’t Yale be responsible?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But that’s a different question. That will be a different case, and not one the Department of Justice will handle. Right now, they’re working on a plea deal with Donna, which means there will likely not be a trial, though there will be a sentencing hearing that the patients can attend. It’s possible Donna will be sent to prison. Leah isn’t sure how she feels about this.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I had to think long and hard as a person, again, who teaches work on injustice, incarceration, trauma, et cetera, et cetera. I had to think about what it meant for me, as someone who’d been injured, victimized, hurt, abused, to then — what I needed — what I wanted the outcome to be for someone who had inflicted that on me and other people.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, there’s this whole abolition movement going on. So you have to think, like, well, what do I — do I want — do I want to see this person in jail? What do I want — what do I want to have happen to Yale? What is the right outcome?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">For months after that call, Leah would continue to wrestle with questions about the right outcome. For Katie, the addiction researcher, at least part of the right outcome was already clear.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">During the call about the criminal case, my immediate take was more about the system, you know, Yale’s responsibility, and what kind of system was in place or not in place that allowed this to happen. Why were we ignored when we were reporting pain — so many of us over so much time?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I wanted, at that time — and I still want to be really careful and sensitive to the other people who are pursuing pregnancy, who were rightfully very upset with the nurse. But for me, as someone who studies addiction and works with individuals with addiction, it was more important to me that the nurse got substance use treatment. I don’t really believe in prison for drug crimes. I believe in substance use treatment. That was my immediate reaction. And I think that’s very much founded in my research.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Katie uses brain imaging to explore how pathways in the brain are altered by addiction and how people living with addiction have the power to rewire those pathways to change the way they think and behave. The patients wanted to know what was going on in Donna’s head. Katie had a picture of that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Katie’s identity offered her clarity about how the criminal justice system should treat Donna. And on that call, she learned that her perspective could be taken into account. The patients were told that they could submit victim impact letters to the judge. Katie got to work on hers almost immediately.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, I was careful in writing the letter. You know, I say to you, like, I don’t really believe in prison for drug crimes. You know, I was chatting with my Yale Law professor friend whose house I stayed at after this egg retrieval, getting his advice on writing this letter. You know, how can I write a letter to a judge that doesn’t minimize my experience, but that — he mentioned, you can’t tell a judge that you don’t believe in prison for drug crimes, because they do.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You know, what you can do is explain, based on your expertise and what you study and research, like, that you believe in substance use treatment and your preference for that. So yeah, I can read you this letter.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s not that Katie thought that addiction absolved Donna of responsibility for her actions. She thought that Donna had a great deal of personal responsibility. Katie’s argument is about what we do with that in the criminal justice system, where research shows that substance use treatment leads to better outcomes than incarceration. Katie finished her letter and sent it off.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">“And because of this, I ask for leniency in her sentencing, based on my understanding of addiction as a neuroscientist and addiction researcher. Thank you. Kathleen Garrison.”</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I want to read now from another letter to the judge. “Dear Judge Hall, I’m respectfully writing to Your Honor in advance of my sentencing hearing. In this letter, I’m hoping to explain to you what I have done that brings me before the court, the circumstances surrounding my actions, and to express the remorse that I feel for the crime that I have committed.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is Donna, of course. The letter is a few pages long, and I’ll say more about it. But I’m stopping here to say that Donna has not responded to my many requests to speak with her. I’ve also not spoken at length with anyone who loves her or is close to her or who knows her outside of the clinic, also not for lack of trying.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’ve thought carefully about how to tell Donna’s story without her participation. Her case generated many documents that have become part of the public record, documents that include very personal information. I’m choosing to tell a story that includes some of these details. Who Donna is and what she was dealing with when she came to the clinic matter, especially because by her own telling, what she was dealing with was the reason she did what she did.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna herself told a story about what happened, to investigators, to friends and family. Her friends and family, in turn, told their own stories. I’m telling you about these stories, about how Donna and the people in her life explain these events.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Some of what I know about Donna comes from a sentencing memorandum prepared by Donna’s public defender. The memo includes more than 40 letters from friends and family, beginning with one from Donna’s parents, and ending with testimonials from people Donna has met in recovery. The sentencing memo was both an argument to keep Donna out of prison and an intimate look into her life.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here is how the memo lays that life out. Donna was born in 1971 and grew up in New York State, in a place kind of like the one she lives now — a comfortable town, but not a fancy one. Three siblings, lots of cousins, Catholic Church.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She went to a state school for college and waitressed when she was home on break. She didn’t get her nursing license until she was in her 40s, and by then, her life was complicated. She had three children — the oldest two twins — and she was in and out of family court with her ex-husband, their father, over custody and visitation.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">There was DCF involvement, a finding of emotional neglect against the father. Donna asked the court for protective orders. For her, it was expensive and intensely stressful.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna is described in the letters as a devoted mother and a good friend, as generous, tenacious, and trusted. Many of the letter-writers seem to be working to reconcile their astonishment at what Donna has done with the integrity of the person they know. One woman read an article about it. And the first time she read the article, she thought Donna was the one who caught the nurse stealing the drugs.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Most of the letters describe this kind of initial shock, and then a quick move to support. Thus, the letters where tension is allowed to exist stand out. The letter from Donna’s parents is one that acknowledges complexity.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“We saw our daughter starting to break, but she always said she would be fine. Turns out, she was not fine. It was with great sadness that we read her confession. Our sadness turned to disbelief and anger.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">We are now at the point of broken hearts. How could she make the choices she made?”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes, how could she? This is a question the letters are trying to answer.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And the explanation they offer, the central story they tell, has to do with Donna’s ex-husband. As one friend sums it up, “I’ve done a lot of thinking about what led Donna to do what she did. And I believe her main problem, and what directly led to her actions in this case, is her relationship with her ex-husband.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The ex-husband’s perspective is not represented. I contacted him through his lawyer. He did not respond.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">There are lots of examples of the ex-husband’s behavior in the court record. The one I’ll offer here is not especially shocking. It comes from a letter written by the only person who says she knows Donna’s ex well.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She says that Donna didn’t ask her to write this letter, that she saw Donna sitting alone in her car at soccer, and she approached her. This writer characterizes Donna’s ex’s behavior as aggressive and often humiliating. She says you would see Donna and her ex at, quote, “opposite ends of the soccer field, each trying to be there for their children. She often keeps one eye on him, waiting for the next outburst,” unquote.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The mother who was always alert for an explosion — that kind of vigilance, these letters seem to be saying, that kind of vigilance can wreck you.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So in the story told by the letters, this chronic stress builds and builds for Donna, until she reaches what many of the writers refer to as a breaking point. What exactly is that breaking point? That is a part of the story Donna writes herself. That’s coming up, when Episode 2 of “The Retrievals” continues.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The way Donna explains it in her letter, she started taking the fentanyl during COVID. She tells the story about her ex-husband taking the kids for visitation in March 2020. Scary time, right? Everybody newly shut inside their houses, everything closing down.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna’s ex has been sick — a stomach bug, he calls it — and has postponed a scheduled visit. The night the kids finally go over to their father’s, it seems like he’s still sick. They call her, and they’re like, Dad is coughing a lot, and he’s shivering under three blankets on the couch.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And he said it’s hard to breathe and it hurts to breathe. He claims that he’s negative for COVID, but he winds up in the hospital for over a month. Donna is frightened for her children and is furious at her ex for knowingly exposing them to his illness, rather than canceling the visit as a precaution.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">After he is home and recuperated, he wants his regular visitation with the kids, but Donna wants proof that he’s no longer contagious. When she refuses to let him see the children, he takes her to family court, demanding sole custody. This is entry number 205 in their docket. And for Donna, it is a tipping point.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“I was overwhelmed by the sense that I would never be free,” she writes, “that I would have to take more time off of work, find more money to pay the lawyer, and engage in yet more litigation.” She continues, “I suddenly couldn’t see or think straight anymore.” She says that it was around this time that she resorted to taking fentanyl at work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna says that a few years earlier, she had a prescription for pain in her feet. “During the course of time that I had the prescription, I did end up taking more than prescribed as a coping mechanism. I turned to fentanyl, because I knew from prior experience with narcotics that it would help me to cope emotionally and mentally with what was going on in my life.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It helped quiet and keep my mind calm. In those moments, it’s what I felt I needed to do to endure and hold it together for my children. How this makes any sense as difficult to convey.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna is far from the only medical professional to have a substance use disorder. That part is not unusual. I asked a former coworker of Donna’s what might have happened if Donna had told someone at the clinic that she was addicted to fentanyl and that she needed help.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“I don’t think medicine tolerates that,” the former coworker said, “even though we say that we do. I think she’d have lost her job.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The people I talked to who worked at the clinic with Donna characterized her in different ways. Donna was not touchy-feely. Donna was efficient. Her presence was authoritative, no nonsense.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna was attentive. She seemed like she genuinely cared. There were also more negative impressions. Donna was cold, not empathetic. She was like, these patients complain so much.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna’s former coworkers knew that she was contending with a lot at home. When her ex was in the hospital, all the nurses hoped he would die, one person said.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is the exchange that I found most telling.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I asked one former coworker, who was Donna close to? The person thought for a moment. “I don’t think Donna was close to anyone,” they said, “but I think some of the nurses felt close to her.”</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Yale Fertility Center is dedicated to helping couples reach their dream of having a family, with a team of competent and compassionate professionals.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">A promotional video for the Yale Fertility Center shows Donna at the clinic, sturdy, brunette, a white turtleneck under her scrubs. She looks a little bit like Joan Cusack. She’s in a room with a patient, and the patient has her sleeve rolled up. And Donna is preparing to draw blood.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">By helping you navigate the technological, psychological, and physical needs of the IVF process, you will gain perspective, understand your options, and feel confident —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In her letter to the judge, Donna describes feeling trapped and stuck. She brings up an image of spinning around in a cage, unable to get out. When I see Donna in this video, outwardly capable, I wonder about what she felt inside, if she felt trapped.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Everybody saw what was going on with her ex-husband, but nobody saw that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Nobody seems to see what’s really going on with Donna until that loose cap. Remember, the loose cap is discovered on a Friday. On Sunday or Monday, it’s kind of unclear. But on Sunday or Monday, Donna comes to work with 175 used vials of fentanyl, meaning 175 vials from which she has extracted fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She’s been keeping these vials at her house. She’d been planning to eventually reintroduce them into the supply at the clinic, but now, her plans have changed. That evening at work, she goes out to her car to get clothes.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She walks out to the parking lot, and from her car, gets a plastic grocery bag, and then she brings the bag inside and disposes of the 175 vials and two sharps containers. It’s last-ditch behavior, right? It’s something you do when you are frantic, panicked, and the jig is up. It also seems like something you do when maybe you want to be caught, when maybe you want to be seen.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">A little more than two weeks later, Donna will confess to a team of federal and state investigators. She will do so without a lawyer present. She will tell them how she did it, how she would puncture the septum of the vial up to four times a day to extract fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She will say she always used a clean needle to put the saline in. She will say that she’s been doing this for five months. She will estimate that during this time, she has tampered with 75 percent of the fentanyl given to patients at the clinic.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She will say that some of the vials had all saline and that some were a mix. She will tell the investigators about her money problems and about her protective orders against her ex-husband. She will tell them about the stress in her life. She will tell them that her children don’t know. And at the end of the interview, she will tell the investigators that talking to them has been the best thing for her and that she feels much better.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna’s sentencing hearing is scheduled for a Tuesday morning in May. It’s going to be hybrid. You can attend on Zoom or in person. Most patients who decide to go will attend on Zoom.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s spring 2021 of the pandemic. Vaccines are still new. It doesn’t feel like a whole new world yet, but Leah decides she will go in person.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I kind of needed to see her. I was fascinated with how she was going to fashion herself in this whole — in the theater. Right? So I was fascinated by that. And also, I was — again, I’m like, I was really, really angry. I wanted to see if she was upset. I wanted to see if she was —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I wanted to see if she was going to cry.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But Leah’s still ambivalent about what she wants to happen to Donna.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I heard 51 to 63 months, right? And I had to do the math in my head. OK, 51. And I think they had reduced, because she was admitting to being guilty. The time that she could potentially be sentenced was reduced.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember already being like —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">[inhales sharply]</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t know how I feel about that. I don’t want people to go to prison. But at the same time, well, what do we want to have happen?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What happens to Donna, and whose pain matters more? That’s next on “The Retrievals.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“The Retrievals” is produced by me and Laura Starcheski. Laura edited the series, with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder, additional editing by Katie Mingle and Ira Glass, research and fact-checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love, music supervision, sound design, and mixing by Phoebe Wang, with production help from Michelle Navarro, original music by Carla Pallone and music mixing by Tomas Poli.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer for Serial Productions. At “The New York Times,” our standards editor is Susan Wessling, legal review by Dana Green, art direction from Pablo Delcan, producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelly Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni. Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor. Special thanks to Pierre Cattoni. “The Retrievals” is a production of Serial Productions and “The New York Times.”</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"AudioObject","@id":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/cb204f19-81bf-4b24-b146-55b9768be36e/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=cb204f19-81bf-4b24-b146-55b9768be36e&nocache","description":"","name":"Episode 2: The Nurse","contentUrl":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/cb204f19-81bf-4b24-b146-55b9768be36e/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=cb204f19-81bf-4b24-b146-55b9768be36e&nocache","uploadDate":"2023-07-05T10:57:45.000Z","duration":"PT1.983S"}</script></div></div></figure></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-3"><div class="css-53u6y8"><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">The patients know what happened to them. Now they learn who did it. The story of the nurse whose own pain was also unseen.</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="Dropzone-7"></div><div data-testid="AudioBlock-8"><figure class="margins-h css-1nhp71k"><figcaption class="css-5soref"><div class="audioFigureHeading"><h3 class="css-71086k">Episode 3: The Sentence</h3></div></figcaption><div class="css-1ijhom3"><div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabindex="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="white" fill-opacity="0.9"></circle><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-title" role="region"><header class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-title">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to The Retrievals</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-testid="transcript-playback-controls"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabindex="99" type="button" class="css-1eut9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--color-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><title>bars</title><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1ruvd04" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00/46:39</div><div class="css-og85jy">-46:39</div></div></div></div></header><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxywau"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-8p0vwh">Episode 3: The Sentence</h2></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Allicia never expected to wind up in a fertility clinic because she never thought she’d want to have children. She grew up in Jamaica with a lot of responsibilities for her siblings.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I am one of five the second of said five. But I’m the first girl. And in my culture, you are required to help your mommy out. Like, you don’t have a say so in it.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And so bottles were done by me. Laundry was done by me since I was nine years old. And I hated every last part of it. So I always told myself when I got older, I didn’t want kids. And the sad part about that is I think the tongue is so — it’s powerful. So you got to be very careful with what you say.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What do you mean?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think because of — I’m having chills. Because all my life I’ve said I didn’t want kids that I spoke that into existence. Now, for a lot of people, that doesn’t — it’s not real to them. For me, it is real.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So that’s why I mean when I say the tongue is powerful because I kept telling myself that I didn’t want children. And I feel whoever I pray to listen to me. And then when I wanted children, I was in a position where my only way of having kids was via IVF.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Allicia was in her 20s when she decided she wanted to have children. She was in a relationship, then with the man who would become her husband — someone she met when she moved to the US. She tried to get pregnant, and nothing was happening. And eventually she learned that her fallopian tubes were blocked.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Did you — at that moment when you were finding out that your tubes were blocked, that there was an issue with your tubes, is that the thought you had then? Like, I sort of spoke this into existence or I willed it?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes, definitely. I told myself that. I blamed myself. And that’s another thing, too, is I’ve always blamed myself after that.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">On the morning of Donna’s sentencing hearing, Allicia gets ready to watch from home. She’s going to watch on Zoom because she had thyroid surgery two days ago, and she isn’t up for leaving the house. And before the hearing begins, I’m going to take a second to tell you about her because Allicia starts out sympathetic to Donna.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I felt that whatever it is that she was going through, it clouded her judgment. And she had a lapse in judgment. And if she has a mental issue, I feel like she deserves a second chance.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But during the hearing, Allicia will learn something about Donna that will test the limits of her compassion and change the way she thinks about Donna’s culpability. The patients are still reckoning with what the pain Donna inflicted has cost them. Now a court will determine what it should cost her.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">From “Serial Productions” and “The New York Times,” I’m Susan Burton, and this is “The Retrievals.” This is episode three, “The Sentence.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">After Allicia found out her tubes were blocked, she was referred to the Yale clinic. Her treatment there had barely started when it was interrupted by the pandemic. The clinic closed down for a while for most procedures. Her doctor invited her to join a Zoom support group of other patients. And she liked him so much that she said yes, even though that was the kind of thing she wouldn’t usually say yes to.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She’s not a joiner. And hardly anyone knew she was doing IVF. That’s part of why she asked me to call her Allicia, which is her middle name.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I was hesitant, like I said, because I’m very private when it comes to stuff like. This but then it was everybody who was going through stuff like this. And it was a little bit weird that I was the only Black girl in it, but then I’m in Connecticut. So it’s not like I’m in New York.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So there’s more Caucasian people around than there is Black people. So I wanted to see the weeks going by to see if others were joined who looked like me, but it never happened. So I am very vocal. So I didn’t want to be the vocal person in that group.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then I found this girl who was way more vocal than me, and I was like, yes. So I got comfortable. So yeah, that was it. It was like, OK, I don’t want to talk to strangers about my life, but they’re going through the same thing. Who better to talk to than these people? Yeah.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The clinic Zoom group didn’t last long in early in the pandemic thing. But before it shut down, Allicia and a few others exchanged contact info so that they could keep meeting on their own.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women grew close to one another. They shared stories, tips, information, including information about the egg retrieval. The ones who’d gone through it told the others forget about what the clinic tells you. This is going to hurt.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So in my head, I felt like that was how it was supposed to be because even before I went to do my retrieval, they were prepping me on what I’m going to feel and how I’m going to feel, you get what I’m saying? So in my head, all that pain and all of that was a part of the procedure.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Other patients experience their treatments at Yale in isolation. They went into the retrieval expecting to feel nothing and then felt excruciating pain. This group of patients went in expecting it to be awful. They normalized the pain for one another. So on the day of Allicia’s retrieval, she wasn’t surprised by what she felt.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But like I said, I wasn’t sweating it because I was told by the girls in the group to be prepared for that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Wow. And so tell me about what you felt then. Describe the pain to me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like pressure. Pressure and you’re bleeding a little bit, too. So it’s like — first of all, I don’t know what cramps are. I’ve never had them, knock on wood. So for me, I couldn’t even tell you that was cramping or anything like that because I never cramped prior.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Wow.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah. People always say that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHS]:</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I have real — I know.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It just had never occurred to me that it was possible to not have cramps.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m telling you, I feel like my body just listened to me and was not in a position to be making kids. I’m just assuming that’s what it is.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Her body didn’t have cramps because her body wasn’t meant to make babies, and she had only herself to blame for that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">After Allicia had her egg retrieval, she reported her pain to her doctor.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So he asked about my experience — how it was and stuff like that. My retrieval was done by him. And I told him how painful it was. And I was expecting it because my girls got me prepared for it and stuff like that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And like I said, I wasn’t — I’m the type of person that I don’t exaggerate. So I wasn’t like, oh my god, I was dying. So I just made it clear that it was very painful or whatever. So we spoke on that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What was his reaction?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think he had a look on his face of concern. I don’t know what he did behind the scenes, but you would only be doing something if you’re privy to the fact of what it is that we’re going through. If you have never been through it, you hear pain. And pain can be anything, you get what I’m saying? I’m assuming you’re going to expect it to be a little bit painful.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">After that retrieval, Allicia had an embryo transfer and became pregnant. But one morning she woke up and she was bleeding. I knew she was no longer living, Allicia said. I just felt it. An ultrasound confirmed the worst. Allicia was 17 weeks and five days pregnant. At the hospital, they told her that she could have surgery or she could push.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I gave birth to my baby. I chose to bring her into this world So i could see her because she was dead inside me. And I could have done surgery, but the opportunity for me to see her was low.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So like they told me, they could break her apart trying to get her out. And I said, no. So they’re going through all of that. To go through all of that, all the shots, everything else, all of that to end up not even being able to bring that child into this world is a lot. To bring her into this world, but she’s dead is a lot.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When Allicia got the letter from Yale, she put it aside. It didn’t totally kick in for her that she was a victim until a couple of months later when she got a breaking news alert on her phone. “Yale nurse swapped fentanyl with saline.” Allicia didn’t think she’d ever met Donna.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Has you ever interacted with her at the clinic?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t think so. Even if I did, I don’t remember her. I am not the friendliest person. So if I’m there on business, I’m doing business and then I’m leaving.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The girls in the group were angry at Donna. Allicia was, too. But what she felt was complicated. She’s a manager at a forensic hospital, a psychiatric hospital for patients who’ve been charged with crimes, but in some cases found not to be responsible for what they’ve done.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In her job there, she’s worked with a lot of patients with addiction. And she told me that she saw Donna as a patient. Saw her more that way than as her health care provider.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So I was the only person supporting this lady because of the work that I do. And I genuinely — I really and truly have my heart in the job that I do working with people with mental illness. And an addiction isn’t seen as that, but it is. So I felt for her.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Now, on the morning of the hearing, Allicia stares into her screen, waiting for the proceedings to start.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In downtown New Haven, Leah arrives in the courtroom, still not sure what she wants but knowing she needs to be here to witness this. She sees Donna upfront.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Her parents were there. They sat, I think, in the third row. I sat in the back row on the other side. I sat on the prosecution side. And her parents were there. A friend was there. I think that’s about it for her.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patients watching the hearing on Zoom see that the room is almost empty. Donna and her lawyer are at a table up front. Donna is wearing a peach-colored top and a black mask.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Many people on Zoom turn off their cameras, but some don’t. Donna’s therapist is on there. An aunt of Donna’s from Long Island has logged on multiple times. One of her squares shows her ceiling fan. And then the hearing starts.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Please be seated everyone, the judge says. Diane, you need to put your volume down just a little. Thanks. No worries.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The judge is Judge Janet Hall, 72 years old, graduate of Mount Holyoke College, appointed to the bench in 1997 by President Bill Clinton, mother of three children, just like Donna. Obviously, I have the obligation of imposing a sentence on you, Judge Hall says. Basically, obviously, I’ve read a lot, but I haven’t made a decision.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And she really hasn’t. What will happen over the course of the hearing is that she will decide in real time. The judge will think out loud. She will grapple with what she will characterize as an unusually difficult case.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The task before her is a narrow one to determine a sentence. But in executing that task, she will engage some of the big questions at the heart of this story. Donna’s public defender stands. Her name is Allison Near, 46 years old, mother of two daughters, married to a man who was a professor of ecology at Yale. Neither she nor the judge agreed to speak with me for this story.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Attorney Near says she’s been in contact with Donna almost every day since they met in December. And that as she’s tried to help Donna, quote, “kind of unpack the events from June through October of 2020. I’ve learned so much about her. And I’ve been moved and impressed by her insight into what went awry.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then Attorney Near begins to make her argument. Again, this isn’t a trial. Donna has entered a guilty plea. This is a sentencing hearing. The thing being decided today is not Donna’s guilt or innocence — just the terms of her sentence.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna faces a maximum sentence of just over five years in prison. Attorney Near is here to argue that down to as little as possible. The thrust of her argument is Donna’s, quote, “extraordinary family circumstances.” That phrase has legal weight. The judge is obligated to consider Donna’s family circumstances.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Attorney near points out that if Donna is sent to prison, her ex-husband will almost certainly get custody. The judge must consider whether this is a good or even safe outcome for Donna’s children.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In advance of the hearing, the judge has reviewed many documents, like the character reference letters from Donna’s family and friends, and the police reports that contain accounts of her ex-husband’s behavior. The judge has a lot of discretion to sentence below the guideline of five years if she decides that Donna’s family situation warrants it.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Attorney Near finishes her opening remarks and calls a witness, a friend of Donna’s who says she fears for the safety of Donna’s children if Donna’s ex-husband gets custody, and that Donna’s children need her. When the friend is done, the judge begins to wrestle with her first big question of the morning — one about trust.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The judge says, quote, “it is just — it is a real serious offense. It is such a breach of trust. Her relationship with the patients, the numbers who were impacted, the level of pain I can only imagine. I don’t have a lot of familiarity with the procedure, but I’ve spoken to women who’ve gone through it. It is physically and psychologically difficult to begin with. Then you want to layer it on top that you do it without pain management. It isn’t just the pain, because that would diminish it. It is the breach of trust. What many of the victims spoke about in those letters, about the sense of the breach of trust. I don’t know. I don’t know there’s anything more you can say, Attorney Near. But I can’t let you sit down without asking.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Attorney Near says that she and Donna have talked about this very thing a lot. That Donna has really tried to get out what was going on in her head. She mentions that Donna appreciated the letter from the victim who talked about addiction in the brain. But the judge is asking a difficult question.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“And you know, I think your honor is right to guess. I probably don’t have an answer to that question, except to say that she more than accepts responsibility.” From the judge’s perspective, there’s a lot that’s hard to answer here.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Here is a person, Judge Hall says now, about whom I have how many letters and other things that tell me she’s a wonderful person, a good citizen. Clearly did something extremely bad and she caused harm to people, right? But how do you address that in a sentencing context when I’m also considering, as I’m required to, her history and characteristics which bring in her family? So there’s no — as I said to you folks in a brief conference we had, there’s no right. There’s no answer here. Forget about whether there’s a good answer or a right answer. The judge’s style is not endearing her to Leah.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t know what to do. How do I sentence? She had this whole thing. It was kind of like a “Seinfeld” episode I don’t know. Should — I don’t know. I don’t know.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I wrote a letter. Many of the women wrote letters. And the judge talked about how she had read all the letters, and it was so hard. It was so hard for her to decide. And I remember as she was talking about that, I was like, oh. [SIGH]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But anyway, says the judge, we’re just repeating ourselves, Attorney Near. So you said your client wished to speak. Yes, she does, Your Honor. Donna stands.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Many people in my life have asked me various versions of the question, how did this happen, says Donna. Initially, I was unable to answer that question with true in-depth insight. When I learned that my ex-husband had knowingly exposed my three minor children to his COVID illness, that he would later suffer an extended near-death hospitalization from, it created a fear and level of anxiety in me where my children are concerned. I reached a whole new level that I didn’t know how to process or handle.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’ve spent the greater part of seven years working within the legal DCF and Family Court system to protect my children. I did all of this by the book and took pride in the same. June 2020, I hit a breaking point. And to think that after all I have done to protect my children, that my actions have hurt them so severely is devastating and a consequence that I will live with for the rest of my life.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the back of the courtroom, Leah listens intently.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna — I don’t think she — it was all about how she had kind of like, oh, she needs to be with her children, and she had failed her children. I don’t know that I heard a lot of remorse. But again, what could I have heard? What could any of us have heard that made us — would make us feel better?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Would an acknowledgment of the pain the patients felt have done it? Because Donna leaves that out. She doesn’t say anything about pain at all.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then Donna says something that surprises Leah, something that Leah and others are learning in this courtroom for the very first time. Donna says, I am a former fertility patient myself, and that interest is what drove me to my interest in fertility nursing.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She’s an IVF patient, too? Are you kidding me? I mean, you could almost hear. There were people on Zoom. I can almost feel like the bomb dropped.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Everyone’s on mute. But I’m telling you, it was like a moment where I was like — it was like an audible gasp.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The fact that she was an IVF patient herself, I had to etch a sketch my head. I was in a kind of profound shock. It was literally like a punch to the face, a punch to the gut. It took it to a different kind of —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">A different kind of what, right? This is exactly the question. This levels it up, but how and on what scale? Scale of emotional violence? We started on breach of trust. Now we are up to intimate betrayal.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In her letter to the judge, Donna writes that she went through multiple rounds of fertility treatment, and that her history as an IVF patient makes what she did that much more devastating. This is the moment things shift for Allicia.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I heard that she went through IVF, I was like, there is no way. There is no way I can ever look at this lady the same way. That’s when I lost it because I said to myself, there is no way me, personally, who have gone through this, would even try to put any amount of other pain on a person who went through that. And you went through IVF yourself. How could you possibly do this to somebody else? it was in that moment I couldn’t look at her the same way I looked at my patients anymore.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna had known how hard it was to go through IVF, not just the physical pain of the retrieval. She actually probably didn’t know that pain at all. She’d probably gotten some kind of anesthesia.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">What was worse was that she knew the emotional pain. She knew about the special vulnerability of being a fertility patient. She knew this in the intimate way you can only know it if you go through it yourself. And still she had done this.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like I said, I am not a people’s person. So nothing anyone does surprises me because people are who they are. So it just opened my eyes to say even when somebody has been through the exact same thing as you, they can still turn around and be a monster towards you.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the front of the courtroom, Donna apologizes to those she has hurt. It was never my intention to harm anyone in any way. And then she winds up. Thank you very much, says the judge.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">She addresses Donna’s attorney. I guess I have one question I will ask you, Attorney Near. I believe that I think in her statement — although I’m having trouble finding it, eyeballing it. But I think you argue it in your brief about how — and she just said it again, “never intended to hurt anyone.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I struggled with that, wherever it is, when I read it. I don’t know — I don’t know how she wouldn’t. She didn’t intend, I guess, in the sense she’s an addict. She’s doing something she doesn’t control. Clearly, she knew the consequences of depriving a patient undergoing this procedure of painkiller.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK. Another big question — intent. Donna knew that her patience would suffer. How do we deal with that? Attorney Near explains that Donna did not have malicious intent, but she continues.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is not any kind of ignorance about what the outcome is going to be. I guess I was separating it out from somebody who was setting out to harm others. It is not an excuse. It is not a justification. I just think it is a fact.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, says the judge. Attorney Near adds, she continued to do this because she didn’t think, because she didn’t stop and try to reconcile the fact and impact of what she was doing in the moment.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Sidebar for a moment, my own sidebar, my own reaction to Attorney Near. The idea that Donna didn’t stop and think, the way it plays out is more nuanced, isn’t it? Sometimes you do stop and think about the fact and impact, but your need is so great that you do it anyway, or sometimes you choose not to stop and think because you don’t want to stop and think. The whole point of your addiction is to not have to stop and think.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It is true that Donna had an opioid addiction. It is also true that she made choices in that addiction. OK, I’m done with my sidebar. Back to the proceedings.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Judge Hall turns to the prosecution. You’ve been very patient, she says to Assistant U.S Attorney Ray Miller. He gets right to it. I think there’s another side to the story here, the US attorney says. I think the first thing we need to think about, the first question we need to ask is why are we all here today? Why are we here on Tuesday morning in federal court?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, I’ll tell you why we’re not here. We’re not here because the defendant decided to use drugs because of difficult family circumstances. We’re also not here, quite frankly, because she stole drugs. We’re here today because she knowingly, intentionally, repeatedly, replaced the drugs with saline and inflicted incredible physical and emotional suffering on the victims.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">As she did with Attorney Near, the judge listens to Attorney Miller, and then she begins to speak. She has another big question, one about institutional responsibility.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I have a question. When narcotics are dispensed to patients, is it typical that one person is in charge and there’s no other — there’s not a double check, somebody who also has access to look at? Someone on the Zoom chimes in. Yes, great question. Great question.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m sorry, says the judge, those of you on the Zoom are not allowed. It’s as if you’re in the courtroom. But anyway, again, I don’t wish to take away from her culpability. I’m not in any way asking and saying it is somebody else’s fault. I’m just curious.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yale’s responsibility isn’t the subject of this hearing, but this is the one moment it’s alluded to. Aside from this, the fact that there was an institutional failure here, a failure to prevent an employee from causing pain to patients for months on end doesn’t come up at all.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The US attorney mainly talks about why he’s recommending the guideline sentence for Donna — again, up to about five years. The judge tells him that he’s making an extremely compelling case. But she still got the same problem, which is, essentially, Donna harmed patients. But if she goes to prison, there’s harm to her kids.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Attorney Near has put a lot of stuff in front of me that raises grave concerns, the judge says. I don’t hear the government telling me, Judge, that’s smoke and mirrors. She’s making it up. It’s not as bad as that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I hold Attorney Near in the highest regard, Attorney Miller says. I don’t doubt the veracity of anything she says. What I would urge the court to think about is that we’re hearing one side of the story.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m not prepared to litigate the viability of the ex-husband as a parent. I have no idea. He might be terrible. I have no idea. He might have other counterpoints to what’s being said. You don’t have that perspective. So I think that need to weigh that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The judge is weighing that. She notes multiple times during the hearing that there are gaps in what she knows. But she’s read, quote, “enough to raise red flags for me.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It is in total tension, she notes, the degree of culpability and the degree of family circumstances that I need to consider. The judge explains that Donna’s family circumstances don’t make her any less culpable, but that the court is, quote, “reluctant to wreak extraordinary destruction on the family.” I don’t know that the victims would appreciate it, the judge says.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The victims can probably appreciate the legal requirement. That doesn’t seem that hard to grasp. What the victims don’t appreciate is the painful irony that isn’t being acknowledged here — Donna’s status as a mother protects her. And motherhood is why a lot of them are here in the first place. They wanted what she has.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember being like, why does she get to be a mom? This was the irony. Why does she get to be a mom that we can feel compassion about when she decided that that’s something that she could withhold from other people who were trying to be mothers?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You’re talking about the fact that, oh, your family was falling apart. We were trying to have a family. You got to where it could fall apart. We weren’t even there yet. How dare you?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Allicia had that miscarriage at 17 weeks and five days. She sees herself as having been a mother for all of that time. As a mom for 17 weeks and five days, I would have been willing to die so my kid could live, she said.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The cruelty here is not just the pain of the procedure, but the chance that Donna had had to be a mother, to continue to be a mother. And there’s an essential incongruity, which is that Donna says that, as a mother, she wants nothing more than to keep her children safe, but she made choices that endangered them.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The amount of fentanyl she was having and then returning to work, I just — but then she also had to go and pick up her kids and feed her kids. And she had this whole narrative about, oh, I was protecting them from this evil, shitty father who didn’t care about COVID. And I thought, how did you take care of your kids?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What she was implying was she was doing everything in her power to be there for her children. And in my head, you were doing the total opposite of everything you should be doing to be there for your kids.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">To Allicia, there are a lot of things that just aren’t adding up.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And these are the things that was annoying me. They were making it seem as though the reason she was doing drugs was because of her husband was — he was being too much, or he was — whatever the reason was, to me, it was just BS, to me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The story seems like BS to a bunch of patients. She’s divorced. That doesn’t sound very unusual to me, one of them said. Another one put it this way. For her to blame all of it on anxiety over a divorce with her husband and COVID, that doesn’t make any sense.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But the story doesn’t have to make sense to the patients. They aren’t the intended audience. The purpose of the story is to keep Donna out of prison. The story has been constructed for the person who will decide her fate. The story is for the court, not for the victims.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The hearing is almost over, but first there is a victim who wishes to speak. Good morning to you. And whenever you are ready to speak, please go ahead, says the judge.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The victim speaks directly to Donna. You hurt me. You hurt me on that day, and the pain was horrible. It was excruciating, and it was awful. For me specifically, what was really terrible was the psychological toll that Judge Hall has referenced because I’m a physician, and I know exactly what fentanyl does. And I have had the procedure before, the extraction. And so I had fentanyl before.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So this time at my second egg extraction, when they gave me the saline, I immediately said, hey, this is saline. You didn’t give me any fentanyl at all. And the nurse — I don’t think it was you, actually. The nurse looked at me and said, I already gave you 25 fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I said you need to give me another because that was saline. She gave me another one. And I said, uh-oh that was saline also. I said I know exactly this was saline. I can taste the saline in my mouth, and it’s not the feeling of fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I push fentanyl every day all the time. I give moderate sedation every day. This is not fentanyl. And I had to look at the doctor and look at the nurse and say, oh my god, I’m about to undergo this procedure with no sedation. And you know, I had to undergo it because otherwise I was going to ovulate and lose all of my eggs.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The victim says that after the procedure, she was in so much pain that she ended up going to the ER at the hospital where she herself was a trauma surgeon. There, quote, “the nurse I had worked with the day before didn’t even recognize me because I was in such terrible shape. I was in such pain. All I could do was moan. I couldn’t even communicate. I was in that much pain. And she thought I was a drug addict. She didn’t even recognize me as her attending doctor that was working with her in the emergency department the day before when I was on call.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“You know, the victim says, “to me, you’re the big winner here. You weren’t in pain. You have three children. Nobody’s going to take anything. You still have three kids. At this infertility clinic, there’s hundreds of women who would rather be where you are, rather have the three kids. It’s been a really difficult time, and you kicked us while we were down. That’s all.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna’s lawyer speaks. I think it is appropriate for the victims to have the last word today, Your Honor.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">If only that were the case, Attorney Near. I’m afraid I have to have the last word. Here it comes.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m still struggling, Judge Hall says. The judge seems to be trying to pull everything together. She reflects on the patient suffering. She tells Donna, quote, “you worked such pain on these women.” She reflects on all of the letters in Donna’s support on her confession, her rehabilitation, her children.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The judge seems to have settled something for herself. She is ready to rule. As I reach my decision, I keep thinking of someone who was never my colleague, but for whom I had a lot of respect, Judge Emmet Clarie who sat in Hartford.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">He sat in the days when no one with a white collar went to jail. But his philosophy was he was ahead of his time. Everyone should have a taste. If you would please rise. I’m going to impose a sentence.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The judge sentences Donna to four weekends in prison, alternating weekends because of her custody arrangement. On Sundays, the marshal will make sure she gets out in time to pick up her kids.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Obviously, I know from the victim’s point of view, this is too little, the judge says. And I’m sure they think I’ve made a mistake. I don’t know if I have myself or not. I do not see it, she adds immediately.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The judge named some additional conditions, including a period of house arrest and three years of supervised release with mandatory substance use treatment and drug testing.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Anything further that the court should address, the judge asks? Not from the government, says Attorney Miller. No, Your Honor, Donna’s lawyer says.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">All right, we’ll stand in recess. Thank you all very much. Someone on Zoom unmutes. Do the world a favor and go overdose, you disgusting drug addict. Whereupon, the hearing adjourned at 12:47 PM.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What do you make of the judge’s decision to sentence her the way she did? What do you make of the judge’s sentence?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think it was unfair. Here’s the kicker to a situation like this. Unless you have been in a situation where you’re going through infertility issues, you’ll never understand it.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The judge had heard the victims’ stories, but she hadn’t experienced what they did. In Allicia’s view, a story is not enough to understand the pain of another.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I can tell you how I feel less than the average person because I cannot go to bed with my husband, make love with him and make a child. That wasn’t my way. So my only way was the way that I chose to do it. And even trying to do that, someone else decided to bring more pain to what I’m already feeling. It’s hard for somebody to see that unless the judge herself had gone through IVF.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And by that logic, the logic of identification, you wonder about the inverse. The judge was a mother. Donna was a mother. Donna’s attorney was also a mother. Was motherhood the decisive alliance? But Allicia thought there were probably other reasons for the sentence, too.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Honestly, did I think it would be that little amount of time? No. Absolutely not. But I wasn’t surprised.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Why weren’t you surprised?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Honestly, it’s a lot of things that doesn’t surprise me in this country a whole lot. And like she says, she will get to stay home, and she’ll be there for her kids. And every accommodation was made for this woman.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">This woman caused so many pain to so many different people, and she was accommodated. In my mind, she was accommodated to the full extent. Now, I don’t believe that would have been everybody else. But for her, it worked out. And when you look around in this country, nothing surprises me anymore, honestly.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Do you think that the fact that she’s white had something to do with her sentence?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allicia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. If you’re doing time for registering to vote, and someone can take that amount of medication for herself, then that tells me something. And everything is not about race, but a lot of things are. A lot of things are.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The sentence invited questions about privilege. It wasn’t just that it was so light, it was so convenient. It was designed to fit Donna’s needs. It was bespoke sentencing tailored to fit her needs as a mother.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna got to say, oh, but I’m now rehabilitating, and I want to be with my kids. And the judge said, you know what? Yeah, you’ve had a really hard — this is really hard. It sounds really hard. Let’s make sure you can just go to prison the weekends where you don’t have to see your kids, and then we’ll let you out in time to go pick up your kids. I mean, is that whiteness in America? I don’t know. What is that?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I thought the entire time — I was like, Black women have had their children taken away for a tenth of an centimeter of what Donna’s done. And she’s now — she’s being protected because she represented herself as an injurious mother, and she’s the last line of defense for her kids. And that’s OK even though she’s a drug addict who’s putting other people’s lives at risk.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Leah went into the hearing not knowing what she wanted. She came in torn between her misgivings about the system and her outrage at Donna. In a way, the sentence kept her in that place.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Katie, the addiction researcher, went into the hearing knowing what she believed, if not exactly what she wanted. But seeing it all play out did not feel good.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I cried the whole time. I mean, I found it really, really sad all around, Just the nurses’ circumstances, the victims who testified — so emotional — and all of us who experienced these horrible procedures and pregnancy losses, the poor system in place, the criminal justice system, the whole thing I remember. And I remembered, despite my letter and my belief in substance abuse treatment, I felt and still feel really deeply that many women were probably really hurt by the light sentence that she received.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember texting a friend something like — it was complicated. But a good outcome, but complicated.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Angela, the patient who works as a public defender, learned about the sentence after the fact. She chose not to attend the hearing.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">At that point, I had a newborn son. And the thought of reliving it in those moments was too much for me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah. What do you make of her sentence?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">[CHUCKLES]:</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Kudos to her public defender, honestly.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When Angela learned of Donna’s crime, she’d struggled to identify as a victim. Now her dual identities were colliding again.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think the worst conversation I had was a family member was like, well, what would you have liked to see happen? And honestly, I don’t know. And this family member asked me if I wanted her to have to go through an egg retrieval without pain medication.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">If that would have been enough, would you want her to suffer like you suffered? And I dead face said I would never want someone to go through what I went through. I don’t care if she’s the reason why it happened. I would never wish this on her.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And just having to then explain how traumatic it was, but how I had to be OK with her — what I think is a light sentence. She has to do jail on the weekends and go to a drug program.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But the defense attorney in me also kind of kicked into high gear. And I was like well, this is somebody who has a drug addiction, and they need help. And incarcerating them isn’t going to help. They need to be able to function in society beyond this. And she obviously lost her nursing license. So she can’t do it again, theoretically.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">At the end of the hearing the few people inside the courthouse stepped out into a sparkling spring afternoon. Local news cameras followed Donna. Her attorney put a protective hand on her back.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna held a sheaf of papers and averted her gaze as she left the scene. Her case was over. But for Angela and other patients, Donna was not the only one, or even the main one, who had something to explain.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Honestly, my anger is not at her. It probably should more be at her, but it’s not because she’s one person. And she wasn’t the nurse in my room. So what were the rest of them doing?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In front of the courthouse is the New Haven Green. On the other side of it up a little hill is Yale, a long wall of stone towers along College Street.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Yale Fertility Clinic is not a brand new setting. It’s not one doctor in a back alley. This is an entire setup. This is an entire institution that’s behind it. It’s got this reputation. How do they not see that this is happening?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Now the patients had Donna’s story. It may have been incomplete or unsatisfying, but it had been laid out. There was another story the patient still didn’t have. They didn’t have Yale’s story.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">What we know about what happened at the clinic, that’s in two weeks, July 27, on the next episode of “The Retrievals.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“The Retrievals” is produced by me and Laura Starcheski. Laura edited the series with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder. Additional editing by Katie Mingle and Ira Glass. Research and fact checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love. Music supervision sound design and mixing by Phoebe Wang. Original music by Carla Pallone and music mixing by Thomas Poli.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer for “Serial Productions.” At “The New York Times,” our standards editor is Susan Wessling. Legal review by Dana Green. Art direction from Pablo Delcan. Producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelly Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni. Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor. Special Thanks to Vincent Sutherland and Kylie Silver.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“The Retrievals” is a production of “Serial Productions” and “The New York Times.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"AudioObject","@id":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/4e192778-7b40-420d-b665-61a44dff004d/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=4e192778-7b40-420d-b665-61a44dff004d&nocache","description":"","name":"Episode 3: The Sentence","contentUrl":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/4e192778-7b40-420d-b665-61a44dff004d/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=4e192778-7b40-420d-b665-61a44dff004d&nocache","uploadDate":"2023-07-13T10:00:03.000Z","duration":"PT2.799S"}</script></div></div></figure></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-4"><div class="css-53u6y8"><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">At the nurse’s sentencing hearing, the patients learn a shocking detail that forces them to confront the limits of their compassion.</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="AudioBlock-10"><figure class="margins-h css-1nhp71k"><figcaption class="css-5soref"><div class="audioFigureHeading"><h3 class="css-71086k">Bonus: Did This Happen to You?</h3></div></figcaption><div class="css-1ijhom3"><div><script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"AudioObject","@id":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/b1b2ca4a-2418-4eb3-a2be-a6252ddea106/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=b1b2ca4a-2418-4eb3-a2be-a6252ddea106&nocache","description":"","name":"Bonus: Did This Happen to You?","contentUrl":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/b1b2ca4a-2418-4eb3-a2be-a6252ddea106/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=b1b2ca4a-2418-4eb3-a2be-a6252ddea106&nocache","uploadDate":"2023-07-21T16:59:15.000Z","duration":"PT0.242S"}</script></div></div></figure></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-5"><div class="css-53u6y8"><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">A message from Susan Burton.</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="AudioBlock-12"><figure class="margins-h css-1nhp71k"><figcaption class="css-5soref"><div class="audioFigureHeading"><h3 class="css-71086k">Episode 4: The Clinic</h3></div></figcaption><div class="css-1ijhom3"><div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabindex="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="white" fill-opacity="0.9"></circle><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-title" role="region"><header class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-title">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to The Retrievals</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-testid="transcript-playback-controls"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabindex="99" type="button" class="css-1eut9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--color-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><title>bars</title><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g 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id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00/38:00</div><div class="css-og85jy">-38:00</div></div></div></div></header><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxywau"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-8p0vwh">Episode 4: The Clinic</h2></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patients had generally two kinds of questions about what went on at the clinic. The first kind of questions were about the system.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">esha</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">How could this huge system fail in such a way that this could happen? The fact that somebody was able to walk out with bags of fentanyl in their purse and no one batted an eye. How does that even happen?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">suan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The second kind of questions were about the people in that system.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You wonder what each person, the doctor or the nurse in the room, what their experience of this was? What were they thinking?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But most of the patients never got to ask those questions. Staffers were told not to talk with patients about what happened with the fentanyl. And for some of the patients, it was hard to bring up to.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I remember going into the clinic. I never spoke with anyone about it. And I remember that. I remember that feeling of going into the clinic and kind of looking around. And first of all, sitting in the waiting room, which of course, was not very full because of COVID.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So there’s maybe one or two other people around waiting for appointments or waiting in line. But thinking like — kind of resisting the urge to say, were you part of this? Did this happen to you? Like did you have a procedure without fentanyl?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then going in and seeing my nurse team, and also empathizing with them and thinking, like did this is going on? What’s your perception of this? And what was your experience of this? But knowing that I’m sure they were very sternly told not to talk to anybody about any of this.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But then you also — I think for me, it was also not understanding where the failure in the system was.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Uh-huh.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So not really knowing what to ask or who to ask even. Like it thinking about it now, it feels like it would have been gossiping. But it’s not gossiping really to say to your care team, this happened. Are you making sure this isn’t going to happen to me again?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Why do they not care that there were numerous women who were in excruciating pain? And they didn’t care. I get stuck there.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The staffers I spoke to did care, and yet this happened. How? From Serial Productions and “The New York Times,” I’m Susan Burton, and this is “The Retrievals.” This is episode four, The Clinic.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[THEME MUSIC]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was hard to find staffers who were willing to speak about what happened at the clinic. Some of the reticence had to do with the fact that there’s an ongoing lawsuit. Six months after Donna was sentenced, several patients filed a complaint against Yale.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 1</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We have another big story we’re following right now. Seven women have filed a lawsuit against Yale University Medical School.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 2</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And this is really unbelievable. The women say they were given saline instead of fentanyl during —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Over the next few months after that, more and more patients joined.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording 3</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Well, first on Fox 61 tonight, dozens more women are coming forward to sue Yale University nearly a year after a former Yale nurse was sentenced for tampering with fentanyl vials at a fertility clinic.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Now, there are almost 70 patients in the lawsuit in all. But the lawsuit says about how long Donna was doing this is a lot longer than what she says about how long she was doing it. Donna told investigators that she started stealing fentanyl and replacing it with saline in June 2020 when the clinic was located in a suburb of New Haven.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But patients and their lawyers believe that she began doing it before then when the clinic was located in New Haven proper. About half the patients in the lawsuit say they experienced severe pain before June 2020. Some as far back as 2017. Here’s Lynn, a special ed teacher who had, maybe you remember this number from the first episode, eight painful retrievals at the clinic.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I did find out the dates that she had admitted to, I was angry. I am confident that this was happening while they were still in the New Haven office. And again, it’s too coincidental that I experienced this excruciating pain. I know with my heart that she was doing this in New Haven and affected a lot more women than during that five-month period that she admitted to.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Again, Donna did not respond to my request to speak for this story. 200 patients may have been affected during the five-month period Donna admits to stealing fentanyl. If she started earlier, she could have affected 100 more.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">One of the lawyers who represents Lynn and other patients is named Josh Koskoff. He’s well known for his suit against the gun manufacturer in the Sandy Hook school shooting and the related case against Alex Jones. Early on, when Josh started getting calls from a lot of patients who said this had happened to them before June 2020, he felt like he should share that information. He contacted the US Attorney’s office and —</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">josh koskoff</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think more importantly is what I did was I also notified Yale. Once we started to hear from a lot of women outside this time period, I thought, well, Yale deemed it appropriate to notify the women that they knew might have been exposed in the six-month period. So surely, they would want to notify — it would be important for them to know that I believe this is going on for longer. And I notified them and asked them what they were going to do about it. I shared that information. And to my knowledge, they didn’t act.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I presented this to Yale they responded that the Department of Justice had conducted a thorough investigation and concluded that this took place specifically from June through October 2020. Yale declined to make anyone in a position of oversight available for an interview with me. But I did talk to staffers, people who worked at the clinic alongside Donna.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You won’t be hearing from them on tape. None of them wanted to be identified for fear of being retaliated against or losing a job. I don’t think it’s going to come as a surprise that I didn’t talk to any doctors who were like, yeah, for months, patient after patient was screaming and cursing me out. And looking back, I guess I should have done something about that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">If there is such a callous doctor, they did not respond to me. The people I talked to were talking to me because they were troubled by what had gone on at the clinic. Some of them had left. But this wasn’t about a vendetta, as one staffer put it to me. This was about telling what happened to prevent it from happening again.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I wish I could write about the staffers, like I’ve written about the women as a cohort with a shared experience and also as individuals whose identity shaped the way they made sense of it. But I can’t offer details about anyone I spoke to. This makes the way I approach the story of the clinic a little more forensic, a little more procedural, a little more like a case study in drug diversion, which is what stealing drugs in a medical setting is called. And this clinic could be a case study in how that happens and how it is missed.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’m going to start the story in an office the clinic occupied for years, an office in an older building in a medical complex off I-95. The Long Wharf exit. And I’m going to start in the retrieval room with the drugs they use there, fentanyl and midazolam.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">These drugs are one of the first things most staffers I talked wanted to make sure I understood. There’s a lot of variation in the way patients responded to these drugs. Some were out of it. Some were alert, even giddy, singing along to the pop songs, playing at a low volume on the radio.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And for some patients, the drugs were not effective enough. Even the maximum dose of fentanyl was not enough to manage their pain. Even when that fentanyl was actually fentanyl, the highest dose might not be enough for a bunch of reasons, like existing tolerance to narcotics, challenging anatomy. Sometimes a patient would be in so much pain that she would be kicking and screaming.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">How often would something like that happen? One or two times a year was when answer I got. Another person said even less. So that kind of extreme response was unusual, but not unknown. But these drugs didn’t treat pain 100 percent for all patients. With the medication approach that was used at Long Wharf, one staffer told me, this procedure can hurt.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Maybe 25 years ago, moderate sedation, like this fentanyl and midazolam combo, used to be standard retrievals. But it’s not anymore. Today, what’s more common is deeper sedation with propofol administered by an anesthesiologist or nurse anesthetist. At Long Wharf, a fertility nurse gave the drugs. And there was a limit to how much they were allowed to administer.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I told one fertility doctor from another clinic what Yale had used at Long Wharf she said, I’m shocked they do that with fentanyl and midazolam. In my opinion, that is not enough for this procedure. She wondered if it was a money saving thing.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But another doctor, who’d done hundreds of retrievals with fentanyl and midazolam back in the day and sometimes still does, said in her experience, this combination was absolutely fine. That as long as it was working properly. There wasn’t anything wrong with using it.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And staffers at Long Wharf said that retrievals were generally fine. But they wanted deeper sedation. The bottom line is that you want patients to be comfortable for their own sake, and because comfort is necessary for safety. There’s a long needle inside the pelvic cavity. Sudden movement presents a risk.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I wondered why Long Wharf didn’t have deeper sedation. Staffers had different and often vague understandings of the reason. Something about the oxygen access, one staffer said. But whatever the practical reason for not getting better anesthesia was, there was also a cultural one.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">There’s a ton of just inertia in trying to get things done at Yale, the staffer said. And I think if someone in a position of administrative leadership decides that something is not that important, then it just doesn’t happen.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So this is the baseline. This is the context. For years and years, Yale is giving these drugs that offer a relatively light level of sedation for this procedure. Patient response to these drugs varies. Some pain has been normalized.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">One of the things I wanted to know from staffers was if there was a point when they’d started seeing more pain than usual. Nobody could identify an exact date. But some people did remember something changing before June 2020, the date Donna confessed to.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">As one staffer put it, I remember a shift in feeling like we were doing things reasonably well and pretty much achieving our goals of minimizing pain. And then gradually, it didn’t seem like we were. A nurse recalled, I remember distinctly times a patient would say, oh, my God, I feel everything.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I looked at the physician and said, I gave the max. What can I give? Whether it was water, I don’t know. In hindsight, it makes you think it had been water. Not everyone was seeing this.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Retrievals were divided up among a lot of different doctors and nurses at the clinic. Often, doctors weren’t even doing retrievals on their own patients. But staffers who did register that something seemed off started coming up with theories to explain it, stories, the way everyone here did.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">One theory was just the basic, we need better anesthesia. Another, there was a new manager, and there was a lot of frustration with her. Nurses were leaving the clinic, and those who remained were spread thin.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Could that have something to do with it? But also, and this was the theory I heard most consistently, maybe it was because of this one doctor, someone who didn’t have great hands, as one staffer put it to me, or a great bedside manner. One staffer told me that all of the nurses were talking about how, in retrievals, this doctor would be like, if you don’t stop yelling, I’m just going to leave.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Another recalled of this doctor that, quote, their response was more often kind of an impatient. I can’t do this unless you stop moving, kind of almost scolding the patients for the discomfort that they were having. During this time, a doctor from Yale’s family planning service was invited to the clinic to speak to staffers about how to be more gentle during procedures.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Some staffers were offended by the idea that they needed a refresher course. One said, we had this very sort of condescending talk about how to treat our patients and how to be empathic and responsive. I mean, the whole thing was just like, what is happening here? Are we all being subject to this insulting training because of one person?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">One theory that none of the staffers I talked to had was that a colleague was stealing drugs. That’s usually how it works with diversion. People don’t suspect their coworkers. But increased complaints of pain are a known sign of drug diversion.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And leadership is responsible for seeing the big picture. And if a manager was aware enough of pain to invite someone to speak on it, they should have investigated all possible reasons for the pain, including the drug supply.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Probably, the most basic step in preventing diversion is how you handle and store the drugs in the first place.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">At Long Wharf, these systems were not great. For one, the Long Wharf clinic didn’t have a Pyxis, a kind of secure vending machine for drugs that records each transaction. A machine is not a solution for poor oversight, and not every outpatient setting has one of these machines.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But two patients who worked as nurses were shocked that the clinic didn’t have a Pyxis. I can’t even take something as simple as a Tylenol out of the Pyxis without somebody wanting to know which patient it went to, when it was given, how much was given, one of them told me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">A staffer at the Yale clinic told me that when they wandered to a manager why they didn’t have a Pyxis, they were told Yale didn’t want to buy one because it was too expensive.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The way drugs are procured is supposed to be tightly regulated too. Because obviously, that’s a point where they could be pocketed. At Long Wharf, at least some of the clinic’s drugs came from Walgreens, including fentanyl, like it was somebody’s job to run out to Walgreens and pick up fentanyl. It sounds weird, and it was, even to people who worked at the clinic.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Staffers told me that when Donna had this job, she had often been insistent in trying to get doctors to sign the prescriptions she needed for the drugstore. One staffer remembered, she’d be very, very, very aggressive. Another said that Donna was constantly harassing fellows to write scripts for patients that were going to be done the following week.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">At the time, both of these staffers attributed this to a kind of mania for organization, but both also clocked it as odd. It was, OK, she’s like super efficient, one of them said. She’s trying to get her job done so she can go home to her kids, take her kids to their activities.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In early 2020, the clinic moved out of the Long Wharf office to a newly renovated building in Orange. Almost immediately, the pandemic started. One patient remembers shaking her doctor’s hand on like March 8, and the handshake already feeling a little strange. The clinic shut down for a while. And by the time things started up again, it was June 2020, the month that Donna says she started stealing fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">At the new building, there were new drugs. Now, patients were offered deeper sedation. Anesthesiologists came to the clinic for most retrievals, adding powerful sedatives like propofol into the mix with fentanyl and midazolam. Some staffers noticed a difference right away. The patients were more deeply asleep, one of them said to me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was more like a full on surgery. By comparison, they looked tremendously comfortable. But propofol, isn’t a pain drug. It just kind of knocks you out. And to the fertility doctors, that deeper sedation likely masked the fact that some patients weren’t getting fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So in the procedure room, some patients appeared comfortable. But in the recovery room, some of them came to in severe pain. At home, some continued to feel severe pain. And that part didn’t make sense to several doctors I spoke to, people not from Yale.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Fentanyl is short acting. Maybe it would cover pain for up to a half hour after the procedure ends. But that’s probably it. So how to explain the severe pain patients felt hours later or the next day? People I talked to didn’t doubt the patients were in severe pain. They just didn’t know where it was coming from.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But any patient in severe pain after an egg retrieval should not have been discharged, doctors said. It’s just not supposed to hurt that much. And severe pain is a sign that something might be really wrong.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When Donna got to Orange, she basically took over the drugs. In March 2020, two months before she says she started stealing fentanyl, she completed an application with the DEA that allowed her to sign controlled substance orders. She was in charge of ordering drugs for the clinic.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The room where the drugs were stored was sometimes unlocked, and Donna was able to enter without swiping her access card. Obviously, things went wrong with this setup. And even more things went wrong with this setup than were reflected in Donna’s criminal case.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Days after the loose cap was first discovered, the DEA investigated the clinic. Their audit found that a lot of drugs went missing under Donna’s watch. 6 percent of the ketamine, 24 percent percent of the midazolam, 35 percent of the fentanyl. This is in addition to vials she tampered with.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">These are hundreds of other missing vials that just who knows what happened to them. It’s possible that this was just very bad record keeping. The records from this time are messy, handwritten logs. But was Donna also stealing the midazolam and the ketamine? It is speculation to ask, but it is also weird not to ask, given that she was stealing the fentanyl.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">No matter what happened with those drugs, these are serious discrepancies. Yale agreed to pay the DEA $308,000 fine to settle these and other violations of the Controlled Substances Act. So that’s accountability on a regulatory level.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">On a personnel level, just who was or was not looking at those logs? Who was managing Donna? A staffer I spoke to emphasized the lack of oversight during this time. The nurse manager was new, and it was summer 2020, the pandemic.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The clinic was operating with a skeleton crew, is how this staffer described it. A lot was happening on Telemedicine. In retrospect, it was ripe for abuse, the staffer said.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The pandemic made it easier for Donna to hide what she was doing. But there is one thing that would have been very hard for her to disguise, how did nobody notice that she’d tampered with the vials, especially the caps? People I talked to who work with fentanyl vials were just kind of blown away by that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The caps on these vials pop off, and it would be impossible to reseal them the way they came. Of course, ultimately, an anesthesiologist did notice a loose cap. And now, the problem wasn’t that the fentanyl diversion was hidden. The problem was with how it would be addressed.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The loose cap was discovered on a Friday. And the following week, the news was shared, fentanyl was missing. It was almost immediately clear that Donna was under suspicion. Poor Donna, one staffer remembers a manager saying.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The staffer thought, poor Donna. Poor patients. Lawyers advised staffers not to talk about this even among themselves. It was all basically about protecting Yale, one staffer remembered. Nobody cared about anything that we went through as providers.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">No one cared what patients went through. It was all just sort of minimizing this as much as quickly as possible. The staffers I talked to emphasized that what they went through was nothing compared to what the patients went through. But they had also been betrayed by Donna.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And now, they had to wrestle with the repercussions of that, what cues they might have missed, what it meant to have caused pain to their patients, or to not have recognized the pain they were in, or the reason for it. Obviously, they were going to talk about it with one another. I mean, there was constant talking, one staffer said. That just wasn’t realistic. I’m sorry. It’s crazy. We can’t keep working and not vent and provide support to each other.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Six weeks after the loose camp was discovered, Yale sent out that letter that infuriated patients, staffers too. I found that letter so offensive, said one of them. The letter was an official story, Yale told about these events. And the staffer and some of the patients had the same reaction to this story. As it was told in the letter and would be told later, the story evaded. It blame shifted. It focused attention onto a person and away from the institution.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s a language that doesn’t take responsibility. It individuates the problem. So here’s this woman, who was troubled, who took advantage of an otherwise, impeccably well-oiled machine.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And again, it’s not like what can we do to never have this happen again but more, oh, well, it was her fault. She’s gone.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">esha</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think if it wasn’t Donna, it could have been anybody else. They didn’t create an environment where there were checks and balances, where there was a proper policy and procedure in place that there were ways to mitigate risk.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was like, oh, here’s this problem. We’ve now eliminated the problem. But there was a whole system of enablers. There was a whole system that helped prop Donna up, excused her behavior, and then threw her out.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It is a source of deep frustration for many of us that the party line up and down has been about one bad egg, a staffer told me. I would have liked to see my institution acknowledge mistakes, apologize to patients for a systemic failure on Yale’s part, take ownership, and clearly outline steps to prevent this from ever happening again.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Two former staffers gave me the same reason for leaving the clinic, that they felt they could not provide good patient care. To be, quote, “not proud of the carrier providing and constantly apologizing. It’s just exhausting,” one staffer said to me. In the end, the staffer felt that good patient care was not the driving force at Yale. It wore me down. I got really tired of feeling like I was expressing the same patient care concerns and either being told that someone was working on it, or that it wasn’t an issue.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">While Yale declined to answer almost all of my questions, they did offer me a statement. Yale deeply regrets the distress suffered by some of its patients when a former nurse at the Yale fertility center diverted pain medication intended for patient procedures. After Yale discovered the nurse’s misconduct, it removed her from the center, alerted law enforcement agencies, and notified patients who might have been affected. The center also reviewed its procedures and made changes to further oversight of pain control and controlled substances.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That phrase, pain control. It wasn’t part of the earliest statements Yale gave about these events, at least not the ones I’ve seen. As if it took them a while to understand the issue here, not just the institution’s failure to control drugs, the institution’s failure to control pain. How to think about that pain as a patient and as a practitioner? That’s coming up after the break when episode four of the Retrievals continues.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Early on in my reporting, a staffer suggested to me that not all of the patients in the lawsuit had actually been victims of Donna’s crime. Could their pain just be the reality of the retrieval? And the moment, I did not know what to make of the suggestion. What would it mean for me to consider the question that maybe not all of the patients had been victims?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In situations that involve disbelief, questioning can be construed as doubt. And to be clear, the staffer was sensitive to these nuances too, emphasizing that no matter what, these patients had been betrayed by the clinic. Leah told me on that original Department of Justice call, this was, quote, “the million dollar question.” How do I know if this happened to me? And the answer was, you don’t.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">My answer to this question is that the underlying issues are still the same. Patients reported severe, unexpected pain, and that pain was not properly addressed, and maybe hadn’t been for years before these events. For example, after hearing this podcast, a patient who had undergone a painful retrieval at the clinic some years ago contacted me.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Soon after her retrieval, she’d complained in writing, asking why Yale didn’t offer, quote, “additional pain control options during egg retrievals similar to those offered at other fertility centers here in Connecticut, such as propofol.” After a follow up meeting to address this and other issues, a doctor in a leadership position emailed the patient a list of action items. We’ll work on making anesthesia available to our patients, he wrote. That was in 2014.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When this patient heard this podcast, it was like she was hearing the story of her own retrieval. I was crying out in pain, she told me. Before the retrieval, a nurse had assured this patient that she would hold her hand to help her through it. I don’t want your hand, the patient remembers thinking. I want the drugs I had for my dental surgery.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Even a decade later, her retrieval is a trauma she does not speak about. Patients say that Yale dismissed the pain they reported. Offering inadequate pain control is another way of dismissing pain, another way of saying, this doesn’t matter. It’s upsetting either way. Whether patients were in pain because their drugs were stolen or because the drugs the clinic used were just not enough for too many patients.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When a patient is in pain during a retrieval, what do the people in the room with her feel? Let’s walk it through. Let’s walk through the essential unit of this story about the Yale clinic, the retrieval. Here’s how it worked at Long Wharf.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The doctor would walk into the room. Lights are dim. Patient already there. Once the patient was sedated, the doctor would begin. If the patient flinched, the doctor would stop, ask the nurse to give more meds, wait for them to kick in.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">If the meds still didn’t work, the same thing again. And then if there were no more times to stop, no more fentanyl to give, the doctor might say something have, you have this many follicles left. Would you like me to stop or keep going? And most of the patients would say, keep going.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">There’s competing interests, right? One Yale staffer said to me. They’re uncomfortable, but they want to have a baby.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is an impossible position for the patient, of course. The patient is saying, yes, I want this. But what else could they say?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">By this point in their treatment, there’s already so much they’ve submitted to and so much control they’ve relinquished. And there’s a time sensitivity. A doctor doesn’t have all day. There’s only a window of a couple hours to get this done.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">After that, the patient will ovulate and lose all of her eggs. There’s an awareness of what’s come before this. Money, time, maybe previous losses. The last shot before the insurance runs out. It’s not a life saving procedure, one Yale staffer said to me. But also, I don’t think elective is the right word to use for something that’s allowing someone to build a family when they otherwise aren’t able to.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Doctors know what the patient has put into this and what she wants out of it. Each time I’m doing a retrieval and getting follicles, a doctor from another clinic said to me, I remind myself that this egg could be the baby.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But getting through a painful retrieval does not feel good.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s awful, one staffer from Yale told me. That’s not why I went into medicine, to cause people pain.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So what are the people in the room with a patient feeling? A lot. It’s not that they aren’t aware of pain. It’s that they’re attuned to multiple varieties of it, including the pain of longing.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The patient puts up with the pain because she longs to have a child. The doctor knows the depth of that longing. Getting the eggs causes one kind of pain but relieves another.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The literature on pain and fertility procedures is, for the most part, very concrete. What should we use for pain rather than how should we think about it? But I did come across one study with a more holistic approach. A paper on, quote, “trust pain and exit points.” This paper explored why patients chose to endure the pain of fertility treatment and what experiences of pain made them quit.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It was an idiosyncratic paper, kind of a mix of the sociological and the personal. And the research had been done 20 years ago in Israel, in a setting where egg retrievals were done via an incision through the abdomen. But what still felt applicable, actually what felt timeless, was the author’s conclusion that you endure the pain of fertility treatment because you, in a way, are already a mother.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">You are in the future in which you are already a mother, and you are suffering on behalf of your children. Put aside the notion that suffering on behalf of your children is intrinsic to motherhood or that all fertility patients want to be mothers. Of course, there are patients who would not use this word or find that identity relevant.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">What’s meaningful here is that you put up with the pain and the present because of how badly you want what you want in the future, whether that is a particular identity or anything else.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So that’s why patients stayed in fertility treatment. Why did patients leave? A higher level of hurt is required than that of pain or humiliation alone, the doctors wrote. Only when the women felt that the treatment endangered their physical or mental existence that the women quit their IVF treatments.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Some of the ill patients did stop fertility treatment. Most kept going, and most who did had babies. That’s what matters, right? The baby is just one outcome. What do the other ones look like for the patients and for Donna? That’s next on the final episode of The Retrievals.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Retrievals is produced by me and Laura Starecheski. Laura edited the series with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder. Additional editing by Katie Mingle and Ira Glass. Research and fact checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love. Music supervision, sound design, and mixing by Phoebe Wang.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Original music by Carla Polone, and music mixing by Thoma Polley. Indie Chubut is the supervising producer for Serial Productions. At “The New York Times,” our standards editor is Susan Wesling. Legal review by Dana Green. Art direction from Pablo Delcan.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelly Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni. Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor. Special thanks to Marcel Cedars, Lindsay Goucher, Cara Murray, Megan Olson, Shannon Page, Rebecca Phelan, Lisa Szuchman, Maggie Smith, and Adam Starecheski. The Retrievals is a production of Serial Productions and “The New York Times.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"AudioObject","@id":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/e13822a8-058c-47e3-ad71-76ec5dfb5126/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=e13822a8-058c-47e3-ad71-76ec5dfb5126&nocache","description":"","name":"Episode 4: The Clinic","contentUrl":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/e13822a8-058c-47e3-ad71-76ec5dfb5126/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=e13822a8-058c-47e3-ad71-76ec5dfb5126&nocache","uploadDate":"2023-07-25T06:25:45.000Z","duration":"PT2.2800000000000002S"}</script></div></div></figure></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-6"><div class="css-53u6y8"><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">What we know about what happened at the clinic.</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="AudioBlock-14"><figure class="margins-h css-1nhp71k"><figcaption class="css-5soref"><div class="audioFigureHeading"><h3 class="css-71086k">Episode 5: The Outcomes</h3></div></figcaption><div class="css-1ijhom3"><div><div class="css-1g7y0i5 e1drnplw0"><button tabindex="100" class="css-1rtlxy" type="button" aria-label="close"><svg width="60" height="60" viewBox="0 0 60 60" fill="none"><circle cx="30" cy="30" r="30" fill="white" fill-opacity="0.9"></circle><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M38.4844 20.1006L39.8986 21.5148L21.5138 39.8996L20.0996 38.4854L38.4844 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M21.5156 20.1006L20.1014 21.5148L38.4862 39.8996L39.9004 38.4854L21.5156 20.1006Z" fill="black"></path></svg></button><div class="css-rdbib0 e1drnplw1"></div><div class="css-18ow4sz e1drnplw2"><div aria-labelledby="modal-title" role="region"><header class="css-1bzlfz"><div class="css-mln36k" id="modal-title">transcript</div><button type="button" class="css-1igvuto"><div class="css-f40pzg"></div><span>Back to The Retrievals</span></button><div class="css-f6lhej" data-testid="transcript-playback-controls"><div class="css-1ialerq"><button tabindex="99" type="button" class="css-1eut9gw" aria-label="play"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" width="20" height="20" viewBox="0 0 20 20" fill="none"><path fill-rule="evenodd" clip-rule="evenodd" d="M8 13.7683V6L14.5 9.88415L8 13.7683Z" fill="var(--color-content-secondary,#363636)"></path><circle cx="10" cy="10" r="9.25" stroke="var(--color-stroke-primary,#121212)" stroke-width="1.5"></circle></svg></button><div class="css-1701swk"><svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" viewBox="0 0 40 36" id="el_0kpS9qL_S"><title>bars</title><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_65hRV2Qwn" class="css-1fxvzwo" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC_ILVvi2tqx" class="css-1wnday1" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_oZ84Hna1GC"><rect x="34" width="6" height="36" id="el_qw_T_tngXw"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_p_9Pm85Ac" class="css-fwki7z" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU_WxG3R40yd" class="css-t3i5e6" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_mYVjkduhMU"><rect x="22.67" width="6" height="36" id="el_lf9GrROk6j"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_kYNRGDfcw" class="css-t9te0w" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw_3c3bzSjOJ" class="css-1r5375t" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_o-EuxhgoAw"><rect x="11.33" width="6" height="36" id="el_-iueO8klO0"></rect></g></g></g><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_y_fKcpSxn" class="css-qknaag" data-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="0"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC_R6bNB6_Ys" class="css-1ruvd04" ata-animator-group="true" data-animator-type="2"><g id="el_F7mSMPhqpC"><rect width="6" height="36" id="el_dS5TKNZZ5w"></rect></g></g></g></svg></div><div><div class="css-1t7yl1y">0:00/53:49</div><div class="css-og85jy">-53:49</div></div></div></div></header><div class="css-uzyn7p"><div class="css-1vxywau"><p class="css-1nng8z9">transcript</p><h2 class="css-8p0vwh">Episode 5: The Outcomes</h2></div><dl class="css-p98d0w"><dt class="css-xx7kwh"></dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email transcripts@nytimes.com with any questions.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women get pregnant. Some of them see it begin. They see it begin at the clinic, in the same place where they had their retrieval. On the ultrasound screen, they watch as the embryo is placed in their uterus. Some of the pregnancies stick.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Esha’s is one of them. The single embryo she implants divides in two, and she finds herself carrying twins. They’re born in the spring eight weeks early. And after Isha delivers, she goes back to her OB for her own follow-up.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">esha</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">After I delivered, I went in for my six-week postpartum visit to meet with my doctor. And it somehow came up in conversation that I was part of this suit that was going on. And she looked at me and she said, well, what’s the big deal? I mean, you ended up pregnant.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And she’s not the first provider that said that to me. I’m actually in the process of switching psychiatrists, because I had a similar experience with her recently where she said, I really don’t get what the big deal is. You were successful. You got pregnant. What’s the problem?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Wow. I — wow. I mean, yeah. I mean, just what a thing to say. As if the only thing that matters is that single outcome and not the entire process.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">esha</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I mean, yeah.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Outcomes of fertility treatment are typically measured by the numbers. The CDC collects data. You can go online and look up a clinic and find out what percentage of egg retrievals result in live births. But the outcomes here can’t be expressed by existing options on a dropdown menu. Some of these outcomes are not concrete. And just like the initial experience of pain, some of the outcomes are questioned.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Really, what are their damages? One fertility doctor, someone not from Yale, said to me about the patients in the lawsuit. What are the harms done? What are the redressable harms? One of the patient’s own lawyers told me that when his firm got the first call from a patient, he went home, told his wife the story, then said, but nothing really happened to the woman. So it’s not a case. His wife enlightened him.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like Esha, Leia also had a weird interaction with an OB about her experience at the fertility clinic.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I was like, yeah, I mean, I had this horrible experience at REI. The nurse who was stealing the fentanyl. And I remember that one of the older doctors, she said to me, well, they took care of that. I said, they did? Did they? Again, this is why, at least for me, you start talking about it and someone tells you really politely in a very polite way, could you please shut up?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHS]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Could you kindly shut up? This is making me uncomfortable. Please be quiet now. The same thing. You know, like —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The same thing. In a way, it was a repetition. First, the women’s pain was dismissed. And now the repercussions were trivialized, too. It’s an act of erasure. To be told that the only part of a story that matters is the end.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They want pictures of the baby. Follow up. Let us know. They’re happy for you when you get pregnant, but the institution itself doesn’t seem to care beyond that. Beyond the results and the bottom line. I have a child. So what? I wasn’t harmed. I have an embryo still frozen, so I wasn’t harmed. That’s good enough? It’s not good enough.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">What are the lasting effects of this experience for the patients? And what are the outcomes for Yale? And for Donna. From Serial Productions in The New York Times, I’m Susan Burton, and this is “The Retrievals.” This is Episode 5, “The Outcomes.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Back at the beginning of all this, Yale told patients, there’s no reason to believe this event has had any negative effect on your health or the outcome of the care that you received. Yale seem to be saying, your measurable outcomes were not affected by this. Some patients wondered how that could be true.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I can’t say for certainty that we didn’t get all of the eggs that could have been retrieved that day. But my assumption would be when you have a patient on the table screaming that it’s painful and we need to stop, that there could have been a much better outcome to that retrieval.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">A few doctors told me anecdotally about leaving eggs behind when a patient is in pain. But there’s very little research on having retrievals without anesthesia and what the outcomes of that might be. It’s just not a standard category of study. What happens if we do a painful procedure without giving the patient pain meds?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Allison wound up with a lot fewer eggs than she expected.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allison</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I was just so upset that we didn’t have a better outcome.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Allison is a nurse. Actually, a nurse anesthetist. She gives fentanyl on a daily basis. I can’t imagine withholding it from somebody, she said. Allison was skeptical of Yale’s assertion that nobody’s outcomes could have been affected. Allison and her husband came to the clinic because they wanted to test embryos for muscular dystrophy to rule out the possibility of passing the gene along.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Though Allison was in her early 30s and had no infertility issues — in fact, she had one child already — her retrieval resulted in just three viable eggs and then just one embryo. Her doctor told her he was surprised. That he would have expected a better outcome. Allison would have, too. But Donna was her main nurse. And one thing she wondered was if Donna’s drug use had a domino effect.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Allison had been so alarmed by what she described as the organized chaos of the Yale clinic. That she’d recorded everything that went wrong for her there in a list. The entries included wrong meds prescribed, lab results never reported, conflicting instructions for a critical shot called the trigger shot.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Allison had charted all of the mistakes she observed in her treatment. And when she found out about Donna, she wondered if Donna had been charting mistakes, too. As in, introducing them.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allison</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When I would go in for my ultrasound, she would be documenting the follicle size while the doctor is doing my ultrasound. So what if she wrote down the wrong thing? How was someone under the influence of drugs supposed to be able to record things accurately? Is this why I didn’t have the outcome that everyone thought I was going to have?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna had many responsibilities for many patients’ complicated treatments.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allison</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t feel like if you’re under the influence you can possibly do all of that accurately for so many patients. I just don’t see that being possible.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Allison got lucky with that one embryo. She came out of this with a baby. But she lost something in the process, too. Trust. Culminating in the night of her son’s birth.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allison</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So when I had my son over the summer, we were in the hospital. And they did blood work on my newborn son. So they took my son’s blood, my newborn son. And they told me that his blood type was B positive. And when they gave me this information, I said, that can’t be. I’m O negative and my husband’s O positive. I can’t have a baby with a type B blood. So you have to redraw it. I said it must be a mistake. The lab must have made a mistake.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So then they redraw my son’s blood, and it comes back as B positive. And my mind immediately went to the clinic messed up and they gave me the wrong embryo. And this is not my baby. And it sounds crazy to even say that, but that’s immediately where my head went. So now with a baby who is not even 24 hours old. My husband laying on the hospital couch next to me. It’s the middle of the night and I’m having an argument with the nurse saying, this can’t be right. Redraw my son’s blood.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So now I have my husband thinking that the embryo that we implanted isn’t his or it’s not mine. And that’s not a rational way of thinking. But that’s immediately where our mind went, because we just didn’t trust this clinic at all. And I thought, oh my god, this woman who I was supposed to trust, I mean, what did she do? Did she mix up the vials? Did she label the wrong thing? Whose baby is this? It can’t be.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Finally, after a couple hours, I went into my husband’s chart and looked at his blood results and realized that he was B positive and not O positive. Which the story sounds so crazy to me to even say it out loud. But that’s just the type. I mean, that’s the impact it had on us, right? We didn’t trust them enough enough to even think that the baby that we had was ours.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And your mind shouldn’t go there. You shouldn’t immediately think that is what happened. And we still talk about it, because it’s just crazy to even think.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah. I mean, first of all, it doesn’t sound like a crazy story. It doesn’t sound crazy to me at all. And it’s so powerful, because it’s the night your baby is born. You shouldn’t have to be asking yourself the question, is this baby mine? That should just be a night — I mean, well, it’s not always a night of pure joy. It’s a hard few hours after —</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">allison</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">No, but that’s the memory that I have associated with that night. I mean, it’s really scarred me. Everything that I went through. I just don’t trust — I don’t trust anybody anymore. You think that your doctors and nurses have your best interests at heart, and it’s really hard to regain trust in the medical community when somebody has betrayed you like that. And I feel like that speaks volumes coming from someone who works in the medical field myself.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The negative downstream effect is just a deep mistrust of the medical setting. Where I work, by the way.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHS]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But more generally. I mean, I was always surprised because my twin sister was not super comfortable in hospitals. And I always felt like, oh, I work in a hospital. I’m extremely comfortable here going into the IVF process. It just wasn’t as stressful for me, because I felt really comfortable. And that has really been taken away.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">camise</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">To trust people with something as priceless as your child or whatever it is you’re doing to bring a child into this world and to lose that trust, it’s not something you ever get over.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">victoria</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">When you lose that trust in healthcare and medical practice, someone who never really had white coat syndrome, now does.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">esha</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I felt really distrustful about the other providers that I would be seeing at Yale and when it came to them touching my body or coming near me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">melissa</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t know, I feel like it’s hard for me to trust doing a medical procedure again in a way. For the most part I do, but it’s definitely made it more challenging. For instance, I had a C-section in May for my baby. And I just felt really a little bit nervous about, OK, am I going to feel this pain this time?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">^laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">^: And he was talking to me about, these are the medications I’m going to give you. And he’s like, and you’ll most likely be asleep. But there’s a chance that you could be awake. And then I was like, wait, wait, what? And so I started crying. And I just basically told him, I was part of that situation.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And he was so caring and understanding. He was like, I will make sure that you’re not awake for anything. I will be on top of it, and I will make sure that you’re given everything so that you don’t wake up or know what’s happening.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">melissa</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And I was surprised when they told me that I didn’t feel anything. But of course, I told the doctors and the anesthesiologist that I had gone through this. And I was like, I just want to let you know, because it makes me a little nervous, you know?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">esha</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The anesthesiologist came up to me, and it was this young guy. And said to me, OK, here’s your options. And was talking about a epidural and if we had to do anesthesia and this and that. And the minute he said anesthesia, I mean, I was calm through the entire thing. But the minute he said anesthesia, I looked at my husband in pure panic and started crying.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So it really had an effect on me. It still has an effect on me whenever I come across things when it comes to Yale. Unfortunately, they’re one of the biggest hospitals here — I think the biggest hospital system here. And even when it comes to my kids, I have the option between Yale and one other place. And whenever Yale becomes the option, it sends chills through me.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I had to move on after this.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In large part because of what happened with Donna when we chose to go to a new clinic.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Julia is the patient who was in so much pain after her retrieval, that she passed out and went to the ER. She left the Yale clinic. But not what happened to her there. That continued to reverberate.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s the initial experience. It’s my daughter asking for months if I’m OK or if I’m going to the hospital. It’s right away when you become pregnant, they test you for HIV and hepatitis. And it’s like, that it comes back. What if? What if they missed it the first time? I mean, why would I believe something from this office anymore, right?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then her sentencing is another one. Just this laughable punishment. That’s how I would say I experienced it. Just the waves keep hitting you. They keep coming.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">On the day Julia and I were talking about this, she was pregnant. It was 3 and 1/2 weeks before her due date.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Do you feel differently approaching this delivery than you did approaching the birth of your first child given everything that’s happened in between?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">There’s no comparison. It feels like a whole different lifetime has happened, right? And I mean, it feels —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">it feels like —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">it feels like my husband and I survived a war. It’s like a battle, you know? And it’s a very isolating experience to go through. If everything goes right. And then you add something like the anger of the case with Donna, of the doctors making you feel nuts.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And it’s just, I have so much — I have so much anger.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And you don’t want that to be what you — I’m sorry.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Oh, it’s OK. Take your time.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">julia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You don’t —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">it’s been a process trying to let go of that. Because I have a wonderful daughter.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Soon — soon, I’ll have a son. And I’m really actively every day working on trying to separate the battle that led to him from him, right? And it’s hard to explain, but they’re connected.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The story of the baby could not be told without the story of the clinic. And what this association felt like, this was something other patients also tried to name. The specific way the trauma was embodied.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">angela</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">There’s a part of me that honestly believes that the trauma from my first retrieval is the reason we had a miscarriage. And scientifically, I know that that is highly unlikely. But you read these stories about the trauma of birth and how different things that you do to babies when they’re being born and at birth can actually affect them for the rest of their lives.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And what’s to say that the process of harvesting them, that trauma isn’t ingrained in them either?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Having a child after this and being pregnant and going to these sentencing hearings, that’s something I haven’t even talked about. Is being pregnant and going — and how much of this did I actually, again, want my body to absorb while I was pregnant?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Leah got pregnant spontaneously outside of her treatment at the clinic. Her baby was the only baby I met. A smiling baby wearing striped pajamas. He sat on Leia’s knee. It was important for me to see a baby. Because it complicated the way I was interpreting the outcomes. It was so confusing. I’d been feeling empathic outrage.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s not the baby. Why are these people telling the patients that the baby is the only outcome that matters? But my god, to be in the presence of a baby, that’s literally the whole design of babies. To make you more attentive to them than to anything else. The baby is what matters. But everything else matters, too.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I have to say, there’s some gift from God that this child was naturally conceived and not conceived via — I have to say. And I can only, in a way, do this because I have a child who exists that they didn’t help administer to exist.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then how are you different? What are the reverberations of this for you?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">leah</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t know how to talk about that.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[LAUGHS]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t. I mean, it’s so deep, you know? That, I don’t know. I don’t know if I could talk about that. Because it’s incredibly harrowing, violent. And in many ways, it has been a kind of unspeakable experience. I will say that also it’s hard for other people to hear and listen to this. People cringe. There’s a kind of, I don’t know how to say this, but there’s a kind of —</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">there’s so much of your life you have to talk about when you’re talking about this. There’s so much of your life you have to talk about. Your marriage, your body, your psyche. Your relationships with other people the relationships. You’re going to have down the road with other physicians. What you’re going to do later if you want to have another child, et cetera.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">That’s its own thing. So when you talk about what are the reverberations, I mean, there — how do I even talk about my life without not talking about this? But how do I talk about this?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">One of the things that makes me angry is that Yale and Donna have put me in this position where I have to talk about the most intimate, raw details of my life that maybe I don’t even want to reveal to myself. That now I’m talking to you. But for a person who’s private and is — the other violence of this is that we, if anything is going to happen, we have to speak about it. You know?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">An added bonus, an added onus on us that, well, if anything is going to happen, or if that it doesn’t happen again, we have to speak about it. There’s no right turn or left turn out of this. You want there to be. Trust me, I’ve thought of it. But that’s the other reverberation, is that we have to talk about it, you know? That’s just only now unfolding.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Leah and the other plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Yale have to open up their lives for it. Do things like turn over their therapist notes. If they don’t, Yale can seek a court order to get them. They have to deal with questions like, describe any changes in the frequency and satisfaction of your sexual relations with your spouse following the incident. When Leia says violence, this is part of what is evoked for me. This kind of bullying extraction.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Of course, nobody has to join the lawsuit. I’ve heard from and of patients who didn’t. They chose not to join out of loyalty to their doctor. Or they just couldn’t. They’d had a miscarriage. They were in a dark place, depressed. In no state for this.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">A lawsuit is a way to hold an institution accountable. To send a message or teach a lesson. To advance systemic change. It is also a way to get something, to make it fair, and to announce, you should not have dismissed me. You dismissed me once. You may not dismiss me again. One of the attorneys representing the patients, Kelly Fitzpatrick, went through IVF herself. She told me that this case is different from a regular medical malpractice case in many ways, including this one.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">kelly</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">These women were repeatedly ignored. And so that sets it apart from a regular medical malpractice case. These women were gaslighted. They weren’t believed. They were ignored. And that makes it different.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">They were ignored. That’s what makes it different. So how do you do that? How do you sue for ignoring pain? This became a real question for me. Was there some statute? It’s not like that, another one of the attorneys told me. You can sue because they should have investigated reports of pain. That made sense.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">But it wasn’t exactly my question. There’s the harm that comes from not being believed. But then there’s the harm of not being believed itself. I kept reading around, doing Googles like, “How do you sue for not being believed?” “How do you sue for not being believed, women?” “Lawsuit — women’s pain not believed.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then I came across the perfect paper. It was called, “Miss Diagnosis — gendered injustice and medical malpractice law.” I loved this title. Miss Diagnosis. Like a shiny banner across your chest in a pageant for female pain. The paper wasn’t answering exactly my question. It didn’t open with the sentence, here’s how you sue for ignoring pain. What it did do is explore how this issue of women not being believed in medical settings plays out in court.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The author was a young attorney named Cecilia Plaza. She’d written the paper while still a student at Columbia Law School. She set out to answer a specific question about the gender gap in medical malpractice outcomes, which essentially is a question about whether women can be fairly compensated in the medical malpractice system. And what she found is that women likely cannot.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Because the foundation of this system is, did what happened to you meet the standard of care? If it did, you’re out of luck. Like, you’re a woman, you think you’re having a heart attack. You go to the ER. The doctor says, it’s just your anxiety, and sends you home. Then it turns out that you really were having a heart attack. Can you successfully win a case against this doctor in court?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Maybe not. Because doctors misdiagnose so many women’s heart attacks as anxiety that sending a woman home could actually be interpreted as a reasonable choice that an ordinary doctor would make. Just to be clear, Cecilia’s paper is not a work of opinion. It is an empirical analysis based on a ton of data. And what Cecilia found is that women cannot expect to get as much money as men in this system. Because dismissing women doesn’t necessarily fall below the standard of care.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So to win that heart attack case or other similar cases —</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">cecilia</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You would have to basically make the argument that not believing your patient’s report of symptoms or of pain is de facto below the standard of care. That’s not currently the case, which is a little bit mind boggling. But you would have to make that argument, and the court would have to agree with you.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Another thing that was mind boggling to me in all this lawsuit stuff happened in the back and forth of discovery. In discovery, there’s a part called written interrogatories. Each side asks questions, and the other side mostly objects. But even given that, I was taken aback by Yale’s objections to some of the questions on the plaintiff list.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Like, state whether there are policies and procedures concerning documentation and/or record keeping of pain at the clinic. Yale’s objection is that this question is overly broad and burdensome. And as to a request for a description of the process for evaluating patient pain during and after fentanyl administration, Yale says that this is irrelevant. Immaterial.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I got that this was part of a legal game. But it was also a microcosm of the whole situation.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (judge)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">All right, we’re on the record in the matter of Melissa Cohen versus Yale University. Docket number 216063194. Lisa Gorski versus Yale University. Docket number —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The lawsuit is scheduled to enter settlement negotiations this month. That tape is of a hearing in January. One plaintiff told me that at a recent town hall, discussion focused on the possibility that Yale will offer a lump sum to the group and an independent party will decide how the money should be divided up. Those who had procedures before June 2020, the date Donna says she started stealing fentanyl, expressed concerns that their experiences will be considered, quote, “less worthy.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">For the plaintiff, this, quote, “has become another retraumatizing experience of Yale/others telling women you didn’t experience what you believe you experienced. Unless it happened between certain dates. It’s now, again, someone not believing and discounting literally our reports of pain.” The patient’s attorney said they could not comment on this.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Incidentally, a former Yale nurse contacted me after hearing last week’s episode. A nurse who believes, based on what she witnessed, that Donna was stealing fentanyl before June 2020. She told me a version of something I’d heard from other staffers at the old clinic, the Long Wharf Clinic. This nurse remembers frequently finding fentanyl vials with loose caps. Like so many with loose caps that she says she sometimes had to look around for ones that seemed properly sealed.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">This nurse was alarmed by the loose caps and said she reported them to her manager. The nurse’s understanding was that Donna had told their manager that the loose caps were a manufacturing defect. When I asked Yale about this account, they pointed me back to their earlier statements.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Coming up after the break, Donna gets another hearing. That’s next when “The Retrievals” continues.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Donna received a light sentence. But at least, as one patient put it, she obviously lost her nursing license. But that was not the case. Back around the time Donna first confessed to law enforcement authorities, her license was suspended. But it was never actually taken away. In April 2022, almost a year after Donna was sentenced in federal court, she came before the Connecticut Nursing Board seeking to have her nursing license reinstated.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’ll make a motion to accept the consent order as presented for Donna Monticone.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The Connecticut Nursing Board meets monthly. And at nearly every single meeting, the board considers multiple requests from nurses who’ve been suspended for a substance use issue and now want to come back to work. Substance use disorder is an illness that can be treated. A person can move through it and return.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Usually at these meetings, it’s like, here’s the motion. Do I have a second? Discussion. All in favor, say aye. License back. And at first, it looks like it’s going to go that way with Donna. Then a board member named Lisa speaks up.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK, from what I am seeing, there is only one issue being addressed, and it’s not the moral issue of the harm that she actually caused to patients. The drug was substituted with — I think it’s water it said or something. That greatly disturbs me and rises the level of seriousness in my mind.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">We’ve heard how family and friends made sense of what Donna did. We’ve heard patients reckon with it, a federal judge. What’s fascinating about this meeting is to hear a body of her peers react. How will, a group that includes fellow nurses wrestle with what Donna did and what it would mean for her to return to doing this work?</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Lisa, the one who noted that there was a moral issue here, is one of the few board members who’s actually not a nurse. She’s the executive director of a patient safety organization. And she isn’t saying that Donna shouldn’t get her license back. At least not explicitly. But she is troubled, and she’s trying to get others to acknowledge that, wait, there’s something different here.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Lisa wonders if there’s some other penalty that could be imposed on Donna. Maybe a fine. Another board member disagrees.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (geri)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s Geri. I don’t support it. I don’t really the purpose of that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (patricia)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Lisa, you want to talk to your suggestion?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yes. So I’m particularly concerned. It’s not just that she appropriated the medication for herself and her own use. But we don’t know if the way she handled things — she might have introduced bacteria, infection, or whatever. I think that when you tamper with — the patient is getting something that they’re not supposed to be getting. And I’m just really, really concerned that the disregard makes it a second level up.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">She tries to articulate what that second level is.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">It’s just a more corrupted way of thinking. It’s not just self-centered about putting it in. It’s not having regard for the patient. And that’s what concerns me.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Finally, another member speaks up and backs Lisa. Someone else suggests language they could add to Donna’s consent order, which is the document they’re working on. Language about Donna’s reckless disregard for patient safety. Lisa is in favor of this.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I like the way Stacy worded it.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (stacy)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Reckless disregard for patient safety.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (patricia)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (patricia)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">So those are the words that you are looking to include. Is that correct?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">With patient harm.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (stacy)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Within that vein.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (patricia)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I don’t know that we could establish — we might have to say “potential patient harm.”</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Potential patient harm.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I think reckless disregard is a very important phrase put in there. Reckless disregard for patients, whether it’s their safety or what. For their level of pain or what. Patients under her care, she had reckless disregard for them. And I think that should be carried into the record. I really like that phrase. Thanks, Stacy.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (cindy)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">That really applies to anyone diverting drugs, though, don’t you think?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But this is a level that we rarely see, Cindy.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (cindy)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Yeah. I agree that the fact that she gave something else. Usually I think it’s just don’t give anything, so I agree. But I think that reckless disregard applies to diverting drugs.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">You’re probably right. Maybe we should see that going forward. Yeah. Let’s put that in in our recipe book. Yeah.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The consent order is sent back to be updated with the new language about reckless disregard. And then a couple months later, Donna’s case comes before the board again. On the day the board considers it, Donna and her lawyer joined the board’s video conference. Lisa herself takes the lead on moving Donna’s petition forward.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (lisa)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is Lisa. I make a motion that we approve the consent order for Donna Monticone.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK. Do I have a second?</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (cindy)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This is Cindy. I’ll second that.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">OK. Comments, discussion, questions?</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">This time, there isn’t anything substantive.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">All in favor? Aye.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Aye.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Aye. Aye.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Opposed? Abstaining. The motion passes. Congratulations. Good luck to Donna.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording (donna)</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thank you very much.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">archived recording</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thank you.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Thank you. Thank you.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Next on the agenda is a consent order —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">By January 2023, the suspension on Donna’s license had been lifted, and she was officially able to practice as a nurse again. The consent order included many conditions about substance use testing and restricted the kinds of settings in which she’d be permitted to work.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And then just two months later, Donna voluntarily surrendered her license. I don’t know why Donna surrendered her license. The attorney who represented Donna before the nursing board did not respond to me. But in 2018, a senior official in the Connecticut Department of Health said that most voluntary surrenders happen after an accusation of substance abuse.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">A surrender is not a final outcome. Donna could still apply to get her nursing license back.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">The women have babies. They labor at the hospital or in an outdoor shower. They come home. And before they know it, they’re thinking about things like sleep schedules. They put a little sign on the front door that says not to ring the bell. But they don’t come home with the baby right away. Here’s Lynn, the patient who had eight painful retrievals.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the end of this, ended up with my daughter Sunshine, who was born at 24 weeks, six days. So 107 days early. So we spent this last summer at the NICU. And I think at this point, I’m still angry. And at the same time, just so thankful that I have a baby at the end of this. Because if I didn’t have my daughter, it’d be a very different ending. A very sad ending to all of this.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Of the 12 women I initially spoke to, three did not have a child after all of this. When I asked one of them if she planned to continue fertility treatment, she said, oh no, we’re done. Another stopped for two years before being ready to start again at a new clinic. The third is Laura.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">is now 43. She finished cancer treatment and then resumed fertility treatment at Yale. She told me that she regretted not switching clinics right away. But you just go with what you know already, she said. After a miscarriage and a couple more tries, she became frustrated with her care there and started looking around for other options. It’s been 3 and 1/2 years since her original retrievals. Years of protocols and scans raised hopes. And then a reckoning.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So we had one embryo that looked really good. And we had just gotten the news that it was abnormal. So I was devastated and traumatized again. So I said to my boyfriend, OK, I need to go again. I found this clinic in New York. I had already lined it up because I had done consults with all of them. Because I had this rush. I had to have a baby. I had to have a baby.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So we drove five hours. It was 2 and 1/2 hours each way to this clinic. We were supposed to start that night. And they were the best deal for a cash patient.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">But Laura didn’t start that night. She didn’t start taking her meds. She didn’t start a new cycle. Cycle is the word to describe a round of IVF. Also a compulsive loop. Laura felt like the clinic she visited were keeping her in that loop, and she decided to take a break from them.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">laura</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Because these clinics make you feel like you’re failing. They don’t give you any other options. They just want to keep giving you drugs and they don’t talk to you about your health. I don’t know, I just — I have so much love to give, and I just want to have a baby, I just feel like. And I know I will be a mom. I know it will happen. But —</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">One of the central tensions of fertility treatment basically since its inception has been, OK, is this a patriarchal system or a feminist one? On the one hand, you have a top-down system that, frankly, was designed by men. There’s tons of drugs and doctors telling you what to do with your body. On the other hand, being able to decide when and how to have a baby and the possibilities that fertility medicine opens up for patients in all kinds of situations. This is also reproductive freedom. If you have access to it. Being a fertility patient is both a privilege and a trial. It involves both obedience and agency. Both submission and control. There are a lot of polarities here. A lot of ambivalence.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">In the end, the central ambivalence for some of the patients is a simple and powerful one — anger and gratitude.</p></dd><dl class="css-1jysr6y"><dt class="css-xx7kwh">katie</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">My doctor has retired — maybe not retired, but taken a new job in Florida, which I just envisioned as a retirement from this mess. And even now, I have this feeling that, well, he did his job. I got pregnant every time. These transfers were successful every time. And so I have a lot of gratitude to this doctor for getting me through this process, getting me pregnant each time, and then resulting in a successful pregnancy.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">At the same time, this is the person, the senior person who was in the room when I was sober during a medical procedure at which I was supposed to have anesthesia who has some responsibility for paying attention to that. Listening to that. Doing something about that. So I think that I am balancing this, the emotions around having a baby. Having a successful outcome of IVF and then the emotions around having gone through this pretty incredible experience.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">melissa</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">Obviously, clearly he should have pressed further and thought about, OK, well, there should not have been pain, and I need to investigate and see what is happening there or report it in some way. So I’m not happy with regards to that. But he is the reason why we have a baby. So and besides this issue, I was happy that it was successful in the end. So yeah.</p></dd><dt class="css-xx7kwh">lynn</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">The nurses and doctors that I dealt with, I have conflicting feelings. I’m angry. I’m upset that I was — my concern in talking with them was looked over as anxiety versus fear. And that’s all very confusing. But they still held my hand through this journey that ended with my beautiful daughter. So I’m thankful and angry at the same time.</p></dd></dl><dt class="css-xx7kwh">susan burton</dt><dd class="css-4gvq6l"><p class="css-8hvvyd">I said at the beginning that everyone told a story about what happened here, and that all these stories revealed something about women’s pain. How it’s tolerated, interpreted, accounted for, or minimized. So now we’re at the end. What do these stories reveal? The short reductive answers. The ones we can articulate now that we’ve sat with these stories and their complexity.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I’ll go in order. How it’s tolerated. That’s patience. Why did they tolerate pain? Because they wanted to have a baby. How it’s interpreted. That’s, how did their healthcare providers interpret it? As unusual but in the known range of normal. And my god, what that says about, quote, “normal.”</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">How it’s accounted for. That’s Donna. It’s accounted for by her experience as a mother who was a victim of a bad relationship. And that account somehow carries weight in the criminal justice system, where Donna suffers no meaningful consequence for the pain she caused. How it’s minimized. That’s Yale. Irrelevant and immaterial.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Within hours after a trailer for the series went online in June, before the first episode was even released, a woman wrote to me saying she was shaking. That she believed that this had happened to her at Yale. I always explain it as I was crawling up the table in agony, she wrote. Additional notes from former Yale patients soon followed.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">I was made to feel it was my fault for being overly sensitive, wrote one woman. I have felt so traumatized and alone, confessed another. Most of these patients had retrievals before June 2020. They never got the letter from Yale or any other communication about it. These patients had been denied information that could have helped them make sense of their experience.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">One patient described events that took place at a retrieval in 2018. She remembered a nurse — she isn’t sure if it was Donna — laying her down on the table. When I said I wasn’t comfortable in that position, she said something to the effect of, well, it isn’t a massage. You aren’t supposed to be comfortable. I started to get teary eyed.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">When the procedure began, I was awake and in pain. The patient said to the doctor, I’m in a lot of pain. I can feel everything you are doing. Is that normal? The doctor instructed the nurse to give more pain meds. The meds didn’t work. The nurse then made a rude comment, the patient wrote, which I cannot recall specifically now. Something like, we heard you the first time you said it.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Another patient wrote that Donna was her main nurse and the first person who made her feel supported in her choice to use donor sperm. Now the patient was struggling to make sense of all this new information about Donna and, quote, “who she was to me.” I am Donna, wrote another listener. This listener was not a Yale patient. She said she was a nurse who stole drugs from the hospital where she worked. She’s in recovery now, but this podcast and the severe reaction to Donna online had made her feel only more shamed and unable to share her own history.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">So many laws and best practices skirted and ignored, wrote a hospital pharmacy technician. It seems to me that even Donna could sue Yale for not protecting her from temptation.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Most emails I’ve received are about pain. Pain that was unacknowledged, not believed, or not adequately treated. Some about fertility treatment, some about birth. Probably the thing I’ve gotten the most notes about are IUD insertions. After an almost unbearable IUD insertion, one woman was told by her nurse, some women are able to explain their whole dream vacation and don’t even the procedure is going on. The woman looked at the nurse. I nicely replied that that was insane.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Some of the stories describe traumas that have been processed. Other notes have the raw power of the newly tapped. As if this has been inside maybe for years, and it’s almost like didn’t know you could be angry about it. Didn’t realize that this was yet another one of those things that upon reflection, oh my god, this is not OK.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">One of many things that until you hear someone speak about it, you think, as Lynn said in the first episode, this is just what women go through. Yale refused to respond to the lawyer’s questions about pain or to my questions about it. About how pain was documented and addressed at the fertility clinic. Was there even a record of this pain? Consider this a record here of the pain the women described individually and as a chorus again and again.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">[MUSIC PLAYING]</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“The Retrievals” is written and reported by me, Susan Burton, and produced by me and Laura Starecheski. Laura edited the series, with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder, additional editing by Ira Glass, research and fact-checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love. Music supervision, sound design, and mixing by Phoebe Wang. Original music by Carla Pallone, and music mixing by Thomas Poli.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer for Serial Productions at The New York Times. Our standards editor is Susan Wessling. Legal review by Dana Green. Art direction from Pablo Delcan. Producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelly Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni. Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">Additional editing and production on this episode by Alvin Malith, Janelle Pifer, Nadia Raman, Stowe Nelson, and Matt Tierney. Special thanks to Megan Read, Anna Starecheski, Kylie Silver, Jen Guerra, Lee Riffaterre, Erik Tanner, Katie Fuchs, Jordan Cohen, Victoria Kim, Jason Fujikuni, Kimmy Tsai, Ashka Gami, Nina Lassam, John McNally, Krystal Plomatos, Sam Posner, Shvetha Zarek, Cat Lynn, Sara Whetstone, Ryan Wade, Angie Belsos, Amanda Gabbianelli, Ellen Bengiorno, and Jessica Leady.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">And many thanks to all of the listeners who have written in with their own stories.</p><p class="css-8hvvyd">“The Retrievals” is a production of Serial Productions and The New York Times.</p></dd></dl></div></div></div></div><script type="application/ld+json">{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"AudioObject","@id":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/97d7457a-f1dd-40f1-a4c9-5347fc29cf01/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=97d7457a-f1dd-40f1-a4c9-5347fc29cf01&nocache","description":"","name":"Episode 5: The Outcomes","contentUrl":"https://nyt.simplecastaudio.com/415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d/episodes/97d7457a-f1dd-40f1-a4c9-5347fc29cf01/audio/128/default.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=97d7457a-f1dd-40f1-a4c9-5347fc29cf01&nocache","uploadDate":"2023-08-03T10:00:04.000Z","duration":"PT3.229S"}</script></div></div></figure></div><div data-testid="Dropzone-15"></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-7"><div class="css-53u6y8"><p class="css-at9mc1 evys1bk0">In fertility treatment, a successful outcome is defined as a healthy baby. In this story, the outcomes are complicated for everyone involved.</p><hr class="css-7ad88g e1mu4ftr0"/><h3 class="css-1vs5pxi e1gnsphs0" id="link-641f16b4"><span><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Behind the Series</strong></span></h3><h3 class="css-15h6bi9 e1gnsphs0" id="link-420de10c"><span>Your Host</span></h3></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="UnstructuredBlock-17"><div><div class="css-7t70i5"><div class="css-17pke92"><div class="css-1w4ly0e"><div class="css-ygtapu"><img alt="" src="https://static01.nyt.com/images/2023/06/21/reader-center/author-susan-burton/author-susan-burton-square320.png"/></div></div><div class="css-y7cws2"><p class="css-1jo4olz evys1bk0"><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"><a class="css-yywogo" href="https://www.nytimes.com/by/susan-burton">Susan Burton</a></strong><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10"> </strong>is a longtime staff member at “This American Life,” where she has produced, edited and reported some of the show’s most memorable episodes about women’s experiences. She is the author of the memoir “Empty.”</p></div></div></div></div></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-8"><div class="css-53u6y8"><h3 class="css-1vs5pxi e1gnsphs0" id="link-NaN"><span>◆ ◆ ◆</span></h3><h3 class="css-15h6bi9 e1gnsphs0" id="link-68216400"><span>About the Music</span></h3><p class="css-798hid etfikam0"><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Carla Pallone </strong>is a composer based in France. After classical training as a violinist, she performed in the bands Mansfield.TYA and VACΛRME. She now composes music for cinema and the theater, and has written music for films including “La Fille au Bracelet,” “Libre Garance!” and “Midnight Skin.”</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="Dropzone-19"></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-9"><div class="css-53u6y8"><h3 class="css-1vs5pxi e1gnsphs0" id="link-NaN"><span>◆ ◆ ◆</span></h3></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="RelatedLinksBlock-21"><div data-testid="lazy-loader"></div></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-10"><div class="css-53u6y8"><hr class="css-7ad88g e1mu4ftr0"/></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="RelatedLinksBlock-23"><div data-testid="lazy-loader"></div></div><div data-testid="RelatedLinksBlock-24"><div data-testid="lazy-loader"></div></div><div class="css-s99gbd StoryBodyCompanionColumn" data-testid="companionColumn-11"><div class="css-53u6y8"><hr class="css-7ad88g e1mu4ftr0"/><h3 class="css-15h6bi9 e1gnsphs0" id="link-37b93589"><span><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Credits</strong></span></h3><p class="css-798hid etfikam0"><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Reported, produced and hosted by </strong>Susan Burton<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Produced and edited by </strong>Laura Starecheski<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Executive Editor, Serial Productions </strong>Julie Snyder<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Supervising Producer, Serial Productions </strong>Ndeye Thioubou<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Music supervision and sound design by</strong> Phoebe Wang<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Original score by </strong>Carla Pallone<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Music mixing by</strong> Thomas Poli at Impersonal Freedom<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Research and fact-checking by</strong> Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Standards Editor</strong> Susan Wessling<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Legal review by </strong>Dana Green<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Art direction by </strong>Pablo Delcan<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Additional editing by</strong> Katie Mingle and Ira Glass<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Additional production by </strong>Michelle Navarro<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Deputy Managing Editor</strong> Sam Dolnick<br/><strong class="css-8qgvsz ebyp5n10">Producing help by </strong>Jeffrey Miranda, Kelly Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe and Anisha Muni</p><p class="css-798hid etfikam0">Special thanks to Erik Tanner, Pierre Cattoni, Lee Riffaterre, Katie Fuchs, Jordan Cohen, Victoria Kim, Jason Fujikuni, Kimmy Tsai, Ashka Gami, Nina Lassam, Jon McNally, Krystal Plomatos and Sam Posner.</p></div><aside class="css-ew4tgv" aria-label="companion column"></aside></div><div data-testid="InteractiveBlock-26"><section data-testid="inline-interactive" id="serial-coldest-case-customization" data-id="100000008796174" data-source-id="100000008796174" class="interactive-content interactive-size-scoop css-1fwl6kh"><div class="css-17ih8de interactive-body" slug="serial-coldest-case-customization" data-sourceid="100000008796174" id="embed-id-100000008796174"> <script>window.registerInteractive && window.registerInteractive("100000008796174");</script> <style> h1.css-x1iy13:before { content: url(https://static01.nytimes.com/projects/storylines/serial.svg); display: block; margin-bottom: 1rem; } @media (min-width: 600px) { h1.css-x1iy13:before { content: unset; display: unset; margin-bottom: unset; } h2.css-91w7ck:after { content: url(https://static01.nytimes.com/projects/storylines/serial_light.svg); display: block; margin-top: 1rem; margin-bottom: 0.5rem; } h2.css-sj37bw:after { content: url(https://static01.nytimes.com/projects/storylines/serial.svg); display: block; margin-top: 1rem; margin-bottom: 0.5rem; } } @media (prefers-color-scheme: dark) { .NYTApp h1.css-x1iy13:before { content: url(https://static01.nytimes.com/projects/storylines/serial_light.svg); } } p.css-5kewg3 { display: none; } </style></div></section></div></section><div class="bottom-of-article"><div class="css-1i6tsou"><div class="css-h77nca eqi4ubu0"><div class="css-kzd6pg"><p>Susan Burton is a longtime staffer at “This American Life,” where she has produced, edited, or reported some of the show’s most memorable episodes about women’s experiences.<span class=css-kzd6pg> <a class="authorPageLinkClass overrideLinkStyles" href=https://www.nytimes.com/by/susan-burton>More about Susan Burton</a></span></p></div></div></div><div role="toolbar" data-testid="share-tools" aria-label="Social Media Share buttons, Save button, and Comments Panel with current comment count" class="css-yomkvi"><div></div><div 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arrive at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":30.9,"start":28.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They check in on different mornings, in different months and calendar years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":36.04,"start":30.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"None of them are here on the same day, but they will come out of the day with the same story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":41.98,"start":36.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 1","text":"They started the procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":44.79,"start":41.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 1","text":"And, you know, I was just sort of taken by surprise, not expecting the excruciating 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possible?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":95.99,"start":93.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 2","text":"How is that even -- like, how am I feeling?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":98.24,"start":95.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 1","text":"How do people go through this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":99.948,"start":98.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 2","text":"I remember thrusting my hips up, saying, \"I feel everything.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":105.32,"start":99.948}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 2","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":106.542,"start":105.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 2","text":"But what are you going to 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either.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":123.63,"start":121.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And in the absence of information about the pain, people came up with stories to explain it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":129.24,"start":123.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients constructed stories.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":131.34,"start":129.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Staffers at the clinic came up with theories, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":134.65,"start":131.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Eventually, a nurse would tell her own story about the pain, as would Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":139.57,"start":134.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 4","text":"The Yale Fertility Clinic is not one doctor in a back alley.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":143.23,"start":139.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 4","text":"This is an entire institution that's behind it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":145.79,"start":143.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 4","text":"It's got this reputation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":147.31,"start":145.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 4","text":"How do they not see that this is happening?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":150.47,"start":147.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 1","text":"Am I being difficult?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":152.14,"start":150.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 1","text":"I mean, you just question your sense of self.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":158.06,"start":152.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 5","text":"You are treated like a hysterical woman from the second you walk in there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":163.46,"start":158.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 2","text":"Like, nobody believed me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":164.96,"start":163.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 1","text":"I felt crazy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":166.325,"start":164.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In fertility treatment, you evaluate the outcome by whether you wind up with a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":176.4,"start":170.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The outcomes here are a lot more complicated for everyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":180.61,"start":176.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 6","text":"Are you kidding me?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":181.86,"start":180.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 7","text":"That's when I lost it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":183.24,"start":181.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 8","text":"I could almost feel like the bomb dropped.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":185.31,"start":183.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 9","text":"Bullshit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":186.143,"start":185.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 9","text":"No harm done?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":187.41,"start":186.143}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SPEAKER 7","text":"There's no way I can ever look at this lady the same way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":191.88,"start":187.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"From Serial Productions and The New York Times, I'm Susan Burton.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":196.05,"start":191.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is The Retrievals, coming June 29.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":201.77,"start":196.05}}]},"uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002Ff15ea2c5-ba2e-522f-bf82-fe9129544832"}},"summary":{"__typename":"SummaryBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","text":"Dozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A five-part narrative series explores the shocking events that unfolded there."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"}},{"__typename":"BylineBlock","bylines":[{"__typename":"Byline","creators":[{"__typename":"Person","bioUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002Fby\u002Fsusan-burton","displayName":"Susan Burton","id":"UGVyc29uOm55dDovL3BlcnNvbi8yNDc5ZmMzNy01MGU0LTU4ODctOGEwOC1iZDQ4OTc5MDk0NzY=","promotionalMedia":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2023\u002F06\u002F21\u002Freader-center\u002Fauthor-susan-burton\u002Fauthor-susan-burton-thumbLarge.png"}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvNDBmNDBlZjYtMDMxYi01YmY5LWJlODgtY2NiYWFlYzI1NDAw"}}],"prefix":"Hosted by","renderedRepresentation":"Hosted by Susan Burton"},{"__typename":"Byline","creators":[{"__typename":"Person","bioUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002Fby\u002Fsusan-burton","displayName":"Susan Burton","id":"UGVyc29uOm55dDovL3BlcnNvbi8yNDc5ZmMzNy01MGU0LTU4ODctOGEwOC1iZDQ4OTc5MDk0NzY=","promotionalMedia":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2023\u002F06\u002F21\u002Freader-center\u002Fauthor-susan-burton\u002Fauthor-susan-burton-thumbLarge.png"}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvNDBmNDBlZjYtMDMxYi01YmY5LWJlODgtY2NiYWFlYzI1NDAw"}},{"__typename":"Person","bioUrl":"","displayName":"Laura Starecheski","id":"UGVyc29uOm55dDovL3BlcnNvbi9lMmYwMTM4Mi03YmUxLTVhNGItOWUzYi03NGI3MGQ1OTc1ZjQ=","promotionalMedia":null}],"prefix":"Produced by","renderedRepresentation":"Produced by Susan Burton and Laura Starecheski"},{"__typename":"Byline","creators":[{"__typename":"Person","bioUrl":"","displayName":"Laura Starecheski","id":"UGVyc29uOm55dDovL3BlcnNvbi9lMmYwMTM4Mi03YmUxLTVhNGItOWUzYi03NGI3MGQ1OTc1ZjQ=","promotionalMedia":null},{"__typename":"Person","bioUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.nytimes.com\u002Fby\u002Fjulie-snyder","displayName":"Julie Snyder","id":"UGVyc29uOm55dDovL3BlcnNvbi9iYzVkZDQxNS1kZDg2LTU5MzEtOTkwNy1iZTI2NzZiNmQ2MTA=","promotionalMedia":null}],"prefix":"Edited by","renderedRepresentation":"Edited by Laura Starecheski and Julie Snyder"},{"__typename":"Byline","creators":[{"__typename":"Person","bioUrl":"","displayName":"Carla Pallone","id":"UGVyc29uOm55dDovL3BlcnNvbi81OWI3OTZiMS1jZjBlLTUzYjctYjZkMS1kYmQ1MzlmNTUxN2I=","promotionalMedia":null}],"prefix":"Original music by","renderedRepresentation":"Original music by Carla Pallone"}],"hideHeadshots":false,"role":[],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Heading3Block","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null}],"text":"Listen and follow ‘The Retrievals’"},{"__typename":"LineBreakInline","type":null},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null},{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"https:\u002F\u002Fpodcasts.apple.com\u002Fus\u002Fpodcast\u002Fthe-retrievals\u002Fid1691599042"}],"text":"Apple Podcasts"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null}],"text":" | "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null},{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"https:\u002F\u002Fopen.spotify.com\u002Fshow\u002F6EvG4iL7sOi8L4UrzLopmE?si=61ad378f2fb64093"}],"text":"Spotify"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null}],"text":" | "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null},{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.stitcher.com\u002Fshow\u002F1073776"}],"text":"Stitcher"},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null}],"text":" | "},{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[{"__typename":"ItalicFormat","type":null},{"__typename":"LinkFormat","title":"","uri":null,"url":"https:\u002F\u002Fmusic.amazon.com\u002Fpodcasts\u002F8be6789a-9ef6-4adf-a8e7-103947432eab\u002Fthe-retrievals"}],"text":"Amazon Music"}],"textAlign":"CENTER"},{"__typename":"RuleBlock","type":null},{"__typename":"SummaryBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"The patients in this story came to the Yale Fertility Center to pursue pregnancy. They began their I.V.F. cycles full of expectation and hope. Then a surgical procedure called egg retrieval caused them excruciating pain."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Some of the patients screamed out in the procedure room. Others called the clinic from home to report pain in the hours that followed. But most of the staff members who fielded the patients’ reports did not know the real reason for the pain, which was that a nurse at the clinic was stealing fentanyl and replacing it with saline."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":0},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"From Serial Productions and The New York Times, The Retrievals is a five-part narrative series reported by Susan Burton, a veteran staff member at “This American Life” and author of the memoir “Empty.”"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":1},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Burton details the events that unfolded at the clinic, and examines how the patients’ distinct identities informed the way they made sense of what happened to them in the procedure room. The nurse, too, has her own story, about her own pain, that she tells to the court. And then there is the story of how this all could have happened at the Yale clinic in the first place."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":true,"bad":false,"index":2},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Throughout, Burton explores the stories we tell about women’s pain. How do we tolerate, interpret and account for it? What happens when pain is minimized or dismissed?"}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":true,"adsDesktopHoldout":true,"adsHybrid":true,"adsMobile":true,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":3},{"__typename":"RuleBlock","type":null},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":4},{"__typename":"Heading2Block","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Listen to The Retrievals "}],"textAlign":"CENTER"},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women are seeking fertility treatment for a variety of reasons.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":4.72,"start":0.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They've had a couple of miscarriages and they're pushing 40, they don't have fallopian tubes or they need sperm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":11.11,"start":4.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One woman has a diagnosis that's like a metaphor from feminist sci-fi, a uterus with a single horn like a unicorn.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":18.91,"start":11.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"All of them wind up at the fertility clinic at Yale University.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":23.83,"start":18.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A couple of the women choose this clinic because they work at Yale and that's what the Yale Health plan covers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":28.93,"start":23.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Others go to Yale on the recommendation of their doctors.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":32.29,"start":28.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But in Connecticut, you don't even really need the recommendation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":35.71,"start":32.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale medicine, it's a blue chip medical brand.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":39.043,"start":35.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"You know, Yale is just a huge name.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":40.96,"start":39.043}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And you just think anything that has anything to do with Yale is going to be the best of the best.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":46.237,"start":40.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It's really not close to our house.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":48.07,"start":46.237}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It's not where I would have gone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":50.02,"start":48.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"But we figured, another doctor from another hospital said this is the best you can get.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":56.41,"start":50.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And you want -- of course, you want that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":60.25,"start":56.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To some of the women, the clinic seems to live up to its billing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":64,"start":60.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They like their doctors, feel cared for by them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":67.3,"start":64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"That man is an angel,\" one of the women tells me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":70.66,"start":67.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"He is by far the best doctor I've ever had.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":74.35,"start":70.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Others are not happy at the clinic from the start.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":76.93,"start":74.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's things like feeling like a number or issues with communication.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":81.14,"start":76.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's a lot to communicate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":82.57,"start":81.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You don't know how hard fertility treatment is until you get into it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":86.81,"start":82.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And once you start it in one place, it can be difficult to go somewhere else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":90.77,"start":86.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So they talk themselves into staying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":93.112,"start":90.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's the first thing they go against their instincts and talk themselves into.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":96.445,"start":93.112}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN 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eggs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":126.73,"start":122.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A side effect is emotional volatility.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":129.919,"start":126.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"The wind is making me cry,\" one of the women says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":134.06,"start":129.929}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But the thing is, you have to stay calm, don't get stressed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":138.08,"start":134.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's so stressful trying not to get stressed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":141.47,"start":138.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One woman uses a fertility meditation app called Expectful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":145.76,"start":141.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She does her guided meditation on the beach.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":148.91,"start":145.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The app plays the sound of waves while the real waves heave in the background.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":153.95,"start":148.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's absurd, but so much of this is absurd, including the money.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":157.13,"start":153.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's all kinds of stuff that's not covered no matter what insurance you have.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":161.36,"start":157.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Meanwhile, your ovaries enlarge and you get so bloated that your abdomen feels like bricks.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":167.18,"start":161.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then finally, you get to the day you've been waiting for, the day of the first egg retrieval, which is what it sounds like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":175.76,"start":167.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The eggs are removed from the body and then fertilized or frozen, depending on what you're doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":181.89,"start":175.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How many eggs am I going to get?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":183.83,"start":181.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That is the big question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":186.29,"start":183.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The more eggs you get, the better your chance of a healthy embryo, a viable pregnancy, a child.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":193.74,"start":186.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The day of the retrieval, the women arrive at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":197.51,"start":193.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They check in on different mornings and different months and calendar years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":202.23,"start":197.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"None of them are here on the same day, but they will come out of the day with the same 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eggs, she's going to start treatment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":227.55,"start":224.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":229.34,"start":227.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Laura is trying to put all of that to the side and just focus on the procedure ahead.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":233.87,"start":229.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"was excited, like trying to stay positive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":237.86,"start":233.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I was just like, having been through so much just the month prior, I was like, this is going to be easy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":244.25,"start":237.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Because I had been through so many surgeries and procedures, I was just like, I know what this is like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":250.7,"start":244.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I know what it's like to be under anesthesia or something and be given medication so you don't feel things.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":255.89,"start":250.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The egg retrieval is a surgical procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":258.47,"start":255.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A long needle is inserted into the vagina, then pierced through the vaginal wall and up into the 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fentanyl takes away pain and the midazolam relaxes you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":285.23,"start":280.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some people get drowsy with this combination.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":287.66,"start":285.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Others remain alert.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":290.33,"start":287.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The use of fentanyl surprises some of the women.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":292.88,"start":290.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of them, a public defender, has seen a lot of clients messed up by fentanyl, and for a second, she's worried.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":299.78,"start":292.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN 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last steps before the procedure, get an IV, go over some papers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":330.58,"start":324.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If their partners came back with them, now their partners say goodbye.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":334.75,"start":330.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then it is time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":337.14,"start":334.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women tell what happens next.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":339.75,"start":337.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I walked myself into the procedure room because you get rolled out afterwards, but you don't have any medication in you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":345.51,"start":339.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"You're just kind of hooked up to the IV pole.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":348.18,"start":345.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I walked into there, and you get on the chair or table, whatever they call it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":353.61,"start":348.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And that's from there, they said, you're not going to feel anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":356.58,"start":353.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And they explained everything that was going to happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":360.545,"start":356.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"They started the procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":363.12,"start":360.555}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And you know, I was just sort of taken by surprise, not expecting the excruciating pain, and just letting them know that I don't think the pain medication is doing anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":379.14,"start":363.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It really feels like you're stabbing the needle.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":384.08,"start":379.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I felt everything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":386.58,"start":384.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It's literally your most intimate parts of your body.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":392.12,"start":389.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"They're using these long needles.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":393.98,"start":392.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And there's also a screen so I can watch what they're doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":397.83,"start":393.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I couldn't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":399.14,"start":397.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I had to try and look away because literally, each needle pierce you feel.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":404.39,"start":399.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"As we were moving along, it was my blood pressure started going up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":409.91,"start":404.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I was sweating profusely and telling them I was just in too much pain, that they had to stop.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":416.45,"start":409.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"At that point, I remember them giving me more of the pain medication, and me saying, it's not making a difference, a nurse coming over and putting a wet towel on my head, and another nurse holding my hand, and them comforting me and saying, you know, you're going to be OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":437.75,"start":416.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"The nurse who --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":440.12,"start":437.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"she was at the top of my body kind of at my shoulders, wiping the tears away and helping me kind of hold my breath to keep myself still so that the doctors didn't slip with the needle, and just telling me that I was going to be OK, that I was going to get through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":457.67,"start":440.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And up until that moment, I'm so excited.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":464.24,"start":462.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Like, oh, I have 24 follicles.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":466.707,"start":464.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Like, this is great.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":467.54,"start":466.707}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Like, I'm going to have a great egg retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":469.46,"start":467.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And then you're like, oh my god.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":471.02,"start":469.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I wish there was only one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":472.25,"start":471.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Like, everything was counting on that retrieval and that's how it feels, like, the weight of your world.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":482.42,"start":472.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"My partner and I -- she's counting on me to be able to get through this and to have this successful retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":489.68,"start":482.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And all I'm feeling is, oh my god.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":491.63,"start":489.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I need it to stop.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":493.31,"start":491.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Is this worth it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":494.48,"start":493.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And you know, your feet are in the stirrups.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":500.97,"start":497.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And you know, you're supposed to be laying on the table, but I remember tightening up and just trying to relax my body so that they could do what they needed to do, because I was so tense that like, my bottom was almost off of the table.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":515.557,"start":500.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I remember like thrusting my hips up, actually thrusting my hips up saying, I feel everything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":522.09,"start":515.567}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Like, and like, nobody believed me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":526.13,"start":522.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And it's just like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":528.18,"start":526.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":529.402,"start":528.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But what are you going to do?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":530.61,"start":529.402}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I wanted the procedure done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":531.87,"start":530.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I just let it happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":533.08,"start":531.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I was like, I'm awake, so --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":536.295,"start":533.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"No.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":541.38,"start":540.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, I was stone cold sober and awake.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":543.9,"start":541.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I remember, the egg retrieval, they kind of do them one by one or like a couple at a time, my impression.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":551.47,"start":543.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And so you have moments in between pain to say like, what the fuck is going on?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":557.33,"start":551.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I do remember, I think I swore.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":560.43,"start":557.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I was using curse words because it was just so painful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":564.42,"start":560.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I don't know if I can do this any longer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":567.855,"start":564.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"You know, you just have to get through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":569.98,"start":567.855}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It's going to be over before you know it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":571.23,"start":569.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"OK, this is going to be over eventually.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":572.73,"start":571.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"You can do this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":573.73,"start":572.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"You can do this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":574.47,"start":573.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"You just want this moment to be over.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":575.88,"start":574.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Get through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":576.64,"start":575.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Get through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":577.44,"start":576.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I remember yelling or kind of making like, ah, and really like looking and confusion at my nurse, the attending nurse, and her saying, I'm giving you the most I can legally give you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":593.07,"start":581.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"She said that that's the maximum that she's allowed to give me, so she couldn't give me anything else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":598,"start":593.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I'm almost certain that at one point, they said that they had given me all of the pain medication that they could give me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":603.763,"start":598.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"At one point, they did say that I had maxed out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":606.18,"start":603.763}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I couldn't have any more fentanyl or versed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":608.71,"start":606.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I was like, how is this possible?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":610.897,"start":608.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"^LAURA^ How is that even -- like, how am I feeling this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":613.23,"start":610.897}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"How do people go through this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":614.8,"start":613.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I can feel that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":615.842,"start":614.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Like, I could feel the --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":617.79,"start":615.842}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I don't even know how to describe that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":619.92,"start":617.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Like, you can just feel them inside of there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":622.29,"start":619.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"As a woman, we've all been through things with those kind of doctors and stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":627.1,"start":622.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But like, this is just a pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":628.35,"start":627.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It's hard to even explain what it felt like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":632.22,"start":628.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"This is hard to do, but could you describe the pain that you felt?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":640.907,"start":634.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Oh gosh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":641.615,"start":640.907}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"It felt like someone was like ripping something from the inside of your body.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":653.52,"start":648.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Yeah, which is --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":655.14,"start":653.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"What they are doing, yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":657.03,"start":655.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"That's what it felt like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":659.72,"start":657.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yeah, oh, I'm sorry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":663.12,"start":659.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But I remember almost immediately thinking, or almost daydreaming in that moment that the attending nurse had one tube going from my IV into my arm and another tube going from my IV into her pocket.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":677.67,"start":663.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Like, it occurred to me almost immediately that the nurse was stealing the fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":682.275,"start":677.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I remember telling my friends after the procedure, my friends who were aware of what I was going through, but who are also colleagues at Yale in addiction research, I remember telling them like, the nurse is stealing the fentanyl, because it seems so obvious to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":697.5,"start":684.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I mean, fentanyl is the most diverted drug in medical settings.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":701.16,"start":697.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"It's like a now major driver of the opioid crisis.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":705.09,"start":701.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And it was just really easy to imagine that someone with access to poorly controlled fentanyl would be abusing it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":711.93,"start":705.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"That's so fascinating that that's the image that raised itself up for you, because it is so evocative.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":722.73,"start":714.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because it is so evocative, and also, because it was true.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":727.85,"start":722.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A nurse at the clinic was stealing fentanyl, not Katie's nurse, not the tube in the pocket.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":734.32,"start":727.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But a nurse at the clinic was stealing fentanyl and replacing it with saline.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":738.64,"start":734.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She did so undetected for months, which meant patients weren't getting fentanyl in their IVs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":745.15,"start":738.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They were getting saltwater instead.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":747.61,"start":745.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 1^","text":"Drug addicted former nurse is sentenced for a crime that caused unbearable pain to dozens of women.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":753.94,"start":747.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 1^","text":"The nurse stole drugs and then replaced them with saline solution --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":757.5,"start":753.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 2^","text":"Connecticut nurse admits that she swapped out anesthesia drugs for saltwater, causing excruciating pain to women during infertility treatments.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":764.752,"start":757.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 3^","text":"It happened at a top-rated center affiliated --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":767.71,"start":764.752}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 4^","text":"Coming to you tonight with a horrible story about the extremes a fertility nurse struggling with drug addiction took to get her fix.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":776.47,"start":767.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A federal investigation determined that as many as 200 patients may have been victims of the substitution over five months in 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":785.26,"start":776.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Lawyers for some of the patients believe the real number is higher and this went on for longer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":790.99,"start":785.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I've talked to a dozen patients who believe they were victims of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":794.8,"start":790.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"11 of them are plaintiffs in a lawsuit against Yale, and their lawyers were present when we spoke.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":799.3,"start":794.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When I started doing these interviews, I was struck by the echoes in these women's stories.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":807.68,"start":802.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To me, it sounded like a chorus of women saying, something is wrong here, again and again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":813.78,"start":807.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients wondered how the clinic could have failed to detect this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":817.28,"start":813.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the conversations I was having made me wonder that too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":821.34,"start":817.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then I began talking to other people, staffers who'd been there, and I learned about what went on behind the scenes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":829.16,"start":821.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The staffers I spoke to were horrified by what the patients had experienced.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":833.69,"start":829.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They were grappling with their own questions about how this had happened, about what had gone amiss.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":840.44,"start":833.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients didn't know why they were in pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":843.3,"start":840.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Their doctors didn't know either.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":846,"start":843.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And in the absence of information about the true cause of the pain, people came up with stories to explain it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":853.52,"start":846}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients constructed stories about why they felt pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":856.97,"start":853.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Staffers at the clinic came up with theories too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":860.12,"start":856.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Eventually, the nurse would tell her own story about the pain, which would launch a whole new set of stories, the ones her friends and family would come up with, the one that would get argued in court, the one Yale would tell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":874.13,"start":860.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And all of these stories revealed something about women's pain, how it's tolerated, interpreted, accounted for, or minimized.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":883.33,"start":874.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In fertility treatment, you evaluate the outcomes by whether you wind up with a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":893.47,"start":887.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's the metric by which success is measured.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":896.2,"start":893.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It all went well if you leave with a live birth.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":899.83,"start":896.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The outcomes here are a lot more complicated for everyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":905.05,"start":899.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"From Serial Productions and \"The New York Times,\" I'm Susan Burton, and this is \"The Retrievals.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":911.68,"start":905.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is episode one, \"The Patients.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":914.5,"start":911.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":917.494,"start":914.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When the retrieval is over, the women are wheeled out to the recovery room.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":940.38,"start":935.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And one of the first things that happens is that they try to come up with an explanation for their pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":945.875,"start":940.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"They put you into the recovery room.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":947.75,"start":945.875}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And that's where you meet with whoever you were with.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":949.958,"start":947.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I just remember, that's when I had my phone back and I was texting my sister-in-law, because she was my confidant for all of this, having been through that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":958.88,"start":949.958}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And she was just replying, like, oh my god, how could you --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":962.09,"start":958.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"what do you mean you felt everything?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":964.46,"start":962.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I was just explaining to her, I'm like, I don't know what's wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":970.52,"start":964.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And one of the texts I said, I said, I think I'm immune to fentanyl, because I was like, I don't think it works on me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":976.94,"start":970.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"I'm not sensitive to fentanyl,\" is a common theory.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":980.69,"start":976.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And I remember when the procedure was done, my family sort of --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":984.62,"start":980.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"we have a family text that's ongoing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":987.68,"start":984.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And I just remember texting them that you know, it's hard to believe that we have a fentanyl epidemic where people are addicted, because it did nothing for me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1003.91,"start":987.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Not all of the women were alert during their procedures.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1006.94,"start":1003.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some were more deeply sedated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1009.28,"start":1006.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They were so out of it during the retrieval that they don't really remember it, or only kind of.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1014.71,"start":1009.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The pain hits when they come to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1017.77,"start":1014.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It was bad instantly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1019.18,"start":1017.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And it shouldn't really be bad instantly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1021.13,"start":1019.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Like, you shouldn't wake up and be in horrific, like nightmarish pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1026.65,"start":1021.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But I woke up and I was --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1028.53,"start":1026.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I mean like, it felt like someone had been inside me and gutted me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1033.76,"start":1028.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Yeah, it was like a gutted feeling.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1035.63,"start":1033.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It was someone had been inside me, scraped me hollow, it was burning.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1040.72,"start":1035.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In a way, it is more confusing for the wake up later patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1044.77,"start":1040.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They're not matching each stab of pain to the needle on the screen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1049.03,"start":1044.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It hurts a lot, but it's less explicable, and because of that, scarier.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1055.51,"start":1049.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Your mind just goes to the worst possible places.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1058.075,"start":1055.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"You know, I'm thinking, am I bleeding?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1063.01,"start":1058.075}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Am I bleeding internally?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1064.36,"start":1063.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Is this like, a pain is --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1066.04,"start":1064.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"normally, a pain is a sign.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1067.93,"start":1066.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"It's protective, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1069.04,"start":1067.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"It tells you something's wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1070.96,"start":1069.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's a lot of uncertainty in the recovery room, an elevated blood pressure, a nurse running around to get ginger ale, a doctor coming by to say, there are fewer eggs than we expected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1081.46,"start":1070.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Are you sure you only want us to fertilize half of them?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1084.82,"start":1081.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's all just very overwhelming.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1086.44,"start":1084.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And on top of it, some of the women feel like they're being rushed out of the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1090.91,"start":1086.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Julia is one of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1093.11,"start":1090.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I remember vomiting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1094.61,"start":1093.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"They were giving me some fluids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1097.13,"start":1094.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I was very uncomfortable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1102.2,"start":1097.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"There was no way I could walk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1103.94,"start":1102.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"They put me in a wheelchair and wheeled me out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1107.84,"start":1103.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I just had this feeling like, this is not right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1114.29,"start":1107.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Julia is 31 years old and already a college professor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1118.91,"start":1114.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This morning when her husband drove to the clinic, she'd been frantic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1122.45,"start":1118.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There was work on a bridge near their house and they got stuck.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1126.22,"start":1122.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's only a short window to retrieve the eggs before you ovulate them, and Julia was worried she would miss it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1133.03,"start":1126.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When she arrived at the clinic, she felt a huge relief, like, we made it, both we made it on time and we made it to this day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1142.62,"start":1133.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now, she's feeling something she never expected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1145.91,"start":1142.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At home, she goes upstairs and gets into bed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1149.48,"start":1145.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I fell asleep for a little while, and then I woke up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1153.98,"start":1149.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I was nervous.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1155.84,"start":1153.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"We had a babysitter here watching my daughter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1160.01,"start":1155.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I just wake -- you wake up, you're like, oh my god, who's with my kid?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1164.24,"start":1160.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I need to --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1166.43,"start":1164.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"and I walked a few steps to try and go down the stairs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1171.11,"start":1166.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I realized I really had gone too far from the bed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1175.31,"start":1171.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"By this point, the pain was excruciating, I would say.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1180.29,"start":1175.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I turned to go back to lay down on my bed again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1185.33,"start":1180.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I mean, I don't remember this, but I blacked out or passed out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1191,"start":1185.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I woke up on the floor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1194.45,"start":1191}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I kind of busted my lip open.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1200.03,"start":1194.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Julia calls the clinic, and they tell her that she should go to the ER.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1204.35,"start":1200.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's in so much pain that she can't bend enough to get into a car.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1208.43,"start":1204.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"An ambulance is called.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1209.96,"start":1208.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And when Julia gets to the hospital, they check her out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1213.74,"start":1209.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The retrieval is a safe procedure, but things can go wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1217.97,"start":1213.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Your ovary can strangulated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1219.95,"start":1217.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A major artery can get punctured.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1222.39,"start":1219.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But none of the obvious things are wrong and nobody can explain what is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1227.61,"start":1222.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Back home over the weekend, Julia calls on-call doctor at the clinic multiple times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1232.89,"start":1227.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"By Sunday, I sort of got the sense I was annoying him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1236.91,"start":1232.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Julia keeps waiting for a call from her official doctor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1240.49,"start":1236.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"By Tuesday, she still hasn't heard from him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1243.13,"start":1240.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It was impossible for me to understand how he hadn't called me by this point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1248.24,"start":1243.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"But I called his office on Tuesday basically saying, I need to talk to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1256.39,"start":1248.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I wrote down what he said, and I've kept this note since that time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1261.04,"start":1256.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"He said he was not alarmed, but perplexed and surprised at my experience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1270.34,"start":1261.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Those words I guess, ring pretty hollow now, right, knowing that there was a pattern of many women who had extreme, inexplicable pain after the egg retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1287.11,"start":1270.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What did you make of that language like, in the moment, perplexed and surprised?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1291.71,"start":1287.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It was --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1299.84,"start":1297.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I mean, I guess I felt crazy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1311.6,"start":1299.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I mean, I felt --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1315.23,"start":1311.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I mean, by this point, I'm asking myself like, am I being difficult?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1321.26,"start":1315.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I mean, am I --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1322.325,"start":1321.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I mean, you just question your sense of self, like your ability to assess your situation rationally, which is very disconcerting when that happens, because at least at the end of the day, you have that, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1341.01,"start":1322.325}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"You start thinking about your whole life, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1343.37,"start":1341.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Like, I'm a pretty high-energy person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1346.07,"start":1343.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Like, I take care of a toddler.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1347.75,"start":1346.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I have a PhD.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1348.74,"start":1347.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I have a job.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1349.61,"start":1348.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Like, I run marathons in my free time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1353.33,"start":1349.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Like, you have all these parts of your life that make you feel --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1358.46,"start":1353.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"that give you this sense of who you are.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1360.77,"start":1358.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And then I just felt like they were treating me like I was nuts for still being in pain and just having what I would call a difficult time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1377.48,"start":1360.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I just left the office, I mean, crying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1383.575,"start":1377.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I just felt like nobody, nobody cares.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1388.43,"start":1383.575}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"That's the way I would describe how I felt in the days after, like nobody gives a crap that this was so hard for me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1400.05,"start":1388.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In the days after the retrieval, other patients live out versions of the same story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1409.29,"start":1403.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They also call the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1411.53,"start":1409.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They ask, is this normal?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1413.66,"start":1411.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They say, the Tylenol isn't helping.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1417.08,"start":1413.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At home, they're laid up on the couch.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1419.03,"start":1417.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They can't pick up their toddler.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1421.13,"start":1419.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They wonder if they really should have scheduled themselves for a shift the next day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1424.82,"start":1421.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1427.305,"start":1424.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Not all staffers at the clinic are dismissive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1434.35,"start":1431.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But even when they respond with concern, there aren't any real answers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1439.17,"start":1434.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of these conversations take place days after the procedure, like at follow ups to talk about next steps.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1445.365,"start":1439.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"You didn't really talk to the office until day five or day six, which is when I found out that none of the eggs had survived, none were healthy enough to go to testing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1458.88,"start":1445.375}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And we had to talk about moving forward.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1461.59,"start":1458.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And that's when I really expressed my sort of shock that the procedure was as painful as it was and talked about, if there were other pain management protocols that could be considered at that point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1480.55,"start":1461.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And I was told that that was the best pain medication that was available.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1490.44,"start":1480.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And my doctor prescribed me an anxiety medication to take before the next procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1499.98,"start":1490.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And I remember saying to my husband, you know, I think it's strange because I'm not anxious about a medical procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1509.37,"start":1499.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"It was the pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1510.96,"start":1509.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"It was severe pain, not anxiety about going into it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1514.68,"start":1510.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"The next time that I saw my doctor, he asked me how the procedure went.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1521.87,"start":1517.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"And I said, it was really, really painful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1524.78,"start":1521.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"And he was kind of like a little bit concerned, but then he just didn't say anything after that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1530.25,"start":1524.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"So I was like, OK, I guess -- and this was my first time doing it, so I didn't know any better.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1535.17,"start":1530.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"So I was like, OK, I guess it's supposed to be painful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1538.58,"start":1535.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Other women are talking about what happened with family and friends.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1542.16,"start":1538.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"So at that point, I had talked to a couple of family members who had done retrievals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1549.59,"start":1542.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I felt even worse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1553.91,"start":1549.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"There's nothing like feeling shame from another female, and unintentional too, like, that just seems weird because I was wheeled back there and joked with the staff and then fell asleep and woke up and was fine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1574.13,"start":1553.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And that seemed to be the general consensus between procedures at different clinics -- that oh, yeah, I was kind of alert, but I didn't feel anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1583.83,"start":1574.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It was really no big deal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1585.05,"start":1583.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Like, the shots ahead of time were way worse than the actual procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1590.01,"start":1585.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I started shutting down after hearing those stories, that this was on me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1595.28,"start":1590.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Like, something wasn't right with my tolerance and my ability to handle this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1600.23,"start":1595.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1603.176,"start":1600.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women are already settling on their stories about what happened to them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1614.52,"start":1610.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm immune to fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1616.5,"start":1614.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's my fault. It's supposed to be painful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1620.97,"start":1616.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The clinic tells patients that they may experience mild discomfort.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1625.68,"start":1620.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But now, some of them have recalibrated their expectations, including Lynn, who will have eight retrievals at the clinic, all of them will cause her excruciating pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1636.54,"start":1625.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"You know, again, you hear about IVF and how tough of a process it is mentally and physically.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1645.15,"start":1636.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And I just thought, this is what I have to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1649.58,"start":1645.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"This is what I have to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1651.54,"start":1649.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And sort of, just thought, this is what women go through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1655.34,"start":1651.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"[SOMBER MUSIC]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1658.232,"start":1655.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale declined to offer information about how reports of pain were addressed at the clinic or to answer any other questions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1671.75,"start":1665.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Episode one of \"The Retrievals\" continues after the break.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1678.38,"start":1674.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Of the 12 patients I spoke to, most are white.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1691.32,"start":1687.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The one Black woman in the group was often the only Black woman in the clinic waiting room.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1695.92,"start":1691.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Everyone in the group identified as a woman.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1698.7,"start":1695.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"While a couple of them were pursuing pregnancy for the first time as they neared 40, most did not fit that stereotype.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1704.79,"start":1698.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Most were married to men, one to a woman.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1708.3,"start":1704.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That patient would provide the eggs, and her wife would carry the pregnancy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1712.59,"start":1708.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her wife presents as more stereotypically masculine, doesn't wear women's clothing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1716.94,"start":1712.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And at first, family members were like, are you sure you want to do it this way?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1721.23,"start":1716.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yes, they were sure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1723.12,"start":1721.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One was doing this on her own at 41 after the end of a long relationship.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1727.68,"start":1723.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another left her boyfriend partway through the process, and then fell in love with the new guy at the office.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1733.77,"start":1727.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One was born in Iran and came to the US as a refugee, another grew up in Jamaica.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1740.16,"start":1733.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One had what she described as a horrible childhood.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1742.8,"start":1740.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She essentially had to raise herself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1745.29,"start":1742.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another longed to have a second baby, because she was so close to all of her siblings.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1750.6,"start":1745.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One had type 1 diabetes, and was used to everyone always attributing all medical issues to, oh, it's your diabetes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1757.53,"start":1750.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"All of them worked --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1759.3,"start":1757.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"special ed teacher, an accountant at a Maritime firm, and a lecturer at Yale in the Department of American Studies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1768.6,"start":1759.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her name is Leah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1770.61,"start":1768.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her scholarship encompasses a variety of subjects, exile and migration -- she's the patient who came to the US as a refugee from Iran --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1779.8,"start":1770.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"and gender.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1782.02,"start":1779.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"From the beginning of her treatment, Leah located her experience within a context of assumptions about women patients, that they are unreliable narrators of their own symptoms, that they are anxious, exaggerating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1795.19,"start":1782.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But I remember the first time I went in there to get ready for the ultrasound, there was blood on the floor from a previous person's ultrasound.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1803.17,"start":1795.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I have to tell you, it was as ominous as the signs fucking come.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1809.08,"start":1803.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I just remember, Navid was with me, I think.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1813.19,"start":1809.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Was Navid with me?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1815.762,"start":1813.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Oh no, he couldn't go inside.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1816.97,"start":1815.762}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"He was waiting in the car.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1818.053,"start":1816.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"My husband was waiting in the car.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1820.54,"start":1818.053}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was just shaking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1821.53,"start":1820.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was like, this isn't good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1823.43,"start":1821.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I mean, it was like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1824.71,"start":1823.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"it was like, you walk in and I was like, there's blood?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1828.91,"start":1824.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You guys left blood over?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1831.32,"start":1828.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"What is going on here?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1832.355,"start":1831.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Did you did you say anything?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1834.23,"start":1832.355}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Like, did you say that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1835.188,"start":1834.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But here's the thing, and this is where it begins, is you are treated like a hysterical woman from the second you walk in there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1845.22,"start":1835.188}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"So you already know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1846.59,"start":1845.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And as like a person who --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1850.19,"start":1846.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"like, I study this stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1851.88,"start":1850.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I teach this stuff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1853.28,"start":1851.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And you're there, and you're like, this is actually what's happening right now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1859.94,"start":1853.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Here comes like Freud's patient, the hysterical woman who's childless and angry and hormonal and terrified and bitchy and mean.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1873.05,"start":1859.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And that's how we're going to treat her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1876.41,"start":1873.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Hysteria comes from the Greek word for uterus.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1880.1,"start":1876.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Ancient explanations for it involve an empty uterus, a woman was hysterical because her uterus was not full.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1887.63,"start":1880.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Unanchored, the uterus roved through the body, which was what made women sick and crazy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1894.98,"start":1887.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To fix hysteria, you really needed to fill that uterus up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1899.06,"start":1894.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Like so with the blood, I remember being like, there's blood on the floor, you know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1902.99,"start":1899.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was really upset.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1903.89,"start":1902.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And they're like, OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1905.06,"start":1903.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"OK, I mean, it's --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1907.63,"start":1905.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"it turned right back on me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1909.3,"start":1907.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I remember one of the nurses was like, OK, well, you can calm down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1912.74,"start":1909.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was told to calm down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1914.51,"start":1912.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I mean, and then when they're doing the ultrasounds, of course, someone's doing a transvaginal ultrasound, so there's literally like this stick that's inside of you and they're moving it around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1925.35,"start":1914.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And if you cringe, OK, it'll just be like another -- it's just another second.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1930.56,"start":1925.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"OK, just be patient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1932.16,"start":1930.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"So you're constantly over-emphasizing or overdramatizing what's happening.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1938.7,"start":1932.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It's not that big of a deal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1940.97,"start":1938.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah felt like her doctor wasn't listening to her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1944.04,"start":1940.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She also didn't trust her assigned nurse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1946.73,"start":1944.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Then came Leah's first retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1948.47,"start":1946.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She felt her pain wasn't taken seriously by anyone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1951.45,"start":1948.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She says they all blew her off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1953.81,"start":1951.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah wasn't happy with her treatment, but she decided to continue.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1958.1,"start":1953.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Here I was, I saw it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1961.31,"start":1958.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I felt it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1962.15,"start":1961.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was alarmed by it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1963.74,"start":1962.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But I kept going because I wanted to have a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1968.34,"start":1963.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah asked for a new doctor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1970.9,"start":1968.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He oversaw her next cycle, and soon, she went in for another retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1976.13,"start":1970.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Right after you're in that room, the anesthesiologist came up to me and she said, you know what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1981.71,"start":1976.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You were waking up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1983.42,"start":1981.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You were waking up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1984.83,"start":1983.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"We had to give you some more meds.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1986.66,"start":1984.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You know, you were waking up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1989.8,"start":1986.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"So again, you, your body, you were nervous, you were agitated, you burdened us, you're kind of uncontrollable body put us in a position where we actually had to give you more drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2004.41,"start":1989.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You were waking up so we had to give you more fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2009.22,"start":2004.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I was like, oh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2011.68,"start":2009.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But again, to them, to them, I'm this woman who's already like on edge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2017.53,"start":2011.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I already left the doctor because I didn't like the doctor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2021.91,"start":2017.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"So the other physicians and the other nurses all know this about me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2027.34,"start":2021.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I'm a kind of already unruly, perhaps entitled, overly needy woman, who's just really angry that she doesn't have a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2044.51,"start":2027.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's a balance you have to strike as a woman patient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2047.705,"start":2044.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You have to complain just the right amount to be taken seriously, but not so much that you seem shrill.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2054.12,"start":2047.705}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Still, your pain is more likely to be underestimated than men's.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2058.989,"start":2054.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Black women are more likely to have their pain ignored no matter what they do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2063.82,"start":2058.989}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"All of this, we know from the literature, and also from life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2068.58,"start":2063.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In my life, I've been the kind of patient where if I've ever spoken up, I felt like I needed to be obsequious later to protect myself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2076.02,"start":2068.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That is what I felt I needed to perform.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2079.23,"start":2076.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah knew she'd need to perform a whole range of things in order to get help --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2083.55,"start":2079.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"stern, docile, smart, stupid, agreeable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2088,"start":2083.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And now, on a gurney in the recovery room, Leah became an observer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2092.949,"start":2088.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She would remember what was happening.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2095.38,"start":2092.949}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She would write about this one day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2097.72,"start":2095.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She tuned into the language and to the emphasis that to her, seemed so interesting and fucked up, into the syntax that seemed to place the blame on her body.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2106.66,"start":2097.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But at the same time, Leah had also internalized the narrative that her body was to blame, her body was inadequate, deficient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2114.82,"start":2106.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That was why she was here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2116.8,"start":2114.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her body had had miscarriages.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2119.14,"start":2116.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her body didn't make enough eggs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2121.63,"start":2119.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her body couldn't cooperate long enough to get through a critical procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2125.44,"start":2121.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Oh god, my body -- like, here it goes again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2129.4,"start":2125.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Not only can I not like have a baby, I also can't even just lay still with the right amount of fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2139.3,"start":2129.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In this moment, and throughout her treatment, Leah was simultaneously the writer saying, I can name what's happening here, and the patient saying, how could I have let this happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2152.67,"start":2139.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Other women occupied their own versions of this position.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2156.62,"start":2152.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Their professional identities offered them one kind of story about these events.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2161.21,"start":2156.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Their identities as patients directed them to another.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2165.81,"start":2161.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Several of them had an area of expertise that was directly applicable here in a way that is kind of uncanny.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2172.95,"start":2165.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For example, there are multiple patients who work in health care, including one who's designed systems for the safe storage of medications.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2180.84,"start":2172.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's a nurse anesthetist.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2182.94,"start":2180.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She thought the anesthesia was the one part of fertility treatment she wouldn't have to worry about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2188.58,"start":2182.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And of course, there's the addiction researcher, Katie, who had the prophetic fantasy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2194.58,"start":2188.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What's unique about you is that not only did something was wrong, you knew exactly what was wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2202.48,"start":2194.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2203.61,"start":2202.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Yet still, you constructed like, this other narrative to explain it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2208.44,"start":2203.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2210.08,"start":2208.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Like other patients, Katie had expertise that gave her knowledge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2214.6,"start":2210.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But she and others pushed that knowledge aside.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2217.8,"start":2214.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They decided not to know what they knew in order to keep going.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2222.73,"start":2217.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I wanted Katie to lay out the path to that cognitive dissonance.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2226.78,"start":2222.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I wanted her to explain exactly how she got from one story to the other.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2231.23,"start":2226.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I mean, as I've told you, like, I came out of that procedure, and I immediately --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2236.38,"start":2231.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I remember immediately texting my friends who are also colleagues in addiction research at Yale, like the nurse is stealing the fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2243.01,"start":2236.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"It just seemed so obvious.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2245.32,"start":2243.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But then, you sort come out of this --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2248.93,"start":2245.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I remember just coming out of the shock and recovering from the procedure and things just go on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2254.065,"start":2248.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"No one is addressing the fact that I was sober during the procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2262.42,"start":2257.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I remember violently shaking in recovery from the shock.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2268.15,"start":2262.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I don't know that that's related to having the procedure with or without fentanyl, but that's how my body responded.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2274.6,"start":2268.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And my nurse was there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2276.92,"start":2274.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I remember her saying, something like, I think it was so painful because we got so many eggs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2283.3,"start":2276.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And so it was just sort of this positive, kind of false narrative about what had happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2291.32,"start":2283.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And so then I think I coped by coming up with an alternate explanation, which was that I do remember waking up during my --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2300.82,"start":2291.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"having my wisdom teeth being pulled when I was a kid, to the nurse saying, shit, shit, and then giving me more drugs, putting me back under.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2308.08,"start":2300.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"So the other explanation for me was that maybe I'm not sensitive to certain opiates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2313.84,"start":2308.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, and I remember also that kind of became my narrative with --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2317.56,"start":2313.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"my friends and colleagues kind of remember me sort of switching to that narrative and saying like, well, maybe you're not sensitive to fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2325.93,"start":2317.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"So I started to kind of just tell myself a story about my pain, just try to understand -- it's a way of just understanding my experience and thinking, yeah, maybe this is what happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2339.955,"start":2325.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The story becomes a way, not only to explain pain, but to cope with it, a way to not only make sense of the pain, but to manage it, to tamp it down, get through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2355.13,"start":2343.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In this way, the story becomes the medicine that the patients weren't given.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2359.63,"start":2355.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[SOMBER MUSIC]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2362.528,"start":2359.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women gear up for second, third retrievals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2371.64,"start":2368.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They change their diets.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2373.14,"start":2371.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They cut chemicals out of their home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2375.12,"start":2373.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They read the books the nurses recommend, or they get ready for embryo transfers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2379.95,"start":2375.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They make reservations at a hotel in town so that they won't have to drive home over a bumpy road.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2385.86,"start":2379.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Despite these efforts, some of the women miscarry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2390.06,"start":2385.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One woman wakes up about 10 days after her embryo transfer with some spotting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2395.61,"start":2390.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"Don't think anything of that yet,\" a nurse reassures her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2399.69,"start":2395.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But the pregnancy test comes back negative.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2403.02,"start":2399.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"When do you think you might want to get started again,\" her doctor asks her at a virtual follow-up appointment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2408.93,"start":2403.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"I'm not ready,\" the patient says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2412.05,"start":2408.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She closes the telehealth, and that's the last time she talks to the doctor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2416.5,"start":2412.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She never goes back to that clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2418.83,"start":2416.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She stops fertility treatment and doesn't know when or if she will ever resume it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2424.71,"start":2418.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She never wants to go through an egg retrieval again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2427.23,"start":2424.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[SOMBER MUSIC]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2430.2,"start":2427.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Fertility treatment doesn't always result in a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2442.41,"start":2439.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's not just giving yourself shots that's hard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2444.81,"start":2442.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's the cycle of hope and loss.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2447.27,"start":2444.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It just clobbers you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2449.4,"start":2447.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the longer you stay in it, the more the drugs mess with your head.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2454.51,"start":2449.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"It's called the 'Clomid Crazies' for a reason,\" one of the women tells me, \"and the money, always the money.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2461.56,"start":2454.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If your insurance covers this, it probably only covers a few cycles.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2465.88,"start":2461.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's so much pressure on each one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2468.55,"start":2465.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Once you have to pay out of pocket, you're talking maybe $15K for one cycle.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2473.05,"start":2468.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And that's the low end.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2475.72,"start":2473.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of the women are keeping their treatment secret.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2478.51,"start":2475.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of them can't even tell her own mother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2481.95,"start":2478.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"It's hard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2482.97,"start":2481.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's hard to begin with, even without this extra layer that's been added on to this now --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2488.17,"start":2482.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"the pain, and the fear of more of it.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2492.25,"start":2488.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"The first time I went in clueless, thinking you're not going to feel a thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2496.25,"start":2492.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So I think the second time, I had a lot more anxiety.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2500.86,"start":2496.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Laura doesn't get as many eggs as she hoped for the first time around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2505.13,"start":2500.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's urgent that she start cancer treatment and the doctors accelerate her cycle.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2510.17,"start":2505.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her second retrieval is scheduled for barely more than two weeks after her first.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2515.33,"start":2510.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That morning, Laura's mother drives her to the clinic and sits in the waiting room while Laura goes back for the procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2521.84,"start":2515.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I was shocked.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2523.8,"start":2521.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I was shocked again that it was the same situation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2526.1,"start":2523.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I'm thrusting my hips and telling these -- like, wide awake speaking to them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2531.013,"start":2526.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I was just like, I feel everything you're doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2533.18,"start":2531.013}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And that was when I --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2534.097,"start":2533.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I remember actually saying to them, I could drive myself home right now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2537.17,"start":2534.097}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I'm that alert.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2538.61,"start":2537.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In the recovery room, Laura gets her phone back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2541.62,"start":2538.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And just like last time, texts her sister-in-law.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2544.95,"start":2541.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Then she sees her mom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2546.78,"start":2544.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She tells them both how much pain she's in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2548.99,"start":2546.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So my sister-in-law right away was like, oh my god, I cannot believe you felt that again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2553.073,"start":2549}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But my mom, she just felt --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2555.65,"start":2553.073}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"it's hard, because she had seen me go through so much as it was with the cancer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2560.58,"start":2555.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Any mother who has to live watching their daughter go through that --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2566.4,"start":2560.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"and then for me to tell her, this was supposed to be a special moment because we're preserving my fertility and --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2572.57,"start":2566.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I'm sorry -- and for her to see that, it hurts her to see me in pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2580.61,"start":2572.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"You know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2583.52,"start":2580.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"You know, and I was just like, well, thank god.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2585.57,"start":2583.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I think this was the last time I had to do that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2587.775,"start":2585.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What did the two of you do like the rest of that day?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2595.35,"start":2592.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Did she drive you home?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2597.36,"start":2595.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Yeah, she drove me home and she stayed with me, because she had already been staying with me a lot during the day after my surgeries because I couldn't even --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2607.14,"start":2597.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"at that point, I still wasn't allowed to lift more than 5 pounds because I was still recovering from the other surgeries.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2614.88,"start":2607.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So yeah, she was with me and made me lunch and comforted me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2620.43,"start":2614.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"We were like, OK, so now we just go back to waiting and hoping we get a good number.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2627.72,"start":2620.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I just moved on from it, because I faced many more surgeries that year as well.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2634.47,"start":2627.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So I kind of had to just switch back into survival mode.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2638.22,"start":2634.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Like, OK, now we just battle the next thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2640.54,"start":2638.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"In the other surgeries you had, cancer-related surgeries, like, what were your experiences of pain like?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2651.75,"start":2643.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It's actually interesting that you bring that up, because when I did have my double mastectomy, I was hospitalized --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2658.65,"start":2651.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I think I was in for a day or two days.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2661.11,"start":2658.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And strangely enough, the night nurse forgot to give me morphine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2667.26,"start":2661.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So I actually was awake and in pain the entire night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2670.05,"start":2667.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I have a gluten allergy, so they couldn't feed me anything because the kitchen was closed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2674.53,"start":2670.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So I spent the entire night like vomiting because they couldn't -- they were trying to give me like Percocets or something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2680.56,"start":2674.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And so I know what pain feels like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2684.213,"start":2680.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And the next morning, the doctor goes, I don't understand why she didn't give it to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2687.88,"start":2684.213}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It was in the order.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2688.8,"start":2687.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I had a really young nurse, whatever.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2690.54,"start":2688.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"This is completely unrelated to that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2692.16,"start":2690.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But you know, I know what pain feels like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2694.38,"start":2692.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I've been through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2696.94,"start":2694.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And then when I was hospitalized at Christmas, that's funny that you bring that up, because my sister-in-law actually had pointed out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2704.82,"start":2696.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"She goes, do you remember when you kept telling me were immune to fentanyl?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2709,"start":2704.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"She goes, when I did a search on my phone --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2710.88,"start":2709}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I guess you can -- she's really savvy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2712.53,"start":2710.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"You can type in like, \"fentanyl\" in text messages, and it'll bring up every conversation -- she goes, I actually found one from when you were hospitalized at Christmas saying that you were on fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2724.59,"start":2712.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I guess she had sent me a picture of her Christmas tree.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2727.2,"start":2724.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I had made a comment like, oh my god, did your house burn down?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2732.265,"start":2727.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And she was like, what are you talking about?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2734.14,"start":2732.265}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I said, I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2735.182,"start":2734.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"The nurse just gave me fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2736.69,"start":2735.182}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And so she goes, look, Laura, so it does work on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2739.832,"start":2736.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Oh Wow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2740.79,"start":2739.832}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"You know, and this was a month prior.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2742.8,"start":2740.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And that didn't even dawn on me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2744.93,"start":2742.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Like, oh my god.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2747.6,"start":2744.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But when it came time for the other thing, I was just like, oh, it must not work on me, because I just felt like nobody had heard what I was saying, so it just didn't exist.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2759.52,"start":2747.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It was in my head, you know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2761.5,"start":2759.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So yeah, so I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2763.34,"start":2761.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Was I foolish, because I didn't like dispute it more?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2766.63,"start":2763.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Maybe not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2767.14,"start":2766.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2768.19,"start":2767.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But like, I believe them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2769.54,"start":2768.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"You trust them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2770.38,"start":2769.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Months pass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2776.73,"start":2775.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of the women get pregnant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2778.68,"start":2776.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Others are still trying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2780.84,"start":2778.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of them are still showing up at that clinic for blood draws when they open their mailboxes in December 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2789.32,"start":2780.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Christmas was on a Friday of 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2793.64,"start":2789.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And the mail arrived on Thursday.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2797.12,"start":2793.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It was Christmas Eve, and I was busy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2801.23,"start":2797.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I just thought, I'm not going to go get the mail today.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2806.46,"start":2801.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I waited until Monday the 28th.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2811.19,"start":2806.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And it was a nice day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2813.025,"start":2811.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I went outside.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2813.65,"start":2813.025}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I got the mail.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2814.4,"start":2813.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And you know, I got this letter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2817.82,"start":2814.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"So I got this letter in the mail.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2820.23,"start":2817.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It's nothing fancy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2821.63,"start":2820.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It's a Yale envelope.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2824.87,"start":2821.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I'm assuming it's a bill.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2826.85,"start":2824.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"The bills never stop coming with IVF.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2829.94,"start":2826.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You get so much when you work at Yale, also, you just get like Yale-emblazoned mail.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2836,"start":2829.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And so you're like, oh, OK, whatever.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2838.79,"start":2836}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It was like this thin thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2840.11,"start":2838.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I was like, oh, they changed locations or something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2844.25,"start":2840.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It's like, this is not important.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2849.05,"start":2844.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And instead of just setting it aside, I happened to open it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2852.89,"start":2849.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I was furious.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2857.57,"start":2852.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And it says, \"Dear Kathleen Garrison, I'm writing to you in my role as director of Yale Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility to let that we have learned of an event that may have involved your care.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2868.82,"start":2857.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"You know, that they've become aware that the nurse was switching out the fentanyl with the saline.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2877.22,"start":2868.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"\"A few weeks ago, we learned that on multiple occasions, a Yale fertility center nurse replaced fentanyl, a routinely used narcotic medication, with a normal salt solution, saline, in some medication vials.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2889.7,"start":2877.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"As a result, some patients may have received saline instead of the intended narcotic medication during their procedures.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2895.79,"start":2889.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"While there's no reason to believe that this event has had any negative effect on your health or the outcome of the care that you received, we believe that you should be informed.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2908.2,"start":2898.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"They make the stupid comment in the letter that there was no harm done from this happening.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2918.58,"start":2908.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I don't know if Hall was home or I called her, and I was like, bullshit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2924.94,"start":2918.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"No harm done?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2927.46,"start":2924.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Don't send me a letter and tell me that we're confident no one's outcomes were affected by this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2934.38,"start":2927.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I know my outcomes were affected by this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2936.86,"start":2934.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I know what I experienced and went through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2940.338,"start":2936.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"But Yale wasn't going to help me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2942.13,"start":2940.338}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"They didn't think there was harm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2943.51,"start":2942.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"They didn't think it was a problem.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2946.72,"start":2943.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It was the most --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2948.4,"start":2946.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"honestly, I think it was one of the most disrespectful ways they probably could have notified any of us that it had happened, that oh, we had this little breach and you're fine, no biggie.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2959.83,"start":2948.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Go about your day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2961.96,"start":2959.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Again, no one reached out to talk with us or to see what we experienced as patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2969.36,"start":2961.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"My only communication about it was through the letter, and that's still to this day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2976.81,"start":2969.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And yet, in addition to fury, there's also vindication.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2980.82,"start":2976.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When they learn the news, however they learn it, the women text their twin sister, or run inside to their husband, or weep in their kitchen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2990.3,"start":2980.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It was mind blowing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2991.678,"start":2990.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I immediately called my mother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2992.97,"start":2991.678}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I immediately called my sister-in-law.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2994.553,"start":2992.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I'm like, oh, like, I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2996.692,"start":2994.553}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Something, it just hit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2997.65,"start":2996.692}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Like, it all makes sense now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2999.81,"start":2997.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And it was like, OK, it all makes sense.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3002.64,"start":2999.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"It was almost a relief --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3005.81,"start":3002.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"a relief to know like, I'm not crazy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3009.68,"start":3005.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"There's nothing wrong with my body.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3011.82,"start":3009.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I don't have something like, blocking opioids or where my body is wrong and doesn't react to medicine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3022.28,"start":3011.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But it also shows how much they ignored my pleas for help and saying like, nobody believed me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3033.53,"start":3022.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So in a sense, it was like relief, just knowing that what I felt was real.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3042.15,"start":3033.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But there's more.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3043.95,"start":3042.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The letter continues.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3045.63,"start":3043.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"\"The law enforcement investigation and our own review have found no reason to believe that you were exposed to an infection due to this event.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3053.61,"start":3045.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Even so, we can appreciate that you may want further reassurance.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3057.09,"start":3053.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And if you wish, we will arrange for you to be tested for a group of bloodborne infections at no charge.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3063.25,"start":3057.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I was like, what the fuck?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3065.625,"start":3063.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"You know, those words, not alarm, but \"perplexed\" and \"surprised\" came back to me, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3075.93,"start":3070.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And you just feel like, so completely let down by this institution that's supposed to make you feel safe, and I mean, keep you safe, right, an institution that's supposed to keep you safe.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3093.03,"start":3075.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"That was gone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3096.78,"start":3093.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But maybe the most remarkable thing about the letter is the way it addresses pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3102.46,"start":3096.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It seems to be saying, you did not feel what you felt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3107.14,"start":3102.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"\"I also want to assure you that the fertility center routinely uses a combination of pain medications during procedures.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3113.4,"start":3107.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"We closely monitor patients for signs of discomfort during every procedure and adjust medications or add medications as needed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3121.33,"start":3113.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"In this way, we can be confident that our patients stay comfortable, even if one medication is not working.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3127.77,"start":3121.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Well, I don't believe that accurately describes my experience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3132.84,"start":3127.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And then it goes on to say, if you have any questions or want a blood test, here's who you can call.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3139.31,"start":3132.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women put the letter on the counter in shock.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3142.37,"start":3139.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For months they've been constructing their own stories about what happened to them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3146.51,"start":3142.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now they have Yale's story, which is that this is barely a story at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3151.87,"start":3146.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The questions the patients have been asking all along have a new focus.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3155.98,"start":3151.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"You know, as soon as I received that letter, it's like, how does this happen?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3160.75,"start":3155.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And how does it happen at Yale, a hospital system with such a great reputation?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3169.18,"start":3160.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And how did it happen for so long?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3173.57,"start":3169.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"So many things had to go wrong for this to happen as long as it did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3179.8,"start":3173.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"How does an entire facility let this happen?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3185.16,"start":3179.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Who trained them?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3186.56,"start":3185.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Who thought that this was OK?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3189.03,"start":3186.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I get sent home with --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3190.94,"start":3189.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I get packages in the mail with sharp needle containers and strict instructions and alcohol swabs and this crazy protocol that I'm expected to do at home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3202.5,"start":3190.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"They make you double check things.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3204.32,"start":3202.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Are there puncture marks?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3207.68,"start":3204.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Did I really spend more time following directions at home for hormone shots?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3214.22,"start":3207.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Like, where were they?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3216.71,"start":3214.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I think my immediate reaction was, you know what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3219.41,"start":3216.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"How could this happen at Yale?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3220.73,"start":3219.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Like, why wasn't there a better system in place to prevent it or detect it when it was happening and respond?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3226.46,"start":3220.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Why wasn't our pain listened to?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3229.78,"start":3226.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women wonder about the system that failed them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3233.23,"start":3229.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But there's something very intimate and human that they're wondering about too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3238.07,"start":3233.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"We were notified that it was a nurse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3240.25,"start":3238.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"We didn't have the name of the nurse in that original letter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3244.19,"start":3240.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And so it's sort of racing through your mind like, well, which nurse?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3248.83,"start":3244.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Because you build such a strong relationship with these people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3253.31,"start":3248.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And you see them so often, and you trust them, and you know, build a relationship.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3260.337,"start":3253.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And so you're thinking like, well, which nurse could this have been?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3263.17,"start":3260.337}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And then you're showing up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3264.85,"start":3263.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And OK, who's not here anymore?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3267.61,"start":3264.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Who's gone?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3268.51,"start":3267.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And just trying to figure out who it was.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3272.46,"start":3268.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients know what happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3280.36,"start":3277.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They're about to find out who did it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3283.22,"start":3280.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's next.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3284.08,"start":3283.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3287.056,"start":3284.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"The Retrievals\" is produced by me and Laura Starecheski.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3326,"start":3322.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Laura edited the series, with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3330.14,"start":3326}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Additional editing by Miki Meek, Katie Mingle, and Ira Glass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3334.13,"start":3330.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Research and fact checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3337.76,"start":3334.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Music supervision, sound design, and mixing by Phoebe Wang, with production help from Michelle Navarro.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3344.51,"start":3337.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Original music by Carla Pallone and music mixing by Thomas Poli.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3349.5,"start":3344.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Inde Chubu is a supervising producer for Serial Productions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3353.87,"start":3349.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At \"The New York Times,\" our standards editor, Susan Wessling, legal review by Dana Greene, art direction from Pablo Delcan, producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelley Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3368.27,"start":3353.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3371.09,"start":3368.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Special thanks to Dr. Marcelle Cedars, Calvin Hawker, Lisa Schuman, Kylie Silver, and Dr. Maggie Smith.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3379.49,"start":3371.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The\" Retrievals\" is a production of Serial Productions and \"The New York Times.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3384.61,"start":3379.49}}]},"credit":"","fileUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fnyt.simplecastaudio.com\u002F415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d\u002Fepisodes\u002Ffca3d57f-db30-4ef5-84e1-e16d0a29f024\u002Faudio\u002F128\u002Fdefault.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=fca3d57f-db30-4ef5-84e1-e16d0a29f024&nocache","firstPublished":"2023-06-29T10:00:03.000Z","headline":{"__typename":"CreativeWorkHeadline","default":"Episode 1: The Patients"},"id":"QXVkaW86bnl0Oi8vYXVkaW8vZmQwMGUzNjEtY2QyMi01ZDIyLWE5ZTMtM2NkMmRiYTI4YWM1","length":3391,"podcastSeries":{"__typename":"AudioPodcastSeries","image":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":75,"name":"thumbStandard","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2023\u002F06\u002F20\u002Fpodcasts\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art-thumbStandard.jpg","width":75},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2023\u002F06\u002F20\u002Fpodcasts\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art-thumbLarge.jpg","width":150}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvYjRjYzZhMDUtNzJiNC01MjFkLTg3OTAtOGRlNDIxMTQ1MTM2"},"name":"the-retrievals","summary":"They were women trying to become mothers. Their nurse was a mother whose life was falling apart. The doctors didn’t see what was happening to any of them until it was too late. \n\n\u002F\u002FDozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A (five-part) narrative series about the shocking events that unfolded there.","title":"The Retrievals"},"promotionalHeadline":"Episode 1: The Patients","section":{"__typename":"Section","id":"U2VjdGlvbjpueXQ6Ly9zZWN0aW9uLzExMDc5OTg3LWFlOGQtNWY1Zi04YzJlLThjNjZkMzM3ZDJiYQ==","name":"podcasts"},"sourceId":"100000008969932","summary":"","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002Ffd00e361-cd22-5d22-a9e3-3cd2dba28ac5"}},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":5},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"Patients at a fertility clinic experience excruciating, unexpected pain. For months the reason for that pain remains hidden. Then they get a letter from the clinic."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":true,"bad":false,"index":6},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At first, the nurse uses the fentanyl at work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":5.85,"start":3.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She takes vials from storage and injects herself in the bathroom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":9.96,"start":5.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Then, she starts taking the vials home --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":12.6,"start":9.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"a 30-minute drive to a Connecticut town in a more rural part of the state.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":17.23,"start":12.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is where she's raising her children, three of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":20.7,"start":17.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's a wealthy town, but not hedge-fund wealth.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":23.91,"start":20.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Kids go to public school and play little league.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":27.09,"start":23.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For a while, the nurse taught catechism at the church.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":29.415,"start":27.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The nurse is divorced from her children's father, who, according to court documents, is a volatile presence in their lives.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":42.74,"start":34.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The tooth fairy will be coming a lot, because I'm going to knock your teeth out, and maybe the ambulance will have to come, because your jawbones will break, is an example of the kind of thing the nurse claims the father has said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":55.2,"start":42.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"According to a police report, the father denies making this and all such threatening statements.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":61.25,"start":55.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But the children have said they are scared of him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":63.65,"start":61.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The nurse is scared when they are with him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":66.17,"start":63.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The nurse sees herself as the stable parent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":68.78,"start":66.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That is who she needs to be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":71.09,"start":68.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But now, she is doing this thing, this thing that she needs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":74.88,"start":71.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In fact, she needs it to remain stable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":76.94,"start":74.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sometimes she tries to stop, but she can't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":80.09,"start":76.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She can go for a couple of days without using.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":82.74,"start":80.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But as the withdrawal symptoms build, she starts again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":86.57,"start":82.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What she does is she removes the fentanyl from the vial with a syringe, and then replaces it with saline, one clear liquid with another.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":93.92,"start":86.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"No one can see.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":95.69,"start":93.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She does this uncountable times, and she returns an uncountable number of these vials that say they contain fentanyl, but actually contain saline, to the stock of drugs at work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":107.36,"start":95.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then, one day, October 31, 2020, an anesthesiologist notices that a cap comes off a vial too easily.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":116.15,"start":107.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The loose cap is discovered on a Friday, and the following Wednesday, the nurse is questioned.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":121.85,"start":116.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She denies taking the fentanyl, but when the results of her drug test come back positive, the nurse confesses.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":128.419,"start":121.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She is terminated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":131,"start":128.419}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In January 2021, law enforcement authorities send out a letter to approximately 200 patients at the Yale clinic, telling them they are, quote, \"a potential victim in a federal criminal case.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":143.72,"start":131.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How old-fashioned that news keeps arriving in the mail.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":148.19,"start":143.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But unlike the letter from Yale, this letter demands to be noticed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":152.24,"start":148.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's from the Department of Justice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":155,"start":152.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And this letter says the name of the nurse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":157.78,"start":155}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The name of the nurse is Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":160.03,"start":157.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Donna was the person handling all the phone calls.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":162.85,"start":160.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Donna was the person ordering your meds.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":165.19,"start":162.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Donna was the person you called when you were in pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":168.7,"start":165.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Donna was -- you know, it was all Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":170.83,"start":168.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"In fact, I had the number saved in my phone as Donna REI.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":176.59,"start":170.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"OK?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":178.12,"start":176.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna was not every patient's point person at the clinic, but for a time, she had been Leah's.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":183.82,"start":178.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The day Leah got the envelope from the Department of Justice, she brought it into her kitchen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":188.54,"start":183.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I remember opening it up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":190.97,"start":188.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It was like one page.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":193.58,"start":190.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I saw her name, and I, like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":198.87,"start":193.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I mean, I just, like, lost it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":200.41,"start":198.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was, like, weeping.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":203.09,"start":200.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah knew Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":204.81,"start":203.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But now that the nurse had a name, something was different for even the patients who'd never encountered her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":210.87,"start":204.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now, there was a distinct individual behind their pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":213.81,"start":210.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Who was she?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":215.31,"start":213.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients googled her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":217.44,"start":215.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One woman's husband noted that Donna had become a nurse when already in her 40s.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":221.82,"start":217.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What was up with that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":223.53,"start":221.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another patient zillowed her house.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":225.99,"start":223.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Someone else looked up whether her town had well water.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":228.69,"start":225.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":229.47,"start":228.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because how could anyone really be sure she'd replaced the fentanyl with saline?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":233.37,"start":229.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And what if she was just refilling the vial from her home tap?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":237.35,"start":233.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Others looked back at my chart messages.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":239.78,"start":237.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"You know, looking back, I know that I did correspond with Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":243.71,"start":239.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"We talked about medications at one point in my chart messages.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":249.12,"start":243.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"So I did correspond with her, and she did work with my insurance company to get fentanyl approved for the procedures and, I guess, ordered for the procedures.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":264.07,"start":249.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"After a pretty intense Google search, I am pretty certain that I met Donna the couple of times I was at the clinic doing the preliminary kind of testing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":276.73,"start":264.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients' identities had shaped the ways they'd made sense of their pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":281.17,"start":276.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now, their identities were shaping their reactions to the person who caused it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":286.21,"start":281.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What Angela was looking for had as much to do with her own identity as with Donna's.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":291.97,"start":286.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Sometimes I have a very hard time connecting with the idea of being a victim, especially in light of my job.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":300.01,"start":291.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"So I'm a criminal defense attorney for indigent persons, and there's always a reason why.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":308.266,"start":300.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Why did they steal this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":309.94,"start":308.266}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Why did this assault occur?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":312.07,"start":309.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Most people aren't just stealing things because it's funny.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":316.3,"start":312.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"There's an actual reason behind it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":318.31,"start":316.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I wanted desperately, I think, to give her a reason, so that I felt a little bit better.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":326.26,"start":318.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What would --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":327.49,"start":326.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"that's so interesting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":329.71,"start":327.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How would knowing or imagining her reason make you feel better?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":337.51,"start":329.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"When you're going through, I would assume, most fertility procedures, but with IVF for me, you're at your most vulnerable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":346.87,"start":337.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"You are physically laying your body on the line, saying, do what you need to do to correct, kind of, the brokenness that is me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":356.36,"start":346.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And so every step of the way, it's personal, and I've blamed myself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":360.91,"start":356.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I wanted to make this not personal, that she wasn't trying to punish me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":368.35,"start":360.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Whether it was twisted, however it was, I wanted her justification to feel worth it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":374.59,"start":368.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's justification wasn't going to be in Google, or whether she justified her actions at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":384.52,"start":378.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What was in her heart, how she would explain this, whether she was remorseful or callous --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":389.83,"start":384.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"that wasn't data Angela or any of the other patients were going to be able to find.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":395.65,"start":389.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients wanted to know not just who Donna was, but what her story was.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":400.54,"start":395.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What was the story Donna would tell about her own pain?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":404.29,"start":400.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How would she answer for what she had done?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":407.66,"start":404.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"From Serial Productions and \"The New York Times,\" I'm Susan Burton, and this is \"The Retrievals.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":413.33,"start":407.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is Episode 2, \"The Nurse.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":415.655,"start":413.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The Department of Justice invited the patients to a video conference to learn more about the case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":443.82,"start":438.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On a Thursday afternoon in late January, about 50 patients logged on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":448.68,"start":443.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Katie, the addiction researcher, was among them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":451.462,"start":448.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Yeah, I was at home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":452.67,"start":451.462}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, it was still sort of peak COVID, so I was on my laptop, signing into this call with the Department of Justice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":460.05,"start":452.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And very quickly, they were, kind of, letting us know, we're here to explain to you about the criminal case, and what's sort of at stake, and what your role might be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":470.04,"start":460.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"This call isn't necessarily a for us to get your stories.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":473.98,"start":470.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"We will talk to you and --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":476.55,"start":473.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"but for this moment, this isn't the place for us to necessarily tell our stories.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":480.78,"start":476.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But many women really needed to tell their stories, and that was really emotional.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":485.76,"start":480.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, I mean, I think people felt --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":488.18,"start":485.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"you feel really like you have to get this out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":491.91,"start":488.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I just --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":493.29,"start":491.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I heard other women who had nearly verbatim stories to mine, just being in this procedure, realizing in the moment that they were having this procedure sober, and even looking to their nurse and having their nurse say, I'm giving the most I can legally give you,","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":509.64,"start":493.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"and then getting kind of similar post-procedure false narratives about their pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":516.07,"start":509.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"So it was just really interesting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":518.53,"start":516.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I mean, it was devastating to hear that that's -- you know, I was shocked by how many women were on the call and how long this had sort of gone on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":529.97,"start":518.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I remember, like, I was like, I thought I would feel better hearing that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":533.69,"start":529.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I felt worse, actually.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":536.33,"start":533.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":537.813,"start":536.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah was on the call, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":539.48,"start":537.813}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Well, it doesn't -- you'd think that it would make you feel better knowing other people were in pain like you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":544.61,"start":539.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But you don't, actually.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":545.66,"start":544.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You feel worse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":546.77,"start":545.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You feel angrier.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":549.15,"start":546.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You feel more hurt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":550.71,"start":549.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It's more sad.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":553.27,"start":550.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"There was a woman who was talking about how she was screaming out during the surgery, but her voice --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":560.61,"start":553.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"you couldn't hear her voice.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":561.79,"start":560.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But she was like, her --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":564.24,"start":561.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"her mouth was open, and Donna's squeezing her hand, you know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":567.6,"start":564.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I still can't get that image out of my head, you know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":571.35,"start":567.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna had been in the room during some of the retrievals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":579.02,"start":575.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She had administered the saline herself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":582.5,"start":579.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Lynn wasn't on the call that day, but when she learned this, she was startled.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":587.18,"start":582.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I just remember thinking, you know, how sick she must be to be able to do that, and then watch the women suffer on the operating tables, knowing the reason why, and just sort of trying to figure that out -- how someone could do that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":612.23,"start":587.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"It's, you know, tough to comprehend.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":617.21,"start":612.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"These stories raised questions about how Donna had reconciled the patient's pain or didn't, how she split that off, how profoundly dissociated she would have needed to have been, how deep in her addiction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":634.79,"start":621.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In a way, these stories speak to the suffering of both parties.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":639.08,"start":634.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But it is possible to have empathy for addiction, and also find some of the interactions the patients recall chilling, like this exchange that one patient remembers having with Donna after her retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":651.05,"start":639.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And the next thing I remember is waking up in the recovery room.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":655.46,"start":651.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And I was in quite a bit of pain, a lot more pain than I ever would have expected for an egg retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":664.19,"start":655.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And Donna was my nurse, and I remember asking her if it's normal to be in that much pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":668.9,"start":664.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And she looked at me and said, yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":670.69,"start":668.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It's almost like watching a kind of, like, horror reel, where women are --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":683.33,"start":676.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"all of a sudden, everyone's kind of like, oh, yeah, I was worried.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":686.73,"start":683.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Oh, it was like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":689.09,"start":686.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"it was like kind of being bombarded by all these women who were told to shut the fuck up while they were experiencing something that they knew was wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":699.41,"start":689.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"That was what became alarmingly clear.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":703.67,"start":699.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"That became alarmingly clear to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":706.49,"start":703.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"People had complained that something was up with the fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":710.57,"start":706.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"People had complained about Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":712.64,"start":710.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"People had complained about the treatment by the physicians and the nurses.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":717.32,"start":712.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And you know, at a certain point, like, not everybody's crazy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":722.87,"start":717.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The people from the Department of Justice tell the patients where things are with Donna's case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":741.72,"start":736.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of the patients want to know about Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":744.3,"start":741.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Shouldn't Yale be responsible?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":746.75,"start":744.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But that's a different question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":748.64,"start":746.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That will be a different case, and not one the Department of Justice will handle.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":753.62,"start":748.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Right now, they're working on a plea deal with Donna, which means there will likely not be a trial, though there will be a sentencing hearing that the patients can attend.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":762.5,"start":753.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's possible Donna will be sent to prison.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":765.37,"start":762.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah isn't sure how she feels about this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":767.62,"start":765.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I had to think long and hard as a person, again, who teaches work on injustice, incarceration, trauma, et cetera, et cetera.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":780.43,"start":767.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I had to think about what it meant for me, as someone who'd been injured, victimized, hurt, abused, to then --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":794.294,"start":780.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"what I needed -- what I wanted the outcome to be for someone who had inflicted that on me and other people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":801.6,"start":794.294}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You know, there's this whole abolition movement going on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":804.25,"start":801.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"So you have to think, like, well, what do I --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":806.28,"start":804.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"do I want --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":806.94,"start":806.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"do I want to see this person in jail?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":809.01,"start":806.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"What do I want -- what do I want to have happen to Yale?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":811.86,"start":809.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"What is the right outcome?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":815.99,"start":811.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For months after that call, Leah would continue to wrestle with questions about the right outcome.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":822.06,"start":816}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For Katie, the addiction researcher, at least part of the right outcome was already clear.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":827.79,"start":822.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"During the call about the criminal case, my immediate take was more about the system, you know, Yale's responsibility, and what kind of system was in place or not in place that allowed this to happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":843.01,"start":827.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Why were we ignored when we were reporting pain --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":846.15,"start":843.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"so many of us over so much time?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":848.22,"start":846.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I wanted, at that time -- and I still want to be really careful and sensitive to the other people who are pursuing pregnancy, who were rightfully very upset with the nurse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":858,"start":848.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But for me, as someone who studies addiction and works with individuals with addiction, it was more important to me that the nurse got substance use treatment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":869.82,"start":858}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I don't really believe in prison for drug crimes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":872.73,"start":869.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I believe in substance use treatment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":875.94,"start":872.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"That was my immediate reaction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":878.61,"start":875.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I think that's very much founded in my research.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":882.42,"start":878.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Katie uses brain imaging to explore how pathways in the brain are altered by addiction and how people living with addiction have the power to rewire those pathways to change the way they think and behave.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":894.87,"start":882.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients wanted to know what was going on in Donna's head.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":898.45,"start":894.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Katie had a picture of that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":900.89,"start":898.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Katie's identity offered her clarity about how the criminal justice system should treat Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":906.47,"start":900.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And on that call, she learned that her perspective could be taken into account.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":911.56,"start":906.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients were told that they could submit victim impact letters to the judge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":915.94,"start":911.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Katie got to work on hers almost immediately.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":918.64,"start":915.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, I was careful in writing the letter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":921.16,"start":918.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, I say to you, like, I don't really believe in prison for drug crimes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":925.03,"start":921.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, I was chatting with my Yale Law professor friend whose house I stayed at after this egg retrieval, getting his advice on writing this letter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":932.5,"start":925.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, how can I write a letter to a judge that doesn't minimize my experience, but that --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":938.71,"start":932.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"he mentioned, you can't tell a judge that you don't believe in prison for drug crimes, because they do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":945.13,"start":938.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You know, what you can do is explain, based on your expertise and what you study and research, like, that you believe in substance use treatment and your preference for that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":958.46,"start":945.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"So yeah, I can read you this letter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":961.03,"start":958.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's not that Katie thought that addiction absolved Donna of responsibility for her actions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":965.87,"start":961.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She thought that Donna had a great deal of personal responsibility.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":969.49,"start":965.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Katie's argument is about what we do with that in the criminal justice system, where research shows that substance use treatment leads to better outcomes than incarceration.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":980.2,"start":969.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Katie finished her letter and sent it off.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":982.78,"start":980.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"\"And because of this, I ask for leniency in her sentencing, based on my understanding of addiction as a neuroscientist and addiction researcher.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":989.83,"start":982.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Thank you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":990.64,"start":989.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Kathleen Garrison.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":991.85,"start":990.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I want to read now from another letter to the judge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":999.93,"start":996.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"Dear Judge Hall, I'm respectfully writing to Your Honor in advance of my sentencing hearing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1006.11,"start":999.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In this letter, I'm hoping to explain to you what I have done that brings me before the court, the circumstances surrounding my actions, and to express the remorse that I feel for the crime that I have committed.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1019.74,"start":1006.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is Donna, of course.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1022.11,"start":1019.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The letter is a few pages long, and I'll say more about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1024.93,"start":1022.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But I'm stopping here to say that Donna has not responded to my many requests to speak with her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1029.96,"start":1024.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I've also not spoken at length with anyone who loves her or is close to her or who knows her outside of the clinic, also not for lack of trying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1040.28,"start":1029.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I've thought carefully about how to tell Donna's story without her participation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1045.77,"start":1040.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her case generated many documents that have become part of the public record, documents that include very personal information.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1053.03,"start":1045.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm choosing to tell a story that includes some of these details.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1057.44,"start":1053.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Who Donna is and what she was dealing with when she came to the clinic matter, especially because by her own telling, what she was dealing with was the reason she did what she did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1068.69,"start":1057.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna herself told a story about what happened, to investigators, to friends and family.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1080.63,"start":1074.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her friends and family, in turn, told their own stories.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1084.52,"start":1080.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm telling you about these stories, about how Donna and the people in her life explain these events.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1091.99,"start":1084.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of what I know about Donna comes from a sentencing memorandum prepared by Donna's public defender.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1098.75,"start":1092}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The memo includes more than 40 letters from friends and family, beginning with one from Donna's parents, and ending with testimonials from people Donna has met in recovery.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1109.2,"start":1098.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The sentencing memo was both an argument to keep Donna out of prison and an intimate look into her life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1116.19,"start":1109.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Here is how the memo lays that life out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1119.62,"start":1116.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna was born in 1971 and grew up in New York State, in a place kind of like the one she lives now --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1127.06,"start":1119.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"a comfortable town, but not a fancy one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1129.67,"start":1127.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Three siblings, lots of cousins, Catholic Church.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1133.27,"start":1129.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She went to a state school for college and waitressed when she was home on break.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1138.03,"start":1133.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She didn't get her nursing license until she was in her 40s, and by then, her life was complicated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1143.58,"start":1138.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She had three children -- the oldest two twins --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1146.43,"start":1143.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"and she was in and out of family court with her ex-husband, their father, over custody and visitation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1152.79,"start":1146.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There was DCF involvement, a finding of emotional neglect against the father.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1157.98,"start":1152.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna asked the court for protective orders.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1160.53,"start":1157.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For her, it was expensive and intensely stressful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1165.41,"start":1160.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna is described in the letters as a devoted mother and a good friend, as generous, tenacious, and trusted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1173.69,"start":1165.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Many of the letter-writers seem to be working to reconcile their astonishment at what Donna has done with the integrity of the person they know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1182.59,"start":1173.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One woman read an article about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1184.91,"start":1182.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the first time she read the article, she thought Donna was the one who caught the nurse stealing the drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1189.85,"start":1184.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Most of the letters describe this kind of initial shock, and then a quick move to support.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1198.7,"start":1192.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Thus, the letters where tension is allowed to exist stand out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1203.29,"start":1198.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The letter from Donna's parents is one that acknowledges complexity.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1208,"start":1203.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"We saw our daughter starting to break, but she always said she would be fine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1212.96,"start":1208.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Turns out, she was not fine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1215.2,"start":1212.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was with great sadness that we read her confession.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1218.41,"start":1215.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Our sadness turned to disbelief and anger.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1221.48,"start":1218.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We are now at the point of broken hearts.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1224.2,"start":1221.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How could she make the choices she made?\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1226.045,"start":1224.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yes, how could she?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1231.61,"start":1228.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is a question the letters are trying to answer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1234.65,"start":1231.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the explanation they offer, the central story they tell, has to do with Donna's ex-husband.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1241.24,"start":1234.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As one friend sums it up, \"I've done a lot of thinking about what led Donna to do what she did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1246.52,"start":1241.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And I believe her main problem, and what directly led to her actions in this case, is her relationship with her ex-husband.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1254.92,"start":1246.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The ex-husband's perspective is not represented.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1257.87,"start":1254.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I contacted him through his lawyer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1259.75,"start":1257.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He did not respond.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1260.755,"start":1259.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There are lots of examples of the ex-husband's behavior in the court record.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1269.13,"start":1264.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The one I'll offer here is not especially shocking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1272.31,"start":1269.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It comes from a letter written by the only person who says she knows Donna's ex well.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1277.62,"start":1272.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She says that Donna didn't ask her to write this letter, that she saw Donna sitting alone in her car at soccer, and she approached her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1285.57,"start":1277.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This writer characterizes Donna's ex's behavior as aggressive and often humiliating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1291.6,"start":1285.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She says you would see Donna and her ex at, quote, \"opposite ends of the soccer field, each trying to be there for their children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1299.55,"start":1291.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She often keeps one eye on him, waiting for the next outburst,\" unquote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1304.59,"start":1299.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The mother who was always alert for an explosion --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1312.49,"start":1309.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"that kind of vigilance, these letters seem to be saying, that kind of vigilance can wreck you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1318.04,"start":1312.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So in the story told by the letters, this chronic stress builds and builds for Donna, until she reaches what many of the writers refer to as a breaking point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1337.31,"start":1326.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What exactly is that breaking point?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1339.92,"start":1337.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That is a part of the story Donna writes herself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1343.79,"start":1339.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's coming up, when Episode 2 of \"The Retrievals\" continues.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1348.18,"start":1343.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The way Donna explains it in her letter, she started taking the fentanyl during COVID.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1362.87,"start":1356.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She tells the story about her ex-husband taking the kids for visitation in March 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1368.27,"start":1362.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Scary time, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1369.95,"start":1368.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Everybody newly shut inside their houses, everything closing down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1374.99,"start":1369.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's ex has been sick --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1376.52,"start":1375}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"a stomach bug, he calls it -- and has postponed a scheduled visit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1381.31,"start":1376.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The night the kids finally go over to their father's, it seems like he's still sick.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1385.69,"start":1381.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They call her, and they're like, Dad is coughing a lot, and he's shivering under three blankets on the couch.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1391.37,"start":1385.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And he said it's hard to breathe and it hurts to breathe.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1394.48,"start":1391.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He claims that he's negative for COVID, but he winds up in the hospital for over a month.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1399.99,"start":1394.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna is frightened for her children and is furious at her ex for knowingly exposing them to his illness, rather than canceling the visit as a precaution.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1410.15,"start":1399.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"After he is home and recuperated, he wants his regular visitation with the kids, but Donna wants proof that he's no longer contagious.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1417.83,"start":1410.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When she refuses to let him see the children, he takes her to family court, demanding sole custody.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1424.2,"start":1417.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is entry number 205 in their docket.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1428.42,"start":1424.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And for Donna, it is a tipping point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1432.8,"start":1428.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"I was overwhelmed by the sense that I would never be free,\" she writes, \"that I would have to take more time off of work, find more money to pay the lawyer, and engage in yet more litigation.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1444.2,"start":1432.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She continues, \"I suddenly couldn't see or think straight anymore.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1449.09,"start":1444.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She says that it was around this time that she resorted to taking fentanyl at work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1454.115,"start":1449.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna says that a few years earlier, she had a prescription for pain in her feet.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1466.98,"start":1460.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"During the course of time that I had the prescription, I did end up taking more than prescribed as a coping mechanism.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1474.12,"start":1466.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I turned to fentanyl, because I knew from prior experience with narcotics that it would help me to cope emotionally and mentally with what was going on in my life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1483.99,"start":1474.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It helped quiet and keep my mind calm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1487.83,"start":1484}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In those moments, it's what I felt I needed to do to endure and hold it together for my children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1494.67,"start":1487.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How this makes any sense as difficult to convey.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1497.085,"start":1494.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna is far from the only medical professional to have a substance use disorder.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1509.35,"start":1504.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That part is not unusual.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1512.02,"start":1509.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I asked a former coworker of Donna's what might have happened if Donna had told someone at the clinic that she was addicted to fentanyl and that she needed help.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1522.2,"start":1512.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"I don't think medicine tolerates that,\" the former coworker said, \"even though we say that we do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1527.98,"start":1522.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I think she'd have lost her job.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1529.36,"start":1527.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The people I talked to who worked at the clinic with Donna characterized her in different ways.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1538.05,"start":1532.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna was not touchy-feely.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1540.21,"start":1538.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna was efficient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1541.41,"start":1540.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her presence was authoritative, no nonsense.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1545.1,"start":1541.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna was attentive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1546.87,"start":1545.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She seemed like she genuinely cared.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1550.23,"start":1546.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There were also more negative impressions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1552.75,"start":1550.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna was cold, not empathetic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1555.78,"start":1552.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She was like, these patients complain so much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1558.99,"start":1555.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's former coworkers knew that she was contending with a lot at home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1569.95,"start":1564.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When her ex was in the hospital, all the nurses hoped he would die, one person said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1574.585,"start":1569.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is the exchange that I found most telling.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1580.16,"start":1577.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I asked one former coworker, who was Donna close to?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1583.85,"start":1580.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The person thought for a moment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1586.44,"start":1583.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"I don't think Donna was close to anyone,\" they said, \"but I think some of the nurses felt close to her.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1593.95,"start":1586.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 1^","text":"The Yale Fertility Center is dedicated to helping couples reach their dream of having a family, with a team of competent and compassionate professionals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1602.2,"start":1593.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A promotional video for the Yale Fertility Center shows Donna at the clinic, sturdy, brunette, a white turtleneck under her scrubs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1611.56,"start":1602.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She looks a little bit like Joan Cusack.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1614.23,"start":1611.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's in a room with a patient, and the patient has her sleeve rolled up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1617.5,"start":1614.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And Donna is preparing to draw blood.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1619.39,"start":1617.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 2^","text":"By helping you navigate the technological, psychological, and physical needs of the IVF process, you will gain perspective, understand your options, and feel confident --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1629.05,"start":1619.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In her letter to the judge, Donna describes feeling trapped and stuck.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1634.24,"start":1629.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She brings up an image of spinning around in a cage, unable to get out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1640.96,"start":1634.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When I see Donna in this video, outwardly capable, I wonder about what she felt inside, if she felt trapped.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1650.35,"start":1640.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Everybody saw what was going on with her ex-husband, but nobody saw that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1654.94,"start":1650.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Nobody seems to see what's really going on with Donna until that loose cap.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1663.69,"start":1658.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Remember, the loose cap is discovered on a Friday.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1667.47,"start":1663.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On Sunday or Monday, it's kind of unclear.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1670.24,"start":1667.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But on Sunday or Monday, Donna comes to work with 175 used vials of fentanyl, meaning 175 vials from which she has extracted fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1680.52,"start":1670.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's been keeping these vials at her house.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1683.28,"start":1680.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She'd been planning to eventually reintroduce them into the supply at the clinic, but now, her plans have changed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1689.7,"start":1683.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That evening at work, she goes out to her car to get clothes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1693.51,"start":1689.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She walks out to the parking lot, and from her car, gets a plastic grocery bag, and then she brings the bag inside and disposes of the 175 vials and two sharps containers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1704.54,"start":1693.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's last-ditch behavior, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1706.43,"start":1704.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's something you do when you are frantic, panicked, and the jig is up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1711.32,"start":1706.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It also seems like something you do when maybe you want to be caught, when maybe you want to be seen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1716.24,"start":1711.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A little more than two weeks later, Donna will confess to a team of federal and state investigators.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1727.57,"start":1721.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will do so without a lawyer present.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1730.18,"start":1727.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will tell them how she did it, how she would puncture the septum of the vial up to four times a day to extract fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1737.93,"start":1730.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will say she always used a clean needle to put the saline in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1742.42,"start":1737.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will say that she's been doing this for five months.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1745.82,"start":1742.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will estimate that during this time, she has tampered with 75 percent of the fentanyl given to patients at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1753.31,"start":1745.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will say that some of the vials had all saline and that some were a mix.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1758.11,"start":1753.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will tell the investigators about her money problems and about her protective orders against her ex-husband.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1764.62,"start":1758.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will tell them about the stress in her life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1766.81,"start":1764.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will tell them that her children don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1769.497,"start":1766.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And at the end of the interview, she will tell the investigators that talking to them has been the best thing for her and that she feels much better.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1775.705,"start":1769.497}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's sentencing hearing is scheduled for a Tuesday morning in May.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1796.01,"start":1791.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's going to be hybrid.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1797.18,"start":1796.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You can attend on Zoom or in person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1800.18,"start":1797.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Most patients who decide to go will attend on Zoom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1803.48,"start":1800.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's spring 2021 of the pandemic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1805.85,"start":1803.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Vaccines are still new.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1807.38,"start":1805.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It doesn't feel like a whole new world yet, but Leah decides she will go in person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1812.73,"start":1807.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I kind of needed to see her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1814.26,"start":1812.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was fascinated with how she was going to fashion herself in this whole -- in the theater.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1822.95,"start":1814.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1823.55,"start":1822.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"So I was fascinated by that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1826.22,"start":1823.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And also, I was -- again, I'm like, I was really, really angry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1830.22,"start":1826.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I wanted to see if she was upset.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1831.95,"start":1830.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I wanted to see if she was --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1833.165,"start":1831.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I wanted to see if she was going to cry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1837.3,"start":1835.633}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But Leah's still ambivalent about what she wants to happen to Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1845.69,"start":1840.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I heard 51 to 63 months, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1849.02,"start":1845.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I had to do the math in my head.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1850.52,"start":1849.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"OK, 51.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1851.45,"start":1850.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I think they had reduced, because she was admitting to being guilty.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1857.42,"start":1851.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"The time that she could potentially be sentenced was reduced.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1861.05,"start":1857.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I remember already being like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1862.55,"start":1861.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[INHALES SHARPLY]","text":"I don't know how I feel about that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1866.64,"start":1862.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[INHALES SHARPLY]","text":"I don't want people to go to prison.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1869.52,"start":1866.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"[INHALES SHARPLY]","text":"But at the same time, well, what do we want to have happen?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1874.85,"start":1869.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What happens to Donna, and whose pain matters more?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1883.21,"start":1878.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's next on \"The Retrievals.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1885.58,"start":1883.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"The Retrievals\" is produced by me and Laura Starcheski.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1905.48,"start":1901.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Laura edited the series, with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder, additional editing by Katie Mingle and Ira Glass, research and fact-checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love, music supervision, sound design, and mixing by Phoebe Wang, with production help from Michelle Navarro,","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1923.12,"start":1905.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"original music by Carla Pallone and music mixing by Tomas Poli.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1928.19,"start":1923.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer for Serial Productions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1932.12,"start":1928.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At \"The New York Times,\" our standards editor is Susan Wessling, legal review by Dana Green, art direction from Pablo Delcan, producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelly Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1946.04,"start":1932.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1948.98,"start":1946.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Special thanks to Pierre Cattoni.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1952.85,"start":1948.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"The Retrievals\" is a production of Serial Productions and \"The New York Times.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1957.73,"start":1952.85}}]},"credit":"","fileUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fnyt.simplecastaudio.com\u002F415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d\u002Fepisodes\u002Fcb204f19-81bf-4b24-b146-55b9768be36e\u002Faudio\u002F128\u002Fdefault.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=cb204f19-81bf-4b24-b146-55b9768be36e&nocache","firstPublished":"2023-07-05T10:57:45.000Z","headline":{"__typename":"CreativeWorkHeadline","default":"Episode 2: The Nurse"},"id":"QXVkaW86bnl0Oi8vYXVkaW8vYzcyMTgxNzQtZmZjOS01ODg5LThlZjItOTBhMzdkODA4NTgx","length":1983,"podcastSeries":{"__typename":"AudioPodcastSeries","image":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":75,"name":"thumbStandard","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2023\u002F06\u002F20\u002Fpodcasts\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art-thumbStandard.jpg","width":75},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2023\u002F06\u002F20\u002Fpodcasts\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art-thumbLarge.jpg","width":150}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvYjRjYzZhMDUtNzJiNC01MjFkLTg3OTAtOGRlNDIxMTQ1MTM2"},"name":"the-retrievals","summary":"They were women trying to become mothers. Their nurse was a mother whose life was falling apart. The doctors didn’t see what was happening to any of them until it was too late. \n\n\u002F\u002FDozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A (five-part) narrative series about the shocking events that unfolded there.","title":"The Retrievals"},"promotionalHeadline":"Episode 2: The Nurse","section":{"__typename":"Section","id":"U2VjdGlvbjpueXQ6Ly9zZWN0aW9uLzExMDc5OTg3LWFlOGQtNWY1Zi04YzJlLThjNjZkMzM3ZDJiYQ==","name":"podcasts"},"sourceId":"100000008982551","summary":"","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002Fc7218174-ffc9-5889-8ef2-90a37d808581"}},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":true,"adsMobile":true,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":7},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"The patients know what happened to them. Now they learn who did it. The story of the nurse whose own pain was also unseen."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":true,"adsDesktopHoldout":true,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":8},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allicia never expected to wind up in a fertility clinic because she never thought she'd want to have children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":9.08,"start":2.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She grew up in Jamaica with a lot of responsibilities for her siblings.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":12.725,"start":9.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I am one of five the second of said five.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":18.59,"start":12.735}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"But I'm the first girl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":20.3,"start":18.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And in my culture, you are required to help your mommy out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":26,"start":20.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Like, you don't have a say so in it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":28.05,"start":26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And so bottles were done by me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":30.95,"start":28.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Laundry was done by me since I was nine years old.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":33.89,"start":30.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And I hated every last part of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":36.27,"start":33.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I always told myself when I got older, I didn't want kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":39.47,"start":36.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And the sad part about that is I think the tongue is so --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":43.22,"start":39.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"it's powerful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":44.36,"start":43.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So you got to be very careful with what you say.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":47.025,"start":44.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What do you mean?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":48.52,"start":47.035}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I think because of --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":51.43,"start":48.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I'm having chills.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":52.48,"start":51.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Because all my life I've said I didn't want kids that I spoke that into existence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":58.54,"start":52.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Now, for a lot of people, that doesn't -- it's not real to them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":63.32,"start":58.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"For me, it is real.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":64.79,"start":63.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So that's why I mean when I say the tongue is powerful because I kept telling myself that I didn't want children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":70.16,"start":64.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And I feel whoever I pray to listen to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":72.62,"start":70.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And then when I wanted children, I was in a position where my only way of having kids was via IVF.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":80.7,"start":72.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allicia was in her 20s when she decided she wanted to have children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":84.73,"start":80.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She was in a relationship, then with the man who would become her husband -- someone she met when she moved to the US.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":91.61,"start":84.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She tried to get pregnant, and nothing was happening.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":94.59,"start":91.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And eventually she learned that her fallopian tubes were blocked.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":97.637,"start":94.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Did you --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":98.72,"start":97.637}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"at that moment when you were finding out that your tubes were blocked, that there was an issue with your tubes, is that the thought you had then?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":105.83,"start":98.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Like, I sort of spoke this into existence or I willed it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":108.95,"start":105.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Yes, definitely.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":110.21,"start":108.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I told myself that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":112.13,"start":110.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I blamed myself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":113.37,"start":112.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And that's another thing, too, is I've always blamed myself after that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":118.8,"start":113.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On the morning of Donna's sentencing hearing, Allicia gets ready to watch from home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":124.05,"start":118.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's going to watch on Zoom because she had thyroid surgery two days ago, and she isn't up for leaving the house.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":131.26,"start":124.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And before the hearing begins, I'm going to take a second to tell you about her because Allicia starts out sympathetic to Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":138.97,"start":131.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I felt that whatever it is that she was going through, it clouded her judgment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":144.52,"start":138.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And she had a lapse in judgment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":149.15,"start":144.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And if she has a mental issue, I feel like she deserves a second chance.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":155.62,"start":149.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But during the hearing, Allicia will learn something about Donna that will test the limits of her compassion and change the way she thinks about Donna's culpability.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":166.84,"start":155.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients are still reckoning with what the pain Donna inflicted has cost them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":172.21,"start":166.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now a court will determine what it should cost her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":177.1,"start":172.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"From \"Serial Productions\" and \"The New York Times,\" I'm Susan Burton, and this is \"The Retrievals.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":183.67,"start":177.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is episode three, \"The Sentence.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":186.205,"start":183.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":189.418,"start":186.215}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"After Allicia found out her tubes were blocked, she was referred to the Yale clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":214.27,"start":209.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her treatment there had barely started when it was interrupted by the pandemic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":219.29,"start":214.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The clinic closed down for a while for most procedures.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":223.14,"start":219.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her doctor invited her to join a Zoom support group of other patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":226.95,"start":223.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And she liked him so much that she said yes, even though that was the kind of thing she wouldn't usually say yes to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":233.01,"start":226.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's not a joiner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":234.27,"start":233.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And hardly anyone knew she was doing IVF.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":237.57,"start":234.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's part of why she asked me to call her Allicia, which is her middle name.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":241.56,"start":237.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I was hesitant, like I said, because I'm very private when it comes to stuff like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":245.61,"start":241.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"This but then it was everybody who was going through stuff like this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":249.09,"start":245.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And it was a little bit weird that I was the only Black girl in it, but then I'm in Connecticut.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":255.24,"start":249.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So it's not like I'm in New York.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":257.35,"start":255.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So there's more Caucasian people around than there is Black people.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":261.97,"start":257.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I wanted to see the weeks going by to see if others were joined who looked like me, but it never happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":270.45,"start":261.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I am very vocal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":273.84,"start":270.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I didn't want to be the vocal person in that group.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":276.82,"start":273.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And then I found this girl who was way more vocal than me, and I was like, yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":280.65,"start":276.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I got comfortable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":282.84,"start":280.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So yeah, that was it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":285.06,"start":282.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"It was like, OK, I don't want to talk to strangers about my life, but they're going through the same thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":292.38,"start":285.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Who better to talk to than these people?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":294.45,"start":292.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":295.14,"start":294.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The clinic Zoom group didn't last long in early in the pandemic thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":299.64,"start":295.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But before it shut down, Allicia and a few others exchanged contact info so that they could keep meeting on their own.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":308.13,"start":299.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women grew close to one another.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":310.39,"start":308.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They shared stories, tips, information, including information about the egg retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":316.23,"start":310.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The ones who'd gone through it told the others forget about what the clinic tells you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":320.64,"start":316.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is going to hurt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":322.24,"start":320.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So in my head, I felt like that was how it was supposed to be because even before I went to do my retrieval, they were prepping me on what I'm going to feel and how I'm going to feel, you get what I'm saying?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":333.1,"start":322.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So in my head, all that pain and all of that was a part of the procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":339.171,"start":333.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Other patients experience their treatments at Yale in isolation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":343.54,"start":339.181}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They went into the retrieval expecting to feel nothing and then felt excruciating pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":349.18,"start":343.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This group of patients went in expecting it to be awful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":352.51,"start":349.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They normalized the pain for one another.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":355.55,"start":352.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So on the day of Allicia's retrieval, she wasn't surprised by what she felt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":359.5,"start":355.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"But like I said, I wasn't sweating it because I was told by the girls in the group to be prepared for that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":365.905,"start":359.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Wow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":366.94,"start":365.915}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"And so tell me about what you felt then.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":370.4,"start":366.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Describe the pain to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":371.62,"start":370.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Like pressure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":373.33,"start":371.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Pressure and you're bleeding a little bit, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":378.01,"start":373.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So it's like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":378.91,"start":378.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"first of all, I don't know what cramps are.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":380.98,"start":378.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I've never had them, knock on wood.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":382.96,"start":380.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So for me, I couldn't even tell you that was cramping or anything like that because I never cramped prior.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":389.29,"start":382.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Wow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":390.61,"start":389.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":391.78,"start":390.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"People always say that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":392.8,"start":391.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"[LAUGHS]:","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":394.504,"start":392.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I have real --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":395.83,"start":394.514}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":396.37,"start":395.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It just had never occurred to me that it was possible to not have cramps.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":399.995,"start":396.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I'm telling you, I feel like my body just listened to me and was not in a position to be making kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":407.27,"start":400.005}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I'm just assuming that's what it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":409.215,"start":407.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":410.09,"start":409.215}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":412.58,"start":410.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her body didn't have cramps because her body wasn't meant to make babies, and she had only herself to blame for that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":418.22,"start":412.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":420.72,"start":418.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"After Allicia had her egg retrieval, she reported her pain to her doctor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":426.56,"start":422.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So he asked about my experience -- how it was and stuff like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":430.73,"start":426.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"My retrieval was done by him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":433.61,"start":430.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And I told him how painful it was.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":437.45,"start":433.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And I was expecting it because my girls got me prepared for it and stuff like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":442.55,"start":437.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And like I said, I wasn't --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":444.65,"start":442.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I'm the type of person that I don't exaggerate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":447.17,"start":444.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I wasn't like, oh my god, I was dying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":450.23,"start":447.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I just made it clear that it was very painful or whatever.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":452.78,"start":450.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So we spoke on that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":453.98,"start":452.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What was his reaction?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":459.97,"start":457.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I think he had a look on his face of concern.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":465.83,"start":459.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I don't know what he did behind the scenes, but you would only be doing something if you're privy to the fact of what it is that we're going through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":475.37,"start":465.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"If you have never been through it, you hear pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":478.4,"start":475.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And pain can be anything, you get what I'm saying?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":480.56,"start":478.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I'm assuming you're going to expect it to be a little bit painful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":484.65,"start":480.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"After that retrieval, Allicia had an embryo transfer and became pregnant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":490.19,"start":484.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But one morning she woke up and she was bleeding.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":493.37,"start":490.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I knew she was no longer living, Allicia said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":496.28,"start":493.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I just felt it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":498.46,"start":496.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"An ultrasound confirmed the worst.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":501.04,"start":498.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allicia was 17 weeks and five days pregnant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":504.62,"start":501.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At the hospital, they told her that she could have surgery or she could push.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":508.595,"start":504.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I gave birth to my baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":510.35,"start":508.605}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I chose to bring her into this world So i could see her because she was dead inside me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":516.409,"start":510.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And I could have done surgery, but the opportunity for me to see her was low.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":522.049,"start":516.409}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So like they told me, they could break her apart trying to get her out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":526.04,"start":522.059}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And I said, no.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":527.36,"start":526.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So they're going through all of that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":529.19,"start":527.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"To go through all of that, all the shots, everything else, all of that to end up not even being able to bring that child into this world is a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":538.4,"start":529.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"To bring her into this world, but she's dead is a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":540.815,"start":538.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When Allicia got the letter from Yale, she put it aside.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":547.85,"start":543.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It didn't totally kick in for her that she was a victim until a couple of months later when she got a breaking news alert on her phone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":555.14,"start":547.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"Yale nurse swapped fentanyl with saline.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":558.93,"start":555.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allicia didn't think she'd ever met Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":562.165,"start":558.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Has you ever interacted with her at the clinic?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":564.79,"start":562.165}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I don't think so.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":566.56,"start":564.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Even if I did, I don't remember her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":570.01,"start":566.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I am not the friendliest person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":572.21,"start":570.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So if I'm there on business, I'm doing business and then I'm leaving.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":578.11,"start":572.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The girls in the group were angry at Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":580.66,"start":578.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allicia was, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":582.52,"start":580.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But what she felt was complicated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":584.62,"start":582.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's a manager at a forensic hospital, a psychiatric hospital for patients who've been charged with crimes, but in some cases found not to be responsible for what they've done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":595.12,"start":584.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In her job there, she's worked with a lot of patients with addiction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":599.15,"start":595.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And she told me that she saw Donna as a patient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":601.82,"start":599.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Saw her more that way than as her health care provider.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":604.456,"start":601.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I was the only person supporting this lady because of the work that I do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":609.2,"start":604.466}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And I genuinely --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":612.29,"start":609.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I really and truly have my heart in the job that I do working with people with mental illness.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":617.93,"start":612.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And an addiction isn't seen as that, but it is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":622.73,"start":617.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So I felt for her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":626.03,"start":622.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":627.65,"start":626.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now, on the morning of the hearing, Allicia stares into her screen, waiting for the proceedings to start.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":634.19,"start":627.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":637.31,"start":634.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In downtown New Haven, Leah arrives in the courtroom, still not sure what she wants but knowing she needs to be here to witness this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":649.09,"start":640.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She sees Donna upfront.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":650.38,"start":649.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Her parents were there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":652.4,"start":650.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"They sat, I think, in the third row.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":654.19,"start":652.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I sat in the back row on the other side.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":657.1,"start":654.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I sat on the prosecution side.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":659.17,"start":657.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And her parents were there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":660.64,"start":659.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"A friend was there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":661.96,"start":660.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I think that's about it for her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":664.96,"start":661.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients watching the hearing on Zoom see that the room is almost empty.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":669.7,"start":664.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna and her lawyer are at a table up front.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":672.4,"start":669.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna is wearing a peach-colored top and a black mask.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":676.24,"start":672.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Many people on Zoom turn off their cameras, but some don't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":680.2,"start":676.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's therapist is on there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":681.94,"start":680.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"An aunt of Donna's from Long Island has logged on multiple times.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":686.02,"start":681.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of her squares shows her ceiling fan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":689.54,"start":686.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then the hearing starts.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":692.48,"start":689.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Please be seated everyone, the judge says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":696.35,"start":692.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Diane, you need to put your volume down just a little.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":699.23,"start":696.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Thanks.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":700.13,"start":699.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"No worries.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":702.36,"start":700.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge is Judge Janet Hall, 72 years old, graduate of Mount Holyoke College, appointed to the bench in 1997 by President Bill Clinton, mother of three children, just like Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":715.98,"start":702.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Obviously, I have the obligation of imposing a sentence on you, Judge Hall says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":721.35,"start":715.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Basically, obviously, I've read a lot, but I haven't made a decision.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":726.5,"start":721.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And she really hasn't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":728.39,"start":726.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What will happen over the course of the hearing is that she will decide in real time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":733.1,"start":728.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge will think out loud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":735.26,"start":733.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She will grapple with what she will characterize as an unusually difficult case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":740.07,"start":735.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The task before her is a narrow one to determine a sentence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":743.9,"start":740.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But in executing that task, she will engage some of the big questions at the heart of this story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":751.51,"start":743.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's public defender stands.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":753.73,"start":751.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her name is Allison Near, 46 years old, mother of two daughters, married to a man who was a professor of ecology at Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":762.13,"start":753.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Neither she nor the judge agreed to speak with me for this story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":766.46,"start":762.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Attorney Near says she's been in contact with Donna almost every day since they met in December.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":770.81,"start":766.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And that as she's tried to help Donna, quote, \"kind of unpack the events from June through October of 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":777.08,"start":770.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I've learned so much about her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":778.92,"start":777.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And I've been moved and impressed by her insight into what went awry.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":784.05,"start":778.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then Attorney Near begins to make her argument.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":787.44,"start":784.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Again, this isn't a trial.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":789.27,"start":787.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna has entered a guilty plea.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":791.49,"start":789.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is a sentencing hearing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":793.5,"start":791.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The thing being decided today is not Donna's guilt or innocence --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":797.58,"start":793.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"just the terms of her sentence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":800.64,"start":797.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna faces a maximum sentence of just over five years in prison.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":804.78,"start":800.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Attorney Near is here to argue that down to as little as possible.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":809.02,"start":804.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The thrust of her argument is Donna's, quote, \"extraordinary family circumstances.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":815.25,"start":809.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That phrase has legal weight.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":817.56,"start":815.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge is obligated to consider Donna's family circumstances.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":822.63,"start":817.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Attorney near points out that if Donna is sent to prison, her ex-husband will almost certainly get custody.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":829.54,"start":822.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge must consider whether this is a good or even safe outcome for Donna's children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":834,"start":829.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":837.03,"start":834.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In advance of the hearing, the judge has reviewed many documents, like the character reference letters from Donna's family and friends, and the police reports that contain accounts of her ex-husband's behavior.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":850.31,"start":838.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge has a lot of discretion to sentence below the guideline of five years if she decides that Donna's family situation warrants it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":859.86,"start":850.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Attorney Near finishes her opening remarks and calls a witness, a friend of Donna's who says she fears for the safety of Donna's children if Donna's ex-husband gets custody, and that Donna's children need her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":872.54,"start":859.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When the friend is done, the judge begins to wrestle with her first big question of the morning --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":878,"start":872.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"one about trust.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":881.08,"start":878}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge says, quote, \"it is just --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":885.13,"start":881.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"it is a real serious offense.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":887.32,"start":885.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is such a breach of trust.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":889.57,"start":887.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her relationship with the patients, the numbers who were impacted, the level of pain I can only imagine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":895.69,"start":889.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't have a lot of familiarity with the procedure, but I've spoken to women who've gone through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":900.64,"start":895.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is physically and psychologically difficult to begin with.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":904.62,"start":900.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Then you want to layer it on top that you do it without pain management.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":908.06,"start":904.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It isn't just the pain, because that would diminish it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":911.39,"start":908.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is the breach of trust.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":913.4,"start":911.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What many of the victims spoke about in those letters, about the sense of the breach of trust.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":918.54,"start":913.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":919.89,"start":918.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't know there's anything more you can say, Attorney Near.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":922.76,"start":919.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But I can't let you sit down without asking.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":926.8,"start":922.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Attorney Near says that she and Donna have talked about this very thing a lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":931.33,"start":926.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That Donna has really tried to get out what was going on in her head.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":935.68,"start":931.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She mentions that Donna appreciated the letter from the victim who talked about addiction in the brain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":941.59,"start":935.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But the judge is asking a difficult question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":946.03,"start":941.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"And you know, I think your honor is right to guess.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":948.4,"start":946.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I probably don't have an answer to that question, except to say that she more than accepts responsibility.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":956.4,"start":948.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"From the judge's perspective, there's a lot that's hard to answer here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":962.11,"start":956.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Here is a person, Judge Hall says now, about whom I have how many letters and other things that tell me she's a wonderful person, a good citizen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":971.35,"start":962.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Clearly did something extremely bad and she caused harm to people, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":975.19,"start":971.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But how do you address that in a sentencing context when I'm also considering, as I'm required to, her history and characteristics which bring in her family?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":984.59,"start":975.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So there's no --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":985.84,"start":984.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"as I said to you folks in a brief conference we had, there's no right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":989.17,"start":985.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's no answer here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":990.79,"start":989.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Forget about whether there's a good answer or a right answer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":995.82,"start":990.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge's style is not endearing her to Leah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":999.065,"start":995.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I don't know what to do.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1001.06,"start":999.075}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"How do I sentence?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1002.058,"start":1001.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"She had this whole thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1003.1,"start":1002.058}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It was kind of like a \"Seinfeld\" episode I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1005.962,"start":1003.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Should -- I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1006.92,"start":1005.962}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1008.65,"start":1006.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I wrote a letter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1009.58,"start":1008.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Many of the women wrote letters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1011.08,"start":1009.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And the judge talked about how she had read all the letters, and it was so hard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1015.26,"start":1011.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It was so hard for her to decide.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1016.84,"start":1015.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I remember as she was talking about that, I was like, oh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1022.195,"start":1016.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"[SIGH]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1022.695,"start":1022.195}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1026.02,"start":1022.705}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But anyway, says the judge, we're just repeating ourselves, Attorney Near.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1032.109,"start":1026.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So you said your client wished to speak.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1034.839,"start":1032.109}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yes, she does, Your Honor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1036.88,"start":1034.839}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna stands.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1039.73,"start":1036.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Many people in my life have asked me various versions of the question, how did this happen, says Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1046.97,"start":1039.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Initially, I was unable to answer that question with true in-depth insight.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1052.18,"start":1046.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When I learned that my ex-husband had knowingly exposed my three minor children to his COVID illness, that he would later suffer an extended near-death hospitalization from, it created a fear and level of anxiety in me where my children are concerned.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1066.68,"start":1052.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I reached a whole new level that I didn't know how to process or handle.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1070.78,"start":1066.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I've spent the greater part of seven years working within the legal DCF and Family Court system to protect my children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1077.56,"start":1070.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I did all of this by the book and took pride in the same.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1082.55,"start":1077.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"June 2020, I hit a breaking point.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1084.89,"start":1082.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And to think that after all I have done to protect my children, that my actions have hurt them so severely is devastating and a consequence that I will live with for the rest of my life.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1093.485,"start":1084.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1096.74,"start":1093.495}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In the back of the courtroom, Leah listens intently.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1100.25,"start":1096.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Donna --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1102.23,"start":1100.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I don't think she --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1105.02,"start":1102.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"it was all about how she had kind of like, oh, she needs to be with her children, and she had failed her children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1111.23,"start":1105.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I don't know that I heard a lot of remorse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1115.28,"start":1111.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But again, what could I have heard?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1117.5,"start":1115.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"What could any of us have heard that made us --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1120.755,"start":1117.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"would make us feel better?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1123.59,"start":1120.755}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Would an acknowledgment of the pain the patients felt have done it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1127.07,"start":1123.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because Donna leaves that out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1129.41,"start":1127.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She doesn't say anything about pain at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1131.495,"start":1129.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then Donna says something that surprises Leah, something that Leah and others are learning in this courtroom for the very first time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1146.98,"start":1137.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna says, I am a former fertility patient myself, and that interest is what drove me to my interest in fertility nursing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1154.63,"start":1146.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"She's an IVF patient, too?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1157,"start":1154.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Are you kidding me?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1158.47,"start":1157}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I mean, you could almost hear.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1160.03,"start":1158.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"There were people on Zoom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1161.41,"start":1160.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I can almost feel like the bomb dropped.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1163.615,"start":1161.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Everyone's on mute.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1167.47,"start":1166.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But I'm telling you, it was like a moment where I was like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1170.68,"start":1167.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"it was like an audible gasp.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1173.5,"start":1170.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"The fact that she was an IVF patient herself, I had to etch a sketch my head.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1179.17,"start":1173.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was in a kind of profound shock.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1182.08,"start":1179.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It was literally like a punch to the face, a punch to the gut.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1186.43,"start":1182.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It took it to a different kind of --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1188.2,"start":1186.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A different kind of what, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1195.05,"start":1192.826}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is exactly the question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1197.12,"start":1195.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This levels it up, but how and on what scale?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1201.44,"start":1197.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Scale of emotional violence?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1203.93,"start":1201.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We started on breach of trust.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1206.22,"start":1203.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now we are up to intimate betrayal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1207.89,"start":1206.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1210.7,"start":1207.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In her letter to the judge, Donna writes that she went through multiple rounds of fertility treatment, and that her history as an IVF patient makes what she did that much more devastating.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1222.73,"start":1210.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is the moment things shift for Allicia.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1225.34,"start":1222.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"When I heard that she went through IVF, I was like, there is no way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1229.84,"start":1225.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"There is no way I can ever look at this lady the same way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1233.59,"start":1229.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"That's when I lost it because I said to myself, there is no way me, personally, who have gone through this, would even try to put any amount of other pain on a person who went through that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1245.26,"start":1233.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And you went through IVF yourself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1247.39,"start":1245.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"How could you possibly do this to somebody else?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1250.27,"start":1247.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"it was in that moment I couldn't look at her the same way I looked at my patients anymore.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1256.12,"start":1250.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna had known how hard it was to go through IVF, not just the physical pain of the retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1262.34,"start":1256.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She actually probably didn't know that pain at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1264.71,"start":1262.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She'd probably gotten some kind of anesthesia.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1268.01,"start":1264.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What was worse was that she knew the emotional pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1271.13,"start":1268.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She knew about the special vulnerability of being a fertility patient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1275.42,"start":1271.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She knew this in the intimate way you can only know it if you go through it yourself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1280.34,"start":1275.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And still she had done this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1281.945,"start":1280.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Like I said, I am not a people's person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1289.48,"start":1286.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So nothing anyone does surprises me because people are who they are.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1295.27,"start":1289.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So it just opened my eyes to say even when somebody has been through the exact same thing as you, they can still turn around and be a monster towards you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1306.145,"start":1295.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In the front of the courtroom, Donna apologizes to those she has hurt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1313.57,"start":1308.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was never my intention to harm anyone in any way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1317.73,"start":1313.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then she winds up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1319.47,"start":1317.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Thank you very much, says the judge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1322.87,"start":1319.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She addresses Donna's attorney.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1326.39,"start":1322.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I guess I have one question I will ask you, Attorney Near.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1330.19,"start":1326.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I believe that I think in her statement -- although I'm having trouble finding it, eyeballing it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1335.24,"start":1330.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But I think you argue it in your brief about how --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1338.89,"start":1335.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"and she just said it again, \"never intended to hurt anyone.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1343.63,"start":1338.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I struggled with that, wherever it is, when I read it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1346.78,"start":1343.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't know --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1348.65,"start":1346.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't know how she wouldn't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1350.08,"start":1348.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She didn't intend, I guess, in the sense she's an addict.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1353.29,"start":1350.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's doing something she doesn't control.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1356.35,"start":1353.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Clearly, she knew the consequences of depriving a patient undergoing this procedure of painkiller.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1362.92,"start":1356.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1363.52,"start":1362.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another big question -- intent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1366.49,"start":1363.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna knew that her patience would suffer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1369.28,"start":1366.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How do we deal with that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1372.97,"start":1369.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Attorney Near explains that Donna did not have malicious intent, but she continues.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1379.45,"start":1372.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is not any kind of ignorance about what the outcome is going to be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1383.55,"start":1379.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I guess I was separating it out from somebody who was setting out to harm others.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1388.23,"start":1383.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is not an excuse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1389.78,"start":1388.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is not a justification.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1391.82,"start":1389.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I just think it is a fact.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1395.34,"start":1391.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"OK, says the judge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1398.23,"start":1395.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Attorney Near adds, she continued to do this because she didn't think, because she didn't stop and try to reconcile the fact and impact of what she was doing in the moment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1409.31,"start":1398.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sidebar for a moment, my own sidebar, my own reaction to Attorney Near.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1415.91,"start":1409.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The idea that Donna didn't stop and think, the way it plays out is more nuanced, isn't it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1422.64,"start":1415.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sometimes you do stop and think about the fact and impact, but your need is so great that you do it anyway, or sometimes you choose not to stop and think because you don't want to stop and think.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1433.24,"start":1422.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The whole point of your addiction is to not have to stop and think.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1438.47,"start":1433.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is true that Donna had an opioid addiction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1441.83,"start":1438.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is also true that she made choices in that addiction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1446.8,"start":1441.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"OK, I'm done with my sidebar.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1449.86,"start":1446.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Back to the proceedings.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1453.13,"start":1449.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Judge Hall turns to the prosecution.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1455.98,"start":1453.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You've been very patient, she says to Assistant U.S Attorney Ray Miller.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1460.63,"start":1455.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He gets right to it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1463.16,"start":1460.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I think there's another side to the story here, the US attorney says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1467.2,"start":1463.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I think the first thing we need to think about, the first question we need to ask is why are we all here today?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1473.54,"start":1467.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Why are we here on Tuesday morning in federal court?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1477.13,"start":1473.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Well, I'll tell you why we're not here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1479.53,"start":1477.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We're not here because the defendant decided to use drugs because of difficult family circumstances.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1484.9,"start":1479.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We're also not here, quite frankly, because she stole drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1488.5,"start":1484.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We're here today because she knowingly, intentionally, repeatedly, replaced the drugs with saline and inflicted incredible physical and emotional suffering on the victims.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1499.525,"start":1488.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As she did with Attorney Near, the judge listens to Attorney Miller, and then she begins to speak.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1509.06,"start":1502.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She has another big question, one about institutional responsibility.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1515.62,"start":1509.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I have a question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1517.03,"start":1515.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When narcotics are dispensed to patients, is it typical that one person is in charge and there's no other --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1524.41,"start":1517.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"there's not a double check, somebody who also has access to look at?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1529.12,"start":1524.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Someone on the Zoom chimes in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1531.22,"start":1529.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yes, great question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1533.17,"start":1531.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Great question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1534.73,"start":1533.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm sorry, says the judge, those of you on the Zoom are not allowed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1538.27,"start":1534.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's as if you're in the courtroom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1540.94,"start":1538.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But anyway, again, I don't wish to take away from her culpability.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1546.01,"start":1540.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm not in any way asking and saying it is somebody else's fault. I'm just curious.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1551.29,"start":1546.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale's responsibility isn't the subject of this hearing, but this is the one moment it's alluded to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1559.81,"start":1553.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Aside from this, the fact that there was an institutional failure here, a failure to prevent an employee from causing pain to patients for months on end doesn't come up at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1572.41,"start":1559.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The US attorney mainly talks about why he's recommending the guideline sentence for Donna --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1576.97,"start":1572.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"again, up to about five years.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1579.67,"start":1576.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge tells him that he's making an extremely compelling case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1583.93,"start":1579.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But she still got the same problem, which is, essentially, Donna harmed patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1589.58,"start":1583.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But if she goes to prison, there's harm to her kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1593.89,"start":1589.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Attorney Near has put a lot of stuff in front of me that raises grave concerns, the judge says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1599.15,"start":1593.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't hear the government telling me, Judge, that's smoke and mirrors.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1602.35,"start":1599.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's making it up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1603.56,"start":1602.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's not as bad as that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1606.34,"start":1603.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I hold Attorney Near in the highest regard, Attorney Miller says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1610.73,"start":1606.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't doubt the veracity of anything she says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1614.05,"start":1610.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What I would urge the court to think about is that we're hearing one side of the story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1620.25,"start":1614.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm not prepared to litigate the viability of the ex-husband as a parent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1623.72,"start":1620.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I have no idea.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1624.86,"start":1623.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He might be terrible.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1626.15,"start":1624.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I have no idea.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1627.26,"start":1626.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He might have other counterpoints to what's being said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1630.03,"start":1627.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You don't have that perspective.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1631.95,"start":1630.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So I think that need to weigh that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1634.44,"start":1631.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge is weighing that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1636.3,"start":1634.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She notes multiple times during the hearing that there are gaps in what she knows.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1640.38,"start":1636.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But she's read, quote, \"enough to raise red flags for me.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1645.4,"start":1640.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is in total tension, she notes, the degree of culpability and the degree of family circumstances that I need to consider.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1654.63,"start":1645.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge explains that Donna's family circumstances don't make her any less culpable, but that the court is, quote, \"reluctant to wreak extraordinary destruction on the family.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1666.3,"start":1654.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't know that the victims would appreciate it, the judge says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1671.89,"start":1666.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The victims can probably appreciate the legal requirement.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1675.25,"start":1671.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That doesn't seem that hard to grasp.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1677.98,"start":1675.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What the victims don't appreciate is the painful irony that isn't being acknowledged here --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1683.91,"start":1677.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's status as a mother protects her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1686.82,"start":1683.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And motherhood is why a lot of them are here in the first place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1690.48,"start":1686.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They wanted what she has.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1693.396,"start":1690.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I remember being like, why does she get to be a mom?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1699.06,"start":1693.406}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"This was the irony.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1700.8,"start":1699.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Why does she get to be a mom that we can feel compassion about when she decided that that's something that she could withhold from other people who were trying to be mothers?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1713.14,"start":1700.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"You're talking about the fact that, oh, your family was falling apart.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1719.99,"start":1713.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"We were trying to have a family.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1722.87,"start":1719.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"You got to where it could fall apart.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1725.7,"start":1722.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"We weren't even there yet.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1727.52,"start":1725.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"How dare you?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1730.53,"start":1727.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allicia had that miscarriage at 17 weeks and five days.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1734.43,"start":1730.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She sees herself as having been a mother for all of that time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1739.11,"start":1734.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As a mom for 17 weeks and five days, I would have been willing to die so my kid could live, she said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1744.57,"start":1739.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1747.84,"start":1744.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The cruelty here is not just the pain of the procedure, but the chance that Donna had had to be a mother, to continue to be a mother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1759.06,"start":1749.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And there's an essential incongruity, which is that Donna says that, as a mother, she wants nothing more than to keep her children safe, but she made choices that endangered them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1770.44,"start":1759.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"The amount of fentanyl she was having and then returning to work, I just --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1775.63,"start":1770.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"but then she also had to go and pick up her kids and feed her kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1779.17,"start":1775.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And she had this whole narrative about, oh, I was protecting them from this evil, shitty father who didn't care about COVID.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1786.88,"start":1779.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I thought, how did you take care of your kids?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1789.76,"start":1786.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"What she was implying was she was doing everything in her power to be there for her children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1796.19,"start":1789.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And in my head, you were doing the total opposite of everything you should be doing to be there for your kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1802.85,"start":1796.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To Allicia, there are a lot of things that just aren't adding up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1806.285,"start":1802.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And these are the things that was annoying me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1808.66,"start":1806.285}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"They were making it seem as though the reason she was doing drugs was because of her husband was --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1813.025,"start":1808.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"he was being too much, or he was --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1817.21,"start":1813.025}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"whatever the reason was, to me, it was just BS, to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1820.96,"start":1817.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1824.212,"start":1820.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The story seems like BS to a bunch of patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1828.56,"start":1825.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's divorced.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1829.55,"start":1828.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That doesn't sound very unusual to me, one of them said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1833.84,"start":1829.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another one put it this way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1836.09,"start":1833.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For her to blame all of it on anxiety over a divorce with her husband and COVID, that doesn't make any sense.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1842.465,"start":1836.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But the story doesn't have to make sense to the patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1848.01,"start":1845.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They aren't the intended audience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1850.47,"start":1848.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The purpose of the story is to keep Donna out of prison.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1854.1,"start":1850.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The story has been constructed for the person who will decide her fate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1859.38,"start":1854.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The story is for the court, not for the victims.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1862.1,"start":1859.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The hearing is almost over, but first there is a victim who wishes to speak.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1876.15,"start":1870.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Good morning to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1877.38,"start":1876.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And whenever you are ready to speak, please go ahead, says the judge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1882.36,"start":1877.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The victim speaks directly to Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1885.93,"start":1882.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You hurt me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1887.49,"start":1885.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You hurt me on that day, and the pain was horrible.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1891.13,"start":1887.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was excruciating, and it was awful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1894.28,"start":1891.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For me specifically, what was really terrible was the psychological toll that Judge Hall has referenced because I'm a physician, and I know exactly what fentanyl does.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1903.82,"start":1894.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And I have had the procedure before, the extraction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1906.67,"start":1903.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And so I had fentanyl before.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1909.17,"start":1906.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So this time at my second egg extraction, when they gave me the saline, I immediately said, hey, this is saline.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1916.21,"start":1909.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You didn't give me any fentanyl at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1918.62,"start":1916.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the nurse --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1920.08,"start":1918.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't think it was you, actually.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1921.76,"start":1920.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The nurse looked at me and said, I already gave you 25 fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1925.51,"start":1921.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I said you need to give me another because that was saline.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1929.73,"start":1925.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She gave me another one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1930.75,"start":1929.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And I said, uh-oh that was saline also.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1933.99,"start":1930.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I said I know exactly this was saline.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1936.24,"start":1933.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I can taste the saline in my mouth, and it's not the feeling of fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1940.15,"start":1936.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I push fentanyl every day all the time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1942.46,"start":1940.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I give moderate sedation every day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1944.38,"start":1942.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is not fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1945.93,"start":1944.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And I had to look at the doctor and look at the nurse and say, oh my god, I'm about to undergo this procedure with no sedation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1952.98,"start":1945.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And you know, I had to undergo it because otherwise I was going to ovulate and lose all of my eggs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1959.35,"start":1952.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The victim says that after the procedure, she was in so much pain that she ended up going to the ER at the hospital where she herself was a trauma surgeon.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1969.3,"start":1959.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There, quote, \"the nurse I had worked with the day before didn't even recognize me because I was in such terrible shape.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1977.43,"start":1969.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I was in such pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1979.32,"start":1977.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"All I could do was moan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1980.85,"start":1979.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I couldn't even communicate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1982.23,"start":1980.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I was in that much pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1983.94,"start":1982.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And she thought I was a drug addict.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1986.17,"start":1983.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She didn't even recognize me as her attending doctor that was working with her in the emergency department the day before when I was on call.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1995.47,"start":1986.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"You know, the victim says, \"to me, you're the big winner here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2001.32,"start":1995.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You weren't in pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2003.12,"start":2001.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You have three children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2005.19,"start":2003.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Nobody's going to take anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2006.9,"start":2005.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You still have three kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2009.24,"start":2006.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At this infertility clinic, there's hundreds of women who would rather be where you are, rather have the three kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2016.76,"start":2009.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's been a really difficult time, and you kicked us while we were down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2022.04,"start":2016.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's all.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2022.865,"start":2022.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2026.066,"start":2022.875}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's lawyer speaks.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2034.05,"start":2030.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I think it is appropriate for the victims to have the last word today, Your Honor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2038.025,"start":2034.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If only that were the case, Attorney Near.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2043.62,"start":2040.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm afraid I have to have the last word.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2047.15,"start":2043.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Here it comes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2049.61,"start":2047.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm still struggling, Judge Hall says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2053.679,"start":2049.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge seems to be trying to pull everything together.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2056.54,"start":2053.679}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She reflects on the patient suffering.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2058.69,"start":2056.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She tells Donna, quote, \"you worked such pain on these women.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2063.13,"start":2058.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She reflects on all of the letters in Donna's support on her confession, her rehabilitation, her children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2072.739,"start":2063.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge seems to have settled something for herself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2075.78,"start":2072.749}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She is ready to rule.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2079.46,"start":2075.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As I reach my decision, I keep thinking of someone who was never my colleague, but for whom I had a lot of respect, Judge Emmet Clarie who sat in Hartford.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2089.69,"start":2079.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He sat in the days when no one with a white collar went to jail.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2092.63,"start":2089.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But his philosophy was he was ahead of his time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2096.85,"start":2092.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Everyone should have a taste.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2099.84,"start":2096.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If you would please rise.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2101.76,"start":2099.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm going to impose a sentence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2103.32,"start":2101.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge sentences Donna to four weekends in prison, alternating weekends because of her custody arrangement.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2114.03,"start":2106.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On Sundays, the marshal will make sure she gets out in time to pick up her kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2117.645,"start":2114.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Obviously, I know from the victim's point of view, this is too little, the judge says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2126.27,"start":2120.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And I'm sure they think I've made a mistake.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2129.34,"start":2126.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't know if I have myself or not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2132.41,"start":2129.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I do not see it, she adds immediately.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2137.67,"start":2132.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge named some additional conditions, including a period of house arrest and three years of supervised release with mandatory substance use treatment and drug testing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2147.375,"start":2137.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Anything further that the court should address, the judge asks?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2154.16,"start":2149.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Not from the government, says Attorney Miller.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2157.31,"start":2154.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"No, Your Honor, Donna's lawyer says.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2161.49,"start":2157.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"All right, we'll stand in recess.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2164.19,"start":2161.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Thank you all very much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2167.36,"start":2164.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Someone on Zoom unmutes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2170.27,"start":2167.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Do the world a favor and go overdose, you disgusting drug addict.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2175.85,"start":2170.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Whereupon, the hearing adjourned at 12:47 PM.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2179.905,"start":2175.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2183.266,"start":2179.915}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What do you make of the judge's decision to sentence her the way she did?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2198.902,"start":2194.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What do you make of the judge's sentence?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2200.61,"start":2198.902}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I think it was unfair.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2202.5,"start":2200.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Here's the kicker to a situation like this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2205.68,"start":2202.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Unless you have been in a situation where you're going through infertility issues, you'll never understand it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2215.52,"start":2205.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge had heard the victims' stories, but she hadn't experienced what they did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2221.16,"start":2215.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In Allicia's view, a story is not enough to understand the pain of another.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2226.29,"start":2221.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"I can tell you how I feel less than the average person because I cannot go to bed with my husband, make love with him and make a child.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2236.19,"start":2226.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"That wasn't my way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2237.73,"start":2236.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"So my only way was the way that I chose to do it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2241.59,"start":2237.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And even trying to do that, someone else decided to bring more pain to what I'm already feeling.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2247.36,"start":2241.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"It's hard for somebody to see that unless the judge herself had gone through IVF.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2255.76,"start":2247.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And by that logic, the logic of identification, you wonder about the inverse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2261.07,"start":2255.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The judge was a mother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2262.69,"start":2261.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna was a mother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2264.4,"start":2262.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna's attorney was also a mother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2267.25,"start":2264.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Was motherhood the decisive alliance?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2270.22,"start":2267.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But Allicia thought there were probably other reasons for the sentence, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2274.08,"start":2270.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Honestly, did I think it would be that little amount of time?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2278.02,"start":2274.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"No.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2278.71,"start":2278.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Absolutely not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2279.83,"start":2278.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"But I wasn't surprised.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2281.98,"start":2279.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Why weren't you surprised?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2284.77,"start":2281.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Honestly, it's a lot of things that doesn't surprise me in this country a whole lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2289.03,"start":2284.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And like she says, she will get to stay home, and she'll be there for her kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2295.81,"start":2289.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And every accommodation was made for this woman.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2299.62,"start":2295.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"This woman caused so many pain to so many different people, and she was accommodated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2305.71,"start":2299.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"In my mind, she was accommodated to the full extent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2309.49,"start":2305.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Now, I don't believe that would have been everybody else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2313.24,"start":2309.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"But for her, it worked out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2315.89,"start":2313.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And when you look around in this country, nothing surprises me anymore, honestly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2320.737,"start":2315.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Do you think that the fact that she's white had something to do with her sentence?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2324.82,"start":2320.737}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Absolutely.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2325.92,"start":2324.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Absolutely.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2327.17,"start":2325.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"Absolutely.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2329.02,"start":2327.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"If you're doing time for registering to vote, and someone can take that amount of medication for herself, then that tells me something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2339.78,"start":2329.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"And everything is not about race, but a lot of things are.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2344.82,"start":2339.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLICIA^","text":"A lot of things are.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2347.616,"start":2344.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The sentence invited questions about privilege.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2351.61,"start":2347.626}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It wasn't just that it was so light, it was so convenient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2355.34,"start":2351.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was designed to fit Donna's needs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2358.54,"start":2355.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was bespoke sentencing tailored to fit her needs as a mother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2362.91,"start":2358.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Donna got to say, oh, but I'm now rehabilitating, and I want to be with my kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2367.05,"start":2362.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And the judge said, you know what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2369.69,"start":2367.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Yeah, you've had a really hard -- this is really hard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2373.18,"start":2369.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It sounds really hard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2374.67,"start":2373.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Let's make sure you can just go to prison the weekends where you don't have to see your kids, and then we'll let you out in time to go pick up your kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2384.83,"start":2374.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I mean, is that whiteness in America?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2387.438,"start":2384.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2387.98,"start":2387.438}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"What is that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2388.775,"start":2387.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I thought the entire time --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2392.96,"start":2391.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was like, Black women have had their children taken away for a tenth of an centimeter of what Donna's done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2403.01,"start":2392.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And she's now -- she's being protected because she represented herself as an injurious mother, and she's the last line of defense for her kids.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2414.24,"start":2403.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And that's OK even though she's a drug addict who's putting other people's lives at risk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2421.535,"start":2414.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2424.7,"start":2421.545}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah went into the hearing not knowing what she wanted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2427.58,"start":2424.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She came in torn between her misgivings about the system and her outrage at Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2433.28,"start":2427.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In a way, the sentence kept her in that place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2436.28,"start":2433.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Katie, the addiction researcher, went into the hearing knowing what she believed, if not exactly what she wanted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2443.81,"start":2436.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But seeing it all play out did not feel good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2447.2,"start":2443.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I cried the whole time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2449.13,"start":2447.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I mean, I found it really, really sad all around, Just the nurses' circumstances, the victims who testified --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2457.25,"start":2449.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"so emotional -- and all of us who experienced these horrible procedures and pregnancy losses, the poor system in place, the criminal justice system, the whole thing I remember.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2469.13,"start":2457.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I remembered, despite my letter and my belief in substance abuse treatment, I felt and still feel really deeply that many women were probably really hurt by the light sentence that she received.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2486.06,"start":2469.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I remember texting a friend something like -- it was complicated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2494.1,"start":2488.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But a good outcome, but complicated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2497.25,"start":2494.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Angela, the patient who works as a public defender, learned about the sentence after the fact.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2503.29,"start":2497.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She chose not to attend the hearing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2504.99,"start":2503.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"At that point, I had a newborn son.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2507.93,"start":2505}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And the thought of reliving it in those moments was too much for me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2516.06,"start":2507.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2518.36,"start":2516.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What do you make of her sentence?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2521.384,"start":2518.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"[CHUCKLES]:","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2522.368,"start":2521.394}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Kudos to her public defender, honestly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2530.14,"start":2524.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When Angela learned of Donna's crime, she'd struggled to identify as a victim.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2535.35,"start":2530.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now her dual identities were colliding again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2538.355,"start":2535.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I think the worst conversation I had was a family member was like, well, what would you have liked to see happen?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2546.69,"start":2538.365}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And honestly, I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2549.05,"start":2546.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And this family member asked me if I wanted her to have to go through an egg retrieval without pain medication.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2556.07,"start":2549.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"If that would have been enough, would you want her to suffer like you suffered?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2562.07,"start":2556.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I dead face said I would never want someone to go through what I went through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2571.02,"start":2562.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I don't care if she's the reason why it happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2574.22,"start":2571.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I would never wish this on her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2577.37,"start":2574.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And just having to then explain how traumatic it was, but how I had to be OK with her -- what I think is a light sentence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2586.16,"start":2577.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"She has to do jail on the weekends and go to a drug program.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2593.25,"start":2586.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"But the defense attorney in me also kind of kicked into high gear.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2597.14,"start":2593.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And I was like well, this is somebody who has a drug addiction, and they need help.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2601.13,"start":2597.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And incarcerating them isn't going to help.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2603.54,"start":2601.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"They need to be able to function in society beyond this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2610.07,"start":2603.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And she obviously lost her nursing license.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2613.07,"start":2610.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"So she can't do it again, theoretically.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2615.455,"start":2613.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2618.722,"start":2615.465}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At the end of the hearing the few people inside the courthouse stepped out into a sparkling spring afternoon.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2626.28,"start":2618.732}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Local news cameras followed Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2628.59,"start":2626.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her attorney put a protective hand on her back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2632,"start":2628.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna held a sheaf of papers and averted her gaze as she left the scene.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2637.66,"start":2632.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her case was over.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2639.4,"start":2637.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But for Angela and other patients, Donna was not the only one, or even the main one, who had something to explain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2647.47,"start":2639.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Honestly, my anger is not at her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2651.64,"start":2647.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It probably should more be at her, but it's not because she's one person.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2655.93,"start":2651.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And she wasn't the nurse in my room.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2658.94,"start":2655.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"So what were the rest of them doing?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2661.33,"start":2658.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2664.08,"start":2661.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In front of the courthouse is the New Haven Green.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2667.58,"start":2664.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On the other side of it up a little hill is Yale, a long wall of stone towers along College Street.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2675.47,"start":2667.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"The Yale Fertility Clinic is not a brand new setting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2679.67,"start":2675.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It's not one doctor in a back alley.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2682.37,"start":2679.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"This is an entire setup.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2684.59,"start":2682.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"This is an entire institution that's behind it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2687.42,"start":2684.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It's got this reputation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2688.76,"start":2687.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"How do they not see that this is happening?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2691.76,"start":2688.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2694.82,"start":2691.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now the patients had Donna's story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2697.43,"start":2694.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It may have been incomplete or unsatisfying, but it had been laid out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2703.06,"start":2697.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There was another story the patient still didn't have.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2706,"start":2703.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They didn't have Yale's story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2708.79,"start":2706}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What we know about what happened at the clinic, that's in two weeks, July 27, on the next episode of \"The Retrievals.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2716.485,"start":2708.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2719.872,"start":2716.495}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"The Retrievals\" is produced by me and Laura Starcheski.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2738.87,"start":2735.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Laura edited the series with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2743.4,"start":2738.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Additional editing by Katie Mingle and Ira Glass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2746.37,"start":2743.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Research and fact checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2749.76,"start":2746.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Music supervision sound design and mixing by Phoebe Wang.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2753.75,"start":2749.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Original music by Carla Pallone and music mixing by Thomas Poli.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2758.61,"start":2753.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Ndeye Thioubou is the supervising producer for \"Serial Productions.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2762.45,"start":2758.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At \"The New York Times,\" our standards editor is Susan Wessling.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2765.75,"start":2762.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Legal review by Dana Green.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2767.82,"start":2765.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Art direction from Pablo Delcan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2770.1,"start":2767.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelly Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2776.64,"start":2770.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2779.97,"start":2776.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Special Thanks to Vincent Sutherland and Kylie Silver.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2782.88,"start":2779.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2786.11,"start":2782.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"The Retrievals\" is a production of \"Serial Productions\" and \"The New York Times.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2789.68,"start":2786.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC 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Their nurse was a mother whose life was falling apart. The doctors didn’t see what was happening to any of them until it was too late. \n\n\u002F\u002FDozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A (five-part) narrative series about the shocking events that unfolded there.","title":"The Retrievals"},"promotionalHeadline":"Bonus: Did This Happen to You?","section":{"__typename":"Section","id":"U2VjdGlvbjpueXQ6Ly9zZWN0aW9uLzExMDc5OTg3LWFlOGQtNWY1Zi04YzJlLThjNjZkMzM3ZDJiYQ==","name":"podcasts"},"sourceId":"100000009007013","summary":"","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002F1738eb73-e616-5219-b66f-70b48bdf32d6"}},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":true,"adsMobile":true,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":11},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"A message from Susan Burton."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients had generally two kinds of questions about what went on at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":8.16,"start":2.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The first kind of questions were about the system.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":10.85,"start":8.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"How could this huge system fail in such a way that this could happen?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":18.14,"start":10.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"The fact that somebody was able to walk out with bags of fentanyl in their purse and no one batted an eye.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":27.66,"start":18.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"How does that even happen?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":29.84,"start":27.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUAN BURTON","text":"The second kind of questions were about the people in that system.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":33.92,"start":29.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"You wonder what each person, the doctor or the nurse in the room, what their experience of this was?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":40.55,"start":33.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"What were they thinking?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":41.97,"start":40.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But most of the patients never got to ask those questions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":45.02,"start":41.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Staffers were told not to talk with patients about what happened with the fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":49.31,"start":45.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And for some of the patients, it was hard to bring up to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":52.79,"start":49.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I remember going into the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":54.65,"start":52.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I never spoke with anyone about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":56.96,"start":54.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I remember that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":57.95,"start":56.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I remember that feeling of going into the clinic and kind of looking around.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":62.57,"start":57.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And first of all, sitting in the waiting room, which of course, was not very full because of COVID.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":68.21,"start":62.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"So there's maybe one or two other people around waiting for appointments or waiting in line.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":73.25,"start":68.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But thinking like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":74.83,"start":73.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"kind of resisting the urge to say, were you part of this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":79.61,"start":74.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Did this happen to you?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":81.15,"start":79.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Like did you have a procedure without fentanyl?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":83.3,"start":81.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And then going in and seeing my nurse team, and also empathizing with them and thinking, like did this is going on?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":90.66,"start":83.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"What's your perception of this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":93.95,"start":90.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And what was your experience of this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":95.61,"start":93.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But knowing that I'm sure they were very sternly told not to talk to anybody about any of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":102.55,"start":95.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":104.46,"start":102.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But then you also --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":105.97,"start":104.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I think for me, it was also not understanding where the failure in the system was.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":110.552,"start":105.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Uh-huh.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":111.51,"start":110.552}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"So not really knowing what to ask or who to ask even.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":115.71,"start":111.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Like it thinking about it now, it feels like it would have been gossiping.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":120.18,"start":115.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But it's not gossiping really to say to your care team, this happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":125.91,"start":120.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Are you making sure this isn't going to happen to me again?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":128.49,"start":125.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":131,"start":128.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Why do they not care that there were numerous women who were in excruciating pain?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":138.65,"start":131.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And they didn't care.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":141.35,"start":138.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I get stuck there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":143.84,"start":141.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The staffers I spoke to did care, and yet this happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":148.43,"start":143.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":151.38,"start":148.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"From Serial Productions and \"The New York Times,\" I'm Susan Burton, and this is \"The Retrievals.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":157.05,"start":151.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is episode four, The Clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":160.343,"start":157.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[THEME MUSIC]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":163.45,"start":160.353}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was hard to find staffers who were willing to speak about what happened at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":187.11,"start":182.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of the reticence had to do with the fact that there's an ongoing lawsuit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":191.06,"start":187.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Six months after Donna was sentenced, several patients filed a complaint against Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":195.123,"start":191.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 1^","text":"We have another big story we're following right now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":198.29,"start":195.123}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 1^","text":"Seven women have filed a lawsuit against Yale University Medical School.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":201.957,"start":198.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 2^","text":"And this is really unbelievable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":204.29,"start":201.957}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 2^","text":"The women say they were given saline instead of fentanyl during --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":208.13,"start":204.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Over the next few months after that, more and more patients joined.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":211.76,"start":208.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING 3^","text":"Well, first on Fox 61 tonight, dozens more women are coming forward to sue Yale University nearly a year after a former Yale nurse was sentenced for tampering with fentanyl vials at a fertility clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":223.49,"start":211.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now, there are almost 70 patients in the lawsuit in all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":227.6,"start":223.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But the lawsuit says about how long Donna was doing this is a lot longer than what she says about how long she was doing it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":236.63,"start":227.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna told investigators that she started stealing fentanyl and replacing it with saline in June 2020 when the clinic was located in a suburb of New Haven.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":246.68,"start":236.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But patients and their lawyers believe that she began doing it before then when the clinic was located in New Haven proper.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":254.09,"start":246.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"About half the patients in the lawsuit say they experienced severe pain before June 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":259.82,"start":254.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some as far back as 2017.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":262.91,"start":259.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Here's Lynn, a special ed teacher who had, maybe you remember this number from the first episode, eight painful retrievals at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":271.91,"start":262.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"When I did find out the dates that she had admitted to, I was angry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":278.96,"start":271.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I am confident that this was happening while they were still in the New Haven office.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":284.93,"start":278.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And again, it's too coincidental that I experienced this excruciating pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":291.59,"start":284.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I know with my heart that she was doing this in New Haven and affected a lot more women than during that five-month period that she admitted to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":305.58,"start":291.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Again, Donna did not respond to my request to speak for this story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":311.07,"start":305.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"200 patients may have been affected during the five-month period Donna admits to stealing fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":317.34,"start":311.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If she started earlier, she could have affected 100 more.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":320.82,"start":317.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of the lawyers who represents Lynn and other patients is named Josh Koskoff.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":329.31,"start":324.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He's well known for his suit against the gun manufacturer in the Sandy Hook school shooting and the related case against Alex Jones.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":337.47,"start":329.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Early on, when Josh started getting calls from a lot of patients who said this had happened to them before June 2020, he felt like he should share that information.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":346.44,"start":337.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He contacted the US Attorney's office and --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":349.8,"start":346.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JOSH KOSKOFF^","text":"I think more importantly is what I did was I also notified Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":353.94,"start":349.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JOSH KOSKOFF^","text":"Once we started to hear from a lot of women outside this time period, I thought, well, Yale deemed it appropriate to notify the women that they knew might have been exposed in the six-month period.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":365.74,"start":353.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JOSH KOSKOFF^","text":"So surely, they would want to notify --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":368.28,"start":365.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JOSH KOSKOFF^","text":"it would be important for them to know that I believe this is going on for longer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":372.432,"start":368.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JOSH KOSKOFF^","text":"And I notified them and asked them what they were going to do about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":375.39,"start":372.432}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JOSH KOSKOFF^","text":"I shared that information.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":378.03,"start":375.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JOSH KOSKOFF^","text":"And to my knowledge, they didn't act.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":382.26,"start":378.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When I presented this to Yale they responded that the Department of Justice had conducted a thorough investigation and concluded that this took place specifically from June through October 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":397.73,"start":382.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale declined to make anyone in a position of oversight available for an interview with me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":402.89,"start":397.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But I did talk to staffers, people who worked at the clinic alongside Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":408.51,"start":402.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You won't be hearing from them on tape.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":410.28,"start":408.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"None of them wanted to be identified for fear of being retaliated against or losing a job.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":417.51,"start":410.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't think it's going to come as a surprise that I didn't talk to any doctors who were like, yeah, for months, patient after patient was screaming and cursing me out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":425.03,"start":417.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And looking back, I guess I should have done something about that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":428.55,"start":425.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If there is such a callous doctor, they did not respond to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":432.62,"start":428.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The people I talked to were talking to me because they were troubled by what had gone on at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":437.97,"start":432.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of them had left.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":440.06,"start":437.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But this wasn't about a vendetta, as one staffer put it to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":444.44,"start":440.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This was about telling what happened to prevent it from happening again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":448.16,"start":444.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I wish I could write about the staffers, like I've written about the women as a cohort with a shared experience and also as individuals whose identity shaped the way they made sense of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":462.62,"start":451.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But I can't offer details about anyone I spoke to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":466.07,"start":462.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This makes the way I approach the story of the clinic a little more forensic, a little more procedural, a little more like a case study in drug diversion, which is what stealing drugs in a medical setting is called.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":479.27,"start":466.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And this clinic could be a case study in how that happens and how it is missed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":484.1,"start":479.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm going to start the story in an office the clinic occupied for years, an office in an older building in a medical complex off I-95.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":497.73,"start":489.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The Long Wharf exit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":499.68,"start":497.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And I'm going to start in the retrieval room with the drugs they use there, fentanyl and midazolam.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":505.53,"start":499.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"These drugs are one of the first things most staffers I talked wanted to make sure I understood.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":511.26,"start":505.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's a lot of variation in the way patients responded to these drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":515.6,"start":511.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some were out of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":516.99,"start":515.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some were alert, even giddy, singing along to the pop songs, playing at a low volume on the radio.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":523.539,"start":516.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And for some patients, the drugs were not effective enough.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":526.87,"start":523.549}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Even the maximum dose of fentanyl was not enough to manage their pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":531.58,"start":526.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Even when that fentanyl was actually fentanyl, the highest dose might not be enough for a bunch of reasons, like existing tolerance to narcotics, challenging anatomy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":543.01,"start":531.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sometimes a patient would be in so much pain that she would be kicking and screaming.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":548.08,"start":543.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How often would something like that happen?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":551.08,"start":548.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One or two times a year was when answer I got.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":554.89,"start":551.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another person said even less.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":557.77,"start":554.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So that kind of extreme response was unusual, but not unknown.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":563.65,"start":557.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But these drugs didn't treat pain 100 percent for all patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":569.56,"start":563.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"With the medication approach that was used at Long Wharf, one staffer told me, this procedure can hurt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":576.718,"start":569.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":580.204,"start":576.728}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Maybe 25 years ago, moderate sedation, like this fentanyl and midazolam combo, used to be standard retrievals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":591.27,"start":584.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But it's not anymore.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":593.43,"start":591.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Today, what's more common is deeper sedation with propofol administered by an anesthesiologist or nurse anesthetist.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":601.29,"start":593.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At Long Wharf, a fertility nurse gave the drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":604.47,"start":601.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And there was a limit to how much they were allowed to administer.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":609.75,"start":604.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When I told one fertility doctor from another clinic what Yale had used at Long Wharf she said, I'm shocked they do that with fentanyl and midazolam.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":617.16,"start":609.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In my opinion, that is not enough for this procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":620.31,"start":617.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She wondered if it was a money saving thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":623.94,"start":620.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But another doctor, who'd done hundreds of retrievals with fentanyl and midazolam back in the day and sometimes still does, said in her experience, this combination was absolutely fine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":634.59,"start":623.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That as long as it was working properly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":636.72,"start":634.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There wasn't anything wrong with using it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":640.9,"start":636.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And staffers at Long Wharf said that retrievals were generally fine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":644.76,"start":640.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But they wanted deeper sedation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":647.22,"start":644.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The bottom line is that you want patients to be comfortable for their own sake, and because comfort is necessary for safety.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":655.08,"start":647.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's a long needle inside the pelvic cavity.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":658.05,"start":655.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sudden movement presents a risk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":661.98,"start":658.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I wondered why Long Wharf didn't have deeper sedation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":665.46,"start":661.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Staffers had different and often vague understandings of the reason.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":669.73,"start":665.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Something about the oxygen access, one staffer said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":674.38,"start":669.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But whatever the practical reason for not getting better anesthesia was, there was also a cultural one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":681.52,"start":674.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's a ton of just inertia in trying to get things done at Yale, the staffer said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":686.89,"start":681.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And I think if someone in a position of administrative leadership decides that something is not that important, then it just doesn't happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":693.475,"start":686.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So this is the baseline.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":702.34,"start":700.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is the context.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":704.31,"start":702.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For years and years, Yale is giving these drugs that offer a relatively light level of sedation for this procedure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":711.83,"start":704.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Patient response to these drugs varies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":714.72,"start":711.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some pain has been normalized.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":718.44,"start":714.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of the things I wanted to know from staffers was if there was a point when they'd started seeing more pain than usual.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":725.14,"start":718.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Nobody could identify an exact date.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":728.57,"start":725.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But some people did remember something changing before June 2020, the date Donna confessed to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":735.17,"start":728.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As one staffer put it, I remember a shift in feeling like we were doing things reasonably well and pretty much achieving our goals of minimizing pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":744.29,"start":735.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then gradually, it didn't seem like we were.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":748.01,"start":744.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A nurse recalled, I remember distinctly times a patient would say, oh, my God, I feel everything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":754.91,"start":748.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I looked at the physician and said, I gave the max.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":757.22,"start":754.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What can I give?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":759.01,"start":757.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Whether it was water, I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":761.05,"start":759.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In hindsight, it makes you think it had been water.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":765.35,"start":761.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Not everyone was seeing this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":767.69,"start":765.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Retrievals were divided up among a lot of different doctors and nurses at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":771.98,"start":767.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Often, doctors weren't even doing retrievals on their own patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":775.79,"start":771.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But staffers who did register that something seemed off started coming up with theories to explain it, stories, the way everyone here did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":783.77,"start":775.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One theory was just the basic, we need better anesthesia.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":791.41,"start":786.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another, there was a new manager, and there was a lot of frustration with her.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":796.15,"start":791.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Nurses were leaving the clinic, and those who remained were spread thin.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":800.5,"start":796.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Could that have something to do with it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":803.02,"start":800.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But also, and this was the theory I heard most consistently, maybe it was because of this one doctor, someone who didn't have great hands, as one staffer put it to me, or a great bedside manner.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":818.17,"start":803.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One staffer told me that all of the nurses were talking about how, in retrievals, this doctor would be like, if you don't stop yelling, I'm just going to leave.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":828.07,"start":818.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another recalled of this doctor that, quote, their response was more often kind of an impatient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":833.38,"start":828.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I can't do this unless you stop moving, kind of almost scolding the patients for the discomfort that they were having.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":841.06,"start":833.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"During this time, a doctor from Yale's family planning service was invited to the clinic to speak to staffers about how to be more gentle during procedures.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":850.4,"start":841.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some staffers were offended by the idea that they needed a refresher course.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":854.69,"start":850.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One said, we had this very sort of condescending talk about how to treat our patients and how to be empathic and responsive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":862.43,"start":854.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I mean, the whole thing was just like, what is happening here?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":865.28,"start":862.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Are we all being subject to this insulting training because of one person?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":868.685,"start":865.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One theory that none of the staffers I talked to had was that a colleague was stealing drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":877.04,"start":871.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's usually how it works with diversion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":879.5,"start":877.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"People don't suspect their coworkers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":883.12,"start":879.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But increased complaints of pain are a known sign of drug diversion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":887.11,"start":883.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And leadership is responsible for seeing the big picture.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":890.56,"start":887.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And if a manager was aware enough of pain to invite someone to speak on it, they should have investigated all possible reasons for the pain, including the drug supply.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":899.59,"start":890.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Probably, the most basic step in preventing diversion is how you handle and store the drugs in the first place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":911.44,"start":904.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At Long Wharf, these systems were not great.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":914.65,"start":911.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For one, the Long Wharf clinic didn't have a Pyxis, a kind of secure vending machine for drugs that records each transaction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":924.44,"start":914.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A machine is not a solution for poor oversight, and not every outpatient setting has one of these machines.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":931.49,"start":924.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But two patients who worked as nurses were shocked that the clinic didn't have a Pyxis.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":936.17,"start":931.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I can't even take something as simple as a Tylenol out of the Pyxis without somebody wanting to know which patient it went to, when it was given, how much was given, one of them told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":945.17,"start":936.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A staffer at the Yale clinic told me that when they wandered to a manager why they didn't have a Pyxis, they were told Yale didn't want to buy one because it was too expensive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":958.02,"start":947.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The way drugs are procured is supposed to be tightly regulated too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":961.8,"start":958.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because obviously, that's a point where they could be pocketed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":965.19,"start":961.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At Long Wharf, at least some of the clinic's drugs came from Walgreens, including fentanyl, like it was somebody's job to run out to Walgreens and pick up fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":975,"start":965.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It sounds weird, and it was, even to people who worked at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":980.43,"start":975}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Staffers told me that when Donna had this job, she had often been insistent in trying to get doctors to sign the prescriptions she needed for the drugstore.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":990.25,"start":980.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One staffer remembered, she'd be very, very, very aggressive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":994.87,"start":990.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another said that Donna was constantly harassing fellows to write scripts for patients that were going to be done the following week.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1003.18,"start":994.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At the time, both of these staffers attributed this to a kind of mania for organization, but both also clocked it as odd.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1010.86,"start":1003.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was, OK, she's like super efficient, one of them said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1014.4,"start":1010.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's trying to get her job done so she can go home to her kids, take her kids to their activities.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1019.74,"start":1014.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In early 2020, the clinic moved out of the Long Wharf office to a newly renovated building in Orange.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1030.93,"start":1023.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Almost immediately, the pandemic started.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1034.02,"start":1030.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One patient remembers shaking her doctor's hand on like March 8, and the handshake already feeling a little strange.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1041.77,"start":1034.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The clinic shut down for a while.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1043.72,"start":1041.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And by the time things started up again, it was June 2020, the month that Donna says she started stealing fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1051.862,"start":1043.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1054.688,"start":1051.872}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At the new building, there were new drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1060.05,"start":1057.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now, patients were offered deeper sedation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1063.26,"start":1060.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Anesthesiologists came to the clinic for most retrievals, adding powerful sedatives like propofol into the mix with fentanyl and midazolam.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1072.19,"start":1063.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some staffers noticed a difference right away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1075.34,"start":1072.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patients were more deeply asleep, one of them said to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1079.06,"start":1075.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was more like a full on surgery.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1081.52,"start":1079.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"By comparison, they looked tremendously comfortable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1085.96,"start":1081.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But propofol, isn't a pain drug.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1088.57,"start":1085.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It just kind of knocks you out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1090.88,"start":1088.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And to the fertility doctors, that deeper sedation likely masked the fact that some patients weren't getting fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1100.59,"start":1090.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So in the procedure room, some patients appeared comfortable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1104.68,"start":1100.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But in the recovery room, some of them came to in severe pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1109.23,"start":1104.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At home, some continued to feel severe pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1113.94,"start":1109.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And that part didn't make sense to several doctors I spoke to, people not from Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1120.48,"start":1113.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Fentanyl is short acting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1122.55,"start":1120.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Maybe it would cover pain for up to a half hour after the procedure ends.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1126.51,"start":1122.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But that's probably it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1128.8,"start":1126.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So how to explain the severe pain patients felt hours later or the next day?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1134.52,"start":1128.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"People I talked to didn't doubt the patients were in severe pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1138.15,"start":1134.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They just didn't know where it was coming from.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1141.92,"start":1138.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But any patient in severe pain after an egg retrieval should not have been discharged, doctors said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1148.22,"start":1141.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's just not supposed to hurt that much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1150.32,"start":1148.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And severe pain is a sign that something might be really wrong.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1154.082,"start":1150.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1157.526,"start":1154.092}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When Donna got to Orange, she basically took over the drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1170.39,"start":1165.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In March 2020, two months before she says she started stealing fentanyl, she completed an application with the DEA that allowed her to sign controlled substance orders.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1181.88,"start":1170.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She was in charge of ordering drugs for the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1184.595,"start":1181.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The room where the drugs were stored was sometimes unlocked, and Donna was able to enter without swiping her access card.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1195.74,"start":1187.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Obviously, things went wrong with this setup.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1198.83,"start":1195.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And even more things went wrong with this setup than were reflected in Donna's criminal case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1205.77,"start":1198.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Days after the loose cap was first discovered, the DEA investigated the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1211.11,"start":1205.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Their audit found that a lot of drugs went missing under Donna's watch.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1215.82,"start":1211.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"6 percent of the ketamine, 24 percent percent of the midazolam, 35 percent of the fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1223.41,"start":1215.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is in addition to vials she tampered with.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1227.07,"start":1223.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"These are hundreds of other missing vials that just who knows what happened to them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1233.37,"start":1227.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's possible that this was just very bad record keeping.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1236.85,"start":1233.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The records from this time are messy, handwritten logs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1240.27,"start":1236.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But was Donna also stealing the midazolam and the ketamine?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1243.93,"start":1240.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is speculation to ask, but it is also weird not to ask, given that she was stealing the fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1249.675,"start":1243.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"No matter what happened with those drugs, these are serious discrepancies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1258.42,"start":1253.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale agreed to pay the DEA $308,000 fine to settle these and other violations of the Controlled Substances Act.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1267.99,"start":1258.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So that's accountability on a regulatory level.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1272.16,"start":1267.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On a personnel level, just who was or was not looking at those logs?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1277.53,"start":1272.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Who was managing Donna?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1280.56,"start":1277.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A staffer I spoke to emphasized the lack of oversight during this time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1284.85,"start":1280.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The nurse manager was new, and it was summer 2020, the pandemic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1290.46,"start":1284.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The clinic was operating with a skeleton crew, is how this staffer described it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1295.71,"start":1290.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A lot was happening on Telemedicine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1298.71,"start":1295.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In retrospect, it was ripe for abuse, the staffer said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1303.8,"start":1298.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1307.23,"start":1303.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The pandemic made it easier for Donna to hide what she was doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1315.87,"start":1311.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But there is one thing that would have been very hard for her to disguise, how did nobody notice that she'd tampered with the vials, especially the caps?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1326.52,"start":1315.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"People I talked to who work with fentanyl vials were just kind of blown away by that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1331.22,"start":1326.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The caps on these vials pop off, and it would be impossible to reseal them the way they came.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1338.53,"start":1331.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Of course, ultimately, an anesthesiologist did notice a loose cap.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1342.98,"start":1338.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And now, the problem wasn't that the fentanyl diversion was hidden.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1346.85,"start":1342.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The problem was with how it would be addressed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1349.43,"start":1346.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The loose cap was discovered on a Friday.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1357.03,"start":1354.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the following week, the news was shared, fentanyl was missing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1362.29,"start":1357.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was almost immediately clear that Donna was under suspicion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1366.66,"start":1362.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Poor Donna, one staffer remembers a manager saying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1371.25,"start":1366.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The staffer thought, poor Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1373.83,"start":1371.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Poor patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1376.17,"start":1373.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Lawyers advised staffers not to talk about this even among themselves.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1381.78,"start":1376.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was all basically about protecting Yale, one staffer remembered.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1386.13,"start":1381.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Nobody cared about anything that we went through as providers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1389.46,"start":1386.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"No one cared what patients went through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1391.62,"start":1389.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was all just sort of minimizing this as much as quickly as possible.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1397.12,"start":1391.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The staffers I talked to emphasized that what they went through was nothing compared to what the patients went through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1402.84,"start":1397.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But they had also been betrayed by Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1405.42,"start":1402.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And now, they had to wrestle with the repercussions of that, what cues they might have missed, what it meant to have caused pain to their patients, or to not have recognized the pain they were in, or the reason for it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1418.86,"start":1405.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Obviously, they were going to talk about it with one another.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1422.41,"start":1418.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I mean, there was constant talking, one staffer said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1425.35,"start":1422.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That just wasn't realistic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1426.88,"start":1425.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'm sorry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1427.51,"start":1426.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's crazy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1428.75,"start":1427.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We can't keep working and not vent and provide support to each other.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1432.31,"start":1428.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Six weeks after the loose camp was discovered, Yale sent out that letter that infuriated patients, staffers too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1446.01,"start":1438.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I found that letter so offensive, said one of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1450.23,"start":1446.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The letter was an official story, Yale told about these events.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1454.54,"start":1450.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the staffer and some of the patients had the same reaction to this story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1458.56,"start":1454.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As it was told in the letter and would be told later, the story evaded.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1464.25,"start":1458.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It blame shifted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1465.99,"start":1464.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It focused attention onto a person and away from the institution.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1471.27,"start":1465.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It's a language that doesn't take responsibility.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1477.06,"start":1471.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It individuates the problem.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1479.44,"start":1477.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"So here's this woman, who was troubled, who took advantage of an otherwise, impeccably well-oiled machine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1489.75,"start":1479.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And again, it's not like what can we do to never have this happen again but more, oh, well, it was her fault. She's gone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1502.41,"start":1489.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"I think if it wasn't Donna, it could have been anybody else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1507.51,"start":1502.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"They didn't create an environment where there were checks and balances, where there was a proper policy and procedure in place that there were ways to mitigate risk.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1517.68,"start":1507.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"It was like, oh, here's this problem.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1519.96,"start":1517.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"We've now eliminated the problem.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1522.16,"start":1519.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But there was a whole system of enablers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1525.1,"start":1522.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"There was a whole system that helped prop Donna up, excused her behavior, and then threw her out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1534.33,"start":1525.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is a source of deep frustration for many of us that the party line up and down has been about one bad egg, a staffer told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1542.52,"start":1534.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I would have liked to see my institution acknowledge mistakes, apologize to patients for a systemic failure on Yale's part, take ownership, and clearly outline steps to prevent this from ever happening again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1556.656,"start":1542.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1560.058,"start":1556.666}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Two former staffers gave me the same reason for leaving the clinic, that they felt they could not provide good patient care.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1573.93,"start":1565.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To be, quote, \"not proud of the carrier providing and constantly apologizing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1579.03,"start":1573.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's just exhausting,\" one staffer said to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1582.77,"start":1579.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In the end, the staffer felt that good patient care was not the driving force at Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1588.05,"start":1582.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It wore me down.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1589.58,"start":1588.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I got really tired of feeling like I was expressing the same patient care concerns and either being told that someone was working on it, or that it wasn't an issue.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1598.995,"start":1589.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1602.32,"start":1599.005}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"While Yale declined to answer almost all of my questions, they did offer me a statement.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1612.28,"start":1605.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale deeply regrets the distress suffered by some of its patients when a former nurse at the Yale fertility center diverted pain medication intended for patient procedures.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1622.84,"start":1612.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"After Yale discovered the nurse's misconduct, it removed her from the center, alerted law enforcement agencies, and notified patients who might have been affected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1632.59,"start":1622.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The center also reviewed its procedures and made changes to further oversight of pain control and controlled substances.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1641.75,"start":1632.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That phrase, pain control.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1645.68,"start":1641.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It wasn't part of the earliest statements Yale gave about these events, at least not the ones I've seen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1652.64,"start":1645.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As if it took them a while to understand the issue here, not just the institution's failure to control drugs, the institution's failure to control pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1664.43,"start":1652.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How to think about that pain as a patient and as a practitioner?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1670.24,"start":1664.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's coming up after the break when episode four of the Retrievals continues.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1675.723,"start":1670.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1679.034,"start":1675.733}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Early on in my reporting, a staffer suggested to me that not all of the patients in the lawsuit had actually been victims of Donna's crime.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1692.59,"start":1683.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Could their pain just be the reality of the retrieval?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1696.45,"start":1692.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the moment, I did not know what to make of the suggestion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1699.54,"start":1696.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What would it mean for me to consider the question that maybe not all of the patients had been victims?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1705.57,"start":1699.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In situations that involve disbelief, questioning can be construed as doubt.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1711.46,"start":1705.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And to be clear, the staffer was sensitive to these nuances too, emphasizing that no matter what, these patients had been betrayed by the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1721.72,"start":1711.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah told me on that original Department of Justice call, this was, quote, \"the million dollar question.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1729.33,"start":1721.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How do I know if this happened to me?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1731.73,"start":1729.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the answer was, you don't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1735.94,"start":1731.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"My answer to this question is that the underlying issues are still the same.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1741.01,"start":1735.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Patients reported severe, unexpected pain, and that pain was not properly addressed, and maybe hadn't been for years before these events.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1750.87,"start":1741.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For example, after hearing this podcast, a patient who had undergone a painful retrieval at the clinic some years ago contacted me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1759.68,"start":1750.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Soon after her retrieval, she'd complained in writing, asking why Yale didn't offer, quote, \"additional pain control options during egg retrievals similar to those offered at other fertility centers here in Connecticut, such as propofol.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1774.61,"start":1759.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"After a follow up meeting to address this and other issues, a doctor in a leadership position emailed the patient a list of action items.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1782.95,"start":1774.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We'll work on making anesthesia available to our patients, he wrote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1787.89,"start":1782.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That was in 2014.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1791.62,"start":1787.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When this patient heard this podcast, it was like she was hearing the story of her own retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1797.05,"start":1791.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I was crying out in pain, she told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1800.68,"start":1797.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Before the retrieval, a nurse had assured this patient that she would hold her hand to help her through it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1806.94,"start":1800.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't want your hand, the patient remembers thinking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1810.15,"start":1806.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I want the drugs I had for my dental surgery.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1814.03,"start":1810.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Even a decade later, her retrieval is a trauma she does not speak about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1820.34,"start":1814.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Patients say that Yale dismissed the pain they reported.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1824.05,"start":1820.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Offering inadequate pain control is another way of dismissing pain, another way of saying, this doesn't matter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1832.51,"start":1824.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's upsetting either way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1834.82,"start":1832.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Whether patients were in pain because their drugs were stolen or because the drugs the clinic used were just not enough for too many patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1842.905,"start":1834.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When a patient is in pain during a retrieval, what do the people in the room with her feel?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1854.79,"start":1848.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Let's walk it through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1856.62,"start":1854.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Let's walk through the essential unit of this story about the Yale clinic, the retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1862.86,"start":1856.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Here's how it worked at Long Wharf.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1865.59,"start":1862.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The doctor would walk into the room.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1868.11,"start":1865.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Lights are dim.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1869.49,"start":1868.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Patient already there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1872.37,"start":1869.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Once the patient was sedated, the doctor would begin.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1876.1,"start":1872.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If the patient flinched, the doctor would stop, ask the nurse to give more meds, wait for them to kick in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1883.69,"start":1876.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If the meds still didn't work, the same thing again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1887.54,"start":1883.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then if there were no more times to stop, no more fentanyl to give, the doctor might say something have, you have this many follicles left.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1895.75,"start":1887.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Would you like me to stop or keep going?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1899.01,"start":1895.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And most of the patients would say, keep going.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1903.74,"start":1899.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's competing interests, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1905.69,"start":1903.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One Yale staffer said to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1908.22,"start":1905.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They're uncomfortable, but they want to have a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1910.685,"start":1908.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is an impossible position for the patient, of course.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1919.83,"start":1916.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patient is saying, yes, I want this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1922.58,"start":1919.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But what else could they say?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1924.9,"start":1922.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"By this point in their treatment, there's already so much they've submitted to and so much control they've relinquished.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1931.3,"start":1924.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And there's a time sensitivity.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1933.85,"start":1931.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A doctor doesn't have all day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1936.28,"start":1933.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's only a window of a couple hours to get this done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1940.03,"start":1936.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"After that, the patient will ovulate and lose all of her eggs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1945.76,"start":1940.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's an awareness of what's come before this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1948.55,"start":1945.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Money, time, maybe previous losses.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1952.15,"start":1948.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The last shot before the insurance runs out.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1955.72,"start":1952.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's not a life saving procedure, one Yale staffer said to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1960.31,"start":1955.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But also, I don't think elective is the right word to use for something that's allowing someone to build a family when they otherwise aren't able to.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1969.48,"start":1960.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Doctors know what the patient has put into this and what she wants out of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1974.76,"start":1969.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Each time I'm doing a retrieval and getting follicles, a doctor from another clinic said to me, I remind myself that this egg could be the baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1983.31,"start":1974.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But getting through a painful retrieval does not feel good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1991.49,"start":1987.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's awful, one staffer from Yale told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1994.97,"start":1991.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's not why I went into medicine, to cause people pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1998.465,"start":1994.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So what are the people in the room with a patient feeling?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2004.71,"start":2001.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A lot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2006.27,"start":2004.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's not that they aren't aware of pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2008.7,"start":2006.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's that they're attuned to multiple varieties of it, including the pain of longing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2014.025,"start":2008.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patient puts up with the pain because she longs to have a child.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2020.82,"start":2016.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The doctor knows the depth of that longing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2024.3,"start":2020.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Getting the eggs causes one kind of pain but relieves another.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2029.831,"start":2024.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2033.268,"start":2029.841}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The literature on pain and fertility procedures is, for the most part, very concrete.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2047.58,"start":2042.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What should we use for pain rather than how should we think about it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2052.02,"start":2047.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But I did come across one study with a more holistic approach.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2056.4,"start":2052.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A paper on, quote, \"trust pain and exit points.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2061.56,"start":2056.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This paper explored why patients chose to endure the pain of fertility treatment and what experiences of pain made them quit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2070.139,"start":2061.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was an idiosyncratic paper, kind of a mix of the sociological and the personal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2074.82,"start":2070.149}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And the research had been done 20 years ago in Israel, in a setting where egg retrievals were done via an incision through the abdomen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2083.409,"start":2074.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But what still felt applicable, actually what felt timeless, was the author's conclusion that you endure the pain of fertility treatment because you, in a way, are already a mother.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2094.81,"start":2083.409}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You are in the future in which you are already a mother, and you are suffering on behalf of your children.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2102.85,"start":2094.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Put aside the notion that suffering on behalf of your children is intrinsic to motherhood or that all fertility patients want to be mothers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2110.47,"start":2102.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Of course, there are patients who would not use this word or find that identity relevant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2115.84,"start":2110.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What's meaningful here is that you put up with the pain and the present because of how badly you want what you want in the future, whether that is a particular identity or anything else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2127.165,"start":2115.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So that's why patients stayed in fertility treatment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2136.84,"start":2133.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Why did patients leave?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2139.9,"start":2136.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A higher level of hurt is required than that of pain or humiliation alone, the doctors wrote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2146.41,"start":2139.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Only when the women felt that the treatment endangered their physical or mental existence that the women quit their IVF treatments.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2154.737,"start":2146.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2158.216,"start":2154.747}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of the ill patients did stop fertility treatment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2165.68,"start":2162.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Most kept going, and most who did had babies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2169.88,"start":2165.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's what matters, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2173.07,"start":2169.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The baby is just one outcome.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2175.54,"start":2173.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What do the other ones look like for the patients and for Donna?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2181.17,"start":2175.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's next on the final episode of The Retrievals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2185.267,"start":2181.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2188.746,"start":2185.277}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The Retrievals is produced by me and Laura Starecheski.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2205.87,"start":2202.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Laura edited the series with editing and producing help from Julie Snyder.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2210.58,"start":2205.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Additional editing by Katie Mingle and Ira Glass.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2214,"start":2210.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Research and fact checking by Ben Phelan and Caitlin Love.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2217.74,"start":2214}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Music supervision, sound design, and mixing by Phoebe Wang.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2221.68,"start":2217.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Original music by Carla Polone, and music mixing by Thoma Polley.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2226.84,"start":2221.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Indie Chubut is the supervising producer for Serial Productions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2230.74,"start":2226.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At \"The New York Times,\" our standards editor is Susan Wesling.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2234.49,"start":2230.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Legal review by Dana Green.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2236.83,"start":2234.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Art direction from Pablo Delcan.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2239.23,"start":2236.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Producing help from Jeffrey Miranda, Kelly Doe, Renan Borelli, Desiree Ibekwe, and Anisha Muni.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2246.37,"start":2239.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Sam Dolnick is the assistant managing editor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2250.28,"start":2246.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Special thanks to Marcel Cedars, Lindsay Goucher, Cara Murray, Megan Olson, Shannon Page, Rebecca Phelan, Lisa Szuchman, Maggie Smith, and Adam Starecheski.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2264.14,"start":2250.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The Retrievals is a production of Serial Productions and \"The New York Times.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2269.12,"start":2264.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2272.47,"start":2269.13}}]},"credit":"","fileUrl":"https:\u002F\u002Fnyt.simplecastaudio.com\u002F415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d\u002Fepisodes\u002Fe13822a8-058c-47e3-ad71-76ec5dfb5126\u002Faudio\u002F128\u002Fdefault.mp3?awCollectionId=415ae1b2-1914-4e81-9b92-5282411d575d&awEpisodeId=e13822a8-058c-47e3-ad71-76ec5dfb5126&nocache","firstPublished":"2023-07-25T06:25:45.000Z","headline":{"__typename":"CreativeWorkHeadline","default":"Episode 4: The Clinic"},"id":"QXVkaW86bnl0Oi8vYXVkaW8vYTliZTBkMjMtZDAwNi01NTg2LThlNWYtODA5ZTc2YzI4ZjIz","length":2280,"podcastSeries":{"__typename":"AudioPodcastSeries","image":{"__typename":"Image","crops":[{"__typename":"ImageCrop","renditions":[{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":75,"name":"thumbStandard","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2023\u002F06\u002F20\u002Fpodcasts\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art-thumbStandard.jpg","width":75},{"__typename":"ImageRendition","height":150,"name":"thumbLarge","url":"https:\u002F\u002Fstatic01.nyt.com\u002Fimages\u002F2023\u002F06\u002F20\u002Fpodcasts\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art\u002Fserial-the-retrievals-album-art-thumbLarge.jpg","width":150}]}],"id":"SW1hZ2U6bnl0Oi8vaW1hZ2UvYjRjYzZhMDUtNzJiNC01MjFkLTg3OTAtOGRlNDIxMTQ1MTM2"},"name":"the-retrievals","summary":"They were women trying to become mothers. Their nurse was a mother whose life was falling apart. The doctors didn’t see what was happening to any of them until it was too late. \n\n\u002F\u002FDozens of women seeking to become mothers came to a fertility clinic at Yale. A (five-part) narrative series about the shocking events that unfolded there.","title":"The Retrievals"},"promotionalHeadline":"Episode 4: The Clinic","section":{"__typename":"Section","id":"U2VjdGlvbjpueXQ6Ly9zZWN0aW9uLzExMDc5OTg3LWFlOGQtNWY1Zi04YzJlLThjNjZkMzM3ZDJiYQ==","name":"podcasts"},"sourceId":"100000009010951","summary":"","uri":"nyt:\u002F\u002Faudio\u002Fa9be0d23-d006-5586-8e5f-809e76c28f23"}},{"__typename":"Dropzone","adsDesktop":false,"adsDesktopHoldout":false,"adsHybrid":false,"adsMobile":false,"adsMobileHoldout":false,"bad":false,"index":12},{"__typename":"ParagraphBlock","content":[{"__typename":"TextInline","formats":[],"text":"What we know about what happened at the clinic."}],"textAlign":"LEFT"},{"__typename":"AudioBlock","media":{"__typename":"Audio","audioTranscript":{"__typename":"AudioTranscript","transcriptFragment":[{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"","text":"This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email transcripts@nytimes.com with any questions.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2.73,"start":0.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women get pregnant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":4.88,"start":2.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of them see it begin.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":7.26,"start":4.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They see it begin at the clinic, in the same place where they had their retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":12.51,"start":7.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On the ultrasound screen, they watch as the embryo is placed in their uterus.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":17.42,"start":12.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of the pregnancies stick.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":19.69,"start":17.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Esha's is one of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":21.61,"start":19.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The single embryo she implants divides in two, and she finds herself carrying twins.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":27.74,"start":21.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They're born in the spring eight weeks early.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":30.68,"start":27.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And after Isha delivers, she goes back to her OB for her own follow-up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":35.51,"start":30.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"After I delivered, I went in for my six-week postpartum visit to meet with my doctor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":42.77,"start":35.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And it somehow came up in conversation that I was part of this suit that was going on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":51.26,"start":42.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And she looked at me and she said, well, what's the big deal?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":57.27,"start":51.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"I mean, you ended up pregnant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":60.56,"start":57.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And she's not the first provider that said that to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":63.71,"start":60.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"I'm actually in the process of switching psychiatrists, because I had a similar experience with her recently where she said, I really don't get what the big deal is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":73.31,"start":63.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"You were successful.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":74.84,"start":73.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"You got pregnant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":75.98,"start":74.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"What's the problem?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":78.39,"start":75.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Wow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":79.46,"start":78.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"I -- wow.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":81.29,"start":79.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"I mean, yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":82.64,"start":81.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"I mean, just what a thing to say.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":86.54,"start":82.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"As if the only thing that matters is that single outcome and not the entire process.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":95.39,"start":86.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"I mean, yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":98.27,"start":95.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Outcomes of fertility treatment are typically measured by the numbers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":102.11,"start":98.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The CDC collects data.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":104.24,"start":102.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You can go online and look up a clinic and find out what percentage of egg retrievals result in live births.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":111.51,"start":104.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But the outcomes here can't be expressed by existing options on a dropdown menu.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":116.79,"start":111.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some of these outcomes are not concrete.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":119.78,"start":116.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And just like the initial experience of pain, some of the outcomes are questioned.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":125.21,"start":119.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Really, what are their damages?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":127.16,"start":125.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One fertility doctor, someone not from Yale, said to me about the patients in the lawsuit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":133.74,"start":127.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What are the harms done?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":135.77,"start":133.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What are the redressable harms?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":139.02,"start":135.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of the patient's own lawyers told me that when his firm got the first call from a patient, he went home, told his wife the story, then said, but nothing really happened to the woman.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":149.07,"start":139.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So it's not a case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":151.68,"start":149.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"His wife enlightened him.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":155.61,"start":151.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Like Esha, Leia also had a weird interaction with an OB about her experience at the fertility clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":163.22,"start":155.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I was like, yeah, I mean, I had this horrible experience at REI.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":167.61,"start":163.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"The nurse who was stealing the fentanyl.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":169.29,"start":167.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I remember that one of the older doctors, she said to me, well, they took care of that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":175.29,"start":169.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I said, they did?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":176.69,"start":175.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Did they?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":178.29,"start":176.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Again, this is why, at least for me, you start talking about it and someone tells you really politely in a very polite way, could you please shut up?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":189.375,"start":178.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"[LAUGHS]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":190.59,"start":189.385}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Could you kindly shut up?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":193.607,"start":190.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"This is making me uncomfortable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":194.94,"start":193.607}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Please be quiet now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":197.04,"start":194.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"The same thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":198.12,"start":197.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You know, like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":199.26,"start":198.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The same thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":200.79,"start":199.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In a way, it was a repetition.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":203.22,"start":200.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"First, the women's pain was dismissed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":205.56,"start":203.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And now the repercussions were trivialized, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":209.13,"start":205.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's an act of erasure.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":210.93,"start":209.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To be told that the only part of a story that matters is the end.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":214.802,"start":210.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"They want pictures of the baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":216.51,"start":214.802}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Follow up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":217.96,"start":216.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Let us know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":218.61,"start":217.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"They're happy for you when you get pregnant, but the institution itself doesn't seem to care beyond that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":224.16,"start":218.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"Beyond the results and the bottom line.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":226.95,"start":224.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I have a child.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":228.22,"start":226.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"So what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":228.72,"start":228.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I wasn't harmed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":229.83,"start":228.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"I have an embryo still frozen, so I wasn't harmed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":233.4,"start":229.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"That's good enough?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":235.9,"start":233.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"It's not good enough.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":238.76,"start":235.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What are the lasting effects of this experience for the patients?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":242.42,"start":238.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And what are the outcomes for Yale?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":244.69,"start":242.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And for Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":247.67,"start":244.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"From Serial Productions in The New York Times, I'm Susan Burton, and this is \"The Retrievals.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":253.79,"start":247.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is Episode 5, \"The Outcomes.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":257.149,"start":253.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":260.056,"start":257.159}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Back at the beginning of all this, Yale told patients, there's no reason to believe this event has had any negative effect on your health or the outcome of the care that you received.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":289.51,"start":278.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale seem to be saying, your measurable outcomes were not affected by this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":295.3,"start":289.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Some patients wondered how that could be true.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":298.52,"start":295.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I can't say for certainty that we didn't get all of the eggs that could have been retrieved that day.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":306.43,"start":298.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"But my assumption would be when you have a patient on the table screaming that it's painful and we need to stop, that there could have been a much better outcome to that retrieval.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":321.94,"start":306.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A few doctors told me anecdotally about leaving eggs behind when a patient is in pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":327.82,"start":321.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But there's very little research on having retrievals without anesthesia and what the outcomes of that might be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":334.69,"start":327.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's just not a standard category of study.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":337.57,"start":334.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What happens if we do a painful procedure without giving the patient pain meds?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":344.1,"start":337.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allison wound up with a lot fewer eggs than she expected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":347.58,"start":344.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I was just so upset that we didn't have a better outcome.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":352.64,"start":347.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allison is a nurse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":354.05,"start":352.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Actually, a nurse anesthetist.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":356.15,"start":354.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She gives fentanyl on a daily basis.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":359.24,"start":356.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I can't imagine withholding it from somebody, she said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":364.3,"start":359.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allison was skeptical of Yale's assertion that nobody's outcomes could have been affected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":370.18,"start":364.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allison and her husband came to the clinic because they wanted to test embryos for muscular dystrophy to rule out the possibility of passing the gene along.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":380.61,"start":370.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Though Allison was in her early 30s and had no infertility issues --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":384.79,"start":380.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"in fact, she had one child already -- her retrieval resulted in just three viable eggs and then just one embryo.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":392.9,"start":384.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her doctor told her he was surprised.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":395.09,"start":392.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That he would have expected a better outcome.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":398.36,"start":395.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allison would have, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":400.31,"start":398.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But Donna was her main nurse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":402.59,"start":400.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And one thing she wondered was if Donna's drug use had a domino effect.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":408.36,"start":402.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allison had been so alarmed by what she described as the organized chaos of the Yale clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":414.42,"start":408.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That she'd recorded everything that went wrong for her there in a list.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":418.44,"start":414.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The entries included wrong meds prescribed, lab results never reported, conflicting instructions for a critical shot called the trigger shot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":430.62,"start":418.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allison had charted all of the mistakes she observed in her treatment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":434.61,"start":430.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And when she found out about Donna, she wondered if Donna had been charting mistakes, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":439.47,"start":434.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As in, introducing them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":442.5,"start":439.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"When I would go in for my ultrasound, she would be documenting the follicle size while the doctor is doing my ultrasound.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":449.35,"start":442.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"So what if she wrote down the wrong thing?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":453.07,"start":449.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"How was someone under the influence of drugs supposed to be able to record things accurately?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":458.19,"start":453.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Is this why I didn't have the outcome that everyone thought I was going to have?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":464.94,"start":458.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna had many responsibilities for many patients' complicated treatments.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":469.32,"start":464.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I don't feel like if you're under the influence you can possibly do all of that accurately for so many patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":477.51,"start":469.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I just don't see that being possible.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":481.41,"start":477.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Allison got lucky with that one embryo.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":483.96,"start":481.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She came out of this with a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":486.54,"start":483.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But she lost something in the process, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":489.33,"start":486.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Trust.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":491.07,"start":489.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Culminating in the night of her son's birth.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":495.38,"start":491.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"So when I had my son over the summer, we were in the hospital.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":499.73,"start":495.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And they did blood work on my newborn son.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":505.28,"start":499.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"So they took my son's blood, my newborn son.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":509.54,"start":505.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And they told me that his blood type was B positive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":512.63,"start":509.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And when they gave me this information, I said, that can't be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":516.679,"start":512.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I'm O negative and my husband's O positive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":518.75,"start":516.679}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I can't have a baby with a type B blood.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":521.85,"start":518.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"So you have to redraw it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":523.35,"start":521.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I said it must be a mistake.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":524.75,"start":523.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"The lab must have made a mistake.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":527.43,"start":524.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"So then they redraw my son's blood, and it comes back as B positive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":531.05,"start":527.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And my mind immediately went to the clinic messed up and they gave me the wrong embryo.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":538.01,"start":531.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And this is not my baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":539.33,"start":538.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And it sounds crazy to even say that, but that's immediately where my head went.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":546.08,"start":539.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"So now with a baby who is not even 24 hours old.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":552.01,"start":546.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"My husband laying on the hospital couch next to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":556.09,"start":552.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"It's the middle of the night and I'm having an argument with the nurse saying, this can't be right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":561.4,"start":556.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Redraw my son's blood.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":563.03,"start":561.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"So now I have my husband thinking that the embryo that we implanted isn't his or it's not mine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":570.73,"start":563.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And that's not a rational way of thinking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":573.19,"start":570.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"But that's immediately where our mind went, because we just didn't trust this clinic at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":579.08,"start":573.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And I thought, oh my god, this woman who I was supposed to trust, I mean, what did she do?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":584.17,"start":579.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Did she mix up the vials?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":585.5,"start":584.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Did she label the wrong thing?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":587.2,"start":585.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Whose baby is this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":588.61,"start":587.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"It can't be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":591.55,"start":588.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Finally, after a couple hours, I went into my husband's chart and looked at his blood results and realized that he was B positive and not O positive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":601.85,"start":591.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Which the story sounds so crazy to me to even say it out loud.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":606.62,"start":601.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"But that's just the type.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":609.19,"start":606.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I mean, that's the impact it had on us, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":613.27,"start":609.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"We didn't trust them enough enough to even think that the baby that we had was ours.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":619.18,"start":613.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And your mind shouldn't go there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":626.14,"start":619.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"You shouldn't immediately think that is what happened.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":632.64,"start":626.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And we still talk about it, because it's just crazy to even think.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":637.738,"start":632.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":638.53,"start":637.738}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I mean, first of all, it doesn't sound like a crazy story.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":642.61,"start":638.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It doesn't sound crazy to me at all.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":644.51,"start":642.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And it's so powerful, because it's the night your baby is born.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":651.52,"start":644.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You shouldn't have to be asking yourself the question, is this baby mine?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":656.39,"start":651.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That should just be a night --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":657.64,"start":656.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I mean, well, it's not always a night of pure joy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":662.35,"start":657.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's a hard few hours after --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":664,"start":662.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"No, but that's the memory that I have associated with that night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":667.48,"start":664.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I mean, it's really scarred me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":670.84,"start":667.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"Everything that I went through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":672.26,"start":670.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I just don't trust --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":674.9,"start":672.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"I don't trust anybody anymore.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":676.46,"start":674.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"You think that your doctors and nurses have your best interests at heart, and it's really hard to regain trust in the medical community when somebody has betrayed you like that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":687.81,"start":676.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ALLISON^","text":"And I feel like that speaks volumes coming from someone who works in the medical field myself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":692.925,"start":687.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"The negative downstream effect is just a deep mistrust of the medical setting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":704.84,"start":697.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Where I work, by the way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":706.19,"start":704.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"[LAUGHS]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":707.254,"start":706.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"But more generally.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":710.45,"start":708.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I mean, I was always surprised because my twin sister was not super comfortable in hospitals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":715.41,"start":710.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And I always felt like, oh, I work in a hospital.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":718.46,"start":715.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I'm extremely comfortable here going into the IVF process.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":721.82,"start":718.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"It just wasn't as stressful for me, because I felt really comfortable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":724.82,"start":721.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And that has really been taken away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":728.69,"start":724.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CAMISE^","text":"To trust people with something as priceless as your child or whatever it is you're doing to bring a child into this world and to lose that trust, it's not something you ever get over.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":741.11,"start":728.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^VICTORIA^","text":"When you lose that trust in healthcare and medical practice, someone who never really had white coat syndrome, now does.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":755.4,"start":741.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And I felt really distrustful about the other providers that I would be seeing at Yale and when it came to them touching my body or coming near me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":765.99,"start":755.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"I don't know, I feel like it's hard for me to trust doing a medical procedure again in a way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":775.29,"start":766}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"For the most part I do, but it's definitely made it more challenging.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":778.71,"start":775.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"For instance, I had a C-section in May for my baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":783.9,"start":778.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"And I just felt really a little bit nervous about, OK, am I going to feel this pain this time?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":791.55,"start":783.9}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"^: And he was talking to me about, these are the medications I'm going to give you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":796.2,"start":791.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"And he's like, and you'll most likely be asleep.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":799.23,"start":796.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"But there's a chance that you could be awake.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":801.12,"start":799.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"And then I was like, wait, wait, what?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":802.703,"start":801.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"And so I started crying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":805.07,"start":802.703}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"And I just basically told him, I was part of that situation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":809.86,"start":805.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"And he was so caring and understanding.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":812.11,"start":809.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"He was like, I will make sure that you're not awake for anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":814.93,"start":812.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^^LAURA^","text":"I will be on top of it, and I will make sure that you're given everything so that you don't wake up or know what's happening.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":821.41,"start":814.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"And I was surprised when they told me that I didn't feel anything.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":825.38,"start":821.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"But of course, I told the doctors and the anesthesiologist that I had gone through this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":830.75,"start":825.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"And I was like, I just want to let you know, because it makes me a little nervous, you know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":834.921,"start":830.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"The anesthesiologist came up to me, and it was this young guy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":841.39,"start":837.877}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And said to me, OK, here's your options.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":845.2,"start":841.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And was talking about a epidural and if we had to do anesthesia and this and that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":852.08,"start":845.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And the minute he said anesthesia, I mean, I was calm through the entire thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":856.15,"start":852.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"But the minute he said anesthesia, I looked at my husband in pure panic and started crying.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":863.59,"start":856.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"So it really had an effect on me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":866.39,"start":863.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"It still has an effect on me whenever I come across things when it comes to Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":871.63,"start":866.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"Unfortunately, they're one of the biggest hospitals here --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":874.99,"start":871.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"I think the biggest hospital system here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":877.64,"start":874.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And even when it comes to my kids, I have the option between Yale and one other place.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":882.46,"start":877.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ESHA^","text":"And whenever Yale becomes the option, it sends chills through me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":887.11,"start":882.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I had to move on after this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":898.48,"start":894.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"In large part because of what happened with Donna when we chose to go to a new clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":909.4,"start":901.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Julia is the patient who was in so much pain after her retrieval, that she passed out and went to the ER.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":916.63,"start":909.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She left the Yale clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":918.52,"start":916.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But not what happened to her there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":920.65,"start":918.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That continued to reverberate.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":923.17,"start":920.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It's the initial experience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":926.29,"start":923.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It's my daughter asking for months if I'm OK or if I'm going to the hospital.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":932.2,"start":926.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It's right away when you become pregnant, they test you for HIV and hepatitis.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":938.47,"start":932.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And it's like, that it comes back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":940.75,"start":938.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"What if?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":941.26,"start":940.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"What if they missed it the first time?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":944.77,"start":941.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I mean, why would I believe something from this office anymore, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":949.72,"start":944.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And then her sentencing is another one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":951.4,"start":949.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Just this laughable punishment.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":955.16,"start":951.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"That's how I would say I experienced it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":960.86,"start":955.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Just the waves keep hitting you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":963.97,"start":960.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"They keep coming.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":965.74,"start":963.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On the day Julia and I were talking about this, she was pregnant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":969.82,"start":965.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was 3 and 1\u002F2 weeks before her due date.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":972.82,"start":969.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Do you feel differently approaching this delivery than you did approaching the birth of your first child given everything that's happened in between?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":982.57,"start":972.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"There's no comparison.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":984.94,"start":982.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It feels like a whole different lifetime has happened, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":988.87,"start":984.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I mean, it feels --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":992.8,"start":988.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"it feels like --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":997.215,"start":995.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"it feels like my husband and I survived a war.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1004.16,"start":1000.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"It's like a battle, you know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1006.26,"start":1004.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And it's a very isolating experience to go through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1012.98,"start":1006.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"If everything goes right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1017.36,"start":1012.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And then you add something like the anger of the case with Donna, of the doctors making you feel nuts.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1031.31,"start":1017.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And it's just, I have so much --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1038.089,"start":1031.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I have so much anger.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1039.695,"start":1038.089}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And you don't want that to be what you --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1049.07,"start":1042.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"I'm sorry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1049.91,"start":1049.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Oh, it's OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1051.077,"start":1049.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"Take your time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1052.445,"start":1051.077}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"You don't --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1053.32,"start":1052.445}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"it's been a process trying to let go of that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1064.92,"start":1058.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Because I have a wonderful daughter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1071.325,"start":1064.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"Soon -- soon, I'll have a son.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1082.37,"start":1075.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And I'm really actively every day working on trying to separate the battle that led to him from him, right?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1101.14,"start":1082.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^JULIA^","text":"And it's hard to explain, but they're connected.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1108.04,"start":1101.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The story of the baby could not be told without the story of the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1115.97,"start":1110.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And what this association felt like, this was something other patients also tried to name.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1122.21,"start":1115.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The specific way the trauma was embodied.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1125.73,"start":1122.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"There's a part of me that honestly believes that the trauma from my first retrieval is the reason we had a miscarriage.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1133.04,"start":1125.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And scientifically, I know that that is highly unlikely.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1137.69,"start":1133.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"But you read these stories about the trauma of birth and how different things that you do to babies when they're being born and at birth can actually affect them for the rest of their lives.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1149.96,"start":1137.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ANGELA^","text":"And what's to say that the process of harvesting them, that trauma isn't ingrained in them either?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1158.09,"start":1149.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Having a child after this and being pregnant and going to these sentencing hearings, that's something I haven't even talked about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1165.38,"start":1158.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Is being pregnant and going -- and how much of this did I actually, again, want my body to absorb while I was pregnant?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1173.19,"start":1165.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah got pregnant spontaneously outside of her treatment at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1178.56,"start":1173.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Her baby was the only baby I met.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1181.11,"start":1178.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A smiling baby wearing striped pajamas.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1183.96,"start":1181.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"He sat on Leia's knee.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1186.54,"start":1183.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was important for me to see a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1188.97,"start":1186.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because it complicated the way I was interpreting the outcomes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1192.84,"start":1188.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was so confusing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1194.34,"start":1192.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'd been feeling empathic outrage.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1196.56,"start":1194.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's not the baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1197.73,"start":1196.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Why are these people telling the patients that the baby is the only outcome that matters?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1202.35,"start":1197.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But my god, to be in the presence of a baby, that's literally the whole design of babies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1208.29,"start":1202.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To make you more attentive to them than to anything else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1212.43,"start":1208.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The baby is what matters.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1215.16,"start":1212.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But everything else matters, too.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1218.49,"start":1215.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I have to say, there's some gift from God that this child was naturally conceived and not conceived via --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1226.56,"start":1218.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I have to say.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1228.24,"start":1226.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And I can only, in a way, do this because I have a child who exists that they didn't help administer to exist.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1236.745,"start":1228.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"And then how are you different?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1242.1,"start":1239.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^SUSAN BURTON^","text":"What are the reverberations of this for you?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1244.797,"start":1242.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I don't know how to talk about that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1246.63,"start":1244.797}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"[LAUGHS]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1247.31,"start":1246.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I don't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1248.4,"start":1247.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I mean, it's so deep, you know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1252.6,"start":1248.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"That, I don't know.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1253.56,"start":1252.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I don't know if I could talk about that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1255.57,"start":1253.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Because it's incredibly harrowing, violent.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1262.56,"start":1255.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"And in many ways, it has been a kind of unspeakable experience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1268.89,"start":1262.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"I will say that also it's hard for other people to hear and listen to this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1276.3,"start":1268.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"People cringe.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1279.81,"start":1276.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"There's a kind of, I don't know how to say this, but there's a kind of --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1284.94,"start":1279.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"there's so much of your life you have to talk about when you're talking about this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1291.77,"start":1287.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"There's so much of your life you have to talk about.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1294.29,"start":1291.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Your marriage, your body, your psyche.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1298.46,"start":1294.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Your relationships with other people the relationships.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1301.31,"start":1298.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You're going to have down the road with other physicians.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1304.22,"start":1301.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"What you're going to do later if you want to have another child, et cetera.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1307.55,"start":1304.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"That's its own thing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1309,"start":1307.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"So when you talk about what are the reverberations, I mean, there --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1313.37,"start":1309}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"how do I even talk about my life without not talking about this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1316.82,"start":1313.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But how do I talk about this?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1318.5,"start":1316.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1321.832,"start":1318.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"One of the things that makes me angry is that Yale and Donna have put me in this position where I have to talk about the most intimate, raw details of my life that maybe I don't even want to reveal to myself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1337.7,"start":1323.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"That now I'm talking to you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1341.42,"start":1337.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But for a person who's private and is --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1345.56,"start":1341.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"the other violence of this is that we, if anything is going to happen, we have to speak about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1354.06,"start":1345.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1354.84,"start":1354.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"An added bonus, an added onus on us that, well, if anything is going to happen, or if that it doesn't happen again, we have to speak about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1369.84,"start":1357.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"There's no right turn or left turn out of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1374.4,"start":1369.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"You want there to be.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1375.45,"start":1374.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"Trust me, I've thought of it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1376.658,"start":1375.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"But that's the other reverberation, is that we have to talk about it, you know?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1382.77,"start":1376.658}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LEAH^","text":"That's just only now unfolding.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1387.35,"start":1382.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Leah and the other plaintiffs in the lawsuit against Yale have to open up their lives for it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1392.99,"start":1387.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Do things like turn over their therapist notes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1395.57,"start":1392.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If they don't, Yale can seek a court order to get them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1399.59,"start":1395.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They have to deal with questions like, describe any changes in the frequency and satisfaction of your sexual relations with your spouse following the incident.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1409.66,"start":1399.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When Leia says violence, this is part of what is evoked for me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1414.01,"start":1409.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This kind of bullying extraction.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1417.73,"start":1414.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Of course, nobody has to join the lawsuit.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1420.19,"start":1417.74}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I've heard from and of patients who didn't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1423.61,"start":1420.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They chose not to join out of loyalty to their doctor.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1428.05,"start":1423.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Or they just couldn't.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1429.5,"start":1428.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They'd had a miscarriage.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1430.96,"start":1429.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They were in a dark place, depressed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1433.45,"start":1430.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In no state for this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1434.8,"start":1433.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A lawsuit is a way to hold an institution accountable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1441.15,"start":1438.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To send a message or teach a lesson.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1443.28,"start":1441.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"To advance systemic change.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1446.05,"start":1443.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is also a way to get something, to make it fair, and to announce, you should not have dismissed me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1452.85,"start":1446.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You dismissed me once.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1454.71,"start":1452.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You may not dismiss me again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1458.15,"start":1454.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of the attorneys representing the patients, Kelly Fitzpatrick, went through IVF herself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1464.31,"start":1458.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She told me that this case is different from a regular medical malpractice case in many ways, including this one.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1471.18,"start":1464.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KELLY^","text":"These women were repeatedly ignored.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1474.04,"start":1471.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KELLY^","text":"And so that sets it apart from a regular medical malpractice case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1479.01,"start":1474.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KELLY^","text":"These women were gaslighted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1480.36,"start":1479.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KELLY^","text":"They weren't believed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1481.65,"start":1480.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KELLY^","text":"They were ignored.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1482.85,"start":1481.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KELLY^","text":"And that makes it different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1485.61,"start":1482.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They were ignored.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1487.08,"start":1485.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's what makes it different.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1490.36,"start":1487.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So how do you do that?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1491.83,"start":1490.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How do you sue for ignoring pain?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1494.71,"start":1491.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This became a real question for me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1497.11,"start":1494.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Was there some statute?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1499.29,"start":1497.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's not like that, another one of the attorneys told me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1502.58,"start":1499.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You can sue because they should have investigated reports of pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1506.75,"start":1502.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That made sense.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1508.77,"start":1506.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But it wasn't exactly my question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1511.65,"start":1508.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's the harm that comes from not being believed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1514.83,"start":1511.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But then there's the harm of not being believed itself.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1519.4,"start":1514.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I kept reading around, doing Googles like, \"How do you sue for not being believed?\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1524.17,"start":1519.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"How do you sue for not being believed, women?\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1526.45,"start":1524.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"\"Lawsuit -- women's pain not believed.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1529.78,"start":1526.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then I came across the perfect paper.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1532.45,"start":1529.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It was called, \"Miss Diagnosis --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1535.42,"start":1532.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"gendered injustice and medical malpractice law.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1539.62,"start":1535.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I loved this title.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1541.03,"start":1539.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Miss Diagnosis.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1542.98,"start":1541.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Like a shiny banner across your chest in a pageant for female pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1549.46,"start":1542.98}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The paper wasn't answering exactly my question.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1552.76,"start":1549.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It didn't open with the sentence, here's how you sue for ignoring pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1557.76,"start":1552.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What it did do is explore how this issue of women not being believed in medical settings plays out in court.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1566.34,"start":1557.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The author was a young attorney named Cecilia Plaza.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1569.73,"start":1566.35}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She'd written the paper while still a student at Columbia Law School.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1573.99,"start":1569.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She set out to answer a specific question about the gender gap in medical malpractice outcomes, which essentially is a question about whether women can be fairly compensated in the medical malpractice system.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1588.45,"start":1573.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And what she found is that women likely cannot.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1592.02,"start":1588.45}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because the foundation of this system is, did what happened to you meet the standard of care?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1597.6,"start":1592.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If it did, you're out of luck.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1599.94,"start":1597.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Like, you're a woman, you think you're having a heart attack.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1602.76,"start":1599.94}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You go to the ER.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1603.72,"start":1602.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The doctor says, it's just your anxiety, and sends you home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1607.29,"start":1603.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Then it turns out that you really were having a heart attack.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1611.08,"start":1607.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Can you successfully win a case against this doctor in court?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1614.91,"start":1611.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Maybe not.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1616.53,"start":1614.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because doctors misdiagnose so many women's heart attacks as anxiety that sending a woman home could actually be interpreted as a reasonable choice that an ordinary doctor would make.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1629.41,"start":1616.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Just to be clear, Cecilia's paper is not a work of opinion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1633.82,"start":1629.41}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It is an empirical analysis based on a ton of data.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1637.63,"start":1633.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And what Cecilia found is that women cannot expect to get as much money as men in this system.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1644.14,"start":1637.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because dismissing women doesn't necessarily fall below the standard of care.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1649.76,"start":1644.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So to win that heart attack case or other similar cases --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1654.11,"start":1649.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CECILIA^","text":"You would have to basically make the argument that not believing your patient's report of symptoms or of pain is de facto below the standard of care.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1669.34,"start":1654.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CECILIA^","text":"That's not currently the case, which is a little bit mind boggling.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1673.54,"start":1669.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^CECILIA^","text":"But you would have to make that argument, and the court would have to agree with you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1678.5,"start":1673.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another thing that was mind boggling to me in all this lawsuit stuff happened in the back and forth of discovery.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1685.57,"start":1678.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In discovery, there's a part called written interrogatories.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1689.14,"start":1685.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Each side asks questions, and the other side mostly objects.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1694.03,"start":1689.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But even given that, I was taken aback by Yale's objections to some of the questions on the plaintiff list.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1701.02,"start":1694.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Like, state whether there are policies and procedures concerning documentation and\u002For record keeping of pain at the clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1710.8,"start":1701.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale's objection is that this question is overly broad and burdensome.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1716.79,"start":1710.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And as to a request for a description of the process for evaluating patient pain during and after fentanyl administration, Yale says that this is irrelevant.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1729.09,"start":1716.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Immaterial.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1729.99,"start":1729.09}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I got that this was part of a legal game.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1735.38,"start":1732.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But it was also a microcosm of the whole situation.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1739.04,"start":1735.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (JUDGE)^","text":"All right, we're on the record in the matter of Melissa Cohen versus Yale University.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1744.5,"start":1739.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (JUDGE)^","text":"Docket number 216063194.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1747.77,"start":1744.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (JUDGE)^","text":"Lisa Gorski versus Yale University.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1750.313,"start":1747.77}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (JUDGE)^","text":"Docket number --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1750.98,"start":1750.313}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The lawsuit is scheduled to enter settlement negotiations this month.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1754.7,"start":1750.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That tape is of a hearing in January.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1758.981,"start":1754.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One plaintiff told me that at a recent town hall, discussion focused on the possibility that Yale will offer a lump sum to the group and an independent party will decide how the money should be divided up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1770.72,"start":1758.981}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Those who had procedures before June 2020, the date Donna says she started stealing fentanyl, expressed concerns that their experiences will be considered, quote, \"less worthy.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1782.81,"start":1770.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"For the plaintiff, this, quote, \"has become another retraumatizing experience of Yale\u002Fothers telling women you didn't experience what you believe you experienced.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1794.46,"start":1782.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Unless it happened between certain dates.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1797.64,"start":1794.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's now, again, someone not believing and discounting literally our reports of pain.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1805.92,"start":1797.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patient's attorney said they could not comment on this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1808.77,"start":1805.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Incidentally, a former Yale nurse contacted me after hearing last week's episode.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1817.56,"start":1811.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A nurse who believes, based on what she witnessed, that Donna was stealing fentanyl before June 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1824.67,"start":1817.56}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She told me a version of something I'd heard from other staffers at the old clinic, the Long Wharf Clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1830.28,"start":1824.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This nurse remembers frequently finding fentanyl vials with loose caps.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1834.33,"start":1830.28}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Like so many with loose caps that she says she sometimes had to look around for ones that seemed properly sealed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1840.41,"start":1834.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This nurse was alarmed by the loose caps and said she reported them to her manager.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1845.69,"start":1840.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The nurse's understanding was that Donna had told their manager that the loose caps were a manufacturing defect.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1853.37,"start":1845.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When I asked Yale about this account, they pointed me back to their earlier statements.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1858.14,"start":1853.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Coming up after the break, Donna gets another hearing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1869.76,"start":1865.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's next when \"The Retrievals\" continues.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1873.3,"start":1869.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna received a light sentence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1887.23,"start":1884.84}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But at least, as one patient put it, she obviously lost her nursing license.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1892.93,"start":1887.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But that was not the case.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1896.25,"start":1892.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Back around the time Donna first confessed to law enforcement authorities, her license was suspended.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1902.01,"start":1896.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But it was never actually taken away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1905.04,"start":1902.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In April 2022, almost a year after Donna was sentenced in federal court, she came before the Connecticut Nursing Board seeking to have her nursing license reinstated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1916.56,"start":1905.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I'll make a motion to accept the consent order as presented for Donna Monticone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1922.53,"start":1916.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The Connecticut Nursing Board meets monthly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1925.32,"start":1922.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And at nearly every single meeting, the board considers multiple requests from nurses who've been suspended for a substance use issue and now want to come back to work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1935.48,"start":1925.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Substance use disorder is an illness that can be treated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1938.48,"start":1935.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A person can move through it and return.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1941.39,"start":1938.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Usually at these meetings, it's like, here's the motion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1944.25,"start":1941.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Do I have a second?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1945.14,"start":1944.25}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Discussion.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1946.05,"start":1945.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"All in favor, say aye.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1947.6,"start":1946.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"License back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1949.63,"start":1947.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And at first, it looks like it's going to go that way with Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1953.08,"start":1949.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Then a board member named Lisa speaks up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1955.81,"start":1953.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"OK, from what I am seeing, there is only one issue being addressed, and it's not the moral issue of the harm that she actually caused to patients.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1974.38,"start":1955.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"The drug was substituted with --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1977.07,"start":1974.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"I think it's water it said or something.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1979.63,"start":1977.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"That greatly disturbs me and rises the level of seriousness in my mind.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1986.81,"start":1979.63}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We've heard how family and friends made sense of what Donna did.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1990.37,"start":1986.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"We've heard patients reckon with it, a federal judge.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":1994.62,"start":1990.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What's fascinating about this meeting is to hear a body of her peers react.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2000.06,"start":1994.62}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How will, a group that includes fellow nurses wrestle with what Donna did and what it would mean for her to return to doing this work?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2008.57,"start":2000.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Lisa, the one who noted that there was a moral issue here, is one of the few board members who's actually not a nurse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2016.05,"start":2008.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She's the executive director of a patient safety organization.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2020.12,"start":2016.05}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And she isn't saying that Donna shouldn't get her license back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2023.36,"start":2020.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"At least not explicitly.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2025.55,"start":2023.36}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But she is troubled, and she's trying to get others to acknowledge that, wait, there's something different here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2033.22,"start":2025.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Lisa wonders if there's some other penalty that could be imposed on Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2037.51,"start":2033.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Maybe a fine.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2039.1,"start":2037.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another board member disagrees.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2040.965,"start":2039.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (GERI)^","text":"It's Geri.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2042.59,"start":2040.965}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (GERI)^","text":"I don't support it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2044.14,"start":2042.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (GERI)^","text":"I don't really the purpose of that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2046.745,"start":2044.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PATRICIA)^","text":"Lisa, you want to talk to your suggestion?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2049.87,"start":2046.745}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"Yes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2051.245,"start":2049.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"So I'm particularly concerned.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2053.5,"start":2051.245}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"It's not just that she appropriated the medication for herself and her own use.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2060.76,"start":2053.5}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"But we don't know if the way she handled things --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2065.29,"start":2060.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"she might have introduced bacteria, infection, or whatever.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2069.88,"start":2065.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"I think that when you tamper with --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2073.719,"start":2069.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"the patient is getting something that they're not supposed to be getting.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2077.53,"start":2073.719}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"And I'm just really, really concerned that the disregard makes it a second level up.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2087.96,"start":2077.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She tries to articulate what that second level is.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2091.53,"start":2087.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"It's just a more corrupted way of thinking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2095.26,"start":2091.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"It's not just self-centered about putting it in.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2098.04,"start":2095.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"It's not having regard for the patient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2102.19,"start":2098.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"And that's what concerns me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2105.69,"start":2102.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Finally, another member speaks up and backs Lisa.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2109.23,"start":2105.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Someone else suggests language they could add to Donna's consent order, which is the document they're working on.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2115.08,"start":2109.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Language about Donna's reckless disregard for patient safety.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2119.97,"start":2115.08}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Lisa is in favor of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2121.77,"start":2119.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"I like the way Stacy worded it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2124.287,"start":2121.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (STACY)^","text":"Reckless disregard for patient safety.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2127.12,"start":2124.287}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PATRICIA)^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2127.37,"start":2127.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2128.787,"start":2127.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PATRICIA)^","text":"So those are the words that you are looking to include.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2133.14,"start":2128.787}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PATRICIA)^","text":"Is that correct?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2133.92,"start":2133.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"With patient harm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2135.12,"start":2133.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (STACY)^","text":"Within that vein.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2136.56,"start":2135.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (PATRICIA)^","text":"I don't know that we could establish -- we might have to say \"potential patient harm.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2141.518,"start":2136.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"Potential patient harm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2144.19,"start":2141.518}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I think reckless disregard is a very important phrase put in there.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2151.48,"start":2144.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Reckless disregard for patients, whether it's their safety or what.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2156.1,"start":2151.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"For their level of pain or what.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2159.01,"start":2156.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Patients under her care, she had reckless disregard for them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2163.06,"start":2159.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"And I think that should be carried into the record.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2165.73,"start":2163.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"I really like that phrase.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2166.96,"start":2165.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Thanks, Stacy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2168.9,"start":2166.96}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2170.99,"start":2168.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CINDY)^","text":"That really applies to anyone diverting drugs, though, don't you think?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2175.87,"start":2171}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"But this is a level that we rarely see, Cindy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2179,"start":2175.88}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CINDY)^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2179.53,"start":2179.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CINDY)^","text":"I agree that the fact that she gave something else.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2182.17,"start":2179.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CINDY)^","text":"Usually I think it's just don't give anything, so I agree.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2185.29,"start":2182.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CINDY)^","text":"But I think that reckless disregard applies to diverting drugs.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2190.537,"start":2185.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"You're probably right.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2192.37,"start":2190.537}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Maybe we should see that going forward.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2194.365,"start":2192.37}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2195.49,"start":2194.365}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Let's put that in in our recipe book.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2197.69,"start":2195.49}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2198.19,"start":2197.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The consent order is sent back to be updated with the new language about reckless disregard.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2208.93,"start":2203.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then a couple months later, Donna's case comes before the board again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2214.3,"start":2208.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On the day the board considers it, Donna and her lawyer joined the board's video conference.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2220.33,"start":2214.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Lisa herself takes the lead on moving Donna's petition forward.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2224.24,"start":2220.33}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"This is Lisa.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2225.99,"start":2224.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (LISA)^","text":"I make a motion that we approve the consent order for Donna Monticone.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2231.498,"start":2225.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2232.54,"start":2231.498}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Do I have a second?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2233.332,"start":2232.54}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CINDY)^","text":"This is Cindy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2235.165,"start":2233.332}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (CINDY)^","text":"I'll second that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2236.02,"start":2235.165}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2237.062,"start":2236.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Comments, discussion, questions?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2239.38,"start":2237.062}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This time, there isn't anything substantive.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2242.56,"start":2239.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"All in favor?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2244.207,"start":2242.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Aye.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2245.29,"start":2244.207}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Aye.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2246.16,"start":2245.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Aye.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2247.243,"start":2246.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Aye.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2248.38,"start":2247.243}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Opposed?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2250.39,"start":2248.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Abstaining.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2252.31,"start":2250.39}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"The motion passes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2253.3,"start":2252.31}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Congratulations.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2254.44,"start":2253.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Good luck to Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2257.11,"start":2254.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING (DONNA)^","text":"Thank you very much.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2259.21,"start":2257.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Thank you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2259.81,"start":2259.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Thank you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2261.143,"start":2259.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Thank you.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2262.85,"start":2261.143}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^ARCHIVED RECORDING^","text":"Next on the agenda is a consent order --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2265.433,"start":2262.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"By January 2023, the suspension on Donna's license had been lifted, and she was officially able to practice as a nurse again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2281.27,"start":2272.178}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The consent order included many conditions about substance use testing and restricted the kinds of settings in which she'd be permitted to work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2290.52,"start":2281.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And then just two months later, Donna voluntarily surrendered her license.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2296.55,"start":2290.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I don't know why Donna surrendered her license.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2299.1,"start":2296.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The attorney who represented Donna before the nursing board did not respond to me.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2304.68,"start":2299.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But in 2018, a senior official in the Connecticut Department of Health said that most voluntary surrenders happen after an accusation of substance abuse.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2313.725,"start":2304.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A surrender is not a final outcome.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2319.24,"start":2316.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Donna could still apply to get her nursing license back.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2322.135,"start":2319.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"[MUSIC PLAYING]","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2336.719,"start":2333.292}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The women have babies.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2341.14,"start":2339.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They labor at the hospital or in an outdoor shower.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2345.07,"start":2341.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They come home.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2346.01,"start":2345.07}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And before they know it, they're thinking about things like sleep schedules.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2349.6,"start":2346.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They put a little sign on the front door that says not to ring the bell.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2354.13,"start":2349.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But they don't come home with the baby right away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2356.95,"start":2354.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Here's Lynn, the patient who had eight painful retrievals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2361.6,"start":2356.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"In the end of this, ended up with my daughter Sunshine, who was born at 24 weeks, six days.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2371.72,"start":2361.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"So 107 days early.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2375.7,"start":2371.72}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"So we spent this last summer at the NICU.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2381.76,"start":2375.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And I think at this point, I'm still angry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2387.32,"start":2381.76}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And at the same time, just so thankful that I have a baby at the end of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2394.19,"start":2387.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"Because if I didn't have my daughter, it'd be a very different ending.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2405.125,"start":2394.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"A very sad ending to all of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2408.84,"start":2405.125}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Of the 12 women I initially spoke to, three did not have a child after all of this.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2419.93,"start":2413.275}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When I asked one of them if she planned to continue fertility treatment, she said, oh no, we're done.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2426.32,"start":2419.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another stopped for two years before being ready to start again at a new clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2431.43,"start":2426.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The third is Laura.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2434.13,"start":2431.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"is now 43.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2436.44,"start":2434.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"She finished cancer treatment and then resumed fertility treatment at Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2441.87,"start":2436.44}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"She told me that she regretted not switching clinics right away.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2445.65,"start":2441.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But you just go with what you know already, she said.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2449.6,"start":2445.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"After a miscarriage and a couple more tries, she became frustrated with her care there and started looking around for other options.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2457.58,"start":2449.6}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It's been 3 and 1\u002F2 years since her original retrievals.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2461.24,"start":2457.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Years of protocols and scans raised hopes.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2464.87,"start":2461.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And then a reckoning.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2467.03,"start":2464.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So we had one embryo that looked really good.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2470,"start":2467.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And we had just gotten the news that it was abnormal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2473.55,"start":2470}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So I was devastated and traumatized again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2478.53,"start":2473.55}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So I said to my boyfriend, OK, I need to go again.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2482.827,"start":2478.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I found this clinic in New York.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2484.16,"start":2482.827}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I had already lined it up because I had done consults with all of them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2488.12,"start":2484.16}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Because I had this rush.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2490.695,"start":2488.12}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I had to have a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2491.57,"start":2490.695}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I had to have a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2492.81,"start":2491.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"So we drove five hours.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2496.692,"start":2492.82}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"It was 2 and 1\u002F2 hours each way to this clinic.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2498.65,"start":2496.692}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"We were supposed to start that night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2500.57,"start":2498.65}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And they were the best deal for a cash patient.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2505.42,"start":2500.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"But Laura didn't start that night.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2507.97,"start":2505.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She didn't start taking her meds.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2510.19,"start":2507.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She didn't start a new cycle.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2513.13,"start":2510.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Cycle is the word to describe a round of IVF.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2516.64,"start":2513.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Also a compulsive loop.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2519.2,"start":2516.64}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Laura felt like the clinic she visited were keeping her in that loop, and she decided to take a break from them.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2525.56,"start":2519.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"Because these clinics make you feel like you're failing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2528.567,"start":2525.57}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"They don't give you any other options.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2530.15,"start":2528.567}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"They just want to keep giving you drugs and they don't talk to you about your health.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2536.34,"start":2530.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I don't know, I just --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2538.97,"start":2536.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I have so much love to give, and I just want to have a baby, I just feel like.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2546.68,"start":2538.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"And I know I will be a mom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2548.21,"start":2546.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"I know it will happen.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2549.455,"start":2548.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LAURA^","text":"But --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2549.955,"start":2549.455}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of the central tensions of fertility treatment basically since its inception has been, OK, is this a patriarchal system or a feminist one?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2562.87,"start":2553.18}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On the one hand, you have a top-down system that, frankly, was designed by men.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2567.1,"start":2562.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There's tons of drugs and doctors telling you what to do with your body.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2571.4,"start":2567.1}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"On the other hand, being able to decide when and how to have a baby and the possibilities that fertility medicine opens up for patients in all kinds of situations.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2581.81,"start":2571.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This is also reproductive freedom.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2584.3,"start":2581.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"If you have access to it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2587.22,"start":2584.3}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Being a fertility patient is both a privilege and a trial.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2590.85,"start":2587.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It involves both obedience and agency.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2594,"start":2590.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Both submission and control.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2597.17,"start":2594}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"There are a lot of polarities here.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2599.32,"start":2597.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"A lot of ambivalence.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2602.88,"start":2599.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"In the end, the central ambivalence for some of the patients is a simple and powerful one --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2609,"start":2602.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"anger and gratitude.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2612.16,"start":2609}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"My doctor has retired --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2615.73,"start":2612.17}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"maybe not retired, but taken a new job in Florida, which I just envisioned as a retirement from this mess.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2621.67,"start":2615.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And even now, I have this feeling that, well, he did his job.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2627.68,"start":2621.67}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"I got pregnant every time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2630.4,"start":2627.68}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"These transfers were successful every time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2634.01,"start":2630.4}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"And so I have a lot of gratitude to this doctor for getting me through this process, getting me pregnant each time, and then resulting in a successful pregnancy.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2644.14,"start":2634.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"At the same time, this is the person, the senior person who was in the room when I was sober during a medical procedure at which I was supposed to have anesthesia who has some responsibility for paying attention to that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2661.06,"start":2644.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Listening to that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2662.38,"start":2661.06}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Doing something about that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2664.34,"start":2662.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"So I think that I am balancing this, the emotions around having a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2675.01,"start":2664.34}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^KATIE^","text":"Having a successful outcome of IVF and then the emotions around having gone through this pretty incredible experience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2682.21,"start":2675.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"Obviously, clearly he should have pressed further and thought about, OK, well, there should not have been pain, and I need to investigate and see what is happening there or report it in some way.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2699.59,"start":2685.7}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"So I'm not happy with regards to that.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2704.26,"start":2699.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"But he is the reason why we have a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2708.52,"start":2704.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"So and besides this issue, I was happy that it was successful in the end.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2716.03,"start":2708.52}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^MELISSA^","text":"So yeah.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2719.01,"start":2716.03}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"The nurses and doctors that I dealt with, I have conflicting feelings.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2725.79,"start":2719.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I'm angry.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2727.47,"start":2725.79}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"I'm upset that I was --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2729.99,"start":2727.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"my concern in talking with them was looked over as anxiety versus fear.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2737.58,"start":2729.99}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"And that's all very confusing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2739.89,"start":2737.58}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"But they still held my hand through this journey that ended with my beautiful daughter.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2746.97,"start":2739.89}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"^LYNN^","text":"So I'm thankful and angry at the same time.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2751.8,"start":2746.97}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I said at the beginning that everyone told a story about what happened here, and that all these stories revealed something about women's pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2761.53,"start":2754.32}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How it's tolerated, interpreted, accounted for, or minimized.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2766.93,"start":2761.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"So now we're at the end.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2768.73,"start":2766.93}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"What do these stories reveal?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2770.92,"start":2768.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The short reductive answers.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2772.69,"start":2770.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The ones we can articulate now that we've sat with these stories and their complexity.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2777.47,"start":2772.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I'll go in order.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2778.78,"start":2777.48}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How it's tolerated.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2780.85,"start":2778.78}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's patience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2782.02,"start":2780.85}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Why did they tolerate pain?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2784.27,"start":2782.02}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Because they wanted to have a baby.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2786.73,"start":2784.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How it's interpreted.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2788.29,"start":2786.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's, how did their healthcare providers interpret it?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2791.83,"start":2788.29}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As unusual but in the known range of normal.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2794.92,"start":2791.83}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And my god, what that says about, quote, \"normal.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2799.18,"start":2794.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How it's accounted for.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2801.04,"start":2799.19}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's Donna.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2802.69,"start":2801.04}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"It's accounted for by her experience as a mother who was a victim of a bad relationship.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2808.21,"start":2802.69}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"And that account somehow carries weight in the criminal justice system, where Donna suffers no meaningful consequence for the pain she caused.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2816.51,"start":2808.21}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"How it's minimized.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2818.13,"start":2816.51}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That's Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2819.81,"start":2818.13}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Irrelevant and immaterial.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2821.39,"start":2819.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Within hours after a trailer for the series went online in June, before the first episode was even released, a woman wrote to me saying she was shaking.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2844.22,"start":2834.87}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"That she believed that this had happened to her at Yale.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2848.01,"start":2844.22}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I always explain it as I was crawling up the table in agony, she wrote.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2852.86,"start":2848.01}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Additional notes from former Yale patients soon followed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2856.37,"start":2852.86}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I was made to feel it was my fault for being overly sensitive, wrote one woman.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2861.23,"start":2856.38}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I have felt so traumatized and alone, confessed another.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2866.46,"start":2861.23}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Most of these patients had retrievals before June 2020.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2870.24,"start":2866.46}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"They never got the letter from Yale or any other communication about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2875.14,"start":2870.24}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"These patients had been denied information that could have helped them make sense of their experience.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2880.58,"start":2875.14}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One patient described events that took place at a retrieval in 2018.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2884.8,"start":2880.59}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"She remembered a nurse --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2886.27,"start":2884.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"she isn't sure if it was Donna --","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2887.95,"start":2886.27}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"laying her down on the table.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2890.53,"start":2887.95}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When I said I wasn't comfortable in that position, she said something to the effect of, well, it isn't a massage.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2896.47,"start":2890.53}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"You aren't supposed to be comfortable.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2898.91,"start":2896.47}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I started to get teary eyed.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2901.6,"start":2898.91}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"When the procedure began, I was awake and in pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2905.26,"start":2901.61}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The patient said to the doctor, I'm in a lot of pain.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2908.8,"start":2905.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I can feel everything you are doing.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2910.75,"start":2908.8}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Is that normal?","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2912.73,"start":2910.75}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The doctor instructed the nurse to give more pain meds.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2915.43,"start":2912.73}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The meds didn't work.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2917.11,"start":2915.43}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"The nurse then made a rude comment, the patient wrote, which I cannot recall specifically now.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2922.81,"start":2917.11}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Something like, we heard you the first time you said it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2927.7,"start":2922.81}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Another patient wrote that Donna was her main nurse and the first person who made her feel supported in her choice to use donor sperm.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2935.15,"start":2927.71}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Now the patient was struggling to make sense of all this new information about Donna and, quote, \"who she was to me.\"","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2942.92,"start":2935.15}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"I am Donna, wrote another listener.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":2945.98,"start":2942.92}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"This listener was not a Yale 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tapped.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3027.2,"start":3023.66}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"As if this has been inside maybe for years, and it's almost like didn't know you could be angry about it.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3033.42,"start":3027.2}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Didn't realize that this was yet another one of those things that upon reflection, oh my god, this is not OK.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3040.25,"start":3033.42}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"One of many things that until you hear someone speak about it, you think, as Lynn said in the first episode, this is just what women go through.","timecode":{"__typename":"AudioTimecode","end":3050.33,"start":3040.26}},{"__typename":"AudioTranscriptFragment","speaker":"SUSAN BURTON","text":"Yale refused to respond to the lawyer's 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