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Aug 2009, 19:44</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-plz"><strong>Postcode:</strong> 59269</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-land"><strong>Country:</strong> Germany</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content773"> <h3 class="first"><a href="#p773">Die wahren Hintergründe der Finanzkrise</a></h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="/app.php/post/773/report?sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" title="Diesen Beitrag melden" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-exclamation fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Diesen Beitrag melden</span> </a> </li> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&amp;p=773&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" title="Mit Zitat antworten" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Zitat</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../geld-anlage-f209/die-wahren-hintergruende-der-finanzkrise-t308.html?sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73#p773" title="Beitrag"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Beitrag</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">von <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=215&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="username">Quasimodo</a></strong> &raquo; </span>Fr 4. Sep 2009, 10:48 </p> <div class="content">Es ist ja jetzt schon einige Zeit her und der Markt beginnt ja scheinbar seine Erholungsphase obwohl manche das Gegenteil behaupten). Doch eine Sache ist in der Presse nicht zu mir durchgedrungen. <br> <br> WIE KAM ES EIGENTLICH DAZU? <br> <br> Wie konnte es passieren, dass so viele hochrangige Banken in Immobilienhypotheken in den USA investiert haben auf Teufel komm raus und keiner dieser hoch bezahlten und erfahrenen Börsengurus rechtzeitig die Notbremse gezogen haben. Hat es keinen sehen kommen? Die Lehmann war ja nun auch eine der besten Banken, sonst wäre es ja kaum möglich, dass sie so viele andere Banken und dann noch die Weltwirtschaft mit in die Tiefe reißt. Außerdem hat doch jeder Staat seine Aufsichtsinstitutionen (was bei uns die BAFIN ist), es bei denen niemand auf die Idee gekommen das da was nicht stimmt? Kann mich da mal jemand einweihen?</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Nach oben"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Nach oben</span> </a> </div> </div> <div id="p774" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile774"> <dt class="no-profile-rank has-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=83&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="avatar"><img class="avatar" src="./../download/file.php?avatar=83_1300090864.jpg" width="130" height="120" alt="Benutzeravatar" /></a> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=83&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="username">Helios</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Beiträge:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=83&amp;sr=posts&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73">214</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Registriert:</strong> Di 5. Mai 2009, 18:47</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-plz"><strong>Postcode:</strong> 70599</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-land"><strong>Country:</strong> Germany</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content774"> <h3 ><a href="#p774">Re: Die wahren Hintergründe der Finanzkrise</a></h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="/app.php/post/774/report?sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" title="Diesen Beitrag melden" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-exclamation fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Diesen Beitrag melden</span> </a> </li> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&amp;p=774&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" title="Mit Zitat antworten" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Zitat</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../geld-anlage-f209/die-wahren-hintergruende-der-finanzkrise-t308.html?sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73#p774" title="Beitrag"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Beitrag</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">von <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=83&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="username">Helios</a></strong> &raquo; </span>Fr 4. Sep 2009, 13:58 </p> <div class="content">Die im großen Stil angelegte Vergabe von Hypothekenkredite am US-Immobilienmarkt an Schuldner zweitklassiger Bonität, dürfte wohl als Hauptursache zu sehen sein. Vergleichbar mit der Dotkom-Blase in 2000 - es wird schon weiter nach oben gehen - rechnete man mit steigenden Immobilien-Preisen, bei gleichzeitig niedrigem Zinsniveau. Die Vergabe von Subprime-Krediten wurden infolge dessen immer weiter ausgeweitet. Nachdem der Leitzins seit 2004 von 1 Prozent auf 5,25 Prozent anzog und sich damit auch der Hypothekenzins verteuerte, stagnierten jedoch die Immobilienpreise. Die extreme Ausfallrate der Subprime-Kredite führte dann dazu, dass es zu einem Überangebot an Immobilien kam, wodurch der Preisverfall der Immobilien beschleunigt wurde. Exorbitante Abschreibungen beförderten Immobilienbanken schließlich in die Insolvenz.<br> Natürlich fragt man sich, wieso das keiner rechtzeitig vorhergesehen hatte. Selbst den Branchen-Primus UBS erfasste die Krise mit voller Wucht. Und hier galt lange Zeit das Anlagevermögen als sicher. Doch Krisen haben auch etwas Positives an sich - sie fördern den Erfindergeist und schaffen Platz für innovative Geschäftsfelder. Wirft man einen Blick auf den Dax, <a href="http://isht.comdirect.de/html/detail/main.html?hist=5y&amp;sSym=TDXP.ETR&amp;DEBUG=0&amp;dsc=abs&amp;iSLid=2679&amp;ind0=VOLUME&amp;sCat=IND&amp;sIsin=DE0007203275&amp;sPageType=standard&amp;sTab=chart&amp;sWkn=720327&amp;type=CONNECTLINE" class="postlink">http://isht.comdirect.de/html/detail/ma ... ONNECTLINE</a> fragt man sich eh, wieso die Erholung der Kurse derart schnell vonstatten ging. Ist das ein Indiz dafür, dass die größte Wirtschaftskrise aller Zeiten schon vorüber ist, und vielleicht gar nicht so heftig war, wie es zunächst den Anschein hatte, oder - ob das dicke Ende erst noch naht?</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Nach oben"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Nach oben</span> </a> </div> </div> <div id="p779" class="post has-profile bg2"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile779"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=214&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="username">Fischli</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Beiträge:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=214&amp;sr=posts&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73">14</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Registriert:</strong> So 30. Aug 2009, 18:37</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-plz"><strong>Postcode:</strong> 89583</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-land"><strong>Country:</strong> Germany</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content779"> <h3 ><a href="#p779">Re: Die wahren Hintergründe der Finanzkrise</a></h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="/app.php/post/779/report?sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" title="Diesen Beitrag melden" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-exclamation fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Diesen Beitrag melden</span> </a> </li> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&amp;p=779&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" title="Mit Zitat antworten" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Zitat</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../geld-anlage-f209/die-wahren-hintergruende-der-finanzkrise-t308.html?sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73#p779" title="Beitrag"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Beitrag</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">von <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=214&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="username">Fischli</a></strong> &raquo; </span>Sa 5. Sep 2009, 10:14 </p> <div class="content">Ich habe zwar keine Ahnung von dem Finanzgeschäft, doch kann ich mir nicht vorstellen, dass es wirklich nur an den Immobilienhypotheken lag. Wenn doch, soll mal jemand erklären wie das gehen soll.</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Nach oben"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Nach oben</span> </a> </div> </div> <div id="p780" class="post has-profile bg1"> <div class="inner"> <dl class="postprofile" id="profile780"> <dt class="no-profile-rank no-avatar"> <div class="avatar-container"> </div> <a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=218&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="username">Rosen</a> </dt> <dd class="profile-posts"><strong>Beiträge:</strong> <a href="./../search.php?author_id=218&amp;sr=posts&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73">14</a></dd> <dd class="profile-joined"><strong>Registriert:</strong> Fr 4. Sep 2009, 13:17</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-plz"><strong>Postcode:</strong> 0</dd> <dd class="profile-custom-field profile-land"><strong>Country:</strong> Germany</dd> </dl> <div class="postbody"> <div id="post_content780"> <h3 ><a href="#p780">Re: Die wahren Hintergründe der Finanzkrise</a></h3> <ul class="post-buttons"> <li> <a href="/app.php/post/780/report?sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" title="Diesen Beitrag melden" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-exclamation fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Diesen Beitrag melden</span> </a> </li> <li> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=quote&amp;p=780&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" title="Mit Zitat antworten" class="button button-icon-only"> <i class="icon fa-quote-left fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Zitat</span> </a> </li> </ul> <p class="author"> <a class="unread" href="./../geld-anlage-f209/die-wahren-hintergruende-der-finanzkrise-t308.html?sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73#p780" title="Beitrag"> <i class="icon fa-file fa-fw icon-lightgray icon-md" aria-hidden="true"></i><span class="sr-only">Beitrag</span> </a> <span class="responsive-hide">von <strong><a href="./../memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&amp;u=218&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="username">Rosen</a></strong> &raquo; </span>Sa 5. Sep 2009, 11:56 </p> <div class="content">Der Hauptverursacher, das würde auch oft in den Medien erwähnt waren die Verluste bei den Immobilienhypotheken. Da kann man sich jetzt berechtigt erstmal die Frage stellen. Wie können ein paar unbeglichene Hypotheken die ganze Welt in eine Finanzkrise treiben? Um diese Frage zu beantworten, muss in Erfahrung gebracht werden wie dieser Bereich des Fi-nanzsystems funktioniert und wie er mit anderen Bereichen in Verbindung steht. Ich glaube ich habe mal gehört, dass sich die Verluste der Hypotheken auf ca. 500 Milliarden Dollar be-laufen sollen. Das ist zwar ganz schön viel Geld, doch wenn man berücksichtigt, dass sich die globale Bankaktiva auf 80 bis 90 Billionen Dollar belaufen, sind 500 Milliarden nun doch nicht so viel. Nun aber wieder weg von den Zahlen. Wie du sicherlich weißt funktionieren Immobilienhypotheken bzw. Kredite so, jemand hat ein Haus oder will ein Haus bauen und braucht Geld. Er borgt sich von einer Bank Geld und hinterlegt als Sicherheit dieses Haus, mal ganz grob gesprochen. Nun muss jemand entscheiden wie viel ist das Haus wert was na-türlich die Kreditsumme beeinflusst. In der ersten Zeit wurde noch Festzinshypotheken be-nutzt. Das Risiko trägt also die Bank. Wenn sie sich im Wert des Hauses verschätzt oder der Wert der Immobilie sinkt und der Geldnehmer seiner Pflicht nicht mehr nachkommen kann, dann hat die Bank Geld verloren. Da die Laufzeit dieser Hypotheken meist 40 Jahre waren und die Zahl der so finanzierten Immobilien stetig stieg waren Verluste für die Banken vor-programmiert. <br> <br> In den 1980 Jahren waren in der USA viele Sparkassen eigentlich insolvent, als die Refinan-zierungszinssätze auf 15% gehoben werden mussten, das war weit über den 6% der 40-jährigen Festzinshypotheken, die in den 1960 Jahren in den USA vergeben wurden. Diese Insolvenz führte dazu, dass in der Folge Hypotheken mit variablen Zinsen versehen wurden. Jetzt wurde also das Risiko auf die Hausbesitzer abgeladen. Diese konnten in der nächsten Hochzinsphase (1990) die Zinserhöhungen nicht verkraften und mussten ihre Zahlungen ein-stellen. Bei hohen Marktzinsen sind auch die Immobilien wenig wert. <br> <br> Die Verbriefung von Hypotheken bietet die Möglichkeit die Risiken an Dritte weiter zu ge-ben. Es wird also nicht mehr das Geld der Banken verliehen, sondern das Geld von „Sparern“. Von diesen wurde angenommen, dass sie die Risiken besser schultern konnten. Bei der Ver-briefung von Hypotheken können Verfahren der Paketbildung angewendet werden. Es können auch Pakete mit verschiedenen Risiken gebildet werden. Also Pakete mit geringem Ausfallri-siko und welche mit hohem Ausfallrisiko. Bei der Verbriefung von Hypotheken in den USA wurde versäumt, die Banken für die Kreditrisiken haftbar zu machen. Bei deutschen Pfand-briefen zum Beispiel, bleibt die emittierende voll in der Haftung.<br> <br> Das hatte zunächst keine negativen Auswirkungen, da die Erfinder der Hypothekenverbrie-fung die Staatsnahen Banken Fannie Mae und Freddie Mac waren. Diese übernahmen die Haftung und stellten dadurch gewisse Mindestanforderungen an die Qualität der Hypotheken (Prime Mortages).<br> <br> Ab dem Jahr 2000 drängten zunehmend Investmentbanken in dieses lukrative Verbriefungs-geschäft. Diese übernahmen KEINE Haftung und konzentrierten sich gerade auf die Schul-dendienste, die den Qualitätsansprüchen von Fannie Mae und Freddie Mac nicht genügten (Subprime Montages). <br> <br> Wie es nun weiter ging, kann man sich vorstellen. Ich persönlich würde sagen, das war der Anfang der letzten Finanzkrise.</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="back2top"> <a href="#top" class="top" title="Nach oben"> <i class="icon fa-chevron-circle-up fa-fw icon-gray" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="sr-only">Nach oben</span> </a> </div> </div> <div class="action-bar bar-bottom"> <a href="./../posting.php?mode=reply&amp;t=308&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73" class="button" title="Antwort erstellen"> <span>Antworten</span> <i class="icon fa-reply fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> </a> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-button-control topic-tools"> <span title="Themen-Optionen" class="button button-secondary dropdown-trigger dropdown-select"> <i class="icon fa-wrench fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="caret"><i class="icon fa-sort-down fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i></span> </span> <div class="dropdown"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <ul class="dropdown-contents"> <li> <a href="./../viewtopic.php?t=308&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73&amp;view=print" title="Druckansicht" accesskey="p"> <i class="icon fa-print fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i><span>Druckansicht</span> </a> </li> </ul> </div> </div> <form method="post" action="./../viewtopic.php?t=308&amp;sid=80e605018294c5f992d0a564e5e06e73"> <div class="dropdown-container dropdown-container-left dropdown-button-control sort-tools"> <span title="Anzeige- und Sortierungs-Einstellungen" class="button button-secondary dropdown-trigger dropdown-select"> <i class="icon fa-sort-amount-asc fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i> <span class="caret"><i class="icon fa-sort-down fa-fw" aria-hidden="true"></i></span> </span> <div class="dropdown hidden"> <div class="pointer"><div class="pointer-inner"></div></div> <div class="dropdown-contents"> <fieldset class="display-options"> <label>Anzeigen: <select name="st" id="st"><option value="0" selected="selected">Alle Beiträge</option><option value="1">1 Tag</option><option value="7">7 Tage</option><option value="14">2 Wochen</option><option value="30">1 Monat</option><option value="90">3 Monate</option><option value="180">6 Monate</option><option value="365">1 Jahr</option></select></label> <label>Sortiere nach: <select name="sk" id="sk"><option value="a">Autor</option><option value="t" selected="selected">Erstellungsdatum</option><option value="s">Betreff</option></select></label> <label>Richtung: <select name="sd" id="sd"><option value="a" selected="selected">Aufsteigend</option><option value="d">Absteigend</option></select></label> <hr class="dashed" /> <input type="submit" class="button2" name="sort" value="Los" /> </fieldset> </div> </div> </div> </form> <div class="pagination"> 4 Beiträge &bull; 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