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<!DOCTYPE html>   <html>  <head><script type="text/javascript" src="https://web-static.archive.org/_static/js/bundle-playback.js?v=7YQSqjSh" charset="utf-8"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="https://web-static.archive.org/_static/js/wombat.js?v=txqj7nKC" charset="utf-8"></script> <script>window.RufflePlayer=window.RufflePlayer||{};window.RufflePlayer.config={"autoplay":"on","unmuteOverlay":"hidden"};</script> <script type="text/javascript" src="https://web-static.archive.org/_static/js/ruffle/ruffle.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> __wm.init("https://web.archive.org/web"); __wm.wombat("http://www.independent.co.uk:80/voices/eu-referendum-negotiations-is-there-some-way-we-can-make-both-sides-lose-this-referendum-a6883441.html","20160610164623","https://web.archive.org/","web","https://web-static.archive.org/_static/", "1465577183"); </script> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="https://web-static.archive.org/_static/css/banner-styles.css?v=p7PEIJWi" /> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="https://web-static.archive.org/_static/css/iconochive.css?v=3PDvdIFv" />  <title>Is there some way we can make both sides lose the EU referendum? | Voices | The Independent</title>   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://d3c3cq33003psk.cloudfront.net/"/> <meta http-equiv="X-UA-Compatible" content="IE=edge"/> <link href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-referendum-negotiations-is-there-some-way-we-can-make-both-sides-lose-this-referendum-a6883441.html?amp" rel="amphtml"/> <meta property="article:section" content="Voices"/> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://static.standard.co.uk/"/> <link rel="dns-prefetch" href="//web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://static.independent.co.uk/"/> <meta name="article:external_link_count" content="0"/> <meta name="article:internal_link_count" content="2"/> <meta name="article:author_name" content="Mark Steel"/> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1"/> <meta name="article:subsection" content=""/> <meta name="article:content_type" content="story"/> <meta name="drupal_parsely_version" id="drupal_parsely_version" content="0.1"/> <script type="application/ld+json" content="Parsely metadata">{"@context":"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20160610164623\/http:\/\/schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","articleId":"6883441","creator":"Maxwell Benwell","dateCreated":"2016-02-19T09:25:18Z","headline":"Is there some way we can make both sides lose the EU referendum?","url":"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20160610164623\/http:\/\/www.independent.co.uk\/voices\/eu-referendum-negotiations-is-there-some-way-we-can-make-both-sides-lose-this-referendum-a6883441.html","keywords":["David Cameron","EU","UKIP","Nigel Farage","EU negotiations"],"articleSection":"Voices","thumbnailUrl":"https:\/\/web.archive.org\/web\/20160610164623\/http:\/\/static.independent.co.uk\/s3fs-public\/thumbnails\/image\/2016\/02\/19\/09\/David-Cameron-EU.jpg"}</script> <meta name="article:word_count" content="988"/> <meta name="article:image_count" content="2"/> <meta name="article:video_count" content="0"/> <meta name="article:embed_count" content="0"/> <meta name="description" content="Oh I don’t know what to do. On the one hand, if we vote to stay in we’ll get David Cameron waving and smiling and looking triumphant, and doing anything to make that happen will make your soul go dark yellow and spew up green sticky liquid. But if we vote to leave, that would please Farage, and pleasing Farage must surely be illegal if we’ve made any progress at all since the thirteenth century."/> <meta name="keywords" content="EU, David Cameron, Nigel Farage, UKIP, EU negotiations, Voices"/> <meta name="generator" content="Drupal 7 (http://drupal.org)"/> <link rel="canonical" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-referendum-negotiations-is-there-some-way-we-can-make-both-sides-lose-this-referendum-a6883441.html"/> <meta property="fb:admins" content="729735830"/> <meta property="fb:app_id" content="235586169789578"/> <meta property="og:site_name" content="The Independent"/> <meta property="og:type" content="article"/> <meta property="og:title" content="Mark Steel: Is there some way we can make both sides lose the EU referendum?"/> <meta property="og:url" content="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-referendum-negotiations-is-there-some-way-we-can-make-both-sides-lose-this-referendum-a6883441.html"/> <meta property="og:description" content="Oh I don’t know what to do. On the one hand, if we vote to stay in we’ll get David Cameron waving and smiling and looking triumphant, and doing anything to make that happen will make your soul go dark yellow and spew up green sticky liquid. But if we vote to leave, that would please Farage, and pleasing Farage must surely be illegal if we’ve made any progress at all since the thirteenth century."/> <meta property="og:updated_time" content="2016-02-19T09:29:42+00:00"/> <meta property="og:image" content="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623im_/http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/19/09/David-Cameron-EU.jpg"/> <meta name="twitter:card" content="summary_large_image"/> <meta name="twitter:site" content="@independent"/> <meta name="twitter:title" content="Is there some way we can make both sides lose the EU referendum?"/> <meta name="twitter:url" content="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/eu-referendum-negotiations-is-there-some-way-we-can-make-both-sides-lose-this-referendum-a6883441.html"/> <meta name="twitter:description" content="Oh I don’t know what to do. On the one hand, if we vote to stay in we’ll get David Cameron waving and smiling and looking triumphant, and doing anything to make that happen will make your soul go dark yellow and spew up green sticky liquid. But if we vote to leave, that would please Farage, and pleasing Farage must surely be illegal if we’ve made any progress at all since the thirteenth century."/> <meta property="og:locale" content="en_GB"/> <meta property="article:tag" content="EU"/> <meta property="article:tag" content="David Cameron"/> <meta property="article:tag" content="Nigel Farage"/> <meta property="article:tag" content="UKIP"/> <meta property="article:tag" content="EU negotiations"/> <meta property="article:published_time" content="2016-02-19T09:25:18+00:00"/> <meta property="article:modified_time" content="2016-02-19T09:29:42+00:00"/> <link rel="shortcut icon" href="/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/independent_theme/favicon.ico" type="image/ico"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" href="/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/independent_theme/img/apple-icon-60x60.png"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon" 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class="margin" id="cookie-warning"> <a href="#" class="close icon-close" title="OK"></a> <p>We use cookies to enhance your visit to our site and to bring you advertisements that might interest you. Read our <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/service/privacy-policy-a6184181.html">Privacy</a> and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/service/cookie-policy-a6184186.html">Cookies</a> policies to find out more.</p> </div> <div class="tabs"></div> <div class="region region-content"> <article class="full-article" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/NewsArticle"> <header> <ol vocab="http://schema.org/" typeof="BreadcrumbList" class="breadcrumbs clearfix"><li property="itemListElement" typeof="ListItem"><a property="item" typeof="WebPage" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/voices"><span property="name">Voices</span></a></li></ol> <h1 itemprop="headline" class=" voices-title">Is there some way we can make both sides lose the EU referendum?</h1> <div class="intro"> <p><span style="line-height: 23.1111px;">The debate has become about which side will manage to be more horrible to immigrants – what an advert for humanity</span></p> </div> <ul class="caption meta inline-pipes-list"> <li class="author" itemprop="author" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/Person"> <span itemprop="name"><a href="/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/author/mark-steel" title="Mark Steel">Mark Steel</a></span> </li> <li> <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/https://twitter.com/mrmarksteel">@mrmarksteel</a> </li> <li title="19 February 2016 09:05 London"><time data-microtimes="{"published":"1455872700000","display":0,"changed":"1455872700000"}" datetime="09:05, 19 February 2016">Friday 19 February 2016 09:05 BST</time></li> <li class="comments"> <a href="#commentsDiv" id="comment-count" class="icon-comment"></a> </li> </ul> <div id="gigya-share-btns-1"></div> </header> <figure itemprop="associatedMedia image" itemscope itemtype="http://schema.org/ImageObject" class="featured-media medium-width"> <meta itemprop="representativeOfPage" content="true"> <picture title="David-Cameron-EU.jpg">  <source srcset="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623im_/http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_medium/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/19/09/David-Cameron-EU.jpg 1x" media="(min-width: 620px) and (max-width: 929px)"/> <source srcset="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623im_/http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/19/09/David-Cameron-EU.jpg 1x" media="(min-width: 930px) and (max-width: 1239px)"/> <source srcset="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623im_/http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/19/09/David-Cameron-EU.jpg 1x" media="(min-width: 1240px)"/>  <img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623im_/http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/article_small/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/19/09/David-Cameron-EU.jpg" alt="David-Cameron-EU.jpg" title="David-Cameron-EU.jpg"/> </picture> <figcaption itemprop="description" class="caption"> 'If we vote to leave, UKIP won’t be satisfied. Within a year they’ll be screaming “Why should we be part of Earth? This country is being held back by having to travel on the same orbit as poor places like Mexico' <span class="copyright">Peter Macdiarmid/Getty Images</span> </figcaption> </figure> <div class="article-wrapper clearfix"> <div class="main-content-column"> <div class="text-wrapper" itemprop="articleBody"> <p>Oh I don’t know what to do. On the one hand, if we vote to stay in we’ll get <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/DavidCameron" target="_blank">David Cameron</a> waving and smiling and looking triumphant, and doing anything to make that happen will make your soul go dark yellow and spew up green sticky liquid. But if we vote to leave, that would please Farage, and pleasing Farage must surely be illegal if we’ve made any progress at all since the thirteenth century.</p> <p>It’s like watching Manchester United play Chelsea, you spend the whole time thinking of a way that both sides can lose.</p> <p>Half the country seems to be this confused, changing their mind depending on who they last saw talking about it, going “Ugh, Blair wants to stay in, I’m voting out, but ugh, Duncan-Smith wants to come out, I’m voting in.” The best strategy for either side would be to get their most prominent supporters together, then all go and live in Nigeria until it’s over and win by a landslide.</p> <p>Instead, the debate is about which side will manage to be more horrible to immigrants. So the Prime Minister makes statements such as “Due to the success of these talks, Romanians living in Britain will no longer be allowed in a Post Office until they’ve been working here for nine years.”</p> <div class="dnd-widget-wrapper context-sdl_editor_representation type-gallery"><div class="dnd-atom-rendered"><div class="image"><script> <![CDATA[// ><!]]> </script><div class="container grid-mod-gallery" data-scald-gallery="4200286">  <h2 class="gallery-title"><span class="media-prefix icon-gallery"></span>What has the EU ever done for us?</h2> <div class="images">  <ul><li class="lazy " data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/04/16/cafe-paris.jpg"> <a data-gallery-thumb="1" href="#"><span class="pager icon-arrow-left"></span></a> <a data-gallery-thumb="1" href="#"><span class="pager icon-arrow-right"></span></a> </li> <li class="lazy " data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/storylist/public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/08/16/Job-interview2.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');"> <a data-gallery-thumb="2" href="#"></a> </li> <li class="lazy " data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/storylist/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/04/16/UK holidaymakers.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');"> <a data-gallery-thumb="3" href="#"></a> </li> <li class="lazy " data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/storylist/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/04/16/GettyImages-498821320.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');"> <a data-gallery-thumb="4" href="#"></a> </li> <li> <a class="show-all initial-open" href="#"> <span class="additional-photos icon-gallery">7</span> <span class="label">show all</span> </a> </li> </ul></div> </div> <div class="full-gallery"> <div class="scroller"> <a href="#" class="close icon-close" title="Close gallery"></a> <h2 class="gallery-title"><span class="media-prefix icon-gallery"></span>What has the EU ever done for us?</h2> <div class="images"> <ul><li data-gallery-item="1" data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/04/16/cafe-paris.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');" class=""></li> <li data-gallery-item="2" data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/08/16/Job-interview2.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');" class=""></li> <li data-gallery-item="3" data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/04/16/UK holidaymakers.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');" class=""></li> <li data-gallery-item="4" data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/04/16/GettyImages-498821320.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');" class=""></li> <li data-gallery-item="5" data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/11/14/eiffel-tower-france_0.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');" class=""></li> <li data-gallery-item="6" data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/04/16/UK-trade-with-EU.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');" class=""></li> <li data-gallery-item="7" data-original="http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/23/19/11-westminster-get.jpg" style="background-image: url('/web/20160610164623im_/http://www.independent.co.uk/sites/all/themes/ines_themes/ines_theme/img/blank.gif');" class=""></li> </ul><span class="icon-arrow-left"></span> <span class="icon-arrow-right"></span> <a href="#" class="pager prev" title="Previous photo"></a> <a href="#" class="pager next" title="Next photo"></a> </div> <ul class="legends"><li data-gallery-legend="1"> <h2> <span class="counter">1/7</span>  1. It gives you freedom to live, work and retire anywhere in Europe </h2>  <p>As a member of the EU, UK citizens benefit from freedom of movement across the continent. Considered one of the so-called four pillars of the European Union, this freedom allows all EU citizens to live, work and travel in other member states.</p>  </li> <li data-gallery-legend="2"> <h2> <span class="counter">2/7</span>  2. It sustains millions of jobs </h2>  <p>A report by the Centre for Economics and Business Research, released in October 2015, suggested 3.1 million British jobs were linked to the UK’s exports to the EU.</p>  </li> <li data-gallery-legend="3"> <h2> <span class="counter">3/7</span>  3. Your holiday is much easier - and safer </h2>  <p>Freedom to travel is one of the most exercised benefits of EU membership, with Britons having made 31 million visits to the EU in 2014 alone. But a lot of the benefits of being an EU citizen are either taken for granted or go unnoticed.</p>  </li> <li data-gallery-legend="4"> <h2> <span class="counter">4/7</span>  4. It means you're less likely to get ripped off </h2>  <p>Consumer protection is a key benefit of the EU’s single market, and ensures members of the British public receive equal consumer rights when shopping anywhere in Europe.</p>  </li> <li data-gallery-legend="5"> <h2> <span class="counter">5/7</span>  5. It offers greater protection from terrorists, paedophiles, people traffickers and cyber-crime </h2>  <p>Another example of a lesser-known advantage of EU membership is the benefit of cross-country coordination and cooperation in the fight against crime.</p>  </li> <li data-gallery-legend="6"> <h2> <span class="counter">6/7</span>  6. Our businesses depend on it </h2>  <p>According to 71% of all members of the Confederation of British Influence (CBI), and 67 per cent of small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), the EU has had an overall positive impact on their business.</p>  </li> <li data-gallery-legend="7"> <h2> <span class="counter">7/7</span>  7. We have greater influence </h2>  <p>Robin Niblett, Director of think-tank Chatham House, stated in a report published last year: “For a mid-sized country like the UK, which will never again be economically dominant either globally or regionally, and whose diplomatic and military resources are declining in relative terms, being a major player in a strong regional institution can offer a critical lever for international influence.</p>  </li> </ul><div class="ad-mpu mpu5-container"> </div> </div> </div> </div></div></div> <p>But Farage replies “What the British people want to know is when are Bulgarians going to be stopped from using our pavements? These are paid for by the British taxpayer, and if they can’t be bothered to hover, frankly they can go back home.</p> <p>George Osborne will retort that only if we remain within Europe can we complete a pan-European plan to build a giant electric fire and drop it in the Adriatic Sea so any Syrian falling in gets instantly electrocuted.</p> <p>Then the Vote to Leave Campaign will explain that once we’re out of the EU, Poles will still be allowed to work on building sites but no longer be allowed sharp objects so they have to drill holes using a balloon, and they’ll have to commute every morning from Poland and go back to Cracow when they need the toilet. “Our cisterns simply can’t take the strain of flushing away anymore Polish turds”, he’ll shriek at a rally, and everyone will cheer and wave a Union Jack. </p> <p>The proudest moment for David Cameron has been cutting child benefits for immigrants. What an advert for humanity, that one side says “Through determination to stick up for Britain, we have secured the right to be utterly mean bastards. Indeed we are now proposing a Europe-wide Total Bastard Treaty in which all member states unite in an unprecedented pledge to reject any act of even the mildest fake kindness.”</p> <div class="inline-block inline-block-related-single inline-block-right"><a href="/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-cameron-eu-reform-deal-immigration-migrants-in-work-benefit-rules-ever-closer-union-treaty-a6880846.html"><img src="https://web.archive.org/web/20160610164623im_/http://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/readmore_card/public/thumbnails/image/2016/01/21/22/EU-Getty.jpg"/><div class="content"> <div class="context-capsule">Read more</div> <h2>The 4 remaining sticking points for David Cameron’s EU reform deal</h2> </div> </a></div> <p>But their opponents rage that none of that will prevent sixty billion Bulgarians coming to live in Ipswich, each of them entitled to bring a Balkan mountain which will completely transform the topography of Suffolk. </p> <p>So the negotiations appear to have been pointless, as the arguments will be exactly the same whatever is agreed. Cameron’s campaign will try to scare people as they did in Scotland, by informing us that if we leave the EU our fruit will explode and our cats will turn inside-out.</p> <p>Then the Out campaign will respond with a front page in the Daily Express saying "Now the French are insisting on European standard sizes for breasts, based on those tiny useless petite Gallic ones they all like, outlawing the huge British breasts we prefer because we won the war and didn’t roll over when Hitler came round".</p> <p>After a worrying opinion poll, Cameron will announce sternly the Institute for Money and Spending has predicted if we leave, by 2018 everyone in Britain will be a cannibal.</p> <p>Then UKIP will tell us the barmy bureaucrats of Brussels will destroy our agriculture by classifying the cow as a type of herring and making our farmers throw their cattle in the Atlantic.</p> <p>The European Union does appear to be a corrupt undemocratic institution, with rules against nationalising too many services, and rules against electing the wrong kind of government, as illustrated when they demanded the Greek government followed the policies of the bankers, rather than take notice of the interfering population who voted for them. </p> <p>But our government’s only complaint against this has been that the EU suggested too many controls on how much our bankers were paid in bonuses. What an outrage, dictating to us that our bankers can’t rob how much they like off us. Next they’ll be insisting our burglars should have to leave a couple of items of furniture when they ransack our house. That’s Europe for you, meddling with our historic right to be fleeced by the banks.</p> <p>So the referendum won’t solve any of this. If we vote to leave, UKIP won’t be satisfied. Within a year they’ll be screaming “Why should we be part of Earth? This country is being held back by having to travel on the same orbit as poor places like Mexico, and why should we have the same gravity as Morocco?”</p> <p>And if we vote to stay in, it will become clear these negotiations have been a contrived exercise to make Cameron look powerful. All the leaders wander into a room looking serious, then probably play games on their mobiles for seven hours, before emerging to say “It’s been a tough night but we’ve finally come to an agreement that everything will be done differently, even in a different font. The Hungarians took a lot of persuading but we hope that settles everything.”</p> <p>It would serve them right on all sides if we voted to leave the EU and become a province of Peru.</p> <meta itemprop="datePublished" content="2016-02-19T09:05:00+00:00"/> <ul class="inline-pipes-list"> <li> More about: </li> <li><a itemprop="keywords" href="/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/EU">EU</a></li> <li><a itemprop="keywords" href="/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/DavidCameron">David Cameron</a></li> <li><a itemprop="keywords" href="/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/nigel-farage">Nigel Farage</a></li> <li><a itemprop="keywords" href="/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/UKIP">UKIP</a></li> <li><a itemprop="keywords" href="/web/20160610164623/http://www.independent.co.uk/topic/eu-negotiations">EU negotiations</a></li> </ul> <div id="gigya-share-btns-2"></div> </div> <div class="taboola"> <div 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