Deseret Morning News | Reader comments: Huckabee questions LDS beliefs

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12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mike Huckabee--conservative republican; Lawrence O'Donnell--liberal democrat-->Both IGNORANT jerks!<br><br>Too bad that people are either so simple-minded, that they grasp a random piece of mormon doctrine, throw it out there, and are never able to first include it in any kind of context. Maybe they should do some studying first, and actually try to understand church teachings before they try to comment on it. This is akin to ripping on any church's doctrine without first trying to understand it.<br><br>Huckabee's "awe shucks", "I'm a baptist" campaing will lose! I sure hope no Mormons vote for him if he is the Republican candidate.<br><br>O'Donnell's study seems limited to anti-mormon websites. What a jerk!!! Get off your agenda, O'Donell. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Thank you Hickabee</b> | 1:05 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I am a Mormon, and I don't go around ripping on Baptists, Agnostics, Atheists, Catholics, whatever....<br><br>I don't mind discussing DOCTRINES with people of other faiths, but I don't like ripping on other churches, and I don't think it is appropriate for presidential candidates to comment on the doctrine of other faiths. </div> </div> <div class="continue"> Comments continue below </div> <div id="ad_300" class="ad"> <div id="ad6Sp"></div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mr. T</b> | 1:16 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> O'Donnell might have gotten his information off anti-Mormon website, but isn't it the truth? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>MTN</b> | 1:22 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Romney's line about tolerance being a shallow concept if we only tolerate those with whom we agree is applicable here. I'm sure O'Donnell thinks he is a progressive of the most principled sort: most accepting of alternative lifestyles and diversity... but what kind of intolerant bigotry is this! It's very upsetting to hear that from a self-professed liberal. I am tired of intolerant, judgmental people calling other people intolerant and judgmental. I am not a Romney fan, but I like his line about tolerance. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Patrick</b> | 1:28 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I wish Romney's people or some of you media types with some influence would set the record straight. Mormons are some of the least racist people around and have been since the beginning. Joseph Smith was never pro-slavery, thats an outright lie. The early saints were mainly northerners who were against slavery. Joseph even ordained a few African American Men to the priesthood. And Black people have always been able to be baptised and welcomed in the church. The Priesthood issue is a story for another time, but keep in mind that God didn't give the Priesthood to all the Israelites in the Old testiment, only Aaron and the Levites, was he racists? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mormon Democrat</b> | 1:31 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I have to say I am not surprised by Huckabee starting to use the Mormon-card to further his campaign, now that he is gaining some press. You can never trust the religious right and Romney should have learned that by now.<br><br>At the same time, I have to say O'Donnell's comments are about as inappropriate and uncalled for and unbecoming of a true Democrat as I have heard in a long time. Taking shots generally at a whole religion along with individuals is absolutely ridiculous and disgusting. He is practicing exactly what he is preaching against and it demonstrates that he has actually done very little research on the topic, aside from the tabloids and perhaps a few Hollywood friends of his. What a loser. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Why?</b> | 1:32 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why do people write things about others and their beliefs when they have no idea what they are talking about? A little research on Mormonism would eliminate a lot of questions and hatered. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 1:40 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Baptists believe all forms of dance will send you to hell! Muslims believe that you either join them or die according to Mohammed! Go Obama! Catholics believe you can do whatever the heck you want as long as you go and talk to a Priest behind a cage and confess to him your sins then all is well. Then you can do this all over again! Evangelicals believe that God places words in your mouth and then you can speak in tongues while rolling around on the floor and no one knows what the heck you are saying! Right! Church of Christ believes if you have a bus in the parking lot you are a liberal church and going to hell!<br><br>Sounds ignorant but same goes for all of the tidbits people are grabbing and throwing at Romney as if that is what the Mormon Church believes.<br><br>This can be said for all religions if you are a bigot! If you want to know what a church believes it is best to study their doctrine rather than their anti doctrine written by other churches.<br><br>Shame of the bigots! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Relevance?</b> | 1:43 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Can't help but wonder what Mitt's, or any other candidate's, religion has to do with their ability to be a good president. We need a person with good morale standards as President. Mitt meets that qualification. I believe he is also a good businessman, and a good leader. The fact that he is active in the Church adds to his morale strength, but it isn't the only thing that should be considered. I wish the evangelicals and Southern Baptists, and whoever else, would either do some UNBIASED studying, or simply be quiet when it comes to Mitt's religion. Their ignorance is showing. Is Mitt qualified to be President or not? Not, "Is Mitt qualified to be the first Mormon President?" And please, polygamy was banned over 100 years ago! Get over it already! Jeffs isn't a Mormon. We believe in Christ, we are Christians. Our perceptions are different, but we have the same goals. Yes, Christ and Satan are brothers in the spirit, but Satan chose a different path. Again, what does that have to do with a Presidential election? I suggest everyone should focus on the relevant issues, not differing religious beliefs, and move forward. Play a different note! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Carlyle Parker</b> | 2:01 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> When did Mike Huckabee permit a Black to<br>join his congregation and what percentage of his congregation was Black when he retired? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Finally the truth comes out!</b> | 2:11 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I'm glad to see explicitly what all these pundits and candidates have meant all along about Mitt explaining the "relationship to his faith". It means that these people all hate Mormons and want to know if Mitt really associates himself with the LDS church. <br><br>It's great to get all this stuff on the table. The Baptist church and so many others are so completely full of hatred and lies about the LDS faith that it borders on HATE CRIME. <br><br>If Mitt has to come out on all LDS doctrine, then I want to see it on a national panel where ALL the candidates air their religious views and affiliations. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Fred</b> | 3:41 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Anonymous | 1:40 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007, I don't understand your line, "Muslims believe that you either join them or die according to Mohammed! Go Obama!"<br><br>Obama is a Christian. Apparently you have bought the Rush Limbaugh Obama-Osama-Obama-Osama line and have become confused, just as Rush wanted. Make no mistake, Obama is Christian, but the Republicans want you to believe otherwise in an attempt to use religious bigotry to their advantage. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Disingenuous</b> | 3:46 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckleberry knows quite well all of the nuances of LDS doctrine and will be pinching off sly questions like this regularly. Baptists evangelists are preoccupied with what they see as the "evil" LDS doctrines but rarely bother to study them in a whole hearted way. Any human sincerely seeking Jesus can receive a testimony of the Restoration, but all this man wishes to do is tear down. I could do the same but to what end? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>GWB</b> | 3:49 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Gee, people in Utah are upset that Baptist beliefs are being espoused by the rising star of the GOP?<br><br>Think about it, Utah is about the only state that where over 50% still approves of the job Bush is doing. There are only 6-8 million members of the LDS church in the US and many of those are kids that cant vote. <br><br>Huckabee knows that he can criticize the Mormon faith and alienate the Mormons without losing much nationally.<br><br>Besides, he knows that when Utahn's get it the voting both, most would vote for an anti-Mormon Baptist preacher that is Republican that vote for a Democrat (Even though it IS possible to be a Mormon and a Democrat).<br><br>This is the calculus that Huckabee is using, he knows that Utah would vote for him over any Democrat even if he calls you all cultist. I wish I was wrong on this, but one must ask would you vote for Obama over Huckabee? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>MT in MD</b> | 3:56 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Who DIDN'T see this coming? The exceedingly upright, looking-out-for-the-common-man national media, which apparently are the arbiters of all that is good, true and important in national politics, has been pushing Mitt to make "The Mormon Speech" in order to finally move "The Mormon Question" off the table. By having now made the speech, Romney has opened the door to exactly this kind of silliness. Rather than continuing to take the principled stand that "The church I belong to will not affect or influence the way I would govern as President, please move along to the next question," Mitt has pretty much made his religion an issue relevant to the campaign with the speech. Now that it is on the table, anyone with a crackpot notion can put it out there and attack him and the church. This hurts Romney's campaign. I believe the media is on the Huckabee bandwagon these days because of their cynical belief that the American electorate will not elect a religious nutjob--which Huckabee is now beginning to look like. Mitt, on the other hand, is a serious, religious guy who would make a great President--and that scares the great and powerful media. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>DJY</b> | 4:22 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> A canidates relogion should have NOTHING what so ever to do with wether they will be a good President or not. The canidates should ALL focus on the issues and not on each others religious beliefs. I happen to be a Mormon, but I will not vote for Mitt Romney as he is a Republican and I am a Democrat. That is the ONLY reason I will not vote for him. I do agree that before someone comments on someone's religion that they should do at least a little research first!! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>But the Mormon Church is Racist</b> | 4:40 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Dear "Thank you Hickabee" <br><br>Let's discuss that DOCTRINE of the LDS church. Specifically, the doctrine of institutionalized racism.<br><br>The basis for institutionalized racisim of the Mormon Church comes from the Pearl of Great Price and various revalations/quotations by Mormon leaders in official church publications, which are considered scripture. (And yes, justification for some of it is drawn from Biblical passages too. Christianity and the bible are not perfect or immune from such critism.) <br><br>The Mormon Church did not permit black people to participate in the uber secret (supposedly essential "saving ordinences") of the temple, denied black people to ability obtain the Mormon priesthood, and denied black people positions of leadership--until the late 1970s! The church practiced this on doctrinal grounds, believing that god specifically did not want black people to have the same rights as non-black Mormons.<br><br>I find it very revealing that on the issue of racial equality, the Mormon church was way behind the times. And I find it very sad that many Mormons are unable to come to grips with the fact that their religion practiced instututionalized racism. But I am not surprised this is happening in the "I'm not sure we teach that" era. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>true blue</b> | 4:44 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> O' Donnell doesn't know what he's talking about. The blacks and the priesthood didn't start until Brigham Young. People always focus on what is bad instead of what is good. I was really liking Huckabee until this. HOwever, it will probably gain him support in certain arenas. I am suprised that he doesn't know that much about mormons though. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>lamonte</b> | 4:54 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> As a practicing Mormon and a life long Democrat I must say I am stunned, shocked and disgusted by the comments of Lawrence O'Donnell. For some time I have seen him as a voice of reason on the otherwise rediculously right slanted "McGlaughlin Group" but that ends today. I will be spending some of my day tracking his contact information and expressing my disgust to him personally.<br><br>As for Huckabee and the religious right - is this surprising behavior to anyone? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Max</b> | 5:14 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I am amazed at how hateful, uninformed and openly biggoted a guy as smart as Lawrence O'Donnell is. Do a little research Mr. O'Donnell! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Danny Chipman</b> | 5:28 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It is always interesting when people cite the allowance of blacks to hold the priesthood beginning in 1978 as a racist tenet. By O'Donnell's own logic, isn't Christianity also "racist"? In the New Testament, Christ forbade his apostles to preach to non-Jews or allow them to joing His church, until the proper time. Only He knew when that would be. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Svoboda</b> | 5:32 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> People take an LDS belief and then twist it to suit their less than honorable purposes. Shamne on them all, for they are purposefully lying to others. OK, whose the "real" brother of the Devil? Those who emulate him while on Earth. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>james stowe</b> | 5:47 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mitt and the LDS don't want the truth known.<br><br>There is no way he can keep the LDS faith out of his decisions.<br><br>The LDS have always been political not neutral.<br><br>Don't you mormons remember years ago that in every meeting you were told to vote against the ERA amendment, LOTTERY, and not to vote to overturn BLUE LAWS (SHOPPING ON SUNDAYS) along with many other issues.<br><br>I SAY AND BELIEVE THESE THINGS......AMEN. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Satan's Brother</b> | 5:57 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Oh boy! Here we go again. Deceptions, twisting half truths and attacking the LDS Church. Yup, as a Mormon I believe that God created all beings spiritually and in that sense we are all brothers and sisters. Some churches conveniently lump "Angels" into a separate category of God's creation and teach that Satan is a "fallen Angel". In the end most every church teaches that Satan is a creation of God. If we are all creations of God are we not somehow related spiritaually to Christ, God's only begotton in the flesh? My experience is that every challenge to doctrine has a reasonable explanation. In the end it is a matter of faith. Why can't people see bigotry and hate for what it is? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Cliff Goodman</b> | 6:02 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> With all due respect for our friends of other denominations: this is what Huckabee's ascent in the polls is all about. The Born-Again Christians have accelerated their preaching from the pulpit (which they have done for many years) about the evils of LDS theology. Huckabee, as one of their own, offers an alternative, and this fact is being exploited.<br><br>While the LDS Church is very careful to stay out of politics, other churches, or at least their ministers (whose livelihood is, after all, threatened by the LDS system of Church leadership), don't seem to have the same scruples! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>AZMike</b> | 6:04 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I believe America will not stand for this! Just about everyone here in this great country has an LDS neighbor, co-worker, etc, and sees the lives that they live. Those people will realize that the hatred being spouted by these folks is simply un-true and hopefully will go to the polls and vote their conscience. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Timj</b> | 6:04 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Watch...if Huckabee is chosen as the Republican candidate, Utah will vote him in for President rather than vote for a Democrat. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Diane</b> | 6:05 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Amen<br>Thank you </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mr B</b> | 6:06 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It sounds like Mr Harry Reid, Democrat, needs to give a LDS Church history lesson to Mr O'Donnell. I find it very odd that you can have the most powerful man in Congress be a Mormon but not in the White House. Mormons seem to be able to serve everywhere but the White House. Why??? Well that is because the other positions are not elected by the people at a national level. A Supreme Court justice, a cabinent level position like Sec Leavitt, or a congressman or woman to lead the House or Senate or any comittee therein. It appears that America as a whole has a very hyprocritcal view on freedom of religion. DON'T persecute my religion but I will use my right of free speech to persecute others. So be it, but I would dare say that the True Author of our rights will have something different to say about our freedoms in the coming years for our country if we continue to live our lives like that and He will tell us in catastrophic fashion. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Thomas</b> | 6:16 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Look at the LDS History...there is no doubt that the teaching of Satan and Jesus as brothers is prevelant and intentional. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>maybelle</b> | 6:19 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee and O'Donnell are grasping at straws. Mitt is a very impressive looking person, intelligent and definitely presidential material. Huckabee and O'Donnell can't find anything negative about him and so they resort to anti-mormon tactics.<br>These are men that we can't trust. They have really taken the low road. Huckabee is a bigot and if he is the republican candidate, I will vote democratic for the first time in my life. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Get it out in the open</b> | 6:21 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I made a post 4 hours ago which had nothing offensive...but I do not see it here. This has happened before. Who is censoring comments at the D News?<br><br>The gist: that we finally see what kind of explanation these pundits have been asking for - whether or not Mitt really believes his wacky religion. Let's have a panel and ask all the candidates a list of questions about their faith and whether or not they adhere. <br><br>I think this is all becoming quite transparent as hate and it makes me sick that we have this in our country in this day and age. I hold the extremists in both parties accountable as well as the lazy sound-bite-driven media. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 6:24 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> There was not bashing on Huckabee's part. He asked a question about LDS believes and clearly stated he did not know much about the religion. Where is the bashing? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Debate question</b> | 6:25 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mike Huckabee--Conservative republican! ha.<br>Someone should ask him if he believes LDS/Mormonism is a 'Cult'?...<br> I would love to see him try to squirm/stagger out of that one.<br>What would his conservative college educated supporters think of someone that has hang-ups toward other religions, could he be trusted with world problems? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>O'Donnell is a Bigot</b> | 6:30 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> This bigotry and hatred just reconfirms my beliefs in the restoration, the true and every lasting gospel, and living prophets. Someone should create a reaction poll to Mitt's speech. i bet most Americans felt warm fuzzies when hearing it. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Txmistake</b> | 6:36 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee shows a considerable lack of knowledge with regard to religion and even the Bible. He claims to be a preacher but does not give the other person the right to believe as he chooses. It's clear he is biased and will not get my vote. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Reenie</b> | 6:41 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Of course, Mr. Huckabee. Don't you believe that all of God's children are brothers and sisters? Guess that would include Satan. As for Mr. Reid, what a crummy example as a member of the church. I'm sorry to say that if Mr. Huckabee becomes the candidate I will have to vote for him. ANYONE would be better than any Democrat. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>BOO MSNBC!</b> | 6:43 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I remember when Al Sharpton said some pretty stupid things about Mormons and was BLASTED by the media. Now that one of its own is doing the same thing (even worse in rhetoric) there's no outcry or punishment. This O'Donnel person is an influencer (politics, public perception, etc.) I think those who believe in decency and right should offer to give him an education. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>curious george</b> | 6:50 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> My father taught me growing up in the 50's and 60's that I would likely see the day when the priesthood would be available to all worthy males. He was right, and our family celebrated a much expected event. The restoration occurred step by step by revelation, and the church continues today to evolve by revelation. I'm so grateful for continuing revelation. I would still like to have the Protestants discuss what life after death will be like. Does anyone know what you believe? I wonder if there will be only one idea on this, based on the Bible, of course. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>O Greene</b> | 6:50 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I am Mormon and Republican, but I do not support Mitt Romney for President. His tenure as governor of Massachusetts gives me too much doubt about how he will react to important political issues. I also could not support a bigot like Mike Huckabee. Unfortunately, the leading candidate for the Republican nomination is so liberal I might as well support a Democrat. I hope Ron Paul can gain ground so a true Republican might have a chance. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Barry</b> | 6:50 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Now many in Utah begin to see the value of the separation of Church and State. Now, many Utahn's are fine and dandy with keeping religion a "personal thing." I believe when this all shakes out, many Utahns will vote for either Hillary or Barak, because I can never imagine either of them stooping as low as some repubicans are in terms of a persons belief. Can you really imagine Barack Obama asking the questions that Huckabee has? He just wouldn't do it and as much as some of you despise Hillary, neither would she. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Peanut</b> | 6:58 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> You could expect someone to come with these half-cocked quotes of supposed LDS doctrine that are appearing on this site. <br><br>Frankly, you never gain the upper hand by taking a lower road, when ever you choose to attack a political opponent. Romney has nobody but himself to blame for the comments that will now come from his political ads. He chose to attack Huckabee because he apparently was trailing in the polls in Iowa. In so doing, he becomes the loser. A poor choice!<br><br>As far as the many comments that have been posted, some believing to understand the doctrine about the relationship of Satan with the sons of God, they should read Chapter 12 of Revelations and find out the basis for the LDS belief and what should also be enlightening to anyone attempting to define what that belief is. The "great dragon fought against Michael and his angels. Lucifer was in the presence of God and became Satan when he sought to "destroy the agency of man." verses 7-11 are of especial interest. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Sam Hofer</b> | 6:59 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mixing religion and politics is finally coming to the unwinnable stupidity match that is inevitable. <br>Religion is personal. Politics is public. <br>We're going to suffer before we learn this properly. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>MICHAEL R. LOVERIDGE, J.D.</b> | 7:02 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Senator Harry Reid, devout Mormon and recent speaker at a devotional at Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah: Thanks for "standing by", silently, and saying absolutely nothing about the irrelevent (but malicious) attacks on Romney's religion! Senator, I don't expect you to embrace Romney's political views, but, as a major political leader, do you also endorse the bigotry and libel against his (and your) faith? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 7:02 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I think that having the LDS Church respond to Mr. Huckabee's question shows that they will continue to be involved in Mr. Romney's business if he is elected. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>trr2</b> | 7:03 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Sadly, many people take the LDS church's stance against endorsing political candidates as a stance against politics in general. I regret to inform you that the church definitely takes a stance in policy when it comes to our beliefs--which is why they have consistantly endorsed such causes as the true definition of marriage, the state of the family, and the equal rights amendment. Church leaders will not tell you from the pulpit who to vote for, but on the policies we believe important, we have to take a stand, or else we will lose those things we cherish. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Ted 111</b> | 7:08 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The national, media-driven fixation on religion as a qualification for elective office is absurd. The only issue should be: Who is the most qualified man (or woman) for the job? Religion aside, who is the most capable, able, qualified person to lead this country? Everything else is just a distraction. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Southern Baptist Hypocrisy</b> | 7:14 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mormons denied blacks the priesthood.<br>Southern Babtists hung blacks from trees. End of story. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Religion</b> | 7:18 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Do people really think that tearing others down makes them look good? The last thing I would do is vote for, or support anyone who has to tear someone else apart for thier faith. Our society is going down hill in a hurry! We can't discuss health care issues or educational reform, or how to get us off foriegn oil, we have to talk about religion. Pretty sad! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Ian</b> | 7:18 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Thomas | 6:16 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 ... instead of telling us what the mormon belief is, tell us what you believe. Very sincerely, I don't get how you reconcile the belief that: (1) God created all things (surely you don't think the devil created himself?), and that we are all the offspring of God. And, (2) The devil and Christ are unrelated. If you believe that satan is real, then how did he appear? Was he created by a different God?<br><br>To me, it's affirming to know that my Father in Heaven is omniscient and all-powerful. I believe that He made all things - and that's no cucko, way-out bizarre doctrine. It makes more sense to me that satan is a creation of God (making him the offspring of God), and satan was blessed with agency (free will) and he used this to rebel against God.<br><br>How is this doctrine so weird? I just don't get it. Not believing this to be the case is weird and requires all sorts of doctrinal contortions. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 7:18 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> In the Bible, John 20:17, Jesus speaking to humans on the earth says, I go to my father and your father. The father of Jesus is God, so all human beings are brothers and sisters of Jesus which would include Hitler. So Jesus and Hitler are brothers. So why is it so hard to believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Racism</b> | 7:21 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To "But the Mormon Church Is Racist": Talking about racism- Wasn't the Southern Baptist Convention formed, because they were PRO-slavery? And talking about "behind the times": It took them up until 1995, to make an offical declaration, where they admitted to racism in the past and distanced themselves from it. Correct me if I'm wrong. It's not always just the Mormons, but sometimes Evangelicals want to make it appear like it is.<br><br>You can call the ban on the priesthood whatever you want. Fact is, that EVERY african-american member is entitled to the priesthood now. I think this is great! And it's somewhat unique to the mormon church, that every father can hold the priesthood to bless his family, and every single man, to bless the lives of people around them. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Boston</b> | 7:35 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The fact that any candidate would make such a statement confirms the importance of Governor Romney's speach. Governor Huckabee's comments only serve to prove that religion will play an important role with a discriminatory and negative impact if elected. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>My thoughts</b> | 7:42 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I think both Rev. Huckabee (who IS well versed on LDS doctrine, regardless what he says) and Mr. O'Donnell need a Come to Jesus moment - or at best, a Come To Zion moment. Both need to meet and personally know some of us. I'm sure they can meet with some nice young men. <br><br>Better yet. Let's get both address, and send copies of the Book of Mormon to both! Think about it. Everyone goes up, buys a cheap paperback copy, writes their testamoney and mails it to them! Not a bad idea! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>KK</b> | 7:45 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Is it true? The Brothers statement. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>jTo Barry</b> | 7:48 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mrs. Clinton (first names? get real) has recently wondered aloud "I wonder how many wives Romney has". Mr. Obama belongs to a racist church (on the other side of the color wheel), yet his own mother is white. <br><br>I will NOT vote for either of these two. I value a handfull of things like Marriage, life, and ability to be rise as high as I can on my own, and not held down by the governments who take, take, take. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>T PETE</b> | 7:48 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> My only comment is do we want a president that shoots off comments and makes decissions on what he thinks is the true like Huckabee or one who researches things and knows the facts before making comments or dissicions </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Arizona Reader</b> | 7:52 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I guess Governor Huckabee has opened the door to doctrinal issues. In the upcoming debates tonight, someone ought to ask him if he believes, as do most evangelicals, that Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists Episcopals, Mormons, Jews, etc. are all going to hell. How would he feel about being president to constituents, where 80% are going to hell? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Carl</b> | 7:53 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why are people so worried about the pre-1978 ban on blacks holding the priesthood. Nobody outside the church thinks the church even has the priesthood so they are angry that the church would not give a black man something they did not believe the church had anyway. There were many black men who belonged to the church who understood the doctrine and if they did not have a problem with it, why should anyone else? Now, all worthy males may be ordained. That excludes all unworthy males, women and so is that discriminatory too? <br><br>Did the baptist church sanction slavery? The LDS church did not? Who was racist and who was not? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>lamonte</b> | 7:53 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Michael R. Loveridge, JD - Have we seen outrage from ANY of the LDS members of Congress. Shouldn't your challenge be to all LDS members of Congress. O'Donnell may identify himself as a Democrat but he is not an elected official. Why is Harry Reid held to a different standard than Orrin Hatch? Shouldn't Hatch be chiding Huckabee for his comments? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>To Ian</b> | 7:55 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Very well said.....and I'll bet ya a million bucks that your valid questions will never be answered! The only answer they have is to try and sling mud and influence by confusion. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mark</b> | 7:59 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Didn't Huckabee specifically state that he would never discuss anybody's religion but his own? So what else has he said that he doesn't mean??? And the bigotry he has been trying hard to conceal has now been revealed. He has good debating skills, but would never get my vote now.<br><br>As for O'Donnel...he is a bigot and Democratic hack...and he works for MSNBC...I'm stunned. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Wondering</b> | 8:13 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> "There is no regularly constituted church of Christ on earth, nor any person qualified to administer any church ordinances; nor can there be until new apostles are sent by the Great Head of the Church for whose coming I am seeking." (Roger Williams, prominent 17th century Baptist leader writing in his Picturesque America, p. 502.) <br><br>So where does Mr. Huckabee get off challenging LDS doctrine? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Chris</b> | 8:15 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I'm black and I'm Mormon and there is nothing anyone can say to me to make me change my mind. Unlike most who never do their homework when they calm the church was racist I have done mine and I understabd it. I also understand that God works by his will not that of man. Bottom line is I love this church and I believe it to be true. It saved my life and has given me a relationship with God like I've never had before. Nothing no one can write or say can change that. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Farid @ Pocatello</b> | 8:20 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee said nothing untoward at all. He asked a question based on what he believed to be true. I grew up inside the D.C. Beltway and knew almost nothing about Mormons. When the Temple was built, there was all kinds of wrong information proffered about the Church. I believed it because I didn't know better, and it was only until I met the Missionaries and joined The Churh that I realized how wrong I was. From 1965-1985, I knew exactly one member of The Church while growing up in Falls Church, Virginia. <br><br>A small sample size brings inaccurate info, be it in a poll or in life.<br><br>We can't be angry at people who don't have all the information available. <br><br>By the way, I was born a Muslim and I can quote many instances right here in these comment sections where folks here in Utah derided the Muslim faith based on wrong information. It's easy to get it wrong when you're going on limited information.<br><br>No. Huckabee wasn't being anti-Mormon. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>To Racist</b> | 8:25 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Agreed that other Christian groups were/are racist and have spin operations in full force. But shouldn't the "one true chuch" do more than just spin, as you do so well on their behalf.<br><br>I would applaud and respect the LDS church if it said that, "Hey, our leaders aren't pefercet, past and present. They were products of their time. Hence some early policies were racist and our leaders were way to slow to change that. We were wrong and we've corrected the injustice we imposed on our members. And we have stricken racist statements from conference records and D&C; and Pearl of Great Price."<br><br>Unfortunately for the LDS church, those racist policies were derived from racist scriptures and "prophecies" of church leaders. If the LDS church every admitted a doctrine was wrong or just influenced by its times, well, that would be a problem for an "unchanging gospel."<br><br>The fact will always remain that the LDS church, because GOD TOLD THEM SO, denied blacks full benefits of membership and opposed efforts for blacks to achieve civil rights in the United States. Their racism was derived from doctrinal sources--and is open to such criticism. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Illinois Cougar</b> | 8:29 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee fell from contention for my primary vote the minute he allowed his campaign to become more about why Mormons are bad, than what direction he plans to lead the country. He has had repeated opportunities to move his campain in another direction. His inability, or ineptitude has allowed this to be what his campaign is about. That to me is an indication of one of three things: <br><br>1. He has questionable political record to conceal from conservative republicans, and this is the best he can come up with to insulate himself.<br><br>2.He just isn't strong enough to pull the campain back on course, allowing the talking heads to lead him where they want to go.<br><br>3. He really is a bigot. In which case, in my opinion, he has no business running for president. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>At Least We Know...</b> | 8:31 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> At least we all know what an ignorant, foolish, self-righteous coward Huckabee is. I think these comments only further Romney for showing self and others respect. It is unbelievable that anyone call the Mormons racist. BYU and LDS Business College to name two schools in Utah are some of the most diverse schools in the country. There are more members outside the U.S. than inside. It's amazing that someone with that exposure can sit there and attack someones beliefs that they hold close to them. <br>--Good job Huckabee, way to show your Christ like attributes. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>SSgt Peterson</b> | 8:34 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee! More like Duck and Flee! <br>I see it all the time in the military folks taking stabs at religion... Especially when you say you are from utah. Society (media) takes statements, thoughts, and ideas that notorious people say & skews the perspective of that statement untill it is demoralized. Romney was just going back to the Idea of Freedom that Americans have distorted... That's it... Freedom...<br><br>SSgt Peterson<br>USAF </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>considering the source</b> | 8:34 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It sounds like O'Donell has no problem openly practiciing religous bigotry... </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>USC Trojan</b> | 8:37 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I thought Huckabee was a better man than that. His thoughts on Mormons would lead one to believe that he is bigoted. <br><br>Huckabee was elected by the same people that would elect Bill Clinton.... enough said! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Ernest T. Bass</b> | 8:40 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Won't it be ironic when the wingnuts of the Republican party nominate Huckabee? I'll bet the Utah LDS will still vote for him because they believe the Republican party is the only true and living party on the face of the earth. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Jack</b> | 8:45 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> O'Donnell certainly isn't qualified to articulate Mormon beliefs. Huckabee, for political and (I believe) disingenuous reasons, has added fuel to the fire of the religious bigots. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 8:49 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The reason the Southern Baptist church came to be was because they were pro-slavery. Apparently this is not an issue with the bias media and others that attack Mitt Romney. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Lucifer created Satan</b> | 8:53 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> As a clarification, God didn't create Satan. God created Lucifer as one of his spirit children, and Lucifer was a righteous spirit child. Later, Lucifer created Satan via the exercise of his agency in choosing to fight God. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Michael R. Loveridge, J.D.</b> | 8:54 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> After watching O'Donnel's ranting on the McLaughlin Group (via YouTube), I think he seems like a rabid, mongrel stray who wandered into a classy, dogshow of purebreds. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>my2cents</b> | 8:58 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> One only attacks what they fear. <br><br>I guess Huckabee and O'Donnell fear the truth? <br><br>To Ernest. If Huckabee is the nominee, I will not hold my nose and vote for him. Nor will I vote for a democrat. I'll sit it out. With either choice, I would have someone in the white house who does not hold my personal values. If Harry Reid was running, I would not vote for him either. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Phoenix</b> | 8:59 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To Peanut: Romney did not attack Huckabee in his ads in Iowa. If you listen to the ads, Romney is simply showing the difference between him and Huckabee. The ad said "Mitt Romney stood up, and vetoed in-state tuition for illegal aliens, opposed driver's licenses for illegals, Mike Huckabee? Supported in-state tuition benefits for illegal immigrants. Huckabee even supported taxpayer-funded college scholarships for illegal aliens." Romney was simply trying to show the difference between the two of them. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Barbara</b> | 9:03 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mike Huckabee is insincere at best if he is pretending like he wants to know the answer the question he is asking. As an ordained minister, I'm pretty sure he already believes what he believes and nothing Mitt Romney says will change his mind. He is just putting it out there to be inflammatory. And by the way, negative press releases by the Democratic party have not picked up for Huckabee since he became the frontrunner. In fact they haven't said anything bad about him since March. They want him to win the nomination because he is more beatable than Romney. There have been nearly 100 press releases negative to Romney vs. 4 to Huckabee. I think Romney will be a serious contender if he gets the party nomination, and everything else is just meant to detract from his obvious qualifications. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>noregrets</b> | 9:06 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> If Lawrence O'Donnell, Huckabee and others keep this up Huckabee will become HUCK-A-BEEN. A hypocritical bigoted attitude is far from what this country needs now. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Why attacks from Democrats</b> | 9:14 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Because Romney will destroy any potential democrate who will square off against him. Just look how he pushed the line against demos favorite son in Mass. Mr. Kennedy, and that was done in a liberal state. Mitt can get the whole country behind him! Demo's lose! And they know it. Plus it's is a low as you can go to spread lies about a church. <br><br>RE: Mr T: Answer- NO! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Arizona</b> | 9:17 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> If the same comments were made about Islam that O'Donnell made about Mormons, there would be Hell (literally) to pay. Religious intolerance is perfectly acceptable if it's the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Otherwise, forget about it. Yet, strangely, you won't find, in general, a more peaceable, family oriented people. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>We're in Good Company</b> | 9:18 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> If we went back about 1800 years, and if TV had existed airing a program like "The McLaughlin Group", it is entirely possible one of the participants would have commented on a then-relatively new religion as "based on the work of a lying, fraudulant criminal named Jesus Christ".<br><br>Joseph Smith in 1820 said an angel advised that his name in years to come would be known worldwide "for good and for evil". That prediction has certainly come to pass. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>SFC RET DENNIS</b> | 9:26 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Get real people. The Gospel of Christ is perfect, we are not. I challenge anyone to name a religion that has never don't something wrong or rather made a bad chouse, look at the gospel. God is all about love and tolerance and going around blasting people cause of there fath or killing them in the name of religion or even slavery, sere the salve owners of the old south Baptist? <br><br>Remember we are spiritual beings on a human experience, not human beings on a spiritual experience.<br><br>What we need to do is stop all this hatred and attacks on other religions who don't believe the way we do. <br><br>I knew a black who was LDS, before he could have the Parenthood, he told be it does not matter cause he "KNEW" that someday God would grant him the Parenthood. Yet he was a very active member of the church. <br><br>ho, I am LDS, and a Democrat, however I vote for the most qualified person, I don't care what fath or party they belong to. I don't like Bush and I even despised Ragen. I'm not perfect but this is how I felt. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Wilkey</b> | 9:26 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> "Won't it be ironic when the wingnuts of the Republican party nominate Huckabee? I'll bet the Utah LDS will still vote for him because they believe the Republican party is the only true and living party on the face of the earth."<br><br>Indeed, that is the only positive result I can see in a Huckabee nomination - Utahns turning against him in droves because of his anti-Mormon comments. (FWIW, I think a Huckabee nomination won't happen, and if it does there WILL be a third party run by someone).<br><br>I am a conservative and a once strong but now disaffected Republican. But I truly believe the only way for Utahns to get decent representation is to show a willingness to vote for someone else. Politicians won't listen to you when you send them the message that you, as a voter, feel that you have no choice but to vote for them.<br><br>When Utah politicians get elected by 30-40% margins, that is the message we are sending. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>NotARacist</b> | 9:31 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To "To Racist": I am anything else but a racist. I don't understand why you called me that. I have friends from different backgrounds, one of my best friends ever being African-American. I think you owe me an apology. <br><br>I am sorry the ban on the priesthood offends you. It is offensive to me, too, and I am glad it's gone. I was born after 1978 though and I feel it's time to move on. The church does so many good things among different countries, without bigger media attention. They work with the Red Cross to eliminate the measles in Africa, to point out just one example. To me, that's not a racist church. (Sorry for my English, I am a foreigner myself). </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Correction</b> | 9:31 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It was 1823, not 1820. Still, for me personally, I'm kind of pleased to see the prophecy fulfilled.<br><br>Who could have rationally believed in the early 1800's that the name of Joseph Smith would be known and commented upon throughout the world. The fact it is happening today should be confirmation of the fact that he was indeed a prophet! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Huckster</b> | 9:34 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Jesus and Satan are brothers? Oh, I don't know that we teach that... </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>From Manti</b> | 9:37 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> There is no way on earth I'd ever vote for the Huckabee after his sly remarks about Moromons made yesterday. Whether he is truly a religious bigot or not I don't know. What I do know is that for his own political gain he made statements that encourage and downplay bigotry against over 6 million citizens of the country he would aspire to lead. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Zach</b> | 9:39 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why does the racist comment of Don Imus cause a firestorm of anger and calls for him to be banished from talk radio, while the attacks of O'Donnell cause no such response? What does this reveal about how the national media thinks? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Brad N</b> | 9:40 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Bigot: a person who is intolerant of any creed, belief, or race that is not his or her own. See also Lawrence O'Donnell.<br><br>I suggest writing to Steve Capus, President of NBC News, 30 Rockefeller Plaza, New York, NY 10112, asking that Mr. O'Donnell by publicly censure or fired.<br><br>Words such as "lying", "fraudulent", "criminal", and "ridiculous" certainly evidence bigotry on Mr. O'Donnell's part. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Hey Huck</b> | 9:44 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why do claim to know almost nothing about mormons but you spoke at an anti-mormon rally in Salt Lake in 1998. Do you remember that speech? Don't you remember the crowd of 20,000 you tried to work up in a frenzy to convert...Mormons?! You are a liar Huck and have been exposed. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>David</b> | 9:46 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I, myself am Mormon, and I find Mr. Huckabee's comments to be those of someone who is ignorant, and uninformed. I strongly feel that if he's going to ridicule a religion, then he should strongly research that faith before he starts shooting it down. As it now stands, If Mr. Huckabee is the Republican nominee, there is no chance on this God's green earth that I will vote for him. One of the earlier comments stated that "Mormons are the least racist" religion is absolutely true. We are very accepting. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 9:47 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee cant even honor freedom of religon. What makes you think he can even lead this country. It will be a big mistake to put him in office. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Blacks in the LDS church</b> | 9:47 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To argue the points made by O'Donnell about racism: Blacks were never disallowed from worshipping or being members of the LDS church. They couldn't hold the priesthood for many years, but they were always accepted and embraced in LDS congregations. Many other churches disallowed blacks completely for decades. <br><br>Besides, I don't know a single member of the LDS faith who was not overcome with joy when the news came out in 1978 that blacks could hold the priesthood. It was not a matter of racism. The LDS church is a worldwide religion and does not discriminate anybody...like some religious bigots discriminate. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Josh</b> | 9:49 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Calling all Mormons...you need to face the truth. There are many, many areas of church doctrine that could be considered somewhat "shady." For years, the LDS church has tried to sweep them under the rug to avoid criticism.<br>On the Brothers question, LDS doctrine states, that in the council in heaven, TWO of God's children (they would be brothers) presented a plan for salvation. Satan and Jesus. God chose the plan of Jesus, Satan revolted and was banished from the presence of God. <br>Also, there is no way possible to avoid the very plain and public fact that LDS church did not allow blacks to hold the priesthood. That is certainly discrimination. And the doctrine that blacks have been cursed with the mark of Cain...Mitt doesnt stand a chance at winning the African American vote.<br>None of this matters though, as Romney will not get the nomination, because he simply cant win the election. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Let the games begin</b> | 9:58 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Lots of hate there form O'Donnell and the evangelicals, its not over yet. this is their opportunity to Spew their Anti-Mormon hate and old repetitive already answered Anti-Mormon questions. <br><br>And they will play this to the end of they elections. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Rob</b> | 9:58 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> If Huckabee is elected President then what other religion or group of people would he attack? Can he handle the diversity of our beautiful country and be able to get along with others? In international affairs if he is attacking someones religious affilations and beliefs how will he treat leaders of other countries. Just think of how horrible this could turn out. Where is he going to draw the line? <br>With Huckabee's lack of respect for others would he lead the way in tearing our country apart? That is scary. I loved how Ronald Reagan pulled our country together. That is what we want for our country. We are a blessed Nation and I love America. We are all different but really the same. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Californian</b> | 10:03 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I'm a child of the 60s and I seem to recall a close advisor to Pres. John F. Kennedy named Lawrence O'Donnell. I wonder if this is the same person.<br><br>Thank goodness for the open-minded and unprejudiced attitude of most modern Americans that allowed a Catholic to go to the White House on his own merit. If this is the same O'Donnell, I'm sorry he isn't willing to offer the same tolerance to other religions. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Faith</b> | 10:18 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> My issue is whether or not one's religion will control their actions as president. I've found, as in all things, that their is good and bad in all. I am most curious as to the battle between Mormons and Evangelicals. We need to agree on common ground as the culture war is between secular progressives and Christians, not between God loving people. <br><br>I'd like to have Huck answer the questions about illegal aliens and his record on clemency....I appreciate his sensitivity to those who need God's help, but I'd like to know his reasons, not get tied up in a faith war which will do nothing to address my concerns about the future of this country.<br><br>Fact is, Mitt flip flopped on life, and evidently Huck has some inconsistencies as well. People can change and do, but I don't wish to elect another Bush who deceived us on borders, language, and culture..which is, in my view, THE issue.<br><br>Ron Paul looks better and better every day. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Only partly correct.</b> | 10:20 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> As a life-long active member of the LDS church I find O'Donnell's comments very interesting. Racist, the church may very well be--or at least formerly have been. Ridiculous, I would have to agree at least in part. But based on the work fradulent liar? Unfortunately for O'Donnell, he is going to have to account for that statement someday. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Josh</b> | 10:23 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To From Manti:<br><br>You just happen to be 6 million people whos votes really dont matter at all, when you look at the big picture. Better to win over the rest of the Christians in the country who far out-number the mormons. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Ginger Frelo-Hyde-Los Angeles</b> | 10:24 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I am an African American woman and a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for 27 years now. "We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where or what they may". (Articles of Faith:Verse 11) It is very narrow-minded of individuals to speak of things that they know nothing of. It would be of great worth for those people who are seeking the truth to speak with representatives from the Church (Missionaries) and then pray about what they hear. That is exactly what I did when it was presented to me that Blacks could not hold the Priesthood prior to 1978. And my prayer was answered. It didn't matter to me of what WAS, what is important is what IS.......All worthy men can hold the Priesthood and the only way for them to lose it is through their own doing! I am very blessed to be a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Annoyed Observer</b> | 10:26 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It's good to be anti Romney because his religion allegedly used to be "racist and pro-slavery.<br><br>It's also good to be anti American because it used to be racist (used to be?) and pro slavery."<br><br>Since there were some questionable things going on in the early mormon church, Romney is certainly an evil man.<br><br>Since there were some extremely questionable things going on in America's earlier history, all Americans certainly are evil people.<br><br>Give me a break. The sad thing is...some people believe all that bull I just posted above. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 10:27 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I was shocked to hear Mr. O'Donnell's hate filled rant regarding Mr .Romney and his religion. <br> His characterization of Mr. Romney and other members of this "ridiculous religion", as bigots suggests a bit of bigotry on his part. I suggest he interview a few Mormons regarding their views on racism. . One of the contributing factors to the Mormon exodus from Missouri and the killing of many innocent men, women and children, was due to the characterization by Southerners that the Mormons were anti-slavery.<br><br>If Lawrence O'Donnell had spoken in such terms about Catholicism, with it's inquisition, or Judaism, which restricted the priesthood to only one tribe of the house of Israel, or Muslims, who believe non adherents are "Infidels", or of even Southern Baptists, I believe that he would get a similar reaction to the one Mr. Imus received from his bigoted remarks. However it seems that it is open season on Mormons. <br><br>To characterize on national television, the founder of a religion as a liar, charlatan, and rapist, and to suggest that anyone who has faith in his religion in an idiot, displays a great deal of disrespect and perhaps even hatred for a group of people. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Wasting time</b> | 10:28 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why are any of us wasting all this good energy on an issue that won't really decide the nomination nor the election?<br><br>Mr. Romney is an incredible leader and will be attacked by the wingnuts forever.<br><br>Go to Ron Paul's website and suggest Dr. Paul recruit Romney as his VP / running mate. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Somewhere out here</b> | 10:39 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. So? Why the big deal about it? Is not the Father the Father of ALL spirits? He chose Jesus to be Savior from the beginnig and Lucifer took exception to that. So why is it hard to believe that?<br><br>Obama was born Muslim then converted (I guess) to Christianity. So do the Muslims still consider him a (unfaithful) Muslim?<br><br>And the Obama-Osama-Obama thing wasn't Rush Limbaugh, it was Ted Kennedy on the senate floor. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>O'Donnell</b> | 10:43 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Always learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the truth. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Sneaky Too</b> | 10:44 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The Huckster gives a speech to the Southern Baptist Convention in the Salt Palace just three days ago where they are giving out free copies of "Mormonism Unmasked" to the MSM and then quietly flys out of Salt Lake City. But he doesn't know much about Mormonism? What deceit! How dare this man delare to be "The Christian Leader." </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>me</b> | 10:48 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It is sad that the we "Mormons" are being persecuted again. I guess all those who are on the front lines of attack are afraid of the truth, or they would go to someone who would share the truth with them !! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 10:50 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> This circus-type atmosphere should show beyond a doubt the folly in blurring the lines between church and state. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Judged by your vote</b> | 11:05 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> You Mormons disappoint me. Our doctrine teaches that we will be judged according to our choices and actions. So why would you vote for the lesser of two evils rather than the right candidate. If it comes down to Clinton, Huckabee, and Ron Paul (Independent), I am voting for Ron Paul. I will never vote for the lesser of two evils, even if it means Hilary Clinton wins. My integrity and covenants are more important and I won't sell out!!! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Question their faith</b> | 11:10 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why not question their faith?<br><br>If we had questioned George Bush's supposed faith a little more after he claimed that Jesus was his "favorite philosopher," we might have realized that his willingness to follow Christ was skin deep, and he would much rather increase his wealth and power at the expense of our citizens, and the citizens of other countries.<br><br>If a candidate, like Huckabee or Romney (or Bush, for that matter) wants to drag religion into politics, they should be grilled about their beliefs. They should be grilled about what they mean by certain religious phrasing. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>MT in MD</b> | 11:12 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> How about if Huckabee gets the Republican nomination, every Utahn (who would have voted for Romney) writes in Mitt. That would be a hoot! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Brad Anderson</b> | 11:21 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Romney can't cry about it, he brought religion into it. He's the one that thinks secular humanists are so bad. If you want someone of Faith, stopping crying about it when your beliefes are questioned. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mark</b> | 11:22 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why are Utah Mormons so firmly married to the Republican party? Wake up! They don't share your values! The Republican party stands for the supremacy of wealthy, white, pseudo-christians. They have fooled much of the nation into believing that they are the Christian party. Think about it - would Jesus support aggression (rep) or self-defense (dem), charity for widows and children (dem) or charity for the wealthy (rep), peace talks (dem) or selling weapons to terrorists (rep)? <br><br>There are many things on both sides of the political aisle that should offend true Christians, but the Republican party has the lock on the majority, and the most heinous of those (torture, murder, war, profiteering, exploitation...). Do you really support a lying, murderous hypocrite that goes to church on Sunday over someone that really cares about the poor, children and peace but does not attend church? That is what the First Presidency is talking about when they say to vote for the candidate that supports your values! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Huckabee's Red Herring</b> | 11:26 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> What a great tactic from Huckabee. Here's a guy who is attacking at all angles. What a way to take away from the real issues: questioning a man's religion.<br><br>Romney shouldn't have to answer to any of these accusations of his faith. He isn't campaigning to be spokesperson for his religion. He's running for president. His beliefs are not on trial here.<br><br>On another note, I am not a Romney supporter. I now, however, am also not a Huckabee supporter. What a slime ball. This reminds me of the swift boat campaign against John Kerry - it stinks. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>mark bowman</b> | 11:29 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mitt is a good man, but I cannot support a Mormon for president. Mormons are Christians ONLY in a moral sense. Theologically, the doctrine is more similar to Hinduism. Give me a break, a "heavenly father" who is merely an exalted man? Who has parents and grandparents? This concept of a finite God changes everything. He is NOT the creator of all, he lives within the boundaries of time, space, matter. No wonder Christians do not accept Mormons as being the same family of faith. It is not! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re: mark bowman</b> | 11:37 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Since when do personal religious beliefs have anything to do with leading a country? Are you saying you wouldn't vote for a Hindi?<br><br>I hope the greater share of voters look at a person's qualifications, not their worshipping habits, as consideration for voting.<br><br>Also, I'm not a Mitt fan. But I disapprove of Romney because of his constant shifting of issues - a valid reason to reject a candidate. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>fr1nk</b> | 11:40 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> This is why RELIGION SHOULD BE LEFT OUT OF POLITICS! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Judy</b> | 11:42 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> This is addressed to all the comments that did not correct their spelling. Please check it before you push the send button. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Wow</b> | 11:44 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Which do we need? Reformation or Restoration??<br><br>After many, many years, Mormons are calling themselves, "Christians" !! <br>(always, denied it, before...why the change? )<br><br>and in some cases, Christians are calling Mormons, "Christians" !!!! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Huckabee Knows Better</b> | 11:48 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mike Huckabee can't play dumb or naive about his comments. Being a preacher I am sure he has delivered more than one "Mormons are Cult" sermon when he was a minister.<br><br>I am not big on either Romney or Huckabee but Huckabee is going for the cheap easy shot on Mormonism to get to Romney....and it will backfire on him in the long run.<br><br>The GOP will be fools to give Huckabee the bid because he will be easy pickings for the DNC and the left. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 11:48 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Uh-oh!<br>Judy's passing out failing grades.<br>Shame on we less-than-perfect ones. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Global Warming...</b> | 11:50 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The Mormons are to blame for this too because the have so many children who are heating up the planet.<br><br>I also heard that they caused the great depression in the thirties.<br><br>And someone told me the also prayed Hurricane Katrina into New Orleans so they could showcase their relief efforts to make people think the care about others.<br><br>Those shameful, shameful Mormons </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anon.</b> | 11:52 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It may astound some of you to find out that we do know the answers to every last one of these questions. Including why the blacks didn't receive the preisthood until 1978. If it bothers you so much, instead of protesting and whining about go research and ask about it. No of these questions go unanswered. <br>To Mark Bowman: If you don't think that the LDS church is not completely chirstian you need to research more thoroughly. Our whole faith is completely centered around Christ. There's so many more details to it then "God has grandparents" Maybe if you sat down with someone who knew what they were talking about you'd understand. But from what I see, there are too many people in this world today to even see past the end of their noses.<br>Is our religion rascist? No<br>Are we Christian? Yes </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Thamks Judie..</b> | 11:52 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Wi'll tri tu du beter </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>treatyman</b> | 11:56 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> what a great missionary opportunity to share with the world, our beliefs, in the homes and on the media, to doors were closed to missionaries. what would jesus do? i'm glad the church is not racist or racially biased against anyone. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re: mark bowman</b> | 11:56 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Give me a break? What church do you belong to? If you want to start taking on beliefs that seem ridiculous, how about this whopper that 95% of Christian churches subscribe to: <br><br>A loving, selfless person born in China in 1500 who never had the chance to accept Jesus Christ (because he was never taught the Gospel) is now burning in hell because he was never baptized. (By the way, he would be there with none other than Ghandi, Buddha, and any other great non-Christian who walked the earth).<br><br>Talk about ridiculous. If that's the "family" of Christianity you belong to, no thanks. (By the way, you should look up "Christian" in the dictionary, where there is actually an objective definition for determining who is Christian).<br><br>Do you believe that Mark? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Raymond Takashi Swenson</b> | 11:57 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Reveredn Huckabee was a Southern Baptist minister for over a decade. He has surely received and read the anti-Mormon propaganda that his church distributes. I am willing to bet that if some enterprising reporter were to talk to his parishioners, they would confirm that Huckabee had at some point preacvhed a sermon attacking Mormons. Since he is making an issue of being a Christian leader, why doesn't the Deseret News send someone to Arkansas and find out Huckabee's history as a (typically) anti-Mormon Southern Baptist preacher and get it out in the open. <br><br>I think a lot of Mormons (including me) would simply NOT vote for anyone for president rather than vote for someone who has labeled me and 6 million other Americans as second class citizens whose religion disqualifies us from being president, or any other public office. We already had one lying Southern Baptist in the White House this century, we don't need another one.<br><br>By the way, don't Southern Baptists believe that Christ MADE Satan as Satan? Doesn't that make Christ not only evil but a hypocrite as well? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mormon Republican</b> | 12:00 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> If Mike Huckabee is the republican nominee, I will vote for Barack Obama, or Hillary Clinton over him.<br><br>Yes, I know that those two are democrats, but Mike Huckabee's "willfull ignorance" demonstrates that he is a Bigot. The Republicans may have lost this voter. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Slugger</b> | 12:00 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee is ridiculous. Is this guy running for President or grand-standing to degrade the LDS Church? It seems he is using this stage to promote his anti-Mormon agenda. Is that the kind of person we want running this country? What character...TIC. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>To Mr. T:</b> | 12:01 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> No, that is false doctrine. It is not doctrine of the church that the reason people are born with darker skin is because of their lack of anything in the pre-existence. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re: Anon.</b> | 12:07 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It may surprise you that we do not know the answers to every question. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Satan is our brother.</b> | 12:10 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> You know, as well as I know (and the investigative public) that the 'church response' is deceptive. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Global Warming?</b> | 12:13 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> ARe you part of this planet? yes, many LDS families are large. Mine is a family of 9. We are not 'heating up the planet'. My heat in our home is up to a whopping 65 and 55 at night. We conserve and we don't like what Rev. Huckabee slid in. It was pretty clear what he meant. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re: Mark Bowman</b> | 12:17 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I doubted Jesus until He made Himself manifest to me, and thrust my own hand into His very wounds.<br>Then indeed I believed, and after that I was rid of my yesterday and the yesterdays of my forefathers.<br>The dead in me buried their dead; and the living shall live for the Anointed King, even for Him who was the Son of Man.<br>"Yesterday they told me that I must go and utter His name among the Persians and the Hindus.<br>I shall go. And from this day to my last day, at dawn and at eventide, I shall see my Lord rising in majesty and I shall hear Him speak"<br>(Even in his immortal resurrected body).<br>----Thomas -- from Jesus by Kahlil Gibran </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Me</b> | 12:22 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To Mark:<br><br>What about anti-life (abortion) (dem), gay marriage (dem). There are others.<br><br>If you really think the Democrats care about the poor and elderly, you are sadly mistaken. Very few politicians are in it to help the less fortunate. The vast majority of them are in it for the money (from PACs etc) and the power.<br><br>There are a few politicians that are truly trying to make a difference. When I find one I vote for them. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>steve nelson</b> | 12:22 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Can you imagine having the President of the United States with a name like "Huckabee". If Obama wins the nomination I will vote for him instead of<br>a bigot like Huckabee. If Clinton wins the nomination, which is most likely, I will probably not vote for the first time in my life. Where is this country headed?? Sad. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>The truth will set you free</b> | 12:23 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Joseph Smith loved the children of Cain. When a group of free blacks arrived in Navuoo there was a young girl without a family in the group. The young black girl was staying in Joseph and Emma's home and as the other members of her group made arrangements to travel up North she began to cry because she had no one to take her North at that point. <br><br>Joseph wiped her tears away and told her to stay with him and become his daughter. She later joined the church and traveled west to Utah when the saints were driven out of Nauvoo. <br><br>The truth will set you free. There have been many lies told of Joseph Smith. The same old ones get retold over and over again and people still believe them. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>GWB</b> | 12:27 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> One general question here for the attack Huckabee and O'Donnell crowd here.<br><br>In sacrament meeting on Fast Sundays I almost always hear in someones testimony, "I bear testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet and that the Church is the one true church" or some variation.<br><br>If I was a Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Muslim, or Jew how would I intepret that statement? Does that mean that my (coming from the point of view of the other person) religion is false? Doesn't that mean that Mormons view all non-mormons as worshipping a false god if theirs is the only true church?<br><br>Is it any wonder that they are offended and defensive? <br><br>The bible says (paraphrasing) what you sow, so shall you reap. In proclaiming to be the one true church is it any wonder that our LDS church is viewed as intolerant and is attacked?<br><br>Seems to me that all LDS people should gather together with other people to promote Religious tolerance so that people who are intolerant of other religions (heard the term Islamofacist lately) cannot come to power in this great Country where we used to count religious freedom as a virtue. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Bill Z</b> | 12:28 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> "because they believe the Republican party is the only true and living party on the face of the earth..."<br><br>Hey Ernie, did you know that President James E. Faust was a lifelong democrat? How about church presidents Heber J. Grant and Wilford Woodruff? Current senta majority leader Harry Reid? The list doesn't stop there, many prominent church members are and were democrats. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Arm of Orion</b> | 12:46 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> GWB I think you hit the nail on the head the problem is that we are looking at this from astonishingly different view points. On the one hand there is the LDS teaching that Hell does not last forever, but is still excruciatingly nasty if you don't accept Christ, but after your punishment you are accepted into a state of glory that, as Joseph Smith said paraphrased, that an man would kill himself to be even in the lowest degree. While the the opposite camps say that of you don't accept their God then you are cast into Hell with the Devil (to steal from Dante because I like the imagery) on his frozen throne watching and enjoying your torment while personally tormenting the great traitors. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 12:49 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The GOP is toast.<br>If they focus on truly believing in compassionate conservatism in a decade or so, they may have something to build upon other than trying to scare people into voting for them. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Lose/Lose for Mitt</b> | 12:50 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It srikes me as somewhat funny that this ignormaus O'Donnell said that Mitt missed his opportunity to distance himself from Mormonism. What would that show? That he is willing to cast aside a deep and personal belief to get elected to public office? And if he'd done that, then what? Wouldn't we belittle him for pandering to the populace by laying aside an association with a world-wide religion to become president? Seems to me anyone with an ounce of common sense would want a president who is firm on his convictions. Mitt's already been accused of being a flip-flopper. How would flip-flopping on religion help? <br><br>The saddest commentary is that we are even having this conversation. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Republican will vote for the Dem</b> | 12:53 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I will not support "the bigot Huckabee". I will vote for Hillary instead of Huckabee. At least she hasn't ever attacked mormons and their doctrine. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Typical</b> | 12:55 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Ask a question and your labeled "anti", attacked,andcritized. This website prove a great point based on the attacks on Huckabee the biggest enemy of the mormon church is its own beliefs and the greatest anit mormon material is its own writing, shame on you Huckabee bringing up mormon teahings..for shame for shame for shame...to quote gomer pyle </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Jon Shurtleff</b> | 12:57 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I'll make the same point I just made in another thread:<br><br>As a practicing Mormon, the pattern I see in these threads which is most disturbing is that the people who are most ignorant about our church, as evidenced by the misinformation which they cite, are the loudest, most intolerant, intrusive and ironically, often, seemingly, the most confident in their views ... but then isn't that pretty much the way it is in everything? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 12:57 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee's alma mater: Ouachita Baptist University. Mitt Romney's alma maters: BYU, HARVARD. Enough said. Huckabee = a mormon hater and a bigot. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>to Typical</b> | 12:59 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> do you really think that Huckabee was asking a question? He knew exactly what he was doing...appealing to people's prejudices. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re:The truth will set you free</b> | 12:59 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I have some ocean front property in Arizonia I'd like to sell you if you believe that story. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Wake Up!</b> | 1:03 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> As a non-republican Mormon. I cannot for the life of me understand why Utah Mormons buy into the republican propaganda machine! Demonize Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, John Kerry, Obama, etc. all you want...I'll just look at the fruits of their labors instead of the flattery words of their mouths. Turn off your AM radios long enough to find something out for YOURSELVES! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>re:Jon Shurtleff</b> | 1:08 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> yep and the most narrow minded are those who judge everyone else, don't you just hate those people who have a label for everyone that doesn't see things like we see them. Lets call everyone who doesn't understand us ignorant, intolerant intrusive and all those other good adjectives and we will prove we are the most loving church around. Take that you non mormon! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>re:Typical response</b> | 1:15 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Who made you judge? Romans 14 says your not but I'm sure BOM has corrected God's word by now how is it again we can judge a man's motives and call that loving, I forgot the verse in the BOM. Just suppose Huckabee ask an honest question why not just come out in the media and give an honest response...nah sling some mud make the fruit from the tree a little more distinguishable. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>wallyworld</b> | 1:16 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It seems to me that every "religion" has had some shady areas in their past. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>It's Our Own Fault Folks</b> | 1:19 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The LDS Church of today is VERY different than the Church under Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. Were we to go back in time and sit through one of Brigham Youngs conference talks we may wonder what Church they actually belonged to. The doctrines taught and the questionable (like it or not) historical events of the early Church are largely what you will find in most of the anti-mormon literature and speeches. And while much is taken out of context - much is unfortunately true. The problem is that since that time the Church has consistently covered up, whitewashed, denied, or kept this information locked away in their vaults. We proclaim to have the restored fullness of the gospel but would like much of the first hundred years or so of that fullness to just go away. Unfortunately it happened and many are using it now against us. Just because someone doesn't like us or posts information on a site not supportive of the Church does not necessarily make it false. Years of denials or FARMS-like explanations rather than honest, open conversations(by leaders)have brought us to this place. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Baptists have problems too</b> | 1:19 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I suppose everyone knows that the Southern Baptist Convention was created to give cover to wealthy plantation owners over slavery. The American Baptist Church wouldn't give missionary credentials to slave owners, and so the Southern Baptists separated themselves in order to gain "Christian" respectability. <br><br>Every religion has its strange issues. From the beginning of Christ's ministry until the beginning of the Fourth Century, Christianity was considered a cult by mainstream Judaism, and the Pagan Romans. If Jesus were to come again in our time he would probably be considered a cult leader, by mainstream Christians. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>To Josh</b> | 1:24 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Thanks for enlightening me on your very myopic view of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I feel so much more educated now. Next time think of something original that I haven't heard thousands of times before. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Question</b> | 1:26 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Having also been raise in Ogden, whats the big deal our churches here believe satan and Jesus are brothers, so those other churches disagree. Why are we not being honest and just say thats what the book of mormon teaches? So what if they differ, who said we have to call them ugly names if they struggle with mormonism, when has healthy discusion ever been our enemy? Wake up Utah we are sounding like all those we call anit and arguements that look, sound and sting like their comments </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Dane</b> | 1:27 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Lawrence O'Donnell has a history of overreacting and flat-out lying on the program. He's a fool if I've ever seen one. What's amazing to me is that someone running for President of the United States would criticize someone else's beliefs in a country of RELIGIOUS FREEDOM! Only the citizen's of this country would be stupid enough to vote him in. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>jfrazier</b> | 1:30 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Hey "Wake Up!",<br><br>And just how is that done? Nearly all the media is very slanted towards the left. I demonize these liberals because I believe the will take America in the wrong direction: towards socialism. I think our idealogical battle is more about liberal vs conservative that it is about Democrat vs Republican. The quandry that conservatives are in is that they really don't have a viable conservative candidate. Let's debate the "AM radio" talk for what it is: another source of information. I read a tremendous amount and don't find their rantings too far out of line with the truth, or the truth as I see it (yea, I know it is in the eye of the beholder). I can't see how a Mormon can be a liberal since such forced servitude (socialism) is contrary to any religion based on the teachings of Christ. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mormons for Huckabee</b> | 1:30 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mike Huckabee never "attacked" Romney's religion. He simply asked a question that was later taken out of context. <br><br>By the way - Mitt Romney doesn't represent this Church. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Romney and Huckabee are bigots</b> | 1:33 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> We, as Mormons, should never trust the religious right. Men like Romney are walking a dangerous line. His positions when he ran for Governor of Massachusetts was very much in line with what we believe but now that he is trying to gain the votes of the religious right he will place his eternal soul in danger of losing its faith and ceasing to trust in God and his prophets and instead will have to choose between the teachings of the gospel and of the prophets and those of the religious right. <br><br>My only advice to Romney is to turn to God in prayer and to walk the straight and narrow path. I greatly appreciated Romney's defense of our faith during his radio talk show interview with Mickelson but now he is turning his back on that defense in the hope of getting the religious right's vote. We should neve allow this to happen. My advice to O'Donnell and Huckabee who are clearly bigots is to stop being bigots and gain some knowledge. How many bigots must we put up with as Presidential candidates. We have the likes of Huckabee and Romney and their narrow-minded bigotry. Enough is enough already. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Sue</b> | 1:34 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I am a 29 yr convert to the LDS Church (brought up Episcopalian). It's sad to me that Huckabee and so many other evangelicals are so self-righeous, so unlike the Lord Himself. Let's take the Godhead for a moment. I would ask Huckabee and other so-called mainline Christians: Did Christ actually speak to Himself when He was on the cross and ask Himself, "Why has thou forsaken me?" Duh! I doubt they would have an answer to that just - as my sister who is an Evangelical Christian couldn't answer it. That's why the mainline Christians of the world are so wrong. Just because you don't believe the truth doesn't make it wrong!!! As for Huckabee, he's acts like a bigot just like many who think they are so righteous as they slam those who believe different than themselves. I would love to see Huckabee open his mind and heart to the LDS Missionaries and just listen. I doubt his pride would allow him to do that. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re:Baptists have problems too</b> | 1:35 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Good answer "Doesn't Mormonism teach Satan and Jesus were brothers"<br>Good answer "Those Southern Baptist were formed to promote and protect slavery"<br>I guess if we keep communicationg is way we will be like Cool hand luke, "what we have here boyz is a problm of mmunication" </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>to GWB</b> | 1:36 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Belonging to the only true church doesn't mean that others are not worshipping the true God. It only means that they don't belong to the only true church. If you don't belong to a church you believe is exclusively true, why bother? Doesn't the Bible say there is "one church and one baptism". Unlike other churches the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints teaches that all those belonging to other churches or no church will have the opportunity to accept it and receive the fullness of its blessings. That sounds neither racist or in any other way descriminatory. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mormons for Huckabee can vote fo</b> | 1:37 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mormons for Huckabee, Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee are narrow-minded bigots and shouldn't get a single Mormon's vote but sadly there are people like them in every religion so they will without question get their votes. We can only hope that the majority of Mormons will follow the scriptures and not follow men like Huckabee and Romney who would lead us down the path of apostasy.<br><br>So you can vote for Huckabee because it only shows that you are bigoted as he is. It is really sad when a member would vote for someone whose a bigot and whose narrow-minded but they do and it's even more sad when they vote for someone whose views on their own faith are bigoted. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Sue is the bigot</b> | 1:42 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Sue's comments demonstrate that even a Mormon can be a bigot. We may well have the truth but it isn't as obvious as she thinks it is and saying "Duh" in a sarcastate manner or telling people that their prides gets in the way of them not agreeing with her is morally represhensible. As a Mormon I want Huckabee and her sister to know that she doesn't represent all members and that there are good ones too who don't behave as she does. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Huckabee was right</b> | 1:43 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mormon has a chip on it's shoulder and its certainly is not love, it is Mormon teachings, doctrines history and their material. The problem is not that it keeps getting knock off but if they would look at it and discover it belongs to them but they won't even admit it but would rather fight. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Arm of Orion</b> | 1:48 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To all those defending the question you're right the words that Huck said aren't offensive however if you read what he said before it is a direct classless attack on the Mormon faith. Think when you read it makes life easier. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 1:55 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Even though there are some fine people who are mormon by and large the outside world finds the mormon culture way too weird (after you get to know them) </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Sue read the Bible</b> | 1:59 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The answer is in the Bible, wow how can you miss it from the seed, to the lamb, tothe example of the servant to the Son whole of the old Testament explained why He called out on the cross. That is Christianity 101, failure to understand what Jesus did on the cross or why He said that is major and has eternal consequences. A Christian who can't explain it may not be a Christian at all Read Psalm 22, Isaiah 53, Gen 3:15, Gen. 21. If you don't understand why He cry out and use those very words you don't understand anything about the Bible I'm not being mean, but seriously concerned about the elementary truths about Christ. Please Study God's Word </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Reality</b> | 2:04 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Romney cannot and should not address the legitimate doctrinal and historical concerns many non-LDS have regarding the Church.<br><br>The Church has shown for years that they will not either.<br><br>Therefore the issues remain and as a result millions will remain skeptical of the Church and will not vote for Mitt.<br><br>End of story. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Bill</b> | 2:05 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee, like many Baptists, is an ignorant bigot. What's new? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 2:09 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The answers are not in the bible, book of mormon, or anywhere else outside of you.<br>The answers are inside but you have been beaten down since childhood to where you no longer trust yourself. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Huckabee</b> | 2:12 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Quit slinging dirt I mean doctrine you making folks look bad </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>The convertor</b> | 2:15 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The reason the church will not engage itself in debate over doctrine in my mind is due to the truth that most christians should agree with and that is that the spirit is what converts oneself and is what causes one to be devoted to his/her convictions. Debate usually leads to contention and greater confusion which is authored by the adversary himself. Therefore, the church does not hide what our religious doctrines are but we do not debate them because in the eternal scheme of things it doesn't have much weight to become involved in debate over doctrine. As a latter-day saint I believe what I do because of the spirit that has witnessed the truth to me and through the benefits I see in living the doctrine. The spirit converts, debates and bashes will never lead to anything useful. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 2:16 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> If the anwser is inside of us, then why is anyone complaining about the Colorado shootings, it just the answer inside of us. Thank you but I believe thats the problem not the answer. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Arm of Orion</b> | 2:18 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> anon 2:09 what are you saying here your inability to be specific astounds me. Are you bashing religion in general or just Mormons. Did you get this opinion entirely from your own school of thought or did some one "expose" it to you first. Just asking. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Slugger</b> | 2:25 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> So if Huckabee wins is he going to let the Baptist Church influence his presidential decisions? Am I going to be forced to leave the LDS church to become Baptist? Will the currency be changed to have the Nicene Creed imprinted on it? Will he ban Mormon humanitarian relief and order the extermination of all Mormons? Will he remove Harry Reid and Orrin Hatch from office? Will he seek to remove Steve Young's Super Bowl ring because he is Mormon? Seriously, for all the mud-slinging at Romney, who's to say Huckabee won't brig his own religious baggage? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 2:33 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Always those who like to criticize things they don't understand - anon 2:16, anon 2:18 (by the 2-minute difference, probably the same confused person. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>my two cents</b> | 2:33 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It is absurd to pass judgements onto an individual based on their church. Lets look at a couple of church doctrines that will make my case.<br><br>In 1994 Pope John Paul II formally declared that the Catholic Church does not have the power to ordain women. From this can we conclude that all Catholics are sexist? <br><br>Some baptisits sects, not all, believe that homosexuals and women should not be given the priesthood. Should we conculde that those who belong to those baptists sects ar all hate mongers? <br><br>In conclusion it would be inappropriate to pass judgment to people because of their church's doctrine. It is just plain wrong and in the english language we call that bigotry. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>To Reality</b> | 2:35 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The reality is that the LDS doctrines and teachings are very different from any other christian denomination. We have ALWAYS been proud of that uniqueness - the fact that we are the "one true Church". The entire premise of the first vision is built upon that fact. <br><br>I'm SICK of the modern day inability to be as proud of that as our brave ancestors. This age of PR in the Church is a JOKE. If you want to be considered just another christian church then go join one - Huckabee can give you some good referalls. But where in the name of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young has our ability to stand up and be proud of our "truthfullness" gone? We have the truth, all other religions may have some truth but they do not have all the truth as we know and have always taught. Now stop wincing over how that sounds and start proclaiming it!! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Slugger</b> | 2:37 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> all that because he asked a question, yep your right about baggage get some help about your fears! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>To reality</b> | 2:41 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Pride goeth before destruction...even if your unique </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>jfrazier</b> | 2:45 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Anonymous (seems to be quite a few of those),<br><br>I want to comment on your statement about "...the outside world finds the mormon culture way too weird..." Do you speak for the world? Where do you get your data? I have traveled through many parts of the world and by and large those I have encountered are very respectful and think highly of the religion IF they understand it correctly. I think the majority of the "weird" feelings are misconceptions. Take polygamy for example. Many in the "outside world" still think the religion promotes polygamy. Besides some finer points of the doctrine there really is not much to think is weird. No coffee...no alcohol...obeying the commandments...temple covenants... Okay, on second thought I guess I see why they think the religion is weird. As "the world" gets more secular, I suppose they would think it weird to adhere to such God-given ideas. Any adherent of Christ would be thought weird. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 2:49 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> In this ever-changing world there are two important things that we should keep in mind.<br><br>The first is self-examination. We should reexamine our own attitude towards others and constantly check ourselves to see whether we are practicing properly. Before pointing our finger at others we should point it towards ourselves. Really.<br><br>Second, we must be prepared to admit our faults<br>and stand corrected.<br>Otherwise you will have a society of Aryans. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Southern Baptists and Blacks</b> | 2:50 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To all those who consider Mitt Romney a racist due to his membership in the LDS church please note:<br><br>The formation of the Southern Baptist organization was over slavery. At the time, the Southern Baptists and most other Protestant churches taught that black skin was the "Mark of Cain". Blacks were banned from ordination to most Protestant clergies until the 1960s. It wasn't until 1996 that the Southern Baptist Convention formally addressed institutional racism and published a "Declaration of Repentance" regarding its previous practices. (Note: this was almost 20 years after the LDS Church changed its policy on Blacks and the Priesthood).<br><br>Most religions have past practices and beliefs which reflected the times. Most of the racist beliefs have been repudiated since then. Let's judge the candidates on their character and platforms and stop making religious belief a criteria for election. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 2:51 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Don't be perplexed by the "anonymous'" jfrazier.<br>There are those of us who would rather focus on the statement or posting rather than seeing our "name in lights" (if you know what I mean.) </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>jfrazier</b> | 2:52 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To reality 2:41,<br><br>You are referring to the wrong kind of pride. You are speaking to the pride of one thinking he or she better than another. "To Reality 2:35" was speaking to the less objectionable pride of standing up for what you believe because you believe it to be right. In effect, proud to state what you believe. THAT pride is not the one that leads to destruction, but rather one that is the responsibility of every disciple of Christ. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Huckabigot will lose!</b> | 2:54 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I will not vote republican if Mike Huckabigot is the candidate. I will not vote if it is between Hillary and Huckabigot, and if it is between Obama and Huckabigot, I will vote for Obama. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Dave</b> | 2:54 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Huckabee, by his small-minded focus on being the "Christian candidate", has proven his inability to unite this nation and, therefore, is not fit to be president. He will never get a vote from this Christian. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 3:03 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Watching this afternoon's debate I would have to say the GOP is toast.<br>I especially enjoyed Romney admitting global warming was real and we must do something about it.<br>This is the non-stop flip-flopping that is dooming the GOP and Romney. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>O'Donnell WORSE than Imus</b> | 3:15 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Lawrence O'Donnell is a religious bigot, whose facts fail him.<br><br>He said Joseph Smith was racist and pro-slavery. Smith ran for President on an anti-slavery platform - long before Lincoln's election.<br><br>Smith ordained African American men to the LDS Priesthood. (Not commonly known, but nevertheless, true.)<br><br>Jesus Christ descended from polygamists, Abraham and Jacob among them. Mohammed also descended from one of the same polygamists, Abraham.<br><br>He called Joseph Smith a criminal -- a man who was never convicted of any crime. He called him a rapist -- though there is no evidence he ever had sex outside of a marriage which both parties voluntarily entered.<br><br>People of African American descent have NEVER been denied membership in the LDS Church, though there was a time -- after Joseph Smith's death -- when men of African American descent were not ordained to the LDS Priesthood.<br><br>He called the LDS Church "demented." Imus was fired for less.<br><br>He said that "Romney believed when he was 30, that black people were inferior." Apparently O'Donnell failed to watch the speech upon which he was commenting, in which Romney referred to his father marching with Dr. Martin Luther King. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Baker Boy</b> | 3:17 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> So many of you are voting for Hilary. Isn't she the wife of the one who pointed his finger at me and chastised me for even thinking that he could be a low-life cheater, manipulating and maneuvering women using his power and position (they were at fault too)? And isn't she the one who called everyone names because we believed and were a party to a right-wing consiracy that lies and deceives about the doings of her innocent husband? And isn't she the one who knew the truth all along and lied to us about what she knew? Isn't she the one who blamed this 100% on Gennifer Flowers and Paula Jones and monica Lewinsky and that other lady friend? Isn't she the one who says, "it's a private matter" when a head of state is having affairs, even in public offices? Wow! You convinced me. She'll make a great president. It DOES depend on the meaning of 'IS'. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>RE: Southern Baptists and Blacks</b> | 3:22 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> interesting post. If you have some links, they'd be appreciated. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Jon B. Holbrook</b> | 3:29 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mike Huckabee is well on his way to destroying the Republican Coalition that Ronald Reagan built. Some Evangelical Christians believe that the Repulican Party is exclusively their party. After they get through attacking everbody in the Republican Party that doesn't pass their religious litmus test, it will indeed be their party exclusively, because nobody will want to associate with them, except their fellow-bigots. This will ensure a Democratic sweep in November, 2008. This will be Mike Huckabee's legacy. I guess that the Reverend Mike believes that it is better that Mitt Romney be defeated in the Republican Primaries than the Mormons enjoy their Constitutional rights as American citizens. Thank-You </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Racist churches</b> | 3:36 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Ok, let's talk about racist churches. During the 1600s and 1700s, the Christian churches of the South did not allow African slaves to receive the gospel. So I guess that makes Huckabee, Clinton, and any other candidate who is a member of those Southern Christian Churches racist. <br><br>I am not surprised by these comments about the LDS church. In fact, I was beginning to wonder why they hadn't come out sooner. <br><br>I just hope that all those who are criticizing the LDS church are perfect and have lived perfect clean lives. Remember the scripture, "Judge not, that ye be not judged." </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Bertram</b> | 3:54 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> AMERICA......Home of the Brave and the Land of the Free!<br><br>Is Bigotry and Racism the New America?<br><br>When is The Mayflower making it's Departure?<br><br>Can I book my Passge? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>re: jon b. holbrook</b> | 4:08 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Ronald Reagan?<br>Oh yeah, that was the Iran-Contra guy who with his GOP pal before him, Richard Nixon, ran the country into the ground.<br>Then after a few happy years with a surplus budget, the GOP is at it again, running the country into the ground. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 4:30 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> America was clipping along just fine ...<br>until the insane moment when civilians were nuked at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.<br><br>Until we rid our country of the screwy hyper-nationalistic and jingoistic elements, I am afraid our country will be in a free-fall with the powers that be making insane war profits. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>what happened to truth?</b> | 4:35 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Asking about belief is bigotry..wow the founder of what you call your religion said truth is liberating, "the truth shall set you free". Yet if the question is truth admit it and don't feel the world is picking on you for telling the truth. Is satan and Jesus brothers...acording moronism true...end of discussion. Is there any need of finding fault with every other religion because a man asked a question of what you say is true? Did Jesus die on the cross? Did He rise from the dead? Never mind I don't feel like getting gang up on by all mormons for ask what you believe just wish you could trust the leader who thought truth was a great liberator. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Huckabee Owes Romney</b> | 4:39 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Mitt Romney gave an inspiring speech that opened the door again for God and religion to openly play a prominent role in government and public life lead by a god-fearing president. The only problem is that most christians don't trust a Mormon to play that prominent role. Huckabee will be more than happy to fill that role and ride Romney's speech right into the republican nomination. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Dad</b> | 4:39 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Some days my kids fight and quarrel and are down right rude to each other. It drives me crazy and I wonder where I went wrong. I try to keep in mind that they have their agency and I have to let them grow and mature on their own. The older ones have turned out quite good, so I know there's hope.<br><br>I wonder what God, the Father of us all, thinks as he watches the political process. Hmmm.<br><br>I suppose we'll mature in time, but those that really believe that we are all Gods children should probably think carefully about how they treat each other - and the things they write and say. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>anonymous</b> | 4:47 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Civilians didn't nuke anyone, soldier under the authority of leader who are under the authority of God Romans 13 weilded the sword for a reason...get the history book back out and read about pearl harbor for your anlysis on clipping along. Look under the Arizona Memorial and see how we clipped along. Who ever we elect will weild the same sword and we hope he doesn't allow people to be murdered and teach us just to clip along! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re:Huckabee Owes Romney</b> | 4:52 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> How can Christians trust mormons ask a question they judge, call names declare motives and never answer a question they teach, how do you trust someone who won't answer a question? You have declared youself judge jury and god...oh yeah you believe that too you are on your way to godhood...Lord help us all if this is what it means! Why would mit waste his time running for president when he's in line for godhood </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Janet Finn</b> | 4:55 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why do people try to comment about something that they don't know anything about? They are not qualified to make comments with so little knowledge. <br>How can people think that The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-day Saints is not a Christian religion?<br>The Church is a church based on love NOT prejudice.<br>Mitt must be very clean when the only criticism they seem to find is with his GREAT GRANDFATHER and his religion. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Ron</b> | 4:56 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> We all want intelligent, tolerant and upright political leaders. Huckabee is none of these. He is a self righteous, and ignorant bigot. If anyone wants the truth about the church, there are hundreds of missionaries ripe for the picking to talk to. There are thousands of LDS members to talk to. Why do we even think that we could trust a bigot that Huckabee has turned into. Just because he avows the fact to be an ordained Baptist minister doesn't mean that he can be trusted. It is obvious that he will say just about anything to get elected. He is a lying deceitful scoundrel. "By their fruits ye shall know them." Huckabee is not a good Christian. He does not know anything about being a true Christian.<br>All that Donnelly is, is someone who is ignorant and opens his mouth with lies. He ought to be fired. But then again, He works for NBC. One of the biggest of the MEDIA LIARS. The media can't be trusted!!! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Janet Finn</b> | 5:08 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> doesn't your bible say the heart is desperately wicked...there is none righteous no not one...we who were dead in trespassed in sin? and you say Mitt is a clean guy...so the bible lies and Mitt is a good guy? Who should we believe you or the word? Why does your church need a savior if the guy is clean and a good guy, Jesus didn't need to die for him? wow, what we learn from moronism...but that is not what everyone reads in the bible. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Wow Ron</b> | 5:12 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Ron, you just trashed Hackabee, Donnelley, and the media - all because you feel trashed yourself. When will this cycle ever stop? While Mitt's speech plead for tolerance, I'm afraid there will be less than ever between Mormon's and non-Mormon's once the dust from this presidential primary settles. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>re: ron</b> | 5:13 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why does the church need 1000s of misionaries if you know the answer just say so! Re read the article the question was not how many missionaries does it take to answer a doctrinal question, but does mormonism teach Jesus and Satan are brothers?<br>yes or no...wow tough question but with all the name calling by mormons it is the same reaon I don't want 1000 mormons at my door if I ask a question they cal you bigots ignorant, dummies unamerican and baptist. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 5:29 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Sorry anon 4:47.<br>But I must cop a conservative "won't budge on this"<br>plea when it comes to the murders of innocent women, children, eldery and all the other non-military at Nagasaki, and Hiroshima.<br>One can only hope that God will someday forgive the<br>administration and those who made the decision to nuke civilians in this the darkest hour of humanity. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Honest Question</b> | 5:57 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Could the Church every disavow comments made by past Prophets? There is no denying comments made in past general conferences such as dark skin being the result of choices made in the pre-existence or polygamy being an eternal principle part and parcel to the restored gospel. They, among other things, will always be attributed as a part of LDS doctrine no matter if we don't "practice" that way anymore or haven't publically made statements like that for years. Unless they are refuted, they are viewed by the Huckabees of the world as doctrine pronounced by LDS prophets and general authorities. Another example I have heard mentioned lately in the media is Joseph Smith's declaration that the Garden of Eden was actually in Missouri. I have heard members twist themselves into pretzels trying to explain that one. Can we ever disavow these types of pronouncements - without using the "he didn't say thus sayeth the Lord" garbage - and not potentially undermine everything else that Prophet may have said? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>LDS, Christian, Jew...? So what?</b> | 6:02 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Honestly, as an LDS, Utah native, RM, etc.. I really don't care if the president believes in Jesus Christ or not, whether he's a Mormon, Jew, Christian or Catholic. All that matters, and all that should matter is what these candiates stand for, how they've proven themselves as political leaders in the past and what their stances are on the issues that really matter. Why should that matter? Some of the most respectable people I know aren't LDS or Christian or paticipate in any religous activity at all. Some of the most vile and rude people I've ever encountered profess to believe in Christ, etc. Why can't we just hear the issues and where everyone stands and leave it at that? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 6:20 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Ouch! But way to go LDS 6:02!<br>See if you can knock some sense into your brothers and sisters that are so filled with hate they sound like Rush Limbaugh!<br>You are definitely one of the good guys! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>O'Donnel is off-base</b> | 6:47 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> ---nationally syndicated talk show broadcast locally on KUED Channel 7, panelist Lawrence O'Donnell called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "racist" and "ridiculous" and said the faith is "based on the work of a lying, fraudulent, criminal named Joseph Smith ... ."---<br><br>I've known several Mormons for over 30 years, and I've never thought of them as "ridiculous". </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Kay</b> | 6:47 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> We should recommend to anyone wondering about Mormon doctrine that they pursue their questions at mormon.org. It is a trend in the US at this time that people prefer doing research and searching for answers in the privacy of their own homes, on their own time, on the internet. <br><br>Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can greatly increase their own knowledge of the gospel by using the book PREACH MY GOSPEL (used by all full-time missionaries) in their own study time.<br><br>Ignorance of truth is not an excuse to abuse others. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Mitt's easy out -</b> | 7:03 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I think Romney should have just looked at Huckabee and said "yes".<br><br>Think about the power of a simple truthful answer. What's Huckabee going to do then? Badger Romney? Not likely. Walk off a bit deflated? Probably.<br><br>The way to keep an issue alive is to avoid dealing with it - then it becomes drama. Lay it out in the open for all to see (most of America knows the answer to the question anyway) and it becomes a moot point. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Doug</b> | 7:05 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Something that bothers me about this article. . .Republicans have been bashing Mormonism for months, and no one says "so and so, a Republican, bashed the LDS beliefs." Some guy on a panel who used to advise a Demoncrat, does the same thing, and this writer repeats "Democrat bashes Mormonism" like a mantra. Seems like an agenda coming out. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>you guys are all lame</b> | 7:06 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> believe what you believe and let others believe what they want. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Is hatred a "Christian" precept</b> | 7:15 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Leave it to a former Baptist minister to be so bigoted. It is no wonder that he is. In the south there were weekly meetings in every Baptist church teaching anti-Mormon literature. Why, is that. They must feel they have a poor leg to stand on to put so much effort in destroying someone else's faith. The Baptists are akin to the Muslims with the hatred that they preach from their pulpit. I couldn't tell you the number of times when I was on my mission to the South that a person or a preacher wouldn't confidently question my salvation, saying I was going to Hell. Good thing that I believe that Christ is my judge because the Baptists in the South already have me condemned. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Pot calling the kettle black</b> | 7:38 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The KKK was born of the Southern Baptists. They would actually take collections in the churches in the south. Today, although black are allowed to be Baptist they have segregated churches. It would be rare to ever see them in the same congregation. So The Mormon church has institutionalized racism, give me a break. The only church that practices this is the so-called Christian churches in the South. You would never see this kind of racism from the LDS faith. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Do you really believe this?</b> | 7:44 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Anonymous | 6:24 a.m. Dec. 12, 2007 <br>There was not bashing on Huckabee's part. He asked a question about LDS believes and clearly stated he did not know much about the religion. Where is the bashing?<br><br>Huckabee has been very low key about his snide comments but he's had them. And if he doesn't know the answer to his question he didn't really deserve that degree in theology. The answer to that question would be Theology 101, not a graduate course. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Kate</b> | 8:10 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> No, Mr. T! Not all of it is the truth. Mormons do believe that Jesus and Satan are brothers but that is only because we know that God created all spirits and EVERYONE is brother and sister-- INCLUDING Satan and Jesus. <br>Mormons do not, do not believe that black people are black because they turned their backs on God in the pre-mortal life. I have no idea where they got that. And the church authorities did not suddenly allow blacks the priesthood because of new political changes and requirements in '78. It was inspired by God to let every man have the same rights. <br>Huckabee needs to get his facts straight before talking about things he knows nothing about. And how ridiculous it is to try and win an election by slandering an opponents religion. This election should absolutely based on anything but that. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>I'm for intelligent responses</b> | 8:13 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Man, this comment board is a waste of time. It is filled with only two ideas---in over 200 forms.<br><br>Either people are saying:<br><br>Darn the Mormon Church! I used to be a member (how true is this statement most of the time anyways?) or else I know everything about them. They are racists, morons, and ignorant fools, and anyone who opposes them is definitely right.<br><br>OR<br><br>I don't understand why people aren't jumping into the waters of baptism instead of criticizing a church they don't understand. Mitt Romney is the most perfect person, and I want to be just like him when I grow up. Anyone who opposes the Mormon Church is just a paramecium-brain.<br><br>Both groups are equally stupid and wrong. It seems every article featuring the word "Mormon" brings on this stupid debate where former Mormons and Mormon haters alike attack the church and everyone else starts bearing their testimonies over these comment boards. Stop it.<br><br>To the first group: Find something better to do. The LDS Church is the true church and no amount of whining about your own weaknesses with is it going to change that.<br><br>To the rest: Oppostion happens. Don't look stupid in-your-responses. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>ArizonaRanchWife</b> | 8:43 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> A little ways back there were comments from Barbara and from Zach, both of whom were right on point. I fully intend to do as someone suggested and write to the President of NBC News, asking that some action be taken against O'Donnell.<br><br>I'm sure Hillary will be the Democratic nominee, and if Huckabee is on the Republican side of the ledger, I plan to just hold my nose and vote for him. She is the worst thing that could possibly happen to our country, and is poised to lead us all to Hell. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Facts</b> | 8:56 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It is not "bashing" Joseph Smith to say he was a liar and fraudulent - it is documented that he was practicing polygamy and telling everyone, including his first wife, Emma, that he was NOT. He obtained financial gain from his participation in these deceptions (including a failed bank). And he was ultimately charged and found guilty of a number of criminal activities. These are true facts, not "biased and unfair attacks."<br><br>LDS people must stop burying their heads in the sand, covering their ears and getting angry when the truth about Joseph Smith is published. It only makes you look foolish. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Good Point</b> | 9:17 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To Southern Baptists and Blacks | 2:50 p.m.<br><br>You make an important point, but omit another one that is a classic error in reasoning by Mormons. If racism in the LDS church is wrong, then pointing out that there was racism in other religions does not make racism right. Moreover, because the LDS Church claims to be "the one true Church," such erroneous racism is even more intolerable. In short, all your argument does is confess that the LDS Church is just like most religions in having a racist past and is, therfore, like most religions in being not "true." OK. Point well made. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Think</b> | 9:24 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Here is an example of inconsistent reasoning: Mormon Republicans (e.g., Mitt Romney supporters) get all offended when Huckabee (or anyone else) "attacks" Mitt because of his beliefs.<br><br>But isn't it in virtue of your beliefs that you associate yourself with either the Republican or Democratic parties?<br><br>As such, WHENEVER you "bash" or "attack" someone because of their party (or religious) membership, you are GUILTY OF THE SAME THING!<br><br>Think. It will only hurt for a moment. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Chasar Lopez</b> | 9:31 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Where does Huckabee get the idea that he is the devils bigger brother? That is the funniest thing that I have ever heard. I believe this could only happen in the preexistence and before this life. Huckabee whacko! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Brooke</b> | 9:48 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> The word �Mormon� is a nick name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints which Mitt belongs to. How much more needs to be said about the belief in our Lord Jesus Christ? It�s in the name of our church. As a member of the church I have enjoyed the debate because most Americans are opened minded and may begin to learn something about the faith. LDS members believe we have a Father in Heaven-God we have a bother who died for us on this earth-Jesus Christ. We believe that a person needs to obey the laws of the land in which they live; we believe that men will be held accountable for their OWN sins not Adams transgressions. We believe in the Bible and most members have it with them each Sunday and read during the week for the Sunday School lesson. We believe that anyone can be with their families for ETERNITY, why have this earth together as family and then lose it when we die?<br>Google The 13 Articles of Faith and you will see what Mitt and all Mormons believe. <br>Thank you </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>jr</b> | 9:54 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> This whole dicussion just reflects the truth that organized religions can become the source of wars and strife. When the missionaries came into our home, the criticized other religions constantly to sell their religion so why "mormons" are getting upset that the table is turned amazes me. To each his own and not one man can judge anothers faith or beliefs. The missionaries used to point out the falts of the predominant church the Catholics, stating they had their own bible and because they had the statues etc (idols) they also mentioned the wealth of the Vatican City and the poverty of the faithful - well I don't see the difference of the Mormons having their own bible or their copy cat of the Vatican. Where is the difference of the Cathedrals vs the Temples that are being slapped up all over the valley. <br>Someone made a statement that just know your mormon neighbour, mmmmmm that is not the best way to learn about any religion especially here in UTAH. Just look at our legislative leaders and the relationship with those at the bottom of the hill and there is the reason not to vote for MITT -- </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Why Not?</b> | 9:57 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I have been in hundreds of Elder's quorum, High Priest Group, Sunday School, Gospel Doctrine, and other lessons and I GUARANTEE you that not all Mormons believe the same things - not even the 13 Articles of Faith are completely, thoroughly believed by everyone who attends (and that is only about half or less of members)!<br><br>So, if we as LDS cannot even say what "WE" believe, what is the big deal if those who are not members chime in with an opinion about what we believe?! In fact, their opinions may be the most reliable because we have the most reason to be biased about ourselves! Maybe the best way to find out if we are Christians is NOT to ask ourselves, but to ask non-members: "Am I a Christian?" If they say, "No", then we have some valuable information upon which we should act in haste (its called repentance). </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Ed Clinch</b> | 9:59 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Lawrence O'Donnell seems to be the bigot that he appears to abhor in others.<br><br>Funny how hypocrisy works.<br><br>I wish him well, considering he thinks that 6 million of us fellow patriotic Americans are so degraded by him publically. On TV.<br><br>I, for one, will not forget it. And who am I? Just a military Dad and father of three, and happily practicing Latter-day Saint.<br><br>Baptized 1978.<br><br>Great year.<br><br>Our church did make a good move that year. Priesthood for all. What does O'Donnell believe about Godly authority? Who possesses it? MSNBC?<br><br>Moving on... </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Why Not?</b> | 9:59 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Indeed, perhaps Mitt Romney's best response to Huckabee would have been to reply, "I apologize that I or anyone of my LDS associates have given you reason to believe we are not Christians. We will try to do better."<br><br>Now THAT response would be something to see! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Your Wrong Kate</b> | 10:18 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> There are dozens of statements by LDS prophets and general authorities stating that black skin is the result of poor decisions in the pre-existence. Not liking the sound of it does not make it go away. You won't find these quotes in your Sunday School or Relief Society manual but they were made - repeatedly. Too many Mormons know less about their own church history and doctrine than non-Mormons. You look foolish denying something that could be looked up and confirmed in 10 minutes. I've said it before but there has been enough whitewashing done by the Church to paint the Y a thousand times over. The varnished image of today does not make the warts of yesturday just go away. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>:-)</b> | 10:43 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> as tourists, just a few years ago, while in the "Bible belt" of the south we were amazed at how difficult it was to find a restuarant open on Sunday so that we could eat a meal. we laughed about how much easier it was in "Mormon Utah" to find a Sunday business open than it was in the south. Yup, those Mormon's are to blame for absolutely everything wrong. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>The Caravan Moves On</b> | 11:41 p.m. Dec. 12, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> OK, have to put in my 2 cents. Much to the shrieks of horror from our rabid liberal / Democrat brothers and sisters and many "traditional" Christians, I will say to my fellow Latter-day Saints: keep the faith. It should come as no surprise that as the work of the Lord moves forward that we and faithful Christians from ALL religious sects will come under attack. (tho I will admit that in my weaker, more impatient moments, I sometimes yearn to be a "destroying angel", but that would put me in the category of Jonah wanting to see the people of Ninevah destroyed). So Huckabee is trying to be sly by attacking Romney and the Church by supposedly "asking a question" about LDS doctrine. Let him. To paraphrase Brigham Young, "We could grow this church if only they (antagonists) would leave us alone. However, with their persecution we'll just grow it all the faster". Thx, Mike Huckabee. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>History of it all</b> | 5:38 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> It all boils down to this.<br><br>All religions groups have broken off of one of two churches.<br><br>Catholic or LDS.<br><br>Anyone who looks at the history of their church will see this.<br><br>There can only be one correct church. Christ himself said this. So either the Catholic church is correct or the LDS church is correct.<br><br>Now look at the fruits & do your homework. And here is a thing to try . . . drop to your knees & ask!<br><br>Now look at your own actions. Are you following in the foot steps of the Christ? By their works, you will know who is correct. <br><br>When someone attacks another religion, with the intend of causing harm. they are NOT following the example set by the master. If you are not following his example. Who's example are you following?<br><br>Think about it! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 6:14 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Much to the shrieks of horror from our rabid Rush Limbaugh/Republicans, Mr. Huckabee had brought to light one of the odd beliefs Mormons have that they themselves have been working so desperately to set themselves apart from mainstream Christianity.<br>Now that the beliefs are being exposed, they are freaking out. Why? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Double Standards</b> | 6:58 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> If two young Mormon men come to my house to ask me about my faith and tell me about theirs, they are "missionaries".<br><br>If I go to a Mormon and ask questions about their faith, and tell them about mine, I'm a "hater", "persecuting them", "bashing them", "attacking them", etc.<br><br>Sure keeps the dialogue going in ONLY one directions, doesn't it?<br><br>No wonder Christians and Mormons cannot agree on the meaning of the word "Christian". </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Lilleth</b> | 8:35 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> So ... let's speak the truth. How many of us haven't been taught from the beginning about how Jesus and Lucifer are brothers, and about the council in heaven, etc? Things are what they are. Why apologize for that? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 8:41 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> A thousand pardons "History of it all," but the LDS church was one of those that broke off from the original Christian church (Catholic). <br>The only other church that broke off from the original Mormon church is the LDS branch. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Three things</b> | 9:09 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I can't post the URL according to the guidelines, but this is what Elder Holland of the 12 Apostles said in an interview with PBS about the "doctrine" behind the priesthood ban:<br><br>"One clear-cut position is that the folklore must never be perpetuated. ... I have to concede to my earlier colleagues. ... They, I'm sure, in their own way, were doing the best they knew to give shape to [the policy], to give context for it, to give even history to it. All I can say is however well intended the explanations were, I think almost all of them were inadequate and/or wrong. ..."<br><br>Cain and Abel were also brothers.<br><br>Finally: "Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.<br><br>Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. " </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>grundle</b> | 9:16 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Re:Anonymous - <br><br>I know what you mean. I went to the LDS Church website and there on the front page was a link to their explanation of the Jesus/Lucifer thing. Shame on them for cowering away from that doctrine.<br><br>The whole discussion on this doctrinal issue is silly. The very culture of the LDS faith reflects our belief that all of us (lucifer included) are brothers and sisters. We even call each other "Brother" and "Sister". The LDS doctrine has clearly taught from the begining this relationship. One of the first gospel principles I learned was that Jesus Christ was my savior and the most preeminent amoung God's children and my brother. I was taught that we were all together in the pre-esistence (lucifer included). I was taught that lucifer fell from grace. As a missionary I taught this doctrine to non-members. As a primary teacher I taught these doctrines. If you asked any Mormon (there are always exceptions)about these beliefs they will reaffirm the doctrine.<br><br>I know that there are some fundamental differences between the LDS faith and other faiths, but to say that this is a doctrine that the church has somehow diminished or hidden is just silly. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 9:22 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> I spoke with some preachers/pastors about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) and what their (and their churches) views are concerning the LDS church. During their studies to become ministers in their various churches, they ALL learned about the LDS beliefs. They were taught how to combat it. I sat through a Sunday service while the pastor bashed Mormons and Jews. He never once said what they believe during the whole meeting. He was surprised to see me (a known Mormon) and my friend (with a Jewish name) that day. <br>Huckabee "knows" the answers to his questions. He also knows if he words things right he can produce, in some, the fear and hatred of all LSD members including Mitt.<br>It is too bad the nation will not be allowed all the debate/media time to discuss the real issues affecting our nation now and in the future.<br>I am interested in Mitt as a possible President because he is willing to stand with his religious beliefs even if that means he may not become the next President. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 9:34 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To: Anonymous | 8:41 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 <br>Please check your facts before you post. The LDS cannot be a "branch" of the LDS. More than one church has been established as a break off from the LSD chruch. The LDS church does not claim to be a "branch" off any church. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Is hatred a "Christian" precept</b> | 10:15 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> No its not the baptist who preach hate you need merely look in the mirror and you will find the culprit. Huckabee apologized for his statment taken out of context and Mitt forgave him why are all the mormons still seathing in anger, ugliness, hate and spitting contemptuous words didn't your leader Jesus say its better to pluck out your eye than to offend the least of the brothers? Or do you select only what you follow and as some do in listening to endless agruments? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>true</b> | 10:17 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> If baptist bash mormons as these mormons are bashing baptist neither have anything to offer the world their not the solution but a part of the problem,... put that than in your pipe and smoke it, or make up a sermon sounds like some in the room could use one. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>grundle</b> | 10:23 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> you call hin brother satan if you want to but others prefer the Lord's description: a liar, thief, murderer, the accusing one, deceiver, roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, and the old serpent. You call him what you may but don't critize others who don't hold your high view of satan and perfer to the biblical definition. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re :-)</b> | 10:31 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> you trip was not to the south, you need to get a gps system or get out of kansas by clicking your heels! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Ed Clinch</b> | 10:35 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Ed you needed not worry about the churches position on Jesus and satan you need the lesson on forgiveness as some more in this discussion. If it is foggy in the BOM try Matt 6. best of luck with getting past you unforgiveness! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Is hatred a "Christian" precept</b> | 10:45 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> This so called anit mormon material those baptist teach each week is called bible study, yep it is dangerous and if its anti anything you as well as all of us would do well to listen to it. and PS it doesn't say Jesus and satan were brothers Jesus is eternal and satan a created being meaning non eternal. As if you really even cared. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Re:Janet Finn</b> | 10:58 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> true, religion is all the same "man trying to get to god by his efforts"<br>Christianity is not a religion of man trying to get the God but God coming to man and giving a gift which is life eternal through His Son not man achieving but man believing. <br>True religion wants Gods acceptance.<br>Christianity is we are accepted and serve not as a means to God or get something from Him. Which of itself is self seeking and self serving, not trying to get out of hell free but wanting God. Relationship not a bunch of rules. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>confused?</b> | 11:06 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To anonymous 9:34 -<br>If the orginal Mormon church practiced polygamy and the LDS people today say they cannot, isn't that breaking off from the original? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Letter Re: L. O'Donnell</b> | 11:20 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Dear MSNBC:<br><br>I just read an interview of one of your commentators, Lawrence O'Donnell, in which he said referred to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and members of the church as: <br><br>"demented, scientology-like"<br><br>"lying"<br><br>"insane"<br><br>"criminal"<br><br>"extreme rapists of teenage children"<br><br>"completely political"<br><br>"a joke"<br><br>"racist"<br><br>And you continue your affiliation with this "gentleman"? For what reason? I would suggest you rethink this one.<br><br>Sincerely,<br><br>A Voter </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>grundle</b> | 11:38 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> re: grundle - <br><br>My kinship to someone does not reflect my character or theirs. Yes...I believe that Satan is a liar, thief, murderer, the accusing one, deceiver, roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, and the old serpent.<br><br>He is also a creation of God and my brother. My kinship does not denote my acceptance. <br><br>Nice try but still silly. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>re re grundle-</b> | 1:14 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Then why didn't Romney just say yep and I'm kin to Satan also as does the rest of the mormon church. Christian don't believe that or that doctrine, call them what you may it has never been apart of christian theology, christian teaching, or any teaching in Chrystom. But thank you for being more honest than Mitt! </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 1:36 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> confused? | 11:06 a.m. Dec. 13, 2007 <br>Read our Articles of Faith. We believe in obeying the law.<br>Some others wanted to continue polygamy and started their own churches. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Explain</b> | 1:54 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> all this black talk what is the position on mormons how the black folk got their color and when did they let them into the priesthood? any mormons out there? </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 2:23 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> Why should I read your "Articles of Faith"? I, (like some of your own who have left the flock) believe Joseph Smith was a liar and a fraud. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>historicity</b> | 3:11 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> No, Anonymous 1:36.<br>The original Mormon church practiced polygamy.<br>Everyone knows this.<br>And the reason somebody later on had "a revelation about polygamy" is because Utah could not be part of the U.S. if they continued practicing that sleazy way of life.<br>So ... they broke away from the word of Joseph Smith who told everyone God commanded men to have multiple wives. End result - new church. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>galvtsi</b> | 6:13 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> O'donnell referred to his ancestors having more than one wife. If he wants to condem for what the fathers did, then I condem him for his fathers almost accomplishing genicide on the Native American when his fathers wanted to steal their land. </div> </div> <div class="comment"> <div class="commentName"> <b>Anonymous</b> | 12:38 a.m. Dec. 14, 2007 </div> <div class="commentText"> To: historicity | 3:11 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007 <br>The Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints is not a reorganized church. A new revelation does not equal a new church.<br><br>To: Anonymous | 2:23 p.m. Dec. 13, 2007 <br>Someone questioned what we believe, the Articles of Faith explain it. I see you lack desire to understand and accept others. I lack desire to cast my "pearls before swine".<br><br>May God bless you with all you stand in need of this day and always. </div> </div> <div id="commentForm"> <div class="label"> <h3>Add your comment</h3> <p class="infoText"> <b>Comments are monitored</b>. 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