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data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.pin">move to sidebar</button> <button class="vector-pinnable-header-toggle-button vector-pinnable-header-unpin-button" data-event-name="pinnable-header.vector-toc.unpin">hide</button> </div> <ul class="vector-toc-contents" id="mw-panel-toc-list"> <li id="toc-mw-content-text" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1"> <a href="#" class="vector-toc-link"> <div class="vector-toc-text">(Top)</div> </a> </li> <li id="toc-"Sibyl"_and_"Cybele"" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#"Sibyl"_and_"Cybele""> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">1</span> <span>"Sibyl" and "Cybele"</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-"Sibyl"_and_"Cybele"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sibyl_Prophesy_and_Symbols" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sibyl_Prophesy_and_Symbols"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Sibyl Prophesy and Symbols</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Sibyl_Prophesy_and_Symbols-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sibylline_Books" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sibylline_Books"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Sibylline Books</span> </div> </a> <button aria-controls="toc-Sibylline_Books-sublist" class="cdx-button cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only vector-toc-toggle"> <span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-expand"></span> <span>Toggle Sibylline Books subsection</span> </button> <ul id="toc-Sibylline_Books-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> <li id="toc-Sibyls_and_symbols" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-2"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sibyls_and_symbols"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3.1</span> <span>Sibyls and symbols</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Sibyls_and_symbols-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Problems_with_this_entry" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Problems_with_this_entry"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Problems with this entry</span> </div> </a> <ul id="toc-Problems_with_this_entry-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Restoration of this cannibalized entry</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Confusion_removed" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Confusion_removed"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Confusion removed</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Confusion_removed-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>Delphic Sibyl is not the same as Pythia or Delphic Oracle</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>So, What is a Sibyl?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">5 comments</span> <ul id="toc-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Hellespont_v._Marpessus" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Hellespont_v._Marpessus"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Hellespont v. Marpessus</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Hellespont_v._Marpessus-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Adding_assertions" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Adding_assertions"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>Adding assertions</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Adding_assertions-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Sibyl & Alexander the Great</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>Capitalization: Sibyl vs. sibyl</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-External_links_modified" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#External_links_modified"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>External links modified</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-External_links_modified-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-External_links_modified_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#External_links_modified_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>External links modified</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-External_links_modified_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-No_definition" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#No_definition"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>No definition</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-No_definition-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" title="Table of Contents" > <input type="checkbox" id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox " aria-label="Toggle the table of contents" > <label id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-label" for="vector-page-titlebar-toc-checkbox" class="vector-dropdown-label cdx-button cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--weight-quiet cdx-button--icon-only " aria-hidden="true" ><span class="vector-icon mw-ui-icon-listBullet mw-ui-icon-wikimedia-listBullet"></span> <span class="vector-dropdown-label-text">Toggle the table of contents</span> </label> <div class="vector-dropdown-content"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc-unpinned-container" class="vector-unpinned-container"> </div> </div> </div> </nav> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Talk</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Sibyl</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang mw-portlet-lang-icon-only" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector-empty" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. 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.mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Gentileschi,_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Gentileschi%2C_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png/19px-Gentileschi%2C_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png" decoding="async" width="19" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Gentileschi%2C_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png/29px-Gentileschi%2C_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/29/Gentileschi%2C_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png/38px-Gentileschi%2C_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png 2x" data-file-width="50" data-file-height="65" /></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women%27s_History" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's History">Women's History</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-mid">Mid‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Gentileschi,_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Gentileschi%2C_Artemisia_-_Clio_-_1632_50px.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="65" class="mw-file-element" data-file-width="50" data-file-height="65" /></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r1266661725">.mw-parser-output .portalbox{padding:0;margin:0.5em 0;display:table;box-sizing:border-box;max-width:175px;list-style:none}.mw-parser-output .portalborder{border:1px solid var(--border-color-base,#a2a9b1);padding:0.1em;background:var(--background-color-neutral-subtle,#f8f9fa)}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-entry{display:table-row;font-size:85%;line-height:110%;height:1.9em;font-style:italic;font-weight:bold}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-image{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em;vertical-align:middle;text-align:center}.mw-parser-output .portalbox-link{display:table-cell;padding:0.2em 0.2em 0.2em 0.3em;vertical-align:middle}@media(min-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .portalleft{margin:0.5em 1em 0.5em 0}.mw-parser-output .portalright{clear:right;float:right;margin:0.5em 0 0.5em 1em}}</style><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/P_history.svg/31px-P_history.svg.png" decoding="async" width="31" height="28" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/P_history.svg/47px-P_history.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/P_history.svg/62px-P_history.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="400" data-file-height="360" /></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:History" title="Portal:History">History portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women%27s_History" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's History">WikiProject Women's History</a></b>, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of <a href="/wiki/Women%27s_history" title="Women's history">Women's history</a> and related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Women%27s_History" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women's History">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Women's History</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's History</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Women's History</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Women's History</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-mid"><a href="/wiki/Category:Mid-importance_Women%27s_History_articles" title="Category:Mid-importance Women's History articles">Mid</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>Mid-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Women%27s_History/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Women's History/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475" /><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071" /><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Draig.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/35px-Draig.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="23" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/53px-Draig.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/70px-Draig.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="713" data-file-height="475" /></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Mythology" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Mythology">Mythology</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-high">High‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Draig.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/80px-Draig.svg.png" decoding="async" width="80" height="53" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/120px-Draig.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/160px-Draig.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="713" data-file-height="475" /></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text"><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1266661725" /><ul role="navigation" aria-label="Portals" class="noprint portalbox portalborder portalright"> <li class="portalbox-entry"><span class="portalbox-image"><span class="noviewer" typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/32px-Draig.svg.png" decoding="async" width="32" height="21" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/48px-Draig.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Draig.svg/64px-Draig.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="713" data-file-height="475" /></span></span></span><span class="portalbox-link"><a href="/wiki/Portal:Mythology" class="mw-redirect" title="Portal:Mythology">Mythology portal</a></span></li></ul>This article is supported by <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Mythology" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Mythology">WikiProject Mythology</a></b>. This project provides a central approach to <b><a href="/wiki/Mythology" class="mw-redirect" title="Mythology">Mythology</a></b>-related subjects on Wikipedia. Please participate by editing <a href="/wiki/Sibyl" title="Sibyl">the article</a>, and help us <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Mythology/Assessment" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Mythology/Assessment">assess and improve</a> articles to <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_is_a_good_article" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:What is a good article">good</a> and <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team" title="Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team">1.0</a> standards, or visit the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Mythology" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Mythology">WikiProject page</a> for more details.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Mythology</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Mythology</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Mythology</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">Mythology</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess import-high"><a href="/wiki/Category:High-importance_Mythology_articles" title="Category:High-importance Mythology articles">High</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>High-importance</b> on the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Mythology/Assessment#Importance_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Mythology/Assessment">project's importance scale</a>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1237879475" /><link rel="mw-deduplicated-inline-style" href="mw-data:TemplateStyles:r1259570071" /><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pillar_ionic.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Pillar_ionic.svg/25px-Pillar_ionic.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Pillar_ionic.svg/38px-Pillar_ionic.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Pillar_ionic.svg/50px-Pillar_ionic.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="60" data-file-height="60" /></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Classical_Greece_and_Rome" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome">Classical Greece and Rome</a> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles import-mid">Mid‑importance</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Pillar_ionic.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Pillar_ionic.svg/40px-Pillar_ionic.svg.png" decoding="async" width="40" height="40" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Pillar_ionic.svg/60px-Pillar_ionic.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Pillar_ionic.svg/80px-Pillar_ionic.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="60" data-file-height="60" /></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Classical_Greece_and_Rome" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome">WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome</a></b>, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Classical_Greece_and_Rome" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome">project page</a>. 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Introduced into Greece from Asia Minor it was previously CYBELE and prior to that Cybebe, with the C pronounced as a "K". The "Y" is pronounced "OO" as it also should be when pronouncing Cyrus "KOUROS". CYBEBE ------> Koo BIBI Kooh BIBI Lady of the mountain. (Kooh = Mountain, Bibi = Lady, Old old Persian, Iranian, the root of most present Indo European languages.) </p><p>We have in Iran many Ladies of the mountain, converted by some ruse into shrines of prominent Moslem ladies of the holy line of the prophet. One of the most famous being at Ghom (= Cumae??) </p> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Sibyl" title="Sibyl">Sibyl</a> and <a href="/wiki/Cybele" title="Cybele">Cybele</a> <i>Kybele</i> are not connected etymologically or any other direct way. Cybele was indeed introduced from Asia Minor as our Iranian correspondent says, specifically from <a href="/wiki/Phrygia" title="Phrygia">Phrygia</a> and <a href="/wiki/Cilicia" title="Cilicia">Cilicia</a>. The location of <a href="/wiki/Cumae" title="Cumae">Cumae</a> is well attested: not actually the same as Ghom. Your remark that is really <i>most</i> interesting is "We have in Iran many Ladies of the mountain, converted by some ruse into shrines of prominent Moslem ladies of the holy line of the prophet." That is what has happened in the Christian landscape too, though it takes a sophisticated culture to admit it dispassionately and to look into how it came about. The dogmatic elements in Islam and Christianity both forbid such inquiries. (The Lady of the Mountain is an Ancient Near Eastern figure who appears on Minoan seal-impressions.)--<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> 16:32, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p><b>Sibyl and Cybele Kybele are not connected etymologically or any other direct way.</b>Is this really true they sound so similar,there must be some very ancient relationship? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/58.178.68.92" title="Special:Contributions/58.178.68.92">58.178.68.92</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:58.178.68.92&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:58.178.68.92 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-58.178.68.92-2008-10-14T02:48:00.000Z-"Sibyl"_and_"Cybele"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:48, 14 October 2008 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-58.178.68.92-2008-10-14T02:48:00.000Z-"Sibyl"_and_"Cybele""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-58.178.68.92-2008-10-14T02:48:00.000Z-"Sibyl"_and_"Cybele""></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sibyl_Prophesy_and_Symbols" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sibyl_Prophesy_and_Symbols"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sibyl_Prophesy_and_Symbols"></span>Sibyl Prophesy and Symbols<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sibyl_Prophesy_and_Symbols"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Sibyl Prophesy and Symbols"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>This text, spuriously attributed to "the medieval monks" has been moved here. Knowing who has actually made this up, and when, might give it a place in this otherwise carefully nuanced article (<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a>): </p><p>"The mediaeval monks reckoned twelve Sibyls, and gave to each a separate prophecy and distinct emblem:- </p> <dl><dd>1) The Libyan Sibyl: <i>The day shall come when men shall see the King of all living things</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a lighted taper.</dd> <dd>2) The Samian Sibyl: <i>The Rich One shall be born of a pure virgin</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a rose.</dd> <dd>3) The Cumæn Sibyl: <i>Jesus Christ shall come from heaven, and live and reign in poverty on earth</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a crown.</dd> <dd>4) The Cumæan Sibyl: <i>God shall be born of a pure virgin, and hold converse with sinners</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a cradle.</dd> <dd>5) The Erythræan Sibyl: <i>Jesus Christ, Son of God, the Saviour</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a horn.</dd> <dd>6) The Persian Sibyl: <i>Satan shall be overcome by a true prophet</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a dragon under the Sibyl's feet, and a lantern.</dd> <dd>7) The Tiburtine Sibyl: <i>The Highest shall descend from heaven, and a virgin be shown in the valleys of the deserts</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a dove.</dd> <dd>8) The Delphic Sibyl: <i>The Prophet born of the virgin shall be crowned with thorns</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a crown of thorns.</dd> <dd>9) The Phrygian Sibyl: <i>Our Lord shall rise again</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a banner and a cross.</dd> <dd>10) The European Sibyl: <i>A virgin and her Son shall flee into Egypt</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a sword.</dd> <dd>11) The Agrippine Sibyl: <i>Jesus Christ shall be outraged and scourged</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a whip.</dd> <dd>12) The Hellespontic Sibyl: <i>Jesus Christ shall suffer shame upon the cross</i>. <b>Emblem</b>, a cross.</dd></dl> <dl><dd>In regard to the spurriously attributed text to the medieval monks, you can go to this web site <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/PhraseAndFable/data/1137.html">[1]</a> for the details as to where I got the information.</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>(Please sign, so we know who's saying what) Okay, that site is e-text of [<a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.bootlegbooks.com/Reference/PhraseAndFable/data/1137.html"><i>Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable</i></a>], 1897. Generally speaking, one wants to ask, every time one reads anything: Who is writing? When? What is their agenda? Who is their audience? This is a parlor book of quick and easy reference, for a middle-class late Victorian genteel reading audience. It gives a collection of hints that need to be followed up for specifics. Because "the monks said it" "it's in the Bible" or "I read in at the Library" aren't helpful to the reader. With the history of ideas, it's always clearer to work forwards, as ideas have developed and accumuklated, rather than backwards, trying to disentangle as you go. Medieval tradition multiplied the Sibyls to make them into the magical number 12, as an analog of the Apostles. This is a part of the idea of sibyls that the article hasn't touched yet. Let's not mix these "Gothic Sibyls" up with a) Greek Sibyls b) Roman Sibyls c) Early Christian Sibyls. Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel Sibyls are part of this later tradition.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Someone's recently added two external links to illustrations of these "Gothic" sibyls. One set are holding scrolls, I remember, perhaps with the same texts on them.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>So. Who is the Christian author who first attached a label and an emblem to each of these twelve "Gothic" sibyls? I don't know the answer, but that's the question. It's the connection of the Christian text to the pagan sibyls that's "spurious" from a neutral historical point-of-view— though reinterpreting texts to make them suit a Christian context goes back to the New Testament. And beyond. --<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> 16:32, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sibylline_Books" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sibylline_Books"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sibylline_Books"></span>Sibylline Books<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sibylline_Books"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Sibylline Books"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>I removed the text in the 3rd paragraph because most of it was repeated word for word in the <a href="/wiki/Sibylline_books" class="mw-redirect" title="Sibylline books">sibylline books</a> topic that are referenced. It seemed redundant to have it here and then have it repeated in the exacly in the linked topic. The remainder of the text is speaking of the birthplaces of up to 3 different sibyls and has nothing to do with the books and therefore I was going to move the text to the specific topics for the appropriate sibyl. Being redundant is perhaps okay, I don't see how having information in the wrong section is helpful to the reader. </p> <dl><dd>The question is, did this text offer relevant context for the Wikipedia reader? The same kind of information is repeated many times in various articles. Is the thought <i>complete</i> at each place, without the piece of text? Are <a href="/wiki/Sibyl" title="Sibyl">Sibyl</a>, <a href="/wiki/Sibylline_Books" title="Sibylline Books">Sibylline Books</a> and <a href="/wiki/Sibylline_Oracles" title="Sibylline Oracles">Sibylline Oracles</a> being kept clear and distinct? If so, then it's good. --<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> 16:32, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="Sibyls_and_symbols" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sibyls_and_symbols-Sibylline_Books"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sibyls_and_symbols-Sibylline_Books"></span>Sibyls and symbols<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sibyls_and_symbols-Sibylline_Books"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Sibyls and symbols"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>I found the following text at <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.goddess.org/vortices/notes/cybele.html">http://www.goddess.org/vortices/notes/cybele.html</a> </p><p>Marcus Terentius Varro, the Roman scholar and director of Caesar's library said there were eleven Sibyls, one each residing in the great centers of the world. In Persia she was Sibylla Persica, and was depicted as carrying a lantern and had a serpent under her feet; in Libya, Sibylla Libyea held a lighted torch; at Delphi, the Sibylla Delphica wore a crown of thorns; at Cumae, Sibylla Cumana had an stone manger; at Samos, Sibylla Cania bore a reed and a candle; the Sibylla Cimmeria carried a cross; Sibylla Erythreia held a white rose; on the Tibur, Sibylla Tibertina was dressed in animal skins and carried the fascista bundle of rods; at Marpessa, Sibylla Europa carried sword; on the Hellesport, Sibylla Hellespontina carried a flowering branch; Sibylla Phrygia carried a banner and prophesied resurrection. </p><p><br /> how do I decide if it's true and since we know Varro exist, who should get credit if the text is added? Varro or the website where this is found? </p> <dl><dd>Don't be confused by all the mumbo-jumbo "big connections" at that site, like identifyng <a href="/wiki/Eridu" title="Eridu">Eridu</a> with <a href="/wiki/Eridanos_(mythology)" class="mw-redirect" title="Eridanos (mythology)">Eridanos</a> and Cybele with Sibyls etc etc. Track one thought at a time. <a href="/wiki/Marcus_Terentius_Varro" title="Marcus Terentius Varro">Marcus Terentius Varro</a> (116 BC - 27 BC) you'll find at Wikipedia. Varro was a Roman historian who would not likely have given all these sibyls such <i>Christian</i> emblems, eh? So I'd Google "Varro sibyl" for a start... If you get back to Varro, quote him and cite the work you're quoting and give the website in brackets. Don't worry about exact form: get the three kinds of information in: who, in what title, and where available, and someone'll come along and fix it up! --<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> 16:32, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd>(Later): I've found an on-line translation of Lactantius' <i>Divine Institutions</i> Book I, chapter vi, where he quotes the lost books of Varro, and lists ten sibyls, site by site, with a few details about each: <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-07/anf07-04.htm#P192_35160">[2]</a>. Compare the Varro/Lactantius list with the "Gothic" Sibyls in the "monkish" quote above. --<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> 19:45, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Problems_with_this_entry" data-mw-thread-id="h-Problems_with_this_entry"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Problems_with_this_entry"></span>Problems with this entry<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Problems_with_this_entry"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Problems with this entry"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p>This entry is a fantastic blend of 19c. scholarship and modern religious fantasy. Although decked out with citations and other markers of reliability, it is almost completely disconnected from contemporary classical scholarship. I particularly resent that the "Delphic Oracle" is redirected here, and then completely mischaracterized. The writers' efforts to assert Delphi's connections with female divinities is remarkable; I <i>beg</i> you to find anything like this in a published, peer-reviewed book of the last 25 years! The entry also evinces a baldly POV attitude toward Christian authors, "reductionists," etc. </p><p>This is Wikipedia at its <i>worst</i>. It is junk. <a href="/wiki/User:Lectiodifficilior" title="User:Lectiodifficilior">Lectiodifficilior</a> 22:45, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Some of the recent struggles in this entry come from a confident editor who is working backward from the <a href="/wiki/Sistine_Chapel" title="Sistine Chapel">Sistine Chapel</a> Sibyls. Quite a hodgepodge. The Delphic Oracle was not characterized as a sibyl until the late Middle Ages, by Christians, sad to relate.... but even more interesting: what is the "modern' general text that <a href="/wiki/User:Lectiodifficilior" title="User:Lectiodifficilior">Lectiodifficilior</a> can recommend? --<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> 23:10, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>Burkert's <i>Greek Religion</i> is generally regarded as the most durable general work of the last 20 years. I'm actually developing a web directory on oracles (see my site on <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.isidore-of-seville.com/astdiv/">Ancient Divination and Astrology</a> for the sort of thing I do). See also <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://www.ancientlibrary.com/wcd/Category:Divination">here</a> (the references to 19c dictionaries at the top; even outdated scholarship would be better than this ignorant pagan promotion). <a href="/wiki/User:Lectiodifficilior" title="User:Lectiodifficilior">Lectiodifficilior</a> 23:20, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry" data-mw-thread-id="h-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry-2005-07-29T06:34:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry-2005-07-29T06:34:00.000Z"></span>Restoration of this cannibalized entry<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry-2005-07-29T06:34:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Restoration of this cannibalized entry"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wetman-2005-07-29T06:34:00.000Z-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry"></span>This is once more the trunk entry for sibyls. Individual sibyls are still at individual entries, ideally with more material than is once again here. A great deal remains to be done. --<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Wetman-2005-07-29T06:34:00.000Z-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:34, 29 July 2005 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wetman-2005-07-29T06:34:00.000Z-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wetman-2005-07-29T06:34:00.000Z-Restoration_of_this_cannibalized_entry"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Confusion_removed" data-mw-thread-id="h-Confusion_removed-2006-03-07T02:43:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Confusion_removed-2006-03-07T02:43:00.000Z"></span>Confusion removed<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Confusion_removed-2006-03-07T02:43:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: Confusion removed"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wetman-2006-03-07T02:43:00.000Z-Confusion_removed"></span>The figure of the ageless sibyl has been confused with the <a href="/wiki/Graeae" title="Graeae">Graeae</a> by an editor who claimed that "the mark of a Sibyl possessed with the <a href="/wiki/Second_sight" class="mw-redirect" title="Second sight">second sight</a> is the gift to be able to take her eyes out and then put them back in." Such crackerbarrel iconography is passed around and around in social groups who are deprived of libraries. The Internet is littered with such material. We shouldn't be adding to it. --<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Wetman-2006-03-07T02:43:00.000Z-Confusion_removed" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wetman-2006-03-07T02:43:00.000Z-Confusion_removed"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wetman-2006-03-07T02:43:00.000Z-Confusion_removed"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle" data-mw-thread-id="h-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle-2006-05-31T06:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle-2006-05-31T06:42:00.000Z"></span>Delphic Sibyl is not the same as <a href="/wiki/Pythia" title="Pythia">Pythia</a> or Delphic Oracle<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle-2006-05-31T06:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Delphic Sibyl is not the same as Pythia or Delphic Oracle"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Akhilleus-2006-05-31T06:42:00.000Z-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle"></span>The article now says this, but I'll repeat it on the talk page: the <a href="/wiki/Pythia" title="Pythia">Pythia</a> is an entirely separate figure from the <a href="/wiki/Delphic_Sibyl" title="Delphic Sibyl">Delphic Sibyl</a>, and Wikipedia should not confuse the two. Now it seems that in medieval times the two did get combined, and if that's the case it's an entirely appropriate matter for the <a href="/wiki/Sibyl" title="Sibyl">Sibyl</a> or <a href="/wiki/Delphic_Sibyl" title="Delphic Sibyl">Delphic Sibyl</a> articles to cover, but in doing so, it would be good to make it clear that the mixing of the two only happened long after the oracle ceased operating.<a href="/wiki/User:Akhilleus" title="User:Akhilleus">--Akhilleus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Akhilleus" title="User talk:Akhilleus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Akhilleus-2006-05-31T06:42:00.000Z-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:42, 31 May 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Akhilleus-2006-05-31T06:42:00.000Z-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Akhilleus-2006-05-31T06:42:00.000Z-Delphic_Sibyl_is_not_the_same_as_Pythia_or_Delphic_Oracle"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?" data-mw-thread-id="h-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?-2006-07-04T21:04:00.000Z"><span id="So.2C_What_is_a_Sibyl.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?-2006-07-04T21:04:00.000Z"></span>So, What is a Sibyl?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?-2006-07-04T21:04:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: So, What is a Sibyl?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Connection-2006-07-04T21:04:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"></span>Is it a Position (ministry), identifiable Person, an Oracle, a Lineage (Mistress/Dissiple), an Institution? </p><p>The striking example, the entry of Libyan Sibyl in the main article says she was presiding over the oracle at Siwa Oasis. This oracle is associated with Cambyses II, and with Alexander. About 2 centuries of time span. The same question applies to the Pythia entry above. </p><p>--<a href="/wiki/User:Connection" title="User:Connection">Connection</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Connection-2006-07-04T21:04:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Connection-2006-07-04T21:04:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Connection-2006-07-04T21:04:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Connection-2006-07-05T11:58:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"></span>Add to this, the <a href="/wiki/Cumaean_Sibyl" title="Cumaean Sibyl">Cumaean Sibyl</a> has various names "Amaltheia, Demophile, Deiphobe, Herophile, or Taraxandra. (In Virgil's Aeneid, she is called Deiphobe, daughter of Glaucus.)"--<a href="/wiki/User:Connection" title="User:Connection">Connection</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Connection-2006-07-05T11:58:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Connection-2006-07-05T11:58:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Connection-2006-07-05T11:58:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Codex_Sinaiticus-2006-07-05T14:38:00.000Z-Connection-2006-07-05T11:58:00.000Z"></span>It is fascinating to me. The "original" Sibyls were supposed in popular imagination to have lived for many centuries as prophetesses, but this supposed timeframe would have been long before Cambyses and Alexander at any rate. It is conceivable that it eventually did become more of an institution, with other prophetesses claiming to be "the Sibyl" and passing on the title to their disciples in some sort of lineage. <a href="/wiki/User:Codex_Sinaiticus" title="User:Codex Sinaiticus">ፈቃደ</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Codex_Sinaiticus" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Codex Sinaiticus">ውይይት</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Codex_Sinaiticus-2006-07-05T14:38:00.000Z-Connection-2006-07-05T11:58:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:38, 5 July 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Codex_Sinaiticus-2006-07-05T14:38:00.000Z-Connection-2006-07-05T11:58:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Codex_Sinaiticus-2006-07-05T14:38:00.000Z-Connection-2006-07-05T11:58:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Akhilleus-2006-07-05T15:50:00.000Z-Codex_Sinaiticus-2006-07-05T14:38:00.000Z"></span>I doubt that Sibyl-ship became institutionalized. They're legendary individuals whose prophecies circulated in written form. As far as I know, there's no source for a historical person calling herself a sibyl. The idea that the Libyan Sibyl presided over the oracle of Zeus Ammon probably got into Wikipedia as a result of confusion, similar to how Wikipedia long confused the Delphic Sibyl with the Pythia. <a href="/wiki/User:Akhilleus" title="User:Akhilleus">--Akhilleus</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Akhilleus" title="User talk:Akhilleus">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Akhilleus-2006-07-05T15:50:00.000Z-Codex_Sinaiticus-2006-07-05T14:38:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Akhilleus-2006-07-05T15:50:00.000Z-Codex_Sinaiticus-2006-07-05T14:38:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Akhilleus-2006-07-05T15:50:00.000Z-Codex_Sinaiticus-2006-07-05T14:38:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-114.121.207.60-2009-11-04T08:33:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"></span>Yes, I completely agree with the question. The introduction of this article is not so clear for those who have no idea what a sibyl is (like myself). What is a sibyl? Are they just any prophetess or a particular type of prophetess? What's the difference between a prophetess and a sibyl? Do they particularly prophesize a particular thing or general things? If there were a were a woman today in Japan prophesizing about the destruction of Japan would she be a sibyl? If they were only known through legends, then what kind of legends, European, Christian, Mediterranean? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/114.121.207.60" title="Special:Contributions/114.121.207.60">114.121.207.60</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:114.121.207.60&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:114.121.207.60 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-114.121.207.60-2009-11-04T08:33:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:33, 4 November 2009 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-114.121.207.60-2009-11-04T08:33:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-114.121.207.60-2009-11-04T08:33:00.000Z-So,_What_is_a_Sibyl?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Hellespont_v._Marpessus" data-mw-thread-id="h-Hellespont_v._Marpessus-2006-07-04T13:18:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Hellespont_v._Marpessus-2006-07-04T13:18:00.000Z"></span>Hellespont v. Marpessus<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Hellespont_v._Marpessus-2006-07-04T13:18:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: Hellespont v. Marpessus"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Connection-2006-07-04T13:18:00.000Z-Hellespont_v._Marpessus"></span>The Sibyl was located at Marpessus? (Not only born there). The name should be changed?--<a href="/wiki/User:Connection" title="User:Connection">Connection</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Connection-2006-07-04T13:18:00.000Z-Hellespont_v._Marpessus" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:18, 4 July 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Connection-2006-07-04T13:18:00.000Z-Hellespont_v._Marpessus"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Connection-2006-07-04T13:18:00.000Z-Hellespont_v._Marpessus"></span> </p> <dl><dd>No, the Hellespontine Sibyl is the more familiar term.</dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Adding_assertions" data-mw-thread-id="h-Adding_assertions-2010-05-20T20:08:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Adding_assertions-2010-05-20T20:08:00.000Z"></span>Adding assertions<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Adding_assertions-2010-05-20T20:08:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Adding assertions"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wetman-2010-05-20T20:08:00.000Z-Adding_assertions"></span>All assertions added to this article need to be attributed. Otherwise this article will be as full of blather as the individual articles on individual sibyls. Please don't cut 'n paste stuff from those articles to this one.--<a href="/wiki/User:Wetman" title="User:Wetman">Wetman</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Wetman" title="User talk:Wetman">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Wetman-2010-05-20T20:08:00.000Z-Adding_assertions" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wetman-2010-05-20T20:08:00.000Z-Adding_assertions"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wetman-2010-05-20T20:08:00.000Z-Adding_assertions"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great" data-mw-thread-id="h-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great-2013-02-03T09:39:00.000Z"><span id="Sibyl_.26_Alexander_the_Great"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great-2013-02-03T09:39:00.000Z"></span>Sibyl & Alexander the Great<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great-2013-02-03T09:39:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: Sibyl & Alexander the Great"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Coinmanj-2013-02-03T09:39:00.000Z-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great"></span>I haven't been able to find any references that discuss a sibyl foretelling anything about Alexander the Great. However, I have found 2 sources that indirectly connects the two. One says "Nicanor...wrote the deeds of Alexander the Great, is said to have reported a Persian sibyl." <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://books.google.com/books?id=M8s3cp97b-AC&pg=PA184">page 184</a> and "Nicanor...who wrote a history of Alexander the Great, speaks of one of these Persian Sibyls.." <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="http://books.google.com/books?id=QTQyx5a3_toC&pg=PA19">page 19</a> Perhaps a sibyl did not foresee Alexander but rather the mentioning of the two in the same sources have led to a misunderstanding? <a href="/wiki/User:Coinmanj" title="User:Coinmanj">Coinmanj</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Coinmanj" title="User talk:Coinmanj">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Coinmanj-2013-02-03T09:39:00.000Z-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:39, 3 February 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Coinmanj-2013-02-03T09:39:00.000Z-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Coinmanj-2013-02-03T09:39:00.000Z-Sibyl_&_Alexander_the_Great"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl" data-mw-thread-id="h-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl-2015-09-06T01:53:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl-2015-09-06T01:53:00.000Z"></span>Capitalization: Sibyl vs. sibyl<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl-2015-09-06T01:53:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Capitalization: Sibyl vs. sibyl"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-GoldCoastPrior-2015-09-06T01:53:00.000Z-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl"></span>The word "sibyl" is not a proper noun everywhere. It could be a title in some places (e.g., "Alexander the Great met the Persian Sibyl") but not in others (e.g., "Alexander the Great looked for a sibyl in Persia.") Compare "bishop" for a contemporary analogy. There's "the Bishop of Rome" and "a bishop in Rome." I am making edits to clarify based on this rule. --<a href="/wiki/User:GoldCoastPrior" title="User:GoldCoastPrior">GoldCoastPrior</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:GoldCoastPrior" title="User talk:GoldCoastPrior">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-GoldCoastPrior-2015-09-06T01:53:00.000Z-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:53, 6 September 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-GoldCoastPrior-2015-09-06T01:53:00.000Z-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-GoldCoastPrior-2015-09-06T01:53:00.000Z-Capitalization:_Sibyl_vs._sibyl"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified-2016-07-02T08:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified-2016-07-02T08:30:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified-2016-07-02T08:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cyberbot_II-2016-07-02T08:30:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, </p><p>I have just modified one external link on <a href="/wiki/Sibyl" title="Sibyl">Sibyl</a>. 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I made the following changes: </p> <ul><li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20050329184954/http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/english/courses/214/sibyls/sibyls.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/20050329184954/http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/english/courses/214/sibyls/sibyls.htm</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/english/courses/214/sibyls/sibyls.htm">http://www.lancs.ac.uk/depts/english/courses/214/sibyls/sibyls.htm</a></li></ul> <p>When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the <i>checked</i> parameter below to <b>true</b> or <b>failed</b> to let others know (documentation at <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Sourcecheck" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Sourcecheck">Sourcecheck</a>}}</code>). </p><p>This message was posted before February 2018. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_145#Disable_messages_left_by_InternetArchiveBot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145">After February 2018</a>, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by <b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b>. 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I made the following changes: </p> <ul><li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090213120221/http://www.umich.edu/~classics/directories/faculty.html">https://web.archive.org/web/20090213120221/http://www.umich.edu/~classics/directories/faculty.html</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.umich.edu/~classics/directories/faculty.html">http://www.umich.edu/~classics/directories/faculty.html</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://archive.is/19990209155138/http://plato.evansville.edu/public/burnet/ch3.htm">https://archive.is/19990209155138/http://plato.evansville.edu/public/burnet/ch3.htm</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://plato.evansville.edu/public/burnet/ch3.htm">http://plato.evansville.edu/public/burnet/ch3.htm</a></li></ul> <p>When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs. </p><p>This message was posted before February 2018. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_145#Disable_messages_left_by_InternetArchiveBot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145">After February 2018</a>, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by <b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b>. 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This message is updated dynamically through the template <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Source_check" title="Template:Source check">source check</a>}}</code> <small>(last update: 5 June 2024)</small>. </p> <ul><li>If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=reportfalsepositive">this tool</a>.</li> <li>If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=manageurlsingle">this tool</a>.</li></ul> <p>Cheers.—<a href="/wiki/User:InternetArchiveBot" title="User:InternetArchiveBot"><b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b></a> <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:InternetArchiveBot" title="User talk:InternetArchiveBot">Report bug</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-07T02:13:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-07T02:13:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-InternetArchiveBot-2017-12-07T02:13:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="No_definition" data-mw-thread-id="h-No_definition-20240116091700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-No_definition-20240116091700"></span>No definition<span data-mw-comment-end="h-No_definition-20240116091700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Sibyl&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: No definition"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hdela-20240116091700-No_definition"></span>The article gives no definition of an Sibyl. If you come here to understand what a sibyl is, you will not find that.The article immediately starts with an advanced discussion about etymology. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Hdela&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Hdela (page does not exist)">Hdela</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Hdela&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Hdela (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sibyl#c-Hdela-20240116091700-No_definition" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:17, 16 January 2024 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hdela-20240116091700-No_definition"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hdela-20240116091700-No_definition"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?useformat=desktop&type=1x1&usesul3=0" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; 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