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Template talk:Communist parties in the United States - Wikipedia

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If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Socialism" title="Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Socialism">the discussion</a> and see a list of open tasks.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Socialism</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Socialism</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Socialism</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">socialism articles</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{&quot;headingLevel&quot;:2,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;h-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;heading&quot;,&quot;level&quot;:0,&quot;id&quot;:&quot;h-Black_Panther_Party-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;replies&quot;:[&quot;c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z-Black_Panther_Party&quot;],&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Black Panther Party&quot;,&quot;linkableTitle&quot;:&quot;Black Panther Party&quot;}--><h2 id="Black_Panther_Party" data-mw-thread-id="h-Black_Panther_Party-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Black_Panther_Party-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z"></span>Black Panther Party<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Black_Panther_Party-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Communist_parties_in_the_United_States&amp;action=edit&amp;section=1" title="Edit section: Black Panther Party"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-Black_Panther_Party-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z-Black_Panther_Party"]}}--><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><!--__DTLATESTCOMMENTTHREAD__{"id":"c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z","timestamp":"2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z"}__--><!--__DTCOMMENTCOUNT__2__--><!--__DTAUTHORCOUNT__1__--></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{&quot;headingLevel&quot;:2,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;h-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;heading&quot;,&quot;level&quot;:0,&quot;id&quot;:&quot;h-Black_Panther_Party-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;replies&quot;:[&quot;c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z-Black_Panther_Party&quot;],&quot;text&quot;:&quot;Black Panther Party&quot;,&quot;linkableTitle&quot;:&quot;Black Panther Party&quot;}--></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z-Black_Panther_Party"></span>Although the <a href="/wiki/Black_Panther_Party" title="Black Panther Party">Black Panther Party</a> for Self-Defense had a period of convergence with the Communist Party, USA, exemplified by the United Front Against Fascism conference in Oakland in July 1969 and by the active role in both of <a href="/wiki/Angela_Davis" title="Angela Davis">Angela Davis</a>, I don't think that it can be considered a Communist party in the sense that most users of the template would have. Its ideology wasn't really that close to any form of classical <a href="/wiki/Marxism-Leninism" class="mw-redirect" title="Marxism-Leninism">Marxism-Leninism</a>. But I'm going here on memory of living in Berkeley and Oakland in the 1960's and 1970's, rather than having solid sources to back me up, so I'm ready to be persuaded by good reliable sources that say the BPP could indeed be Communist in some way that's different from dozens of other Black nationalist, New Leftist and Leftist organizations of the time. <a href="/wiki/User:Shakescene" title="User:Shakescene">—— Shakescene</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shakescene" title="User talk:Shakescene">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Communist_parties_in_the_United_States#c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z-Black_Panther_Party" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:00, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z-Black_Panther_Party"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z","author":"Shakescene","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z-Black_Panther_Party","replies":["c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z"],"displayName":"\u2014\u2014 Shakescene"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z-Black_Panther_Party"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z"></span>I think I now see where some of the confusion, both here and at <a href="/wiki/Black_Panther_Party" title="Black Panther Party">Black Panther Party</a> (where a change from "was" to "is" was recently reverted), may have come from. See <a href="/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party" title="New Black Panther Party">New Black Panther Party</a>, which most outside observers consider to be a new group rather than a direct descendant of the Black Panther Party of the 1960's. The Wikipedia article (no better of course than its sources and its editors) says that the New BPP doesn't really have a Marxist-Leninist ideology, since it considers Marx's analysis to derive from earlier African thought. Also note (as I did when trying to add <a href="/wiki/Communist_Labor_Party" class="mw-disambig" title="Communist Labor Party">Communist Labor Party</a>), that the template is for "current" Communist Parties. To the best of my imperfect understanding, the old <a href="/wiki/Black_Panther_Party" title="Black Panther Party">Black Panther Party</a> (which is what had been added to this template) isn't current; and the New BPP isn't Leninist. Needless to say, there's room for some sincere disagreement about those points. <a href="/wiki/User:Shakescene" title="User:Shakescene">—— Shakescene</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shakescene" title="User talk:Shakescene">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Communist_parties_in_the_United_States#c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:21, 30 July 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z","author":"Shakescene","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2014\u2014 Shakescene"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:21:00.000Z-Shakescene-2010-07-30T18:00:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{&quot;headingLevel&quot;:2,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;h-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;heading&quot;,&quot;level&quot;:0,&quot;id&quot;:&quot;h-International_Socialist_Organization?-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;replies&quot;:[&quot;c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?&quot;],&quot;text&quot;:&quot;International Socialist Organization?&quot;,&quot;linkableTitle&quot;:&quot;International Socialist Organization?&quot;}--><h2 id="International_Socialist_Organization?" data-mw-thread-id="h-International_Socialist_Organization?-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z"><span id="International_Socialist_Organization.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-International_Socialist_Organization?-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z"></span>International Socialist Organization?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-International_Socialist_Organization?-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Communist_parties_in_the_United_States&amp;action=edit&amp;section=2" title="Edit section: International Socialist Organization?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-International_Socialist_Organization?-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z","replies":["c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?"]}}--><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><!--__DTLATESTCOMMENTTHREAD__{"id":"c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?","timestamp":"2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z"}__--><!--__DTCOMMENTCOUNT__1__--><!--__DTAUTHORCOUNT__1__--></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{&quot;headingLevel&quot;:2,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;h-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;heading&quot;,&quot;level&quot;:0,&quot;id&quot;:&quot;h-International_Socialist_Organization?-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;replies&quot;:[&quot;c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?&quot;],&quot;text&quot;:&quot;International Socialist Organization?&quot;,&quot;linkableTitle&quot;:&quot;International Socialist Organization?&quot;}--></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?"></span>The <a href="/wiki/International_Socialist_Organization" title="International Socialist Organization">International Socialist Organization</a> is currently active and has a Leninist ideology. Should we add it to the template? <a href="/wiki/User:Shakescene" title="User:Shakescene">—— Shakescene</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Shakescene" title="User talk:Shakescene">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Communist_parties_in_the_United_States#c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:00, 31 August 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z","author":"Shakescene","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?","replies":[],"displayName":"\u2014\u2014 Shakescene"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Shakescene-2012-08-31T06:00:00.000Z-International_Socialist_Organization?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONDESKTOP__{&quot;headingLevel&quot;:2,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;h-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;heading&quot;,&quot;level&quot;:0,&quot;id&quot;:&quot;h-USMLO-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;replies&quot;:[&quot;c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO&quot;],&quot;text&quot;:&quot;USMLO&quot;,&quot;linkableTitle&quot;:&quot;USMLO&quot;}--><h2 id="USMLO" data-mw-thread-id="h-USMLO-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-USMLO-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z"></span>USMLO<span data-mw-comment-end="h-USMLO-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Communist_parties_in_the_United_States&amp;action=edit&amp;section=3" title="Edit section: USMLO"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"headingLevel":2,"name":"h-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z","type":"heading","level":0,"id":"h-USMLO-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z","replies":["c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO"]}}--><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><!--__DTLATESTCOMMENTTHREAD__{"id":"c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO","timestamp":"2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z"}__--><!--__DTCOMMENTCOUNT__1__--><!--__DTAUTHORCOUNT__1__--></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"><!--__DTSUBSCRIBEBUTTONMOBILE__{&quot;headingLevel&quot;:2,&quot;name&quot;:&quot;h-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;type&quot;:&quot;heading&quot;,&quot;level&quot;:0,&quot;id&quot;:&quot;h-USMLO-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z&quot;,&quot;replies&quot;:[&quot;c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO&quot;],&quot;text&quot;:&quot;USMLO&quot;,&quot;linkableTitle&quot;:&quot;USMLO&quot;}--></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO"></span>The U.S. Marxist–Leninist Organization included in the template hasn't had its own page for over a year at this point and only exists as a redirect to the organization it split from in the early-80s, which in turn hasn't existed since the early-90s. It seems like the group should be removed from the template, especially if we consider that there are other, more active groups which don't have pages and thus aren't listed in the template. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:Vithon" title="User:Vithon">Vithon</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Vithon#top" title="User talk:Vithon">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Vithon" title="Special:Contributions/Vithon">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Communist_parties_in_the_United_States#c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:42, 17 October 2020 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z","author":"Vithon","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Vithon-2020-10-17T18:42:00.000Z-USMLO"></span> </p> <!-- NewPP limit report Parsed by mw‐web.eqiad.main‐5dc468848‐492vw Cached time: 20241125065438 Cache expiry: 864000 Reduced expiry: true Complications: [vary‐revision‐sha1] DiscussionTools time usage: 0.012 seconds CPU time usage: 0.322 seconds Real time usage: 0.399 seconds Preprocessor visited node count: 7198/1000000 Post‐expand include size: 36946/2097152 bytes Template argument size: 6519/2097152 bytes Highest expansion depth: 11/100 Expensive parser function count: 18/500 Unstrip recursion depth: 0/20 Unstrip post‐expand size: 26159/5000000 bytes Lua time usage: 0.155/10.000 seconds Lua memory usage: 2547521/52428800 bytes Number of Wikibase entities loaded: 0/400 --> <!-- Transclusion expansion time report (%,ms,calls,template) 100.00% 343.593 1 -total 100.00% 343.593 1 Template:WikiProjectBannerShell 45.53% 156.435 1 Template:WikiProject_United_States 27.73% 95.294 1 Template:WikiProject_Politics 9.58% 32.930 1 Template:Flatlist 4.21% 14.476 91 Template:Ifexist_not_redirect 3.98% 13.679 1 Template:WikiProject_Socialism 1.60% 5.507 21 Template:Yesno 0.88% 3.007 2 Template:Nobreak 0.76% 2.619 3 Template:Para --> <!-- Saved in parser cache with key enwiki:pcache:idhash:25489577-0!canonical and timestamp 20241125065438 and revision id 984027690. 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