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Proposals for closing projects/Closure of brwikimedia - Meta

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class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-main">Proposals for closing projects/Closure of brwikimedia</span></h1> <div id="p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown mw-portlet mw-portlet-lang" > <input type="checkbox" id="p-lang-btn-checkbox" role="button" aria-haspopup="true" data-event-name="ui.dropdown-p-lang-btn" class="vector-dropdown-checkbox mw-interlanguage-selector" aria-label="This article exist only in this language. 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wiki</div> </div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">&lt; <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects" title="Proposals for closing projects">Proposals for closing projects</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><span data-mw-thread-id="h--2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h--2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span><span data-mw-comment-end="h--2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span></span><div class="boilerplate discussion-archived mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: #f5f3ef; overflow:auto; margin: 1em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #aaa"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-MF-Warburg-2014-02-14T16:49:00.000Z"></span>The following discussion is closed. <span style="color:#FF0000"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </i></dd></dl> <div style="border:1px solid silver; margin:.3em; padding:.5em .8em; background-color:#FFE4E1;"> <p><span style="font-size:110%;">This is a <a href="/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects" title="Proposals for closing projects">proposal for closing and/or deleting</a> a wiki hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation. It is subject to the current <a href="/wiki/Closing_projects_policy" title="Closing projects policy">closing projects policy</a>.</span> </p> <hr/> <p><span style="font-size:110%;">The proposal is <b>rejected</b> and the project will be kept open.</span> </p> <ul><li>A Language Committee member provided the following comment: <div style="margin-left:2em; font-style:italic;">I consider <a href="/wiki/Closing_projects_policy#Decision" title="Closing projects policy">this discussion harmful, with no reasonable possibility of a decision to close the wiki</a>. Obviously as long as Wikimedians in Brazil are organised in some form of entity and make use of the wiki for organising, there is no reason to close it. --<small><a href="/wiki/User:MF-Warburg" title="User:MF-Warburg">MF-W</a></small> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-MF-Warburg-2014-02-14T16:49:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:49, 14 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-MF-Warburg-2014-02-14T16:49:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-14T16:49:00.000Z","author":"MF-Warburg","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-MF-Warburg-2014-02-14T16:49:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"MF-W"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-MF-Warburg-2014-02-14T16:49:00.000Z"></span></div></li></ul> <hr/> <ul><li><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span>Type:</i> 2 (non-routine proposal)</li> <li><i>Proposed outcome:</i> close</li> <li><i>Proposed action regarding the content:</i> Import to Meta as required</li> <li><i>Notice on the project:</i> <a href="https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:%C3%81gora#Proposal_for_closing_wiki" class="extiw" title="wmbr:Wikimedia:Ágora">wmbr:Wikimedia:Ágora#Proposal for closing wiki</a></li> <li><i>Informed Group(s):</i> WMBR mailing list <a class="external autonumber" href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediabr-l/2014-February/015113.html">[1]</a></li></ul> </div> <p>The <a href="/wiki/Wikimedia_Community_User_Group_Brasil" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil">Wikimedia Community User Group Brasil</a> (ops, they said that, but they still using Wikimedia Brasil, so <a href="/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil_user_group" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikimedia Brasil user group">Wikimedia Brasil user group</a>) are using the name Wikimedia Brasil, and their tools as IRC, OTRS, and Wiki. But this is reserved to chapters, they had been notice about the name <a href="/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Brasil_user_group#Group_name" class="mw-redirect" title="Talk:Wikimedia Brasil user group">Talk:Wikimedia Brasil user group#Group_name</a>, but they still using the Wikimedia Brasil name, as you can see by the name of the page, and WMBR logos, wikis, mailing... as a chapter. The proposal of being a chapter suffered attacks by this group, and others, and now this is over, so this wiki need to be closed, and they can use the Meta as the others WUG. <small><a href="/wiki/User:R.T.Argenton" title="User:R.T.Argenton">Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton</a></small><sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:R.T.Argenton" title="User talk:R.T.Argenton"> m</a></sup> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:52, 13 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z","author":"R.T.Argenton","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z","replies":["c-This,_that_and_the_other-2014-02-13T07:23:00.000Z-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-This,_that_and_the_other-2014-02-13T07:23:00.000Z-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span>I boldly changed "Proposed action regarding the content" to "Import to Meta as required". I would imagine the Brazilian user group would want to bring some of their content here so they can keep editing it. If you don't agree, feel free to revert this. (As for the proposal itself, I am neutral. I do not feel I am able to make a proper comment.) <a href="/wiki/User:This,_that_and_the_other" title="User:This, that and the other">This, that and the other</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:This,_that_and_the_other" title="User talk:This, that and the other">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-This,_that_and_the_other-2014-02-13T07:23:00.000Z-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">07:23, 13 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-This,_that_and_the_other-2014-02-13T07:23:00.000Z-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-13T07:23:00.000Z","author":"This, that and the other","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-This,_that_and_the_other-2014-02-13T07:23:00.000Z-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-This,_that_and_the_other-2014-02-13T07:23:00.000Z-R.T.Argenton-2014-02-13T05:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <hr/> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span>My advice is to simply close this request without further discussion. </p><p>Argenton is upset because some volunteers are putting him in limbo due to his uncivil behaviour in some situations that resulted <a class="external text" href="https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Especial:Registo/block&amp;page=Usuário%28a%29%3ARodrigo+Tetsuo+Argenton">being blocked on pt.wikipedia</a> and resulted later in a <a href="https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:%C3%81gora/Acesso_ao_OTRS" class="extiw" title="wmbr:Wikimedia:Ágora/Acesso ao OTRS">process to replace him on OTRS queues</a>. Even with all this wikidrama he was still invited to <a href="/wiki/Brazil_Program/A%C3%A7%C3%A3o_Educativa/Encontro_%22Acesso_a_conhecimento,_educa%C3%A7%C3%A3o_e_direitos_humanos%22" title="Brazil Program/Ação Educativa/Encontro &quot;Acesso a conhecimento, educação e direitos humanos&quot;">give a speech in the last weekend event</a> about their still productive actions. </p><p>I'm personally astonished with all efforts from this user to disable ours OTRS queues and lock+del the <a href="https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/" class="extiw" title="wmbr:">WMBR:</a> wiki instead on focusing on his productive actions to show us that he is still interested to work with us. </p><p>As the most experienced volunteers should recall, volunteers from Brazil are since 2008 trying to form some kind of formal group for best free culture militancy without being able to maintain it for long time. The wiki has created during those attempts. Most pages cannot be changed to reflect the current stage of <i>user group</i> due to it's historical relevancy. Some can be changed, and Argenton is invited to help <b>in a civil manner</b>, instead of killing resources and time from the volunteers and paid staff from the (former) Brazil Catalyst Project to fight against him. </p><p>BTW I've changed <a href="https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wiki.png" class="extiw" title="wmbr:File:Wiki.png">WMBR:File:Wiki.png</a>, <a href="https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Pagetitle" class="extiw" title="wmbr:MediaWiki:Pagetitle">WMBR:MediaWiki:Pagetitle</a> and <a href="https://br.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Tagline" class="extiw" title="wmbr:MediaWiki:Tagline">WMBR:MediaWiki:Tagline</a> to reflect the current wiki usage. <a href="/wiki/User:555" title="User:555">Lugusto</a> • <a href="/wiki/User_talk:555" title="User talk:555">※</a> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 13 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","author":"555","type":"comment","level":1,"id":"c-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","replies":["c-Everton137-2014-02-13T17:03:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","c-Jonas_AGX-2014-02-13T19:50:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","c-Rodrigo_Padula-2014-02-13T22:33:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","c-Teles-2014-02-14T16:34:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","c-TeleComNasSprVen-2014-02-14T01:59:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"],"displayName":"Lugusto"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Everton137-2014-02-13T17:03:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span>I <b>Support</b> Lugusto idea. --<a href="/wiki/User:Everton137" title="User:Everton137">Tom</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Everton137" title="User talk:Everton137">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-Everton137-2014-02-13T17:03:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:03, 13 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Everton137-2014-02-13T17:03:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-13T17:03:00.000Z","author":"Everton137","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Everton137-2014-02-13T17:03:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","replies":[],"displayName":"Tom"}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Everton137-2014-02-13T17:03:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jonas_AGX-2014-02-13T19:50:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span>I <b>Support</b> Lugusto as well, that Wiki has historical content of Brazilian group/individual activities, efforts, discussions and is also a important bridge for newcomers. As Lugusto pointed: Argenton doesn't represent the intentions and actions of <a href="/wiki/Wikimedia_Brasil_user_group" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikimedia Brasil user group">Wikimedia Brasil user group</a>. Obrigado Lugusto for such changes you've made. --<a href="/wiki/User:Jonas_AGX" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Jonas AGX">Jonas AGX</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jonas_AGX" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Jonas AGX">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-Jonas_AGX-2014-02-13T19:50:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:50, 13 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jonas_AGX-2014-02-13T19:50:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-13T19:50:00.000Z","author":"Jonas AGX","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Jonas_AGX-2014-02-13T19:50:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jonas_AGX-2014-02-13T19:50:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Rodrigo_Padula-2014-02-13T22:33:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span>I <b>Support</b> Lugusto's idea. As informed and approved by Affcom <a href="/wiki/Wikimedia_User_Groups" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikimedia User Groups">here</a> the br.wikimedia.org was selected to be the "house" of the Brazilian user group. Since that proposal was evaluated and approved by Affcom, we can just close this request and change the logos/names previously used during the Chapter proposal to stay in line with the recommendations of the WMF and AffCom. <a href="/wiki/User:Rodrigo_Padula" title="User:Rodrigo Padula">Rodrigo Padula</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Rodrigo_Padula" title="User talk:Rodrigo Padula">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-Rodrigo_Padula-2014-02-13T22:33:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:33, 13 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Rodrigo_Padula-2014-02-13T22:33:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-13T22:33:00.000Z","author":"Rodrigo Padula","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Rodrigo_Padula-2014-02-13T22:33:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Rodrigo_Padula-2014-02-13T22:33:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Teles-2014-02-14T16:34:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span>What Lugusto said. The history of creation of this project is singular and it is being helpful to others that are actively using it to organize themselves. Closing it would just remove something that is being helpful, so I don't understand that as an advantage. Argenton himself used it for years and now that his behaviour is not being accepted anymore he is trying to make things difficult to the others in revenge and in a not so mature way. That's sad. So, let's move on and care for what will bring people more education. That is a waste of time.—<a href="/wiki/User:Teles" title="User:Teles">Teles</a> «<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Teles" title="User talk:Teles"><span style="text-shadow: 0.1em 0.1em 0.5em gray"><b>Talk to me</b></span></a> ˱<small><sub><a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Teles" title="Special:Contributions/Teles">C</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:Log/Teles" title="Special:Log/Teles">L</a> <a href="/wiki/Special:EmailUser/Teles" title="Special:EmailUser/Teles">@</a> <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Teles" class="extiw" title="sulutil:Teles">S</a></sub></small>˲» <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-Teles-2014-02-14T16:34:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 14 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Teles-2014-02-14T16:34:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-14T16:34:00.000Z","author":"Teles","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-Teles-2014-02-14T16:34:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Teles-2014-02-14T16:34:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TeleComNasSprVen-2014-02-14T01:59:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span>I would prefer that any decision for closing such a project be deferred to the <a href="/wiki/Affiliations_Committee" title="Affiliations Committee">Affiliations Committee</a> rather than the <a href="/wiki/Language_committee" title="Language committee">Language committee</a>. That being said, given the history of Wikimedia chapters as social online-gathering events for Wiki(p/m)edians in specific countries and regions to coordinate outreach efforts, it's highly unlikely this proposal for closure will succeed. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:TeleComNasSprVen&amp;action=edit&amp;redlink=1" class="new" title="User:TeleComNasSprVen (page does not exist)">TeleComNasSprVen</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:TeleComNasSprVen" title="User talk:TeleComNasSprVen">talk</a>) <a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_brwikimedia#c-TeleComNasSprVen-2014-02-14T01:59:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:59, 14 February 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TeleComNasSprVen-2014-02-14T01:59:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span><!--__DTELLIPSISBUTTON__{"threadItem":{"timestamp":"2014-02-14T01:59:00.000Z","author":"TeleComNasSprVen","type":"comment","level":2,"id":"c-TeleComNasSprVen-2014-02-14T01:59:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z","replies":[]}}--></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TeleComNasSprVen-2014-02-14T01:59:00.000Z-555-2014-02-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <hr/> <dl><dd><i>The above discussion is preserved as an archive. <span style="color:red"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> </i></dd></dl></div> <!-- NewPP limit report Parsed by mw‐web.eqiad.main‐85db4f49b5‐mm9xm Cached time: 20241114002433 Cache expiry: 2592000 Reduced expiry: false Complications: [] DiscussionTools time usage: 0.010 seconds CPU time usage: 0.055 seconds Real time usage: 0.073 seconds Preprocessor visited node count: 182/1000000 Post‐expand include size: 2766/2097152 bytes Template argument size: 955/2097152 bytes Highest expansion depth: 7/100 Expensive parser function count: 0/500 Unstrip recursion depth: 0/20 Unstrip post‐expand size: 0/5000000 bytes Lua time usage: 0.006/10.000 seconds Lua memory usage: 717428/52428800 bytes Number of Wikibase entities loaded: 0/400 --> <!-- Transclusion expansion time report (%,ms,calls,template) 100.00% 44.791 1 -total 64.00% 28.668 1 Template:Discussion_top 52.44% 23.488 4 Template:Langswitch 15.27% 6.840 1 Template:Discussion_bottom 13.15% 5.892 1 Template:Red 10.27% 4.598 3 Template:Support 9.51% 4.261 1 Template:Closing_project_proposal 2.75% 1.231 1 Template:LangSwitch --> <!-- Saved in parser cache with key metawiki:pcache:idhash:3700911-0!canonical and timestamp 20241114002433 and revision id 24928786. 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