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Cohort IDs can be collected over time to create cross-site tracking IDs · Issue #100 · WICG/floc · GitHub
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I don't think that's accurate. As far as I know, the user's cohort will not be partitioned per first party site so multiple sites can observe..."> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/opensearch.xml" title="GitHub"> <link rel="fluid-icon" href="https://github.com/fluidicon.png" title="GitHub"> <meta property="fb:app_id" content="1401488693436528"> <meta name="apple-itunes-app" content="app-id=1477376905, app-argument=https://github.com/_view_fragments/issues/show/WICG/floc/100/issue_layout" /> <meta name="twitter:image" content="https://opengraph.githubassets.com/80b12c3fa4993bd17e7d3177e6c9fabf5afce405c55b729082aa70416c477c7a/WICG/floc/issues/100" /><meta name="twitter:site" content="@github" /><meta name="twitter:card" content="summary_large_image" /><meta name="twitter:title" content="Cohort IDs can be collected over time to create cross-site tracking IDs · Issue #100 · WICG/floc" /><meta name="twitter:description" content="In https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/99, it is stated that &quot;FLoC is not useful for tracking.&quot; I don&#39;t think that&#39;s accurate. 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1-.355-.508h-.016.016Zm.641-2.935c.136 1.057.403 1.913.878 2.497.442.544 1.134.938 2.344.938 1.573 0 2.292-.337 2.657-.751.384-.435.558-1.15.558-2.361 0-1.14-.243-1.847-.705-2.319-.477-.488-1.319-.862-2.824-1.025-1.487-.161-2.192.138-2.533.529-.269.307-.437.808-.438 1.578v.021c0 .265.021.562.063.893Zm-1.626 0c.042-.331.063-.628.063-.894v-.02c-.001-.77-.169-1.271-.438-1.578-.341-.391-1.046-.69-2.533-.529-1.505.163-2.347.537-2.824 1.025-.462.472-.705 1.179-.705 2.319 0 1.211.175 1.926.558 2.361.365.414 1.084.751 2.657.751 1.21 0 1.902-.394 2.344-.938.475-.584.742-1.44.878-2.497Z"></path><path d="M14.5 14.25a1 1 0 0 1 1 1v2a1 1 0 0 1-2 0v-2a1 1 0 0 1 1-1Zm-5 0a1 1 0 0 1 1 1v2a1 1 0 0 1-2 0v-2a1 1 0 0 1 1-1Z"></path> </svg> <div> <div class="color-fg-default h4">GitHub Copilot</div> Write better code with AI </div> </a></li> <li> <a class="HeaderMenu-dropdown-link d-block no-underline position-relative py-2 Link--secondary d-flex flex-items-center Link--has-description pb-lg-3" 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class="HeaderMenu-link border-0 width-full width-lg-auto px-0 px-lg-2 py-lg-2 no-wrap d-flex flex-items-center flex-justify-between js-details-target" aria-expanded="false"> Resources <svg opacity="0.5" aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-chevron-down HeaderMenu-icon ml-1"> <path d="M12.78 5.22a.749.749 0 0 1 0 1.06l-4.25 4.25a.749.749 0 0 1-1.06 0L3.22 6.28a.749.749 0 1 1 1.06-1.06L8 8.939l3.72-3.719a.749.749 0 0 1 1.06 0Z"></path> </svg> </button> <div class="HeaderMenu-dropdown dropdown-menu rounded m-0 p-0 pt-2 pt-lg-4 position-relative position-lg-absolute left-0 left-lg-n3 pb-2 pb-lg-4 d-lg-flex flex-wrap dropdown-menu-wide"> <div class="HeaderMenu-column px-lg-4 border-lg-right mb-4 mb-lg-0 pr-lg-7"> <div class="border-bottom pb-3 pb-lg-0 border-lg-bottom-0"> <span class="d-block h4 color-fg-default my-1" id="resources-topics-heading">Topics</span> <ul class="list-style-none f5" 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class="HeaderMenu-dropdown dropdown-menu rounded m-0 p-0 pt-2 pt-lg-4 position-relative position-lg-absolute left-0 left-lg-n3 pb-2 pb-lg-4 px-lg-4"> <div class="HeaderMenu-column"> <div class="border-bottom pb-3 pb-lg-0 pb-lg-3 mb-3 mb-lg-0 mb-lg-3"> <ul class="list-style-none f5" > <li> <a class="HeaderMenu-dropdown-link d-block no-underline position-relative py-2 Link--secondary d-flex flex-items-center Link--has-description" data-analytics-event="{"location":"navbar","action":"github_sponsors","context":"open_source","tag":"link","label":"github_sponsors_link_open_source_navbar"}" href="/sponsors"> <div> <div class="color-fg-default h4">GitHub Sponsors</div> Fund open source developers </div> </a></li> </ul> </div> <div class="border-bottom pb-3 pb-lg-0 pb-lg-3 mb-3 mb-lg-0 mb-lg-3"> <ul class="list-style-none f5" > <li> <a class="HeaderMenu-dropdown-link d-block no-underline position-relative py-2 Link--secondary d-flex flex-items-center Link--has-description" 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--></option></form><form id="code-search-feedback-form" data-turbo="false" action="/search/feedback" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" data-csrf="true" name="authenticity_token" value="xTTbGak4xSoFDHkj2jRxhhPLvcIsYMdh4/kmAKrWnC+mpLPYs6GgrEk1BuSyukBo7CmMufb3l9Me0R/uYrEV9Q==" /> <p>We read every piece of feedback, and take your input very seriously.</p> <textarea name="feedback" class="form-control width-full mb-2" style="height: 120px" id="feedback"></textarea> <input name="include_email" id="include_email" aria-label="Include my email address so I can be contacted" class="form-control mr-2" type="checkbox"> <label for="include_email" style="font-weight: normal">Include my email address so I can be contacted</label> </form></div> </scrollable-region> <div data-view-component="true" class="Overlay-footer Overlay-footer--alignEnd"> <button data-close-dialog-id="feedback-dialog" type="button" data-view-component="true" class="btn"> Cancel </button> <button 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data-selected-links="security overview alerts policy token_scanning code_scanning /WICG/floc/security" data-pjax="#repo-content-pjax-container" data-turbo-frame="repo-content-turbo-frame" data-hotkey="g s" data-analytics-event="{"category":"Underline navbar","action":"Click tab","label":"Security","target":"UNDERLINE_NAV.TAB"}" data-view-component="true" class="UnderlineNav-item no-wrap js-responsive-underlinenav-item js-selected-navigation-item"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-shield UnderlineNav-octicon d-none d-sm-inline"> <path d="M7.467.133a1.748 1.748 0 0 1 1.066 0l5.25 1.68A1.75 1.75 0 0 1 15 3.48V7c0 1.566-.32 3.182-1.303 4.682-.983 1.498-2.585 2.813-5.032 3.855a1.697 1.697 0 0 1-1.33 0c-2.447-1.042-4.049-2.357-5.032-3.855C1.32 10.182 1 8.566 1 7V3.48a1.75 1.75 0 0 1 1.217-1.667Zm.61 1.429a.25.25 0 0 0-.153 0l-5.25 1.68a.25.25 0 0 0-.174.238V7c0 1.358.275 2.666 1.057 3.86.784 1.194 2.121 2.34 4.366 3.297a.196.196 0 0 0 .154 0c2.245-.956 3.582-2.104 4.366-3.298C13.225 9.666 13.5 8.36 13.5 7V3.48a.251.251 0 0 0-.174-.237l-5.25-1.68ZM8.75 4.75v3a.75.75 0 0 1-1.5 0v-3a.75.75 0 0 1 1.5 0ZM9 10.5a1 1 0 1 1-2 0 1 1 0 0 1 2 0Z"></path> </svg> <span data-content="Security">Security</span> <include-fragment src="/WICG/floc/security/overall-count" accept="text/fragment+html"></include-fragment> </a></li> <li data-view-component="true" class="d-inline-flex"> <a id="insights-tab" href="/WICG/floc/pulse" data-tab-item="i6insights-tab" data-selected-links="repo_graphs repo_contributors dependency_graph dependabot_updates pulse people community /WICG/floc/pulse" data-pjax="#repo-content-pjax-container" data-turbo-frame="repo-content-turbo-frame" data-analytics-event="{"category":"Underline navbar","action":"Click tab","label":"Insights","target":"UNDERLINE_NAV.TAB"}" data-view-component="true" class="UnderlineNav-item no-wrap js-responsive-underlinenav-item 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direction="vertical" mnemonics retain> <button id="action-menu-4bafe207-d87a-4ac3-8884-2778ed0fb636-button" popovertarget="action-menu-4bafe207-d87a-4ac3-8884-2778ed0fb636-overlay" aria-controls="action-menu-4bafe207-d87a-4ac3-8884-2778ed0fb636-list" aria-haspopup="true" aria-labelledby="tooltip-46e2d774-f9e7-4b29-ab51-99a29e997053" type="button" data-view-component="true" class="Button Button--iconOnly Button--secondary Button--medium UnderlineNav-item"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-kebab-horizontal Button-visual"> <path d="M8 9a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3ZM1.5 9a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Zm13 0a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Z"></path> </svg> </button><tool-tip id="tooltip-46e2d774-f9e7-4b29-ab51-99a29e997053" for="action-menu-4bafe207-d87a-4ac3-8884-2778ed0fb636-button" popover="manual" data-direction="s" data-type="label" data-view-component="true" class="sr-only position-absolute">Additional navigation options</tool-tip> <anchored-position id="action-menu-4bafe207-d87a-4ac3-8884-2778ed0fb636-overlay" anchor="action-menu-4bafe207-d87a-4ac3-8884-2778ed0fb636-button" align="start" side="outside-bottom" anchor-offset="normal" popover="auto" data-view-component="true"> <div data-view-component="true" class="Overlay Overlay--size-auto"> <div data-view-component="true" class="Overlay-body Overlay-body--paddingNone"> <action-list> <div data-view-component="true"> <ul aria-labelledby="action-menu-4bafe207-d87a-4ac3-8884-2778ed0fb636-button" id="action-menu-4bafe207-d87a-4ac3-8884-2778ed0fb636-list" role="menu" data-view-component="true" class="ActionListWrap--inset ActionListWrap"> <li hidden="hidden" data-menu-item="i0code-tab" data-targets="action-list.items" role="none" data-view-component="true" class="ActionListItem"> <a tabindex="-1" id="item-ff8fa503-62d3-43ad-a896-6912d1fbbc20" href="/WICG/floc" role="menuitem" data-view-component="true" class="ActionListContent ActionListContent--visual16"> <span class="ActionListItem-visual ActionListItem-visual--leading"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-code"> <path d="m11.28 3.22 4.25 4.25a.75.75 0 0 1 0 1.06l-4.25 4.25a.749.749 0 0 1-1.275-.326.749.749 0 0 1 .215-.734L13.94 8l-3.72-3.72a.749.749 0 0 1 .326-1.275.749.749 0 0 1 .734.215Zm-6.56 0a.751.751 0 0 1 1.042.018.751.751 0 0 1 .018 1.042L2.06 8l3.72 3.72a.749.749 0 0 1-.326 1.275.749.749 0 0 1-.734-.215L.47 8.53a.75.75 0 0 1 0-1.06Z"></path> </svg> </span> <span data-view-component="true" class="ActionListItem-label"> Code </span> </a> </li> <li hidden="hidden" data-menu-item="i1issues-tab" data-targets="action-list.items" role="none" data-view-component="true" class="ActionListItem"> <a tabindex="-1" id="item-e227d4eb-a5eb-4e81-83a7-20d744060bae" href="/WICG/floc/issues" role="menuitem" 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0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-table"> <path d="M0 1.75C0 .784.784 0 1.75 0h12.5C15.216 0 16 .784 16 1.75v12.5A1.75 1.75 0 0 1 14.25 16H1.75A1.75 1.75 0 0 1 0 14.25ZM6.5 6.5v8h7.75a.25.25 0 0 0 .25-.25V6.5Zm8-1.5V1.75a.25.25 0 0 0-.25-.25H6.5V5Zm-13 1.5v7.75c0 .138.112.25.25.25H5v-8ZM5 5V1.5H1.75a.25.25 0 0 0-.25.25V5Z"></path> </svg> </span> <span data-view-component="true" class="ActionListItem-label"> Projects </span> </a> </li> <li hidden="hidden" data-menu-item="i5security-tab" data-targets="action-list.items" role="none" data-view-component="true" class="ActionListItem"> <a tabindex="-1" id="item-801b07e3-b8e2-4936-b39d-7446deaef28b" href="/WICG/floc/security" role="menuitem" data-view-component="true" class="ActionListContent ActionListContent--visual16"> <span class="ActionListItem-visual ActionListItem-visual--leading"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-shield"> <path d="M7.467.133a1.748 1.748 0 0 1 1.066 0l5.25 1.68A1.75 1.75 0 0 1 15 3.48V7c0 1.566-.32 3.182-1.303 4.682-.983 1.498-2.585 2.813-5.032 3.855a1.697 1.697 0 0 1-1.33 0c-2.447-1.042-4.049-2.357-5.032-3.855C1.32 10.182 1 8.566 1 7V3.48a1.75 1.75 0 0 1 1.217-1.667Zm.61 1.429a.25.25 0 0 0-.153 0l-5.25 1.68a.25.25 0 0 0-.174.238V7c0 1.358.275 2.666 1.057 3.86.784 1.194 2.121 2.34 4.366 3.297a.196.196 0 0 0 .154 0c2.245-.956 3.582-2.104 4.366-3.298C13.225 9.666 13.5 8.36 13.5 7V3.48a.251.251 0 0 0-.174-.237l-5.25-1.68ZM8.75 4.75v3a.75.75 0 0 1-1.5 0v-3a.75.75 0 0 1 1.5 0ZM9 10.5a1 1 0 1 1-2 0 1 1 0 0 1 2 0Z"></path> </svg> </span> <span data-view-component="true" class="ActionListItem-label"> Security </span> </a> </li> <li hidden="hidden" data-menu-item="i6insights-tab" data-targets="action-list.items" role="none" data-view-component="true" class="ActionListItem"> <a tabindex="-1" id="item-89f63f13-55b2-4a54-ad5a-99d311b8e7e6" href="/WICG/floc/pulse" role="menuitem" data-view-component="true" class="ActionListContent ActionListContent--visual16"> <span class="ActionListItem-visual ActionListItem-visual--leading"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-graph"> <path d="M1.5 1.75V13.5h13.75a.75.75 0 0 1 0 1.5H.75a.75.75 0 0 1-.75-.75V1.75a.75.75 0 0 1 1.5 0Zm14.28 2.53-5.25 5.25a.75.75 0 0 1-1.06 0L7 7.06 4.28 9.78a.751.751 0 0 1-1.042-.018.751.751 0 0 1-.018-1.042l3.25-3.25a.75.75 0 0 1 1.06 0L10 7.94l4.72-4.72a.751.751 0 0 1 1.042.018.751.751 0 0 1 .018 1.042Z"></path> </svg> </span> <span data-view-component="true" class="ActionListItem-label"> Insights </span> </a> </li> </ul> </div></action-list> </div> </div></anchored-position> </focus-group> </action-menu></div> </nav> </div> <turbo-frame id="repo-content-turbo-frame" target="_top" data-turbo-action="advance" class=""> <div id="repo-content-pjax-container" class="repository-content " > <div class="clearfix new-discussion-timeline js-check-all-container container-xl px-3 px-md-4 px-lg-5 mt-4" data-pjax="" data-turbo-frame=""> <div id="show_issue" class="js-issues-results js-socket-channel js-updatable-content" data-morpheus-enabled="false" data-channel="eyJjIjoiaXNzdWU6ODU3NTMwOTA2OnRpbWVsaW5lIiwidCI6MTczMjcwNjkzOX0=--d2eac451efc11d52ad2bdae1c6714c282289e16c937c762444892749ac3cb9a4"> <div id="partial-discussion-header" class="gh-header mb-3 js-details-container Details js-socket-channel js-updatable-content issue" data-channel="eyJjIjoiaXNzdWU6ODU3NTMwOTA2IiwidCI6MTczMjcwNjkzOX0=--a42552d8d7e999935e3ada14d1087f0a8eb4c917732a55e94009451ff75c0d72" data-url="/WICG/floc/issues/100/show_partial?partial=issues%2Ftitle&sticky=true" data-gid="MDU6SXNzdWU4NTc1MzA5MDY="> <div class="gh-header-show gh-header-no-access"> <div class="d-flex flex-column flex-md-row"> <h1 class="gh-header-title mb-2 lh-condensed f1 mr-0 flex-auto wb-break-word"> <bdi class="js-issue-title markdown-title">Cohort IDs can be collected over time to create cross-site tracking IDs</bdi> <span class="f1-light color-fg-muted">#100</span> </h1> </div> </div> <div class="d-flex flex-items-center flex-wrap mt-0 gh-header-meta"> <div class="flex-shrink-0 mb-2 flex-self-start flex-md-self-center"> <span title="Status: Open" data-view-component="true" class="State State--open d-flex flex-items-center"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-issue-opened flex-items-center mr-1"> <path d="M8 9.5a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Z"></path><path d="M8 0a8 8 0 1 1 0 16A8 8 0 0 1 8 0ZM1.5 8a6.5 6.5 0 1 0 13 0 6.5 6.5 0 0 0-13 0Z"></path> </svg> Open </span> </div> <div class="mb-2 flex-shrink-0"> <div> </div> </div> <div class="flex-shrink-0 mb-2 flex-self-start flex-md-self-center"> </div> <div class="flex-auto min-width-0 mb-2"> <a class="author text-bold Link--secondary" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/johnwilander/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/johnwilander">johnwilander</a> opened this issue <relative-time datetime="2021-04-14T05:21:43Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 14, 2021</relative-time> · 15 comments <span data-issue-and-pr-hovercards-enabled> </span> </div> </div> <div class="js-sticky js-sticky-offset-scroll top-0 gh-header-sticky"> <div class="sticky-content"> <div class="d-flex flex-items-center flex-justify-between mt-2"> <div class="d-flex flex-row flex-items-center min-width-0"> <div class="mr-2 mb-2 flex-shrink-0"> <span title="Status: Open" data-view-component="true" class="State State--open d-flex flex-items-center"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-issue-opened flex-items-center mr-1"> <path d="M8 9.5a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Z"></path><path d="M8 0a8 8 0 1 1 0 16A8 8 0 0 1 8 0ZM1.5 8a6.5 6.5 0 1 0 13 0 6.5 6.5 0 0 0-13 0Z"></path> </svg> Open </span> </div> <div class="mb-2 flex-shrink-0"> <div> </div> </div> <div class="mb-2 flex-shrink-0"> </div> <div class="min-width-0 mr-2 mb-2"> <h1 class="d-flex text-bold f5"> <a class="js-issue-title css-truncate css-truncate-target Link--primary width-fit markdown-title js-smoothscroll-anchor" href="#top"> Cohort IDs can be collected over time to create cross-site tracking IDs </a> <span class="gh-header-number color-fg-muted pl-1">#100</span> </h1> <div class="meta color-fg-muted css-truncate css-truncate-target d-block width-fit"> <a class="author text-bold Link--secondary" data-hovercard-z-index-override="111" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/johnwilander/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/johnwilander">johnwilander</a> opened this issue <relative-time datetime="2021-04-14T05:21:43Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 14, 2021</relative-time> · 15 comments <span data-issue-and-pr-hovercards-enabled> </span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="gh-header-shadow color-shadow-small js-notification-shelf-offset-top"></div> </div> <div id="discussion_bucket"> <div data-view-component="true" class="Layout Layout--flowRow-until-md Layout--sidebarPosition-end Layout--sidebarPosition-flowRow-end"> <div data-view-component="true" class="Layout-main"> <h2 class="sr-only">Comments</h2> <div class="js-quote-selection-container" data-quote-markdown=".js-comment-body" data-discussion-hovercards-enabled data-issue-and-pr-hovercards-enabled data-team-hovercards-enabled> <div class="js-discussion ml-0 pl-0 ml-md-6 pl-md-3" data-hpc > <div class="TimelineItem pt-0 js-comment-container js-socket-channel js-updatable-content " data-gid="MDU6SXNzdWU4NTc1MzA5MDY=" data-url="/WICG/floc/issues/100/partials/body?issue=100" data-channel="eyJjIjoiaXNzdWU6ODU3NTMwOTA2IiwidCI6MTczMjcwNjk0MH0=--d366787071ddddd4c141621b0fc41deabbb41999c0506ec0b0e773bd2f9e2101"> <div class="avatar-parent-child TimelineItem-avatar d-none d-md-block"> <a class="d-inline-block" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/johnwilander/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/johnwilander"><img class="avatar rounded-2 avatar-user" src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/784671?s=80&v=4" width="40" height="40" alt="@johnwilander" /></a> </div> <div class=" timeline-comment-group js-minimizable-comment-group js-targetable-element TimelineItem-body my-0 " id="issue-857530906"> <div class="ml-n3 timeline-comment unminimized-comment comment previewable-edit js-task-list-container js-comment timeline-comment--caret" data-body-version="b940fb3997dabc4243ddf0c804bba2c2120065fdcbf3a087b8c31cf006417caf"> <div class="timeline-comment-header clearfix d-flex" 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class="dropdown-item btn-link"> Copy link </clipboard-copy> <div aria-live="polite" aria-atomic="true" class="sr-only" data-clipboard-copy-feedback></div> </span> </details-menu> </details> </div> <div class="d-none d-sm-flex"> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/johnwilander/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/johnwilander">johnwilander</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issue-857530906" id="issue-857530906-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-14T05:21:43Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 14, 2021</relative-time></a> <span class="js-comment-edit-history"> <span class="d-inline-block color-fg-muted">•</span> <details class="details-overlay details-reset d-inline-block dropdown hx_dropdown-fullscreen"> <summary class="btn-link no-underline color-fg-muted js-notice"> <div class="position-relative"> <span> edited </span> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-triangle-down v-align-middle"> <path d="m4.427 7.427 3.396 3.396a.25.25 0 0 0 .354 0l3.396-3.396A.25.25 0 0 0 11.396 7H4.604a.25.25 0 0 0-.177.427Z"></path> </svg> </div> </summary> <details-menu class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-s width-auto py-0 js-comment-edit-history-menu" style="max-width: 352px; z-index: 99;" src="/user_content_edits/show_edit_history_log/MDU6SXNzdWU4NTc1MzA5MDY=" preload > <include-fragment class="my-3" style="min-width: 100px;" aria-label="Loading..."> <span data-view-component="true"> <svg style="box-sizing: content-box; color: var(--color-icon-primary);" width="32" height="32" viewBox="0 0 16 16" fill="none" aria-hidden="true" data-view-component="true" class="mx-auto d-block anim-rotate"> <circle cx="8" cy="8" r="7" stroke="currentColor" stroke-opacity="0.25" stroke-width="2" vector-effect="non-scaling-stroke" fill="none" /> <path d="M15 8a7.002 7.002 0 00-7-7" stroke="currentColor" stroke-width="2" stroke-linecap="round" vector-effect="non-scaling-stroke" /> </svg> <span class="sr-only">Loading</span> </span> </include-fragment> </details-menu> </details> </span> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto">In <a href="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/99">https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/99</a>, it is stated that "FLoC is not useful for tracking." I don't think that's accurate.</p> <p dir="auto">As far as I know, the user's cohort will not be partitioned per first party site so multiple sites can observe the cohort ID in sync as it changes week after week. A hash of the cohorts seen so far will likely get more and more unique as the weeks go by.</p> <p dir="auto">Websites or tracker scripts on websites can expose arrays of the cohorts they've seen to help all trackers identify the user, like this:</p> <div class="snippet-clipboard-content notranslate position-relative overflow-auto" data-snippet-clipboard-copy-content="let cohortCollectionForWebsiteA = [ "week01_2022" : "0666", "week03_2022" : "A566", "week04_2022" : "2111", "week05_2022" : "1171", "week07_2022" : "749B", ] let cohortCollectionForWebsiteB = [ "week01_2022" : "0666", "week02_2022" : "0030", "week05_2022" : "1171", "week06_2022" : "7311", "week07_2022" : "749B", ]"><pre class="notranslate"><code class="notranslate">let cohortCollectionForWebsiteA = [ "week01_2022" : "0666", "week03_2022" : "A566", "week04_2022" : "2111", "week05_2022" : "1171", "week07_2022" : "749B", ] let cohortCollectionForWebsiteB = [ "week01_2022" : "0666", "week02_2022" : "0030", "week05_2022" : "1171", "week06_2022" : "7311", "week07_2022" : "749B", ] </code></pre></div> <p dir="auto">Trackers send these to a server for matching across websites, in the example above, resulting in the intersection <code class="notranslate">[ "week01_2022", "week05_2022", "week07_2022" ]</code>.</p> <p dir="auto">The cohort collections can be tied to PII on sites that have access to such information about the user. This would allow a tracker with just a collection on one site to call a server and get back PII for that user.</p> <p dir="auto">If cohorts were partitioned (maybe they are?), the tracking effort would take longer but observed partitioned cohort IDs can be sorted to potentially create a unique ID across websites. You get something like snippets of a DNA that eventually become unique, as a set, and trackers will know which cohorts are widespread and which quickly reduce the search space.</p> <p dir="auto">Even if the tracker cannot get to a unique ID for a particular user, the entropy boost from collected cohort IDs is tremendous and can easily be combined with existing fingerprinting entropy such as language settings.</p> <p dir="auto">Sorry if I'm missing something in the above analysis or if this was filed earlier.</p> </td> </tr> <tr class="d-block pl-3 pr-3 pb-3 js-comment-body-error" hidden> <td class="d-block"> <div class="flash flash-warn" role="alert"> <p class="mb-1"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-info"> <path d="M0 8a8 8 0 1 1 16 0A8 8 0 0 1 0 8Zm8-6.5a6.5 6.5 0 1 0 0 13 6.5 6.5 0 0 0 0-13ZM6.5 7.75A.75.75 0 0 1 7.25 7h1a.75.75 0 0 1 .75.75v2.75h.25a.75.75 0 0 1 0 1.5h-2a.75.75 0 0 1 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js-timeline-progressive-focus-container" data-gid="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgxOTI0ODk0Mg=="> <div class="TimelineItem js-comment-container" data-gid="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgxOTI0ODk0Mg==" data-url="/WICG/floc/comments/MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgxOTI0ODk0Mg==/partials/timeline_issue_comment" > <div class="avatar-parent-child TimelineItem-avatar d-none d-md-block"> <a class="d-inline-block" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/johnwilander/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/johnwilander"><img class="avatar rounded-2 avatar-user" src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/784671?s=80&v=4" width="40" height="40" alt="@johnwilander" /></a> </div> <div class=" timeline-comment-group js-minimizable-comment-group js-targetable-element TimelineItem-body my-0 " id="issuecomment-819248942"> <div class="ml-n3 timeline-comment unminimized-comment comment previewable-edit js-task-list-container js-comment 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> <span data-view-component="true"> <clipboard-copy aria-label="Copy link" for="issuecomment-819248942-permalink" role="menuitem" data-view-component="true" class="dropdown-item btn-link"> Copy link </clipboard-copy> <div aria-live="polite" aria-atomic="true" class="sr-only" data-clipboard-copy-feedback></div> </span> </details-menu> </details> </div> <div class="d-none d-sm-flex"> <span aria-label="This user is the author of this issue." data-view-component="true" class="tooltipped tooltipped-n"> <span data-view-component="true" class="Label ml-1">Author</span> </span> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/johnwilander/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/johnwilander">johnwilander</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issuecomment-819248942" id="issuecomment-819248942-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-14T05:54:18Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 14, 2021</relative-time></a> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto">To take this to the crowd metaphor: Before the pandemic and some time back, I attended a Mew concert, a Ghost concert, Disney on Ice, and a Def Leppard concert. At each of those events I was part of a large crowd. But I bet you I was the only one to attend all four.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container has-reactions d-flex"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="zrU2UKLN1g7YbbRgK0C1bXI-zUAYgAW1GuIyJdZPtvBR6qptSHApj0Uw2rkiz9bXL7pBtB07Wdz3fMaPyhZf_Q" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgxOTI0ODk0Mg=="> <input type="hidden" name="input[context]" value="" > <div class="js-comment-reactions-options d-flex flex-items-center flex-row flex-wrap"> <button name="input[content]" id="reactions--reaction_button_component-9e3b1d" value="THUMBS_UP react" data-button-index-position="0" data-reaction-label="+1" data-reaction-content="+1" aria-pressed="false" aria-label="react with thumbs up" type="submit" disabled="disabled" data-view-component="true" class="social-reaction-summary-item js-reaction-group-button btn-link d-flex no-underline color-fg-muted flex-items-baseline mr-2"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji">👍</g-emoji> <span class="js-discussion-reaction-group-count">108</span> </button> <tool-tip id="tooltip-c15360a5-a98a-4eaa-8e1f-e4ecc11e2e30" for="reactions--reaction_button_component-9e3b1d" popover="manual" data-direction="n" data-type="description" data-view-component="true" class="sr-only position-absolute">chaosite, Sora2455, tim-hm, dczysz, salzig, dljsjr, adav, gniewus, vszakats, aloisdg, and 98 more reacted with thumbs up emoji</tool-tip> <button name="input[content]" id="reactions--reaction_button_component-771267" value="LAUGH react" data-button-index-position="2" data-reaction-label="Laugh" data-reaction-content="smile" aria-pressed="false" aria-label="react with laugh" type="submit" disabled="disabled" data-view-component="true" class="social-reaction-summary-item js-reaction-group-button btn-link d-flex no-underline color-fg-muted flex-items-baseline mr-2"> <g-emoji alias="smile" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f604-7528822fb4c5.png" class="social-button-emoji">😄</g-emoji> <span class="js-discussion-reaction-group-count">3</span> </button> <tool-tip id="tooltip-7834af5e-0055-4bc6-a314-4044b9402090" for="reactions--reaction_button_component-771267" popover="manual" data-direction="n" data-type="description" data-view-component="true" class="sr-only position-absolute">kapravel, ydennisy, and dmdabbs reacted with laugh emoji</tool-tip> <div class="js-reactions-container"> <details class="dropdown details-reset details-overlay d-inline-block js-all-reactions-popover" hidden> <summary aria-haspopup="true" data-view-component="true" class="Button--link Button--medium Button"> <span class="Button-content"> <span class="Button-label">All reactions</span> </span> </summary> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-se"> <li class="dropdown-item" aria-label="chaosite, Sora2455, tim-hm, dczysz, salzig, dljsjr, adav, gniewus, vszakats, aloisdg, and 98 more reacted with thumbs up emoji"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji mr-2">👍</g-emoji> <span>108 reactions</span> </li> <li class="dropdown-item" aria-label="kapravel, ydennisy, and dmdabbs reacted with laugh emoji"> <g-emoji alias="smile" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f604-7528822fb4c5.png" class="social-button-emoji mr-2">😄</g-emoji> <span>3 reactions</span> </li> </ul> </details> </div> </div> </form></div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-comment-update" id="issuecomment-819248942-edit-form" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/819248942" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" data-csrf="true" name="authenticity_token" value="EBFZjh0tyod3RSeILTPA85UaUKEkELBuYrVO7Xz99gbgPpVNGKgi2l5ha1ZC/m8lUZHO8vBX41Pm17YLU+bD4g==" /> <include-fragment loading="lazy" src="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/819248942/edit_form?textarea_id=issuecomment-819248942-body&comment_context=" class="previewable-comment-form js-comment-edit-form-deferred-include-fragment" > <p class="text-center mt-3" data-hide-on-error> <span data-view-component="true"> <svg aria-label="Loading..." style="box-sizing: content-box; 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("Longitudinal Privacy" section: <a class="commit-link" data-hovercard-type="commit" data-hovercard-url="https://github.com/WICG/floc/commit/d822a35f4bfe7d5003fda4a7628fca2da8ace8d3/hovercard" href="https://github.com/WICG/floc/commit/d822a35f4bfe7d5003fda4a7628fca2da8ace8d3"><tt>d822a35</tt></a> )</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container has-reactions d-flex"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="OMdgyj0KoPCpbhTPCQTFmKOZQkg_6MWbnGJMD4uZsV6nmPz317dfcTQzehYAi6Yi_h3OvDpTmfJx_Lill8BYUw" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgxOTY1MTI1NA=="> <input type="hidden" name="input[context]" value="" > <div class="js-comment-reactions-options d-flex flex-items-center flex-row flex-wrap"> <button name="input[content]" id="reactions--reaction_button_component-d38d40" value="THUMBS_UP react" data-button-index-position="0" data-reaction-label="+1" data-reaction-content="+1" aria-pressed="false" aria-label="react with thumbs up" type="submit" disabled="disabled" data-view-component="true" class="social-reaction-summary-item js-reaction-group-button btn-link d-flex no-underline color-fg-muted flex-items-baseline mr-2"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji">👍</g-emoji> <span class="js-discussion-reaction-group-count">7</span> </button> <tool-tip id="tooltip-9d08475f-1efd-4627-bebc-9d16455d29c9" for="reactions--reaction_button_component-d38d40" popover="manual" data-direction="n" data-type="description" data-view-component="true" class="sr-only position-absolute">dcolascione, kevincox, Ryu1845, ssg, syvb, rajnathani, and jherazob reacted with thumbs up emoji</tool-tip> <div class="js-reactions-container"> <details class="dropdown details-reset details-overlay d-inline-block js-all-reactions-popover" hidden> <summary aria-haspopup="true" data-view-component="true" class="Button--link Button--medium Button"> <span class="Button-content"> <span class="Button-label">All reactions</span> </span> </summary> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-se"> <li class="dropdown-item" aria-label="dcolascione, kevincox, Ryu1845, ssg, syvb, rajnathani, and jherazob reacted with thumbs up emoji"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji mr-2">👍</g-emoji> <span>7 reactions</span> </li> </ul> </details> </div> </div> </form></div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-comment-update" id="issuecomment-819651254-edit-form" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/819651254" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" data-csrf="true" name="authenticity_token" value="y3tu/AEzvVxp53/HT2lUSTvVzynTNmgpOHloBNOQJIeVy9TaGcfZwta5Uip2wMpg2w0EPV2zx+VSUxOkV7W85A==" /> <include-fragment loading="lazy" src="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/819651254/edit_form?textarea_id=issuecomment-819651254-body&comment_context=" class="previewable-comment-form js-comment-edit-form-deferred-include-fragment" > <p class="text-center mt-3" data-hide-on-error> <span data-view-component="true"> <svg aria-label="Loading..." style="box-sizing: content-box; 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("Longitudinal Privacy" section: <a href="https://github.com/WICG/floc/commit/d822a35f4bfe7d5003fda4a7628fca2da8ace8d3">d822a35</a> )</p> </blockquote> <p dir="auto">Thanks. That's more or less the same analysis.</p> <p dir="auto">I don't think updating cohort IDs at different times solves the problem. See the sorting attack I mentioned.</p> <p dir="auto">Making it sticky is interesting. First of all, I assume the website will not be allowed to delete it so it becomes a persistent "visited" flag. Second, the sticky cohort ID becomes a persistent fingerprinting signal per website that carries over even if different accounts log in to the site or the site tries to clear its state. Third, sticky cohort IDs could be set up for a small set of bounce tracking domains and be used to pick up a persistent ID. Finally, being persistently assigned a cohort for ad targeting purposes can be really bad for users (see the stories on baby ads after miscarriage and marriage ads after cancelled wedding) and probably not popular with advertisers who want "fresh" interest signals to target.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container has-reactions d-flex"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="ret48SWE6vWN0ZPtTg0l8JiGX0JNpI81QpBxpWZHl60ytOTMzzkVdBCM_TRHgkZKxQLTtkgf01yvDoUPeh5-oA" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" 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data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/dmarti"><img class="avatar avatar-user" src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/48007?s=40&u=6d6ccad2666f5037ae4e9bb37bae00a5a8e75e8a&v=4" width="20" height="20" alt="@dmarti" /></a> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/dmarti/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/dmarti">dmarti</a> mentioned this issue <a class="Link--secondary" href="#ref-issue-838006939" > <relative-time datetime="2021-04-14T17:41:41Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 14, 2021</relative-time> </a> </div> <div class="mt-2 d-flex flex-items-start flex-column flex-md-row"> <div class="flex-auto wb-break-word" id="ref-issue-838006939" > <a href="/WICG/floc/issues/77" class="Link--primary f4 text-bold markdown-title" data-hovercard-type="issue" data-hovercard-url="/WICG/floc/issues/77/hovercard"> Sites recording a user entering and leaving a sensitive category <span class="color-fg-muted text-normal" >#77</span> </a> </div> <div class="flex-shrink-0 my-1 my-md-0 ml-md-3"> <span title="Status: Closed" data-view-component="true" class="State State--merged State--small d-flex flex-items-center"> <svg aria-hidden="true" height="12" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="12" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-issue-closed flex-items-center mr-1"> <path d="M11.28 6.78a.75.75 0 0 0-1.06-1.06L7.25 8.69 5.78 7.22a.75.75 0 0 0-1.06 1.06l2 2a.75.75 0 0 0 1.06 0l3.5-3.5Z"></path><path d="M16 8A8 8 0 1 1 0 8a8 8 0 0 1 16 0Zm-1.5 0a6.5 6.5 0 1 0-13 0 6.5 6.5 0 0 0 13 0Z"></path> </svg> Closed </span> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="js-timeline-item js-timeline-progressive-focus-container" data-gid="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgxOTcxNTE2Mg=="> <div class="TimelineItem js-comment-container" data-gid="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgxOTcxNTE2Mg==" data-url="/WICG/floc/comments/MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgxOTcxNTE2Mg==/partials/timeline_issue_comment" > <div class="avatar-parent-child TimelineItem-avatar d-none d-md-block"> <a class="d-inline-block" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/dmarti/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/dmarti"><img class="avatar rounded-2 avatar-user" src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/48007?s=80&u=6d6ccad2666f5037ae4e9bb37bae00a5a8e75e8a&v=4" width="40" height="40" alt="@dmarti" /></a> </div> <div class=" timeline-comment-group js-minimizable-comment-group js-targetable-element TimelineItem-body my-0 " id="issuecomment-819715162"> <div class="ml-n3 timeline-comment unminimized-comment comment previewable-edit js-task-list-container js-comment timeline-comment--caret" data-body-version="7973758565f056eaf138b9db36ddf401562da7bd37ad19981927ae41dd5dff9f"> <div class="timeline-comment-header clearfix d-flex" data-morpheus-enabled="false"> <div class="timeline-comment-actions flex-shrink-0 d-flex flex-items-center"> <details 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data-clipboard-copy-feedback></div> </span> </details-menu> </details> </div> <div class="d-none d-sm-flex"> <span aria-label="This user has previously committed to the floc repository." data-view-component="true" class="tooltipped tooltipped-n"> <span data-view-component="true" class="Label ml-1">Contributor</span> </span> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/dmarti/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/dmarti">dmarti</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issuecomment-819715162" id="issuecomment-819715162-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-14T17:51:17Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 14, 2021</relative-time></a> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto">Thank you, good points about how sticky cohort IDs could interact with other state preserved by a site. (<a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load title" data-id="838006939" data-permission-text="Title is private" data-url="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/77" data-hovercard-type="issue" data-hovercard-url="/WICG/floc/issues/77/hovercard" href="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/77">#77</a> covers the similar issue of sites being able to observe the timing of when a user joins and leaves the "null cohort").</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container d-none"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" 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class="dropdown-item btn-link"> Copy link </clipboard-copy> <div aria-live="polite" aria-atomic="true" class="sr-only" data-clipboard-copy-feedback></div> </span> </details-menu> </details> </div> <div class="d-none d-sm-flex"> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/othermaciej/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/othermaciej">othermaciej</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issuecomment-820649847" id="issuecomment-820649847-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-15T18:39:32Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 15, 2021</relative-time></a> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto">If cohort IDs are sticky, would the user still be able to delete/reset their cohort ID, e.g. by deleting website data or clearing history?</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container d-none"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="g-S4Bfw4PP9RPHfEJSuPHTb34Vl5GN654ns41od4nRkcuyQ4FoXDfsxhGR0spOyna3NtrXyjgtAP5cx8myF0FA" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyMDY0OTg0Nw=="> <input 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class="d-none d-sm-flex"> <span aria-label="This user has been invited to collaborate on the floc repository." data-view-component="true" class="tooltipped tooltipped-n"> <span data-view-component="true" class="Label ml-1">Collaborator</span> </span> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/michaelkleber/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/michaelkleber">michaelkleber</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issuecomment-820772658" id="issuecomment-820772658-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-15T22:42:30Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 15, 2021</relative-time></a> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto">Hi John,</p> <p dir="auto">Right, this is indeed the <a href="https://github.com/WICG/floc#longitudinal-privacy">"Longitudinal privacy" question</a>. We've been considering a few different mitigations. As you know, this is an iterative and open process, and we expect to implement one or more of these solutions in future versions of FLoC. (Remember that third-party cookies are still around in Chrome, so FLoC-based "slow fingerprinting" does not pose any tracking risk beyond what 3p cookies are already offering today.)</p> <ol dir="auto"> <li> <p dir="auto">There's stickiness, as Don pointed out — or maybe not permanent stickiness, but the cohort changing only slowly on each site. (Of course it would still need to be cleared along with any other first-party state, for the reasons you mentioned above. That would put a person into the has-no-cohort category until the next time it would get re-calculated.)</p> </li> <li> <p dir="auto">There's the related idea of <em>computing</em> a person's cohort at different times on different sites. This isn't the same as <em>updating</em> at different times, which I think you were referring to above. The idea here is that different sites a person visits would see a flock derived from a different time window.</p> <p dir="auto">As <a class="user-mention notranslate" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/npdoty/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/npdoty">@npdoty</a> pointed out in <span class="reference"><svg class="octicon octicon-issue-opened open mr-1" title="Open" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" height="16" aria-hidden="true"><path d="M8 9.5a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Z"></path><path d="M8 0a8 8 0 1 1 0 16A8 8 0 0 1 8 0ZM1.5 8a6.5 6.5 0 1 0 13 0 6.5 6.5 0 0 0-13 0Z"></path></svg><a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load title" data-id="835098131" data-permission-text="Title is private" data-url="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/69" data-hovercard-type="issue" data-hovercard-url="/WICG/floc/issues/69/hovercard" href="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/69">PING Privacy Review: Adds a new fingerprinting vector<span class="issue-shorthand"> #69</span></a></span>, how useful this is depends on how different a person's browsing is on different days. Real-world data seems like the best way to measure the decrease in fingerprintability here.</p> </li> <li> <p dir="auto">There's the idea of adding per-site noise to the output of the hash function, as mentioned in the <a href="https://github.com/WICG/floc#how-the-interest-cohort-will-be-calculated">original explainer</a>. This is mostly a Differential Privacy approach to further address the concern about leaking browsing history. But once you're adding noise, that noise can vary by which site you're on, so that your history of cohorts-over-time on different sites look pretty different from each other.</p> <p dir="auto">This requires measuring the privacy/utility trade-off as you vary the amount of noise. If the noise weight is 0, we need to worry about the attack you described; if the noise weight is large, it drowns out the browsing-based signal entirely, and the cohort ID is effectively your per-site random number of the week. The question is whether there is a useful value in between.</p> </li> </ol> <p dir="auto">Those aren't the only possibilities, but they do seem collectively promising enough to warrant further exploration.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container has-reactions d-flex"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="Izh2rs3cDUsyD543iI5Ruth1r595E3GFgePL_8aoQM28Z-qTJ2Hyyq9S8O6BATIAhfEja3yoLexsfT9V2vGpwA" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyMDc3MjY1OA=="> <input type="hidden" 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text-bold" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/AbhyudayaSharma/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/AbhyudayaSharma">AbhyudayaSharma</a> added a commit to AbhyudayaSharma/abhyudayasharma.github.io that referenced this issue <a href="#ref-commit-11aba46" class="Link--secondary"> <relative-time datetime="2021-04-16T10:15:15Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 16, 2021</relative-time> </a> <div class="mt-3"> <div class="js-details-container Details js-socket-channel js-updatable-content" data-channel="eyJjIjoicmVwbzoxOTQ0ODMwOTA6Y29tbWl0OjExYWJhNDYwMjRmY2I3YjMzNWM3NTc2ZWMyYmM1YzhlNjU1NjI2ZmQiLCJ0IjoxNzMyNzA2OTQwfQ==--c6bd8de1a3b073e4939c02d15c860530a70de54912c24c5d7e3395644399ef7c" data-url="/AbhyudayaSharma/abhyudayasharma.github.io/commit/11aba46024fcb7b335c7576ec2bc5c8e655626fd/show_partial?partial=commit%2Fcondensed_details"> <div class="d-flex flex-md-row flex-column"> <div class="d-flex flex-auto"> <div class="AvatarStack flex-self-start " > <div class="AvatarStack-body" > <a class="avatar avatar-user" style="width:20px;height:20px;" data-test-selector="commits-avatar-stack-avatar-link" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/AbhyudayaSharma/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/AbhyudayaSharma"> <img data-test-selector="commits-avatar-stack-avatar-image" src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/11471599?s=40&u=64dde316a77aeb1d21033a6eadaacb40a2e3d3ef&v=4" width="20" height="20" alt="@AbhyudayaSharma" class=" avatar-user" /> </a> </div> </div> <div class="pr-1 flex-auto min-width-0" > <code> <a title="Opt out of Google's FLoC See: * https://github.com/WICG/floc#opting-out-of-computation * https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/103 * https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/100 FLoC can allow Google (and presumably other parties) to track users across the web. Anyone visiting my website would have his cohort change, making them more easily identifiable across the web. I do not track my users and neither should Google, or any one for that matter." data-pjax="true" class="Link--secondary markdown-title" href="/AbhyudayaSharma/abhyudayasharma.github.io/commit/11aba46024fcb7b335c7576ec2bc5c8e655626fd">Opt out of Google's FLoC</a> </code> <span class="hidden-text-expander inline"> <button type="button" class="ellipsis-expander js-details-target" aria-expanded="false">…</button> </span> </div> <div class="pr-1 d-md-inline-block d-none"> <batch-deferred-content class="d-inline-block" data-url="/commits/badges"> <input type="hidden" name="id" value="MDY6Q29tbWl0MTk0NDgzMDkwOjExYWJhNDYwMjRmY2I3YjMzNWM3NTc2ZWMyYmM1YzhlNjU1NjI2ZmQ=" data-targets="batch-deferred-content.inputs" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="badge_size" value="small" data-targets="batch-deferred-content.inputs" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="dropdown_direction" value="w" data-targets="batch-deferred-content.inputs" autocomplete="off" /> <span class="Skeleton d-inline-block mr-1" style="width:75px; height:14px; margin-bottom:-4px;"></span> </batch-deferred-content> </div> <div class="pr-1 flex-shrink-0" style="width: 16px;"> </div> <!-- ml-1 is added to accommodate "clock" icon --> <div class="text-right ml-1"> <code> <a href="/AbhyudayaSharma/abhyudayasharma.github.io/commit/11aba46024fcb7b335c7576ec2bc5c8e655626fd" class="Link--secondary">11aba46</a> </code> </div> </div> </div> <div class="Details-content--hidden mt-2"> <pre class="color-fg-muted ws-pre-wrap">See: * <a href="https://github.com/WICG/floc#opting-out-of-computation">https://github.com/WICG/floc#opting-out-of-computation</a> * <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load title" data-id="859023814" data-permission-text="Title is private" data-url="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/103" data-hovercard-type="issue" data-hovercard-url="/WICG/floc/issues/103/hovercard" href="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/103">WICG/floc#103</a> * <a class="issue-link js-issue-link" data-error-text="Failed to load title" data-id="857530906" data-permission-text="Title is private" data-url="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/100" data-hovercard-type="issue" data-hovercard-url="/WICG/floc/issues/100/hovercard" href="https://github.com/WICG/floc/issues/100">WICG/floc#100</a> FLoC can allow Google (and presumably other parties) to track users across the web. Anyone visiting my website would have his cohort change, making them more easily identifiable across the web. I do not track my users and neither should Google, or any one for that matter.</pre> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="js-timeline-item js-timeline-progressive-focus-container" data-gid="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyMjgwMTY4Mg=="> <div class="TimelineItem js-comment-container" data-gid="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyMjgwMTY4Mg==" data-url="/WICG/floc/comments/MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyMjgwMTY4Mg==/partials/timeline_issue_comment" > <div class="avatar-parent-child TimelineItem-avatar d-none d-md-block"> <a class="d-inline-block" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/fabiomariotti/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/fabiomariotti"><img class="avatar rounded-2 avatar-user" src="https://avatars.githubusercontent.com/u/28046435?s=80&u=c55befaf32f605cdc24479886b66f5cf020ddf1e&v=4" width="40" height="40" alt="@fabiomariotti" /></a> </div> <div class=" timeline-comment-group js-minimizable-comment-group js-targetable-element TimelineItem-body my-0 " id="issuecomment-822801682"> <div class="ml-n3 timeline-comment unminimized-comment comment previewable-edit js-task-list-container js-comment timeline-comment--caret" data-body-version="323081e97f675591403de2ca61bd9d9774c73e73f56bcdd917f9af391c3a43ca"> <div class="timeline-comment-header clearfix d-flex" data-morpheus-enabled="false"> <div class="timeline-comment-actions flex-shrink-0 d-flex flex-items-center"> <details class="details-overlay details-reset position-relative d-inline-block"> <summary data-view-component="true" class="timeline-comment-action Link--secondary Button--link Button--medium Button"> <span class="Button-content"> <span class="Button-label"><svg aria-label="Show options" role="img" height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-kebab-horizontal"> <path d="M8 9a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3ZM1.5 9a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Zm13 0a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Z"></path> </svg></span> </span> </summary> <details-menu class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-sw show-more-popover color-fg-default" style="width:185px" src="" preload > <span data-view-component="true"> <clipboard-copy aria-label="Copy link" for="issuecomment-822801682-permalink" role="menuitem" data-view-component="true" class="dropdown-item btn-link"> Copy link </clipboard-copy> <div aria-live="polite" aria-atomic="true" class="sr-only" data-clipboard-copy-feedback></div> </span> </details-menu> </details> </div> <div class="d-none d-sm-flex"> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/fabiomariotti/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/fabiomariotti">fabiomariotti</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issuecomment-822801682" id="issuecomment-822801682-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-19T21:35:54Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 19, 2021</relative-time></a> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto">It would be interesting to explore these limitations for 3rd parties. It somehow puts an upper-bound on quality. 3rd party would fell in either tracking or having low quality. I mean: whatever the standard quality would be.</p> <p dir="auto">But if this comment is correct, we would have GDPR issues right away. I think in EU this will not pass.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container d-none"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="aiBXOCAWBSBBwdwVJkJU9765PsfWKAGDW_BvA__N6-n1f8sFyqv6odycsswvzTdN4z2yM9OTXeq2bpup45QC5A" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyMjgwMTY4Mg=="> <input type="hidden" name="input[context]" value="" > <div class="js-comment-reactions-options d-flex flex-items-center flex-row flex-wrap"> <div class="js-reactions-container"> <details class="dropdown details-reset details-overlay d-inline-block js-all-reactions-popover" hidden> <summary aria-haspopup="true" data-view-component="true" class="Button--link Button--medium Button"> <span class="Button-content"> <span class="Button-label">All reactions</span> </span> </summary> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-se"> </ul> </details> </div> </div> </form></div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-comment-update" id="issuecomment-822801682-edit-form" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/822801682" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" data-csrf="true" name="authenticity_token" value="RFBGNLMvZ2pMQUJfaput7zr06nqgL9xKwB9yYhXLyY0/T2zR8q/qkxFvtsERELa48/LYoTf9ylG/Z+yH0nBFEw==" /> <include-fragment loading="lazy" src="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/822801682/edit_form?textarea_id=issuecomment-822801682-body&comment_context=" class="previewable-comment-form js-comment-edit-form-deferred-include-fragment" > <p class="text-center mt-3" data-hide-on-error> <span data-view-component="true"> <svg aria-label="Loading..." style="box-sizing: content-box; 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If the noise weight is 0, we need to worry about the attack you described; if the noise weight is large, it drowns out the browsing-based signal entirely, and the cohort ID is effectively your per-site random number of the week. The question is whether there is a useful value in between.</p> </blockquote> <p dir="auto"><a class="user-mention notranslate" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/michaelkleber/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/michaelkleber">@michaelkleber</a> <a class="user-mention notranslate" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/dmarti/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/dmarti">@dmarti</a></p> <p dir="auto">I've read several issues describing noise-based solutions for tracking cases, but I wonder if this approach is possibly a problematic antipattern for the following reason:</p> <p dir="auto">I am not sure a 'fine line' between 'noise low enough to not hurt the publisher' and 'noise high enough to thwart tracking case', exists because the tracker actually gains more value and accuracy from the noisy signal. If anything it promotes reliance on them the need to do extra tracking.</p> <p dir="auto">If the noise is low enough so that the signal has value but is imperfect, then any abuse case server tracking system could simply work as intended, and just add an equal uncertainty to their algorithm's acceptable parameters and widen the scope. In fact, coordinated trackers will be able to view a more accurate view of reality than the laymen who simply accepts the noisy signal, and their actions are further rewarded. I worry noisy approaches will only serve to hurt small publishers and those who use the system as intended.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container has-reactions d-flex"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="CMJF_CQrKVWMeI_IMXazeFiGf3DDV0YCY5hEagfFiOeXndnBzpbW1BEl4RE4-dDCBQLzhMbsGmuOBrDAG5xh6g" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyNTgzMjU1NQ=="> <input type="hidden" name="input[context]" value="" > <div class="js-comment-reactions-options d-flex flex-items-center flex-row flex-wrap"> <button name="input[content]" id="reactions--reaction_button_component-083ed1" value="THUMBS_UP react" data-button-index-position="0" data-reaction-label="+1" data-reaction-content="+1" aria-pressed="false" aria-label="react with thumbs up" type="submit" disabled="disabled" data-view-component="true" class="social-reaction-summary-item js-reaction-group-button btn-link d-flex no-underline color-fg-muted flex-items-baseline mr-2"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji">👍</g-emoji> <span class="js-discussion-reaction-group-count">1</span> </button> <tool-tip id="tooltip-7b4923f7-0df7-461f-85db-1c46986b780e" for="reactions--reaction_button_component-083ed1" popover="manual" data-direction="n" data-type="description" data-view-component="true" class="sr-only position-absolute">Sora2455 reacted with thumbs up emoji</tool-tip> <div class="js-reactions-container"> <details class="dropdown details-reset details-overlay d-inline-block js-all-reactions-popover" hidden> <summary aria-haspopup="true" data-view-component="true" class="Button--link Button--medium Button"> <span class="Button-content"> <span class="Button-label">All reactions</span> </span> </summary> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-se"> <li class="dropdown-item" aria-label="Sora2455 reacted with thumbs up emoji"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji mr-2">👍</g-emoji> <span>1 reaction</span> </li> </ul> </details> </div> </div> </form></div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-comment-update" id="issuecomment-825832555-edit-form" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/825832555" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" data-csrf="true" name="authenticity_token" value="xLO5M5cSYPPzjkxYV4G9vpVxJuAGRk4VAC4KBjuH+jG5nVVyOx4PX7OTSWedEugo+kBenHApQK1c/ZGQ1QE9sg==" /> <include-fragment loading="lazy" src="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/825832555/edit_form?textarea_id=issuecomment-825832555-body&comment_context=" class="previewable-comment-form js-comment-edit-form-deferred-include-fragment" > <p class="text-center mt-3" data-hide-on-error> <span data-view-component="true"> <svg aria-label="Loading..." style="box-sizing: content-box; 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That can't possibly get them more information than the un-noised flock, though.</p> <p dir="auto">But in any case, I don't see how that would help them learn your real flock on some other site where they <em>don't</em> already know you're the same person.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container has-reactions d-flex"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="JX4RAqdEbOrK7H0OBGJyGyRFj-Uj28bL0W45OHVlDPG6IY0_TfmTa1exE9cN7RGhecEDESZgmqI88M2SaTzl_A" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyNTkzNzU4OQ=="> <input type="hidden" name="input[context]" value="" > <div class="js-comment-reactions-options d-flex flex-items-center flex-row flex-wrap"> <button name="input[content]" id="reactions--reaction_button_component-74a914" value="THUMBS_UP react" data-button-index-position="0" data-reaction-label="+1" data-reaction-content="+1" aria-pressed="false" aria-label="react with thumbs up" type="submit" disabled="disabled" data-view-component="true" class="social-reaction-summary-item js-reaction-group-button btn-link d-flex no-underline color-fg-muted flex-items-baseline mr-2"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji">👍</g-emoji> <span class="js-discussion-reaction-group-count">1</span> </button> <tool-tip id="tooltip-bb42c082-d09b-40ad-b368-dcc6a47b9f90" for="reactions--reaction_button_component-74a914" popover="manual" data-direction="n" data-type="description" data-view-component="true" class="sr-only position-absolute">Sora2455 reacted with thumbs up emoji</tool-tip> <div class="js-reactions-container"> <details class="dropdown details-reset details-overlay d-inline-block js-all-reactions-popover" hidden> <summary aria-haspopup="true" data-view-component="true" class="Button--link Button--medium Button"> <span class="Button-content"> <span class="Button-label">All reactions</span> </span> </summary> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-se"> <li class="dropdown-item" aria-label="Sora2455 reacted with thumbs up emoji"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji mr-2">👍</g-emoji> <span>1 reaction</span> </li> </ul> </details> </div> </div> </form></div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-comment-update" id="issuecomment-825937589-edit-form" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/825937589" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" data-csrf="true" name="authenticity_token" value="fBeNr3NTmPjfuFdkJ+ukKLCoSdh9A+Le7CgDI1fL0uDT0BJxl54LQvapfUDrIjYvcrN5j9zZLSjBEyCGdd9i+A==" /> <include-fragment loading="lazy" src="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/825937589/edit_form?textarea_id=issuecomment-825937589-body&comment_context=" class="previewable-comment-form js-comment-edit-form-deferred-include-fragment" > <p class="text-center mt-3" data-hide-on-error> <span data-view-component="true"> <svg aria-label="Loading..." style="box-sizing: content-box; 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To put it another way, assume the tracker and the average system compete to get the best data in a noise world and a noiseless world. The tracker's information in the noisy world is worse than in a non-noise world, but, <strong>relative to the average system</strong> in a noisy world, the tracker has the capacity to reduce error past the noise and achieve an accuracy of probability higher than the noise error. The limit is as you say the un-noised floc, but the average system has a noised floc, which is worse than the tracker. Thus the tracker is rewarded even more in the noisy system, even though everyone's data, average and tracker alike, is worse. This is because the tracker has taken less of a hit to its accuracy, which is the opposite of the intention.</p> <p dir="auto">Lets say, to use purely imaginary numbers, in a noisy world the tracker has 5% less accuracy, but an average system has 10% less accuracy. The difference has only grown. The average system is merely hurt. Naturally whether this occurs depends on many factors and depends on the tracker's ability to gain access to associating data (which it does in John's example).</p> <p dir="auto">In the context of John's example, the tracker does know you are the same person, or failing that can make a probabilistic guess with increased accuracy from tracked personal data. Thus the tracker can remove the noise to some extent or entirely, and the average cannot remove the noise at all. I fear this may apply to many other noise-based thwarting methods as well.</p> <p dir="auto">Does this clarify my concern?</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container has-reactions d-flex"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="N4w9nvvXYPzb5-a47J3HTlJ_GTFAEcwPplqXJJKYhkio06GjEWqffUa6iGHlEqT0D_uVxUWqkGZLxGOOjsFvRQ" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyNjAzNjkwOA=="> <input type="hidden" name="input[context]" value="" > <div class="js-comment-reactions-options d-flex 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</details> </div> <div class="d-none d-sm-flex"> <span aria-label="This user has been invited to collaborate on the floc repository." data-view-component="true" class="tooltipped tooltipped-n"> <span data-view-component="true" class="Label ml-1">Collaborator</span> </span> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/michaelkleber/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/michaelkleber">michaelkleber</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issuecomment-826093983" id="issuecomment-826093983-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-24T13:34:26Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 24, 2021</relative-time></a> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto">Thank you, <a class="user-mention notranslate" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/TheMaskMaker/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/TheMaskMaker">@TheMaskMaker</a>, good point and good explanation.</p> <p dir="auto">It seems to me that the concern you raise is even <em>more</em> of an issue in a setting <em>without</em> FLoC, where a "well-behaved" ad network has only contextual information, but one who performs some covert tracking gains a very large advantage by combining data across sites.</p> <p dir="auto">I do agree, though, that we want to minimize the advantage gap that you point out.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" 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</span> </summary> <details-menu class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-sw show-more-popover color-fg-default" style="width:185px" src="" preload > <span data-view-component="true"> <clipboard-copy aria-label="Copy link" for="issuecomment-826132956-permalink" role="menuitem" data-view-component="true" class="dropdown-item btn-link"> Copy link </clipboard-copy> <div aria-live="polite" aria-atomic="true" class="sr-only" data-clipboard-copy-feedback></div> </span> </details-menu> </details> </div> <div class="d-none d-sm-flex"> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/TheMaskMaker/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/TheMaskMaker">TheMaskMaker</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issuecomment-826132956" id="issuecomment-826132956-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-24T18:16:46Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 24, 2021</relative-time></a> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto"><a class="user-mention notranslate" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/michaelkleber/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/michaelkleber">@michaelkleber</a> Happy to help. Many publishers would be quite worried about receiving such noisy signals and I think it would do more harm than good. Also glad to see you care as much as I do, working on this on the weekend!</p> <p dir="auto">I do want to clarify though, <em>outside of a floc system</em>, the behavior I am describing can in fact be 'well behaved' depending on what the system is. It is important to separate floc's privacy definition from those of other proposals.</p> <p dir="auto">For example <em>in SWAN this behavior (or similar, still reading it over) is privacy-preserving and acceptable</em>, because SWAN has a very <strong>different definition of what constitutes privacy</strong>, and <strong>a different system of safeguards</strong>. So I don't think it is as much of a risk outside of floc, as long as the alternative system accounts for it.</p> <p dir="auto">In Floc, this goes against the floc <strong>definition of privacy</strong> and one proposed safeguard (noisy signals) I fear would worsen the floc-specific problem so I point it out quite emphatically, where in another proposal it might not be an issue at all.</p> <p dir="auto">It does get rather confusing to address each proposal from a different perspective, but of course I try to speak in each proposal with the definitions and morals of that particular proposal in mind!</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container d-none"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="FW5NkKMrAN_g_u-uxCjuXX5ikYfhcCU5PAbWnS5T24mKMdGtSZb_Xn2jgXfNp43nI-Ydc-TLeVDRmCI3MgoyhA" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyNjEzMjk1Ng=="> <input type="hidden" name="input[context]" value="" > <div class="js-comment-reactions-options d-flex flex-items-center flex-row flex-wrap"> <div class="js-reactions-container"> <details class="dropdown details-reset details-overlay d-inline-block js-all-reactions-popover" hidden> <summary aria-haspopup="true" data-view-component="true" class="Button--link Button--medium Button"> <span class="Button-content"> <span class="Button-label">All reactions</span> </span> </summary> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-se"> </ul> </details> </div> </div> </form></div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-comment-update" id="issuecomment-826132956-edit-form" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/826132956" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" data-csrf="true" name="authenticity_token" value="54toCRXuH+/Dpobl2YkEBURdYmDMWKy7odREWU/oI+KJE4aq4uuXhGxEHMkMremYoWKeDyHWfHtuxx/2+11P0Q==" /> <include-fragment loading="lazy" src="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/826132956/edit_form?textarea_id=issuecomment-826132956-body&comment_context=" class="previewable-comment-form js-comment-edit-form-deferred-include-fragment" > <p class="text-center mt-3" data-hide-on-error> <span data-view-component="true"> <svg aria-label="Loading..." style="box-sizing: content-box; 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I don't want to digress too far from your original issue, so lets say</p> <p dir="auto">let cohortCollectionForWebsiteA = [<br> "week01_2022" : "0666",<br> "week03_2022" : "A566",<br> "week04_2022" : "2111",<br> "week05_2022" : "1171",<br> "week07_2022" : "749B",<br> ]</p> <p dir="auto">let cohortCollectionForWebsiteB = [<br> "week01_2022" : "0666",<br> "week02_2022" : "0030",<br> "week05_2022" : "1171",<br> "week06_2022" : "7311",<br> "week07_2022" : "749B",<br> ]</p> <p dir="auto">If we make these signals 20% less reliable, than the website, or lets say flip 1/5 of the signals, I feel like it is a huge noise hit to the publisher that now must stack 20% error on top of their already imperfect analysis, and by adding a third or fourth site C,D you could easily reduce any data you miss because of the 20% noise?</p> <p dir="auto">What are your thoughts?</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" 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height="16" viewBox="0 0 16 16" version="1.1" width="16" data-view-component="true" class="octicon octicon-kebab-horizontal"> <path d="M8 9a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3ZM1.5 9a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Zm13 0a1.5 1.5 0 1 0 0-3 1.5 1.5 0 0 0 0 3Z"></path> </svg></span> </span> </summary> <details-menu class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-sw show-more-popover color-fg-default" style="width:185px" src="" preload > <span data-view-component="true"> <clipboard-copy aria-label="Copy link" for="issuecomment-826156970-permalink" role="menuitem" data-view-component="true" class="dropdown-item btn-link"> Copy link </clipboard-copy> <div aria-live="polite" aria-atomic="true" class="sr-only" data-clipboard-copy-feedback></div> </span> </details-menu> </details> </div> <div class="d-none d-sm-flex"> <span aria-label="This user has been invited to collaborate on the floc repository." data-view-component="true" class="tooltipped tooltipped-n"> <span data-view-component="true" class="Label ml-1">Collaborator</span> </span> </div> <h3 class="f5 text-normal" style="flex: 1 1 auto"> <div> <strong> <a class="author Link--primary text-bold css-overflow-wrap-anywhere " show_full_name="false" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/michaelkleber/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="/michaelkleber">michaelkleber</a> </strong> commented <a href="#issuecomment-826156970" id="issuecomment-826156970-permalink" class="Link--secondary js-timestamp"><relative-time datetime="2021-04-24T21:39:47Z" class="no-wrap">Apr 24, 2021</relative-time></a> </div> </h3> </div> <div class="edit-comment-hide"> <task-lists disabled sortable> <table class="d-block user-select-contain" data-paste-markdown-skip> <tbody class="d-block"> <tr class="d-block"> <td class="d-block comment-body markdown-body js-comment-body"> <p dir="auto"><a class="user-mention notranslate" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/TheMaskMaker/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/TheMaskMaker">@TheMaskMaker</a> Ah, I think there is an important reason that I don't think this is as worrisome as you do: when I talking about "adding noise" to FLoC, that does not necessarily mean making the underlying signal substantially less useful!</p> <p dir="auto">For example, in the way of calculating FLoC in Chrome's first Origin Trial, your cohort is some sort of LSH ("locality-sensitive hash") of the set of websites you've visited recently. A noised version could mean: When you go to site X, your cohort is the LSH of your true browsing history plus one randomly-chosen additional site Rx from the most popular 1000 in your country. When you go to site Y, the LSH input uses a different randomly-chosen additional site Ry, etc.</p> <p dir="auto">Now each FLoC is probably still reasonably good, as a targeting signal! After all, you wouldn't expect a person visiting a single additional popular site to completely change what you'd want to target with. But nevertheless this would probably make your FLoC different on different sites, to defeat the cross-site tracking threat that John started with.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container has-reactions d-flex"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="ItRmwB7wO1O7Zs3cWoQ8Q8KstWsFbV6icB57DbtyYcC9i_r99E3E0iY7owVTC1_5nyg5nwDWAsudgI-npyuIzQ" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" value="MDEyOklzc3VlQ29tbWVudDgyNjE1Njk3MA=="> <input type="hidden" name="input[context]" value="" > <div class="js-comment-reactions-options d-flex flex-items-center flex-row flex-wrap"> <button name="input[content]" id="reactions--reaction_button_component-b09b63" value="THUMBS_UP react" data-button-index-position="0" data-reaction-label="+1" data-reaction-content="+1" aria-pressed="false" aria-label="react with thumbs up" type="submit" disabled="disabled" data-view-component="true" class="social-reaction-summary-item js-reaction-group-button btn-link d-flex no-underline color-fg-muted flex-items-baseline mr-2"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji">👍</g-emoji> <span class="js-discussion-reaction-group-count">2</span> </button> <tool-tip id="tooltip-c1e1af59-84d5-434b-84f4-80061345ac8e" for="reactions--reaction_button_component-b09b63" popover="manual" data-direction="n" data-type="description" data-view-component="true" class="sr-only position-absolute">guiambros and SWodinsky reacted with thumbs up emoji</tool-tip> <div class="js-reactions-container"> <details class="dropdown details-reset details-overlay d-inline-block js-all-reactions-popover" hidden> <summary aria-haspopup="true" data-view-component="true" class="Button--link Button--medium Button"> <span class="Button-content"> <span class="Button-label">All reactions</span> </span> </summary> <ul class="dropdown-menu dropdown-menu-se"> <li class="dropdown-item" aria-label="guiambros and SWodinsky reacted with thumbs up emoji"> <g-emoji alias="+1" fallback-src="https://github.githubassets.com/assets/1f44d-41cb66fe1e22.png" class="social-button-emoji mr-2">👍</g-emoji> <span>2 reactions</span> </li> </ul> </details> </div> </div> </form></div> </div> </div> </div> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-comment-update" id="issuecomment-826156970-edit-form" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/826156970" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" data-csrf="true" name="authenticity_token" value="6cNihhAwA920VATG9cP7LkKbPcS5MmlN+vASAz24I/4SNRwS95ltv9Hb3cbDMekgnlGh1u5aV+w8EnY9vskwNQ==" /> <include-fragment loading="lazy" src="/WICG/floc/issue_comments/826156970/edit_form?textarea_id=issuecomment-826156970-body&comment_context=" class="previewable-comment-form js-comment-edit-form-deferred-include-fragment" > <p class="text-center mt-3" data-hide-on-error> <span data-view-component="true"> <svg aria-label="Loading..." style="box-sizing: content-box; 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Let me give you an example, and it will either reveal a misunderstanding on my part with flocs/cohorts or, if I understand correctly, help you to see my point about the threat with noise. I think this example will be useful in either event in explaining the problem.</p> <p dir="auto">Suppose systems A,B,C,D are collaborators in a floc world. They use outside tracking are work together. Meanwhile Website X does not.</p> <p dir="auto">A.com and B.com are websites and use login to recognize a user.<br> C-ware is a tablet OS and has an eye in any app installed on it linked to the owner's account. Its default browser can access flocs.<br> D-browser has a user account and so also can recognize the user, and sends browsing data home with its device sync functionality.</p> <p dir="auto">A,B,C,D have data sales not just in web advertising, but also to e-mail listings, snoop groups, improving their own products with data science, etc. Thus any floc data is valuable to them even outside of web adv, though of course it is useful for web adv as well.</p> <p dir="auto">We have 4 or more cooperating groups that can access the floc ID, recognize an individual, and send data to a server as per <a class="user-mention notranslate" data-hovercard-type="user" data-hovercard-url="/users/johnwilander/hovercard" data-octo-click="hovercard-link-click" data-octo-dimensions="link_type:self" href="https://github.com/johnwilander">@johnwilander</a> 's example, but with 2 more players.</p> <p dir="auto">Lets also assume, 2 different floc hash models to explore major possibilities.</p> <ol dir="auto"> <li></li> </ol> <p dir="auto">For the first 'experiment,' lets assume a very convergent hashing algorithm. This algorithm aggressively places users in very focused flocs based on major sites visited, so, a random site added would be unlikely to change the floc id. Lets say this occurs at a rate of 25%.</p> <p dir="auto">This model is very useful for publishers and advertisers because you can trust each floc to reliably represent interests. You can trust them to mean roughly the same thing over time. You can target campaigns to them.</p> <p dir="auto">The random site only changes the ID on System B. Now the trackers (A,B,C,D) get even more information! They can say with confidence what floc the user is normally a part of, and also know an additional floc they might belong to! They even have information on which site caused this change. This could open the door to even more information.</p> <p dir="auto">Meanwhile, the publishers lose a targeting opportunity 25% of the time, as the randomized flocs appear to irregularly for them to understand their value, unless they join the tracking system.</p> <ol start="2" dir="auto"> <li></li> </ol> <p dir="auto">In the second 'experiment' lets assume a very divergent algorithm. this algorithm severely alters floc id with small changes in site visit/interest. Lets say 75%.</p> <p dir="auto">Now there is a good chance A,B,C, and D all have different flocs for this user. But they don't care. They know the user is a member of these 3-4 flocs, and can correlate those flocs into a floc group. They now know these flocs represent similar interests (assuming the algorithm is not so divergent as to make them useless). They can now target to the floc group across the 2 websites and through any data sales opportunities presented to the OS and browser, and thus don't miss any targeting opportunities.</p> <p dir="auto">Meanwhile, the publisher that does not join the tracking group has a mess of random flocs, and only 25% appear on their 1 site often enough to be recognizable as useful. They lose 75% of targeting opportunities.</p> <hr> <p dir="auto">Even with this noise method you mention, I think the greater the noise, the more beneficial cross-site tracking is in floc, and the more work is done to use flocs as cross-site trackers.</p> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table> </task-lists> <div class="d-flex"> <div class="pr-review-reactions"> <div data-view-component="true" class="comment-reactions js-reactions-container js-reaction-buttons-container social-reactions reactions-container d-none"> <!-- '"` --><!-- </textarea></xmp> --></option></form><form class="js-pick-reaction" data-turbo="false" action="/WICG/floc/reactions" accept-charset="UTF-8" method="post"><input type="hidden" name="_method" value="put" autocomplete="off" /><input type="hidden" name="authenticity_token" value="Hdm0zX_J3KorlKDbqbvNh_l1b0gCJAUqUujPAEFiy5KChijwlXQjK7bJzgKgNK49pPHjvAefWUO_djuqXTsinw" autocomplete="off" /> <input type="hidden" name="input[subjectId]" 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