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id="talkheader" style="border-collapse: separate;"><tbody><tr> <td style="border-bottom: 1px solid #c0c090; font-weight: bold;">This is the <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_page_guidelines" title="Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines">talk page</a> for discussing improvements to the <a href="/wiki/Vowel_hiatus" title="Vowel hiatus">Vowel hiatus</a> article.<br> This is <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#FORUM" title="Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not">not a forum</a> for general discussion of the article's subject.</td> </tr> <tr> <td> <div class="talkheader-body"> <div class="talkheader-help"> <ul><li>Put new text under old text. <strong><a href="/wiki/Special:NewSection/Talk:Vowel_hiatus" title="Special:NewSection/Talk:Vowel hiatus">Click here to start a new topic.</a></strong></li> <li>New to Wikipedia? 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Force</a></b>.</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <div id="toc" class="toc" role="navigation" aria-labelledby="mw-toc-heading"><input type="checkbox" role="button" id="toctogglecheckbox" class="toctogglecheckbox" style="display:none"><div class="toctitle" lang="en" dir="ltr"><h2 id="mw-toc-heading">Contents</h2><span class="toctogglespan"><label class="toctogglelabel" for="toctogglecheckbox"></label></span></div> <ul> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-1"><a href="#Swahili"><span class="tocnumber">1</span> <span class="toctext">Swahili</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-2"><a href="#English"><span class="tocnumber">2</span> <span class="toctext">English</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-3"><a href="#definition"><span class="tocnumber">3</span> <span class="toctext">definition</span></a></li> <li class="toclevel-1 tocsection-4"><a href="#Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic"><span class="tocnumber">4</span> <span class="toctext">Treatment of aea in Hawaiian as polysyllabic</span></a></li> </ul> </div> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(1)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Swahili" data-mw-thread-id="h-Swahili-2008-02-03T14:11:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Swahili-2008-02-03T14:11:00.000Z"></span>Swahili<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Swahili-2008-02-03T14:11:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vowel_hiatus&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Swahili" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-12' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-129.237.215.146-2009-05-04T14:04:00.000Z-Swahili">15 years ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-1 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-1"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Orcoteuthis-2008-02-03T14:11:00.000Z-Swahili"></span>"One of the languages which demands hiatus is Swahili." What does this even mean? <small>—Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Orcoteuthis&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Orcoteuthis (page does not exist)">Orcoteuthis</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Orcoteuthis" title="User talk:Orcoteuthis">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Orcoteuthis" title="Special:Contributions/Orcoteuthis">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Orcoteuthis-2008-02-03T14:11:00.000Z-Swahili" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:11, 3 February 2008 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Orcoteuthis-2008-02-03T14:11:00.000Z-Swahili"><span id="ooui-php-1" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Orcoteuthis-2008-02-03T14:11:00.000Z-Swahili"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-129.237.215.146-2009-05-04T14:04:00.000Z-Swahili"></span>I hasn't studied Swahili, but it sounds like they don't avoid hiatus, which I suppose you could describe as demanding it, because it'd become contrastive, but even so that's kind of an odd way to put it. There's probably an upper limit on hiatus even if that is the case. <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/129.237.215.146" title="Special:Contributions/129.237.215.146">129.237.215.146</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:129.237.215.146&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:129.237.215.146 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-129.237.215.146-2009-05-04T14:04:00.000Z-Swahili" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:04, 4 May 2009 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-129.237.215.146-2009-05-04T14:04:00.000Z-Swahili"><span id="ooui-php-2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-129.237.215.146-2009-05-04T14:04:00.000Z-Swahili"></span> </p><p>I'd imagine it means that under some or all circumstances it must be present in a word or sentence <a href="/wiki/User:Pureferret" title="User:Pureferret">Pureferret</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pureferret" title="User talk:Pureferret">talk</a>) </p> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(2)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="English" data-mw-thread-id="h-English-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-English-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z"></span>English<span data-mw-comment-end="h-English-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vowel_hiatus&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: English" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-13' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-10T01:38:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z">13 years ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>6 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>4 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-2 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-2"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pureferret-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z-English"></span>Are there any examples from english? Without them I'm struggling to understand this article.<a href="/wiki/User:Pureferret" title="User:Pureferret">Pureferret</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pureferret" title="User talk:Pureferret">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Pureferret-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z-English" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:05, 8 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pureferret-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z-English"><span id="ooui-php-3" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pureferret-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z-English"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Akerbeltz-2011-05-08T11:52:00.000Z-Pureferret-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z"></span>If you read down to Diaresis... <a href="/wiki/User:Akerbeltz" title="User:Akerbeltz">Akerbeltz</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Akerbeltz" title="User talk:Akerbeltz">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Akerbeltz-2011-05-08T11:52:00.000Z-Pureferret-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:52, 8 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Akerbeltz-2011-05-08T11:52:00.000Z-Pureferret-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z"><span id="ooui-php-4" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Akerbeltz-2011-05-08T11:52:00.000Z-Pureferret-2011-05-08T06:05:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Angr-2011-05-09T19:56:00.000Z-Akerbeltz-2011-05-08T11:52:00.000Z"></span>Those aren't the only examples, though. Hiatus just means there are two vowels next to each other that aren't in the same syllable. Examples include <i>Bowie</i>, <i>freeing</i>, <i>chaos</i>, <i>museum</i>, and so on. <a href="/wiki/User:Angr" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Angr">—Angr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Angr" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Angr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Angr-2011-05-09T19:56:00.000Z-Akerbeltz-2011-05-08T11:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Angr-2011-05-09T19:56:00.000Z-Akerbeltz-2011-05-08T11:52:00.000Z"><span id="ooui-php-5" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Angr-2011-05-09T19:56:00.000Z-Akerbeltz-2011-05-08T11:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:36:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T19:56:00.000Z"></span>Those are a bit iffy, since the first vowel is a diphthong; you might analyze them as VGV rather than VV. For me, <i>co-operate</i> in the marked sense of operating together has hiatus, but normal <i>cooperate</i> doesn't. Hiatus without any intervening glide is rather difficult for most English speakers. — <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:36:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T19:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:36, 9 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:36:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T19:56:00.000Z"><span id="ooui-php-6" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:36:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T19:56:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:36:00.000Z"></span>How do you manage to have a diphthong in the first syllable of <i>Bowie</i> but not in the first syllable of <i>co-operate</i>? For me, if I'm going to put a secondary stress on the first syllable of <i>co-operate</i> to indicate that I really mean "operate together" rather than, y'know, "cooperate", then if anything I'm inclined to break the hiatus with a glottal stop: [ˌkoʊˈʔɑpəreɪt] vs. [koʊˈ(w)ɑpəreɪt]. Some examples with no diphthongs include "(oohing and) <i>aahing</i>", <i>baaing</i>, <i>drawing</i>; but these examples only work for people without <a href="/wiki/Intrusive_r" class="mw-redirect" title="Intrusive r">intrusive r</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Angr" class="mw-redirect" title="User:Angr">—Angr</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Angr" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Angr">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:36:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:36:00.000Z"><span id="ooui-php-7" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:36:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-10T01:38:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z"></span>The diff tween <i>Bowie</i> and <i>co-operate</i> is that I pronounce the first as a simple word, and the second as a compound, with the off-glide clearly in the first syllable only. But I doubt the distinction is robust. (Part of the problem of inventing examples.) You're right, <i>drawing</i> is unambiguous hiatus for me. Interesting that intrusive ar interrupts IMO the only true hiatus in my English. — <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-10T01:38:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:38, 10 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-10T01:38:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z"><span id="ooui-php-8" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-10T01:38:00.000Z-Angr-2011-05-09T20:53:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(3)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="definition" data-mw-thread-id="h-definition-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-definition-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z"></span>definition<span data-mw-comment-end="h-definition-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vowel_hiatus&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: definition" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-14' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Hrisse-2011-11-10T14:04:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z">13 years ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>2 comments</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>2 people in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-3 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-3"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z-definition"></span>Seems our definition is inconsistent with <a href="/wiki/Vowel_cluster" class="mw-redirect" title="Vowel cluster">vowel cluster</a>. By 'not in the same syllable', we mean 'diphthong', but at <i>vowel cluster</i> you can be in the same syllable and still be in hiatus. Or so it would seem. </p><p>Not sure about the Finnish example. — <a href="/wiki/User:Kwamikagami" title="User:Kwamikagami">kwami</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Kwamikagami" title="User talk:Kwamikagami">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z-definition" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:39, 9 May 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z-definition"><span id="ooui-php-9" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z-definition"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Hrisse-2011-11-10T14:04:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z"></span>I removed the example (<i>aie</i> pronounced as three syllables). <i>Ai</i> is usually a diphthong, and although I couldn't find a printed dictionary that would indicate syllabification, <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/aie" class="extiw" title="wikt:aie">wikt:aie</a> and <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/wikt:aie" class="extiw" title="fr:wikt:aie">fr:wikt:aie</a> seem to agree with my intuition that the normal pronunciation is <i>ai.e</i>. A similar word is also mentioned as an example in <a rel="nofollow" class="external autonumber" href="http://jultika.oulu.fi/Record/isbn978-951-42-8984-2">[1]</a> (p. 51): "There are also sequences of three and four vowels, decomposable into combinations of shorter sequences. For example, <i>ai.emmin</i> ‘earlier’, [...]" --<a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Hrisse&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Hrisse (page does not exist)">Hrisse</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Hrisse" title="User talk:Hrisse">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Hrisse-2011-11-10T14:04:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:04, 10 November 2011 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Hrisse-2011-11-10T14:04:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z"><span id="ooui-php-10" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"share","label":"Reply","flags":["progressive"],"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton"]}'><a role="button" tabindex="0" rel="nofollow" class="oo-ui-buttonElement-button"><span class="oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-share oo-ui-image-progressive"></span><span class="oo-ui-labelElement-label">Reply</span><span class="oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator oo-ui-image-progressive"></span></a></span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Hrisse-2011-11-10T14:04:00.000Z-Kwamikagami-2011-05-09T20:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> </section><div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section section-heading" onclick="mfTempOpenSection(4)"><span class="indicator mf-icon mf-icon-expand mf-icon--small"></span><h2 id="Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic" data-mw-thread-id="h-Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic-2014-04-16T01:16:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic-2014-04-16T01:16:00.000Z"></span>Treatment of aea in Hawaiian as polysyllabic<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic-2014-04-16T01:16:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"> <a role="button" href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vowel_hiatus&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Treatment of aea in Hawaiian as polysyllabic" class="cdx-button cdx-button--size-large cdx-button--fake-button cdx-button--fake-button--enabled cdx-button--icon-only cdx-button--weight-quiet "> <span class="minerva-icon minerva-icon--edit"></span> <span>edit</span> </a> </span> <span id='ooui-php-15' class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-buttonWidget' data-ooui='{"_":"OO.ui.ButtonMenuSelectWidget","rel":["nofollow"],"framed":false,"icon":"ellipsis","data":{"itemConfigs":[{"id":"edit","data":{"id":"edit"},"icon":"edit","label":"Edit"}],"resourceLoaderModules":[]},"classes":["ext-discussiontools-init-section-overflowMenuButton"]}'><a role='button' tabindex='0' rel='nofollow' class='oo-ui-buttonElement-button'><span class='oo-ui-iconElement-icon oo-ui-icon-ellipsis'></span><span class='oo-ui-labelElement-label'></span><span class='oo-ui-indicatorElement-indicator oo-ui-indicatorElement-noIndicator'></span></a></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-timestampLabel'>Latest comment: <a href="#c-Palakakau-2014-04-16T01:16:00.000Z-Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic">10 years ago</a></span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-commentCountLabel'>1 comment</span><span class='ext-discussiontools-init-section-metaitem ext-discussiontools-init-section-authorCountLabel'>1 person in discussion</span></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div><section class="mf-section-4 collapsible-block" id="mf-section-4"> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Palakakau-2014-04-16T01:16:00.000Z-Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic"></span>I have to disagree with the statement as this word and many others are pronounced without any hiatus between the letters. Being monosyllabic the initial a receives the stress and not the middle e. The ʻokina(Glottal Stop) is pronounce more like a hiatus in common speech then as most documents state the break between "OhOh!". Thus, for each letter to be pronounced without a w or y glide it would need to be written ʻaʻeʻa resulting in consonant-vowel pairs and would not be consider the same word. The same is true for the word Oia(O[w]i[y]a) the O receives the stress and not the i. This can be found in the well known song A Oia. </p><p>Something else to note is that in Hawaiian speech, sentences lack plus juncture between words so the only breaks occur with an ʻokina. In the sentence E hana au i ka ʻāina. Would be spoken Ehanaauika aaina with w and y glides between(a[w]u[w]i). It is the stress on the vowels that tell us where the different particles are. </p><p>Just my 2 cents <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Palakakau&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Palakakau (page does not exist)">Palakakau</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Palakakau&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:Palakakau (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Vowel_hiatus#c-Palakakau-2014-04-16T01:16:00.000Z-Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:16, 16 April 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Palakakau-2014-04-16T01:16:00.000Z-Treatment_of_aea_in_Hawaiian_as_polysyllabic"><span id="ooui-php-11" class="ext-discussiontools-init-replybutton oo-ui-widget oo-ui-widget-enabled oo-ui-buttonElement oo-ui-buttonElement-frameless oo-ui-iconElement oo-ui-labelElement oo-ui-flaggedElement-progressive oo-ui-buttonWidget" 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