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</head> <body class="ext-discussiontools-replytool-enabled ext-discussiontools-newtopictool-enabled ext-discussiontools-sourcemodetoolbar-enabled skin-vector-legacy mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-4 ns-subject mw-editable page-Wikidata_Property_proposal_reference_has_role rootpage-Wikidata_Property_proposal skin-vector action-view"><div id="mw-page-base" class="noprint"></div> <div id="mw-head-base" class="noprint"></div> <div id="content" class="mw-body" role="main"> <a id="top"></a> <div id="siteNotice"></div> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading"><span class="mw-page-title-namespace">Wikidata</span><span class="mw-page-title-separator">:</span><span class="mw-page-title-main">Property proposal/reference has role</span></h1> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body"> <div id="siteSub" class="noprint">From Wikidata</div> <div id="contentSub"><div id="mw-content-subtitle"><div class="subpages">< <bdi dir="ltr"><a href="/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal" title="Wikidata:Property proposal">Wikidata:Property proposal</a></bdi></div></div></div> <div id="contentSub2"></div> <div id="jump-to-nav"></div> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#mw-head">Jump to navigation</a> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#searchInput">Jump to search</a> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><div class="mw-content-ltr mw-parser-output" lang="en" dir="ltr"><div class="mw-heading mw-heading3"><h3 id="reference_has_role" data-mw-thread-id="h-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"></span><span id="reference_has_role"></span><span dir="ltr" lang="en">reference has role</span><span data-mw-comment-end="h-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"></span></h3><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: reference has role"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div><p> Originally proposed at <a href="/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/Generic" title="Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic">Wikidata:Property proposal/Generic</a></p><div class="property-navibox" dir="ltr"><style data-mw-deduplicate="TemplateStyles:r2262253935">.mw-parser-output .property-navibox{background:var(--background-color-progressive-subtle,#f1f4fd);border:3px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1)}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-header{background:var(--background-color-progressive-subtle,#f1f4fd);outline:3px solid var(--border-color-subtle,#c8ccd1);padding:4px}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links{float:right;margin:0}body.rtl .mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links{float:left}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li{display:inline;margin:0}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li:after{display:inline;content:" – "}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-links li:last-child:after{content:none}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main{overflow-x:auto}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox table{display:table;overflow-x:visible}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main tr{vertical-align:text-top}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox[dir="ltr"] .property-navibox-main th{padding-right:1em;text-align:left}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox[dir="rtl"] .property-navibox-main th{padding-left:1em;text-align:right}@media(max-width:720px){.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-header{display:flex;flex-direction:column-reverse}.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main>table>tbody>tr>td,.mw-parser-output .property-navibox-main>table>tbody>tr>th{display:block}}</style><div class="property-navibox-header"><ul class="property-navibox-links plainlinks"><li class="mw-empty-elt"></li></ul><div><span style="background-color:#0C0;"> </span> <span id="P6184"></span>Done: <a href="/wiki/Property:P6184" title="Property:P6184">reference has role</a> <small>(P6184)</small> (<a href="/wiki/Property_talk:P6184" title="Property talk:P6184">Talk and documentation</a>)</div></div><div class="property-navibox-main"><table><tbody><tr><th>Description</th><td><span dir="ltr" lang="en">role, or specific nature, of the given reference</span></td></tr><tr><th>Represents</th><td><a href="/wiki/Q121769" title="Q121769">reference <small>(Q121769)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Data type</th><td><a href="/wiki/Special:MyLanguage/Help:Data_type#wikibase-item" title="Special:MyLanguage/Help:Data type">Item</a></td></tr><tr><th>Domain</th><td>references</td></tr><tr><th>Allowed values</th><td>limited list of allowed values</td></tr><tr><th>Example</th><td>AS PART OF REFERENCE → <a href="/wiki/Q1361864" title="Q1361864">first valid description <small>(Q1361864)</small></a></td></tr><tr><th>Robot and gadget jobs</th><td>convert existing uses of P31 as a reference to use the new property</td></tr><tr><th>See also</th><td><a href="/wiki/Property:P2868" title="Property:P2868">subject has role <small dir="ltr">(P2868)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P3831" title="Property:P3831">object of statement has role <small dir="ltr">(P3831)</small></a>, <a href="/wiki/Property:P3865" title="Property:P3865">type of reference <small dir="ltr">(P3865)</small></a></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Motivation" data-mw-thread-id="h-Motivation-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Motivation-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"></span>Motivation<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Motivation-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Motivation"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z-Motivation"></span>We currently have about 50,000 cases where <a href="/wiki/Property:P31" title="Property:P31">instance of <small dir="ltr">(P31)</small></a> is used as a property in a reference, rather than as a main statement. See queries: <code>tinyurl.com/y78odkdu</code> (counts of values), <code>tinyurl.com/y8owabzc</code> (examples). The use on e.g. <a href="/wiki/Q101538#P225" title="Q101538">Q101538#P225</a> is typical. </p><p>In my opinion, use of P31 in this way is ugly and confusing -- IMO it would be better if P31 was only used for its main purpose, as a direct statement on an item giving its nature. </p><p>Use of P31-on-references is similar to the way P31 once used also to be used as a qualifier. But those uses have now everywhere been removed and replaced with <a href="/wiki/Property:P2868" title="Property:P2868">subject has role <small dir="ltr">(P2868)</small></a> and <a href="/wiki/Property:P3831" title="Property:P3831">object of statement has role <small dir="ltr">(P3831)</small></a>. </p><p>P31-on-references is currently doing some important work. In particular, the #1 value of P31-on-references, <a href="/wiki/Q1361864" title="Q1361864">first valid description <small>(Q1361864)</small></a>, to be able to indicate that the reference in question contained the first description and definition of a taxon is extremely valuable and important to be able to highlight for taxonomic references. </p><p>To me it therefore makes sense to propose a new drop-in replacement "reference has role" for P31-on-references, as a specific property to take over this function, which is different from the normal use of P31; and which would allow a constraint to limit acceptable values to an agreed controlled vocabulary. -- <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald">Jheald</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jheald" title="User talk:Jheald"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z-Motivation" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:30, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z-Motivation"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z-Motivation"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading4"><h4 id="Discussion" data-mw-thread-id="h-Discussion-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Discussion-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"></span>Discussion<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Discussion-reference_has_role-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z"></span></h4><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Discussion"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span></div> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>Proposed. <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald">Jheald</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jheald" title="User talk:Jheald"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:30, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:30:00.000Z-Discussion"></span></li></ul> <p><small><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z-Discussion"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/OOjs_UI_icon_error.svg/15px-OOjs_UI_icon_error.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/OOjs_UI_icon_error.svg/23px-OOjs_UI_icon_error.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/OOjs_UI_icon_error.svg/30px-OOjs_UI_icon_error.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="20" data-file-height="20"/></span></span> <i><b><a href="/wiki/Wikidata:WikiProject_Taxonomy/Participants" title="Wikidata:WikiProject Taxonomy/Participants">WikiProject Taxonomy</a> has more than 50 participants and <a href="https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T200350" class="extiw" title="phab:T200350">couldn't be pinged</a>. Please post on <a href="/wiki/Wikidata_talk:WikiProject_Taxonomy" title="Wikidata talk:WikiProject Taxonomy">the WikiProject's talk page</a> instead.</b></i> -- <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald">Jheald</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jheald" title="User talk:Jheald"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">14:56, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> </p> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Tom.Reding-2018-06-10T15:24:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b>. Appears to me, a relatively inexperienced Wikidata-er, to fill a niche role. If/when created, could <a href="/wiki/Property:P31" title="Property:P31">instance of <small dir="ltr">(P31)</small></a> be software-restricted from being placed in references, to avoid confusion & accidental placement? —<a href="/wiki/User:Tom.Reding" title="User:Tom.Reding">Tom.Reding</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Tom.Reding" title="User talk:Tom.Reding">talk</a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Tom.Reding-2018-06-10T15:24:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:24, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Tom.Reding-2018-06-10T15:24:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Tom.Reding-2018-06-10T15:24:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z-Tom.Reding-2018-06-10T15:24:00.000Z"></span>The software wouldn't completely prevent it, but it would register a constraint violation, and place a warning error sign next to it. <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald">Jheald</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jheald" title="User talk:Jheald"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z-Tom.Reding-2018-06-10T15:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:52, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z-Tom.Reding-2018-06-10T15:24:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z-Tom.Reding-2018-06-10T15:24:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brya-2018-06-10T17:12:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/23px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> <b>Comment</b> - This is not an isolated proposal: <a href="/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/taxon_described_in_publication" title="Wikidata:Property proposal/taxon described in publication">publication in which this scientific name was established</a> also deals with this issue, but proposes to move this to a statement. Since there are so many cases for this, and likely to become more, a separate property (making this a statement) seems well justified. The qualifier "first description (of a taxon) (Q1361864)," looks quite awkward to me (also wrong: it is the establishing of a name that matters here, not the description): if there are three references listed, will the software that reads in data be able to determine what reference this qualifier belongs to? A separate property would make this unnecessary. - <a href="/wiki/User:Brya" title="User:Brya">Brya</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brya" title="User talk:Brya"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Brya-2018-06-10T17:12:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:12, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brya-2018-06-10T17:12:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brya-2018-06-10T17:12:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z-Brya-2018-06-10T17:12:00.000Z"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Brya" title="User:Brya"><bdi>Brya</bdi></a>: I don't see the two proposals as necessarily in conflict. Firstly, there are other reasons why one might want to annotate a reference: establishing a taxon is only one example. Secondly, even if there was a separate statement for when the scientific statement was established, one might still want to note of a reference that it was the originating paper, or the statement that redefined the taxon, or some other notable thing about the paper. But it would be a good thing to get rid of the current P31s.</dd> <dd>As to your technical question, the annotation becomes part of the reference (as the present uses of P31 do). It is therefore uniquely associated with a single reference, just as much as the properties "stated in" or "volume" or "page" would be. There is no danger of crosstalk with any other reference. <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald">Jheald</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jheald" title="User talk:Jheald"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z-Brya-2018-06-10T17:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:52, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z-Brya-2018-06-10T17:12:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z-Brya-2018-06-10T17:12:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brya-2018-06-11T16:41:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z"></span>Yes, on this last point, I had realized that the danger of software reading it out wrong was quite limited. It will still be confusing to the reader. - <a href="/wiki/User:Brya" title="User:Brya">Brya</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brya" title="User talk:Brya"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Brya-2018-06-11T16:41:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:41, 11 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brya-2018-06-11T16:41:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brya-2018-06-11T16:41:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Succu-2018-06-25T19:10:00.000Z-Brya-2018-06-11T16:41:00.000Z"></span>Hi <a href="/wiki/User:Brya" title="User:Brya">Brya</a>, I think this proposal makes <a class="external text" href="https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3FtaxonName%20%3Fstate%20%3Fpublication%20%3Ftitle%20%7B%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20p%3AP225%20%3Fstatement%20.%0A%20%20%3Fstatement%20ps%3AP225%20%3FtaxonName%20.%0A%20%20%3Fstatement%20pq%3AP574%20%3Fdate%20.%0A%20%20%3Fstatement%20prov%3AwasDerivedFrom%20%3Frefnode%20.%0A%20%20%3Frefnode%20pr%3AP248%20%3Fref%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Frefnode%20pr%3AP304%20%3Fpage%20%7D%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Frefnode%20pr%3AP31%20%3Fstate_%7D%20%20%3Fref%20wdt%3AP1433%20wd%3AQ2003024%20.%0A%20%20%3Fref%20wdt%3AP478%20%3Fvolume%20.%0A%20%20%3Fref%20wdt%3AP433%20%3Fissue%20.%0A%20%20%3Fref%20wdt%3AP304%20%3Fpages_%20.%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fref%20wdt%3AP1476%20%3Ftitle%7D%20.%0A%20%20BIND%28if%28%21BOUND%28%3Fdate%29%2C%20%22%22%2C%20xsd%3Astring%28YEAR%28%3Fdate%29%29%29%20as%20%3Fyear%29%0A%20%20BIND%28if%28sameTerm%28%3Fstate_%2C%20wd%3AQ1361864%29%2C%20%22tax.%20nov.%22%2C%20if%28sameTerm%28%3Fstate_%2C%20wd%3AQ14594740%29%2C%20%22comb.%20nov.%22%2C%20if%28sameTerm%28%3Fstate_%2C%20wd%3AQ749462%29%2C%20%22nom.%20nov.%22%2C%20%22%22%29%29%29%20as%20%3Fstate%29%20%0A%20%20BIND%28CONCAT%28%22Taxon%20%22%2C%20CONCAT%28%3Fvolume%2C%20CONCAT%28%20%22%28%22%2CCONCAT%28%3Fissue%2C%20CONCAT%28%22%29%3A%20%22%2C%20CONCAT%28%3Fpage%2C%20CONCAT%28%22.%20%22%2C%20%3Fyear%29%29%29%29%29%29%29%20AS%20%3Fpublication%29%20%20%0A%20%20FILTER%28bound%28%3Fstate%29%29%0A%7D%0AORDER%20BY%20ASC%28%3FtaxonName%29">queries like that</a> a little bit more understandable. I'm not really happy with the creation of <a href="/w/index.php?title=Property:P5326&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Property:P5326 (page does not exist)">P5326 <small dir="ltr">(P5326)</small></a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Succu" title="User:Succu">Succu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Succu" title="User talk:Succu"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Succu-2018-06-25T19:10:00.000Z-Brya-2018-06-11T16:41:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:10, 25 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Succu-2018-06-25T19:10:00.000Z-Brya-2018-06-11T16:41:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Succu-2018-06-25T19:10:00.000Z-Brya-2018-06-11T16:41:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd> <dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Brya-2018-06-26T05:31:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z"></span>Hi Succu, I understand that switching to <a href="/w/index.php?title=Property:P5326&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="Property:P5326 (page does not exist)">P5326 <small dir="ltr">(P5326)</small></a> would involve a lot of edits (some fifty thousand items being involved). But there is an even larger number of items involved which don't yet have an original publication attached (much, much larger), so it is worth taking time to reconsider before taking on that larger number. Having a property like P5326 is much more user-friendly. - <a href="/wiki/User:Brya" title="User:Brya">Brya</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Brya" title="User talk:Brya"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Brya-2018-06-26T05:31:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">05:31, 26 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Brya-2018-06-26T05:31:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Brya-2018-06-26T05:31:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T19:52:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><s><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Deryck_Chan-2018-06-10T21:27:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b></s>. This is a needed addition to avoid ambiguity. It is a logical companion to <a href="/wiki/Property:P3831" title="Property:P3831">object of statement has role <small dir="ltr">(P3831)</small></a> and <a href="/wiki/Property:P5102" title="Property:P5102">nature of statement <small dir="ltr">(P5102)</small></a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Deryck_Chan" title="User:Deryck Chan">Deryck Chan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deryck_Chan" title="User talk:Deryck Chan"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Deryck_Chan-2018-06-10T21:27:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:27, 10 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Deryck_Chan-2018-06-10T21:27:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Deryck_Chan-2018-06-10T21:27:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Deryck_Chan-2018-07-02T12:05:00.000Z-Deryck_Chan-2018-06-10T21:27:00.000Z"></span>Moving to <span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Symbol_neutral_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_neutral_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Symbol_neutral_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_neutral_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Symbol_neutral_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_neutral_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Neutral</b> for now because of the competition with <a href="/wiki/Property:P3865" title="Property:P3865">type of reference <small dir="ltr">(P3865)</small></a> below. @<a href="/wiki/User:Succu" title="User:Succu"><bdi>Succu</bdi></a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald"><bdi>Jheald</bdi></a>: Will you please explain where you draw the boundary between this new property and <a href="/wiki/Property:P3865" title="Property:P3865">type of reference <small dir="ltr">(P3865)</small></a>? Which ones of the top 10 hits of <code>tinyurl.com/y78odkdu</code> do you intend to use with this new property? <a href="/wiki/User:Deryck_Chan" title="User:Deryck Chan">Deryck Chan</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Deryck_Chan" title="User talk:Deryck Chan"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Deryck_Chan-2018-07-02T12:05:00.000Z-Deryck_Chan-2018-06-10T21:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:05, 2 July 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Deryck_Chan-2018-07-02T12:05:00.000Z-Deryck_Chan-2018-06-10T21:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Deryck_Chan-2018-07-02T12:05:00.000Z-Deryck_Chan-2018-06-10T21:27:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><a class="external text" href="https://www.wikidata.org/w/index.php?title=Q14914936&diff=next&oldid=697797861"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Succu-2018-07-04T21:45:00.000Z-Deryck_Chan-2018-07-02T12:05:00.000Z"></span>This add</a> (made by <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald">Jheald</a>) would be a perfect usage of <a href="/wiki/Property:P3865" title="Property:P3865">type of reference <small dir="ltr">(P3865)</small></a>. For my concerns please see below (type <> role). --<a href="/wiki/User:Succu" title="User:Succu">Succu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Succu" title="User talk:Succu"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Succu-2018-07-04T21:45:00.000Z-Deryck_Chan-2018-07-02T12:05:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:45, 4 July 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Succu-2018-07-04T21:45:00.000Z-Deryck_Chan-2018-07-02T12:05:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Succu-2018-07-04T21:45:00.000Z-Deryck_Chan-2018-07-02T12:05:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jura1-2018-06-15T17:20:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/15px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/23px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Pictogram_voting_comment.svg/30px-Pictogram_voting_comment.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="250" data-file-height="250"/></span></span> <b>Comment</b> <a href="/wiki/Property:P3865" title="Property:P3865">type of reference <small dir="ltr">(P3865)</small></a> could work for this. <br/>--- <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jura1" title="User talk:Jura1">Jura</a> <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jura1-2018-06-15T17:20:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">17:20, 15 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jura1-2018-06-15T17:20:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jura1-2018-06-15T17:20:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span></li></ul> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Succu-2018-06-16T12:39:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b> I'm thinking about this for a while. --<a href="/wiki/User:Succu" title="User:Succu">Succu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Succu" title="User talk:Succu"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Succu-2018-06-16T12:39:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:39, 16 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Succu-2018-06-16T12:39:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Succu-2018-06-16T12:39:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jura1-2018-06-17T08:57:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Symbol_oppose_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_oppose_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Oppose</b> per above. <br/>--- <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jura1" title="User talk:Jura1">Jura</a> <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jura1-2018-06-17T08:57:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:57, 17 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jura1-2018-06-17T08:57:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jura1-2018-06-17T08:57:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-06-17T08:57:00.000Z"></span>There is a difference between type and role. For <a href="/wiki/Property:P3865" title="Property:P3865">type of reference <small dir="ltr">(P3865)</small></a> = <a href="/wiki/Q13442814" title="Q13442814">scholarly article <small>(Q13442814)</small></a> the role could be <a href="/wiki/Q1335348" title="Q1335348">emendation <small>(Q1335348)</small></a>. --<a href="/wiki/User:Succu" title="User:Succu">Succu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Succu" title="User talk:Succu"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-06-17T08:57:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:12, 18 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-06-17T08:57:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-06-17T08:57:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jura1-2018-06-19T06:27:00.000Z-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z"></span>I don't think there is a need for both. Type can be <a href="/wiki/Q1361864" title="Q1361864">first valid description <small>(Q1361864)</small></a>. <br/>--- <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jura1" title="User talk:Jura1">Jura</a> <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jura1-2018-06-19T06:27:00.000Z-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:27, 19 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jura1-2018-06-19T06:27:00.000Z-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jura1-2018-06-19T06:27:00.000Z-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><a href="/wiki/Q1361864" title="Q1361864"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Succu-2018-06-19T19:46:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-06-19T06:27:00.000Z"></span>first valid description <small>(Q1361864)</small></a> is not necessarily a subclass of <a href="/wiki/Q13442814" title="Q13442814">scholarly article <small>(Q13442814)</small></a>… --<a href="/wiki/User:Succu" title="User:Succu">Succu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Succu" title="User talk:Succu"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Succu-2018-06-19T19:46:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-06-19T06:27:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:46, 19 June 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Succu-2018-06-19T19:46:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-06-19T06:27:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Succu-2018-06-19T19:46:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-06-19T06:27:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jura1-2018-07-05T08:35:00.000Z-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z"></span>If that difference is needed, a specific item about the reference should be made instead. In general, I don't think that matters. <br/>--- <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jura1" title="User talk:Jura1">Jura</a> <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jura1-2018-07-05T08:35:00.000Z-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">08:35, 5 July 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jura1-2018-07-05T08:35:00.000Z-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jura1-2018-07-05T08:35:00.000Z-Succu-2018-06-18T10:12:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Succu-2018-07-05T20:26:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-07-05T08:35:00.000Z"></span>Sorry <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jura1" title="User talk:Jura1">Jura</a>, but I don't understand your remark. What „<i>specific item about the reference should be made</i>“ in the case of <a class="external text" href="https://query.wikidata.org/#SELECT%20%3Fitem%20%3Fname%20%3Fvolume%20%3Fpages%20WHERE%20%7B%0A%20%20VALUES%20%3Fsp%20%7Bwd%3AQ21856106%20wd%3AQ21856107%7D%20.%20%23%20Species%20Plantarum%2C%201st%20Ed.%2C%20Vol.%201%2B2%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP225%20%3Fname%20.%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20wdt%3AP105%20wd%3AQ7432%20.%0A%20%20%3Fitem%20p%3AP225%20%3FtaxonName%20.%0A%20%20%3FtaxonName%20ps%3AP225%20%3FtaxonNameValue%20.%0A%20%20%3FtaxonName%20pq%3AP405%20wd%3AQ1043.%0A%20%20%3FtaxonName%20prov%3AwasDerivedFrom%20%3Fref%20.%0A%20%20%3Fref%20pr%3AP248%20%3Fsp%20.%20%20%20%0A%20%20OPTIONAL%20%7B%3Fref%20pr%3AP304%20%3Fpages%7D%0A%20%20BIND%28if%28sameTerm%28%3Fsp%2C%20wd%3AQ21856106%29%2C%20%221%22%2C%20%222%22%29%20as%20%3Fvolume%29%0A%20%20BIND%28REPLACE%28%3Fpages%2C%20%22-%22%2C%20%22%E2%80%93%22%29%20AS%20%3Fpages%29%0A%20%20BIND%28REPLACE%28%3Fpages%2C%20%22%5C%5C%5B1230%5C%5C%5D%22%2C%20%221230%22%29%20AS%20%3Fpages%29%0A%20%20BIND%28REPLACE%28%3Fpages%2C%20%22%5C%5C%5B1231%5C%5C%5D%22%2C%20%221231%22%29%20AS%20%3Fpages%29%0A%20%20BIND%28if%28contains%28%3Fpages%2C%20%20%22%E2%80%93%22%29%2C%20strbefore%28%3Fpages%2C%20%22%E2%80%93%22%29%2C%20%3Fpages%29%20as%20%3Fstartpage%29%0A%20%20BIND%28if%28contains%28%3Fpages%2C%20%20%22%E2%80%93%22%29%2C%20strafter%28%3Fpages%2C%20%22%E2%80%93%22%29%2C%20%3Fpages%29%20as%20%3Fendpage%29%0A%7D%0AORDER%20BY%20ASC%28xsd%3Ainteger%28%3Fstartpage%29%29%20ASC%28%3Fname%29%0A%23ORDER%20BY%20ASC%28%3Fname%29%7C">Linnés book</a>? --<a href="/wiki/User:Succu" title="User:Succu">Succu</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Succu" title="User talk:Succu"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Succu-2018-07-05T20:26:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-07-05T08:35:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:26, 5 July 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Succu-2018-07-05T20:26:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-07-05T08:35:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Succu-2018-07-05T20:26:00.000Z-Jura1-2018-07-05T08:35:00.000Z"></span> <ul><li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jura1-2018-07-06T04:16:00.000Z-Succu-2018-07-05T20:26:00.000Z"></span>The work already has an item, so why would you want to use P3865 to described that it's nature? The question might arise if only "reference url", not "stated in" is present. <br/>--- <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jura1" title="User talk:Jura1">Jura</a> <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Jura1-2018-07-06T04:16:00.000Z-Succu-2018-07-05T20:26:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">04:16, 6 July 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jura1-2018-07-06T04:16:00.000Z-Succu-2018-07-05T20:26:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jura1-2018-07-06T04:16:00.000Z-Succu-2018-07-05T20:26:00.000Z"></span></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li> <li><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-ChristianKl-2018-11-07T21:04:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/15px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/23px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/94/Symbol_support_vote.svg/30px-Symbol_support_vote.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></span></span> <b>Support</b> In the sense that Succu proposed. I don't think it makes sense to automatically map the <a href="/wiki/Property:P31" title="Property:P31">instance of <small dir="ltr">(P31)</small></a> values to the new property as <a href="/wiki/Property:P3865" title="Property:P3865">type of reference <small dir="ltr">(P3865)</small></a> should often be nearer to that.</li></ul> <dl><dd><a href="/wiki/Q1361864" title="Q1361864">first valid description <small>(Q1361864)</small></a> seems to me qualitatively different from our existing usage of <a href="/wiki/Property:P3865" title="Property:P3865">type of reference <small dir="ltr">(P3865)</small></a>. <a href="/wiki/User:ChristianKl" title="User:ChristianKl"><font color="#0000EE"><b>ChristianKl</b></font></a> ❪<a href="/wiki/User_talk:ChristianKl" title="User talk:ChristianKl">✉</a>❫ <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-ChristianKl-2018-11-07T21:04:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">21:04, 7 November 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-ChristianKl-2018-11-07T21:04:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-ChristianKl-2018-11-07T21:04:00.000Z-Jheald-2018-06-10T14:56:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Pintoch-2018-11-27T06:36:00.000Z-Discussion"></span>@<a href="/wiki/User:Deryck_Chan" title="User:Deryck Chan"><bdi>Deryck Chan</bdi></a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Tom.Reding" title="User:Tom.Reding"><bdi>Tom.Reding</bdi></a>, <a href="/wiki/User:ChristianKl" title="User:ChristianKl"><bdi>ChristianKl</bdi></a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Brya" title="User:Brya"><bdi>Brya</bdi></a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Succu" title="User:Succu"><bdi>Succu</bdi></a>, <a href="/wiki/User:Jheald" title="User:Jheald"><bdi>Jheald</bdi></a>: @<a href="/wiki/User:Jura1" title="User:Jura1"><bdi>Jura1</bdi></a>: <span typeof="mw:File"><span title="✓"><img alt="✓" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/15px-Yes_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="15" height="15" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/23px-Yes_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Yes_check.svg/30px-Yes_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span><b> Done</b>: <a href="/wiki/Property:P6184" title="Property:P6184">reference has role <small dir="ltr">(P6184)</small></a>. − <a href="/wiki/User:Pintoch" title="User:Pintoch">Pintoch</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pintoch" title="User talk:Pintoch"><span class="signature-talk">talk</span></a>) <a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Property_proposal/reference_has_role#c-Pintoch-2018-11-27T06:36:00.000Z-Discussion" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:36, 27 November 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Pintoch-2018-11-27T06:36:00.000Z-Discussion"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Pintoch-2018-11-27T06:36:00.000Z-Discussion"></span> </p>    </div><noscript><img src="https://login.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAutoLogin/start?type=1x1&useformat=desktop" alt="" width="1" height="1" style="border: none; position: absolute;"></noscript> <div class="printfooter" data-nosnippet="">Retrieved from "<a dir="ltr" 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