David Boies | Academy of Achievement

<!doctype html> <html lang="en-US"> <head><script type="text/javascript" src="/_static/js/bundle-playback.js?v=HxkREWBo" charset="utf-8"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="/_static/js/wombat.js?v=txqj7nKC" charset="utf-8"></script> <script>window.RufflePlayer=window.RufflePlayer||{};window.RufflePlayer.config={"autoplay":"on","unmuteOverlay":"hidden"};</script> <script type="text/javascript" src="/_static/js/ruffle/ruffle.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript"> __wm.init("https://web.archive.org/web"); __wm.wombat("https://achievement.org/achiever/david-boies-2/","20200917235155","https://web.archive.org/","web","/_static/", "1600386715"); </script> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/_static/css/banner-styles.css?v=S1zqJCYt" /> <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="/_static/css/iconochive.css?v=3PDvdIFv" />  <meta charset="utf-8"> <meta http-equiv="x-ua-compatible" content="ie=edge"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width, initial-scale=1"> <link rel="apple-touch-icon-precomposed" sizes="57x57" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/apple-touch-icon-57x57.png"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon-precomposed" sizes="114x114" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/apple-touch-icon-114x114.png"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon-precomposed" sizes="72x72" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/apple-touch-icon-72x72.png"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon-precomposed" sizes="144x144" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/apple-touch-icon-144x144.png"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon-precomposed" sizes="60x60" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/apple-touch-icon-60x60.png"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon-precomposed" sizes="120x120" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/apple-touch-icon-120x120.png"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon-precomposed" sizes="76x76" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/apple-touch-icon-76x76.png"/> <link rel="apple-touch-icon-precomposed" sizes="152x152" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/apple-touch-icon-152x152.png"/> <link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/favicon-196x196.png" sizes="196x196"/> <link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/favicon-96x96.png" sizes="96x96"/> <link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/favicon-32x32.png" sizes="32x32"/> <link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/favicon-16x16.png" sizes="16x16"/> <link rel="icon" type="image/png" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/favicon-128.png" sizes="128x128"/> <meta name="application-name" content="Academy of Achievement"/> <meta name="msapplication-TileColor" content="#000000"/> <meta name="msapplication-TileImage" content="https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/mstile-144x144.png"/> <meta name="msapplication-square70x70logo" content="https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/mstile-70x70.png"/> <meta name="msapplication-square150x150logo" content="https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/mstile-150x150.png"/> <meta name="msapplication-wide310x150logo" content="https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/mstile-310x150.png"/> <meta name="msapplication-square310x310logo" content="https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/favicon/mstile-310x310.png"/> <link href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155cs_/https://fonts.googleapis.com/css?family=Source+Sans+Pro:400,600,400italic,600italic,700,700italic&display=swap" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css">  <title>David Boies | Academy of Achievement</title> <meta name="description" content="As a boy, raised in a farming community in rural Illinois, David Boies overcame a reading disability and graduated magna cum laude from Yale University Law School. He gained a reputation as one of the top litigators in the profession, praised as a "brilliant lawyer" and "mad genius" for his courtroom arguments in high-profile cases. He represented CBS in a libel action brought by General William Westmoreland, defended IBM in 13 antitrust cases brought by the U.S. Justice Department, and appeared for the Department in its case against Microsoft, winning at trial and on appeal. A former counsel to the U.S. Senate Antitrust Subcommittee and to the Senate Judiciary Committee, he represented U.S. Vice President Albert Gore before the Supreme Court in the historic case Bush v. Gore (2000). That year, Time聽magazine named him "Lawyer of the Year." Theodore Olson, the opposing counsel in Bush v. Gore, joined forces with Boies to challenge California's Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage. The unlikely team prevailed in Federal District Court, on appeal, and before the U.S. Supreme Court in Hollingsworth v. Perry. Today, David Boies chairs the law firm Boies, Schiller & Flexner, representing the most dynamic companies in American business, including American Express, Apple and Oracle. He is a leading philanthropist who has endowed chairs at law schools across the country as well as a center for the study of dyslexia at Yale University."/> <meta name="robots" content="index, follow"/> <meta name="googlebot" content="index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1"/> <meta name="bingbot" content="index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1"/> <link rel="canonical" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-boies-2/"/> <meta property="og:locale" content="en_US"/> <meta property="og:type" content="article"/> <meta property="og:title" content="David Boies | Academy of Achievement"/> <meta property="og:description" content="<p class="inputTextFirst">As a boy, raised in a farming community in rural Illinois, David Boies overcame a reading disability and graduated <i>magna cum laude</i> from Yale University Law School. He gained a reputation as one of the top litigators in the profession, praised as a "brilliant lawyer" and "mad genius" for his courtroom arguments in high-profile cases. He represented CBS in a libel action brought by General William Westmoreland, defended IBM in 13 antitrust cases brought by the U.S. Justice Department, and appeared for the Department in its case against Microsoft, winning at trial and on appeal.</p> <p class="inputText">A former counsel to the U.S. Senate Antitrust Subcommittee and to the Senate Judiciary Committee, he represented U.S. Vice President Albert Gore before the Supreme Court in the historic case <i>Bush v. Gore</i> (2000). That year, <i>Time</i>聽magazine named him "Lawyer of the Year." Theodore Olson, the opposing counsel in <i>Bush v. Gore</i>, joined forces with Boies to challenge California's Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage. The unlikely team prevailed in Federal District Court, on appeal, and before the U.S. Supreme Court in <i>Hollingsworth v. Perry</i>.</p> <p class="inputText">Today, David Boies chairs the law firm Boies, Schiller & Flexner, representing the most dynamic companies in American business, including American Express, Apple and Oracle. He is a leading philanthropist who has endowed chairs at law schools across the country as well as a center for the study of dyslexia at Yale University.</p>"/> <meta property="og:url" content="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-boies-2/"/> <meta property="og:site_name" content="Academy of Achievement"/> <meta property="article:modified_time" content="2016-12-19T15:46:15+00:00"/> <meta property="og:image" content="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/boise-Feature-Image.jpg"/> <meta property="og:image:width" content="2800"/> <meta property="og:image:height" content="1120"/> <meta name="twitter:card" content="summary"/> <meta name="twitter:creator" content="@achievers1961"/> <meta name="twitter:site" content="@achievers1961"/> <script type="application/ld+json" class="yoast-schema-graph">{"@context":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/#organization","name":"Academy of Achievement","url":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/","sameAs":["https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://www.linkedin.com/company/american-academy-of-achievement","https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChe_87uh1H-NIMf3ndTjPFw","https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_Achievement","https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://twitter.com/achievers1961"],"logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/#logo","inLanguage":"en-US","url":"/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/12.png","width":1200,"height":630,"caption":"Academy of Achievement"},"image":{"@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/#logo"}},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/#website","url":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/","name":"Academy of Achievement","description":"A museum of living history","publisher":{"@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/search/{search_term_string}","query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"ImageObject","@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-boies-2/#primaryimage","inLanguage":"en-US","url":"/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/boise-Feature-Image.jpg","width":2800,"height":1120,"caption":"David Boies"},{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-boies-2/#webpage","url":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-boies-2/","name":"David Boies | Academy of Achievement","isPartOf":{"@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/#website"},"primaryImageOfPage":{"@id":"https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-boies-2/#primaryimage"},"datePublished":"2016-03-25T15:21:29+00:00","dateModified":"2016-12-19T15:46:15+00:00","description":"As a boy, raised in a farming community in rural Illinois, David Boies overcame a reading disability and graduated magna cum laude from Yale University Law School. 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role="document"> <div class="content"> <main class="main"> <div class="feature-area__container"> <header class="feature-area feature-area--has-image ratio-container ratio-container--feature"> <figure class="feature-box"> <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image feature-area__image" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/boise-Feature-Image.jpg [(max-width:544px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/02/boise-Feature-Image-1400x560.jpg [(max-width:992px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/02/boise-Feature-Image.jpg"></div> <div class="display--table"> <div class="display--table-cell"> <figcaption class="feature-area__text ratio-container__text container"> <div class="feature-area__text-inner text-white"> <h2 class="serif-8 feature-area__text-subhead back"><a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever">All achievers</a></h2> <h1 class="serif-1 entry-title feature-area__text-headline">David Boies</h1> <h5 class="sans-6 feature-area__blurb">Counselor and Human Rights Advocate</h5> </div> </figcaption> </div> </div> </figure> </header> </div>  <nav class="in-page-nav row fixedsticky"> <ul class="nav text-xs-center clearfix" role="tablist"> <li class="nav-item col-xs-3"> <a class="nav-link active" data-toggle="tab" href="#biography" role="tab" data-gtm-category="tab" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever Biography">Biography</a> </li> <li class="nav-item col-xs-3"> <a class="nav-link" data-toggle="tab" href="#profile" role="tab" data-gtm-category="tab" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever Profile">Profile</a> </li> <li class="nav-item col-xs-3"> <a class="nav-link" data-toggle="tab" href="#interview" role="tab" data-gtm-category="tab" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever Interview">Interview</a> </li> <li class="nav-item col-xs-3"> <a class="nav-link" data-toggle="tab" href="#gallery" role="tab" data-gtm-category="tab" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever Gallery">Gallery</a> </li> </ul> </nav> <article class="post-2005 achiever type-achiever status-publish has-post-thumbnail hentry careers-attorney"> <div class="entry-content container clearfix">  <div class="tab-content"> <div class="tab-pane active" id="biography" role="tabpanel"> <section class="achiever--biography"> <div class="row"> <header class="editorial-article__header col-md-8 col-md-offset-2 text-xs-center"> <i class="icon-icon_bio text-brand-primary"></i> <h3 class="serif-3 quote-marks">A trial is essentially a morality play. You've got to have a narrative.</h3> </header> </div> <div class="row"> <aside class="col-md-4 sidebar clearfix"> <h2 class="serif-3 p-b-1">Making History in the Courtroom</h2> <div class="col-xs-12 sidebar--chunk p-b-2"> <dt class="serif-7">Date of Birth</dt> <dd class="sans-2"> March 11, 1941 </dd> </div> </aside> <article class="editorial-article col-md-8"> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/loose.dtd"> <html><body data-rsssl="1"><p class="inputTextFirst">David Boies was born in Sycamore, Illinois, and spent the first ten years of his life in the countryside. Both parents were school teachers, and he recalls being inspired by his father’s passion for American history.</p> <p class="inputText">In his first years of school, he had difficulty learning to read, a condition he now recognizes as dyslexia, although the term was unknown at the time. He excelled at other aspects of his studies, and cultivated his capacity for memorization, enabling him to compensate for his disability.</p> <p class="inputText">When he was 11 years old, the family moved to Fullerton, California, where he graduated from Fullerton University High School. He enrolled at the University of Redlands, where he completed three academic years in two. He credits reading the Perry Mason novels as a youngster with first inspiring him to become a courtroom attorney. He took the Law School Admissions Test while still in his first semester at college. He won admission to Northwestern University Law School; midway through his program at Northwestern he transferred to Yale Law. At Yale, he concentrated on antitrust law, and graduated second in his class.</p> <table border="0" align="right"> <tbody> <tr> <td><a name="boi0-010a.gif"></a></td> </tr> </tbody> </table> <figure id="attachment_2429" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2429" style="width: 2280px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><noscript><img class="wp-image-2429 size-full " src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-010.jpg"></noscript><img loading="lazy" class="wp-image-2429 size-full lazyload" alt="David Boies is surrounded by news cameras as he arrives at U.S. District Court in New York City in 1984. Boies was representing CBS in a $120 million libel suit filed by Gen. William Westmoreland. (AP Photo/David Handschuh)" width="2280" height="1484" data-sizes="(max-width: 2280px) 100vw, 2280px" data-srcset="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-010.jpg 2280w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-010-380x247.jpg 380w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-010-760x495.jpg 760w" data-src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-010.jpg"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-2429" class="wp-caption-text">David Boies is surrounded by news cameras as he arrives at U.S. District Court in New York City in 1984. Boies was representing CBS in a $120 million libel suit filed by General William Westmoreland. (AP Photo/David Handschuh)</figcaption></figure> <p>He joined the firm of Cravath, Swaine & Moore in New York City, where he defended IBM in a series of antitrust cases brought by the Justice Department and many private competitors. He earned a reputation as a formidable litigator and became a partner of the firm in 1972, two years ahead of schedule. He was 31.</p> <p class="inputText">Boies put his expertise in antitrust law at the service of the United States Senate in 1978 as Chief Counsel and Staff Director of the United States Senate Antitrust Subcommittee. The following year, he served as Chief Counsel and Staff Director of the Senate Judiciary Committee. While in Washington, he met Mary McInnis, an attorney working in the White House of President Jimmy Carter. The couple returned to New York, married and started a family.</p> <p class="inputText">In 1982, Boies became involved in one of the most heavily reported civil cases of the era, <i>Westmoreland v. CBS</i>. A CBS documentary, <i>The Uncounted Enemy: A Vietnam Deception</i>, had asserted that General William Westmoreland, commander of U.S. forces in the Vietnam War, had deliberately underrepresented the enemy’s troop strength to preserve political support for the war effort. General Westmoreland sued CBS television and its correspondent Mike Wallace for libel. David Boies represented CBS, and his masterful cross-examination of the plaintiff’s witnesses, including the General himself, so impressed the jury that the General agreed to dismiss the case without payment, retraction or apology. Each side issued a conciliatory statement and paid its own legal expenses.</p> <figure id="attachment_2420" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2420" style="width: 2048px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><noscript><img class="wp-image-2420 size-full " src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-001.jpg"></noscript><img loading="lazy" class="wp-image-2420 size-full lazyload" alt="David Boies, attorney for Vice President Al Gore, speaks outside of the U.S. Supreme Court in December 11, 2000 as the Court considers the case of Bush v. Gore. The Court's judgment in this case effectively decided the outcome of the 2000 presidential election. (? Reuters/CORBIS)" width="2048" height="1651" data-sizes="(max-width: 2048px) 100vw, 2048px" data-srcset="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-001.jpg 2048w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-001-380x306.jpg 380w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-001-760x613.jpg 760w" data-src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-001.jpg"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-2420" class="wp-caption-text">David Boies, attorney for Vice President Al Gore, speaks outside of the U.S. Supreme Court on December 11, 2000, as the Court considers the case of <em>Bush v. Gore</em>. The Court’s judgment decided the outcome of the 2000 election.</figcaption></figure> <p>Boies defended CBS again in its successful attempt to resist a takeover attempt by Ted Turner. These and other cases further burnished Boies’s growing reputation as a litigator. While his courtroom exploits attracted increasing coverage from the national press, the attention paid to Boies personally contributed to friction between Boies and some of his colleagues at Cravath, Swaine & Moore. Matters came to a head in 1997, when Boies agreed to represent New York Yankees owner George Steinbrenner in a dispute against the other teams of Major League Baseball. Time Warner, a longtime Cravath client, was also the owner of the Atlanta Braves and objected to Boies’s participation in the Yankees’ suit. Boies’s decision to leave Cravath, Swaine & Moore after 30 years made the front page of <em>The New York Times</em>.</p> <p class="inputText">Shortly after leaving Cravath, Boies founded a new firm with a Washington-based lawyer, Jonathan Schiller, and the firm grew rapidly. Meanwhile, a case was brewing that returned Boies to his original area of expertise, antitrust law.</p> <p class="inputText">In the 1990s, Microsoft enjoyed a virtual monopoly in the personal computer marketplace with its Windows operating system. As consumers increasingly used their personal computers to explore the Internet, upstart companies like Netscape were supplying the needed software. The U.S. Justice Department saw Microsoft attempting to suppress competition in the browser market by bundling its own Explorer browser with Windows, and manipulating the operating system to make it incompatible with competitors’ products. The Justice Department sought Boies’s assistance in the case. At the time of the antitrust suit, Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was not only one of the most admired leaders in American business, he was believed to be the richest man in the world.</p> <figure id="attachment_2430" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2430" style="width: 833px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><noscript><img class="wp-image-2430 size-full " src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-011.jpg"></noscript><img loading="lazy" class="wp-image-2430 size-full lazyload" alt="David Boies, at home in the courtroom in 2000. TIME magazine featured him as its "Lawyer of the Year," in large part for his role in the Justice Department's antitrust case against Microsoft. (? Brian Smith/Corbis)" width="833" height="1031" data-sizes="(max-width: 833px) 100vw, 833px" data-srcset="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-011.jpg 833w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-011-307x380.jpg 307w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-011-614x760.jpg 614w" data-src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-011.jpg"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-2430" class="wp-caption-text">David Boies, at home in the courtroom in 2000. <em>Time</em> magazine featured him as its “Lawyer of the Year,” in large part for his role in the United States Justice Department’s antitrust case against Microsoft. (© Brian Smith/Corbis)</figcaption></figure> <p>Microsoft’s counsel enjoyed an almost limitless budget to conduct its defense, while the government could only pay Boies and his firm a fraction of the rate he charged his corporate clients. Despite Microsoft’s vast resources, Gates and his colleagues could not stand up to Boies’s cross-examination. The trial judge found that Microsoft had created a monopoly in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act, and ordered that the company be broken up, so that its operating system could be produced by an entity separate from that of its other software products. The appeals court overturned the judge’s ruling but did not dispute the facts of the case and ordered a lower court to reconsider and devise a different remedy. Meanwhile, the Department of Justice and Microsoft reached a settlement, requiring Microsoft to make its application programming interfaces available to third-party developers.</p> <p class="inputText">While the Microsoft case worked its way through the courts, Boies took on a case that will be studied and debated for years to come. The outcome of the 2000 presidential election hinged on the results in the State of Florida. The Florida Division of Elections reported that Governor George W. Bush of Texas had won the election by a narrow margin, less than 0.5 percent of the votes cast, triggering an automatic machine recount. When an incomplete machine recount reduced Governor Bush’s margin of victory still further, the Florida Supreme Court ordered a statewide manual recount. The Florida legislature opposed the State Supreme Court’s decision, and the matter was referred to the United States Supreme Court. Partisan sentiment colored every step of the controversy. The legislature, controlled by Republicans, supported the claim of Governor Bush, a Republican. The Florida Supreme Court, dominated by Democratic appointees, ordered the recount requested by the Democratic candidate, Vice President Al Gore.</p> <figure id="attachment_2428" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2428" style="width: 2000px" class="wp-caption aligncenter"><noscript><img class="wp-image-2428 size-full " src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-009.jpg"></noscript><img loading="lazy" class="wp-image-2428 size-full lazyload" alt="Attorney David Boies celebrates with his clients after the Supreme Court overturned California's ban on same-sex marriage in 2013. From L to R: Jeff Zarrillo and his partner Paul Katami; David Boies; Sandy Stier and her partner Kris Perry. (? J. Scott Applewhite/ /AP/Corbis)" width="2000" height="1557" data-sizes="(max-width: 2000px) 100vw, 2000px" data-srcset="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-009.jpg 2000w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-009-380x296.jpg 380w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-009-760x592.jpg 760w" data-src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-009.jpg"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-2428" class="wp-caption-text">Plaintiffs in <em>Hollingsworth v. Perry</em>, the California Proposition 8 case, react on the steps of the Supreme Court in Washington, June 26, 2013, after Justices cleared the way for the resumption of same-sex marriage in California: Jeff Zarrillo and his partner, Paul Katami, attorney David Boies, and Sandy Stier and her partner, Kris Perry. (AP)</figcaption></figure> <p>Prior to hearing the case, the Supreme Court voted five to four to stop the recount ordered by the Florida Court. The Court heard oral arguments in <i>Bush v. Gore</i> on December 11, 2000. Governor Bush’s campaign was represented by attorney Theodore Olson. David Boies represented the campaign of Vice President Al Gore. Typically, the Court considers a case for several months after oral argument, but due to the urgency of resolving the presidential election, the Court issued its finding the following day. Voting five to four once again, it ordered a stop to the recount, effectively leaving the state legislature free to award the state’s 25 electors to Governor Bush, giving him the minimum of 271 votes in the Electoral College needed to win the presidency.</p> <p class="inputText">Inevitably, observers noted that the five Justices voting to stop the recount were appointed by Republican presidents. Of the four dissenting Justices, two were appointed by a Democratic president, two by Republicans. Although Boies was disappointed by the outcome of the case, a rare defeat in his career, he was impressed by the collegiality of the process, and particularly by the skill of the opposing counsel, Theodore Olson.</p> <figure id="attachment_2423" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2423" style="width: 2280px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><noscript><img class="wp-image-2423 size-full " src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-004.jpg"></noscript><img loading="lazy" class="wp-image-2423 size-full lazyload" alt="Attorney David Boies recalls his side of the story as former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson looks on at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (? Academy of Achievement)" width="2280" height="1518" data-sizes="(max-width: 2280px) 100vw, 2280px" data-srcset="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-004.jpg 2280w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-004-380x253.jpg 380w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-004-760x506.jpg 760w" data-src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-004.jpg"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-2423" class="wp-caption-text">David Boies discusses his efforts to overturn the State of California’s Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage, along with co-counsel, former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson, during the 2014 Achievement Summit in San Francisco.</figcaption></figure> <p class="inputText">In 2009, Boies and Olson joined forces to overturn the State of California’s Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage. The District Court judge ruled in their clients’ favor, finding Proposition 8 to be unconstitutional. In 2013, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in <i>Perry v. Hollingsworth </i>that the proponents of Proposition 8 did not have standing to challenge the ruling, allowing the District Court judgment to stand, and same-sex marriages resumed in California. Boies and Olson told the story of the case from their point of view in their 2014 book, <i>Redeeming the Dream</i>. The Supreme Court struck down bans on gay marriage in the remaining states in <i>Obergefell v. Hodges</i>, in 2015.</p> <figure id="attachment_2421" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2421" style="width: 2280px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><noscript><img class="wp-image-2421 size-full " src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-002.jpg"></noscript><img loading="lazy" class="wp-image-2421 size-full lazyload" alt="ACLU Director Anthony Romero presents David Boies with the Golden Plate Award of the Academy of Achievement at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (? Academy of Achievement)" width="2280" height="1824" data-sizes="(max-width: 2280px) 100vw, 2280px" data-srcset="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-002.jpg 2280w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-002-380x304.jpg 380w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-002-760x608.jpg 760w" data-src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-002.jpg"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-2421" class="wp-caption-text">ACLU Director and Council member Anthony Romero presents David Boies with the Golden Plate Award of the American Academy of Achievement at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco, California.</figcaption></figure> <p>David Boies continues to chair his law firm Boies, Schiller and Flexner, LLP, with over 200 attorneys in offices across the country. His clients include Altria, American Express, Apple, Barclays, CBS, DuPont, HSBC, NASCAR, The New York Yankees, Oracle, Sony, Theranos and The Weinstein Company.</p> <p class="inputText">David and Mary Boies make their home in Armonk, New York. In addition to his law practice, David Boies enjoys ocean sailing and owns the Hawk and Horse Vineyards in Northern California. Among their many benefactions to education, David and Mary Boies have endowed chairs at the University of Redlands, the University of Pennsylvania, Tulane University Law School, and Yale Law School. They also fund a Mary and David Boies Fellowship for foreign students at the Harvard Kennedy School. Overseas, they support the Central European and Eurasian Law Institute (CEELI), a Prague-based institute that trains judges from newly democratized countries in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Close to home, they donated $5 million to build a new emergency room at Northern Westchester Hospital, in Mount Kisco, New York, and host an annual picnic for hundreds of incoming Teach for America volunteers. David Boies currently serves on the Board of Trustees of the National Constitution Center in Philadelphia, a museum dedicated to the U.S. Constitution.</p> </body></html> <div class="clearfix"> </div> </article> </div> </section> </div> <div class="tab-pane" id="profile" role="tabpanel"> <section class="clearfix"> <header class="editorial-article__header"> <figure class="text-xs-center"> <img class="inductee-badge" src="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/themes/aoa/assets/images/inducted-badge@2x.png" alt="Inducted Badge" width="120" height="120"/> <figcaption class="serif-3 text-brand-primary"> Inducted in 2014 </figcaption> </figure> </header> <div class="row"> <aside class="col-md-4 sidebar"> <dl class="clearfix m-b-0"> <div class="col-xs-12 sidebar--chunk p-b-2"> <dt class="serif-7">Career</dt> <dd class="sans-2"> <div><a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/#filter=.attorney">Attorney</a></div> </dd> </div> <div class="col-xs-12 sidebar--chunk p-b-2"> <dt class="serif-7">Date of Birth</dt> <dd class="sans-2"> March 11, 1941 </dd> </div> </dl> </aside> <article class="col-md-8 editorial-article clearfix"> <p class="inputTextFirst">As a boy, raised in a farming community in rural Illinois, David Boies overcame a reading disability and graduated <i>magna cum laude</i> from Yale University Law School. He gained a reputation as one of the top litigators in the profession, praised as a “brilliant lawyer” and “mad genius” for his courtroom arguments in high-profile cases. He represented CBS in a libel action brought by General William Westmoreland, defended IBM in 13 antitrust cases brought by the U.S. Justice Department, and appeared for the Department in its case against Microsoft, winning at trial and on appeal.</p> <p class="inputText">A former counsel to the U.S. Senate Antitrust Subcommittee and to the Senate Judiciary Committee, he represented U.S. Vice President Albert Gore before the Supreme Court in the historic case <i>Bush v. Gore</i> (2000). That year, <i>Time</i>聽magazine named him “Lawyer of the Year.” Theodore Olson, the opposing counsel in <i>Bush v. Gore</i>, joined forces with Boies to challenge California’s Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage. The unlikely team prevailed in Federal District Court, on appeal, and before the U.S. Supreme Court in <i>Hollingsworth v. Perry</i>.</p> <p class="inputText">Today, David Boies chairs the law firm Boies, Schiller & Flexner, representing the most dynamic companies in American business, including American Express, Apple and Oracle. He is a leading philanthropist who has endowed chairs at law schools across the country as well as a center for the study of dyslexia at Yale University.</p> </article> </div> </section> </div> <div class="tab-pane" id="interview" role="tabpanel"> <section class="clearfix"> <div class="col-md-12 interview-feature-video"> <figure> <div class="embed-responsive embed-responsive-16by9"> <iframe class="embed-responsive-item embed-responsive--has-thumbnail" width="200" height="150" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155if_/https://www.youtube.com/embed/f-UR4Jv9Jj0?feature=oembed&hd=1&modestbranding=1&rel=0&start=0&end=3226&version=3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <div class="embed-responsive__thumbnail ratio-container__image lazyload" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Boies-David-2014-MasterEdit.00_46_58_15.Still012-2-380x214.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Boies-David-2014-MasterEdit.00_46_58_15.Still012-2-760x428.jpg"></div> <div class="video-tag sans-4"> <i class="embed-responsive__play icon-icon_play-full text-brand-primary"></i> <div class="video-tag__text">Watch full interview</div> </div> </div> </figure> </div> <header class="col-md-12 text-xs-center m-b-2"> <i class="icon-icon_bio text-brand-primary"></i> </header> <aside class="col-md-4 sidebar"> <h2 class="serif-3 achiever--biography-subtitle">Making History in the Courtroom</h2> <div class="sans-2">San Francisco, California</div> <div class="sans-2">September 14, 2014</div> </aside> <article class="editorial-article col-md-8">   <div class="achiever__interview-copy"> <p class="p1"><strong>You’ve said that if you couldn’t have been a lawyer you would have enjoyed teaching American history like your father. But some of your cases have put you in the middle of history in the making. Could you tell us about <i>Bush v. Gore</i>? That was the Supreme Court case that ultimately decided the 2000 presidential election.</strong><b></b></p> </div>     <div class="achiever__video-block"> <figure class="achiever__interview-video"> <div class="embed-responsive embed-responsive-16by9"> <iframe class="embed-responsive-item embed-responsive--has-thumbnail" width="200" height="150" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155if_/https://www.youtube.com/embed/GOXPUC3ppCg?feature=oembed&hd=1&modestbranding=1&rel=0&start=0&end=110&version=3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <div class="embed-responsive__thumbnail ratio-container__image lazyload" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Boies-David-2014-MasterEdit.00_20_07_19.Still006-2-380x214.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Boies-David-2014-MasterEdit.00_20_07_19.Still006-2-760x428.jpg"></div> <i class="embed-responsive__play icon-icon_play-full text-brand-primary"></i> </div> </figure>  <div class="achiever__interview-video__copy"> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: In <i>Bush v. Gore</i>, you had sort of the highest stakes that you can in a politically related case. That was a case in which the presidency of the United States was on the line. And as someone who, as I said earlier, would have been an American history teacher if I hadn’t been a lawyer, just being present at that debate, that litigation, that controversy was exciting. But it was particularly exciting to be part of that legal battle, because it was such a critical battle for the American people, our country, our culture and our law. It was, in some senses, more important than we knew at the time. At the time, I don’t think that most of us fully appreciated the difference to this country and to the world that it made as to whether George W. Bush or Al Gore was going to become president. But what we did know is that it was a momentous decision, and it was a decision where, for the first time in American history, the United States Supreme Court decided a presidential election. There had been one election in the past where three members of the court had participated in a government commission. Three senators, three congressmen and three Supreme Court Justices had assembled together to decide the results of the 1876 election. But never had the Supreme Court, as a court, weighed in to decide a presidential election, and particularly not on a partisan basis.</span></p> </div> </div>      <div class="achiever__interview-copy"> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Tell us briefly about the circumstances. It concerned the vote count in Florida.</b></span></p> </div>     <div class="achiever__video-block"> <figure class="achiever__interview-video"> <div class="embed-responsive embed-responsive-16by9"> <iframe class="embed-responsive-item embed-responsive--has-thumbnail" width="200" height="150" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155if_/https://www.youtube.com/embed/PU2umj7bz1I?feature=oembed&hd=1&modestbranding=1&rel=0&start=0&end=231&version=3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <div class="embed-responsive__thumbnail ratio-container__image lazyload" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Boies-David-2014-MasterEdit.00_22_57_19.Still008-2-380x214.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Boies-David-2014-MasterEdit.00_22_57_19.Still008-2-760x428.jpg"></div> <i class="embed-responsive__play icon-icon_play-full text-brand-primary"></i> </div> </figure>  <div class="achiever__interview-video__copy"> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Al Gore won the popular vote, which in every other democracy is the vote. But of course in the United States, we have what is called the Electoral College, where each state gets a certain number of electoral votes, and those go — with two small exceptions — those go all to one candidate. So if somebody wins California by 50.0001 percent, and somebody loses California by 49.9999 percent, what happens is, all of California’s electoral votes go to the winner. So in a winner-take-all situation, you can get a situation where somebody wins by the popular vote but doesn’t get a majority of the electoral votes. In the 2000 election, it was clear Gore won the popular vote, but the electoral votes — he needed four more electoral votes to be elected. Florida had — and I don’t remember the exact number — but had many times more than what he needed. But if he lost Florida, because he lost all the Florida votes, Bush would be elected president. So the election really came down to Florida. All the other states had been decided. Florida was still undecided. And there were only a few hundred votes that separated the two candidates. And what Florida provided, and had provided for 80 years, is that in those cases you have a manual recount of all the ballots. And the reason for that is that Florida has four different kinds of vote-counting machines. There are four different machines that are used to record votes in different parts of the state. And in order to make it all equal, you’ve got to have a recount that allows people to have a consistent result, which is what the manual recount is designed to do. And we had litigation in Florida as to whether or not we would get that manual recount, and the Florida Supreme Court ultimately held that, “Yes, there has to be a statewide recount. We’re going to recount the entire state to be fair, and we’re going to decide the winner based on the actual voter intent of the particular ballots.” That was what Florida law had always been. The Bush camp appealed that to the United States Supreme Court, and they had two arguments. One argument was a legal argument that said the Florida courts can’t do that, because only the Florida legislature can do that. The Supreme Court rejected that argument six to three. They also, however, argued that the vote count ought to be stopped because it somehow violated the Equal Protection Clause. That decision was five to four against us, and it was a decision that the Supreme Court initially made on a Saturday without ever hearing argument. They heard argument two days later and came out with the same result. But they initially stopped the vote counting before they even had an argument, over the very bitter dissent of four of the Justices. But in our legal system, when the United States Supreme Court makes a decision, that’s the end of the road. There isn’t anything else you can do.</span></p> </div> </div>      <div class="achiever__interview-copy"> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/loose.dtd"> <html><body data-rsssl="1"><p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>That must have been a tough blow.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: It was a tough time. It was a frustrating time. It was a disappointing time, and as time has gone on, I think people have moved on from that, and I think that’s the right thing to do. But I think we will always wonder how the world would have been different, how our country would have been different, how the economy would have been different, how our international relations would have been different, the lives that might have been saved, the treasure that might have been saved, if the Supreme Court had ruled five-four in favor of Gore as opposed to five-four in favor of Bush.</span></p> <figure id="attachment_2426" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2426" style="width: 1680px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><noscript><img class="wp-image-2426 size-full " src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-007.jpg"></noscript><img loading="lazy" class="wp-image-2426 size-full lazyload" alt="Attorneys extraordinaire meet at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. From L to R: Brendan Sullivan, David Boies, Ted Olson, Barry Scheck. (? Academy of Achievement)" width="1680" height="1118" data-sizes="(max-width: 1680px) 100vw, 1680px" data-srcset="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-007.jpg 1680w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-007-380x253.jpg 380w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-007-760x506.jpg 760w" data-src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-007.jpg"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-2426" class="wp-caption-text">Attorneys extraordinaire and members of the American Academy of Achievement meet at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. Left to right: Brendan Sullivan, David Boies, Ted Olson and Barry Scheck.</figcaption></figure> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Did you realize, taking that on, that this was going to be a very, very important case?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Oh, it was clear it was a very, very important case. Important to who became president, but also important to the integrity of our law and the way we resolve disputes. Now, I think that the case, fortunately, is not going to be a precedent for future elections. I think everybody has sort of learned, in retrospect, the lesson that the Supreme Court ought not to play that kind of role. And indeed, even in the Supreme Court decision itself, it says, in effect, this isn’t a precedent for the future. So I think that the long-term damage that the case does to our law is not going to be significant.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>The dissents were pretty powerful on that case.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: They were. Four of the Justices wrote very, very strong dissents, very passionate dissents, and obviously dissents that I agreed with. On the other hand, one of the things that I think is critically important is our belief in and our allegiance to the rule of law. And when the Supreme Court makes a decision, I think we accept it and move on.</span></p> <figure id="attachment_2425" aria-describedby="caption-attachment-2425" style="width: 2280px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><noscript><img class="wp-image-2425 size-full " src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155im_/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-006.jpg"></noscript><img loading="lazy" class="wp-image-2425 size-full lazyload" alt="Attorneys David Boies and Ted Olson discuss their courtroom exploits with Academy Delgates at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (? Academy of Achievement)" width="2280" height="1518" data-sizes="(max-width: 2280px) 100vw, 2280px" data-srcset="/web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-006.jpg 2280w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-006-380x253.jpg 380w, /web/20200917235155im_/https://achievement.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-006-760x506.jpg 760w" data-src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155/https://162.243.3.155/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-006.jpg"><figcaption id="caption-attachment-2425" class="wp-caption-text">Attorneys David Boies and Ted Olson discuss courtroom exploits with the Academy delegates at the 2014 Summit.</figcaption></figure> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Could you tell us the circumstances of <i>Perry v. Hollingsworth</i>? This is the Proposition 8 case concerning same-sex marriage in California.</b></span></p> </body></html> </div>     <div class="achiever__video-block"> <figure class="achiever__interview-video"> <div class="embed-responsive embed-responsive-16by9"> <iframe class="embed-responsive-item embed-responsive--has-thumbnail" width="200" height="150" src="https://web.archive.org/web/20200917235155if_/https://www.youtube.com/embed/WQlDg5fYcis?feature=oembed&hd=1&modestbranding=1&rel=0&start=0&end=82&version=3" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> <div class="embed-responsive__thumbnail ratio-container__image lazyload" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Boies-David-2014-MasterEdit.00_08_23_28.Still002-2-380x214.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Boies-David-2014-MasterEdit.00_08_23_28.Still002-2-760x428.jpg"></div> <i class="embed-responsive__play icon-icon_play-full text-brand-primary"></i> </div> </figure>  <div class="achiever__interview-video__copy"> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: In 2008, California passed so-called Proposition 8 that banned marriage between anybody of the same sex. It just declared that marriage was limited to a man and a woman. And that was contrary to what California law had been immediately preceding that, because the California Supreme Court earlier in 2008 had declared that, under the state constitution, any loving couple had a right to get married. Now when that was changed, that deprived gay and lesbian citizens of the right to get married. And Ted Olson and I brought a lawsuit to challenge Proposition 8 under the federal constitution. And ultimately, the judge ruled that the ban on same-sex marriage violated the federal constitution, violated the Equal Protection and Due Process clauses of the federal constitution, and invalidated Proposition 8. And that decision was ultimately sustained by the Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court on the grounds that the people on the other side, the defendants, really didn’t have standing to oppose the judgment.</span></p> </div> </div>     <aside class="collapse" id="full-interview">    <div class="achiever__interview-copy"> <p class="p1"><b></b><span class="s1"><b>You’ve had so many high-profile cases. What are you most proud of in your illustrious career?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: I think that cases are, in some senses, are a little like children. I have six children. It’s hard to say which one I’m most proud of. But I think that certainly the marriage equality cases are cases that I am enormously proud of. I think that we have in those cases contributed to a really important change in this country. The cases that I’ve done in the area of racial equality as a young lawyer working in Mississippi, and then later on I successfully sued the Republican National Committee on behalf of the Democratic National Committee in 1986, I think it was, to stop the RNC from targeting black and minority districts with voter ID, voter security kinds of tactics. That litigation I’m pretty proud of. I’m proud of the Microsoft case. That was, I think, important, a challenging case. I’m certainly proud of the Westmoreland CBS libel case. I think that was very important in terms of establishing and confirming freedom of the press and the ability of the press to engage in very direct, hostile criticism of government action.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Protecting freedom of speech.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Freedom of speech — freedom of speech, freedom of the press. I’m proud of the <i>Bush v. Gore</i>, even though we lost. I think that the example that we gave to the country was an important example. I think that the record that we made was important in convincing the people, and convincing the court not to repeat it. Even though we didn’t win that case, I think the controversy that ensued, in part because of the record we made, I think has been helpful in limiting the extent to which that kind of interference with the democratic political process will be repeated. I also think that the way that case was conducted, with Ted Olson and what Ted and his team did, together with what we did, showed the American people that even the most contentious issues can be resolved in the courts, and while I might disagree with how it was resolved, I think everybody on both sides, the lawyers there, believe that it was resolved in a way that gave the legal process credibility, and everybody involved in the case acted with professionalism and integrity. And after the fact, everybody united together to say, “This is the final decision. We’ve all got to abide by it and move on.”</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">I’m also proud of a couple of antitrust cases that don’t necessarily get the same profile but are often very important. I defended IBM in a case in the 1970s that was brought against it by private parties that were trying to prevent IBM from competing on price. And we established a principle that even somebody with monopoly power can compete on price, as long as it’s not totally below cost. And that case — incidentally, when I argued that case in the Court of Appeals, I argued it in front of a panel that included Anthony Kennedy. This was before he was on the Supreme Court. So my first case in front of Justice Kennedy was — oh, this was almost — must be 35 years ago, 35 or more years ago. And there was another antitrust case where I represented NASCAR, where they were accused of violating the antitrust laws, and they were trying to get — private parties were trying to get the court to intervene and regulate how they conducted their business. And we won that case. And that was important too, to establishing the right of companies to manage their own affairs and to compete vigorously. I mean, the antitrust laws are not designed to protect competitors from competition. They’re designed to make sure that competition is not snuffed out.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b><i>United States v. Microsoft</i> was another high-profile case. Could you tell us about your strategy with that?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: In Microsoft, you had what was at the time the most successful and the most valuable company in the world. It was a company that, as a company, was widely admired. It was led by an individual, Bill Gates, who was widely admired. They had changed the personal computing fundamentally and in a way that’s — we’re never going back to — the world was different and better because of what Microsoft had done. And yet there were very serious antitrust issues involved, and so what you had to do was you had to — in a sense — challenge this iconic man and this iconic company and do it in a way that you could get a court to decide that it would intervene in the marketplace and influence the decisions that this company was making. And the company’s defense was, “What we’re doing is best for the consumer. That’s always been our goal. We’ve served the consumer very well, and you courts are going to come in and screw it all up.” That was a powerful argument. And to the extent that the court trusted Microsoft, that was a winning argument. What we had to do was, we had to convince the court that the court could not trust Microsoft to simply decide what was best for consumers.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>How did you do that?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: The first thing that we did was, we needed to show the judge that there was a genuine dispute. The case really involved — the central part of the case was a company called Netscape had come out with a browser, and everybody has browsers now, but web browsers at the time were very new, and Netscape really had come out with a browser that dominated the market. And Microsoft was afraid that if the Netscape browser really took hold, people would write programs for the Netscape browser as opposed to the Microsoft operating system. That would eliminate the tremendous advantage that Microsoft had, because everybody wanted to program to Windows, and it was critical to protecting Microsoft’s Windows monopoly that the browser from another company like Netscape not become too popular. And so what they did was, they tied the Microsoft browser to the operating system in a way that made it difficult for Netscape to compete. And the question was, did they have to do that, because if they had to tie it for the consumer’s sake, then Netscape probably couldn’t complain. But if they did it just to stymie Netscape, then there could be an antitrust violation. And of course, they came in and said, “Well, we just did it because this was a better way to serve the consumer.” And the first thing we had to do was, we had to convince the court that there was a reasonable argument on both sides here, so that they knew — so that the court knew — that there was a necessity of trusting Microsoft. And then we had to show the court that Microsoft was not trustworthy, and we did that by attacking them and undercutting and showing that what they said — that their narrative — was simply not true.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Tell us about the outcome.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Ultimately, we won the case. The district court granted very, very broad relief. The relief was cut back by the Court of Appeals, but the finding of liability was sustained unanimously by the Court of Appeals. And one thing that the Court of Appeals said was that the arguments that Microsoft had made to justify the tying of the browser to the operating system were simply pretextual. And they would not have been prepared to reach that conclusion if the Microsoft technical witnesses had maintained their credibility better.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">We had a situation in which, for example, one of their witnesses sponsored a tape that purported to show a Microsoft operating system being used on a computer with the Microsoft browser and then taking the Microsoft browser off, putting on the Netscape browser, and it showed a deterioration of the performance. And the way it was presented was that the video was just running one computer, and that all that changed was the change of the browser. And as such, that was a very powerful video. And it was a video that we had enormous difficulty figuring out how to attack, because we couldn’t figure out why that performance was degraded, and we couldn’t replicate that, but on the other hand, we couldn’t figure out how to attack what they had shown. Ultimately, we were able to demonstrate that what they had done was, they had spliced together footage from two different computers with two different programs, and that it really was a fabricated document. Ultimately, Microsoft admitted that what they said was that they had accomplished this result in a laboratory, but then when they tried to film it they couldn’t repeat it, and so what they did was, they made up this tape and introduced it into evidence. Now if they’d said all that at the time, the tape never would have gotten into evidence. But not saying it was clearly misleading and badly — and this is just one of several examples — badly undercut their credibility. And there’s always a danger here that the drama will overwhelm the facts and that a dramatic instance of that kind of cross-examination will be given too much weight. But in fact, in a case like this where the real issue is, “Can you trust this company to be doing what it says, that is, serving the consumers, as opposed to locking out competitors?” I think there’s a good argument that a very heavy weight on such kind of dissembling is appropriate.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>This had powerful implications for personal computers and the software industry.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: I think that there’s always a danger that when you have this kind of decision, that government will overreact, and I think in the United States we avoided that. But in Europe, I think that one of the unintended consequences of the Microsoft case was, I think, that the finding of liability — and to some extent the damage that occurred to Microsoft’s credibility — led the European regulators to impose regulations on them that were actually quite anti-competitive and anti-consumer. So I think that one of the things you always have to be alert to in these kind of situations, particularly where the government is involved, is that you want to be sure that the remedy matches the violation. The original remedy by the District Court, which — while very broad — was a divestiture remedy that required the separation of the operating system from the application programming. And that, while quite drastic, would not have inhibited competition in the way that some of the European regulatory acts did. So I think that Microsoft was a very important case. I think it was very important in terms of antitrust enforcement policy here in the United States, but it was not a case that did not have some consequences that I think were not ideal.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Have there been cases that didn’t go as you would have liked, where you feel like you could have done something differently?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: It’s always hard to know whether you could have done anything differently. Obviously <i>Bush v. Gore</i> did not go the way I would have liked to have it go. But looking back, I can’t see how we could have changed people’s minds, particularly since they stopped the vote counting before we had the argument by the same vote that they decided the ultimate decision: five to four. So I don’t see anything there, although I thought about it a lot.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">There was a case that I worked on in the 1970s, rising out of the Jackson State College shootings and the turmoil that followed Martin Luther King’s assassination, where we represented the students that had been injured and the families of the students that had been killed in the Jackson State College shootings. We established that the police had used excessive force. Not too hard when you shoot up a college dormitory. But we established that they had used excessive force in the shootings. But because a lot of what was used was shotguns, we could not trace the bullet or pellet that injured or killed a particular student to a particular gun, so we couldn’t prove which of the officers had been responsible for which injury. Now, we were able to prove which officers used excessive force, but linking that causally to it — now, we thought that that didn’t matter, because they were all engaged in a common activity, and when that is true, you’re responsible for what everybody’s doing. But the courts ruled against us there, and there was never a recovery for those shootings. And that was a case that we tried to take to the Supreme Court, and we got three votes for cert. (<i>certiorari</i>), but you need four, so we missed it. Again, missed it by one Supreme Court Justice. And I’ve not figured out how we could have presented it differently, but that’s the kind of thing that you think about.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Fairly early on in your career at Cravath, Swaine & Moore, you took on General Westmoreland, representing CBS. Tell us what was at stake there, what the circumstances were.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: In the Westmoreland case, what had happened is CBS had broadcast a documentary that was very critical of General Westmoreland’s handling of the Vietnam War, and General Westmoreland had sued for $120 million in damages. In the 1980s, that was even more money than it is now. What was at stake was the ability of the press to criticize government officials in the conduct of their official activities. This was not a situation in which CBS was printing something about the general’s personal life or accusing him of shoplifting or anything that might be unrelated to his office, his official duties. This is a broadcast criticizing the commanding general in one of America’s most unpopular wars for the conduct of that war, and we thought that it would send a terrible message to say that that commander could then block that criticism and recover damages for it.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>In the documentary, he was accused of manipulating data.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Enemy troop strength. What the documentary essentially asserted was that in order to keep support for the war at home in the United States, they had given a falsely optimistic picture of how well the war was going, and they had done so in part by manipulating enemy troop strength statistics to show that they were killing and eliminating more of the enemy than they actually were. And so they kept telling the American people that they were winning the war, and they were using these statistics to prove it, but the statistics were not true.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Could you tell us about the outcome of that case? One of the narrators of the documentary was Mike Wallace.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Yes. Mike was the primary narrator. The main producer was George Crile, who later wrote <i>Charlie Wilson’s War</i>, a distinguished reporter and author.<b>聽</b></span><span class="s1">In addition to General Westmoreland, there were a number of very high-ranking public officials who both were represented in the broadcast and who appeared at trial. And this was a case in which most of the evidence came from witnesses who were not on CBS’s side. Most of the evidence came from military personnel, government officials, former government officials. So we had to make our case largely through cross-examination. And one of the things that we had to do was to demonstrate that Westmoreland’s narrative was not true and that ours was. And again, credibility became critically important. And it was a difficult cross-examination of Westmoreland, because Westmoreland was somebody who had devoted his entire life to serving his country. You might agree or disagree with what he did and what he said, but he was obviously a patriot who had done whatever he did because he believed that was in the country’s interest. So you had to be very careful not to offend the jury by attacking him too early. And here’s — I mentioned patience before — patience was absolutely critical to that cross-examination, because I had to get the jury to understand that he wasn’t being forthcoming before I challenged him, before I asserted that. Because if I had simply gone in on a frontal attack right from the beginning, I could have turned that jury off.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>I suppose anything that smacked of disrespect would have been a turnoff.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Certainly in the beginning.聽</span><span class="s1">When I first caught him in inconsistencies, rather than build it up like I said I would ordinarily do, I actually would underplay it. I would say, “Oh, General Westmoreland, you said this. Now that just seems to me a little inconsistent with this document. I’m sure there’s an explanation. Can you tell me what the explanation is?” So I would go through that until — and I did that for a entire day before I really began to pick up the pace, because I wanted the jury to become uncomfortable. And you could just tell, from the way the jurors would look and they’d shift, that his explanations just didn’t hold water. And they understood that. So once they began to understand that he was not being completely accurate in his testimony, you could begin to push him a little harder. One of the critical points in the examination was — this happened after I had built up, I think, some credibility with the jury, and I had undermined the general’s credibility — I asked him whether he had not consciously attempted to convey an optimistic picture, and he said he had not. And I said, “Well General, you certainly went around telling people that there was light at the end of the tunnel. Didn’t you do that?” And he said, “Absolutely not. I wouldn’t do that, because it wasn’t true, and that’s too optimistic, and I would never have said that.” So now I did build it up, because I had a cable from him to Maxwell Taylor saying, “I can now tell you that there’s light at the end of the tunnel.” So once that came out — and it was even more important than — it had to be, because if he had simply said, “Yes, I was optimistic. I believed we were winning,” or if he had simply said, “Yes, I said there was light at the end of the tunnel because I thought there was.” But when he said, “I would never say that. It’s not true,” and then you confronted him, that was a really devastating consequence. And he ultimately just dropped his lawsuit without any payment or any compensation.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>So your patience was rewarded.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Yes. If the jury reaches a conclusion on their own, as opposed to having it forced on them by you, or even led to it by you, if they reach it on their own, it’s much more powerful to them and much more likely to stay with them, because it’s something they’ve figured out. They own it. It’s theirs.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>You’re something of a gambler. You play poker, and you’ve likened litigation to rolling the dice in a way, that small mistakes can make big problems. Could you tell us about that?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Gambling and litigation, like flying an airplane or sailing a sailboat in the open ocean, is not intrinsically difficult, but it is terribly unforgiving of even small mistakes. Small mistakes may have disproportionately large adverse consequences. So you have to be patient. You have to be careful, and you have to be sure you understand what the risks are. It’s very easy — in times of stress, tension or excitement — to be less careful, to be less patient, to be more emotional. That can have devastating consequences for a gambler or a lawyer or a pilot or a sailor.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>You also must never let your opponent control the dice, control the facts.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Control the facts, control the narrative. You’ve got competing narratives. That is, if you’ve got a good opponent, you’ve got competing narratives. You want the jury to focus on your narrative, and you never want to let the other side control your story and control your narrative. Now, that’s not always easy to do, because trials are — you put a witness on, and you examine them, and they examine them. And they always get a chance to ask questions, and they always get a chance to put on their own witnesses. So you can’t control the flow of information that comes in. So what you have to do is, you have to — as well you can — is package, mold, present that information in a way that supports the narrative that you’re presenting. And to do that, probably the single most important thing is to be sure that you understand the narrative and that that narrative is true. Now, everybody is going to pick a true narrative that supports their case. That’s what advocates do. But you must be sure that the narrative is true. There are truths that will support your case, and there are usually some truths that will support the other person’s case. The danger is that you aren’t willing, ready to rely just on the truths that support your case, and what you try to do is, you try to support your case with other things that aren’t going to be able to sustain the weight of cross-examination, the weight of a contrary narrative, the weight of cross-examination from the other side, the weight of contrary documents. Because in that case, if you try to build your narrative on things that you cannot demonstrably prove, you risk losing the credibility of the jury, and you risk confusing the jury, because now they think that some of the things that you put in there that you couldn’t sustain are things that are really important to you, whereas what you want to be doing is trying to convince the jury that the only thing that is important are the truths that support your case.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Does that mean you have to believe that you’re on the right side?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Well, it depends what you mean by the right side. Most cases — not every case — but most cases have points, truths, that support that case. Certainly the cases that I do generally don’t get to court unless there is something to be said for both sides. Now, the Perry case, the marriage equality case, was an exception to that rule. The other side just didn’t have a case. They didn’t have any truths that supported that case.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>When did you first have a concept of becoming a lawyer?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: I think in grade school, when I was reading Perry Mason novels. From as early as I can remember, I wanted either to be a high school American history teacher like my father, or a lawyer like Perry Mason.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>He solved crimes.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: It was basically criminal defense, but it was trial work. It was the conducting of a trial, the investigatory phase, the analytical phase. It was very exciting, challenging, and it was the kind of thing that I knew I’d be interested in.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>What do you think you had in you that drew you to that field?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: I think it was just a combination of competitiveness and analytical ability. I’ve never been great at reading, so something where you could use your mind and you could analyze problems and you could present problems orally was something that was attractive to me. But it was the excitement of the challenge.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>There’s drama, too.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: And drama. We’re all actors in the law.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>You’re actors in the courtroom?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: In some way. A trial is essentially a morality play. You’ve got to have a narrative. You’ve got to have a story. You’ve got to be trying to explain to the judge or the jury why your client is right and the other side is wrong. But you’ve got to do it in the context of making them understand how that fits into a narrative that they can believe to be credible.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>And as you say, there’s morality involved.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: There’s always morality involved.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>So in that sense, you’re a storyteller.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: You have to be.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Did you ever think of another way of telling stories? Acting? Writing?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Not really. I never really thought about becoming an actor. I have written a couple books, but for me, the sort of highest and best use was in the courtroom or teaching. I still love to teach, and I teach occasionally as an adjunct professor. But I would have been very happy, I think, as an American history teacher, and I’m very happy as a lawyer.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>What was it about your dad’s work that you found inspiring as a history teacher?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: I think it was a combination of things. It was his ability to relate to students. It was his mastery of the subject matter and the interest of the subject matter. You couldn’t not be interested in American history growing up with him. But I think I would have been interested in American history in any event, because I believe it is so important to our culture and so important to the kind of people we are, the kind of values we have, the kind of problems we face and the way we need to reach solutions to those problems. History teaches us so much about that, and about the nature of the American experience, the nature of American culture, the nature of the American people. We are an unusual society, unusual nation. We don’t have a traditional, historical ancestral land. We aren’t of a single race. We’re not of a single religion. There is no sort of ethnic definition of an American. We don’t even have a common language. What binds us together as a people is our culture, and history is really the keeper of that culture.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>It sounds like there’s a creative aspect to litigation. You’ve used words like narrative, story, morality play, almost sounding like a playwright. How do you develop your strategies for litigation and what part does creativity play in that?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: The first things you have to do when you take on a case is what every writer, every investigative reporter, every playwright has to do, and that is understand what the facts are. Understand what the story is that is available there. What is the raw material you have to work with? Who are the characters that you have? What are the events? What are the historical markers that you’ve got to deal with? What are the documents that you have to deal with? And then you try to figure out, what are the truths that support your client? How do you construct a narrative that relies on the truths that are helpful to a narrative that will lead the judge or the jury to find for your client? And that requires all of the analytical and presentational skills of somebody who’s going to put on a play or a movie, a documentary, because what you’re trying to do is, you’re trying to present a narrative that the jury can understand, absorb and be motivated by. Now the complicating factor is that, unlike a play, you can’t write the script for all of the players. You can only write the script and write — the script is — even for your own witnesses, it’s not perfect ability. But you can only determine what witnesses you call for your side. The other side gets a chance to bring in their witnesses, and they get to ask your witnesses questions. So you’ve got to present your story at least in part by asking questions of people who don’t want to give you answers that will help your narrative. And you have to use your ability to ask questions of people who do want to help you to be sure you focus what they say in a way that’s going to provide truthful but supportive answers. It’s easy to get truthful answers if you don’t have to worry about them supporting your case, and you can sometimes get supportive answers if you don’t have to worry about the truth. But to get truthful, supportive answers is what you’ve got to do, and to do that, you’ve got to understand the facts better than anybody else — even better than the parties. When you try a case involving a company, whether it’s your client or somebody else’s client, you’ve got to understand their business, their products, their issues better than they do themselves.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Drama’s an important aspect, too, isn’t it?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Drama’s a very important aspect, and it’s important in a couple of respects. First of all, it’s important just so that the jury doesn’t get so bored that they don’t listen. Remember, they don’t have to listen. And if you don’t keep them at least interested enough so that they’re going to pay attention, it doesn’t make any difference how good your case is, because they won’t hear it. They won’t absorb it. So you’ve got to find a way of keeping their interest. And remember, you’re trying, in some cases, to keep their interest for weeks or months about a subject that’s very complicated, that they don’t know anything about. That’s hard. And so unless you have some drama involved in that, you’re going to lose their interest. The second thing that you want to use drama for is to emphasize the points that you make. Those can be points of substance, or they can be points of undercutting the credibility of the other side. But you want to have enough drama there so that you are emphasizing the things that help you. And for example, sometimes a lawyer will find that a witness has said something for the other side — has said something that’s not accurate, and the instinct is to show them a document or something that shows that it’s not accurate and just do that immediately. Now, if you do that, that’s helpful. But if you say to them, “Now, you just said this. You don’t really mean that, do you?” They say, “Oh yes, I absolutely mean it.” “You’re just making that up, aren’t you? You’re just making that up.” Now this is a dramatic confrontation. Now the jury is focusing on it. Now if you’ve made it dramatic, you damn well better be sure that you’ve got it nailed, that you’re going to be able to show to the jury that the person did just make it up, because if you confront them dramatically and then you can’t follow through, not only have you not made your point, but you’ve damaged your credibility. But if you’ve really got it nailed, what you want to do is, you want to build up the conflict. Build it up before you demolish it, so that when you demolish it, it’s a dramatic event that the jury is really focused on.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>So you build it up by saying things like, “Do you really mean that?”</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Yeah. “Did I hear you correctly?” “Is that what you really said?” “You don’t really mean that, do you?”</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Where does that inspiration for drama come from?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Oh, I think part of it is learned. Part of it is instinctive. Why does somebody want to become an actor or an actress? You have an interest in drama. You have an interest in maybe showing off a little bit. But you have an interest in persuading people, and you use drama to persuade people, to move people.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>You mentioned having trouble reading. Did you have a tough time in elementary school?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: I had a tough time reading in elementary school. Elementary school was not intrinsically difficult for me. But I didn’t read until I was in third grade, at all, and when I did start to read, I read slowly, and I’m still not a fast reader.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>You had dyslexia?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Dyslexia.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>When was that diagnosed?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: This would have been in 1974, so I was in my middle thirties. What happened was o</span><span class="s1">ne of my middle children had substantial difficulties reading in kindergarten and early first grade, and so we took him to be tested and analyzed, and they determined he had dyslexia. And the person who was doing that wanted to examine the parents, and it became clear that I was the culprit. But I had never even heard the word dyslexia and didn’t really focus on the fact that I had a learning disability at all. When I grew up — I grew up in a small farming community in Illinois in the 1940s — in that time and in that place, how well a little boy read was not a particularly important factor and certainly was not a defining quality in terms of how either I thought of myself or other people thought of me. I was good at other aspects of school, and the fact that I read slowly didn’t seem to bother most people, and didn’t bother me at the time. That’s quite different for the way children face today. Today, reading and academic competition becomes terribly important, even in early grades, and tends to define the way children look at themselves, their peers look at them, and even their parents look at them. And that’s a terribly disadvantageous thing.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>So in a way, you benefited from nobody saying this puts limits on your academic career.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Right. Nobody thought that. I didn’t read very well, but I was really good at arithmetic, and I was really good at social studies, and even my reading was masked. My reading problems were masked a little bit by the fact that I could memorize things.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>I believe you also had very good powers of concentration.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Pretty good. Yes.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>In high school, you were on the debate team.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Yes. And one of the things that happened on the debate team was — and you know, i</span><span class="s1">n debate, you tend to prepare these notecards, and you write down all these things on the notecards, and then during the debate you’ll reference the notecards. And one of the things I found was that, because of my dyslexia, it was really not practical for me to use notecards. It took me too long to find my place in the notecard, read the point and then come back. As you know from interviewing people, if you’ve got a camera or tape recorder running, three or four or five seconds of dead time seems like an eternity. So if you’re in a debate and you lose your place, it takes you three or four or five or six seconds, you’ve sort of lost your audience. So I had to learn to speak extemporaneously. I had to learn to have an outline in my head and then speak around that outline without being tied to notes or scripts. And as I learned that, which was really essential for me given my dyslexia, that turned out to be a very helpful and powerful skill later.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>I would imagine there’s almost no more powerful skill in the courtroom than that.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: It’s that and being able to focus and analyze, and patience. Patience is critical in a trial.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>How so?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: You want to give your opponent a chance to make a mistake. You want to be sure that before — you’ve got a trap — before you spring the trap, everything is in place. You want to be sure that your case is well-prepared, that you haven’t gone too far out on a limb. You’ve not exposed your credibility. The most important thing in a trial is credibility, because particularly with a jury, you’ve got 12 citizens who have been brought in, and they don’t know anything about you. They don’t know anything about your opponent. They don’t know anything about the case. In fact, if they know anything about you or your opponent or the case, they probably can’t serve on the jury. So you’ve got a blank slate that you’re working with. Now, how are they going to figure out who to trust? How are they going to figure out who to believe? They’re going to believe the person that has credibility, and that credibility’s built up over time. So if you lose credibility with respect to a point, you’re not only losing that point, but you may be losing your ability to keep the jury’s trust. And if you’ve lost that, you’ve lost the case.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Credibility is built slowly, so that’s an example of the patience you need.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: That’s right. And you want to be sure that, as you develop your narrative and you develop your case, you are developing something at the beginning that you’ll be able to sustain at the end. Too often, people have the most colorful and persuasive arguments at the beginning that they’re not going to be able to sustain at the end. That’s worse than not having them at all, because not only have you lost it, but you have told the jury that you’ve lost it, and you’ve probably lost your credibility along the way.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>You’ve also passed on your passion for the law to some of your kids. That must be a source of pride.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: It is great. I like what all my children do, but when they are in the practice of law it’s really great. I have two of them in my firm, and I actually get to spend a lot of time with them, which is a little harder sometimes when they’re busy and you’re busy.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>So you didn’t become a history teacher, but you’ve made history instead.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: And I’ve had a chance to be present when history was being made. It’s been a tremendous privilege, that I’ve had the opportunity to do what I’ve done.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Does the concept of the American Dream have resonance for you?</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Oh, absolutely.聽</span><span class="s1">I think the American Dream — a dream of equality, of opportunity, of constant progress, of openness, inclusiveness — I think is a core part of what we think of as American culture. I think that the American Dream of that kind of opportunity and equality is what allows us, I think, to be innovative, to be entrepreneurial, to be creative, to take chances. And it is what allows us to not only tolerate but celebrate individual achievement. One of the things that I most regret in the last few decades is the sense of “We/Them, Us/They, One percent/99 percent, the Haves/the Have-not” kind of conflict, where people who have too much are trying to hold onto it. People who don’t have enough are trying to take it from somebody else. What we as a people have always thought is that we work together to try to expand the pie and to try to give every new generation an opportunity. The problem comes when people believe that the new generation is not going to have an equal opportunity. Part of the social compact, I think, that binds us together as a people is the sense that we will tolerate, and as I say, even celebrate somebody else’s success, because we believe our children will have the same opportunity to achieve that success. When that is no longer true, when we no longer think our children are going to get a new deal, then our willingness to tolerate those kind of differences diminishes, and I think that it’s important that we try to get back to the principle of equality of opportunity. It’s not equality of result, but it’s equality of opportunity. But if an unequal result in one generation is going to destroy the equality of opportunity of the next generation, people are not going to tolerate that.</span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1"><b>Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us.</b></span></p> <p class="p1"><span class="s1">David Boies: Well, thank you.</span></p> </div>  </aside>  <div class="read-more__toggle collapsed" data-toggle="collapse" data-target="#full-interview"><a href="#" class="sans-4 btn">Read full interview</a></div> </article> </section> </div> <div class="tab-pane" id="gallery" role="tabpanel"> <section class="isotope-wrapper">  <header class="toolbar toolbar--gallery bg-white clearfix"> <div class="col-md-6"> <div class="serif-4">David Boies Gallery</div> </div> <div class="col-md-6 text-md-right isotope-toolbar"> <ul class="list-unstyled list-inline m-b-0 text-brand-primary sans-4"> <li class="list-inline-item" data-filter=".photo"><i class="icon-icon_camera"></i>12 photos</li> </ul> </div> </header> <div class="isotope-gallery isotope-box single-achiever__gallery clearfix"> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="1" title="David Boies (Courtesy of David Boies)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - David Boies (Courtesy of David Boies)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-012a.jpg" data-image-caption="David Boies (Courtesy of David Boies)" data-image-copyright="boi0-012a" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-012a-380x380.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-012a.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="1.2377850162866" title="David Boies, at home in the courtroom in 2000. TIME magazine featured him as its " lawyer of the year," in large part for his role in the justice department's antitrust case against microsoft. (漏 brian smith corbis)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - David Boies, at home in the courtroom in 2000. TIME magazine featured him as its " lawyer of the year," in large part for his role in the justice department's antitrust case against microsoft. (漏 brian smith corbis)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-011.jpg" data-image-caption="David Boies, at home in the courtroom in 2000. TIME magazine featured him as its "Lawyer of the Year," in large part for his role in the Justice Department's antitrust case against Microsoft. (漏 Brian Smith/Corbis)" data-image-copyright="David Boies" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-011-307x380.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-011-614x760.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.65131578947368" title="David Boies is surrounded by news cameras as he arrives at U.S. District Court in New York City in 1984. Boies was representing CBS in a $120 million libel suit filed by Gen. William Westmoreland. (AP Photo/David Handschuh)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - David Boies is surrounded by news cameras as he arrives at U.S. District Court in New York City in 1984. Boies was representing CBS in a $120 million libel suit filed by Gen. William Westmoreland. (AP Photo/David Handschuh)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-010.jpg" data-image-caption="David Boies is surrounded by news cameras as he arrives at U.S. District Court in New York City in 1984. Boies was representing CBS in a $120 million libel suit filed by General William Westmoreland. (AP Photo/David Handschuh)" data-image-copyright="boi0-010" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-010-380x247.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-010-760x495.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.77894736842105" title="Attorney David Boies celebrates with his clients after the Supreme Court overturned California's ban on same-sex marriage in 2013. From L to R: Jeff Zarrillo and his partner Paul Katami; David Boies; Sandy Stier and her partner Kris Perry. (漏 J. Scott Applewhite/ /AP/Corbis)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - Attorney David Boies celebrates with his clients after the Supreme Court overturned California's ban on same-sex marriage in 2013. From L to R: Jeff Zarrillo and his partner Paul Katami; David Boies; Sandy Stier and her partner Kris Perry. (漏 J. Scott Applewhite/ /AP/Corbis)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-009.jpg" data-image-caption="Plaintiffs in Hollingsworth v. Perry, the California Proposition 8 case, react on the steps of the Supreme Court in Washington, June 26, 2013, after Justices cleared the way for the resumption of same-sex marriage in California. From left are: Jeff Zarrillo and his partner, Paul Katami, attorney David Boies, and Sandy Stier and her partner, Kris Perry. (漏 J. Scott Applewhite/ /AP/Corbis)" data-image-copyright="Supreme Court Gay Marriage" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-009-380x296.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-009-760x592.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="1.3333333333333" title="David Boies, champion litigator, famed for his deft examination of witnesses in high-profile cases. (Courtesy of David Boies)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - David Boies, champion litigator, famed for his deft examination of witnesses in high-profile cases. (Courtesy of David Boies)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-008.jpg" data-image-caption="David Boies, champion litigator, famed for his deft examination of witnesses in high-profile cases. (Courtesy of David Boies)" data-image-copyright="boi0-008" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-008-285x380.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-008-570x760.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.66578947368421" title="Attorneys extraordinaire meet at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. From L to R: Brendan Sullivan, David Boies, Ted Olson, Barry Scheck. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - Attorneys extraordinaire meet at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. From L to R: Brendan Sullivan, David Boies, Ted Olson, Barry Scheck. (漏 Academy of Achievement)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-007.jpg" data-image-caption="Attorneys extraordinaire meet at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. From left to right: Brendan Sullivan, David Boies, Ted Olson, Barry Scheck. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-image-copyright="boi0-007" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-007-380x253.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-007-760x506.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.66578947368421" title="Attorneys David Boies and Ted Olson discuss their courtroom exploits with Academy Delgates at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - Attorneys David Boies and Ted Olson discuss their courtroom exploits with Academy Delgates at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-006.jpg" data-image-caption="Attorneys David Boies and Ted Olson discuss their courtroom exploits with Academy delegates at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-image-copyright="boi0-006" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-006-380x253.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-006-760x506.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.8" title="Attorneys David Boies and Ted Olson discuss their courtroom exploits with Academy Delgates at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - Attorneys David Boies and Ted Olson discuss their courtroom exploits with Academy Delgates at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-005.jpg" data-image-caption="Attorneys David Boies and Ted Olson discuss their courtroom exploits with Academy delegates at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-image-copyright="boi0-005" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-005-380x304.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-005-760x608.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.66578947368421" title="Attorney David Boies recalls his side of the story as former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson looks on at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - Attorney David Boies recalls his side of the story as former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson looks on at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-004.jpg" data-image-caption="Attorney David Boies discusses his efforts to overturn the State of California's Proposition 8 ban on gay marriage, along with his co-counsel, former U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson, during the 2014 Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-image-copyright="boi0-004" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-004-380x253.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-004-760x506.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.66578947368421" title="David Boies chats with Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes and James Watson, discoverer of the DNA molecule. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - David Boies chats with Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes and James Watson, discoverer of the DNA molecule. (漏 Academy of Achievement)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-003.jpg" data-image-caption="David Boies chats with Theranos founder Elizabeth Holmes, and James Watson, discoverer of the DNA molecule. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-image-copyright="boi0-003" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-003-380x253.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-003-760x506.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.8" title="ACLU Director Anthony Romero presents David Boies with the Golden Plate Award of the Academy of Achievement at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - ACLU Director Anthony Romero presents David Boies with the Golden Plate Award of the Academy of Achievement at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-002.jpg" data-image-caption="ACLU Director Anthony Romero presents David Boies with the Golden Plate Award of the Academy of Achievement at the 2014 International Achievement Summit in San Francisco. (漏 Academy of Achievement)" data-image-copyright="boi0-002" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-002-380x304.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-002-760x608.jpg"></div>  </figure> <figure class="isotope-item ratio-container--gallery photo" data-category="photo" data-ratio="0.80657894736842" title="David Boies, attorney for Vice President Al Gore, speaks outside of the U.S. Supreme Court in December 11, 2000 as the Court considers the case of Bush v. Gore. The Court's judgment in this case effectively decided the outcome of the 2000 presidential election. (漏 Reuters/CORBIS)" data-gtm-category="photo" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Achiever - David Boies, attorney for Vice President Al Gore, speaks outside of the U.S. Supreme Court in December 11, 2000 as the Court considers the case of Bush v. Gore. The Court's judgment in this case effectively decided the outcome of the 2000 presidential election. (漏 Reuters/CORBIS)">   <div class="lazyload ratio-container__image" data-toggle="modal" data-target="#imageModal" data-image-src="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-001.jpg" data-image-caption="David Boies, attorney for Vice President Al Gore, speaks outside of the U.S. Supreme Court on December 11, 2000, as the Court considers the case of Bush v. Gore. The Court's judgment in this case effectively decided the outcome of the 2000 presidential election. (漏 Reuters/CORBIS)" data-image-copyright="GORE ATTORNEY MEETS WITH REPORTERS OUTSIDE SUPREME COURT" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-001-380x306.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/03/boi0-001-760x613.jpg"></div>  </figure>    </div> </section> </div> </div> <div class="container"> <footer class="editorial-article__footer col-md-8 col-md-offset-4"> <div class="editorial-article__next-link sans-3"> <a href="#"><strong>What's next:</strong> <span class="editorial-article__next-link-title">profile</span></a> </div> <ul class="social list-unstyled list-inline ssk-group m-b-0"> <li class="list-inline-item"><a href="" class="ssk ssk-facebook" data-gtm-category="social" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Shared Achiever on Facebook"><i class="icon-icon_facebook-circle"></i></a></li> <li class="list-inline-item"><a href="" class="ssk ssk-twitter" data-gtm-category="social" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Shared Achiever on Twitter"><i class="icon-icon_twitter-circle"></i></a></li>  <li class="list-inline-item"><a href="" class="ssk ssk-email" data-gtm-category="social" data-gtm-action="click" data-gtm-label="Shared Achiever via Email"><i class="icon-icon_email-circle"></i></a></li> </ul> <time class="editorial-article__last-updated sans-6">This page last revised on December 19, 2016</time> <div class="sans-4"><a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/how-to-cite" target="_blank">How to cite this page</a></div> </footer> </div> <div class="container interview-related-achievers"> <hr class="m-t-3 m-b-3"/> <footer class="clearfix small-blocks text-xs-center"> <h3 class="m-b-3 serif-3">If you are inspired by this achiever, you might also enjoy:</h3> <div class="centered-blocks"> <div class="isotope-achiever public-service illness-or-disability racism-discrimination ambitious pursue-public-office " data-year-inducted="1995" data-achiever-name="Ginsburg"> <div class="achiever-block view-grid"> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ruth-bader-ginsburg/"> <figure class="ratio-container ratio-container--square bg-black"> <div class="lazyload box achiever-block__image" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/gin0-001a-190x190.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/04/gin0-001a-380x380.jpg"></div> <div class="achiever-block__overlay"></div> <figcaption class="text-xs-center achiever-block__text"> <div class="display--table"> <div class="display--table-cell"> <div class="achiever-block__text--center"> <div class="achiever-block__name text-brand-primary">Ruth Bader Ginsburg</div> <div class="achiever-block__known-as text-white sans-6">Justice, Supreme Court of the United States</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="text-white achiever-block__text--bottom"> <div class="achiever-block__year sans-4">Inducted in <span class="year-inducted">1995</span></div> </div> </figcaption> </figure> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="centered-blocks"> <div class="isotope-achiever the-arts the-arts difficulty-with-school athletic write " data-year-inducted="2005" data-achiever-name="Irving"> <div class="achiever-block view-grid"> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/john-irving/"> <figure class="ratio-container ratio-container--square bg-black"> <div class="lazyload box achiever-block__image" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/irving_760_ac-190x190.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/08/irving_760_ac-380x380.jpg"></div> <div class="achiever-block__overlay"></div> <figcaption class="text-xs-center achiever-block__text"> <div class="display--table"> <div class="display--table-cell"> <div class="achiever-block__text--center"> <div class="achiever-block__name text-brand-primary">John Irving</div> <div class="achiever-block__known-as text-white sans-6">National Book Award</div> </div> </div> </div> <div class="text-white achiever-block__text--bottom"> <div class="achiever-block__year sans-4">Inducted in <span class="year-inducted">2005</span></div> </div> </figcaption> </figure> </a> </div> </div> </div> <div class="centered-blocks"> <div class="isotope-achiever ambitious analytical teach-others " data-year-inducted="2005" data-achiever-name="Kennedy"> <div class="achiever-block view-grid"> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/anthony-m-kennedy/"> <figure class="ratio-container ratio-container--square bg-black"> <div class="lazyload box achiever-block__image" data-sizes="auto" data-bgset="/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/kennedy_760_ac-190x190.jpg [(max-width:576px)] | /wp-content/uploads/2016/04/kennedy_760_ac-380x380.jpg"></div> <div class="achiever-block__overlay"></div> <figcaption class="text-xs-center achiever-block__text"> <div class="display--table"> <div class="display--table-cell"> <div class="achiever-block__text--center"> <div class="achiever-block__name text-brand-primary">Anthony M. 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Dell</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ron-dennis/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Ron Dennis</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/joan-didion/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Joan Didion</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-herbert-donald-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">David Herbert Donald, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-doubilet/"><span class="achiever-list-name">David Doubilet</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/jennifer-a-doudna-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Jennifer A. Doudna, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/rita-dove/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Rita Dove</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/sylvia-earle/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sylvia Earle, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/elbaradei/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Mohamed ElBaradei</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/gertrude-elion/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Gertrude B. Elion, M.Sc.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/larry-j-ellison/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Larry J. Ellison</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/nora-ephron/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Nora Ephron</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/julius-erving/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Julius Erving</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/tony-fadell/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Tony Fadell</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/paul-farmer/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Paul Farmer, M.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/suzanne-farrell/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Suzanne Farrell</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/anthony-s-fauci-m-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Anthony S. Fauci, M.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/sally-field/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sally Field</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/lord-norman-foster/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Lord Norman Foster</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/aretha-franklin/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Aretha Franklin</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/milton-friedman-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Milton Friedman, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/carlos-fuentes/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Carlos Fuentes</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/athol-fugard/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Athol Fugard</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/peter-gabriel/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Peter Gabriel</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ernest-j-gaines/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Ernest J. Gaines</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/william-h-gates-iii/"><span class="achiever-list-name">William H. Gates III</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/leymah-gbowee/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Leymah Gbowee</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/frank-gehry/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Frank O. Gehry</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/murray-gell-mann-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Murray Gell-Mann, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/carlos-ghosn/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Carlos Ghosn</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/vince-gill/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Vince Gill</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ruth-bader-ginsburg/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Ruth Bader Ginsburg</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/louise-gluck/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Louise Gl眉ck</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/whoopi-goldberg/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Whoopi Goldberg</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/jane-goodall/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Dame Jane Goodall</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/doris-kearns-goodwin/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Doris Kearns Goodwin, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/mikhail-s-gorbachev/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Mikhail S. Gorbachev</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/nadine-gordimer/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Nadine Gordimer</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/stephen-jay-gould/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Stephen Jay Gould, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/carol-greider-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Carol W. Greider, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/john-grisham/"><span class="achiever-list-name">John Grisham</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/sir-john-gurdon/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sir John Gurdon</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/dorothy-hamill/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Dorothy Hamill</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/demis-hassabis-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Demis Hassabis, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/lauryn-hill/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Lauryn Hill</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/sir-edmund-hillary/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sir Edmund Hillary</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/reid-hoffman/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Reid Hoffman</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/khaled-hosseini/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Khaled Hosseini, M.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ron-howard/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Ron Howard</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/john-hume/"><span class="achiever-list-name">John Hume</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/louis-ignarro-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Louis Ignarro, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/daniel-inouye/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Daniel K. Inouye</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/jeremy-irons/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Jeremy Irons</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/john-irving/"><span class="achiever-list-name">John Irving</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/kazuo-ishiguro/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sir Kazuo Ishiguro</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/sir-peter-jackson/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sir Peter Jackson</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/donald-c-johanson/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Donald C. Johanson, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/frank-m-johnson/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Frank M. Johnson, Jr.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/philip-johnson/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Philip C. Johnson</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/chuck-jones/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Chuck Jones</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/james-earl-jones/"><span class="achiever-list-name">James Earl Jones</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/quincy-jones/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Quincy Jones</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/beverly-joubert/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Beverly Joubert</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/dereck-joubert/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Dereck Joubert</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/paul-kagame/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Paul Kagame</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/thomas-keller-2/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Thomas Keller</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/anthony-m-kennedy/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Anthony M. Kennedy</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/carole-king/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Carole King</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/b-b-king/"><span class="achiever-list-name">B.B. King</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/coretta-scott-king/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Coretta Scott King</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/henry-kissinger-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Henry A. Kissinger, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/willem-j-kolff/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Willem J. Kolff, M.D., Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/wendy-kopp/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Wendy Kopp</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/henry-r-kravis/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Henry R. Kravis</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/nicholas-d-kristof/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Nicholas D. Kristof</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/mike-krzyzewski/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Mike Krzyzewski</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ray-kurzwell/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Ray Kurzweil</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/eric-lander-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Eric S. Lander, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/robert-s-langer-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Robert S. Langer, Sc.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/richard-leakey/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Richard E. Leakey</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/leon-lederman-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Leon Lederman, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/robert-lefkowitz-m-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Robert J. Lefkowitz, M.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/congressman-john-r-lewis/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Congressman John R. Lewis</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/maya-lin/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Maya Lin</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/george-lucas/"><span class="achiever-list-name">George Lucas</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/paul-b-maccready-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Paul B. MacCready, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/norman-mailer/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Norman Mailer</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/peyton-manning/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Peyton Manning</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/wynton-marsalis/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Wynton Marsalis</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/john-c-mather-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">John C. Mather, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/johnny-mathis/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Johnny Mathis</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ernst-mayr-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Ernst Mayr, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/willie-mays/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Willie Mays</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/frank-mccourt/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Frank McCourt</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/david-mccullough/"><span class="achiever-list-name">David McCullough</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/audra-mcdonald/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Audra McDonald</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/admiral-william-h-mcraven/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Admiral William H. McRaven, USN</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/w-s-merwin/"><span class="achiever-list-name">W. S. Merwin</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/reinhold-messner/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Reinhold Messner</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/james-a-michener/"><span class="achiever-list-name">James A. Michener</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/marvin-minsky-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Marvin Minsky, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/mario-j-molina-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Mario J. Molina, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/n-scott-momaday-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">N. Scott Momaday, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/story-musgrave/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Story Musgrave, M.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ralph-nader/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Ralph Nader</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/peggy-noonan/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Peggy Noonan</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/jessye-norman/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Jessye Norman</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/tommy-norris/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Lt. Thomas R. Norris, USN</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/joyce-carol-oates/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Joyce Carol Oates</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/pierre-omidyar/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Pierre Omidyar</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/jimmy-page/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Jimmy Page</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/larry-page/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Larry Page</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/arnold-palmer/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Arnold Palmer</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/leon-panetta/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Leon Panetta</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/rosa-parks/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Rosa Parks</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/suzan-lori-parks/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Suzan-Lori Parks</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/linus-pauling/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Linus C. Pauling, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/shimon-peres/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Shimon Peres</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/itzhak-perlman/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Itzhak Perlman</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/general-david-petraeus/"><span class="achiever-list-name">General David H. Petraeus, USA</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/sidney-poitier/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sidney Poitier</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/general-colin-l-powell/"><span class="achiever-list-name">General Colin L. Powell, USA</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/harold-prince/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Harold Prince</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/venki-ramakrishnan-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Venki Ramakrishnan, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/lord-martin-rees/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Lord Martin Rees</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/lloyd-richards/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Lloyd Richards</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/sally-ride-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sally K. Ride, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/sonny-rollins/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Sonny Rollins</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/anthony-romero/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Anthony D. Romero</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/james-rosenquist/"><span class="achiever-list-name">James Rosenquist</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/pete-rozelle/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Pete Rozelle</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/bill-russell/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Bill Russell</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/albie-sachs/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Albie Sachs</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/oliver-sacks-m-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Oliver Sacks, M.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/jonas-salk-m-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Jonas Salk, M.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/frederick-sanger-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Frederick Sanger, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/george-b-schaller-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">George B. Schaller, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/barry-scheck/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Barry Scheck</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/richard-evans-schultes-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Richard Evans Schultes, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/general-h-norman-schwarzkopf/"><span class="achiever-list-name">General H. Norman Schwarzkopf, USA</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/stephen-schwarzman/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Stephen A. Schwarzman</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/glenn-t-seaborg-ph-d/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Glenn T. Seaborg, Ph.D.</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/neil-sheehan/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Neil Sheehan</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/admiral-alan-shepard-jr/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Admiral Alan B. Shepard, Jr., USN</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/ellen-johnson-sirleaf/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Ellen Johnson Sirleaf</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/carlos-slim/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Carlos Slim Hel煤</span></a> </li> <li> <a href="/web/20200917235155/https://achievement.org/achiever/frederick-w-smith/"><span class="achiever-list-name">Frederick W. 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