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href="#Etymology"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">2</span> <span>Etymology</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Etymology-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Human_Hair" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Human_Hair"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">3</span> <span>Human Hair</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Human_Hair-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Human_Hair_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Human_Hair_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">4</span> <span>Human Hair</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Human_Hair_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">5</span> <span>Longbow more powerful than a ballista?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Last_use_in_combat?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Last_use_in_combat?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">6</span> <span>Last use in combat?</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Last_use_in_combat?-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-composite_bow" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#composite_bow"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">7</span> <span>composite bow</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-composite_bow-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Size_of_a_ballista" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Size_of_a_ballista"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">8</span> <span>Size of a ballista</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Size_of_a_ballista-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Gastrophetes" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Gastrophetes"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">9</span> <span>Gastrophetes</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Gastrophetes-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-the_two_merge_requests" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#the_two_merge_requests"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">10</span> <span>the two merge requests</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">4 comments</span> <ul id="toc-the_two_merge_requests-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Broken_(?)_Link" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Broken_(?)_Link"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">11</span> <span>Broken (?) Link</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Broken_(?)_Link-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-The_Missing_Link" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#The_Missing_Link"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">12</span> <span>The Missing Link</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-The_Missing_Link-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Longbows_as_sniper_weapons"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">13</span> <span>Longbows as sniper weapons</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">2 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Blocking" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Blocking"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">14</span> <span>Blocking</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Blocking-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Lack_of_In-Line_Citations"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">15</span> <span>Lack of In-Line Citations</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Ballistae_vs_ballistas" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Ballistae_vs_ballistas"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">16</span> <span>Ballistae vs ballistas</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">3 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Ballistae_vs_ballistas-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Earliest_evidence_of_ballista"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">17</span> <span>Earliest evidence of ballista</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">6 comments</span> <ul id="toc-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-External_links_modified" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#External_links_modified"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">18</span> <span>External links modified</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-External_links_modified-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-External_links_modified_2" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#External_links_modified_2"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">19</span> <span>External links modified</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-External_links_modified_2-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Physics?" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Physics?"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">20</span> <span>Physics?</span> </div> 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class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-"offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry"-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> <li id="toc-Terminology" class="vector-toc-list-item vector-toc-level-1 vector-toc-list-item-expanded"> <a class="vector-toc-link" href="#Terminology"> <div class="vector-toc-text"> <span class="vector-toc-numb">23</span> <span>Terminology</span> </div> </a> <span class="ext-discussiontools-init-sidebar-meta">1 comment</span> <ul id="toc-Terminology-sublist" class="vector-toc-list"> </ul> </li> </ul> </div> </div> </nav> </div> </div> <div class="mw-content-container"> <main id="content" class="mw-body"> <header class="mw-body-header vector-page-titlebar"> <nav aria-label="Contents" class="vector-toc-landmark"> <div id="vector-page-titlebar-toc" class="vector-dropdown vector-page-titlebar-toc vector-button-flush-left" title="Table of Contents" > <input type="checkbox" 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href="/wiki/File:Symbol_start_class.svg" class="mw-file-description" title="Start-Class article"><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Symbol_start_class.svg/35px-Symbol_start_class.svg.png" decoding="async" width="35" height="36" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Symbol_start_class.svg/53px-Symbol_start_class.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a4/Symbol_start_class.svg/70px-Symbol_start_class.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="180" data-file-height="185"/></a></span></td><td class="banner-shell-header" style="text-align:left;font-weight:normal">This <span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/13/C%C3%ADrculos_Conc%C3%A9ntricos.svg/16px-C%C3%ADrculos_Conc%C3%A9ntricos.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" 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.banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpb-category-box{background-color:#0a0a0a}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb .wpb-main,html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .wpb-header{background-color:#302f2d}html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .wpbs .banner-shell-inner{background-color:#2e2505}}</style><table class="tmbox tmbox-notice mw-collapsible innercollapse wpb wpb-table"><tbody><tr class="wpb-header"><td class="wpb-header-icon"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/25px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="25" height="25" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/38px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="wpb-header-combined"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history</a><span class="wpb-nested-task-force">: <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Military_science,_technology,_and_theory_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Military science, technology, and theory task force">Technology</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Weaponry_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Weaponry task force">Weaponry</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Roman_and_Byzantine_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Roman and Byzantine military history task force">Roman & Byzantine</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Classical_warfare_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Classical warfare task force">Classical</a> / <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Medieval_warfare_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Medieval warfare task force">Medieval</a></span> <span class="wpb-header-bubbles class-c">C‑class</span></td></tr><tr><td class="mbox-text wpb-main" colspan="2"><table><tbody><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-image"><span typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Waricon.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="WikiProject icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/50px-Waricon.svg.png" decoding="async" width="50" height="50" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/75px-Waricon.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/65/Waricon.svg/100px-Waricon.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="140" data-file-height="140"/></a></span></td><td class="mbox-text">This article is within the scope of the <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history">Military history WikiProject</a></b>. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Open_tasks" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Open tasks">list of open tasks</a>. To use this banner, please see the <a href="/wiki/Template:WikiProject_Military_history" title="Template:WikiProject Military history">full instructions</a>.<span class="metadata wpb-metadata"><span class="wpb-project">Military history</span><span class="wpb-project_link">Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-banner_name">Template:WikiProject Military history</span><span class="wpb-assessment_cat">military history</span></span></td><td class="mbox-empty-cell"></td></tr><tr><td class="assess class-c"><a href="/wiki/Category:C-Class_military_history_articles" title="Category:C-Class military history articles">C</a></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2">This article has been rated as <b>C-class</b> on the project's <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Quality_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment">quality scale</a>.</td></tr><tr><td class="assess-b" style="padding-bottom:5px"><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Content_assessment/B-Class_criteria" title="Wikipedia:Content assessment/B-Class criteria"><img alt="B checklist" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/20px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png" decoding="async" width="20" height="20" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/30px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/2/25/Bclass-checklist.svg/40px-Bclass-checklist.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="100" data-file-height="100"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="plainlinks mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th class="wpb-collapsed-head mbox-text" colspan="3" style="font-weight:normal">This article has been checked against the following <b><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Quality_scale" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment">criteria</a></b> for B-class status:</th><td style="min-width:3em"></td></tr><tr><td style="font-size:90%"><ol><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/16px-Red_x.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/24px-Red_x.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Red_x.svg/32px-Red_x.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Referencing and citation: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion not met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Coverage and accuracy: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Structure: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Grammar and style: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li><li><span typeof="mw:File"><span><img alt="" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/16px-Green_check.svg.png" decoding="async" width="16" height="16" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/24px-Green_check.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/03/Green_check.svg/32px-Green_check.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="600" data-file-height="600"/></span></span> Supporting materials: <span style="font-style:italic">criterion met</span></li></ol></td><td style="font-size:88%"></td><td class="empty-cell"></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-notes"><table class="mw-collapsible mw-collapsed"><tbody><tr><th colspan="3" class="wpb-collapsed-head">Associated task forces:</th></tr><tr><td class="mbox-image wpb-gutter" style="min-width:50px"><span class="wpb-iefix">/ </span></td><td></td><td></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Fire_and_movement.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Fire_and_movement.svg/43px-Fire_and_movement.svg.png" decoding="async" width="43" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Fire_and_movement.svg/64px-Fire_and_movement.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/Fire_and_movement.svg/85px-Fire_and_movement.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="842" data-file-height="595"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Military_science,_technology,_and_theory_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Military science, technology, and theory task force">Military science, technology, and theory task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg/43px-DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg" decoding="async" width="43" height="26" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg/65px-DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg/86px-DWM_4_inch_Navy_Luger_859.jpg 2x" data-file-width="555" data-file-height="341"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Weaponry_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Weaponry task force">Weaponry task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Roman_Military_banner.svg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Roman_Military_banner.svg/37px-Roman_Military_banner.svg.png" decoding="async" width="37" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Roman_Military_banner.svg/56px-Roman_Military_banner.svg.png 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Roman_Military_banner.svg/74px-Roman_Military_banner.svg.png 2x" data-file-width="289" data-file-height="234"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Roman_and_Byzantine_military_history_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Roman and Byzantine military history task force">Roman and Byzantine military history task force</a></td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Trireme_1.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Trireme_1.jpg/38px-Trireme_1.jpg" decoding="async" width="38" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Trireme_1.jpg/57px-Trireme_1.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Trireme_1.jpg/76px-Trireme_1.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2052" data-file-height="1629"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Classical_warfare_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Classical warfare task force">Classical warfare task force</a> (c. 700 BC – c. 500 AD)</td></tr><tr><td><figure class="mw-halign-center" typeof="mw:File"><a href="/wiki/File:Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg" class="mw-file-description"><img alt="Taskforce icon" src="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg/25px-Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg" decoding="async" width="25" height="30" class="mw-file-element" srcset="//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg/37px-Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg 1.5x, //upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg/49px-Paolo_Uccello_045.jpg 2x" data-file-width="2024" data-file-height="2464"/></a><figcaption></figcaption></figure></td><td class="mbox-text" colspan="2"><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Medieval_warfare_task_force" title="Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Medieval warfare task force">Medieval warfare task force</a> (c. 500 – c. 1500)</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table> <meta property="mw:PageProp/toc"/> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Middle_Ages" data-mw-thread-id="h-Middle_Ages-2012-03-07T12:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Middle_Ages-2012-03-07T12:14:00.000Z"></span>Middle Ages<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Middle_Ages-2012-03-07T12:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Middle Ages"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Dawright12-2012-03-07T12:14:00.000Z-Middle_Ages"></span>The phrase "no anointment" puzzles me: does it refer to lubrication of the machinery, or to 'oiling' the torsion device to prevent - or minimise - the effects of damp which would otherwise reduce the efficiency of the balista? <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Dawright12&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Dawright12 (page does not exist)">Dawright12</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Dawright12" title="User talk:Dawright12">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Dawright12" title="Special:Contributions/Dawright12">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Dawright12-2012-03-07T12:14:00.000Z-Middle_Ages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">12:14, 7 March 2012 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Dawright12-2012-03-07T12:14:00.000Z-Middle_Ages"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Dawright12-2012-03-07T12:14:00.000Z-Middle_Ages"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-KadaganX-2012-08-13T15:30:00.000Z-Middle_Ages"></span>A lubricant/coolant is needed at higher tensions. This is especially true with wood which can become much more abrasive when exposed to heat. The problem with adding the lubricant/coolant (often either water or oil.. but not both) is that some of the material will expand (and later shrink. The expansion requires more monitoring and adjusting. It also causes dual axis accuracy problems. I don't have a source for this other than personal experience and discussions with other hobbyists. <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:KadaganX&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:KadaganX (page does not exist)">KadaganX</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:KadaganX&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:KadaganX (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-KadaganX-2012-08-13T15:30:00.000Z-Middle_Ages" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:30, 13 August 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-KadaganX-2012-08-13T15:30:00.000Z-Middle_Ages"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-KadaganX-2012-08-13T15:30:00.000Z-Middle_Ages"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Etymology" data-mw-thread-id="h-Etymology-2013-04-18T01:01:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Etymology-2013-04-18T01:01:00.000Z"></span>Etymology<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Etymology-2013-04-18T01:01:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=2" title="Edit section: Etymology"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:01:00.000Z-Etymology"></span>How can a Latin word claim to derive from a Latin one? </p> <dl><dd><dl><dd>It can, how did WiFi come from Wireless Fiberoptic?</dd></dl></dd> <dd>ITYM "Italian" on the second one, and yes, it doesn't make sense. Dictionary.com gives the etymology as Greek via Latin, so I've updated the article accordingly. <a href="/wiki/User:DopefishJustin" title="User:DopefishJustin">DopefishJustin</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:DopefishJustin" title="User talk:DopefishJustin">(・∀・)</a> 04:47, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p><i> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Lee_Tru.&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Lee Tru. (page does not exist)">Lee</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lee_Tru." title="User talk:Lee Tru.">Tru.</a> </i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:01:00.000Z-Etymology" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:01, 18 April 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:01:00.000Z-Etymology"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:01:00.000Z-Etymology"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Human_Hair" data-mw-thread-id="h-Human_Hair-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Human_Hair-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z"></span>Human Hair<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Human_Hair-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=3" title="Edit section: Human Hair"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z-Human_Hair"></span>Can someone give a reference to the use of human hair in ballista ropes? It seems unlikely to me. --<a href="/wiki/User:Carnildo" title="User:Carnildo">Carnildo</a> 08:37, 26 Jan 2004 (UTC) </p> <dl><dd>Since no one has obliged, I've edited out all mention of human hair for now. --<a href="/wiki/User:Simetrical" title="User:Simetrical">Simetrical</a> 01:39, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)</dd></dl> <p>It is mentioned in <a href="/wiki/Salammb%C3%B4_(novel)" class="mw-redirect" title="Salammbô (novel)">Salammbô (novel)</a> by <a href="/wiki/Gustave_Flaubert" title="Gustave Flaubert">Gustave Flaubert</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Wandalstouring" title="User:Wandalstouring">Wandalstouring</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z-Human_Hair" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:20, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z-Human_Hair"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z-Human_Hair"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:02:00.000Z-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z"></span>It is true, when I get home I'll put up a ref.--<i> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Lee_Tru.&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Lee Tru. (page does not exist)">Lee</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lee_Tru." title="User talk:Lee Tru.">Tru.</a> </i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:02:00.000Z-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:02, 18 April 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:02:00.000Z-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:02:00.000Z-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:20:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Human_Hair_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-Human_Hair_2-2006-06-13T19:22:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Human_Hair_2-2006-06-13T19:22:00.000Z"></span>Human Hair<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Human_Hair_2-2006-06-13T19:22:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=4" title="Edit section: Human Hair"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:22:00.000Z-Human_Hair_2"></span>I have heard that the ropes use sinews and horse hair, but in a pinch they would use human hair. </p><p>i've heard that the hair of blonde women was favoured, but that it was useless when it got wet or humid. </p><p><br/> </p> <dl><dd>I can confirm that wet rendered the torsion system less usefull. therefore it was oiled and protected.</dd></dl> <p>blonde could refer to the length and not to the colour. Germanic women were very proud of their long hair, being part of their sex appeal. And like all Germans in these times invested a lot of time in taking care of their hair. </p> <pre><a href="/wiki/User:Wandalstouring" title="User:Wandalstouring">Wandalstouring</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:22:00.000Z-Human_Hair_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:22:00.000Z-Human_Hair_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:22:00.000Z-Human_Hair_2"></span> </pre> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?-2014-07-22T09:53:00.000Z"><span id="Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?-2014-07-22T09:53:00.000Z"></span>Longbow more powerful than a ballista?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?-2014-07-22T09:53:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=5" title="Edit section: Longbow more powerful than a ballista?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-94.66.188.221-2014-07-22T09:53:00.000Z-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?"></span>"as the .. Longbow, and eventually the Crossbow (learned from the Chinese) were more accurate and powerful" </p><p>According to what definition of "powerful" can a longbow outclass a ballista? I suggest to change that paragraph into </p><p>"as the Trebuchet and Mangonel were more powerful, while the Longbow, and eventually the Crossbow (learned from the Chinese) were more accurate." </p><p>Actually, none of these weapons had the same level of precision of the ballistae. These ancient weapons were the most precise type of catapult ever made and the most sophisticated too. It is impossible to compared the precision of catapults with bows, because bows were operated by hand. Also, it is impossible to say that some type of catapult was more powerful than others.<a href="/wiki/User:RafaelG" title="User:RafaelG">RafaelG</a> </p><p><br/> -Removed "(learned from the Chinese)", since no reference is given for this statement, which is dubious since the Romans had a crossbow (the arcuballista) and the Arabs called crossbows "Frankish" bows, suggesting it is more likely the weapon was passed to Western Europe from the Romans rather than the Chinese. </p><p>Perhaps "powerful" refers (was meant to refer) to the speed of the projectile shot. But I agree, that it doesn't seem practical to compare "power" of weapons with several magnitudes difference in between the projectiles used. (Is it like to compare a machinegun to a SCUD?)<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.66.188.221" title="Special:Contributions/94.66.188.221">94.66.188.221</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:94.66.188.221&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:94.66.188.221 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-94.66.188.221-2014-07-22T09:53:00.000Z-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:53, 22 July 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-94.66.188.221-2014-07-22T09:53:00.000Z-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-94.66.188.221-2014-07-22T09:53:00.000Z-Longbow_more_powerful_than_a_ballista?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Last_use_in_combat?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Last_use_in_combat?-2006-05-16T03:48:00.000Z"><span id="Last_use_in_combat.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Last_use_in_combat?-2006-05-16T03:48:00.000Z"></span>Last use in combat?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Last_use_in_combat?-2006-05-16T03:48:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=6" title="Edit section: Last use in combat?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-66.133.180.65-2006-05-16T03:48:00.000Z-Last_use_in_combat?"></span>Would anyone know the last time a ballista was used in combat? <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:66.133.180.65&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:66.133.180.65 (page does not exist)">66.133.180.65</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-66.133.180.65-2006-05-16T03:48:00.000Z-Last_use_in_combat?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:48, 16 May 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-66.133.180.65-2006-05-16T03:48:00.000Z-Last_use_in_combat?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-66.133.180.65-2006-05-16T03:48:00.000Z-Last_use_in_combat?"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:24:00.000Z-Last_use_in_combat?"></span>Look up the history of the <a href="/wiki/Byzantine_Empire" title="Byzantine Empire">byzantine Empire</a>. <a href="/wiki/User:Wandalstouring" title="User:Wandalstouring">Wandalstouring</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:24:00.000Z-Last_use_in_combat?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:24, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:24:00.000Z-Last_use_in_combat?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:24:00.000Z-Last_use_in_combat?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="composite_bow" data-mw-thread-id="h-composite_bow-2006-06-13T19:32:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-composite_bow-2006-06-13T19:32:00.000Z"></span>composite bow<span data-mw-comment-end="h-composite_bow-2006-06-13T19:32:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=7" title="Edit section: composite bow"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:32:00.000Z-composite_bow"></span>Gastraphetes means belly bow what does it have to do with a composite bow and how does a crossbow develop from a composite bow? Every other wiki says Gastraphetes were an early version of crossbows. <a href="/wiki/User:Wandalstouring" title="User:Wandalstouring">Wandalstouring</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:32:00.000Z-composite_bow" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:32, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:32:00.000Z-composite_bow"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:32:00.000Z-composite_bow"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Size_of_a_ballista" data-mw-thread-id="h-Size_of_a_ballista-2006-06-13T19:41:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Size_of_a_ballista-2006-06-13T19:41:00.000Z"></span>Size of a ballista<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Size_of_a_ballista-2006-06-13T19:41:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=8" title="Edit section: Size of a ballista"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:41:00.000Z-Size_of_a_ballista"></span>Main source about siege engines and ballistas: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://members.lycos.nl/onager/history.html">http://members.lycos.nl/onager/history.html</a> </p><p>The small versions were called Scorpions: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://members.lycos.nl/onager/scorpio.html">http://members.lycos.nl/onager/scorpio.html</a> <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://198.144.2.125/Siege/CatapultaPhotos/Catapulta.htm">http://198.144.2.125/Siege/CatapultaPhotos/Catapulta.htm</a> </p><p><br/> Gastrophates: <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://members.lycos.nl/onager/gastrophetes.html">http://members.lycos.nl/onager/gastrophetes.html</a> </p><p><br/> The ballista and especially the Cheiroballista were developed into small all-metall versions, a development compareable to the Medieval crossbow. </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Wandalstouring" title="User:Wandalstouring">Wandalstouring</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:41:00.000Z-Size_of_a_ballista" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:41, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:41:00.000Z-Size_of_a_ballista"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:41:00.000Z-Size_of_a_ballista"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Gastrophetes" data-mw-thread-id="h-Gastrophetes-2006-06-13T19:52:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Gastrophetes-2006-06-13T19:52:00.000Z"></span>Gastrophetes<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Gastrophetes-2006-06-13T19:52:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=9" title="Edit section: Gastrophetes"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:52:00.000Z-Gastrophetes"></span>They made a lot of improvements, and around 400 b.C., they came up with the Gastrophetes. This was a big step forward in siege engineering, since the gastrophetes (or "bellybow") could lauch an arrow further and with more power than an ordinary bow. It couldn't, however, be used for sieges against towns, since a stone wall wouldn't break down because of a little arrow. <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://members.lycos.nl/onager/history.html">http://members.lycos.nl/onager/history.html</a> </p><p>-> Gastrophetes is no siege engine and all that stuff about not being able to handle this weapon is nonsense. </p><p>The real siege engine was called oxybeles <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://members.lycos.nl/onager/oxybeles.html">http://members.lycos.nl/onager/oxybeles.html</a> </p><p><a href="/wiki/User:Wandalstouring" title="User:Wandalstouring">Wandalstouring</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:52:00.000Z-Gastrophetes" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:52:00.000Z-Gastrophetes"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Wandalstouring-2006-06-13T19:52:00.000Z-Gastrophetes"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="the_two_merge_requests" data-mw-thread-id="h-the_two_merge_requests-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-the_two_merge_requests-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z"></span>the two merge requests<span data-mw-comment-end="h-the_two_merge_requests-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=10" title="Edit section: the two merge requests"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <div class="boilerplate discussion-archived mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: var(--background-color-progressive-subtle, #f5f3ef); color: var(--color-base, inherit); overflow:auto; margin: 1em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid var(--border-color-subtle, #aaa)"> <div class="boilerplate-header"> <dl><dd><i><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z-the_two_merge_requests"></span>The following discussion is closed. <span style="color:var(--color-error, red)"><b>Please do not modify it.</b></span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.</i></dd></dl> </div> <p>The result was <b>no merger</b>. -- <a href="/wiki/User:G1ggy" class="mw-redirect" title="User:G1ggy"><span style="color:green;">G</span></a><a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:FING" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:FING"><span style="color:black;">1</span></a><a href="/wiki/User:G1ggy" class="mw-redirect" title="User:G1ggy"><span style="color:green;">ggy</span></a> <sup><a href="/wiki/User_talk:G1ggy" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:G1ggy"><span style="color:red;">Talk</span></a></sup>/<sub><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:G1ggy/Contribs&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:G1ggy/Contribs (page does not exist)">Contribs</a></sub> 09:48, 18 June 2007 (UTC) i am all for these mergers, their article are both short and under developed and they are both pretty clearly deeply related to the balista and would serve the community better by being in this article then having them stand by themselves. on top of that with the cheiroballistra there is already a section about it in this article, which covers nearly all of the same points as it's stand alone article--<a href="/wiki/User:Manwithbrisk" title="User:Manwithbrisk">Manwithbrisk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z-the_two_merge_requests" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:42, 5 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z-the_two_merge_requests"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z-the_two_merge_requests"></span> </p> <dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Headphonos-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z"></span>No merger</b> - these are separate weapons and should have their own articles {{{Keep and Expand}}}. <a href="/wiki/User:Headphonos" title="User:Headphonos">Headphonos</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Headphonos-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:14, 15 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Headphonos-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Headphonos-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Manwithbrisk-2007-02-16T06:13:00.000Z-Headphonos-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z"></span>then expand on them, but leaving them as vestigial articles only begs two responces, merge, or delete--<a href="/wiki/User:Manwithbrisk" title="User:Manwithbrisk">Manwithbrisk</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Manwithbrisk-2007-02-16T06:13:00.000Z-Headphonos-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">06:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Manwithbrisk-2007-02-16T06:13:00.000Z-Headphonos-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Manwithbrisk-2007-02-16T06:13:00.000Z-Headphonos-2007-02-15T23:14:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><b><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Mon_Vier-2007-05-10T13:29:00.000Z-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z"></span>No merger</b> - all ballistae are castapults, but not all catapults are ballistae. <a href="/wiki/User:Mon_Vier" title="User:Mon Vier">Mon Vier</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Mon_Vier-2007-05-10T13:29:00.000Z-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">13:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Mon_Vier-2007-05-10T13:29:00.000Z-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Mon_Vier-2007-05-10T13:29:00.000Z-G1ggy-2007-06-18T09:48:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div> </div><div style="clear:both;" class=""></div> <p><br/> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Broken_(?)_Link" data-mw-thread-id="h-Broken_(?)_Link-2008-03-25T09:59:00.000Z"><span id="Broken_.28.3F.29_Link"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Broken_(?)_Link-2008-03-25T09:59:00.000Z"></span>Broken (?) Link<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Broken_(?)_Link-2008-03-25T09:59:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=11" title="Edit section: Broken (?) Link"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Basesurge-2008-03-25T09:59:00.000Z-Broken_(?)_Link"></span>Under "The cheiroballistra/Manuballista": the external link returns a "403 Forbidden" error. </p><p><a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Basesurge&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Basesurge (page does not exist)">Basesurge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Basesurge" title="User talk:Basesurge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Basesurge-2008-03-25T09:59:00.000Z-Broken_(?)_Link" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:59, 25 March 2008 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Basesurge-2008-03-25T09:59:00.000Z-Broken_(?)_Link"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Basesurge-2008-03-25T09:59:00.000Z-Broken_(?)_Link"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="The_Missing_Link" data-mw-thread-id="h-The_Missing_Link-2010-11-10T23:30:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-The_Missing_Link-2010-11-10T23:30:00.000Z"></span>The Missing Link<span data-mw-comment-end="h-The_Missing_Link-2010-11-10T23:30:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=12" title="Edit section: The Missing Link"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Outofthewoods-2010-11-10T23:30:00.000Z-The_Missing_Link"></span>Please note, the link for "skeins" only goes to a disambiguation that has no relevant link from there. I would dearly love to know what a skein is in this context so perhaps someone would kindly put a bracketted sub explanation next to the actual word in the opening paragraph or better still, make a whole new entry for it in the encyclopedia and fix a link to it. Kindest regards to all <a href="/wiki/User:Outofthewoods" title="User:Outofthewoods">Outofthewoods</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Outofthewoods" title="User talk:Outofthewoods">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Outofthewoods-2010-11-10T23:30:00.000Z-The_Missing_Link" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:30, 10 November 2010 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Outofthewoods-2010-11-10T23:30:00.000Z-The_Missing_Link"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Outofthewoods-2010-11-10T23:30:00.000Z-The_Missing_Link"></span> </p><p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-94.66.188.221-2014-07-22T10:04:00.000Z-The_Missing_Link"></span>+1: I would like to add my one to this request. "Skeins" links to a very generic axplanation of any kind of fibres curled up in loops or something similar, it applies mostly to knitting yarn. I understand, that in case of ballistae some kind of animal, or herbal fibre could be used in some kind of string, or rope that could be twisted and then spring back when released, but some more technical details would be definitely wellcome.<a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/94.66.188.221" title="Special:Contributions/94.66.188.221">94.66.188.221</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:94.66.188.221&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:94.66.188.221 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-94.66.188.221-2014-07-22T10:04:00.000Z-The_Missing_Link" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">10:04, 22 July 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-94.66.188.221-2014-07-22T10:04:00.000Z-The_Missing_Link"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-94.66.188.221-2014-07-22T10:04:00.000Z-The_Missing_Link"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Longbows_as_sniper_weapons" data-mw-thread-id="h-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z"></span>Longbows as sniper weapons<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=13" title="Edit section: Longbows as sniper weapons"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Obolisk0430-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons"></span>At the bottem of the page, it says that the ballista was replaced with crossbows and longbows as sniper weapons. First off, I am fairly certain that longbows were primarily used in only a few countries. Additionally, I know for a fact that medeival archers fired as a unit, while targeting other units, not as individual men firing at other men. I belive the same can be said for men using crossbows, but I am not completely sure.---Obolisk0430 <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Obolisk0430&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Obolisk0430 (page does not exist)">Obolisk0430</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Obolisk0430" title="User talk:Obolisk0430">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/Obolisk0430" title="Special:Contributions/Obolisk0430">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Obolisk0430-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:28, 17 October 2011 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Obolisk0430-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Obolisk0430-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z-Longbows_as_sniper_weapons"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:06:00.000Z-Obolisk0430-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z"></span>The crossbow was more of a sniper weapon than the longbow due to the fact that a long bow had to be fired right after drawing and the crossbow could not and the crossbow was more powerful.--<i> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Lee_Tru.&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Lee Tru. (page does not exist)">Lee</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lee_Tru." title="User talk:Lee Tru.">Tru.</a> </i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:06:00.000Z-Obolisk0430-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:06, 18 April 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:06:00.000Z-Obolisk0430-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:06:00.000Z-Obolisk0430-2011-10-17T16:28:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Blocking" data-mw-thread-id="h-Blocking-2012-03-19T16:54:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Blocking-2012-03-19T16:54:00.000Z"></span>Blocking<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Blocking-2012-03-19T16:54:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=14" title="Edit section: Blocking"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-89.168.99.161-2012-03-19T16:54:00.000Z-Blocking"></span>You seem to have blocked people because they vandalised thus talk page. User zchad also did this yesterday <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/89.168.99.161" title="Special:Contributions/89.168.99.161">89.168.99.161</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:89.168.99.161" title="User talk:89.168.99.161">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-89.168.99.161-2012-03-19T16:54:00.000Z-Blocking" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:54, 19 March 2012 (UTC)</a></span><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-89.168.99.161-2012-03-19T16:54:00.000Z-Blocking"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-89.168.99.161-2012-03-19T16:54:00.000Z-Blocking"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Lack_of_In-Line_Citations" data-mw-thread-id="h-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations-2012-04-24T03:46:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations-2012-04-24T03:46:00.000Z"></span>Lack of In-Line Citations<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations-2012-04-24T03:46:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=15" title="Edit section: Lack of In-Line Citations"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-TriesToFixGrammar-2012-04-24T03:46:00.000Z-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations"></span>In my opinion, there should be more in-text citations. Past the opening/overview paragraph, there are only one or two citations, and it is unclear where the information is originating from. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:TriesToFixGrammar" title="User:TriesToFixGrammar">TriesToFixGrammar</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:TriesToFixGrammar&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:TriesToFixGrammar (page does not exist)">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/TriesToFixGrammar" title="Special:Contributions/TriesToFixGrammar">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-TriesToFixGrammar-2012-04-24T03:46:00.000Z-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:46, 24 April 2012 (UTC)</a></span></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-TriesToFixGrammar-2012-04-24T03:46:00.000Z-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-TriesToFixGrammar-2012-04-24T03:46:00.000Z-Lack_of_In-Line_Citations"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Ballistae_vs_ballistas" data-mw-thread-id="h-Ballistae_vs_ballistas-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Ballistae_vs_ballistas-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z"></span>Ballistae vs ballistas<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Ballistae_vs_ballistas-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=16" title="Edit section: Ballistae vs ballistas"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-89.137.186.101-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z-Ballistae_vs_ballistas"></span>In the heading section it is said that the plural form is "ballistas" while in the text, we can see "roman ballistae". Now which one of them is correct? As far as I know, if the word is of Latin origin, the plural should be ballistae, and maybe, with an accepted form (especially in US) of ballistas (MS Word gives me ballistae). But English is not my first language so I'm not in a position to correct this. Apass <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/89.137.186.101" title="Special:Contributions/89.137.186.101">89.137.186.101</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:89.137.186.101&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:89.137.186.101 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-89.137.186.101-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z-Ballistae_vs_ballistas" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">22:24, 21 October 2012 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-89.137.186.101-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z-Ballistae_vs_ballistas"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-89.137.186.101-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z-Ballistae_vs_ballistas"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:08:00.000Z-89.137.186.101-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z"></span>Ballistae is the proper Latin plural form however (sadly) that is becoming more and more un-importaint.--<i> <a href="/w/index.php?title=User:Lee_Tru.&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User:Lee Tru. (page does not exist)">Lee</a> <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Lee_Tru." title="User talk:Lee Tru.">Tru.</a> </i> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:08:00.000Z-89.137.186.101-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">01:08, 18 April 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:08:00.000Z-89.137.186.101-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:08:00.000Z-89.137.186.101-2012-10-21T22:24:00.000Z"></span> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Richard_Keatinge-2013-04-18T11:38:00.000Z-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:08:00.000Z"></span>But still a decisive point, it is a Latin word after all and the Latin plural is generally still used for this word and others describing Roman things. I !vote to continue with "ballistae". <a href="/wiki/User:Richard_Keatinge" title="User:Richard Keatinge">Richard Keatinge</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Richard_Keatinge" title="User talk:Richard Keatinge">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Richard_Keatinge-2013-04-18T11:38:00.000Z-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:08:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">11:38, 18 April 2013 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Richard_Keatinge-2013-04-18T11:38:00.000Z-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:08:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Richard_Keatinge-2013-04-18T11:38:00.000Z-Lee_Tru.-2013-04-18T01:08:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Earliest_evidence_of_ballista" data-mw-thread-id="h-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z"></span>Earliest evidence of ballista<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=17" title="Edit section: Earliest evidence of ballista"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Battling_McGook-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista"></span>While King Uzziah reigned around 800 BCE, Chronicles is believed to have been written around 300-400 BCE, a time period where ballistae were already established. Some doubt the claim, and that it was simply attributing inventions of modern wonders to him without any actual evidence. Was it oral history? Written and copied? Just storytelling? </p><p>A competing claim is that Ajatasatru had a catapult around 500 BCE. Again, this is based on Jain religious texts believed to have been written roughly the same time as Chronicles (300-400 BCE). However the evidence here is even thinner, as a literal translation ends up with something like "by the divine influence of the Indras even the pebbles, straws, leaves hurled by Ajatasatru's men fell like rocks on the army of Chetaka". So either scholars who make a claim of catapults based on this are reading between the lines, or there's other references elsewhere that I haven't seen. At any rate, the problem is the same as with the biblical reference: by the time these stories were written, catapults were well-established, and the historical claim is suspect. </p><p>There's also the claim of a ballista appearing in a 9th century BCE relief from Nimrud. However this is based on an 1875 interpretation of an 1849 drawing of the relief, and the drawing I've seen looks nothing at all (and I mean NOTHING AT ALL) like a ballista. It's possible that this was a numbering error and some other drawing was being referred to. But I've never seen any relief or drawing of a relief from there that clearly looked like a ballista. <a href="/wiki/User:Battling_McGook" title="User:Battling McGook">Battling McGook</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Battling_McGook" title="User talk:Battling McGook">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Battling_McGook-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">02:33, 19 October 2014 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Battling_McGook-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Battling_McGook-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z-Earliest_evidence_of_ballista"></span> </p> <dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T09:10:00.000Z-Battling_McGook-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z"></span>Find some <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:RS" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:RS">Reliable Sources</a> pertaining to this doubt and you can add some commentary on it. As it is though, without such sources, any additions like that would be <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:OR" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:OR">Original Research</a>. <span style="font-family:Garamond;font-variant:small-caps;color: maroon;">Jcmcc</span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jcmcc450" title="User talk:Jcmcc450">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T09:10:00.000Z-Battling_McGook-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">09:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T09:10:00.000Z-Battling_McGook-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T09:10:00.000Z-Battling_McGook-2014-10-19T02:33:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Battling_McGook-2015-04-13T15:39:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T09:10:00.000Z"></span>As it stands now the article says near the top "The earliest mention of ballista in literature occurs in the Bible, as invented and used under the reign of king Uzziah..." This is problematic, as the broad ranges in which either Chronicles or the Jain texts might have been written could reasonably place the Jain texts as earlier. This at least should be fixed.</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>As far as original research, it's never been clear to me where to draw the line. Most of what I've described above can be factually derived from the sources. The date ranges for the writings of the texts are all over the map though, and my estimates above ARE based on my own qualitative opinions of various sources. I could certainly merely reference various sources on possible times of writing. But here's where I'm confused: if I say that the actual evidence for catapults can't be dated back to the events of the original stories, is this me drawing a conclusion, or is this a simple 2+2=4 statement of the obvious, that texts written 200-400 years after the events in question can not be take as evidence of those events?</dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd>This is, of course, why I put all this here in the first place, instead of just jumping in and editing the article. <a href="/wiki/User:Battling_McGook" title="User:Battling McGook">Battling McGook</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Battling_McGook" title="User talk:Battling McGook">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Battling_McGook-2015-04-13T15:39:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T09:10:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">15:39, 13 April 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Battling_McGook-2015-04-13T15:39:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T09:10:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Battling_McGook-2015-04-13T15:39:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T09:10:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z-Battling_McGook-2015-04-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span>Here in lies the problem: If you take source 1 that states that Chronicles was written around 400 BC, then take the source that says the bible says X about ballistae, then combine the two to create a conclusion (i.e. "its possible that X happened because it makes sense <i>to me</i>") you have created a <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Synth" class="mw-redirect" title="Wikipedia:Synth">Synthesis</a>. Even though you are <i>probably</i> right, without a source we can't add it to a tertiary source without a secondary source to back it. <span style="font-family:Garamond;font-variant:small-caps;color: maroon;">Jcmcc</span> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Jcmcc450" title="User talk:Jcmcc450">Talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z-Battling_McGook-2015-04-13T15:39:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:18, 13 April 2015 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z-Battling_McGook-2015-04-13T15:39:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z-Battling_McGook-2015-04-13T15:39:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yuhani-2018-08-21T23:28:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z"></span>Why is that passage in the article anyway? It is unsourced and it contradicts what is said later about the history of the ballista. <a href="/wiki/User:Yuhani" title="User:Yuhani">Yuhani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yuhani" title="User talk:Yuhani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Yuhani-2018-08-21T23:28:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:28, 21 August 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yuhani-2018-08-21T23:28:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yuhani-2018-08-21T23:28:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><dl><dd><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Yuhani-2018-08-21T23:48:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z"></span>On second thought, I just removed it. <a href="/wiki/User:Yuhani" title="User:Yuhani">Yuhani</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Yuhani" title="User talk:Yuhani">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Yuhani-2018-08-21T23:48:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">23:48, 21 August 2018 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Yuhani-2018-08-21T23:48:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Yuhani-2018-08-21T23:48:00.000Z-Jcmcc450-2015-04-13T20:18:00.000Z"></span></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl></dd></dl> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified-2016-02-27T16:34:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified-2016-02-27T16:34:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified-2016-02-27T16:34:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=18" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Cyberbot_II-2016-02-27T16:34:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, </p><p>I have just added archive links to one external link on <a href="/wiki/Ballista" title="Ballista">Ballista</a>. 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I made the following changes: </p> <ul><li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20160102003851/http://www.frapanthers.com/teachers/white/siege_gallery.htm">http://web.archive.org/web/20160102003851/http://www.frapanthers.com/teachers/white/siege_gallery.htm</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.frapanthers.com/teachers/white/siege_gallery.htm">http://www.frapanthers.com/teachers/white/siege_gallery.htm</a></li></ul> <p>When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the <i>checked</i> parameter below to <b>true</b> to let others know. </p><p>This message was posted before February 2018. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_145#Disable_messages_left_by_InternetArchiveBot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145">After February 2018</a>, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by <b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b>. 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This message is updated dynamically through the template <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Source_check" title="Template:Source check">source check</a>}}</code> <small>(last update: 5 June 2024)</small>. </p> <ul><li>If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=reportfalsepositive">this tool</a>.</li> <li>If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=manageurlsingle">this tool</a>.</li></ul> <p>Cheers.—<a href="/wiki/User:Cyberbot_II" title="User:Cyberbot II"><sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II</sup></a><small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS"><a href="/wiki/User_talk:Cyberbot_II" class="mw-redirect" title="User talk:Cyberbot II"><span style="color:green">Talk to my owner</span></a>:Online</sub></small> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Cyberbot_II-2016-02-27T16:34:00.000Z-External_links_modified" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:34, 27 February 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Cyberbot_II-2016-02-27T16:34:00.000Z-External_links_modified"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Cyberbot_II-2016-02-27T16:34:00.000Z-External_links_modified"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="External_links_modified_2" data-mw-thread-id="h-External_links_modified_2-2016-10-24T18:38:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-External_links_modified_2-2016-10-24T18:38:00.000Z"></span>External links modified<span data-mw-comment-end="h-External_links_modified_2-2016-10-24T18:38:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=19" title="Edit section: External links modified"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2016-10-24T18:38:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2"></span>Hello fellow Wikipedians, </p><p>I have just modified 5 external links on <a href="/wiki/Ballista" title="Ballista">Ballista</a>. Please take a moment to review <a class="external text" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=746007671">my edit</a>. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit <a href="/wiki/User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot" title="User:Cyberpower678/FaQs">this simple FaQ</a> for additional information. I made the following changes: </p> <ul><li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150219043325/http://archive.museumoflondon.org.uk/Londinium/Today/vizrom/01+wall.htm">https://web.archive.org/web/20150219043325/http://archive.museumoflondon.org.uk/Londinium/Today/vizrom/01+wall.htm</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://archive.museumoflondon.org.uk/Londinium/Today/vizrom/01+wall.htm">http://archive.museumoflondon.org.uk/Londinium/Today/vizrom/01+wall.htm</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20101123220013/http://www.howtobuildcatapults.com:80/ballista.html">https://web.archive.org/web/20101123220013/http://www.howtobuildcatapults.com:80/ballista.html</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.howtobuildcatapults.com/ballista.html">http://www.howtobuildcatapults.com/ballista.html</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20110119043116/http://www.howtobuildcatapults.com:80/roman_ballista_plans.html">https://web.archive.org/web/20110119043116/http://www.howtobuildcatapults.com:80/roman_ballista_plans.html</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.howtobuildcatapults.com/roman_ballista_plans.html">http://www.howtobuildcatapults.com/roman_ballista_plans.html</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120304011530/http://www.carpenteroakandwoodland.com/timber-engineering/the-downright-unusual/building-a-ballista-roman-war-machine">https://web.archive.org/web/20120304011530/http://www.carpenteroakandwoodland.com/timber-engineering/the-downright-unusual/building-a-ballista-roman-war-machine</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.carpenteroakandwoodland.com/timber-engineering/the-downright-unusual/building-a-ballista-roman-war-machine">http://www.carpenteroakandwoodland.com/timber-engineering/the-downright-unusual/building-a-ballista-roman-war-machine</a></li> <li>Added archive <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20090326124757/http://www.frapanthers.com/teachers/white/galleries/roman_artillary/RomanPalintonePlan.jpg">https://web.archive.org/web/20090326124757/http://www.frapanthers.com/teachers/white/galleries/roman_artillary/RomanPalintonePlan.jpg</a> to <a rel="nofollow" class="external free" href="http://www.frapanthers.com/teachers/white/galleries/roman_artillary/RomanPalintonePlan.jpg">http://www.frapanthers.com/teachers/white/galleries/roman_artillary/RomanPalintonePlan.jpg</a></li></ul> <p>When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the <i>checked</i> parameter below to <b>true</b> or <b>failed</b> to let others know (documentation at <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Sourcecheck" class="mw-redirect" title="Template:Sourcecheck">Sourcecheck</a>}}</code>). </p><p>This message was posted before February 2018. <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)/Archive_145#Disable_messages_left_by_InternetArchiveBot" title="Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 145">After February 2018</a>, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by <b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b>. 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This message is updated dynamically through the template <code>{{<a href="/wiki/Template:Source_check" title="Template:Source check">source check</a>}}</code> <small>(last update: 5 June 2024)</small>. </p> <ul><li>If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=reportfalsepositive">this tool</a>.</li> <li>If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with <a rel="nofollow" class="external text" href="https://iabot.wmcloud.org/index.php?page=manageurlsingle">this tool</a>.</li></ul> <p>Cheers.—<a href="/wiki/User:InternetArchiveBot" title="User:InternetArchiveBot"><b><span style="color:darkgrey;font-family:monospace">InternetArchiveBot</span></b></a> <span style="color:green;font-family:Rockwell">(<a href="/wiki/User_talk:InternetArchiveBot" title="User talk:InternetArchiveBot">Report bug</a>)</span> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-InternetArchiveBot-2016-10-24T18:38:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">18:38, 24 October 2016 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-InternetArchiveBot-2016-10-24T18:38:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-InternetArchiveBot-2016-10-24T18:38:00.000Z-External_links_modified_2"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Physics?" data-mw-thread-id="h-Physics?-2017-01-23T20:27:00.000Z"><span id="Physics.3F"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Physics?-2017-01-23T20:27:00.000Z"></span>Physics?<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Physics?-2017-01-23T20:27:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=20" title="Edit section: Physics?"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-Snori-2017-01-23T20:27:00.000Z-Physics?"></span>This part seems very muddled to me: </p> <dl><dd>"<i>The advantage of this new technology was the fast relaxation time of this system. Thus it was possible to shoot lighter projectiles with higher velocities over a longer distance. For an oxybeles, the rules of a torsion weapon demanded that the more energy could be stored, the thicker the prod had to be and the heavier the projectile, to increase the amount of stored energy delivered to the projectile.</i>"</dd></dl> <p>Anyone able to clarify/fix? (for one, surely a torsion weapon doesn't <i>have</i> a prod)- oh, and a reference would be nice :-) <a href="/wiki/User:Snori" title="User:Snori">Snori</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:Snori" title="User talk:Snori">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-Snori-2017-01-23T20:27:00.000Z-Physics?" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">20:27, 23 January 2017 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-Snori-2017-01-23T20:27:00.000Z-Physics?"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-Snori-2017-01-23T20:27:00.000Z-Physics?"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Projectile_name" data-mw-thread-id="h-Projectile_name-2017-12-19T16:40:00.000Z"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Projectile_name-2017-12-19T16:40:00.000Z"></span>Projectile name<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Projectile_name-2017-12-19T16:40:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=21" title="Edit section: Projectile name"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-38.111.255.98-2017-12-19T16:40:00.000Z-Projectile_name"></span>The projectile for the ballista is constantly refered to as a "missile". A missile is a guided rocket-propelled warhead. Someone fix this please. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/38.111.255.98" title="Special:Contributions/38.111.255.98">38.111.255.98</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:38.111.255.98#top" title="User talk:38.111.255.98">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-38.111.255.98-2017-12-19T16:40:00.000Z-Projectile_name" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">16:40, 19 December 2017 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-38.111.255.98-2017-12-19T16:40:00.000Z-Projectile_name"><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-38.111.255.98-2017-12-19T16:40:00.000Z-Projectile_name"></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id=""offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry"" data-mw-thread-id="h-"offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry"-2019-12-18T03:17:00.000Z"><span id=".22offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry.22"></span><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-"offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry"-2019-12-18T03:17:00.000Z"></span>"offering much greater efficiency over tension-based weaponry"<span data-mw-comment-end="h-"offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry"-2019-12-18T03:17:00.000Z"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=22" title="Edit section: "offering much greater efficiency over tension-based weaponry""><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-David_Ransford_Ingham-2019-12-18T03:17:00.000Z-"offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry""></span>I promoted this objection to <i>dubious</i> because I believe that the efficiency of bows can be too high for anything to be "much higher". For instance, native American bows were sometimes backed with sinew, which is very elastic. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding <a href="/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures" title="Wikipedia:Signatures">unsigned</a> comment added by <a href="/wiki/User:David_Ransford_Ingham" class="mw-redirect" title="User:David Ransford Ingham">David Ransford Ingham</a> (<a href="/wiki/User_talk:David_Ransford_Ingham#top" title="User talk:David Ransford Ingham">talk</a> • <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/David_Ransford_Ingham" title="Special:Contributions/David Ransford Ingham">contribs</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-David_Ransford_Ingham-2019-12-18T03:17:00.000Z-"offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry"" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">03:17, 18 December 2019 (UTC)</a></small><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" data-mw-thread-id="c-David_Ransford_Ingham-2019-12-18T03:17:00.000Z-"offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry""><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">[</span><a class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-reply" role="button" tabindex="0" href="">reply</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-bracket">]</span></span><span data-mw-comment-end="c-David_Ransford_Ingham-2019-12-18T03:17:00.000Z-"offering_much_greater_efficiency_over_tension-based_weaponry""></span> </p> <div class="mw-heading mw-heading2 ext-discussiontools-init-section"><h2 id="Terminology" data-mw-thread-id="h-Terminology-20230130195700"><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="h-Terminology-20230130195700"></span>Terminology<span data-mw-comment-end="h-Terminology-20230130195700"></span></h2><span class="mw-editsection"><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">[</span><a href="/w/index.php?title=Talk:Ballista&action=edit&section=23" title="Edit section: Terminology"><span>edit</span></a><span class="mw-editsection-bracket">]</span></span><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-bar"><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-metadata"></div><div class="ext-discussiontools-init-section-actions"></div></div></div> <p><span data-mw-comment-start="" id="c-107.13.226.144-20230130195700-Terminology"></span>Suggest using the non-religious abbreviation "BCE," rather than "BC." <a href="/wiki/Special:Contributions/107.13.226.144" title="Special:Contributions/107.13.226.144">107.13.226.144</a> (<a href="/w/index.php?title=User_talk:107.13.226.144&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="User talk:107.13.226.144 (page does not exist)">talk</a>) <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ballista#c-107.13.226.144-20230130195700-Terminology" class="ext-discussiontools-init-timestamplink">19:57, 30 January 2023 (UTC)</a><span class="ext-discussiontools-init-replylink-buttons" 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