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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8" standalone="yes"?> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"><html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8" /><title>LKML: Daniel Phillips: Re: Kernel SCM saga..</title><link href="/css/message.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" /><link href="/css/wrap.css" rel="alternate stylesheet" type="text/css" title="wrap" /><link href="/css/nowrap.css" rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" title="nowrap" /><link href="/favicon.ico" rel="shortcut icon" /><script src="/js/simple-calendar.js" type="text/javascript"></script><script src="/js/styleswitcher.js" type="text/javascript"></script><link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="lkml.org : last 100 messages" href="/rss.php" /><link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="lkml.org : last messages by Daniel Phillips" href="/groupie.php?aid=481" /><script> var _paq = window._paq = window._paq || []; /* tracker methods like "setCustomDimension" should be called before "trackPageView" */ _paq.push(["setDoNotTrack", true]); _paq.push(["disableCookies"]); _paq.push(['trackPageView']); _paq.push(['enableLinkTracking']); (function() { var u="//m.lkml.org/"; _paq.push(['setTrackerUrl', u+'matomo.php']); _paq.push(['setSiteId', '1']); var d=document, g=d.createElement('script'), s=d.getElementsByTagName('script')[0]; g.async=true; g.src=u+'matomo.js'; s.parentNode.insertBefore(g,s); })(); </script></head><body onload="es.jasper.simpleCalendar.init();" itemscope="itemscope" itemtype="http://schema.org/BlogPosting"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tr><td width="180" align="center"><a href="/"><img style="border:0;width:135px;height:32px" src="/images/toprowlk.gif" alt="lkml.org" /></a></td><td width="32">聽</td><td class="nb"><div><a class="nb" href="/lkml"> [lkml]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/2005"> [2005]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/2005/4"> [Apr]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/2005/4/7"> [7]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/last100"> [last100]</a> 聽 <a href="/rss.php"><img src="/images/rss-or.gif" border="0" alt="RSS Feed" /></a></div><div>Views: <a href="#" class="nowrap" onclick="setActiveStyleSheet('wrap');return false;">[wrap]</a><a href="#" class="wrap" onclick="setActiveStyleSheet('nowrap');return false;">[no wrap]</a> 聽 <a class="nb" href="/lkml/mheaders/2005/4/7/190" onclick="this.href='/lkml/headers'+'/2005/4/7/190';">[headers]</a>聽 <a href="/lkml/bounce/2005/4/7/190">[forward]</a>聽 </div></td><td width="32">聽</td></tr><tr><td valign="top"><div class="es-jasper-simpleCalendar" baseurl="/lkml/"></div><div class="threadlist">Messages in this thread</div><ul class="threadlist"><li class="root"><a href="/lkml/2005/4/6/121">First message in thread</a></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/150">Linus Torvalds</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/175">Daniel Phillips</a></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/176">Al Viro</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/185">Linus Torvalds</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/192">=?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rn?= Engel</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/199">Daniel Phillips</a></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/237">Arjan van de Ven</a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/326">Jeff Garzik</a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/188">Bartlomiej Zolnierkiewicz</a></li><li class="origin"><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/197">Daniel Phillips</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/197">Dmitry Yusupov</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/7/200">Daniel Phillips</a></li></ul></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/8/198">Jon Masters</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/8/274">Daniel Phillips</a></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/8/289">Roman Zippel</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/8/299">Tupshin Harper</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/8/314">Roman Zippel</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/8/327">Tupshin Harper</a></li></ul></li></ul></li><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/9/79">"Eric D. Mudama"</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/9/85">Roman Zippel</a><ul><li><a href="/lkml/2005/4/9/100">Ray Lee</a></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></li></ul></td><td width="32" rowspan="2" class="c" valign="top"><img src="/images/icornerl.gif" width="32" height="32" alt="/" /></td><td class="c" rowspan="2" valign="top" style="padding-top: 1em"><table><tr><td><table><tr><td class="lp">From</td><td class="rp" itemprop="author">Daniel Phillips <></td></tr><tr><td class="lp">Subject</td><td class="rp" itemprop="name">Re: Kernel SCM saga..</td></tr><tr><td class="lp">Date</td><td class="rp" itemprop="datePublished">Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:54:34 -0400</td></tr></table></td><td></td></tr></table><pre itemprop="articleBody">On Thursday 07 April 2005 13:10, Al Viro wrote:<br />> The point being, both history and well, publishable result can be expressed<br />> as series of small steps, but they are not the same thing. So far all I've<br />> seen in the area (and that includes BK) is heavily biased towards history<br />> part and attempts to use this stuff for manipulating patch series turn into<br />> fighting the tool.<br />><br />> I'd *love* to see something that can handle both - preferably with<br />> history of reordering, etc. being kept. IOW, not just a tree of changesets<br />> but a lattice - with multiple paths leading to the same node. So far<br />> I've seen nothing of that kind ;-/<br /><br />Which is a perfect demonstration of why the scm tool has to be free/open <br />source. We should never have had to plead with BitMover to extend BK in a <br />direction like that, but instead, just get the source and make it do it, like <br />any other open source project.<br /><br />Three years ago, there was no fully working open source distributed scm code <br />base to use as a starting point, so extending BK would have been the only <br />easy alternative. But since then the situation has changed. There are now <br />several working code bases to provide a good starting point: Monotone, Arch, <br />SVK, Bazaar-ng and others.<br /><br />Sure, there are quibbles about all of those, but right now is not the time for <br />quibbling, because a functional replacement for BK is needed in roughly two <br />months, capable of losslessly importing the kernel version graph. It only <br />has to support a subset of BK functionality, e.g., pulling and cloning. It <br />is ok to be a little slow so long as it is not pathetically slow. The <br />purpose of the interim solution is just to get the patch flow process back <br />online.<br /><br />The key is the _lossless_ part. So long as the interim solution imports the <br />metadata losslessly, we have the flexibility to switch to a better solution <br />later, on short notice and without much pain.<br /><br />So I propose that everybody who is interested, pick one of the above projects <br />and join it, to help get it to the point of being able to losslessly import <br />the version graph. Given the importance, I think that _all_ viable <br />alternatives need to be worked on in parallel, so that two months from now we <br />have several viable options.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Daniel<br />-<br />To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-kernel" in<br />the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org<br />More majordomo info at <a href="http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html">http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html</a><br />Please read the FAQ at <a href="http://www.tux.org/lkml/">http://www.tux.org/lkml/</a><br /><br /></pre></td><td width="32" rowspan="2" class="c" valign="top"><img src="/images/icornerr.gif" width="32" height="32" alt="\" /></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="bottom"> 聽 </td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="bottom">聽</td><td class="c" valign="bottom" style="padding-bottom: 0px"><img src="/images/bcornerl.gif" width="32" height="32" alt="\" /></td><td class="c">聽</td><td class="c" valign="bottom" style="padding-bottom: 0px"><img src="/images/bcornerr.gif" width="32" height="32" alt="/" /></td></tr><tr><td align="right" valign="top" colspan="2"> 聽 </td><td class="lm">Last update: 2005-04-07 20:00 聽聽 [from the cache]<br />漏2003-2020 <a href="http://blog.jasper.es/"><span itemprop="editor">Jasper Spaans</span></a>|hosted at <a href="https://www.digitalocean.com/?refcode=9a8e99d24cf9">Digital Ocean</a> and my Meterkast|<a href="http://blog.jasper.es/categories.html#lkml-ref">Read the blog</a></td><td>聽</td></tr></table><script language="javascript" src="/js/styleswitcher.js" type="text/javascript"></script></body></html>