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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i9" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to python-dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i4" role="region"><div dir="ltr"><br><div>We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:</span><br></div></div></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div>(The difference is in the whitespace around the *).</div><div><br></div><div>At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc.</div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"><div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div>It is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,Ml6uvMd0BQAJ;12"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i27" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Irit Katriel, python-dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i22" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 16:55, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev <br><<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better: <br>> <br>> 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e: <br>> 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e: <br>> <br>> (The difference is in the whitespace around the *). <br> <br></div>I prefer (1). I never liked C declarations where the * was attached to <br>the type rather than the variable, and I have the same dislike here. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>> At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc. <br> <br></div>Having said the above, it's a matter of taste/preference, so I think <br>that allowing both is the correct thing to do. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>> It is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested. <br> <br></div>Let's stick with "except *". It doesn't seem productive to have <br>another round of bikeshedding at this point, unless there's a really <br>compelling technical reason (i.e., something significantly more than <br>mere bikeshedding). <br> <br>Paul <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836181000&usg=AOvVaw1cG85bgNoNLqT97yMh1pUl">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BZ55ZMS5S5E7KPNP7AR7N2BSA35KVKF3/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BZ55ZMS5S5E7KPNP7AR7N2BSA35KVKF3/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836181000&usg=AOvVaw04hoD2utnILxQRU44QGf0L">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/BZ55ZMS5S5E7KPNP7AR7N2BSA35KVKF3/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,EIMXW3R3BQAJ;15"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; mouseup:v4KoQ; keydown:v4KoQ;AHmuwe:mpYVcf;O22p3e:jmJIU;K7NtBe:f7gSD;OXWwLe:cpXlEe;wlB9we:PTiTyd;pQRm0e:pyCc2c" soy-skip ssk='6:CWF4kd'></div></div></div></section><section class="BkrUxb" jscontroller="ywEdOe" data-doc-id="2OPLiaB3BQAJ" data-subject="[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting" data-is-first="false" data-author="Jim J. Jewett" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; keydown:hXsouf; click:mHokFf(A9KrYd),gfTIJc(yjbGtf),hXsouf;" tabindex="0" aria-expanded="true" role="listitem"><div class="eH2Xlc" tabindex="-1"><div class="oXnYGc"><div class=" Dyb9Ge" aria-hidden="true"><div class="tGPUJe"><div class="xPx9xc Ajdkue"><img src="//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXfIr_yxJLgRccY2x6Ei1m69nJHN3rrzcd7afe5UNalg38qQg=s40-c" alt="Jim J. Jewett's profile photo" role="presentation"></div></div></div><div class="X7AGAf"><div class="UZ2tvc" jsname="A9KrYd"><div class="NcB7hc"><div class="LgTNRd"><h3 class="s1f8Zd" id="i28">Jim J. Jewett</h3></div><span class="oXzbyc">unread,</span><div class="ELCJ4d"><span class="zX2W9c">Oct 4, 2021, 12:40:43 AM</span><span class="Rrziwd">10/4/21</span><div jscontroller="XyWitb" jsaction="JIbuQc:nfEq0c(LgbsSe)" class="jX3HFe c5jofc" data-group-email="dev-python@googlegroups.com" data-conv-id="G3p9_jovyus" data-starred="false" data-message-id="2OPLiaB3BQAJ"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db pzr7Cc RDPZE" jslog="82178; track:JIbuQc" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="LgbsSe" aria-label="Not starred" aria-disabled="true" tabindex="-1" data-tooltip="Not starred" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc Y995Ff" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db c5jofc RDPZE" jslog="82347; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i39" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i34" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote: <br>> We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better: <br>> <br>> 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e: <br> <br></div>That looks like you're unpacking the tuple (E1, E2), and that's just <br>misleading and wrong. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>> 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e: <br> <br></div>That looks like it is the "except" keyword which is special, not the <br>tuple. If we're going to have yet another meaning for star <br>(multiplication, replication, unpacking, powers, wildcard imports...) <br>then I vote for 2. <br> <br>But Thomas Grainger's comment about match semantics got me thinking. I <br>think his suggestion is a bit too verbose, but how do people feel about <br>borrowing the vertical line and using it like this: <br> <br> except| E as e: <br> except| (E1, E2) as e: <br> <br>Again, it's attached to the except keyword, to indicate that it's the <br>keyword which is special, not a unary prefix operator on the E. <br> <br>The vertical line is suggestive of grouping something with a box around <br>it: <br> <br> +-----------------+ <br> | group of things | <br> +-----------------+ <br> <br>and of the lines used in tracebacks shown in the PEP. So the output <br>helps remind you of the syntax. <br> <br> <br> <br>-- <br>Steve <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836182000&usg=AOvVaw3_2RkOcCaQAsvuCoqpLec3">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EA7E3EGQ6WB5O3ITPTN53C4CMFHDLBFK/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EA7E3EGQ6WB5O3ITPTN53C4CMFHDLBFK/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836182000&usg=AOvVaw0yHYhDp7pNzfuCOAMoGakd">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/EA7E3EGQ6WB5O3ITPTN53C4CMFHDLBFK/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i45" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Steven D'Aprano, pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i40" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>> On 3 Oct 2021, at 18:37, Steven D'Aprano <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">st...@pearwood.info</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote: <br>>> We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better: <br>>> <br>>> 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e: <br>> <br>> That looks like you're unpacking the tuple (E1, E2), and that's just <br>> misleading and wrong. <br> <br></div>Interestingly, IIRC this was the original intention: `except *E as e` means you're unpacking E from some group. <br>I agree this is a somewhat convoluted analogy and it breaks down in the presence of a tuple of exception names. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br> <br>>> 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e: <br>> <br></div><div class="DTXlsb">> But Thomas Grainger's comment about match semantics got me thinking. <br> <br></div>Uh oh ;-) <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br> <br>> I think his suggestion is a bit too verbose, but how do people feel about <br>> borrowing the vertical line and using it like this: <br>> <br>> except| E as e: <br>> except| (E1, E2) as e: <br> <br> <br></div>-1 <br> <br>If I could read the vertical line as a pipe character, the expression would read "except or E as e". <br>But I can't read it that way anyway. Instead, all I see is a lowercase EXCEPTL. <br> <br>My idea is this: <br> <br>try: <br> ... <br>except group E as e: <br> ... <br>except group E1, T2 as e: <br> ... <br> <br>Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. But I know it's a bit late for bikeshedding this thing so if we want to be conservative and stick to the current syntactical options already defined in PEP 654, I'm voting Option 2 (given the awkwardness of the *(E1, E2) example). <br> <br> <br>- Ł <br></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/57b4563a506e5/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; track:click" tabindex="0" aria-label="Download file signature.asc" role="link"><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 24 24" focusable="false" class="liLXp NMm5M"><path d="M14 2H6c-1.1 0-1.99.9-1.99 2L4 20c0 1.1.89 2 1.99 2H18c1.1 0 2-.9 2-2V8l-6-6zM6 20V4h7v5h5v11H6z"/></svg><div class="v4CGHc"><span class="DPvwYc DXr4rc" aria-hidden="true"></span><div class="t0OKhe"><div class="NJ8Umf">signature.asc</div><div class="rTCb4c"><div role="presentation" class="uArJ5e hyxAJb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i51" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i46" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">Irit Katriel wrote: <br>> It is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested. <br> <br></div>Honestly, I’ve never been a fan of the PEP’s proposed star syntax. <br> <br>If we’re okay adding a soft keyword, though, something like “except each” could help communicate the meaning of the blocks a bit more explicitly. I’m pretty sure that grammar would be unambiguous in all cases. <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836184000&usg=AOvVaw0F8KY7L8myTKQYldAJklVI">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/44TWMI3PV3TKRL6ZJ4YU3GMQ6W43EHU5/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/44TWMI3PV3TKRL6ZJ4YU3GMQ6W43EHU5/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836184000&usg=AOvVaw3jkf6AaNolTjO8eAR9LESN">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/44TWMI3PV3TKRL6ZJ4YU3GMQ6W43EHU5/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i57" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i52" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">Łukasz Langa wrote: <br>> My idea is this: <br>> try: <br>> ... <br>> except group E as e: <br>> ... <br>> except group E1, T2 as e: <br>> ... <br>> Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. <br> <br></div>Heh, we crossed posts with the soft keywords. I like your idea (“except group”) better than mine (“except each”). <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836185000&usg=AOvVaw2SykBhkpzonpyV_SEzwJK5">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4FPTSD6VAIJD2WSP63KQUOQLDAOI3EWR/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4FPTSD6VAIJD2WSP63KQUOQLDAOI3EWR/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836185000&usg=AOvVaw0CqT30JRI6C-tv07E6ydf0">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/4FPTSD6VAIJD2WSP63KQUOQLDAOI3EWR/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i63" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i58" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On 2021-10-03 18:50, Brandt Bucher wrote: <br>> Łukasz Langa wrote: <br>>> My idea is this: <br>>> try: <br>>> ... <br>>> except group E as e: <br>>> ... <br>>> except group E1, T2 as e: <br>>> ... <br>>> Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. <br>> <br>> Heh, we crossed posts with the soft keywords. I like your idea (“except group”) better than mine (“except each”). <br></div>> If we want to use an existing keyword instead of a soft keyword, how <br>about "except in E as e:". <br> <br>The disadvantage, as I see it, from a linguistic point of view, is that <br>"except in" could be read as "excluding", but, then, so could "except <br>each" ("excluding each of these") and "except group" ("excluding this <br>group"). <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836186000&usg=AOvVaw3dvUz9G_CtiPxsjVwpa869">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836186000&usg=AOvVaw0WeOvK-5okOrPg_IgOk6gN">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i69" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to MRAB, pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i64" role="region">We can drop except. Say: <br> <br>try: <br> .. <br>handle T1: <br> … <br>handle T2: <br> … <br> <br>Or ‘catch’, or something else. <br> <br> <br>> On 3 Oct 2021, at 19:12, MRAB <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com</a>> wrote: <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/K3I7552LB6O5XS3KWLC2C2U5XME43HQ5/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/K3I7552LB6O5XS3KWLC2C2U5XME43HQ5/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836187000&usg=AOvVaw3pvkdqUYuEvvBjWmATc--U">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/K3I7552LB6O5XS3KWLC2C2U5XME43HQ5/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i75" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Irit Katriel, Python-Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i70" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 11:28 AM Irit Katriel via Python-Dev <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">We can drop except. Say:<br> <br> try:<br> ..<br> handle T1:<br> …<br> handle T2:<br> …<br> <br> Or ‘catch’, or something else.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>We're going around in circles. We considered 'catch' early on, but decided against it since, comparing 'except E' and 'catch E', there would be no good way to tell which is the recommended one (and the same would apply to another single keyword like 'handle'). At least with 'except*', it's easy to remember that this is a modified version of 'except', so it's probably meant for a special case.</div><div><br></div><div>I also think that the bar should be pretty high before we reopen the *syntax* -- the PEP was approved without anyone (neither the SC, nor Nathaniel, nor anyone else) providing any feedback on the use of 'except *'. So I think it's a bit late to be bikeshedding the syntax. This thread was meant to solicit feedback on how to *format* it: does the space go before or after the '*'.<br></div></div><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>--Guido van Rossum (<a href="http://python.org/~guido" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://python.org/~guido&source=gmail&ust=1743567836189000&usg=AOvVaw0cNYBtpd9vHzPdRLxO9b1_">python.org/~guido</a>)</div><div><i style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span>Pronouns</span>: he/him </i><a href="http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836189000&usg=AOvVaw1RjYj_vQtscdPi3igjhKqp"><i>(why is my <span>pronoun</span> here?)</i></a></div></div></div></div></div></div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,5_ekph9-BQAJ;23"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i81" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to MRAB, pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i76" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>> On 3 Oct 2021, at 20:11, MRAB <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> On 2021-10-03 18:50, Brandt Bucher wrote: <br>>> Łukasz Langa wrote: <br>>>> My idea is this: <br>>>> try: <br>>>> ... <br>>>> except group E as e: <br>>>> ... <br>>>> except group E1, T2 as e: <br>>>> ... <br>>>> Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. <br>>> Heh, we crossed posts with the soft keywords. I like your idea (“except group”) better than mine (“except each”). <br>>> If we want to use an existing keyword instead of a soft keyword, how <br>> about "except in E as e:". <br>> <br>> The disadvantage, as I see it, from a linguistic point of view, is that "except in" could be read as "excluding", but, then, so could "except each" ("excluding each of these") and "except group" ("excluding this group"). <br> <br></div>If you're thinking that, then doesn't "except KeyError" mean "everything except for KeyErrors"? I don't see the problem. <br> <br>- Ł <br></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/5831dae3433d0/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; track:click" tabindex="0" aria-label="Download file signature.asc" role="link"><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 24 24" focusable="false" class="liLXp NMm5M"><path d="M14 2H6c-1.1 0-1.99.9-1.99 2L4 20c0 1.1.89 2 1.99 2H18c1.1 0 2-.9 2-2V8l-6-6zM6 20V4h7v5h5v11H6z"/></svg><div class="v4CGHc"><span class="DPvwYc DXr4rc" aria-hidden="true"></span><div class="t0OKhe"><div class="NJ8Umf">signature.asc</div><div class="rTCb4c"><div role="presentation" class="uArJ5e hyxAJb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow aria-label="Download" data-tooltip="Download" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><a class="IrxBzb TpQm9d JcMFxe" href="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/5831dae3433d0/signature.asc?part=0.0.1" aria-label="Download file signature.asc"><span class="DPvwYc PHe70c" aria-hidden="true"></span></a></div></div></div></div><div class="jJE1Ib"><div class="Rjhsyc"></div><svg class="NokTXd" viewBox="0 0 20 10"><polygon class="aWrtce" points="0,10 10,10 10,0"/><polygon class="yTCQbb" points="10,10 20,10 20,0"/></svg></div></div></div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,0DM0rh2DBQAJ;24"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; mouseup:v4KoQ; keydown:v4KoQ;AHmuwe:mpYVcf;O22p3e:jmJIU;K7NtBe:f7gSD;OXWwLe:cpXlEe;wlB9we:PTiTyd;pQRm0e:pyCc2c" soy-skip ssk='6:CWF4kd'></div></div></div></section><section class="BkrUxb" jscontroller="ywEdOe" data-doc-id="wr6ddp-FBQAJ" data-subject="[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting" data-is-first="false" data-author="Gregory P. Smith" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; keydown:hXsouf; click:mHokFf(A9KrYd),gfTIJc(yjbGtf),hXsouf;" tabindex="0" aria-expanded="true" role="listitem"><div class="eH2Xlc" tabindex="-1"><div class="oXnYGc"><div class=" Dyb9Ge" aria-hidden="true"><div class="tGPUJe"><div class="xPx9xc Ajdkue"><img src="//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVwUZpUialCwMJ93IVL3ZtUfnqBWgMyU2IxwRxx1wfuKA62SSQhqw=s40-c" alt="Gregory P. Smith's profile photo" role="presentation"></div></div></div><div class="X7AGAf"><div class="UZ2tvc" jsname="A9KrYd"><div class="NcB7hc"><div class="LgTNRd"><h3 class="s1f8Zd" id="i82">Gregory P. 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mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" data-disabled-tooltip="You cannot report your own message" aria-describedby="i86" aria-label="Report message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="mTtSFe" jslog="202374; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Report message</div></div></span><span jsslot class="z80M1 RDPZE FeRvI" jsaction="click:o6ZaF(preventDefault=true); mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" aria-disabled="true" data-disabled-tooltip="Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message" aria-describedby="i87" aria-label="Show original message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="H2AOBd" jslog="109822; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i87" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Łukasz Langa, Python-Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i82" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM Łukasz Langa <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">luk...@langa.pl</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br> I know it's a bit late for bikeshedding this thing so if we want to be conservative and stick to the current syntactical options already defined in PEP 654, I'm voting Option 2 (given the awkwardness of the *(E1, E2) example).<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>+1 on the `except* E` Option 2 syntax. It better conveys its uniqueness and non-relation to other meanings of *.</div><div><br></div><div>Someone mentioned allowing both and letting people decide. Whatever is chosen, please not that. There should be only one way to write this. That avoids style arguments when no auto-formatter is involved.</div><div><br></div><div>-gps</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br> <br> - Ł</blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br> _______________________________________________<br> Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br> <a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836192000&usg=AOvVaw0TdpK-lEFVaRMFiMABOH8F">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/T7QZJ575RFNYZ5KMYD66YMR2ZLNDVF56/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/T7QZJ575RFNYZ5KMYD66YMR2ZLNDVF56/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836192000&usg=AOvVaw3wqNQLaPbOFOi0J_2BgO8N">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/T7QZJ575RFNYZ5KMYD66YMR2ZLNDVF56/</a></blockquote></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i93" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Łukasz Langa, Irit Katriel</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i88" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:42, Łukasz Langa <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">luk...@langa.pl</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> My idea is this: <br>> <br>> try: <br>> ... <br>> except group E as e: <br>> ... <br>> except group E1, T2 as e: <br>> ... <br>> <br>> Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. But I know it's a bit late for bikeshedding this thing so if we want to be conservative and stick to the current syntactical options already defined in PEP 654, I'm voting Option 2 (given the awkwardness of the *(E1, E2) example). <br> <br></div>Speaking just for myself, the `except *` syntax always bothered me, but I couldn’t come up with anything better and it wasn’t enough for me to vote against PEP 654. `except group` is nicer though, and I would be in favor of that, or something like it. <br> <br>We could of course bike shed on the syntax forever. The PSC did vote to accept the PEP but we left room for changes while during the 3.11 cycle. <br> <br>-Barry <br> <br></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/590478e5150da/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; track:click" tabindex="0" aria-label="Download file signature.asc" role="link"><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 24 24" focusable="false" class="liLXp NMm5M"><path d="M14 2H6c-1.1 0-1.99.9-1.99 2L4 20c0 1.1.89 2 1.99 2H18c1.1 0 2-.9 2-2V8l-6-6zM6 20V4h7v5h5v11H6z"/></svg><div class="v4CGHc"><span class="DPvwYc DXr4rc" aria-hidden="true"></span><div class="t0OKhe"><div class="NJ8Umf">signature.asc</div><div class="rTCb4c"><div role="presentation" class="uArJ5e hyxAJb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow aria-label="Download" data-tooltip="Download" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><a class="IrxBzb TpQm9d JcMFxe" href="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/590478e5150da/signature.asc?part=0.0.1" aria-label="Download file signature.asc"><span class="DPvwYc PHe70c" aria-hidden="true"></span></a></div></div></div></div><div class="jJE1Ib"><div class="Rjhsyc"></div><svg class="NokTXd" viewBox="0 0 20 10"><polygon class="aWrtce" points="0,10 10,10 10,0"/><polygon class="yTCQbb" points="10,10 20,10 20,0"/></svg></div></div></div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,2lBRjkeQBQAJ;26"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i99" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i94" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 11:34:55AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: <br> <br>> I also think that the bar should be pretty high before we reopen the <br>> *syntax* -- the PEP was approved without anyone (neither the SC, nor <br>> Nathaniel, nor anyone else) providing any feedback on the use of 'except <br>> *'. So I think it's a bit late to be bikeshedding the syntax. This thread <br>> was meant to solicit feedback on how to *format* it: does the space go <br>> before or after the '*'. <br> <br></div>`except* E`, otherwise it looks like unpacking E. <br> <br>Done! Bikeshedding is over! *wink* <br> <br>All joking aside, my preference is to put the star on the except, not <br>the exceptions. I don't think I have anything more to say that hasn't <br>already been said, so I'll bow out now. <br> <br>-- <br>Steve <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836194000&usg=AOvVaw2NXjr49vGmSgVtlnyc3jeS">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5TRLGMHCOTEF3MMR6GR35TLG6TPG63VJ/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5TRLGMHCOTEF3MMR6GR35TLG6TPG63VJ/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836194000&usg=AOvVaw31lAvyi5MVLZ0ZrLTl3vxC">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/5TRLGMHCOTEF3MMR6GR35TLG6TPG63VJ/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" data-disabled-tooltip="You cannot report your own message" aria-describedby="i104" aria-label="Report message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="mTtSFe" jslog="202374; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Report message</div></div></span><span jsslot class="z80M1 RDPZE FeRvI" jsaction="click:o6ZaF(preventDefault=true); mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" aria-disabled="true" data-disabled-tooltip="Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message" aria-describedby="i105" aria-label="Show original message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="H2AOBd" jslog="109822; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i105" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Python Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i100" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 11:40 PM Steven D'Aprano <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">st...@pearwood.info</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 11:34:55AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:<br> <br> > I also think that the bar should be pretty high before we reopen the<br> > *syntax* -- the PEP was approved without anyone (neither the SC, nor<br> > Nathaniel, nor anyone else) providing any feedback on the use of 'except<br> > *'. So I think it's a bit late to be bikeshedding the syntax. This thread<br> > was meant to solicit feedback on how to *format* it: does the space go<br> > before or after the '*'.<br> <br> `except* E`, otherwise it looks like unpacking E.<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>I think it's worth noting that the following is already legal:</div><div><br></div><div> Python 3.9.7 (tags/v3.9.7:1016ef3, Aug 30 2021, 20:19:38) [MSC v.1929 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32<br>Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.<br>>>> exceptions = (ValueError, TypeError)<br>>>> try:<br>... raise TypeError<br>... except exceptions:<br>... print("caught")<br>...<br>caught</div><div><br></div><div>Indeed, when I first learned that you could do this (a few years ago IIRC), my first thought was to unpack the "exceptions" tuple with a star. It wasn't until I tried that and got a SyntaxError that I tried it the way shown here and it worked.</div><div><br></div><div>Allowing `except *E` for this new feature would take that helpful-to-a-beginner SyntaxError and turn it into a subtle and unhelpful bug.</div><div><br></div><div>Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.<br></div></div></div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,SBrvGcedBQAJ;28"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; mouseup:v4KoQ; keydown:v4KoQ;AHmuwe:mpYVcf;O22p3e:jmJIU;K7NtBe:f7gSD;OXWwLe:cpXlEe;wlB9we:PTiTyd;pQRm0e:pyCc2c" soy-skip ssk='6:CWF4kd'></div></div></div></section><section class="BkrUxb" jscontroller="ywEdOe" data-doc-id="5GJox6OhBQAJ" data-subject="[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting" data-is-first="false" data-author="Guido van Rossum" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i111" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Jonathan Goble, Python Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i106" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>You can't do that with our current lexer+parser. <br></div></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i117" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i112" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On 4/10/21 6:23 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote: <br>> On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a> <br>> <mailto:<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a>>> wrote: <br>> <br>> Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except <br>> *E` as a SyntaxError. <br>> <br>> You can't do that with our current lexer+parser. <br> <br></div>I don't think it would be desirable in any case. The separation of <br>tokens into alphanumeric and non-alphanumeric is deeply embedded in <br>every Python programmer's brain by now, and we shouldn't mess with <br>it. <br> <br>-- <br>Greg <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836197000&usg=AOvVaw01_vkqSpkPyW0f-QY0y9HI">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XQXJEGYAWBTAUQI3BEIXDZO4SERAJYWF/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XQXJEGYAWBTAUQI3BEIXDZO4SERAJYWF/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836197000&usg=AOvVaw1bCTH9PWb9DM3-wzUG6kQj">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/XQXJEGYAWBTAUQI3BEIXDZO4SERAJYWF/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i123" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Greg Ewing, Python Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i118" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 07:16, Greg Ewing <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">greg....@canterbury.ac.nz</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> On 4/10/21 6:23 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote: <br>> > On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a> <br>> > <mailto:<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a>>> wrote: <br>> > <br>> > Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except <br>> > *E` as a SyntaxError. <br>> > <br>> > You can't do that with our current lexer+parser. <br>> <br>> I don't think it would be desirable in any case. The separation of <br>> tokens into alphanumeric and non-alphanumeric is deeply embedded in <br>> every Python programmer's brain by now, and we shouldn't mess with <br>> it. <br> <br></div>Agreed. Having "except*" be a single token, distinguished from the <br>pair of tokens "except" "*" only by the presence of whitespace, would <br>be extremely confusing. <br> <br>And yes, I am aware that 3.as_integer_ratio() and 3. <br>as_integer_ratio() are syntax errors, whereas 3 .as_integer_ratio() <br>and 3 . as_integer_ratio() are valid. IMO, that's *also* very <br>confusing, and serves as a warning to not do that again, and not as an <br>example of how it's OK and we can do more of that... <br> <br>Paul <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836198000&usg=AOvVaw32Ip4gSyMYy6gYRNkMo3KB">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IKWKS6VYWFQ4XEXJ4XFYBLPRPXATKGGL/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IKWKS6VYWFQ4XEXJ4XFYBLPRPXATKGGL/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836198000&usg=AOvVaw2K0HF4dKpJny-Qot2Axfk5">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/IKWKS6VYWFQ4XEXJ4XFYBLPRPXATKGGL/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i129" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i124" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 19:42:29 +0200 <br>Łukasz Langa <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">luk...@langa.pl</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> -1 <br>> <br>> If I could read the vertical line as a pipe character, the expression would read "except or E as e". <br>> But I can't read it that way anyway. Instead, all I see is a lowercase EXCEPTL. <br>> <br>> My idea is this: <br>> <br>> try: <br>> ... <br>> except group E as e: <br>> ... <br>> except group E1, T2 as e: <br>> ... <br>> <br>> Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. <br> <br></div>+1. This is much more helpful to the reader than the cryptic <br>asterisk. <br> <br>Regards <br> <br>Antoine. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br> <br>_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836199000&usg=AOvVaw3_PqRDby_V9F_T1yAwFmHB">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836199000&usg=AOvVaw3wgc6g6LCbdf11kesDBa35">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i135" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Python Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i130" role="region"><div dir="ltr">I'm confused, if you can't do that then what is Irit asking? I thought that:</div><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><br><br><div>> At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc. <br></div><div><br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div>Meant exactly that was the question being asked.</div><div><br></div><div>Damian (he/him)<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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ExceptionGroup is still an exception class like any other, isn't it? Why wouldn't the existing syntax suffice?<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div><br></div></div> _______________________________________________<br> Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br> <a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836204000&usg=AOvVaw39Y8oTG9RM-HsQkQd3bmbX">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4B256YKUPW5P2M44GG5H6FBL3PSV6ODP/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4B256YKUPW5P2M44GG5H6FBL3PSV6ODP/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836204000&usg=AOvVaw2ejKUMKwtotUXLJ8EagIVn">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/4B256YKUPW5P2M44GG5H6FBL3PSV6ODP/</a></blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br> Code of Conduct: <a href="http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836204000&usg=AOvVaw13X-URcLIiRa0ecrn_lzio">http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/</a><br> </blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase">CALVIN SPEALMAN<br></p><p style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase"><span>SENIOR QUALITY ENGINEER</span></p><span style="font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium"></span><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium"></span><p style="font-family:overpass,sans-serif;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)"><span style="margin:0px;padding:0px"><a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">calvin....@redhat.com</a> </span> <span>M: <a href="tel:+1.336.210.5107" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">+1.336.210.5107</a></span></p></div><div dir="ltr"><div><a href="https://red.ht/sig" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://red.ht/sig&source=gmail&ust=1743567836204000&usg=AOvVaw2gL4jRbgCJFQLqWXtuuO-V"><img src="https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yZXsde3pBxOmM28xtjdqAiSG2gvsoMRSrVcqojiWX_5CaKz4jRUmYM0zxicwav1ce_OjPqiKcOqLycjAZ43Zq4FUG7uutNbVRgZH1yWzzeW-nej7aBakgFDQ=s0-d-e1-ft#https://static.redhat.com/libs/redhat/brand-assets/latest/corp/logo.png" alt="https://red.ht/sig" width="96" height="22"></a><br></div><div><a href="https://redhat.com/trusted" style="color:rgb(204,0,0);font-weight:bold" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://redhat.com/trusted&source=gmail&ust=1743567836204000&usg=AOvVaw1EOR0WnLTCgBT2VGDoWJ5b">TRIED. 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i153" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Calvin Spealman, Irit Katriel, python-dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i148" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 4 Oct 2021, at 15:00, Calvin Spealman <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">cspe...@redhat.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">It is difficult to understand why any special syntax is needed at all. ExceptionGroup is still an exception class like any other, isn't it? Why wouldn't the existing syntax suffice?</div></div></div></div></blockquote><br></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div>This is covered at length in the PEP. Those sections specifically address this:</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/#extend-except-to-handle-exception-groups" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/%23extend-except-to-handle-exception-groups&source=gmail&ust=1743567836207000&usg=AOvVaw2mVAqtQbdYWWCCZ6o31O8m">https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/#extend-except-to-handle-exception-groups</a></div><div><a href="https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/#programming-without-except" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/%23programming-without-except&source=gmail&ust=1743567836207000&usg=AOvVaw1dnJ5bWr5L6VBPC5b3ghfE">https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/#programming-without-except</a></div><div><br></div><div>- Ł</div><div><br></div></div></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/5bf77873362d7/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; 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class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="H2AOBd" jslog="109822; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i165" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i160" role="region">Another +1 for `except group` from me. <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow 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jsaction="click:o6ZaF(preventDefault=true); mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" data-disabled-tooltip="You cannot report your own message" aria-describedby="i170" aria-label="Report message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="mTtSFe" jslog="202374; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Report message</div></div></span><span jsslot class="z80M1 RDPZE FeRvI" jsaction="click:o6ZaF(preventDefault=true); mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" aria-disabled="true" data-disabled-tooltip="Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message" aria-describedby="i171" aria-label="Show original message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="H2AOBd" jslog="109822; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i171" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Guido van Rossum, Python Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i166" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 1:24 AM Guido van Rossum <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">gu...@python.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You can't do that with our current lexer+parser. <br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Then what is the purpose of this thread? I understood from the OP that the question was which to allow and which to prohibit. If it's impossible to require either or prohibit either because the lexer/parser can't tell the difference, then it's going to end up as a never-ending style argument just like C pointers, so what are we even discussing? (Other than an entirely different syntax, of course, which now seems like the logical way to go if we can't enforce a single way to do it with the original proposal.)<br></div></div></div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,XCdDJ3jBBQAJ;39"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; mouseup:v4KoQ; keydown:v4KoQ;AHmuwe:mpYVcf;O22p3e:jmJIU;K7NtBe:f7gSD;OXWwLe:cpXlEe;wlB9we:PTiTyd;pQRm0e:pyCc2c" soy-skip ssk='6:CWF4kd'></div></div></div></section><section class="BkrUxb" jscontroller="ywEdOe" data-doc-id="8uP8ZKPDBQAJ" data-subject="[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting" data-is-first="false" data-author="MRAB" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; keydown:hXsouf; click:mHokFf(A9KrYd),gfTIJc(yjbGtf),hXsouf;" tabindex="0" aria-expanded="true" role="listitem"><div class="eH2Xlc" tabindex="-1"><div class="oXnYGc"><div class=" Dyb9Ge" aria-hidden="true"><div class="tGPUJe"><div class="xPx9xc Ajdkue"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a/default-user=s40-c" alt="MRAB's profile photo" role="presentation"></div></div></div><div class="X7AGAf"><div class="UZ2tvc" jsname="A9KrYd"><div class="NcB7hc"><div class="LgTNRd"><h3 class="s1f8Zd" id="i172">MRAB</h3></div><span class="oXzbyc">unread,</span><div class="ELCJ4d"><span class="zX2W9c">Oct 4, 2021, 11:53:38 PM</span><span class="Rrziwd">10/4/21</span><div jscontroller="XyWitb" jsaction="JIbuQc:nfEq0c(LgbsSe)" class="jX3HFe c5jofc" data-group-email="dev-python@googlegroups.com" data-conv-id="G3p9_jovyus" data-starred="false" data-message-id="8uP8ZKPDBQAJ"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db pzr7Cc RDPZE" jslog="82178; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i177" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i172" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On 2021-10-04 07:12, Greg Ewing wrote: <br>> On 4/10/21 6:23 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote: <br>>> On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a> <br>>> <mailto:<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a>>> wrote: <br>>> <br>>> Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except <br>>> *E` as a SyntaxError. <br>>> <br>>> You can't do that with our current lexer+parser. <br>> <br>> I don't think it would be desirable in any case. The separation of <br>> tokens into alphanumeric and non-alphanumeric is deeply embedded in <br>> every Python programmer's brain by now, and we shouldn't mess with <br>> it. <br>> <br></div>It's not just a Python thing. <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836211000&usg=AOvVaw3ChnxYAVhjWMknMfbTG1Ep">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/NTAXBGISW5CGLR2CWQ7HN4CCMDNF6OPG/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/NTAXBGISW5CGLR2CWQ7HN4CCMDNF6OPG/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836211000&usg=AOvVaw0KVdr4G-vndnKPyMPCLjO5">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/NTAXBGISW5CGLR2CWQ7HN4CCMDNF6OPG/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" data-disabled-tooltip="You cannot report your own message" aria-describedby="i188" aria-label="Report message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="mTtSFe" jslog="202374; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Report message</div></div></span><span jsslot class="z80M1 RDPZE FeRvI" jsaction="click:o6ZaF(preventDefault=true); mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" aria-disabled="true" data-disabled-tooltip="Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message" aria-describedby="i189" aria-label="Show original message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="H2AOBd" jslog="109822; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i189" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i184" role="region"><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div>> The key phrase is """in any case we need to settle on a convention that <br>we use in documentation, etc.""". <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836214000&usg=AOvVaw2tQ5NdRvDIzKFjhoM9uRsV">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RYJTNZVMNF54XVUIE4MMN6TXS2XRPTXO/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RYJTNZVMNF54XVUIE4MMN6TXS2XRPTXO/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836214000&usg=AOvVaw3rTwDdND2ZG9hO8C8D-soq">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/RYJTNZVMNF54XVUIE4MMN6TXS2XRPTXO/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i195" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to gu...@python.org, Jonathan Goble, Python Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i190" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM Guido van Rossum <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">gu...@python.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"> The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8). </div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>I think the very fact that it can't (or is difficult) be enforced, and so in the wild we'll likely see variations that could lead to confusion, is enough reason to find an alternative syntax.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i207" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i202" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:18:35 -0400 <br>Calvin Spealman <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">cspe...@redhat.com</a>> wrote: <br>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM Guido van Rossum <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">gu...@python.org</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> > The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8). <br>> > <br>> <br>> I think the very fact that it can't (or is difficult) be enforced, <br> <br></div>How so? If style checkers are already able to check whitespace around <br>operators, they should be to check whitespace in this instance as well. <br> <br>Do you suggest that PEP 8 violations should be detected by the Python <br>parser itself? <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br> <br>_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836219000&usg=AOvVaw0-PSUSJMZsj2EN_QVQ2GFC">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836219000&usg=AOvVaw0T_-nsEgydfeYtBimFl4Sn">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i213" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i208" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div> <div>On 10/3/2021 10:23 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">jcgo...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <div dir="ltr"> <div class="gmail_quote"> <div>Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.<br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div><br> </div> <div>You can't do that with our current lexer+parser.<br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br></div></div><div> Seems like a good reason to promote "except group E" instead of "except * E", as others have suggested.<br> </div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,pDADDZnIBQAJ;46"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; 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If style checkers are already able to check whitespace around<br> operators, they should be to check whitespace in this instance as well.<br> <br> Do you suggest that PEP 8 violations should be detected by the Python<br> parser itself?<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>1) I was basing the "can't enforce" on Guido's " You can't do that with our current lexer+parser."<br><br></div><div>2) Of course PEP 8 violations shouldn't be checked by the parser. That's why they're PEP 8 and not syntax rules.<br></div><div>However, this doesn't look like style. This syntax is modifying either the `except` keyword for the exception type<br>associated with it.</div><div>Which does it modify? That the asterisk can be on either side of the whitespace feels very odd, in general but</div><div>especially for Python syntax. That's why I'd opt for a variation that is either unambiguously attached to the left or right,</div><div>or which is not connected to either, like the very clear `except group E` proposal.<br></div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><div>_______________________________________________<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br> <a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836222000&usg=AOvVaw3vrVXjAEKK5c4KV7GTnH-N">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br> Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836222000&usg=AOvVaw2Hr4ibycVTrAK6FNn-By0B">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/</a><br> Code of Conduct: <a href="http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836222000&usg=AOvVaw3A5rqdGvNDGVQkRb0ExDO4">http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/</a><br> <br> </blockquote></div></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i225" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Antoine Pitrou, pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i220" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>On 10/4/2021 5:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: <br>> On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:18:35 -0400 <br>> Calvin Spealman <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">cspe...@redhat.com</a>> wrote: <br>>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM Guido van Rossum <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">gu...@python.org</a>> wrote: <br>>> <br>>>> The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8). <br>>>> <br>>> <br>>> I think the very fact that it can't (or is difficult) be enforced, <br>> <br>> How so? If style checkers are already able to check whitespace around <br>> operators, they should be to check whitespace in this instance as well. <br>> <br>> Do you suggest that PEP 8 violations should be detected by the Python <br>> parser itself? <br> <br></div>No, but if it isn't decided by *us*, it'll be decided by whoever <br>contributes it to Black first. <br> <br>To me, the "*name" looks most similar to how we write "*args" in a <br>function definition, so I'd go for that. <br> <br>We don't currently modify[1] keywords with punctuation, and that's what <br>"except*" looks like, and "except * E" looks like a binary operator <br>and/or grit on the screen. <br> <br>Cheers, <br>Steve <br> <br>[1]: Meaning to "give it a different meaning in particular context", not <br>_literally_ modify in any permanent sense. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836223000&usg=AOvVaw1Qqo-RWcM8z7mB7ICCXeTS">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/52KJZMKMFTFHVMS3NXABNFQJRZNLKLX5/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/52KJZMKMFTFHVMS3NXABNFQJRZNLKLX5/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836223000&usg=AOvVaw3bQ8ziM2DIhvFjiUx99cDl">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/52KJZMKMFTFHVMS3NXABNFQJRZNLKLX5/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i231" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i226" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div> <br> <br> <div>On 04/10/2021 00:57, Barry Warsaw wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre>On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:42, Łukasz Langa <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow"><luk...@langa.pl></a> wrote: </pre> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre> Speaking just for myself, the `except *` syntax always bothered me, but I couldn’t come up with anything better and it wasn’t enough for me to vote against PEP 654. `except group` is nicer though, and I would be in favor of that, or something like it.</pre> </blockquote> </blockquote></div></div><div> Or perhaps `except for` ?<br> <blockquote type="cite"></blockquote></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div><blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <pre> We could of course bike shed on the syntax forever. The PSC did vote to accept the PEP but we left room for changes while during the 3.11 cycle. -Barry </pre> </blockquote> <br> <fieldset></fieldset> </blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div><blockquote type="cite"><pre>_______________________________________________ Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836224000&usg=AOvVaw2PCoX032Fp54gpQliCkOgX">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a></pre></blockquote></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><pre> Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/7KHAN76UA5JRND2M2EMVLKML665KQDTC/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/7KHAN76UA5JRND2M2EMVLKML665KQDTC/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836224000&usg=AOvVaw0D28z0XHpIlsYJCpb7KkQZ">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/7KHAN76UA5JRND2M2EMVLKML665KQDTC/</a></pre></blockquote></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i237" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i232" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On 10/4/2021 9:57 AM, Ammar Askar wrote: <br>> Throwing in another +1 for `except group`. <br>> <br>> It's explicit, doesn't introduce new punctuation and avoids confusion <br>> with unpacking. <br> <br></div>I agree for same reasons. And avoids more bikeshedding. <br> <br>I checked and if 'except group' is added to keyword.kwlist *before* <br>'except', the pair is recognized as a keyword phrase by IDLE's syntax <br>highlighter without any change. ('except\s*group' would take care of <br>variable spacing) <br> <br> <br>-- <br>Terry Jan Reedy <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836225000&usg=AOvVaw23rhGGvN3Iw8SziGmiTmmH">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EYS6Q53UN2KDBH2VM4KA7DVRL76KJYVX/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EYS6Q53UN2KDBH2VM4KA7DVRL76KJYVX/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836225000&usg=AOvVaw2KwRB1wtUPR1VKa1HVyYsx">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/EYS6Q53UN2KDBH2VM4KA7DVRL76KJYVX/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i243" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i238" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 07:31:10PM +0100, Steve Dower wrote: <br>> To me, the "*name" looks most similar to how we write "*args" in a <br>> function definition, so I'd go for that. <br> <br></div>That's exactly why we *shouldn't* go for that option. That is going to <br>confuse a lot of people that it is sequence unpacking. <br> <br>See for example Jonathon Goble's experience here: <br> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/2TBZZSMZXNYFJNPLIESFNFDNDX5K6A5X/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/2TBZZSMZXNYFJNPLIESFNFDNDX5K6A5X/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836226000&usg=AOvVaw3tngh385QPmjmZH1zomnh5">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/2TBZZSMZXNYFJNPLIESFNFDNDX5K6A5X/</a> <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br> <br>> We don't currently modify[1] keywords with punctuation, <br> <br></div>Star imports are a possible exception. But there we have no way of <br>confusing the meaning. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br> <br>> and that's what <br>> "except*" looks like, and "except * E" looks like a binary operator <br>> and/or grit on the screen. <br> <br></div>When I saw the `except*` syntax first suggested, I was a little <br>surprised because it did seem rather unusual for Python. But I grew up <br>with FORTH where function names contain punctuation all the time, so I <br>didn't think too much of it. I expected that the keyword literally would <br>be `except*` and nothing but `except*`. <br> <br>If I had realised that the star would be free to wander around and that <br>the syntax actually was r"except[ \t]*\*[ \t]*", I would have said <br>something much earlier :-( <br> <br>-- <br>Steve <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836226000&usg=AOvVaw1JndurRC86x_smgyBNjaUT">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GZOOLRO7RYWNKA3QWGNGXGXVV3KNNR4Q/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GZOOLRO7RYWNKA3QWGNGXGXVV3KNNR4Q/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836226000&usg=AOvVaw3teE73gw5nNL7xDCN2j3zc">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/GZOOLRO7RYWNKA3QWGNGXGXVV3KNNR4Q/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i249" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i244" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div> On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:<br> <blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> <div> <div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:</span><br> </div> </div> </div> <div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:</span></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </blockquote> </div></div><div><p>I vote #2, because `except *(e1, e2) as e:` could imply that this is splatting an arbitrary expression there - it looks like it will match any number of dynamically chosen exception types.</p> </div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,OqveXKMOBgAJ;52"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i255" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i250" role="region"> <div> <div>On 03/10/2021 16:54, Thomas Grainger wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="auto">What about `except case ExceptionGroup[E1 | E2]:`? and use match semantics?</div> <br> <div class="gmail_quote"></div></blockquote></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"> <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, 3 Oct 2021, 16:50 Irit Katriel via Python-Dev, <<a href rel="noreferrer nofollow" data-email-masked>pytho...@python.org</a>> wrote:<br> </div> </div></blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><br> <div>We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:</div> </div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> <div> <div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:</span><br> </div> </div> </div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"> <div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:</span></div> </div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"></div> </div> </blockquote> <div>(The difference is in the whitespace around the *).</div> <div><br> </div> <div>At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc.</div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div> It is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested. <br> </div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div></div> </div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote> <p>I don't think X[Y | Z] is close to any syntax match currently allows.</p> <p>But... I have long thought that the interpreter's exception matching abilities were underused by the language. Maybe this is an opportunity for something else interesting, in general?<br> </p> <p>The problem being, besides the general extra complexity, that the match statement's variable capture semantics are different to the `as name` syntax already used by the except statement.<br> </p> </div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,yUAdCMIOBgAJ;53"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; mouseup:v4KoQ; keydown:v4KoQ;AHmuwe:mpYVcf;O22p3e:jmJIU;K7NtBe:f7gSD;OXWwLe:cpXlEe;wlB9we:PTiTyd;pQRm0e:pyCc2c" soy-skip ssk='6:CWF4kd'></div></div></div></section><section class="BkrUxb" jscontroller="ywEdOe" data-doc-id="Gzx8UM0OBgAJ" data-subject="[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting" data-is-first="false" data-author="Patrick Reader" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i261" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i256" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div> <div>On 03/10/2021 16:59, Patrick Reader wrote:<br> </div> </div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div><blockquote type="cite"> On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:<br> </blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> <blockquote type="cite"> <div dir="ltr"> <div dir="ltr"> <div style="color:rgb(80,0,80)"> <div> <div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:</span><br> </div> </div> </div> <div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34)">2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:</span></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </blockquote> </blockquote></div></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><p>I vote #2, because `except *(e1, e2) as e:` could imply that this is splatting an arbitrary expression there - it looks like it will match any number of dynamically chosen exception types.</p> </blockquote> (that could be a useful feature actually (so maybe the * syntax should be reserved??), but that's another discussion) </div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,Gzx8UM0OBgAJ;54"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; 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So, given these will be class names and 99.9% Title Case, Option 1 does not really fail under your suggested confusion here.<br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"></blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div> </div> _______________________________________________<br> Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br> <a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836231000&usg=AOvVaw0PjNLMcAtdVI-A9iVGFLoT">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></blockquote></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RGIAE2HMYQLPXWH5O5TNBNRXDQQ4UKAK/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RGIAE2HMYQLPXWH5O5TNBNRXDQQ4UKAK/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836231000&usg=AOvVaw0q7bAYxvPwvLN87IHhcgrl">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/RGIAE2HMYQLPXWH5O5TNBNRXDQQ4UKAK/</a></blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br> Code of Conduct: <a href="http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836231000&usg=AOvVaw1OpzhptW9HGmpRsrLXx1Jq">http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/</a><br> </blockquote></div></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i285" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i280" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 11:17:25AM -0400, Calvin Spealman wrote: <br>> On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 10:51 AM Patrick Reader <_@<a href="http://pxeger.com" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://pxeger.com&source=gmail&ust=1743567836233000&usg=AOvVaw3tTklIywL8WYBPBuqi2OZZ">pxeger.com</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> > On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote: <br>> > <br>> > 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e: <br>> > 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e: <br>> > <br>> > I vote #2, because `except *(e1, e2) as e:` could imply that this is <br>> > splatting an arbitrary expression there - it looks like it will match any <br>> > number of dynamically chosen exception types. <br>> > <br>> But it only looks like splatting because you changed it from `(E1, E2)` to <br>> `(e1, e2)` where Title Case names will look like a matched type and lower <br>> case names will look like destination names. So, given these will be class <br>> names and 99.9% Title Case, Option 1 does not really fail under your <br>> suggested confusion here. <br> <br></div>It's the asterisk `*`, not the case of the names, that makes it look <br>like sequence unpacking. <br> <br>Sequence unpacking works on sequences of types or other names that start <br>with capital letters. There is no difference between unpacking a tuple <br>of classes with a capital letter and a tuple of classes with names that <br>start with lower case letters: <br> <br> a, b, c = *(ValueError, TypeError, Exception) <br> a, b, c = *(int, float, str) <br> <br>Shockingly, we can even use mixed case and unusual naming conventions! <br> <br> obj, Module = (None, sys) <br> <br>*wink* <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836233000&usg=AOvVaw2W8AgdFXO6ZC1A-Y4LxGpL">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DTUIIVXGKA2MEBK6K3ZUOVHTLFRJC4HB/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DTUIIVXGKA2MEBK6K3ZUOVHTLFRJC4HB/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836233000&usg=AOvVaw0VseDrfOA3P8bGu9O0Pr1j">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/DTUIIVXGKA2MEBK6K3ZUOVHTLFRJC4HB/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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Bikeshedding aside, that’s still the best alternative I’ve seen. It’s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can’t be confused with unpacking syntax. <br> <br>-Barry <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/63102b0e0a987/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; 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Bikeshedding aside, that’s still the best alternative I’ve seen. It’s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can’t be confused with unpacking syntax. <br> <br>-Barry <br> <br>> On Oct 5, 2021, at 11:15, sascha.schlemmer--- via Python-Dev <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a>> wrote: <br>> <br></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/6313bde01f92e/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i303" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i298" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On 2021-10-06 02:12, Barry Warsaw wrote: <br>> What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that’s still the best alternative I’ve seen. It’s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can’t be confused with unpacking syntax. <br>> <br></div>+1 <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836235000&usg=AOvVaw3cfft0x3o25zdk1PDqdrSz">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YHTK2JCUX4KZ6EDNYLAUEHXD2XNZTUDT/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YHTK2JCUX4KZ6EDNYLAUEHXD2XNZTUDT/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836235000&usg=AOvVaw0AjyJTl0JgJ0ToWmpE8PiT">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/YHTK2JCUX4KZ6EDNYLAUEHXD2XNZTUDT/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i309" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i304" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On 10/5/21 6:32 PM, MRAB wrote: <br> > On 2021-10-06 02:12, Barry Warsaw wrote: <br> <br> >> What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that’s still the best alternative I’ve seen. <br> >> It’s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can’t be confused with unpacking syntax. <br> >> <br> > +1 <br> <br></div>+1 <br> <br>-- <br>~Ethan~ <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836235000&usg=AOvVaw3cfft0x3o25zdk1PDqdrSz">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5E5OJAE6BZPANHII5QTYZ6KRGUPCS6WX/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5E5OJAE6BZPANHII5QTYZ6KRGUPCS6WX/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836235000&usg=AOvVaw0djRn5zl5pf3032Yndky09">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/5E5OJAE6BZPANHII5QTYZ6KRGUPCS6WX/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i315" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i310" role="region"> <div> <p><br> </p> <p>It seems like, for this to work, "group" would have to become a keyword. This would play havoc with a lot of existing code. I can't tell you how many times I've used the identifier "group" in my code, particularly when dealing with regular expressions.</p> <p>Even making it a soft keyword, a la "await" in 3.5, would lead to ambiguity: <br> </p> <blockquote> <p>group = KeyboardInterrupt<br> <br> try:<br> while True:<br> print("thou can only defeat me with Ctrl-C")<br> except group as error:<br> print("lo, thou hast defeated me")<br> </p> </blockquote> <p><br> </p> <p><i>/arry</i><br> </p></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i321" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Larry Hastings, pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i316" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 6 Oct 2021, at 12:06, Larry Hastings <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">la...@hastings.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div> <div><p>It seems like, for this to work, "group" would have to become a keyword.</p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>No, just like `match` and `case` didn't have to.</div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><p>This would play havoc with a lot of existing code.</p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, Larry. I maintain this will be entirely backwards compatible.</div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><p>Even making it a soft keyword, a la "await" in 3.5, would lead to ambiguity: </p> <blockquote><p>group = KeyboardInterrupt<br> <br> try:<br> while True:<br> print("thou can only defeat me with Ctrl-C")<br> except group as error:<br> print("lo, thou hast defeated me")<br></p></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>Two things:</div><div><br></div><div>1. This is a convoluted example, I bet $100 you won't find such an `except group` statement in any code predating my e-mail 🤠 Sure, sometimes (very rarely) it's useful to gather exceptions in a variable. But I'm pretty sure `group` won't be the name chosen for it.</div><div><br></div><div>2. While non-obvious, the example is not ambiguous. There can only be one parsing rule fitting this:</div><div><br></div><div>'except' expression 'as' NAME ':'</div><div><br></div><div>Note how this is different from:</div><div><br></div><div>'except' 'group' expression 'as' NAME ':'</div><div><br></div><div>There could be confusion if except-star, whatever its name is going to be, supported an empty "catch all" variant like `except:`. Thankfully, this is explicitly listed as a no-go in PEP 654. So `except group:` remains unambiguous. We can even make its error message smarter than the default NameError, since -- as I claim -- it's terribly unlikely somebody would mean to name their dynamic exception collection "group".</div><div><br></div><div>- Ł</div></div></div></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/6593eeb9819cb/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; track:click" tabindex="0" aria-label="Download file signature.asc" role="link"><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 24 24" focusable="false" class="liLXp NMm5M"><path d="M14 2H6c-1.1 0-1.99.9-1.99 2L4 20c0 1.1.89 2 1.99 2H18c1.1 0 2-.9 2-2V8l-6-6zM6 20V4h7v5h5v11H6z"/></svg><div class="v4CGHc"><span class="DPvwYc DXr4rc" aria-hidden="true"></span><div class="t0OKhe"><div class="NJ8Umf">signature.asc</div><div class="rTCb4c"><div role="presentation" class="uArJ5e hyxAJb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i333" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Petr Viktorin, pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i328" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>> On 6 Oct 2021, at 16:01, Petr Viktorin <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">enc...@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> What about this: <br>> <br>> group = (KeyboardInterrupt, MemoryError) <br>> other_group = (KeyError, IndexError) <br>> <br>> try: <br>> ... <br>> except group + other_group as error: <br>> ... <br> <br></div>Haha, let's see if we can write a Mersienne twister all inside an except statement 👨🏻‍🔬 <br> <br>Joking aside, since we allow any expression after 'except' 'group' then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory! In practice, however, PEG is satisfied with the first rule that matches entirely, so this is a matter of choosing correct precedence. In this case, it seems it would make sense for "old-style" except to come first because your (convoluted! 🤠) example is potentially useful, whereas "except +TimeoutError:" is pure nonsense. <br> <br>I will prototype a PR for this just so we can play with it. <br> <br>- Ł <br></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/65ca629c71493/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; track:click" tabindex="0" aria-label="Download file signature.asc" role="link"><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 24 24" focusable="false" class="liLXp NMm5M"><path d="M14 2H6c-1.1 0-1.99.9-1.99 2L4 20c0 1.1.89 2 1.99 2H18c1.1 0 2-.9 2-2V8l-6-6zM6 20V4h7v5h5v11H6z"/></svg><div class="v4CGHc"><span class="DPvwYc DXr4rc" aria-hidden="true"></span><div class="t0OKhe"><div class="NJ8Umf">signature.asc</div><div class="rTCb4c"><div role="presentation" class="uArJ5e hyxAJb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i339" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i334" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">Łukasz Langa wrote: <br>> Joking aside, since we allow any expression after 'except' 'group' then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory! <br> <br></div>Another option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the “group” after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly: <br> <br>except MemoryError group as e: … <br>except (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: … <br>except some + expression group as e: … <br> <br>And edge-cases like this still work normally: <br> <br>except some + group as e: … <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836240000&usg=AOvVaw2FZ93MNZx6kNrblAjZcqsq">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836240000&usg=AOvVaw0vFp8BXYExeLNzHcNOvBVO">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i345" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Barry Warsaw, sascha.s...@me.com, Irit Katriel</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i340" role="region"><div dir="ltr"><div>I don't like `except group` or any variant with soft keywords.</div><div><br></div><div>I'll list a few reasons here:</div><div><br></div><div>1. `try: .. except group:` is a valid syntax today. And it will continue to be valid syntax. Having both `try: .. except group:` (catch exception `group`) and `try: .. except group E:` (catch exceptions of E into a group) in the same grammar worries me.<br></div><div><br></div><div>1a. It can be especially confusing if someone has a local/global variable called `group`.</div><div><br></div><div>1b. Or, for example, if a user forgets to type `E` and leaves just `except group` it would fallback to the regular try..except behavior. And it would be a runtime error ("group" is undefined).</div><div><br></div><div>1c. This will be all even more complicated because syntax highlighters in IDEs and on sites like GitHub will likely just always highlight `except group` as a pair of keywords (even in `except group:` variant).<br></div><div><br></div><div>2. I'm not sure I like the "sound" of it. IMO it would make more sense to write `except all E`, but `all()` is a built-in and so this would be at odds with (1).</div><div><br></div><div>3. This is a niche feature. People who use async/await will get used to `except*` in no time. `except*` is also about unpacking in some metaphysical sense (looks similar enough to `*args` in function signatures to me) so I think it reads just fine.</div><div><br></div><div>So I'm -1 on `except group` or any variant that uses soft keywords. If the SC considers making `group` a proper keyword I can possibly change my mind on this.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Yury<br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i351" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Łukasz Langa, pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i346" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 10/6/21 2:34 PM, Łukasz Langa wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div>On 6 Oct 2021, at 12:06, Larry Hastings <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">la...@hastings.org</a>> wrote:</div> <br> <div> <div> <p>It seems like, for this to work, "group" would have to become a keyword.</p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div>No, just like `match` and `case` didn't have to.</div> <br> <blockquote type="cite"> <div> <div> <p>This would play havoc with a lot of existing code.</p> </div> </div> </blockquote> <div>Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, Larry. I maintain this will be entirely backwards compatible.</div> </div> </blockquote> <p><br> </p> </div></div><div><p>My claim is that making "group" a hard-coded keyword, visible at all times, and thus no longer permitting use of "group" as an identifier, would play havoc with a lot of existing code. I don't think it's an extraordinary claim to say that "group" is a reasonably popular identifier. For example, I offer the 1,117 uses of the word "group" in the Python 3.10.0 Lib/ directory tree. (I admit I didn't review them all to see which ones were actual identifiers, and which ones were in strings or documentation.)<br> </p> <p>If the proposal is to add it as some "it's only a keyword in this context" magic thing, a la how "async"/"await" were "soft keywords" in 3.5, and if we otherwise would permit the word "group" to be used as an identifier in perpetuity--okay, it won't cause this problem.<br> </p></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div> <p><br> </p> <p> <blockquote type="cite">We can even make its error message smarter than the default NameError, since -- as I claim -- it's terribly unlikely somebody would mean to name their dynamic exception collection "group".</blockquote> </p> </div></div><div><p>I concede I don't completely understand PEP 654 yet, much less the counter-proposals flying around right now. But it does seem like "except group" has the potential to be ambiguous, given that "group" is a reasonably popular identifier.<br> </p> <p><br> </p> <p><i>/arry</i><br> </p> </div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,LKu-R_BhBgAJ;69"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; mouseup:v4KoQ; keydown:v4KoQ;AHmuwe:mpYVcf;O22p3e:jmJIU;K7NtBe:f7gSD;OXWwLe:cpXlEe;wlB9we:PTiTyd;pQRm0e:pyCc2c" soy-skip ssk='6:CWF4kd'></div></div></div></section><section class="BkrUxb" jscontroller="ywEdOe" data-doc-id="xssQ3iFiBgAJ" data-subject="[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting" data-is-first="false" data-author="Antoine Pitrou" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; keydown:hXsouf; click:mHokFf(A9KrYd),gfTIJc(yjbGtf),hXsouf;" tabindex="0" aria-expanded="true" role="listitem"><div class="eH2Xlc" tabindex="-1"><div class="oXnYGc"><div class=" Dyb9Ge" aria-hidden="true"><div class="tGPUJe"><div class="xPx9xc Ajdkue"><img src="//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXKcH_MfPBpWfe991UbH_m9An3SNJNmhJSarXuQPbIhsbqRb98=s40-c" alt="Antoine Pitrou's profile photo" role="presentation"></div></div></div><div class="X7AGAf"><div class="UZ2tvc" jsname="A9KrYd"><div class="NcB7hc"><div class="LgTNRd"><h3 class="s1f8Zd" id="i352">Antoine Pitrou</h3></div><span class="oXzbyc">unread,</span><div class="ELCJ4d"><span class="zX2W9c">Oct 7, 2021, 12:18:04 AM</span><span class="Rrziwd">10/7/21</span><div jscontroller="XyWitb" jsaction="JIbuQc:nfEq0c(LgbsSe)" class="jX3HFe c5jofc" data-group-email="dev-python@googlegroups.com" data-conv-id="G3p9_jovyus" data-starred="false" data-message-id="xssQ3iFiBgAJ"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db pzr7Cc RDPZE" jslog="82178; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i357" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i352" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 09:05:57 -0700 <br>Yury Selivanov <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">yseliv...@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> So I'm -1 on `except group` or any variant that uses soft keywords. If the <br>> SC considers making `group` a proper keyword I can possibly change my mind <br>> on this. <br> <br></div>How about a dedicated keyword such as "exceptany" or "exceptall"? <br> <br>Regards <br> <br>Antoine. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br> <br>_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836244000&usg=AOvVaw0-iYuKMID-iBLe33-K2pId">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MO3XHOBKG2USFV5VEKZDZ3GBV7V2WJFO/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MO3XHOBKG2USFV5VEKZDZ3GBV7V2WJFO/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836244000&usg=AOvVaw07MLl8NWCd7VTQkS50o8ve">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/MO3XHOBKG2USFV5VEKZDZ3GBV7V2WJFO/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i363" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i358" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">Łukasz Langa wrote: <br>> Joking aside, since we allow any expression after 'except' 'group' then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory! <br> <br></div>The ambiguity with function calls, though, is probably a dealbreaker: <br> <br>except group (E1, E2) as e: … <br>except group(E1, E2) as e: … <br> <br>See my other message for an alternative (putting “group” after the expression). <br> <br>Brandt <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836244000&usg=AOvVaw0-iYuKMID-iBLe33-K2pId">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BUK2YFLH4TPIRTPG5JAYKNEWOBJTHC2B/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BUK2YFLH4TPIRTPG5JAYKNEWOBJTHC2B/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836244000&usg=AOvVaw2I3VTCizB_D5bxrdUdomn8">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/BUK2YFLH4TPIRTPG5JAYKNEWOBJTHC2B/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" data-disabled-tooltip="You cannot report your own message" aria-describedby="i374" aria-label="Report message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="mTtSFe" jslog="202374; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Report message</div></div></span><span jsslot class="z80M1 RDPZE FeRvI" jsaction="click:o6ZaF(preventDefault=true); mousedown:lAhnzb; mouseup:Osgxgf; mouseenter:SKyDAe; mouseleave:xq3APb;touchstart:jJiBRc; touchmove:kZeBdd; touchend:VfAz8" jsname="j7LFlb" aria-disabled="true" data-disabled-tooltip="Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message" aria-describedby="i375" aria-label="Show original message" role="menuitem" tabindex="-1"><div class="aBBjbd MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><div class="uyYuVb oJeWuf" jsname="H2AOBd" jslog="109822; track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i375" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Brandt Bucher, pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i370" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>> On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:14, Brandt Bucher <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">brandt...@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br>> <br>> Łukasz Langa wrote: <br>>> Joking aside, since we allow any expression after 'except' 'group' then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory! <br>> <br>> The ambiguity with function calls, though, is probably a dealbreaker: <br>> <br>> except group (E1, E2) as e: … <br>> except group(E1, E2) as e: … <br> <br></div>Ding ding, we have a winner. This single-handedly kills the "except group" syntax proposal. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br> <br>> See my other message for an alternative (putting “group” after the expression). <br> <br></div>It's interesting but at this point not so clearly better than except* to my eyes. Unless everybody else loves it, I don't think we'll go there. <br> <br>- Ł <br></div><div class="c2eF9b"><div class="E3gXse" jscontroller="Ai4Tv" jsaction="click:lkS8Jd;" data-view-attachment-url="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/662cadb0b65fa/signature.asc?part=0.0.1&view=1" jslog="82509; track:click" tabindex="0" aria-label="Download file signature.asc" role="link"><svg width="40" height="40" viewBox="0 0 24 24" focusable="false" class="liLXp NMm5M"><path d="M14 2H6c-1.1 0-1.99.9-1.99 2L4 20c0 1.1.89 2 1.99 2H18c1.1 0 2-.9 2-2V8l-6-6zM6 20V4h7v5h5v11H6z"/></svg><div class="v4CGHc"><span class="DPvwYc DXr4rc" aria-hidden="true"></span><div class="t0OKhe"><div class="NJ8Umf">signature.asc</div><div class="rTCb4c"><div role="presentation" class="uArJ5e hyxAJb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow aria-label="Download" data-tooltip="Download" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><a class="IrxBzb TpQm9d JcMFxe" href="https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/662cadb0b65fa/signature.asc?part=0.0.1" aria-label="Download file signature.asc"><span class="DPvwYc PHe70c" aria-hidden="true"></span></a></div></div></div></div><div class="jJE1Ib"><div class="Rjhsyc"></div><svg class="NokTXd" viewBox="0 0 20 10"><polygon class="aWrtce" points="0,10 10,10 10,0"/><polygon class="yTCQbb" points="10,10 20,10 20,0"/></svg></div></div></div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,-mUL28piBgAJ;73"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i387" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Yury Selivanov, Barry Warsaw, sascha.s...@me.com, Irit Katriel</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i382" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:05, Yury Selivanov <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">yseliv...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div>I don't like `except group` or any variant with soft keywords.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>As Brandt just commented, this proposal is a no go due to confusion with function calls. I'll respond below anyway because looking through it was an interesting experience</div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>I'll list a few reasons here:</div><div><br></div><div>1. `try: .. except group:` is a valid syntax today. And it will continue to be valid syntax. Having both `try: .. except group:` (catch exception `group`) and `try: .. except group E:` (catch exceptions of E into a group) in the same grammar worries me.<br></div><div><br></div><div>1a. It can be especially confusing if someone has a local/global variable called `group`.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>This is a valid point, also raised by Pablo over WhatsApp (which happens to work today!). The particular hairy example has to do with your next point so let's go there first...</div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>1b. Or, for example, if a user forgets to type `E` and leaves just `except group` it would fallback to the regular try..except behavior. And it would be a runtime error ("group" is undefined).</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>Right. Worse yet, this wouldn't be a runtime error UNLESS user code raises an exception within that try: block. Otherwise Python would happily take the unbound name and run with it:</div><div><br></div><div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">>>> try:</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">... ...</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">... except group:</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">... ...</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">...</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">Ellipsis</span></font></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>When you raise:</div><div><br></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">>>> try:</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">... 1/0</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">... except group:</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">... ...</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">...</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">Traceback (most recent call last):</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal"> File "<stdin>", line 2, in <module></span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">ZeroDivisionError: division by zero</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal"><br></span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">Traceback (most recent call last):</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal"> File "<stdin>", line 3, in <module></span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">NameError: name 'group' is not defined</span></font></div></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>This is pretty confusing and in my eyes disqualifies the "except group" proposal. Pablo also claims it would be very hard to generate good error messages due to this and I can see why. My initial idea here was to modify this received `NameError` just like we do in other cases with the new "Did you mean" helper:</div><div><br></div><div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">>>> arg = 1</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">>>> ar</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">Traceback (most recent call last):</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal"> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module></span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">NameError: name 'ar' is not defined. Did you mean: 'arg'?</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">>>> def f():</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">... ar</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">...</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">>>> f()</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">Traceback (most recent call last):</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal"> File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module></span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal"> File "<stdin>", line 2, in f</span></font></div><div><font face="Courier New"><span style="font-style:normal">NameError: name 'ar' is not defined. Did you mean: 'arg'?</span></font></div></div><div><br></div><div>We could potentially do something similar to generate better error messages for "except group" confusion, right? Only <b>we can't</b> if `group` happens to be bound as a name in a reachable scope which Larry points out is a popular name. In this scenario any syntax errors would end up with terribly confusing TypeErrors or AttributeErrors and so on. This is unacceptable.</div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>1c. This will be all even more complicated because syntax highlighters in IDEs and on sites like GitHub will likely just always highlight `except group` as a pair of keywords (even in `except group:` variant).</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>This would a minor annoyance but definitely true.</div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>2. I'm not sure I like the "sound" of it. IMO it would make more sense to write `except all E`, but `all()` is a built-in and so this would be at odds with (1).</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>That I disagree with. "except KeyError" reads like "except if there's a KeyError". "except group KeyError" reads like "except if there's a group of KeyErrors". And if you said, "except group KeyError as eg", an ExceptionGroup with KeyErrors would be exactly what you're getting under `eg`.</div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>3. This is a niche feature. People who use async/await will get used to `except*` in no time. `except*` is also about unpacking in some metaphysical sense (looks similar enough to `*args` in function signatures to me) so I think it reads just fine.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>Agreed. Except-star will be fine, too.</div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div>So I'm -1 on `except group` or any variant that uses soft keywords. If the SC considers making `group` a proper keyword I can possibly change my mind on this.<br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>Making `group` a proper keyword is a no go. With Brandt's arguments, the entire idea is a no go. 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i393" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i388" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb">On 10/6/2021 5:05 PM, Yury Selivanov wrote: <br>> So I'm -1 on `except group` or any variant that uses soft keywords. If <br>> the SC considers making `group` a proper keyword I can possibly change <br>> my mind on this. <br> <br></div>For the record (and I'm sure I'm not the only one), I'm -100 on making <br>it a proper keyword. That would be disastrous (e.g. re.Match.group() <br>becomes unusable). <br> <br>A soft keyword, punctuation, or magic builtin are the only possibilities <br>here. <br> <br>"except all ..." is viable, since it's already a builtin that isn't <br>useful as "except all:". But if that's the case, "except ExceptionGroup" <br>is equally viable (with perhaps "except ExceptionGroup[Specific, Type]" <br>for filtering?) <br> <br>I'm not going to argue against "except *", as that's already been <br>accepted. But any alternative needs to: <br>* break the same amount of existing code (i.e. none) <br>* be equally/more readable and discoverable <br> <br>Since "except *" breaks *no* existing code, that's a pretty easy thing <br>to check for in any alternative. But since "*" here has no precedent (as <br>we've seen in this discussion), virtually any alternative is going to be <br>more readable. <br> <br>So enjoy bikeshedding, everyone :) Please don't break any of our code. <br> <br>Cheers, <br>Steve <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836250000&usg=AOvVaw0mZ4YdJkIj1oCTo5efOZb3">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YOTXVPFABO4YKQ7TSEA3NMGNF47MBH5T/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YOTXVPFABO4YKQ7TSEA3NMGNF47MBH5T/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836250000&usg=AOvVaw0FqlsV-8HrJ__ImY5-E2fN">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/YOTXVPFABO4YKQ7TSEA3NMGNF47MBH5T/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i405" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Brandt Bucher, python-dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i400" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 12:01 PM Brandt Bucher <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">brandt...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Łukasz Langa wrote:<br> > Joking aside, since we allow any expression after 'except' 'group' then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory!<br> <br> Another option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the “group” after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly:<br> <br> except MemoryError group as e: …<br> except (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: …<br> except some + expression group as e: …<br></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>I like the clarity of this a lot. +100<br></div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> <br> And edge-cases like this still work normally:<br> <br> except some + group as e: …<br> _______________________________________________<br> Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br> To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br> <a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836252000&usg=AOvVaw22uE-oltOtFuIm-86lQXa1">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br> Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836252000&usg=AOvVaw2uM44wIv04lQXMPlIcS6wb">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/</a><br> Code of Conduct: <a href="http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/" rel="noreferrer nofollow" target="_blank" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836252000&usg=AOvVaw2eeTeHN57XoymEnkDDtc0b">http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/</a><br> </blockquote></div></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i411" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Steve Dower, Python Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i406" role="region"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Just my two small cents: soft keywords have a cost as they make everything around them more complicated in</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">the parser. For example, creating custom error messages around soft keywords is one or two levels of magnitude</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">more complicated as sometimes you need to parse segments of syntactically invalid code, with some generality</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">(like "starts with this token and then anything can follow until this other token"). Soft keywords also make</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">highlighters' life more complicated as it has already been discussed.</div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)">And just to be clear: I am not saying they are bad, just that they are not free of cost.</div></div></div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,8WYjnZZmBgAJ;79"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; mouseup:v4KoQ; keydown:v4KoQ;AHmuwe:mpYVcf;O22p3e:jmJIU;K7NtBe:f7gSD;OXWwLe:cpXlEe;wlB9we:PTiTyd;pQRm0e:pyCc2c" soy-skip ssk='6:CWF4kd'></div></div></div></section><section class="BkrUxb" jscontroller="ywEdOe" data-doc-id="z1XHPR5nBgAJ" data-subject="[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting" data-is-first="false" data-author="Guido van Rossum" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i417" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Brandt Bucher, Python-Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i412" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 9:01 AM Brandt Bucher <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">brandt...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Another option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the “group” after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly:<br> <br> except MemoryError group as e: …<br> except (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: …<br> except some + expression group as e: …</blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div>Argh. This would be very easy to overlook. As the senior author of PEP 654 I am going to go with "except*". Since it was shown that "except group" has ambiguous edge cases the proposals have gotten worse, which to me is a good sign that we need to stop.</div></div><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>--Guido van Rossum (<a href="http://python.org/~guido" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://python.org/~guido&source=gmail&ust=1743567836254000&usg=AOvVaw0-nm1oVdeazCGvHYQLDW6p">python.org/~guido</a>)</div><div><i style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span>Pronouns</span>: he/him </i><a href="http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836254000&usg=AOvVaw3OdQUmwEKxextLCgS3g8bA"><i>(why is my <span>pronoun</span> here?)</i></a></div></div></div></div></div></div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,z1XHPR5nBgAJ;80"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i423" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to Guido van Rossum, Python-Dev</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i418" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:48, Guido van Rossum <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">gu...@python.org</a>> wrote:</div><br><div><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 9:01 AM Brandt Bucher <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">brandt...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Another option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the “group” after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly:<br> <br> except MemoryError group as e: …<br> except (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: …<br> except some + expression group as e: …</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Argh. This would be very easy to overlook. As the senior author of PEP 654 I am going to go with "except*". Since it was shown that "except group" has ambiguous edge cases the proposals have gotten worse, which to me is a good sign that we need to stop.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><div>With async it goes *before* def, for, with.</div><div>Can you put the group before the except in the same style?</div><div><br></div><div>try:</div><div><span style="white-space:pre"> </span>stuff...</div><div>group except :</div><div><span style="white-space:pre"> </span>handler...</div><div><br></div><div>Barry</div><div><br></div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>--Guido van Rossum (<a href="http://python.org/~guido" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://python.org/~guido&source=gmail&ust=1743567836255000&usg=AOvVaw2CRRo3GmhOv1j1TOuG0Zal">python.org/~guido</a>)</div><div><i style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)"><span>Pronouns</span>: he/him </i><a href="http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836255000&usg=AOvVaw3ATUQkkLlhriEsbEobddSf"><i>(why is my <span>pronoun</span> here?)</i></a></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div class="DTXlsb"><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div> _______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836255000&usg=AOvVaw15C8kxxtjhoWGs1Kxw2Iqj">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div style="word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RRHP6VRI5PUMRSIXKFQVR2E6L523NUVC/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RRHP6VRI5PUMRSIXKFQVR2E6L523NUVC/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836256000&usg=AOvVaw0lkUpNzfBY-Q6m0CeIOrhf">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/RRHP6VRI5PUMRSIXKFQVR2E6L523NUVC/</a></div></blockquote></div></div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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Jewett" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; keydown:hXsouf; click:mHokFf(A9KrYd),gfTIJc(yjbGtf),hXsouf;" tabindex="0" aria-expanded="true" role="listitem"><div class="eH2Xlc" tabindex="-1"><div class="oXnYGc"><div class=" Dyb9Ge" aria-hidden="true"><div class="tGPUJe"><div class="xPx9xc Ajdkue"><img src="//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXfIr_yxJLgRccY2x6Ei1m69nJHN3rrzcd7afe5UNalg38qQg=s40-c" alt="Jim J. Jewett's profile photo" role="presentation"></div></div></div><div class="X7AGAf"><div class="UZ2tvc" jsname="A9KrYd"><div class="NcB7hc"><div class="LgTNRd"><h3 class="s1f8Zd" id="i424">Jim J. Jewett</h3></div><span class="oXzbyc">unread,</span><div class="ELCJ4d"><span class="zX2W9c">Oct 7, 2021, 4:46:33 AM</span><span class="Rrziwd">10/7/21</span><div jscontroller="XyWitb" jsaction="JIbuQc:nfEq0c(LgbsSe)" class="jX3HFe c5jofc" data-group-email="dev-python@googlegroups.com" data-conv-id="G3p9_jovyus" data-starred="false" data-message-id="lpoGv8hwBgAJ"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db pzr7Cc RDPZE" jslog="82178; track:JIbuQc" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="LgbsSe" aria-label="Not starred" aria-disabled="true" tabindex="-1" data-tooltip="Not starred" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc Y995Ff" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db c5jofc RDPZE" jslog="82347; 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[`try: .. except group:` already being valid <br>> syntax today ] <br> <br>If anything, that makes "except all E" less of a problem; the built-in all is not an exception, so any current meaning would be, at the least, a dodgy renaming of a built-in to something unrelated -- in which case a reader *should* already be suspicious. <br> <br>-jJ <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836256000&usg=AOvVaw2JLgYZiFvnEPPXcy6yHAhD">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GRVMPGZFNE67GE25SQCRCQWZQFZMA7PX/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GRVMPGZFNE67GE25SQCRCQWZQFZMA7PX/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836256000&usg=AOvVaw1Xxjam2Vgz-lfI2qD-fmN4">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/GRVMPGZFNE67GE25SQCRCQWZQFZMA7PX/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i441" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i436" role="region">How about "except_group", or "exceptgroup"? That's definitely not ambiguous, and can certainly work as a soft keyword. <br><div class="DTXlsb"> <br>On 06/10/2021 11:06, Larry Hastings wrote: <br>> <br>> It seems like, for this to work, "group" would have to become a keyword. This would play havoc with a lot of existing code. I can't tell you how many times I've used the identifier "group" in my code, particularly when dealing with regular expressions. <br>> <br>> Even making it a soft keyword, a la "await" in 3.5, would lead to ambiguity: <br>> <br>> group = KeyboardInterrupt <br>> <br>> try: <br>> while True: <br>> print("thou can only defeat me with Ctrl-C") <br>> except group as error: <br>> print("lo, thou hast defeated me") <br>> <br>> <br></div>> //arry/ <br><div class="DTXlsb">> <br>> On 10/6/21 2:12 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote: <br>>> What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that’s still the best alternative I’ve seen. It’s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can’t be confused with unpacking syntax. <br>>> <br>>> -Barry <br>>> <br></div><div class="DTXlsb">>> wrote: <br>>> <br>>> I agree that *(E1, E2) looks like unpacking, how about <br>>> <br>>> except *E1 as error: ... <br>>> except (*E1, *E2) as error: ... <br>>> <br>>> even better would be if we could drop the braces: <br>>> except *E1, *E2 as error: ... <br></div>>>> [...] <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________<br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a><br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a><br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836258000&usg=AOvVaw0p4KNi8YZbl3j7uO1TUzbQ">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a><br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5N4FDYAW5AB2AXMGM6CBRSN6PK3IWMRD/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5N4FDYAW5AB2AXMGM6CBRSN6PK3IWMRD/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836258000&usg=AOvVaw2eKuhodsKN6kM2gHA4Z2Y-">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/5N4FDYAW5AB2AXMGM6CBRSN6PK3IWMRD/</a><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i447" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i442" role="region"><div class="DTXlsb"><div> <p><br> </p> <div>On 06/10/2021 17:35, Łukasz Langa wrote:<br> </div> <blockquote type="cite"> <br> <div> <blockquote type="cite"> <div>On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:05, Yury Selivanov <<a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">yseliv...@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div> </blockquote> </div> </blockquote></div></div><div> [...]</div><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; mousedown:UX7yZ; mouseup:lbsD7e; mouseenter:tfO1Yc; mouseleave:JywGue;touchstart:p6p2H; touchmove:FwuNnf; touchend:yfqBxc(preventDefault=true); touchcancel:JMtRjd;focus:AHmuwe; blur:O22p3e; contextmenu:mg9Pef;" jsshadow jsname="xNawpf" aria-label="Show trimmed content" tabindex="0" data-tooltip="Show trimmed content" aria-expanded="false" aria-live="assertive" data-tooltip-vertical-offset="-12" data-tooltip-horizontal-offset="0"><div class="PDXc1b MbhUzd" jsname="ksKsZd"></div><span jsslot class="XuQwKc"><span class="GmuOkf"><span class="DPvwYc fBueFe" aria-hidden="true"></span></span></span></div></div><div><p>Now a moot point, but this could be a SyntaxWarning.</p> </div> </div></div></div><div jsmodel="MUH4bb" jsdata="sfCYhb;106492330805131205439;10 z4dtG;106492330805131205439,G3p9_jovyus;11 kHXooc;106492330805131205439,jDVpt7rnBQAJ;85"><div class="w5YVod" jsname="xtcdFb" jscontroller="NC05qe" jsaction="LuROtc:cvoVrc;DB0tFc:J1W1pe;KNr2Nb:S2L98e; mouseup:v4KoQ; keydown:v4KoQ;AHmuwe:mpYVcf;O22p3e:jmJIU;K7NtBe:f7gSD;OXWwLe:cpXlEe;wlB9we:PTiTyd;pQRm0e:pyCc2c" soy-skip ssk='6:CWF4kd'></div></div></div></section><section class="BkrUxb" jscontroller="ywEdOe" data-doc-id="ymprA3KVAwAJ" data-subject="[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting" data-is-first="false" data-author="Steven D'Aprano" jsaction="VqL3Gc:xvWlrc;QvNAx:AHmuwe;JIbuQc:OOqk2e(onkYyb),OOqk2e(IgWJu),FUJCwf(OqWcW),Bmlfs(rKtXic),qHAave(k1xLRe);rcuQ6b:npT2md;DB0tFc:dvCNbf; 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track:JIbuQc"><div class="jO7h3c">Show original message</div></div></span><div id="i453" class="oXzbyc">Either email addresses are anonymous for this group or you need the view member email addresses permission to view the original message</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="JYW4cc"><span class="qFQw9e">to pytho...@python.org</span></div></div><div class="ptW7te" jsname="yjbGtf" aria-labelledby="i448" role="region">Rob Cliffe is having problems posting to the Python-Dev list, so he <br>posted an alternative suggestion to the Python-Ideas list: <br> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/6KQUQBKFGJSGDNXFZBSM5OXD2ISLIQTT/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/6KQUQBKFGJSGDNXFZBSM5OXD2ISLIQTT/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836262000&usg=AOvVaw0x0Tn0aAhg8n61kTUm9GWu">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python...@python.org/message/6KQUQBKFGJSGDNXFZBSM5OXD2ISLIQTT/</a> <br> <br>Rob's idea is to use "except for ..." with exception groups, instead of <br>a new keyword or symbol. <br> <br> <br>-- <br>Steve <br><div class="DTXlsb">_______________________________________________ <br>Python-Dev mailing list -- <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">pytho...@python.org</a> <br>To unsubscribe send an email to <a href data-email-masked rel="nofollow">python-d...@python.org</a> <br><a href="https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836262000&usg=AOvVaw0Hw4jUATb6NzLJUE6H9cR9">https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/</a> <br></div>Message archived at <a href="https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/62ZX4T226BCRQE7ZNJPSJNNBAP735K2J/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow" data-saferedirecturl="https://www.google.com/url?hl=en-US&q=https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/62ZX4T226BCRQE7ZNJPSJNNBAP735K2J/&source=gmail&ust=1743567836262000&usg=AOvVaw1q0pM1LkbwEn7vIopAwzbz">https://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/62ZX4T226BCRQE7ZNJPSJNNBAP735K2J/</a> <br><div class="wqmMgb" jscontroller="OgSBv" jsaction="JIbuQc:jkaCtf(xNawpf);"><div role="button" class="uArJ5e Y5FYJe cjq2Db gU0jsb" jscontroller="VXdfxd" jsaction="click:cOuCgd; 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Topics include Python design issues, release mechanics, and maintenance of existing releases.",false,1,false,1,false,false,false,[null,"This is a \u003ci\u003eread-only\u003c/i\u003e mirror of the \u003ca href\u003d\"http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567835732000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw34N1uzjGg3iVdpp75xDQgG\"\u003epython-dev\u003c/a\u003e mailing list.\u003cbr\u003e"],false,null,false,false], sideChannel: {}});</script><script class="ds:9" nonce="eeL2IrARQFmdrcMSX3cigg">AF_initDataCallback({key: 'ds:9', data:[7],errorHasStatus: true,});</script><script class="ds:3" nonce="eeL2IrARQFmdrcMSX3cigg">AF_initDataCallback({key: 'ds:3', data:[7],errorHasStatus: true,});</script><script class="ds:4" nonce="eeL2IrARQFmdrcMSX3cigg">AF_initDataCallback({key: 'ds:4', hash: '4', data:[], sideChannel: {}});</script><script class="ds:1" nonce="eeL2IrARQFmdrcMSX3cigg">AF_initDataCallback({key: 'ds:1', hash: '5', data:[["106492330805131205439","dev-python@googlegroups.com"],[false,false,false,null,false]], sideChannel: {}});</script><script class="ds:0" nonce="eeL2IrARQFmdrcMSX3cigg">AF_initDataCallback({key: 'ds:0', hash: '6', data:[[["106492330805131205439","dev-python@googlegroups.com"],null,false,true,false,false,false,false,false,false,false,false,true,false,false,false]], sideChannel: {}});</script><script class="ds:7" nonce="eeL2IrARQFmdrcMSX3cigg">AF_initDataCallback({key: 'ds:7', hash: '8', data:[["106492330805131205439","dev-python@googlegroups.com"],"G3p9_jovyus",158], sideChannel: {}});</script><script class="ds:6" nonce="eeL2IrARQFmdrcMSX3cigg">AF_initDataCallback({key: 'ds:6', hash: '9', data:[["106492330805131205439","dev-python@googlegroups.com"],["106492330805131205439","G3p9_jovyus","[Python-Dev] PEP 654 except* formatting","Rob Cliffe is having problems posting to the Python-Dev list, so he posted an alternative suggestion",[1634524998,691000000],[1634524435],75,false,false,[[["Irit Katriel via Python-Dev"],["Steven D'Aprano"]],29],1,false,2,[[0],0,[2],[0]]],[[[["106492330805131205439","Ml6uvMd0BQAJ",[["Irit Katriel via Python-Dev"],[["python-dev"]],null,[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] PEP 654 except* formatting","We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better: 1. except *E as e: //",[1633276113,1000000],[1633276077],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWe wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e1. except *E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except *(E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e2. except* E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except* (E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e(The difference is in the whitespace around the *).\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eAt the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003eIt is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested.\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","Ml6uvMd0BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","kQ8-rmR1BQAJ",[["Thomas Grainger","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXn1hORbyB8HT3MA3WLruQ2At6crmuczogQYl8xAxfgeLasEuT35Q",null,"108112274630063155290"],[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"]],[["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","What about `except case ExceptionGroup[E1 | E2]:`? and use match semantics? On Sun, 3 Oct 2021, 16:50",[1633276786,980000000],[1633276460],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003eWhat about `except case ExceptionGroup[E1 | E2]:`? and use match semantics?\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, 3 Oct 2021, 16:50 Irit Katriel via Python-Dev, \u0026lt;\u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWe wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e1. except *E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except *(E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e2. except* E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except* (E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e(The difference is in the whitespace around the *).\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eAt the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003eIt is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested.\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer noreferrer nofollow\" 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data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836178000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0exDefHV-uqvzXYp7MyyYV\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","kQ8-rmR1BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","_4ja6QR3BQAJ",[["Guido van Rossum","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"],[["Thomas Grainger","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXn1hORbyB8HT3MA3WLruQ2At6crmuczogQYl8xAxfgeLasEuT35Q",null,"108112274630063155290"]],[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"],["python-dev"]],[["gu...@python.org","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","We\u0026#39;ll, typically you don\u0026#39;t explicitly mention ExceptionGroup \u2014 it\u0026#39;s implied by the \u0026#39;",[1633278574,778000000],[1633278285],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003eWe\u2019ll, typically you don\u2019t explicitly mention ExceptionGroup \u2014 it\u2019s implied by the \u2018except*\u2019 syntax. Introducing match semantics probably wouldn\u2019t open up new functionality, you can already write \u2018except (E1, E2):\u2019.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 09:00 Thomas Grainger \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003etag...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003eWhat about `except case ExceptionGroup[E1 | E2]:`? and use match semantics?\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, 3 Oct 2021, 16:50 Irit Katriel via Python-Dev, \u0026lt;\u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWe wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e1. except *E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except *(E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e2. except* E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except* (E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e(The difference is in the whitespace around the *).\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eAt the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003eIt is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested.\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" 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data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836179000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw23hMxljAcf_ZQUK4kFlaNw\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XNZNX2M2PQ24VEH5GWCGVFS5EY6XMRAX/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XNZNX2M2PQ24VEH5GWCGVFS5EY6XMRAX/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836179000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1yZEBZVoAOYOFE7Pxfitz6\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/XNZNX2M2PQ24VEH5GWCGVFS5EY6XMRAX/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836179000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2FFSHW1KOoMpHQxs-S6Fvi\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\" data-smartmail\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e--Guido (mobile)\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","_4ja6QR3BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","EIMXW3R3BQAJ",[["Paul Moore","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXfV5M5ejrD1LCaQTmrTvnInt1zckqtkJi6twIJRUgEVqPQXZQ",null,"106804344141986234972"],[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"]],[["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 16:55, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev \u0026lt;pytho...@python.org\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt;",[1633279053,273000000],[1633278770],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 at 16:55, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; (The difference is in the whitespace around the *).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"I prefer (1). I never liked C declarations where the * was attached to\r\u003cbr\u003ethe type rather than the variable, and I have the same dislike here.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Having said the above, it\u0026#39;s a matter of taste/preference, so I think\r\u003cbr\u003ethat allowing both is the correct thing to do.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; It is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Let\u0026#39;s stick with \u0026quot;except *\u0026quot;. It doesn\u0026#39;t seem productive to have\r\u003cbr\u003eanother round of bikeshedding at this point, unless there\u0026#39;s a really\r\u003cbr\u003ecompelling technical reason (i.e., something significantly more than\r\u003cbr\u003emere bikeshedding).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003ePaul\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836181000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1cG85bgNoNLqT97yMh1pUl\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BZ55ZMS5S5E7KPNP7AR7N2BSA35KVKF3/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BZ55ZMS5S5E7KPNP7AR7N2BSA35KVKF3/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836181000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw04hoD2utnILxQRU44QGf0L\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/BZ55ZMS5S5E7KPNP7AR7N2BSA35KVKF3/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836181000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3nbtVbDf34xhLMA4a5WVqi\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","EIMXW3R3BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","2OPLiaB3BQAJ",[["Jim J. Jewett","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXfIr_yxJLgRccY2x6Ei1m69nJHN3rrzcd7afe5UNalg38qQg",null,"113482214428245057633"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","except* looks like the exception statement has a footnote, which isn\u0026#39;t wrong. *(E1, E2) looks",[1633279243,72000000],[1633278925],2],[2,[[1,[null,"except* looks like the exception statement has a footnote, which isn\u0026#39;t wrong.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e*(E1, E2) looks like they are being unpacked, which is wrong.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-jJ\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836181000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1cG85bgNoNLqT97yMh1pUl\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/7IKS3YFPFT5JO7QBJGNPMM33XUYKK7CK/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/7IKS3YFPFT5JO7QBJGNPMM33XUYKK7CK/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836181000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0Kj35Fnaf7cLqIeEwPjPiU\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/7IKS3YFPFT5JO7QBJGNPMM33XUYKK7CK/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836181000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3nbtVbDf34xhLMA4a5WVqi\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","2OPLiaB3BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","9XbdyrJ3BQAJ",[["Steven D'Aprano"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote: \u0026gt; We wonder if people",[1633279321,568000000],[1633279075],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"That looks like you\u0026#39;re unpacking the tuple (E1, E2), and that\u0026#39;s just \r\u003cbr\u003emisleading and wrong.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"That looks like it is the \u0026quot;except\u0026quot; keyword which is special, not the \r\u003cbr\u003etuple. If we\u0026#39;re going to have yet another meaning for star \r\u003cbr\u003e(multiplication, replication, unpacking, powers, wildcard imports...) \r\u003cbr\u003ethen I vote for 2.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eBut Thomas Grainger\u0026#39;s comment about match semantics got me thinking. I \r\u003cbr\u003ethink his suggestion is a bit too verbose, but how do people feel about \r\u003cbr\u003eborrowing the vertical line and using it like this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e except| E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e except| (E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eAgain, it\u0026#39;s attached to the except keyword, to indicate that it\u0026#39;s the \r\u003cbr\u003ekeyword which is special, not a unary prefix operator on the E.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eThe vertical line is suggestive of grouping something with a box around \r\u003cbr\u003eit:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e +-----------------+\r\u003cbr\u003e | group of things |\r\u003cbr\u003e +-----------------+\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eand of the lines used in tracebacks shown in the PEP. So the output \r\u003cbr\u003ehelps remind you of the syntax.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-- \r\u003cbr\u003eSteve\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836182000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3_2RkOcCaQAsvuCoqpLec3\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EA7E3EGQ6WB5O3ITPTN53C4CMFHDLBFK/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EA7E3EGQ6WB5O3ITPTN53C4CMFHDLBFK/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836182000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0yHYhDp7pNzfuCOAMoGakd\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/EA7E3EGQ6WB5O3ITPTN53C4CMFHDLBFK/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836182000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2hZDsc2X0YVuzOk5tnSMou\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","9XbdyrJ3BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","5QalY0V7BQAJ",[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"],[["Steven D'Aprano"]],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","\u0026gt; On 3 Oct 2021, at 18:37, Steven D\u0026#39;Aprano \u0026lt;st...@pearwood.info\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt; On Sun",[1633283249,385000000],[1633282949],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 3 Oct 2021, at 18:37, Steven D\u0026#39;Aprano \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003est...@pearwood.info\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 04:47:57PM +0100, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; That looks like you\u0026#39;re unpacking the tuple (E1, E2), and that\u0026#39;s just\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; misleading and wrong.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Interestingly, IIRC this was the original intention: `except *E as e` means you\u0026#39;re unpacking E from some group.\r\u003cbr\u003eI agree this is a somewhat convoluted analogy and it breaks down in the presence of a tuple of exception names.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u0026gt; But Thomas Grainger\u0026#39;s comment about match semantics got me thinking.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Uh oh ;-)\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; I think his suggestion is a bit too verbose, but how do people feel about\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; borrowing the vertical line and using it like this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except| E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except| (E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"-1\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eIf I could read the vertical line as a pipe character, the expression would read \u0026quot;except or E as e\u0026quot;.\r\u003cbr\u003eBut I can\u0026#39;t read it that way anyway. Instead, all I see is a lowercase EXCEPTL.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eMy idea is this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003etry:\r\u003cbr\u003e ...\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept group E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e ...\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept group E1, T2 as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eShould be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. But I know it\u0026#39;s a bit late for bikeshedding this thing so if we want to be conservative and stick to the current syntactical options already defined in PEP 654, I\u0026#39;m voting Option 2 (given the awkwardness of the *(E1, E2) example).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e- \u0141\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/57b4563a506e5/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","5QalY0V7BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","cTOew0d7BQAJ",[["Brandt Bucher","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXXEziMjanubXrrpm114UHwjq2P6ZAKVXGoaXGVONFfFXmIb_qu",null,"113884020998869516839"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","Irit Katriel wrote: \u0026gt; It is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better",[1633283259,857000000],[1633282938],2],[2,[[2,[null,"Irit Katriel wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; It is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Honestly, I\u2019ve never been a fan of the PEP\u2019s proposed star syntax.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eIf we\u2019re okay adding a soft keyword, though, something like \u201cexcept each\u201d could help communicate the meaning of the blocks a bit more explicitly. I\u2019m pretty sure that grammar would be unambiguous in all cases.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836184000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0F8KY7L8myTKQYldAJklVI\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/44TWMI3PV3TKRL6ZJ4YU3GMQ6W43EHU5/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/44TWMI3PV3TKRL6ZJ4YU3GMQ6W43EHU5/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836184000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3jkf6AaNolTjO8eAR9LESN\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/44TWMI3PV3TKRL6ZJ4YU3GMQ6W43EHU5/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836184000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0ft3c5vUgtDoXVMFK4jIXv\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","cTOew0d7BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","GUD3o5t7BQAJ",[["Brandt Bucher","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXXEziMjanubXrrpm114UHwjq2P6ZAKVXGoaXGVONFfFXmIb_qu",null,"113884020998869516839"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","\u0141ukasz Langa wrote: \u0026gt; My idea is this: \u0026gt; try: \u0026gt; ... \u0026gt; except group E as e: \u0026gt; ... \u0026gt;",[1633283620,138000000],[1633283449],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; My idea is this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group E1, T2 as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Heh, we crossed posts with the soft keywords. I like your idea (\u201cexcept group\u201d) better than mine (\u201cexcept each\u201d).\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836185000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2SykBhkpzonpyV_SEzwJK5\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4FPTSD6VAIJD2WSP63KQUOQLDAOI3EWR/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4FPTSD6VAIJD2WSP63KQUOQLDAOI3EWR/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836185000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0CqT30JRI6C-tv07E6ydf0\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/4FPTSD6VAIJD2WSP63KQUOQLDAOI3EWR/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836185000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw071kWZ1mhq6_GusG4PYIyW\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","GUD3o5t7BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","j1MfW7l8BQAJ",[["MRAB"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 2021-10-03 18:50, Brandt Bucher wrote: \u0026gt; \u0141ukasz Langa wrote: \u0026gt;\u0026gt; My idea is this: \u0026gt;\u0026gt;",[1633284847,367000000],[1633284675],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On 2021-10-03 18:50, Brandt Bucher wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; My idea is this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except group E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except group E1, T2 as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Heh, we crossed posts with the soft keywords. I like your idea (\u201cexcept group\u201d) better than mine (\u201cexcept each\u201d).\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; If we want to use an existing keyword instead of a soft keyword, how \r\u003cbr\u003eabout \u0026quot;except in E as e:\u0026quot;.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eThe disadvantage, as I see it, from a linguistic point of view, is that \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026quot;except in\u0026quot; could be read as \u0026quot;excluding\u0026quot;, but, then, so could \u0026quot;except \r\u003cbr\u003eeach\u0026quot; (\u0026quot;excluding each of these\u0026quot;) and \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; (\u0026quot;excluding this \r\u003cbr\u003egroup\u0026quot;).\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836186000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3dvUz9G_CtiPxsjVwpa869\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836186000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0WeOvK-5okOrPg_IgOk6gN\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836186000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1DJsnwxJ-95iz-ITqIdZuf\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","j1MfW7l8BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","cYoxcnh9BQAJ",[["Irit Katriel via Python-Dev"],[["MRAB"]],[["pytho...@python.org"]],[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","We can drop except. Say: try: .. handle T1: \u2026 handle T2: \u2026 Or \u0026#39;catch\u0026#39;, or something else.",[1633285668,9000000],[1633285387],2],[2,[[1,[null,"We can drop except. Say:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003etry:\r\u003cbr\u003e ..\r\u003cbr\u003ehandle T1:\r\u003cbr\u003e \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003ehandle T2:\r\u003cbr\u003e \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eOr \u2018catch\u2019, or something else.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 3 Oct 2021, at 19:12, MRAB \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \ufeffOn 2021-10-03 18:50, Brandt Bucher wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; My idea is this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except group E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except group E1, T2 as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Heh, we crossed posts with the soft keywords. I like your idea (\u201cexcept group\u201d) better than mine (\u201cexcept each\u201d).\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; If we want to use an existing keyword instead of a soft keyword, how \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; about \u0026quot;except in E as e:\u0026quot;.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; The disadvantage, as I see it, from a linguistic point of view, is that \u0026quot;except in\u0026quot; could be read as \u0026quot;excluding\u0026quot;, but, then, so could \u0026quot;except each\u0026quot; (\u0026quot;excluding each of these\u0026quot;) and \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; (\u0026quot;excluding this group\u0026quot;).\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; _______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Python-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; To unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836187000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0FaptuWttTnwgAwNCsJeze\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836187000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2V3wnHIYxaNOHaObntLb5H\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/FUTYE36MLFAWU72KTHDEQY5JFDA2PQ4G/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836187000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw19AWlRDJLcbCgh2n7F1BBg\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836187000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0FaptuWttTnwgAwNCsJeze\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/K3I7552LB6O5XS3KWLC2C2U5XME43HQ5/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/K3I7552LB6O5XS3KWLC2C2U5XME43HQ5/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836187000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3pvkdqUYuEvvBjWmATc--U\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/K3I7552LB6O5XS3KWLC2C2U5XME43HQ5/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836187000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw19AWlRDJLcbCgh2n7F1BBg\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","cYoxcnh9BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","5_ekph9-BQAJ",[["Guido van Rossum","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"],[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"]],[["Python-Dev"]],[["gu...@python.org","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 11:28 AM Irit Katriel via Python-Dev \u0026lt;pytho...@python.org\u0026gt; wrote: We",[1633286386,204000000],[1633286095],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 11:28 AM Irit Katriel via Python-Dev \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003eWe can drop except. Say:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\ntry:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u00a0 ..\u003cbr\u003e\r\nhandle T1:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u00a0 \u00a0\u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\nhandle T2:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u00a0 \u00a0\u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nOr \u2018catch\u2019, or something else.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWe\u0026#39;re going around in circles. We considered \u0026#39;catch\u0026#39; early on, but decided against it since, comparing \u0026#39;except E\u0026#39; and \u0026#39;catch E\u0026#39;, there would be no good way to tell which is the recommended one (and the same would apply to another single keyword like \u0026#39;handle\u0026#39;). At least with \u0026#39;except*\u0026#39;, it\u0026#39;s easy to remember that this is a modified version of \u0026#39;except\u0026#39;, so it\u0026#39;s probably meant for a special case.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eI also think that the bar should be pretty high before we reopen the *syntax* -- the PEP was approved without anyone (neither the SC, nor Nathaniel, nor anyone else) providing any feedback on the use of \u0026#39;except *\u0026#39;. So I think it\u0026#39;s a bit late to be bikeshedding the syntax. This thread was meant to solicit feedback on how to *format* it: does the space go before or after the \u0026#39;*\u0026#39;.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e--Guido van Rossum (\u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/~guido\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/~guido\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836189000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0cNYBtpd9vHzPdRLxO9b1_\"\u003epython.org/~guido\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ci style\u003d\"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003ePronouns\u003c/span\u003e: he/him \u003c/i\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836189000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1RjYj_vQtscdPi3igjhKqp\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e(why is my\u00a0\u003cspan\u003epronoun\u003c/span\u003e\u00a0here?)\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","5_ekph9-BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","0DM0rh2DBQAJ",[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"],[["MRAB"]],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","\u0026gt; On 3 Oct 2021, at 20:11, MRAB \u0026lt;pyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt; On 2021-10-03",[1633291875,98000000],[1633291589],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 3 Oct 2021, at 20:11, MRAB \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epyt...@mrabarnett.plus.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 2021-10-03 18:50, Brandt Bucher wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; My idea is this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except group E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except group E1, T2 as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Heh, we crossed posts with the soft keywords. I like your idea (\u201cexcept group\u201d) better than mine (\u201cexcept each\u201d).\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; If we want to use an existing keyword instead of a soft keyword, how\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; about \u0026quot;except in E as e:\u0026quot;.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; The disadvantage, as I see it, from a linguistic point of view, is that \u0026quot;except in\u0026quot; could be read as \u0026quot;excluding\u0026quot;, but, then, so could \u0026quot;except each\u0026quot; (\u0026quot;excluding each of these\u0026quot;) and \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; (\u0026quot;excluding this group\u0026quot;).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"If you\u0026#39;re thinking that, then doesn\u0026#39;t \u0026quot;except KeyError\u0026quot; mean \u0026quot;everything except for KeyErrors\u0026quot;? I don\u0026#39;t see the problem.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e- \u0141\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/5831dae3433d0/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","0DM0rh2DBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","wr6ddp-FBQAJ",[["Gregory P. Smith","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVwUZpUialCwMJ93IVL3ZtUfnqBWgMyU2IxwRxx1wfuKA62SSQhqw",null,"114757086782429944364"],[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"]],[["Python-Dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM \u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;luk...@langa.pl\u0026gt; wrote: I know it\u0026#39;s a bit",[1633294631,423000000],[1633294223],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 10:47 AM \u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eluk...@langa.pl\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u00a0I know it\u0026#39;s a bit late for bikeshedding this thing so if we want to be conservative and stick to the current syntactical options already defined in PEP 654, I\u0026#39;m voting Option 2 (given the awkwardness of the *(E1, E2) example).\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e+1 on the `except* E` Option 2 syntax.\u00a0It better conveys its uniqueness and non-relation to other\u00a0meanings of *.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eSomeone mentioned allowing both and letting people decide.\u00a0 Whatever is chosen, please not that.\u00a0 There should be only one way to write this.\u00a0 That avoids style arguments when no auto-formatter is involved.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e-gps\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n- \u0141\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836192000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0TdpK-lEFVaRMFiMABOH8F\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/T7QZJ575RFNYZ5KMYD66YMR2ZLNDVF56/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/T7QZJ575RFNYZ5KMYD66YMR2ZLNDVF56/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836192000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3wqNQLaPbOFOi0J_2BgO8N\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/T7QZJ575RFNYZ5KMYD66YMR2ZLNDVF56/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836192000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3ueJU1e4EwrAlTiWCR2dQ5\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","wr6ddp-FBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","2lBRjkeQBQAJ",[["Barry Warsaw","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWdblMxTEw2ssp_7h9xeepvLP8b-u1xc9tKQgCYLYpwXctb2A",null,"107995332406558523286"],[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"]],[["Irit Katriel"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:42, \u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;luk...@langa.pl\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt; My idea is this: \u0026gt;",[1633306348,399000000],[1633305478],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:42, \u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eluk...@langa.pl\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; My idea is this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group E1, T2 as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. But I know it\u0026#39;s a bit late for bikeshedding this thing so if we want to be conservative and stick to the current syntactical options already defined in PEP 654, I\u0026#39;m voting Option 2 (given the awkwardness of the *(E1, E2) example).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Speaking just for myself, the `except *` syntax always bothered me, but I couldn\u2019t come up with anything better and it wasn\u2019t enough for me to vote against PEP 654. `except group` is nicer though, and I would be in favor of that, or something like it.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eWe could of course bike shed on the syntax forever. The PSC did vote to accept the PEP but we left room for changes while during the 3.11 cycle.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-Barry\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/590478e5150da/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","2lBRjkeQBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","H7efXsWbBQAJ",[["Steven D'Aprano"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 11:34:55AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: \u0026gt; I also think that the bar",[1633318983,660000000],[1633318653],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 11:34:55AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; I also think that the bar should be pretty high before we reopen the\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; *syntax* -- the PEP was approved without anyone (neither the SC, nor\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Nathaniel, nor anyone else) providing any feedback on the use of \u0026#39;except\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; *\u0026#39;. So I think it\u0026#39;s a bit late to be bikeshedding the syntax. This thread\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; was meant to solicit feedback on how to *format* it: does the space go\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; before or after the \u0026#39;*\u0026#39;.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"`except* E`, otherwise it looks like unpacking E.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eDone! Bikeshedding is over! *wink*\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eAll joking aside, my preference is to put the star on the except, not \r\u003cbr\u003ethe exceptions. I don\u0026#39;t think I have anything more to say that hasn\u0026#39;t \r\u003cbr\u003ealready been said, so I\u0026#39;ll bow out now.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-- \r\u003cbr\u003eSteve\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836194000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2NXjr49vGmSgVtlnyc3jeS\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5TRLGMHCOTEF3MMR6GR35TLG6TPG63VJ/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5TRLGMHCOTEF3MMR6GR35TLG6TPG63VJ/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836194000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw31lAvyi5MVLZ0ZrLTl3vxC\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/5TRLGMHCOTEF3MMR6GR35TLG6TPG63VJ/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836194000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3f9dg7SWnjaLyhFqw4jr06\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","H7efXsWbBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","SBrvGcedBQAJ",[["Jonathan Goble","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUTqC6CXqW6dbRtAAb4RblTt2XZwPzZENJX3x7lavCtRtY2Xsx1",null,"111811712035391477004"],[["Python Dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 11:40 PM Steven D\u0026#39;Aprano \u0026lt;st...@pearwood.info\u0026gt; wrote: On Sun, Oct 03",[1633321190,116000000],[1633321054],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 11:40 PM Steven D\u0026#39;Aprano \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003est...@pearwood.info\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 03, 2021 at 11:34:55AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; I also think that the bar should be pretty high before we reopen the\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; *syntax* -- the PEP was approved without anyone (neither the SC, nor\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; Nathaniel, nor anyone else) providing any feedback on the use of \u0026#39;except\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; *\u0026#39;. So I think it\u0026#39;s a bit late to be bikeshedding the syntax. This thread\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; was meant to solicit feedback on how to *format* it: does the space go\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; before or after the \u0026#39;*\u0026#39;.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n`except* E`, otherwise it looks like unpacking E.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eI think it\u0026#39;s worth noting that the following is already legal:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e Python 3.9.7 (tags/v3.9.7:1016ef3, Aug 30 2021, 20:19:38) [MSC v.1929 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32\u003cbr\u003eType \u0026quot;help\u0026quot;, \u0026quot;copyright\u0026quot;, \u0026quot;credits\u0026quot; or \u0026quot;license\u0026quot; for more information.\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; exceptions \u003d (ValueError, TypeError)\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\u003cbr\u003e... \u00a0 raise TypeError\u003cbr\u003e... except exceptions:\u003cbr\u003e... \u00a0 print(\u0026quot;caught\u0026quot;)\u003cbr\u003e...\u003cbr\u003ecaught\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eIndeed, when I first learned that you could do this (a few years ago IIRC), my first thought was to unpack the \u0026quot;exceptions\u0026quot; tuple with a star. It wasn\u0026#39;t until I tried that and got a SyntaxError that I tried it the way shown here and it worked.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eAllowing `except *E` for this new feature would take that helpful-to-a-beginner SyntaxError and turn it into a subtle and unhelpful bug.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eTherefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","SBrvGcedBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","5GJox6OhBQAJ",[["Guido van Rossum","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"],[["Jonathan Goble","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUTqC6CXqW6dbRtAAb4RblTt2XZwPzZENJX3x7lavCtRtY2Xsx1",null,"111811712035391477004"]],[["Python Dev"]],[["gu...@python.org","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;jcgo...@gmail.com\u0026gt; wrote: Therefore my vote is",[1633325436,43000000],[1633325025],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eTherefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eYou can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser. \u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e--Guido van Rossum (\u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/~guido\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/~guido\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836196000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0v-vt5_p6r7l3StPvcc-S0\"\u003epython.org/~guido\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ci style\u003d\"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003ePronouns\u003c/span\u003e: he/him \u003c/i\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836196000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2CkBPcahtM5AagWy5foLjM\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e(why is my\u00a0\u003cspan\u003epronoun\u003c/span\u003e\u00a0here?)\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","5GJox6OhBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","W0E_8yikBQAJ",[["Greg Ewing","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWu5uCH8B-Hwr2IUW50YjRD5AFKyAeVh7wIdXV41b_hw0znDQ",null,"109166039066360441871"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 4/10/21 6:23 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote: \u0026gt; On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;",[1633328207,477000000],[1633327952],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On 4/10/21 6:23 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; *E` as a SyntaxError.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; You can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"I don\u0026#39;t think it would be desirable in any case. The separation of\r\u003cbr\u003etokens into alphanumeric and non-alphanumeric is deeply embedded in\r\u003cbr\u003eevery Python programmer\u0026#39;s brain by now, and we shouldn\u0026#39;t mess with\r\u003cbr\u003eit.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-- \r\u003cbr\u003eGreg\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836197000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw01_vkqSpkPyW0f-QY0y9HI\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XQXJEGYAWBTAUQI3BEIXDZO4SERAJYWF/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/XQXJEGYAWBTAUQI3BEIXDZO4SERAJYWF/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836197000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1bCTH9PWb9DM3-wzUG6kQj\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/XQXJEGYAWBTAUQI3BEIXDZO4SERAJYWF/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836197000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3iir3La3pEEIpw72NKMUOw\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","W0E_8yikBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","0RJ8rJKnBQAJ",[["Paul Moore","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXfV5M5ejrD1LCaQTmrTvnInt1zckqtkJi6twIJRUgEVqPQXZQ",null,"106804344141986234972"],[["Greg Ewing","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWu5uCH8B-Hwr2IUW50YjRD5AFKyAeVh7wIdXV41b_hw0znDQ",null,"109166039066360441871"]],[["Python Dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 07:16, Greg Ewing \u0026lt;greg....@canterbury.ac.nz\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt; On 4/10/",[1633331959,982000000],[1633331559],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 at 07:16, Greg Ewing \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egreg....@canterbury.ac.nz\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 4/10/21 6:23 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; *E` as a SyntaxError.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; You can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; I don\u0026#39;t think it would be desirable in any case. The separation of\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; tokens into alphanumeric and non-alphanumeric is deeply embedded in\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; every Python programmer\u0026#39;s brain by now, and we shouldn\u0026#39;t mess with\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; it.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Agreed. Having \u0026quot;except*\u0026quot; be a single token, distinguished from the\r\u003cbr\u003epair of tokens \u0026quot;except\u0026quot; \u0026quot;*\u0026quot; only by the presence of whitespace, would\r\u003cbr\u003ebe extremely confusing.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eAnd yes, I am aware that 3.as_integer_ratio() and 3.\r\u003cbr\u003eas_integer_ratio() are syntax errors, whereas 3 .as_integer_ratio()\r\u003cbr\u003eand 3 . as_integer_ratio() are valid. IMO, that\u0026#39;s *also* very\r\u003cbr\u003econfusing, and serves as a warning to not do that again, and not as an\r\u003cbr\u003eexample of how it\u0026#39;s OK and we can do more of that...\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003ePaul\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836198000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw32Ip4gSyMYy6gYRNkMo3KB\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IKWKS6VYWFQ4XEXJ4XFYBLPRPXATKGGL/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/IKWKS6VYWFQ4XEXJ4XFYBLPRPXATKGGL/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836198000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2K0HF4dKpJny-Qot2Axfk5\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/IKWKS6VYWFQ4XEXJ4XFYBLPRPXATKGGL/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836198000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1x_csU7UqDdKRN16ppcFME\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","0RJ8rJKnBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","8v6EvF6oBQAJ",[["Antoine Pitrou","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXKcH_MfPBpWfe991UbH_m9An3SNJNmhJSarXuQPbIhsbqRb98",null,"116445201794679410034"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 19:42:29 +0200 \u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;luk...@langa.pl\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt; -1 \u0026gt; \u0026gt;",[1633332836,616000000],[1633332305],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 19:42:29 +0200\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eluk...@langa.pl\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; -1\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; If I could read the vertical line as a pipe character, the expression would read \u0026quot;except or E as e\u0026quot;.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; But I can\u0026#39;t read it that way anyway. Instead, all I see is a lowercase EXCEPTL.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; My idea is this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group E1, T2 as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. \r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"+1. This is much more helpful to the reader than the cryptic\r\u003cbr\u003easterisk.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eRegards\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eAntoine.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836199000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3_PqRDby_V9F_T1yAwFmHB\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836199000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3wgc6g6LCbdf11kesDBa35\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836199000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw343fHNxK6se1RD6apV48mP\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","8v6EvF6oBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","yyiofcW5BQAJ",[["Damian Shaw","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVBFABA8ctbZFP11Tn-ykJp1HUaAsj9NC4QlqwWE0Ct5ES4GA",null,"109903637039570887754"],[["Python Dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","I\u0026#39;m confused, if you can\u0026#39;t do that then what is Irit asking? I thought that: \u0026gt; At the",[1633351969,340000000],[1633351710],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003eI\u0026#39;m confused, if you can\u0026#39;t do that then what is Irit asking? I thought that:\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u0026gt; At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could \r\nchange that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to \r\nsettle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc. \u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eMeant exactly that was the question being asked.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eDamian (he/him)\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 1:30 AM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eTherefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eYou can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser. \u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e--Guido van Rossum (\u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/~guido\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/~guido\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836201000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0vrCKvlHIB9yLX-N-Q2FX-\"\u003epython.org/~guido\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ci style\u003d\"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003ePronouns\u003c/span\u003e: he/him \u003c/i\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836201000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw29TsSyLYF9O2dDy3STuyXJ\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e(why is my\u00a0\u003cspan\u003epronoun\u003c/span\u003e\u00a0here?)\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836201000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3k5VD4AgYV24aF96c5Erfa\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/F2JUI7SWTQE6RJ4YYKQHJ233BERZHYWR/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/F2JUI7SWTQE6RJ4YYKQHJ233BERZHYWR/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836201000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1T08_hz8EpEgKbW00mhiq3\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/F2JUI7SWTQE6RJ4YYKQHJ233BERZHYWR/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836201000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2HqE35aAIvkaJVMMPOk9n9\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","yyiofcW5BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","_qyIYJO6BQAJ",[["Calvin Spealman",null,null,"110994224231753795526"],[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"]],[["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 11:48 AM Irit Katriel via Python-Dev \u0026lt;pytho...@python.org\u0026gt; wrote: We",[1633352852,667000000],[1633352426],2],[2,[[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 11:48 AM Irit Katriel via Python-Dev \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWe wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e1. except *E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except *(E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e2. except* E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except* (E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e(The difference is in the whitespace around the *).\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eAt the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003eIt is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested.\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eIt is difficult to understand why any special syntax is needed at all. ExceptionGroup is still an exception class like any other, isn\u0026#39;t it? Why wouldn\u0026#39;t the existing syntax suffice?\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked 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style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003eCALVIN SPEALMAN\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003eSENIOR QUALITY ENGINEER\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"margin:0px;padding:0px\"\u003e\u003ca href data-email-masked 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height\u003d\"22\"\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://redhat.com/trusted\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(204,0,0);font-weight:bold\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://redhat.com/trusted\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836204000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1EOR0WnLTCgBT2VGDoWJ5b\"\u003eTRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","_qyIYJO6BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","G9fBS7K9BQAJ",[["Ammar Askar","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXw4CLFU8etUJryU1v3MPmZ7yoZNP_tX1AN-fqCxsPoXwmYPg",null,"105705177263704517996"],[["Antoine Pitrou","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXKcH_MfPBpWfe991UbH_m9An3SNJNmhJSarXuQPbIhsbqRb98",null,"116445201794679410034"]],[["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","Throwing in another +1 for `except group`. It\u0026#39;s explicit, doesn\u0026#39;t introduce new punctuation",[1633356284,939000000],[1633355877],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThrowing in another +1 for `except group`.\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003eIt\u0026#39;s explicit, doesn\u0026#39;t introduce new punctuation and avoids confusion with unpacking.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003eRegards,\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003eAmmar\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021, 3:31 AM Antoine Pitrou \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eant...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003eOn Sun, 3 Oct 2021 19:42:29 +0200\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;\u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003eluk...@langa.pl\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; -1\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; If I could read the vertical line as a pipe character, the expression would read \u0026quot;except or E as e\u0026quot;.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; But I can\u0026#39;t read it that way anyway. Instead, all I see is a lowercase EXCEPTL.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; My idea is this:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; try:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt;\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0...\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; except group E as e:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt;\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0...\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; except group E1, T2 as e:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt;\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0...\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`. \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n+1.\u00a0 This is much more helpful to the reader than the cryptic\u003cbr\u003e\r\nasterisk.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nRegards\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nAntoine.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836206000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3UIf3JLbBWBFhEm7s6PcnV\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836206000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw08JlDlmjF8qSpL26cBmQSN\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836206000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2Xq847fs5cNoMx4vN2Id9s\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","G9fBS7K9BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","12Izh3e_BQAJ",[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"],[["Calvin Spealman",null,null,"110994224231753795526"]],[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"],["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 4 Oct 2021, at 15:00, Calvin Spealman \u0026lt;cspe...@redhat.com\u0026gt; wrote: It is difficult to",[1633358231,479000000],[1633357823],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eOn 4 Oct 2021, at 15:00, Calvin Spealman \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ecspe...@redhat.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eIt is difficult to understand why any special syntax is needed at all. ExceptionGroup is still an exception class like any other, isn\u0026#39;t it? Why wouldn\u0026#39;t the existing syntax suffice?\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThis is covered at length in the PEP. Those sections specifically address this:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/#extend-except-to-handle-exception-groups\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/%23extend-except-to-handle-exception-groups\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836207000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2mVAqtQbdYWWCCZ6o31O8m\"\u003ehttps://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/#extend-except-to-handle-exception-groups\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/#programming-without-except\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/%23programming-without-except\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836207000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1dnJ5bWr5L6VBPC5b3ghfE\"\u003ehttps://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0654/#programming-without-except\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e- \u0141\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/5bf77873362d7/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","12Izh3e_BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","KToM05y_BQAJ",[["Victor Stinner","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWRz_sMucp0SDCi6M3HI6fN_IMfj7f2uvuh1thtx6IVtEFL4A",null,"114253887290810525115"],[["Irit Katriel","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVMpr7jwd4Q_m2UbQAYKc5povLdB1xqCI2lirAjbvI-fma7Dw",null,"105741784138515307433"]],[["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","To stay consistent with PEP 8, exception groups should use 4 spaces. Victor On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 5:",[1633358392,25000000],[1633357976],2],[2,[[1,[null,"To stay consistent with PEP 8, exception groups should use 4 spaces.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eVictor\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 5:54 PM Irit Katriel via Python-Dev\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; We wonder if people have a view on which of the following is clearer/better:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; (The difference is in the whitespace around the *).\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a token), and in any case we need to settle on a convention that we use in documentation, etc.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; It is also not too late to opt for a completely different syntax if a better one is suggested.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u0026gt; _______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Python-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; To unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836207000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1UDQAbCMIwKLULSsE7yTJR\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4B256YKUPW5P2M44GG5H6FBL3PSV6ODP/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4B256YKUPW5P2M44GG5H6FBL3PSV6ODP/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836207000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3vtABOrJ70m9J-ZBKMYwUv\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/4B256YKUPW5P2M44GG5H6FBL3PSV6ODP/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u0026gt; Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836207000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1EHvdKaN5DOA8u1SuddJod\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"-- \r\u003cbr\u003eNight gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836207000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1UDQAbCMIwKLULSsE7yTJR\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/A2REM55FHTETDZUPRVDWTVSXC273GHZW/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/A2REM55FHTETDZUPRVDWTVSXC273GHZW/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836208000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw345puL2bAqUMwtkUVzj_EL\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/A2REM55FHTETDZUPRVDWTVSXC273GHZW/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836208000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3Q2mXkA3_A03v31FUGaj4v\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","KToM05y_BQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","ZZwkCe_ABQAJ",[["Mark Shannon","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVvVoXVz5wH7oZ7Q7gg1TUi_Tzls8hNmoRzBGh_8VznGKq6og",null,"111243166048507425766"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","Another +1 for `except group` from me. On 04/10/2021 2:57 pm, Ammar Askar wrote: \u0026gt; Throwing in",[1633359844,523000000],[1633359601],2],[2,[[1,[null,"Another +1 for `except group` from me.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003eOn 04/10/2021 2:57 pm, Ammar Askar wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Throwing in another +1 for `except group`.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; It\u0026#39;s explicit, doesn\u0026#39;t introduce new punctuation and avoids confusion \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; with unpacking.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Regards,\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Ammar\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Mon, Oct 4, 2021, 3:31 AM Antoine Pitrou \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eant...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eant...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Sun, 3 Oct 2021 19:42:29 +0200\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eluk...@langa.pl\u003c/a\u003e \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eluk...@langa.pl\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; -1\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; If I could read the vertical line as a pipe character, the\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; expression would read \u0026quot;except or E as e\u0026quot;.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; But I can\u0026#39;t read it that way anyway. Instead, all I see is a\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; lowercase EXCEPTL.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; My idea is this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; except group E as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; except group E1, T2 as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; Should be doable given the magical match-case contextual keywords\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; precedent. This looks nice and is explicit, since you will always\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; get an ExceptionGroup instance under `e`.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; +1.\u00a0 This is much more helpful to the reader than the cryptic\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; asterisk.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Regards\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Antoine.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; _______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Python-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u0026gt; To unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; 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Message archived at\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw11M7CeUUAiO-0yg9p0b-9C\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026lt;\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw11M7CeUUAiO-0yg9p0b-9C\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/INK6TSOGGODA4NZ3CI5MOXIAI4Z4CZ53/\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2IBROY-i_BnHKIqhdy9bsp\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; \u0026lt;\u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2IBROY-i_BnHKIqhdy9bsp\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; _______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Python-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; To unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0SPFa4knpMieER_D1SEmpF\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4ZUBUDQ4CGXYJAIYKMJMJBGUGGTODECF/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/4ZUBUDQ4CGXYJAIYKMJMJBGUGGTODECF/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw18YNXI7GFId8DRy5WxUQ3n\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/4ZUBUDQ4CGXYJAIYKMJMJBGUGGTODECF/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u0026gt; Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2IBROY-i_BnHKIqhdy9bsp\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0SPFa4knpMieER_D1SEmpF\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/OFSIDJNKCXPXRJJNFDUG3JKNLPJUQGLD/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/OFSIDJNKCXPXRJJNFDUG3JKNLPJUQGLD/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2-Tc0Ui4r7FIZf7HVfFerh\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/OFSIDJNKCXPXRJJNFDUG3JKNLPJUQGLD/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836209000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2IBROY-i_BnHKIqhdy9bsp\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","ZZwkCe_ABQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","XCdDJ3jBBQAJ",[["Jonathan Goble","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUTqC6CXqW6dbRtAAb4RblTt2XZwPzZENJX3x7lavCtRtY2Xsx1",null,"111811712035391477004"],[["Guido van Rossum","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"]],[["Python Dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 1:24 AM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;gu...@python.org\u0026gt; wrote: On Sun, Oct 3, 2021",[1633360433,324000000],[1633359761],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 1:24 AM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eTherefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eYou can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser. \u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThen what is the purpose of this thread? I understood from the OP that the question was which to allow and which to prohibit. If it\u0026#39;s impossible to require either or prohibit either because the lexer/parser can\u0026#39;t tell the difference, then it\u0026#39;s going to end up as a never-ending style argument just like C pointers, so what are we even discussing? (Other than an entirely different syntax, of course, which now seems like the logical way to go if we can\u0026#39;t enforce a single way to do it with the original proposal.)\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","XCdDJ3jBBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","8uP8ZKPDBQAJ",[["MRAB"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 2021-10-04 07:12, Greg Ewing wrote: \u0026gt; On 4/10/21 6:23 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote: \u0026gt;\u0026gt; On",[1633362818,247000000],[1633362571],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On 2021-10-04 07:12, Greg Ewing wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 4/10/21 6:23 pm, Guido van Rossum wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; *E` as a SyntaxError.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; You can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; I don\u0026#39;t think it would be desirable in any case. The separation of\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; tokens into alphanumeric and non-alphanumeric is deeply embedded in\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; every Python programmer\u0026#39;s brain by now, and we shouldn\u0026#39;t mess with\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; it.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"It\u0026#39;s not just a Python thing.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836211000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3ChnxYAVhjWMknMfbTG1Ep\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/NTAXBGISW5CGLR2CWQ7HN4CCMDNF6OPG/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/NTAXBGISW5CGLR2CWQ7HN4CCMDNF6OPG/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836211000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0KVdr4G-vndnKPyMPCLjO5\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/NTAXBGISW5CGLR2CWQ7HN4CCMDNF6OPG/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836211000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2cWsIKqWfmPuZ5ghR9ek-c\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","8uP8ZKPDBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","tP1gfJLEBQAJ",[["Guido van Rossum","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"],[["Jonathan Goble","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUTqC6CXqW6dbRtAAb4RblTt2XZwPzZENJX3x7lavCtRtY2Xsx1",null,"111811712035391477004"]],[["Python Dev"]],[["gu...@python.org","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8). On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:03 AM",[1633363845,80000000],[1633363434],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\nThe question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8).\r\n\r\n\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:03 AM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 1:24 AM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eTherefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eYou can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser. \u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThen what is the purpose of this thread? I understood from the OP that the question was which to allow and which to prohibit. If it\u0026#39;s impossible to require either or prohibit either because the lexer/parser can\u0026#39;t tell the difference, then it\u0026#39;s going to end up as a never-ending style argument just like C pointers, so what are we even discussing? (Other than an entirely different syntax, of course, which now seems like the logical way to go if we can\u0026#39;t enforce a single way to do it with the original proposal.)\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr clear\u003d\"all\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e--Guido van Rossum (\u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/~guido\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/~guido\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836213000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1ZkR5Oo1ksMnPHchPT0pnb\"\u003epython.org/~guido\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ci style\u003d\"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003ePronouns\u003c/span\u003e: he/him \u003c/i\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836213000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0A8SDnlNnBqxLBvBE4sGco\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e(why is my\u00a0\u003cspan\u003epronoun\u003c/span\u003e\u00a0here?)\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","tP1gfJLEBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","EYocXzjFBQAJ",[["MRAB"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 2021-10-04 16:02, Jonathan Goble wrote: \u0026gt; On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 1:24 AM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;",[1633364557,602000000],[1633364347],2],[2,[[3,[null,"On 2021-10-04 16:02, Jonathan Goble wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 1:24 AM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Therefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; `except *E` as a SyntaxError.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; You can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Then what is the purpose of this thread? I understood from the OP that \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; the question was which to allow and which to prohibit. If it\u0026#39;s \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; impossible to require either or prohibit either because the lexer/parser \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; can\u0026#39;t tell the difference, then it\u0026#39;s going to end up as a never-ending \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; style argument just like C pointers, so what are we even discussing? \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; (Other than an entirely different syntax, of course, which now seems \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; like the logical way to go if we can\u0026#39;t enforce a single way to do it \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; with the original proposal.)\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; The key phrase is \u0026quot;\u0026quot;\u0026quot;in any case we need to settle on a convention that \r\u003cbr\u003ewe use in documentation, etc.\u0026quot;\u0026quot;\u0026quot;.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836214000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2tQ5NdRvDIzKFjhoM9uRsV\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RYJTNZVMNF54XVUIE4MMN6TXS2XRPTXO/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RYJTNZVMNF54XVUIE4MMN6TXS2XRPTXO/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836214000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3rTwDdND2ZG9hO8C8D-soq\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/RYJTNZVMNF54XVUIE4MMN6TXS2XRPTXO/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836214000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0192FnuhicG2n9-BTxe-DA\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","EYocXzjFBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","kVNUgmfFBQAJ",[["Calvin Spealman",null,null,"110994224231753795526"],[["gu...@python.org","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"]],[["Jonathan Goble","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUTqC6CXqW6dbRtAAb4RblTt2XZwPzZENJX3x7lavCtRtY2Xsx1",null,"111811712035391477004"],["Python Dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;gu...@python.org\u0026gt; wrote: The question was",[1633364759,976000000],[1633364315],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\nThe question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8).\r\n\r\n\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eI think the very fact that it can\u0026#39;t (or is difficult) be enforced, and so in the wild we\u0026#39;ll likely see variations that could lead to confusion, is enough reason to find an alternative syntax.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:03 AM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 1:24 AM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eTherefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eYou can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser. \u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThen what is the purpose of this thread? I understood from the OP that the question was which to allow and which to prohibit. If it\u0026#39;s impossible to require either or prohibit either because the lexer/parser can\u0026#39;t tell the difference, then it\u0026#39;s going to end up as a never-ending style argument just like C pointers, so what are we even discussing? (Other than an entirely different syntax, of course, which now seems like the logical way to go if we can\u0026#39;t enforce a single way to do it with the original proposal.)\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr clear\u003d\"all\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e--Guido van Rossum (\u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/~guido\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/~guido\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836216000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1lC5PlS-XnlnQ--D7sm2iR\"\u003epython.org/~guido\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ci style\u003d\"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003ePronouns\u003c/span\u003e: he/him \u003c/i\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" 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nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836216000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw12IOihUjkwjnmadB63sZoF\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003eCALVIN SPEALMAN\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003eSENIOR QUALITY ENGINEER\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"margin:0px;padding:0px\"\u003e\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ecalvin....@redhat.com\u003c/a\u003e\u00a0\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan\u003eM: \u003ca href\u003d\"tel:+1.336.210.5107\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003e+1.336.210.5107\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://red.ht/sig\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://red.ht/sig\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836216000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1I9MIIKe54EpaFD8hDwoM_\"\u003e\u003cimg src\u003d\"https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yZXsde3pBxOmM28xtjdqAiSG2gvsoMRSrVcqojiWX_5CaKz4jRUmYM0zxicwav1ce_OjPqiKcOqLycjAZ43Zq4FUG7uutNbVRgZH1yWzzeW-nej7aBakgFDQ\u003ds0-d-e1-ft#https://static.redhat.com/libs/redhat/brand-assets/latest/corp/logo.png\" alt\u003d\"https://red.ht/sig\" width\u003d\"96\" height\u003d\"22\"\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://redhat.com/trusted\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(204,0,0);font-weight:bold\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://redhat.com/trusted\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836216000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0lgJEmlCAsl1YnRcCshPka\"\u003eTRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","kVNUgmfFBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","cZvffI3GBQAJ",[["Steven D'Aprano"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 09:03:54AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: \u0026gt; The question was about which",[1633366022,595000000],[1633365922],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 09:03:54AM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Quote:\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026quot;At the moment * is a separate token so both are allowed, but we could\r\u003cbr\u003echange that (e.g., make except* a token)\u0026quot;\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"If that is mistaken, that\u0026#39;s fine, no harm done, but those of us who \r\u003cbr\u003ethought that enforcing one or the other form was on the table didn\u0026#39;t \r\u003cbr\u003eimagine it :-)\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-- \r\u003cbr\u003eSteve\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836218000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3_BFdeJq_fGdLcD8PZJuSf\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/CODOHGNW7F2AKMVPGLZZCMWLVKOINBIM/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/CODOHGNW7F2AKMVPGLZZCMWLVKOINBIM/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836218000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3jc4qBa4yIslOfwpiXtJ3B\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/CODOHGNW7F2AKMVPGLZZCMWLVKOINBIM/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836218000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw23l18rGre_2A1Op53vU3Ut\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","cZvffI3GBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","hVmWWdLGBQAJ",[["Antoine Pitrou","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXKcH_MfPBpWfe991UbH_m9An3SNJNmhJSarXuQPbIhsbqRb98",null,"116445201794679410034"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:18:35 -0400 Calvin Spealman \u0026lt;cspe...@redhat.com\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; On Mon, Oct",[1633366318,479000000],[1633366056],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:18:35 -0400\r\u003cbr\u003eCalvin Spealman \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ecspe...@redhat.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8).\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; I think the very fact that it can\u0026#39;t (or is difficult) be enforced,\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"How so? If style checkers are already able to check whitespace around\r\u003cbr\u003eoperators, they should be to check whitespace in this instance as well.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eDo you suggest that PEP 8 violations should be detected by the Python\r\u003cbr\u003eparser itself?\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836219000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0-PSUSJMZsj2EN_QVQ2GFC\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836219000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0T_-nsEgydfeYtBimFl4Sn\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836219000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1NjhqIkTCwqTcDWn9WaNhG\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","hVmWWdLGBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","pDADDZnIBQAJ",[["Glenn Linderman","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWM92Eni8KdVHhoSI7NFbAZpd-ArpSTyl7sOv01K_QCRzv7cw",null,"111624257829322240405"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 10/3/2021 10:23 PM, Guido van Rossum wrote: On Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20 PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;",[1633368271,207000000],[1633367711],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 10/3/2021 10:23 PM, Guido van Rossum\r\n wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, Oct 3, 2021 at 9:20\r\n PM Jonathan Goble \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ejcgo...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\r\n wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eTherefore my vote is for requiring `except* E` and\r\n keeping `except *E` as a SyntaxError.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eYou can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n Seems like a good reason to promote\u00a0\u00a0 \u0026quot;except group E\u0026quot;\u00a0 instead of\r\n \u0026quot;except * E\u0026quot;, as others have suggested.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","pDADDZnIBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","Jd5WOoLJBQAJ",[["Calvin Spealman",null,null,"110994224231753795526"],[["Antoine Pitrou","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXKcH_MfPBpWfe991UbH_m9An3SNJNmhJSarXuQPbIhsbqRb98",null,"116445201794679410034"]],[["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:48 PM Antoine Pitrou \u0026lt;ant...@python.org\u0026gt; wrote: On Mon, 4 Oct 2021",[1633369272,733000000],[1633368854],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:48 PM Antoine Pitrou \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eant...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003eOn Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:18:35 -0400\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCalvin Spealman \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ecspe...@redhat.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u0026gt; The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8).\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\u00a0 \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; I think the very fact that it can\u0026#39;t (or is difficult) be enforced,\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nHow so?\u00a0 If style checkers are already able to check whitespace around\u003cbr\u003e\r\noperators, they should be to check whitespace in this instance as well.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nDo you suggest that PEP 8 violations should be detected by the Python\u003cbr\u003e\r\nparser itself?\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1) I was basing the \u0026quot;can\u0026#39;t enforce\u0026quot; on Guido\u0026#39;s \u0026quot;\r\nYou can\u0026#39;t do that with our current lexer+parser.\u0026quot;\u003cbr\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e2) Of course PEP 8 violations shouldn\u0026#39;t be checked by the parser. That\u0026#39;s why they\u0026#39;re PEP 8 and not syntax rules.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eHowever, this doesn\u0026#39;t look like style. This syntax is modifying either the `except` keyword for the exception type\u003cbr\u003eassociated with it.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWhich does it modify? That the asterisk can be on either side of the whitespace feels very odd, in general but\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eespecially for Python syntax. That\u0026#39;s why I\u0026#39;d opt for a variation that is either unambiguously attached to the left or right,\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eor which is not connected to either, like the very clear `except group E` proposal.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836222000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3vrVXjAEKK5c4KV7GTnH-N\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836222000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2Hr4ibycVTrAK6FNn-By0B\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/ZLU5NYXVRCUM7AEEN55ITUQO43VDY6RE/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836222000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3A5rqdGvNDGVQkRb0ExDO4\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003eCALVIN SPEALMAN\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003eSENIOR QUALITY ENGINEER\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"margin:0px;padding:0px\"\u003e\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ecalvin....@redhat.com\u003c/a\u003e\u00a0\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan\u003eM: \u003ca href\u003d\"tel:+1.336.210.5107\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003e+1.336.210.5107\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://red.ht/sig\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://red.ht/sig\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836222000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1VMY86kdW9qyU2cJg8F1Zo\"\u003e\u003cimg src\u003d\"https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yZXsde3pBxOmM28xtjdqAiSG2gvsoMRSrVcqojiWX_5CaKz4jRUmYM0zxicwav1ce_OjPqiKcOqLycjAZ43Zq4FUG7uutNbVRgZH1yWzzeW-nej7aBakgFDQ\u003ds0-d-e1-ft#https://static.redhat.com/libs/redhat/brand-assets/latest/corp/logo.png\" alt\u003d\"https://red.ht/sig\" width\u003d\"96\" height\u003d\"22\"\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://redhat.com/trusted\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(204,0,0);font-weight:bold\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://redhat.com/trusted\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836222000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2xhL6QWa6PmUt5cXVVLs8G\"\u003eTRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","Jd5WOoLJBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","VG9waZbMBQAJ",[["Steve Dower"],[["Antoine Pitrou","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXKcH_MfPBpWfe991UbH_m9An3SNJNmhJSarXuQPbIhsbqRb98",null,"116445201794679410034"],["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 10/4/2021 5:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote: \u0026gt; On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:18:35 -0400 \u0026gt; Calvin",[1633372657,977000000],[1633372270],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003eOn 10/4/2021 5:47 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 12:18:35 -0400\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Calvin Spealman \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ecspe...@redhat.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:07 PM Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; The question was about which style to *recommend* (a la PEP-8).\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; I think the very fact that it can\u0026#39;t (or is difficult) be enforced,\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; How so? If style checkers are already able to check whitespace around\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; operators, they should be to check whitespace in this instance as well.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Do you suggest that PEP 8 violations should be detected by the Python\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; parser itself?\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"No, but if it isn\u0026#39;t decided by *us*, it\u0026#39;ll be decided by whoever \r\u003cbr\u003econtributes it to Black first.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo me, the \u0026quot;*name\u0026quot; looks most similar to how we write \u0026quot;*args\u0026quot; in a \r\u003cbr\u003efunction definition, so I\u0026#39;d go for that.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eWe don\u0026#39;t currently modify[1] keywords with punctuation, and that\u0026#39;s what \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026quot;except*\u0026quot; looks like, and \u0026quot;except * E\u0026quot; looks like a binary operator \r\u003cbr\u003eand/or grit on the screen.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eCheers,\r\u003cbr\u003eSteve\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e[1]: Meaning to \u0026quot;give it a different meaning in particular context\u0026quot;, not \r\u003cbr\u003e_literally_ modify in any permanent sense.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836223000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1Qqo-RWcM8z7mB7ICCXeTS\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/52KJZMKMFTFHVMS3NXABNFQJRZNLKLX5/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/52KJZMKMFTFHVMS3NXABNFQJRZNLKLX5/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836223000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3bQ8ziM2DIhvFjiUx99cDl\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/52KJZMKMFTFHVMS3NXABNFQJRZNLKLX5/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836223000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw074-0vRybBXSPuc7W0xzYD\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","VG9waZbMBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","xgfiNkDQBQAJ",[["Rob Cliffe via Python-Dev"],[["pytho...@python.org"]],null,[["Rob Cliffe"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 04/10/2021 00:57, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Oct 3, 2021, at 10:42, \u0141ukasz Langa \u0026lt;luk...@langa.pl",[1633376685,970000000],[1633376428],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 04/10/2021 00:57, Barry Warsaw\r\n wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cpre\u003eOn Oct 3, 2021, at 10:42, \u0141ukasz Langa \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003e\u0026lt;luk...@langa.pl\u0026gt;\u003c/a\u003e wrote:\r\n\u003c/pre\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cpre\u003e\r\n\r\nSpeaking just for myself, the `except *` syntax always bothered me, but I couldn\u2019t come up with anything better and it wasn\u2019t enough for me to vote against PEP 654. `except group` is nicer though, and I would be in favor of that, or something like it.\u003c/pre\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n Or perhaps `except for` ?\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cpre\u003e\r\n\r\nWe could of course bike shed on the syntax forever. The PSC did vote to accept the PEP but we left room for changes while during the 3.11 cycle.\r\n\r\n-Barry\r\n\r\n\u003c/pre\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cfieldset\u003e\u003c/fieldset\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cpre\u003e_______________________________________________\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836224000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2PCoX032Fp54gpQliCkOgX\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/pre\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cpre\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/7KHAN76UA5JRND2M2EMVLKML665KQDTC/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/7KHAN76UA5JRND2M2EMVLKML665KQDTC/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836224000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0D28z0XHpIlsYJCpb7KkQZ\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/7KHAN76UA5JRND2M2EMVLKML665KQDTC/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/pre\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cpre\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836224000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1FNgcsmOyi5pDI-vVstXaT\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\n\u003c/pre\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","xgfiNkDQBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","fJk9TpjbBQAJ",[["Terry Reedy","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUDpUiVOep9pGOio50lK4616nwDiH8GM7tWSXRB0YDsNipuGQ",null,"113482058928510134785"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 10/4/2021 9:57 AM, Ammar Askar wrote: \u0026gt; Throwing in another +1 for `except group`. \u0026gt; \u0026gt;",[1633389158,914000000],[1633388900],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On 10/4/2021 9:57 AM, Ammar Askar wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Throwing in another +1 for `except group`.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; It\u0026#39;s explicit, doesn\u0026#39;t introduce new punctuation and avoids confusion \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; with unpacking.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"I agree for same reasons. And avoids more bikeshedding.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eI checked and if \u0026#39;except group\u0026#39; is added to keyword.kwlist *before* \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026#39;except\u0026#39;, the pair is recognized as a keyword phrase by IDLE\u0026#39;s syntax \r\u003cbr\u003ehighlighter without any change. (\u0026#39;except\\s*group\u0026#39; would take care of \r\u003cbr\u003evariable spacing)\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-- \r\u003cbr\u003eTerry Jan Reedy\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836225000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw23rhGGvN3Iw8SziGmiTmmH\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EYS6Q53UN2KDBH2VM4KA7DVRL76KJYVX/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/EYS6Q53UN2KDBH2VM4KA7DVRL76KJYVX/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836225000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2KwRB1wtUPR1VKa1HVyYsx\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/EYS6Q53UN2KDBH2VM4KA7DVRL76KJYVX/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836225000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2LjiYccc6XOHvUxv_PdB-g\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","fJk9TpjbBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","sF7vxOTeBQAJ",[["Steven D'Aprano"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 07:31:10PM +0100, Steve Dower wrote: \u0026gt; To me, the \u0026quot;*name\u0026quot; looks",[1633392785,840000000],[1633392686],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 07:31:10PM +0100, Steve Dower wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; To me, the \u0026quot;*name\u0026quot; looks most similar to how we write \u0026quot;*args\u0026quot; in a \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; function definition, so I\u0026#39;d go for that.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"That\u0026#39;s exactly why we *shouldn\u0026#39;t* go for that option. That is going to \r\u003cbr\u003econfuse a lot of people that it is sequence unpacking.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eSee for example Jonathon Goble\u0026#39;s experience here:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/2TBZZSMZXNYFJNPLIESFNFDNDX5K6A5X/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/2TBZZSMZXNYFJNPLIESFNFDNDX5K6A5X/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836226000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3tngh385QPmjmZH1zomnh5\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/2TBZZSMZXNYFJNPLIESFNFDNDX5K6A5X/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; We don\u0026#39;t currently modify[1] keywords with punctuation, \r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Star imports are a possible exception. But there we have no way of \r\u003cbr\u003econfusing the meaning.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; and that\u0026#39;s what \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026quot;except*\u0026quot; looks like, and \u0026quot;except * E\u0026quot; looks like a binary operator \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; and/or grit on the screen.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"When I saw the `except*` syntax first suggested, I was a little \r\u003cbr\u003esurprised because it did seem rather unusual for Python. But I grew up \r\u003cbr\u003ewith FORTH where function names contain punctuation all the time, so I \r\u003cbr\u003edidn\u0026#39;t think too much of it. I expected that the keyword literally would \r\u003cbr\u003ebe `except*` and nothing but `except*`.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eIf I had realised that the star would be free to wander around and that \r\u003cbr\u003ethe syntax actually was r\u0026quot;except[ \\t]*\\*[ \\t]*\u0026quot;, I would have said \r\u003cbr\u003esomething much earlier :-(\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-- \r\u003cbr\u003eSteve\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836226000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1JndurRC86x_smgyBNjaUT\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GZOOLRO7RYWNKA3QWGNGXGXVV3KNNR4Q/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GZOOLRO7RYWNKA3QWGNGXGXVV3KNNR4Q/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836226000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3teE73gw5nNL7xDCN2j3zc\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/GZOOLRO7RYWNKA3QWGNGXGXVV3KNNR4Q/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836226000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw238v2_WVZv40bZfaSptBWH\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","sF7vxOTeBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","OqveXKMOBgAJ",[["Patrick Reader","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVJXwAd624ninFYEn4S-cTPPDocxRBm_R23biVz2Bws3Ll_ww",null,"113900901510648972144"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote: 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:",[1633445281,568000000],[1633276775],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e1. except *E as\r\n e: \u00a0// \u00a0except *(E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e2. except* E as e:\r\n \u00a0// \u00a0except* (E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cp\u003eI vote #2, because `except *(e1, e2) as e:` could imply that this\r\n is splatting an arbitrary expression there - it looks like it will\r\n match any number of dynamically chosen exception types.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","OqveXKMOBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","yUAdCMIOBgAJ",[["Patrick Reader","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVJXwAd624ninFYEn4S-cTPPDocxRBm_R23biVz2Bws3Ll_ww",null,"113900901510648972144"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 03/10/2021 16:54, Thomas Grainger wrote: What about `except case ExceptionGroup[E1 | E2]:`? and",[1633445413,278000000],[1633277126],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 03/10/2021 16:54, Thomas Grainger\r\n wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"auto\"\u003eWhat about `except case ExceptionGroup[E1 | E2]:`?\r\n and use match semantics?\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Sun, 3 Oct 2021, 16:50 Irit\r\n Katriel via Python-Dev, \u0026lt;\u003ca href rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" data-email-masked\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\r\n wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eWe wonder if people have a view on which of the\r\n following is clearer/better:\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e1. except\r\n *E as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except *(E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e2. except* E\r\n as e: \u00a0// \u00a0except* (E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e(The difference is in the whitespace around the *).\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eAt the moment * is a separate token so both are\r\n allowed, but we could change that (e.g., make except* a\r\n token), and in any case we need to settle on a\r\n convention that we use in documentation, etc.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n It is also not too late to opt for a completely different\r\n syntax if a better one is suggested. \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eI don\u0026#39;t think X[Y | Z] is close to any syntax match currently\r\n allows.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eBut... I have long thought that the interpreter\u0026#39;s exception\r\n matching abilities were underused by the language. Maybe this is\r\n an opportunity for something else interesting, in general?\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eThe problem being, besides the general extra complexity, that the\r\n match statement\u0026#39;s variable capture semantics are different to the\r\n `as name` syntax already used by the except statement.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","yUAdCMIOBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","Gzx8UM0OBgAJ",[["Patrick Reader","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVJXwAd624ninFYEn4S-cTPPDocxRBm_R23biVz2Bws3Ll_ww",null,"113900901510648972144"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 03/10/2021 16:59, Patrick Reader wrote: On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote: 1.",[1633445461,720000000],[1633276804],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 03/10/2021 16:59, Patrick Reader\r\n wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \r\n On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e1. except *E as\r\n e: \u00a0// \u00a0except *(E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e2. except* E as e:\r\n \u00a0// \u00a0except* (E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cp\u003eI vote #2, because `except *(e1, e2) as e:` could imply that\r\n this is splatting an arbitrary expression there - it looks like\r\n it will match any number of dynamically chosen exception types.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n (that could be a useful feature actually (so maybe the * syntax\r\n should be reserved??), but that\u0026#39;s another discussion)\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","Gzx8UM0OBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","9-d_CaIQBgAJ",[["Calvin Spealman",null,null,"110994224231753795526"],[["Patrick Reader","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVJXwAd624ninFYEn4S-cTPPDocxRBm_R23biVz2Bws3Ll_ww",null,"113900901510648972144"]],[["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 10:51 AM Patrick Reader \u0026lt;_...@pxeger.com\u0026gt; wrote: On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit",[1633447474,805000000],[1633447045],2],[2,[[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 10:51 AM Patrick Reader \u0026lt;_@\u003ca href\u003d\"http://pxeger.com\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://pxeger.com\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836231000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1e8D2HRmaZRRE1G8QPnIFp\"\u003epxeger.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv style\u003d\"color:rgb(80,0,80)\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e1. except *E as\r\n e: \u00a0// \u00a0except *(E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(34,34,34)\"\u003e2. except* E as e:\r\n \u00a0// \u00a0except* (E1, E2) as e:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eI vote #2, because `except *(e1, e2) as e:` could imply that this\r\n is splatting an arbitrary expression there - it looks like it will\r\n match any number of dynamically chosen exception types.\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eBut it only looks like splatting because you changed it from `(E1, E2)` to `(e1, e2)` where Title Case names will look like a matched type and lower case names will look like destination names. So, given these will be class names and 99.9% Title Case, Option 1 does not really fail under your suggested confusion here.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836231000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0PjNLMcAtdVI-A9iVGFLoT\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RGIAE2HMYQLPXWH5O5TNBNRXDQQ4UKAK/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RGIAE2HMYQLPXWH5O5TNBNRXDQQ4UKAK/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836231000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0q7bAYxvPwvLN87IHhcgrl\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/RGIAE2HMYQLPXWH5O5TNBNRXDQQ4UKAK/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836231000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1OpzhptW9HGmpRsrLXx1Jq\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003eCALVIN SPEALMAN\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003eSENIOR QUALITY ENGINEER\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"margin:0px;padding:0px\"\u003e\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ecalvin....@redhat.com\u003c/a\u003e\u00a0\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan\u003eM: \u003ca href\u003d\"tel:+1.336.210.5107\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003e+1.336.210.5107\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://red.ht/sig\" target\u003d\"_blank\" 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data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://redhat.com/trusted\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836231000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1HybxcV_KJzztfT2FxHyw1\"\u003eTRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","9-d_CaIQBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","4n8QilciBgAJ",[["sascha.schlemmer--- via Python-Dev"],[["pytho...@python.org"]],null,[["sascha.s...@me.com"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","I agree that *(E1, E2) looks like unpacking, how about except *E1 as error: ... except (*E1, *E2) as",[1633466946,51000000],[1633457756],2],[2,[[1,[null,"I agree that *(E1, E2) looks like unpacking, how about \r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept *E1 as error: ... \r\u003cbr\u003eexcept (*E1, *E2) as error: ... \r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eeven better would be if we could drop the braces:\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept *E1, *E2 as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836231000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0PjNLMcAtdVI-A9iVGFLoT\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836231000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3K2Y5n8aFK2LTQJzKKbLXN\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836231000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1OpzhptW9HGmpRsrLXx1Jq\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","4n8QilciBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","XM9hmH0kBgAJ",[["Greg Ewing","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWu5uCH8B-Hwr2IUW50YjRD5AFKyAeVh7wIdXV41b_hw0znDQ",null,"109166039066360441871"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 6/10/21 7:15 am, sascha.schlemmer--- via Python-Dev wrote: \u0026gt; except (*E1, *E2) as error: ...",[1633469308,587000000],[1633469217],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On 6/10/21 7:15 am, sascha.schlemmer--- via Python-Dev wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except (*E1, *E2) as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Then we would have to decide whether to allow\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e except (E1, *E2) as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eand if so, what it would mean.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-- \r\u003cbr\u003eGreg\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836232000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1y-UzRg7TcDtn2VFTOEzjV\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/O7V4G4DWEOXNWZB6MP4PKOXV46XKVT67/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/O7V4G4DWEOXNWZB6MP4PKOXV46XKVT67/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836232000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw09MEMqquIp77ClTm_f4Jx-\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/O7V4G4DWEOXNWZB6MP4PKOXV46XKVT67/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836232000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0KMpikUv_w9Ocj4ACuEm_8\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","XM9hmH0kBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","2fy2qzwvBgAJ",[["Steven D'Aprano"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 11:17:25AM -0400, Calvin Spealman wrote: \u0026gt; On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 10:51 AM",[1633481124,144000000],[1633480954],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Tue, Oct 05, 2021 at 11:17:25AM -0400, Calvin Spealman wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 10:51 AM Patrick Reader \u0026lt;_@\u003ca href\u003d\"http://pxeger.com\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://pxeger.com\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836233000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3tTklIywL8WYBPBuqi2OZZ\"\u003epxeger.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; On 03/10/2021 16:47, Irit Katriel via Python-Dev wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; 1. except *E as e: // except *(E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; 2. except* E as e: // except* (E1, E2) as e:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; I vote #2, because `except *(e1, e2) as e:` could imply that this is\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; splatting an arbitrary expression there - it looks like it will match any\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt; number of dynamically chosen exception types.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; But it only looks like splatting because you changed it from `(E1, E2)` to\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; `(e1, e2)` where Title Case names will look like a matched type and lower\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; case names will look like destination names. So, given these will be class\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; names and 99.9% Title Case, Option 1 does not really fail under your\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; suggested confusion here.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"It\u0026#39;s the asterisk `*`, not the case of the names, that makes it look \r\u003cbr\u003elike sequence unpacking.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eSequence unpacking works on sequences of types or other names that start \r\u003cbr\u003ewith capital letters. There is no difference between unpacking a tuple \r\u003cbr\u003eof classes with a capital letter and a tuple of classes with names that \r\u003cbr\u003estart with lower case letters:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e a, b, c \u003d *(ValueError, TypeError, Exception)\r\u003cbr\u003e a, b, c \u003d *(int, float, str)\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eShockingly, we can even use mixed case and unusual naming conventions!\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e obj, Module \u003d (None, sys)\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e*wink*\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836233000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2W8AgdFXO6ZC1A-Y4LxGpL\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DTUIIVXGKA2MEBK6K3ZUOVHTLFRJC4HB/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/DTUIIVXGKA2MEBK6K3ZUOVHTLFRJC4HB/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836233000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0VseDrfOA3P8bGu9O0Pr1j\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/DTUIIVXGKA2MEBK6K3ZUOVHTLFRJC4HB/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836233000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3UthkNfC4hjF_PkvMGR3dK\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","2fy2qzwvBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","h6ngsAIxBgAJ",[["Barry Warsaw","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWdblMxTEw2ssp_7h9xeepvLP8b-u1xc9tKQgCYLYpwXctb2A",null,"107995332406558523286"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that\u0026#39;s still the best",[1633483074,180000000],[1633482993],2],[2,[[1,[null,"What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that\u2019s still the best alternative I\u2019ve seen. It\u2019s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can\u2019t be confused with unpacking syntax.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-Barry\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Oct 5, 2021, at 11:15, sascha.schlemmer--- via Python-Dev \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; I agree that *(E1, E2) looks like unpacking, how about\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except *E1 as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except (*E1, *E2) as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; even better would be if we could drop the braces:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except *E1, *E2 as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; _______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Python-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; To unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836234000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2PqH4waKDwV2ZQFYTYKzej\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836234000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw145daeo4WeYN7avYRnLmRU\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836234000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2-k-UO8MJdU979hIfDyfp8\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/63102b0e0a987/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","h6ngsAIxBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","LvkB3jsxBgAJ",[["Barry Warsaw","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWdblMxTEw2ssp_7h9xeepvLP8b-u1xc9tKQgCYLYpwXctb2A",null,"107995332406558523286"],[["sascha.s...@me.com"]],[["Irit Katriel"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that\u0026#39;s still the best",[1633483319,771000000],[1633482737],2],[2,[[2,[null,"What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that\u2019s still the best alternative I\u2019ve seen. It\u2019s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can\u2019t be confused with unpacking syntax.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-Barry\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Oct 5, 2021, at 11:15, sascha.schlemmer--- via Python-Dev \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u0026gt; I agree that *(E1, E2) looks like unpacking, how about\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except *E1 as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except (*E1, *E2) as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; even better would be if we could drop the braces:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except *E1, *E2 as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; _______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Python-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; To unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836234000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2PqH4waKDwV2ZQFYTYKzej\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836234000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw145daeo4WeYN7avYRnLmRU\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836234000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2-k-UO8MJdU979hIfDyfp8\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/6313bde01f92e/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","LvkB3jsxBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","5Eb7_kMyBgAJ",[["MRAB"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 2021-10-06 02:12, Barry Warsaw wrote: \u0026gt; What do the PEP authors think about `except group`?",[1633484454,307000000],[1633483949],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On 2021-10-06 02:12, Barry Warsaw wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that\u2019s still the best alternative I\u2019ve seen. It\u2019s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can\u2019t be confused with unpacking syntax.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"+1\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836235000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3cfft0x3o25zdk1PDqdrSz\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YHTK2JCUX4KZ6EDNYLAUEHXD2XNZTUDT/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YHTK2JCUX4KZ6EDNYLAUEHXD2XNZTUDT/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836235000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0AjyJTl0JgJ0ToWmpE8PiT\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/YHTK2JCUX4KZ6EDNYLAUEHXD2XNZTUDT/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836235000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1ZopQb8mLlNZ-DUU-iscZh\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","5Eb7_kMyBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","SoEjWqYyBgAJ",[["Ethan Furman","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXuuyE0tnnVPETLOlcT8fhlWkQXQ2IP7BOiKeB9WBIfD-faxd_d",null,"110002035965297290009"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 10/5/21 6:32 PM, MRAB wrote: \u0026gt; On 2021-10-06 02:12, Barry Warsaw wrote: \u0026gt;\u0026gt; What do the",[1633484876,745000000],[1633484498],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On 10/5/21 6:32 PM, MRAB wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e \u0026gt; On 2021-10-06 02:12, Barry Warsaw wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e \u0026gt;\u0026gt; What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that\u2019s still the best alternative I\u2019ve seen.\r\u003cbr\u003e \u0026gt;\u0026gt; It\u2019s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can\u2019t be confused with unpacking syntax.\r\u003cbr\u003e \u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e \u0026gt; +1\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"+1\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e--\r\u003cbr\u003e~Ethan~\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836235000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3cfft0x3o25zdk1PDqdrSz\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5E5OJAE6BZPANHII5QTYZ6KRGUPCS6WX/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5E5OJAE6BZPANHII5QTYZ6KRGUPCS6WX/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836235000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0djRn5zl5pf3032Yndky09\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/5E5OJAE6BZPANHII5QTYZ6KRGUPCS6WX/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836235000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1ZopQb8mLlNZ-DUU-iscZh\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","SoEjWqYyBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","P1W-qPVNBgAJ",[["Larry Hastings","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXkfLiy3vNHw2nNN3h3scg8d3Jryp5vvWEBJ1hV-heae3KNSg",null,"117783763050436477786"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","It seems like, for this to work, \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; would have to become a keyword. This would play",[1633514904,46000000],[1633514779],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eIt seems like, for this to work, \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; would have to become a\r\n keyword.\u00a0 This would play havoc with a lot of existing code.\u00a0 I\r\n can\u0026#39;t tell you how many times I\u0026#39;ve used the identifier \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; in\r\n my code, particularly when dealing with regular expressions.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eEven making it a soft keyword, a la \u0026quot;await\u0026quot; in 3.5, would lead to\r\n ambiguity: \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003egroup \u003d KeyboardInterrupt\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n try:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 while True:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 print(\u0026quot;thou can only defeat me with Ctrl-C\u0026quot;)\u003cbr\u003e\r\n except group as error:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 print(\u0026quot;lo, thou hast defeated me\u0026quot;)\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003ci\u003e/arry\u003c/i\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 10/6/21 2:12 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cpre\u003eWhat do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that\u2019s still the best alternative I\u2019ve seen. It\u2019s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can\u2019t be confused with unpacking syntax.\r\n\r\n-Barry\r\n\r\n\u003c/pre\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cpre\u003eOn Oct 5, 2021, at 11:15, sascha.schlemmer--- via Python-Dev \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003e\u0026lt;pytho...@python.org\u0026gt;\u003c/a\u003e wrote:\r\n\r\nI agree that *(E1, E2) looks like unpacking, how about\r\n\r\nexcept *E1 as error: ...\r\nexcept (*E1, *E2) as error: ...\r\n\r\neven better would be if we could drop the braces:\r\nexcept *E1, *E2 as error: ...\r\n_______________________________________________\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836236000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3sPSCsLaF3Rr_kiUxlSHrK\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836236000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1B5_1HAf3uX-fde5ZDIlxi\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u003c/a\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836236000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2bANdN0TxV1GM08FBwwU2R\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\n\u003c/pre\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cpre\u003e\r\n\u003c/pre\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cfieldset\u003e\u003c/fieldset\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cpre\u003e_______________________________________________\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836236000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3sPSCsLaF3Rr_kiUxlSHrK\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/pre\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cpre\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SZNDJPKT7WNWJHG4UDJ6D3BU6IN5ZXZO/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SZNDJPKT7WNWJHG4UDJ6D3BU6IN5ZXZO/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836236000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw07zw5YjmswPvhTll_R6IMG\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/SZNDJPKT7WNWJHG4UDJ6D3BU6IN5ZXZO/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/pre\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cpre\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836236000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2bANdN0TxV1GM08FBwwU2R\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\n\u003c/pre\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","P1W-qPVNBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","yxmY6z5ZBgAJ",[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"],[["Larry Hastings","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXkfLiy3vNHw2nNN3h3scg8d3Jryp5vvWEBJ1hV-heae3KNSg",null,"117783763050436477786"]],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 6 Oct 2021, at 12:06, Larry Hastings \u0026lt;la...@hastings.org\u0026gt; wrote: It seems like, for this to",[1633527313,339000000],[1633527247],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eOn 6 Oct 2021, at 12:06, Larry Hastings \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ela...@hastings.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \r\n \r\n \r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cp\u003eIt seems like, for this to work, \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; would have to become a\r\n keyword.\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eNo, just like `match` and `case` didn\u0026#39;t have to.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cp\u003eThis would play havoc with a lot of existing code.\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, Larry. I maintain this will be entirely backwards compatible.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cp\u003eEven making it a soft keyword, a la \u0026quot;await\u0026quot; in 3.5, would lead to\r\n ambiguity:\u00a0\u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote\u003e\u003cp\u003egroup \u003d KeyboardInterrupt\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n try:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 while True:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 print(\u0026quot;thou can only defeat me with Ctrl-C\u0026quot;)\u003cbr\u003e\r\n except group as error:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 print(\u0026quot;lo, thou hast defeated me\u0026quot;)\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eTwo things:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1. This is a convoluted example, I bet $100 you won\u0026#39;t find such an `except group` statement in any code predating my e-mail \ud83e\udd20 Sure, sometimes (very rarely) it\u0026#39;s useful to gather exceptions in a variable. But I\u0026#39;m pretty sure `group` won\u0026#39;t be the name chosen for it.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e2. While non-obvious, the example is not ambiguous. There can only be one parsing rule fitting this:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u0026#39;except\u0026#39; expression \u0026#39;as\u0026#39; NAME \u0026#39;:\u0026#39;\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eNote how this is different from:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; expression \u0026#39;as\u0026#39; NAME \u0026#39;:\u0026#39;\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThere could be confusion if except-star, whatever its name is going to be, supported an empty \u0026quot;catch all\u0026quot; variant like `except:`. Thankfully, this is explicitly listed as a no-go in PEP 654. So `except group:` remains unambiguous. We can even make its error message smarter than the default NameError, since -- as I claim -- it\u0026#39;s terribly unlikely somebody would mean to name their dynamic exception collection \u0026quot;group\u0026quot;.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e- \u0141\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/6593eeb9819cb/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","yxmY6z5ZBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","I66Xm8laBgAJ",[["Petr Viktorin","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUZ36hRarKmOt3w4_JiSdffDaEvo_3FufoG7siswBs_64qIMDQV",null,"100213320650501259511"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 06. 10. 21 15:34, \u0141ukasz Langa wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt;\u0026gt; On 6 Oct 2021, at 12:06, Larry Hastings \u0026lt;",[1633529008,444000000],[1633528882],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eOn 06. 10. 21 15:34, \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; On 6 Oct 2021, at 12:06, Larry Hastings \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ela...@hastings.org\u003c/a\u003e \r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \u0026lt;mailto:\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ela...@hastings.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; It seems like, for this to work, \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; would have to become a keyword.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; No, just like `match` and `case` didn\u0026#39;t have to.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; This would play havoc with a lot of existing code.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, Larry. I maintain \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; this will be entirely backwards compatible.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Even making it a soft keyword, a la \u0026quot;await\u0026quot; in 3.5, would lead to \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ambiguity:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; group \u003d KeyboardInterrupt\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 while True:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 print(\u0026quot;thou can only defeat me with Ctrl-C\u0026quot;)\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except group as error:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 print(\u0026quot;lo, thou hast defeated me\u0026quot;)\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Two things:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; 1. This is a convoluted example, I bet $100 you won\u0026#39;t find such an \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; `except group` statement in any code predating my e-mail \ud83e\udd20 Sure, \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; sometimes (very rarely) it\u0026#39;s useful to gather exceptions in a variable. \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; But I\u0026#39;m pretty sure `group` won\u0026#39;t be the name chosen for it.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; 2. While non-obvious, the example is not ambiguous. There can only be \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; one parsing rule fitting this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; expression \u0026#39;as\u0026#39; NAME \u0026#39;:\u0026#39;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Note how this is different from:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; expression \u0026#39;as\u0026#39; NAME \u0026#39;:\u0026#39;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; There could be confusion if except-star, whatever its name is going to \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; be, supported an empty \u0026quot;catch all\u0026quot; variant like `except:`. Thankfully, \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; this is explicitly listed as a no-go in PEP 654. So `except group:` \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; remains unambiguous.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"What about this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003egroup \u003d (KeyboardInterrupt, MemoryError)\r\u003cbr\u003eother_group \u003d (KeyError, IndexError)\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003etry:\r\u003cbr\u003e ...\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept group + other_group as error:\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null," ...\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836239000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0-pqSj98ePxqaB6HJn32ep\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/KH7T6VDRYENBLLFNY7CAXFEVH4IILXZ7/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/KH7T6VDRYENBLLFNY7CAXFEVH4IILXZ7/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836239000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0aTFejAwvuDamO8SMGFDnn\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/KH7T6VDRYENBLLFNY7CAXFEVH4IILXZ7/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836239000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1UYa5wXRJyO0mE9Qfyfgnr\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","I66Xm8laBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","kxTHKaZcBgAJ",[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"],[["Petr Viktorin","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjUZ36hRarKmOt3w4_JiSdffDaEvo_3FufoG7siswBs_64qIMDQV",null,"100213320650501259511"]],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","\u0026gt; On 6 Oct 2021, at 16:01, Petr Viktorin \u0026lt;enc...@gmail.com\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt; What about",[1633531055,374000000],[1633530971],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 6 Oct 2021, at 16:01, Petr Viktorin \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eenc...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; What about this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; group \u003d (KeyboardInterrupt, MemoryError)\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; other_group \u003d (KeyError, IndexError)\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group + other_group as error:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Haha, let\u0026#39;s see if we can write a Mersienne twister all inside an except statement \ud83d\udc68\ud83c\udffb\u200d\ud83d\udd2c\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eJoking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory! In practice, however, PEG is satisfied with the first rule that matches entirely, so this is a matter of choosing correct precedence. In this case, it seems it would make sense for \u0026quot;old-style\u0026quot; except to come first because your (convoluted! \ud83e\udd20) example is potentially useful, whereas \u0026quot;except +TimeoutError:\u0026quot; is pure nonsense.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eI will prototype a PR for this just so we can play with it.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e- \u0141\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/65ca629c71493/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","kxTHKaZcBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","Uiz7JlRhBgAJ",[["Brandt Bucher","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXXEziMjanubXrrpm114UHwjq2P6ZAKVXGoaXGVONFfFXmIb_qu",null,"113884020998869516839"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","\u0141ukasz Langa wrote: \u0026gt; Joking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;",[1633536200,781000000],[1633535964],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Joking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory!\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Another option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the \u201cgroup\u201d after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept MemoryError group as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept some + expression group as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eAnd edge-cases like this still work normally:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept some + group as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836240000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2FZ93MNZx6kNrblAjZcqsq\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836240000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0vFp8BXYExeLNzHcNOvBVO\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836240000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw39Plpih8bn8hli5fSjO_h0\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","Uiz7JlRhBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","oiRsvYlhBgAJ",[["Yury Selivanov","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXNAjxy3xnIS_s0NRcbxZiCCum6327nsTwoMc2-CDzGxnQLpg",null,"100200248210619737973"],[["Barry Warsaw","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWdblMxTEw2ssp_7h9xeepvLP8b-u1xc9tKQgCYLYpwXctb2A",null,"107995332406558523286"]],[["sascha.s...@me.com"],["Irit Katriel"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","I don\u0026#39;t like `except group` or any variant with soft keywords. I\u0026#39;ll list a few reasons here:",[1633536430,961000000],[1633536357],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eI don\u0026#39;t like `except group` or any variant with soft keywords.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eI\u0026#39;ll list a few reasons here:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1. `try: .. except group:` is a valid syntax today. And it will continue to be valid syntax. Having both `try: .. except group:` (catch exception `group`) and `try: .. except group E:` (catch exceptions of E into a group) in the same grammar worries me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1a. It can be especially confusing if someone has a local/global variable called `group`.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1b. Or, for example, if a user forgets to type `E` and leaves just `except group` it would fallback to the regular try..except behavior. And it would be a runtime error (\u0026quot;group\u0026quot; is undefined).\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1c. This will be all even more complicated because syntax highlighters in IDEs and on sites like GitHub will likely just always highlight `except group` as a pair of keywords (even in `except group:` variant).\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e2. I\u0026#39;m not sure I like the \u0026quot;sound\u0026quot; of it. IMO it would make more sense to write `except all E`, but `all()` is a built-in and so this would be at odds with (1).\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e3. This is a niche feature. People who use async/await will get used to `except*` in no time. `except*` is also about unpacking in some metaphysical sense (looks similar enough to `*args` in function signatures to me) so I think it reads just fine.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eSo I\u0026#39;m -1 on `except group` or any variant that uses soft keywords. If the SC considers making `group` a proper keyword I can possibly change my mind on this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eYury\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 6:28 PM Barry Warsaw \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eba...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003eWhat do the PEP authors think about `except group`?\u00a0 Bikeshedding aside, that\u2019s still the best alternative I\u2019ve seen.\u00a0 It\u2019s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can\u2019t be confused with unpacking syntax.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n-Barry\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; On Oct 5, 2021, at 11:15, sascha.schlemmer--- via Python-Dev \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; I agree that *(E1, E2) looks like unpacking, how about\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; except *E1 as error: ...\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; except (*E1, *E2) as error: ...\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; even better would be if we could drop the braces:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; except *E1, *E2 as error: ...\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; _______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; Python-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; To unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836241000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2BGU6x8tXxc9JcB11lodGs\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836241000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1z1TRHao3Gz065trfi0_wy\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/PFYQC7XMYFAGOPU5C2YVMND2BQSIJPRC/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836241000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1C_qw3arfFkKgNZm6SVDx2\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836241000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2BGU6x8tXxc9JcB11lodGs\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SZNDJPKT7WNWJHG4UDJ6D3BU6IN5ZXZO/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/SZNDJPKT7WNWJHG4UDJ6D3BU6IN5ZXZO/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836241000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0rnUDit3-QJ3ikUyOC-rY7\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/SZNDJPKT7WNWJHG4UDJ6D3BU6IN5ZXZO/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836241000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1C_qw3arfFkKgNZm6SVDx2\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr clear\u003d\"all\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0 \u00a0Yury\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","oiRsvYlhBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","LKu-R_BhBgAJ",[["Larry Hastings","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXkfLiy3vNHw2nNN3h3scg8d3Jryp5vvWEBJ1hV-heae3KNSg",null,"117783763050436477786"],[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"]],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 10/6/21 2:34 PM, \u0141ukasz Langa wrote: On 6 Oct 2021, at 12:06, Larry Hastings \u0026lt;larry@hastings.",[1633536871,266000000],[1633536809],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 10/6/21 2:34 PM, \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 6 Oct 2021, at 12:06, Larry Hastings \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ela...@hastings.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eIt seems like, for this to work, \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; would\r\n have to become a keyword.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eNo, just like `match` and `case` didn\u0026#39;t have to.\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eThis would play havoc with a lot of existing\r\n code.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eExtraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, Larry.\r\n I maintain this will be entirely backwards compatible.\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cp\u003eMy claim is that making \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; a hard-coded keyword, visible at\r\n all times, and thus no longer permitting use of \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; as an\r\n identifier, would play havoc with a lot of existing code.\u00a0 I don\u0026#39;t\r\n think it\u0026#39;s an extraordinary claim to say that \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; is a\r\n reasonably popular identifier.\u00a0 For example, I offer the 1,117\r\n uses of the word \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; in the Python 3.10.0 Lib/ directory\r\n tree.\u00a0 (I admit I didn\u0026#39;t review them all to see which ones were\r\n actual identifiers, and which ones were in strings or\r\n documentation.)\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003eIf the proposal is to add it as some \u0026quot;it\u0026#39;s only a keyword in this\r\n context\u0026quot; magic thing, a la how \u0026quot;async\u0026quot;/\u0026quot;await\u0026quot; were \u0026quot;soft\r\n keywords\u0026quot; in 3.5, and if we otherwise would permit the word\r\n \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; to be used as an identifier in perpetuity--okay, it won\u0026#39;t\r\n cause this problem.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003eWe can even make its error message smarter\r\n than the default NameError, since -- as I claim -- it\u0026#39;s terribly\r\n unlikely somebody would mean to name their dynamic exception\r\n collection \u0026quot;group\u0026quot;.\u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cp\u003eI concede I don\u0026#39;t completely understand PEP 654 yet, much less\r\n the counter-proposals flying around right now.\u00a0 But it does seem\r\n like \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; has the potential to be ambiguous, given that\r\n \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; is a reasonably popular identifier.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003ci\u003e/arry\u003c/i\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","LKu-R_BhBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","xssQ3iFiBgAJ",[["Antoine Pitrou","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXKcH_MfPBpWfe991UbH_m9An3SNJNmhJSarXuQPbIhsbqRb98",null,"116445201794679410034"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 09:05:57 -0700 Yury Selivanov \u0026lt;yseliv...@gmail.com\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt; So",[1633537084,352000000],[1633536954],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 09:05:57 -0700\r\u003cbr\u003eYury Selivanov \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eyseliv...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; So I\u0026#39;m -1 on `except group` or any variant that uses soft keywords. If the\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; SC considers making `group` a proper keyword I can possibly change my mind\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; on this.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"How about a dedicated keyword such as \u0026quot;exceptany\u0026quot; or \u0026quot;exceptall\u0026quot;?\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eRegards\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eAntoine.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836244000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0-iYuKMID-iBLe33-K2pId\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MO3XHOBKG2USFV5VEKZDZ3GBV7V2WJFO/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/MO3XHOBKG2USFV5VEKZDZ3GBV7V2WJFO/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836244000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw07MLl8NWCd7VTQkS50o8ve\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/MO3XHOBKG2USFV5VEKZDZ3GBV7V2WJFO/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836244000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0eMXKU-u-Yx1_tO8H7E9AA\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","xssQ3iFiBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","uLI9fX5iBgAJ",[["Brandt Bucher","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXXEziMjanubXrrpm114UHwjq2P6ZAKVXGoaXGVONFfFXmIb_qu",null,"113884020998869516839"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","\u0141ukasz Langa wrote: \u0026gt; Joking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;",[1633537482,172000000],[1633536857],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Joking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory!\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"The ambiguity with function calls, though, is probably a dealbreaker:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept group (E1, E2) as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept group(E1, E2) as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eSee my other message for an alternative (putting \u201cgroup\u201d after the expression).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eBrandt\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836244000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0-iYuKMID-iBLe33-K2pId\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BUK2YFLH4TPIRTPG5JAYKNEWOBJTHC2B/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/BUK2YFLH4TPIRTPG5JAYKNEWOBJTHC2B/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836244000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2I3VTCizB_D5bxrdUdomn8\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/BUK2YFLH4TPIRTPG5JAYKNEWOBJTHC2B/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836244000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0eMXKU-u-Yx1_tO8H7E9AA\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","uLI9fX5iBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","GGOQCrBiBgAJ",[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"],[["Larry Hastings","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXkfLiy3vNHw2nNN3h3scg8d3Jryp5vvWEBJ1hV-heae3KNSg",null,"117783763050436477786"]],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:13, Larry Hastings \u0026lt;la...@hastings.org\u0026gt; wrote: On 10/6/21 2:34 PM, \u0141ukasz",[1633537691,166000000],[1633537622],2],[2,[[3,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eOn 6 Oct 2021, at 18:13, Larry Hastings \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ela...@hastings.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cp\u003eOn 10/6/21 2:34 PM, \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\u003c/p\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003eWe can even make its error message smarter\r\n than the default NameError, since -- as I claim -- it\u0026#39;s terribly\r\n unlikely somebody would mean to name their dynamic exception\r\n collection \u0026quot;group\u0026quot;.\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cp\u003eI concede I don\u0026#39;t completely understand PEP 654 yet, much less\r\n the counter-proposals flying around right now.\u00a0 But it does seem\r\n like \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; has the potential to be ambiguous, given that\r\n \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; is a reasonably popular identifier.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eSure, that I agree with, it\u0026#39;s a very popular name.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e- \u0141\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/662b00a906318/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","GGOQCrBiBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","-mUL28piBgAJ",[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"],[["Brandt Bucher","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXXEziMjanubXrrpm114UHwjq2P6ZAKVXGoaXGVONFfFXmIb_qu",null,"113884020998869516839"]],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","\u0026gt; On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:14, Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;brandt...@gmail.com\u0026gt; wrote: \u0026gt; \u0026gt; \u0141ukasz",[1633537809,977000000],[1633537745],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:14, Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ebrandt...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Joking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory!\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; The ambiguity with function calls, though, is probably a dealbreaker:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group (E1, E2) as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group(E1, E2) as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Ding ding, we have a winner. This single-handedly kills the \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; syntax proposal.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; See my other message for an alternative (putting \u201cgroup\u201d after the expression).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"It\u0026#39;s interesting but at this point not so clearly better than except* to my eyes. Unless everybody else loves it, I don\u0026#39;t think we\u0026#39;ll go there.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e- \u0141\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/662cadb0b65fa/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","-mUL28piBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","dojf3fViBgAJ",[["Barry Warsaw","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWdblMxTEw2ssp_7h9xeepvLP8b-u1xc9tKQgCYLYpwXctb2A",null,"107995332406558523286"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","That might be exceptable. -Barry \u0026gt; On Oct 6, 2021, at 08:59, Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;brandtbucher@gmail.",[1633537994,600000000],[1633537279],2],[2,[[1,[null,"That might be exceptable.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-Barry\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On Oct 6, 2021, at 08:59, Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ebrandt...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; Joking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory!\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Another option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the \u201cgroup\u201d after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except MemoryError group as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except some + expression group as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; And edge-cases like this still work normally:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except some + group as e: \u2026\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; _______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Python-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; To unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836246000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0WeYMKp8XoRFx5Mp-tAcZK\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836246000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3EpX8nMb4yDvBntCMJZ_ZZ\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836246000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1nG-1rYslMkCgSnQpBe5iq\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/662f5dddf8876/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","dojf3fViBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","BLs3_CVjBgAJ",[["\u0141ukasz Langa","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVLAnuzeO-PFwY_aSmfduu8OWqGbnivLx5z3iYYKHewqhswFq9g",null,"105778377218418946638"],[["Yury Selivanov","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXNAjxy3xnIS_s0NRcbxZiCCum6327nsTwoMc2-CDzGxnQLpg",null,"100200248210619737973"]],[["Barry Warsaw","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWdblMxTEw2ssp_7h9xeepvLP8b-u1xc9tKQgCYLYpwXctb2A",null,"107995332406558523286"],["sascha.s...@me.com"],["Irit Katriel"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:05, Yury Selivanov \u0026lt;yseliv...@gmail.com\u0026gt; wrote: I don\u0026#39;t like `",[1633538201,418000000],[1633538132],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eOn 6 Oct 2021, at 18:05, Yury Selivanov \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eyseliv...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eI don\u0026#39;t like `except group` or any variant with soft keywords.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eAs Brandt just commented, this proposal is a no go due to confusion with function calls. I\u0026#39;ll respond below anyway because looking through it was an interesting experience\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eI\u0026#39;ll list a few reasons here:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1. `try: .. except group:` is a valid syntax today. And it will continue to be valid syntax. Having both `try: .. except group:` (catch exception `group`) and `try: .. except group E:` (catch exceptions of E into a group) in the same grammar worries me.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1a. It can be especially confusing if someone has a local/global variable called `group`.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThis is a valid point, also raised by Pablo over WhatsApp (which happens to work today!). The particular hairy example has to do with your next point so let\u0026#39;s go there first...\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1b. Or, for example, if a user forgets to type `E` and leaves just `except group` it would fallback to the regular try..except behavior. And it would be a runtime error (\u0026quot;group\u0026quot; is undefined).\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eRight. Worse yet, this wouldn\u0026#39;t be a runtime error UNLESS user code raises an exception within that try: block. Otherwise Python would happily take the unbound name and run with it:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 ...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... except group:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 ...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eEllipsis\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWhen you raise:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 1/0\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... except group:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 ...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eTraceback (most recent call last):\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 2, in \u0026lt;module\u0026gt;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eZeroDivisionError: division by zero\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eDuring handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eTraceback (most recent call last):\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 3, in \u0026lt;module\u0026gt;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eNameError: name \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; is not defined\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThis is pretty confusing and in my eyes disqualifies the \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; proposal. Pablo also claims it would be very hard to generate good error messages due to this and I can see why. My initial idea here was to modify this received `NameError` just like we do in other cases with the new \u0026quot;Did you mean\u0026quot; helper:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; arg \u003d 1\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ar\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eTraceback (most recent call last):\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 1, in \u0026lt;module\u0026gt;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eNameError: name \u0026#39;ar\u0026#39; is not defined. Did you mean: \u0026#39;arg\u0026#39;?\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; def f():\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 ar\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; f()\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eTraceback (most recent call last):\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 1, in \u0026lt;module\u0026gt;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 2, in f\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eNameError: name \u0026#39;ar\u0026#39; is not defined. Did you mean: \u0026#39;arg\u0026#39;?\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWe could potentially do something similar to generate better error messages for \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; confusion, right? Only \u003cb\u003ewe can\u0026#39;t\u003c/b\u003e if `group` happens to be bound as a name in a reachable scope which Larry points out is a popular name. In this scenario any syntax errors would end up with terribly confusing TypeErrors or AttributeErrors and so on. This is unacceptable.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e1c. This will be all even more complicated because syntax highlighters in IDEs and on sites like GitHub will likely just always highlight `except group` as a pair of keywords (even in `except group:` variant).\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThis would a minor annoyance but definitely true.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e2. I\u0026#39;m not sure I like the \u0026quot;sound\u0026quot; of it. IMO it would make more sense to write `except all E`, but `all()` is a built-in and so this would be at odds with (1).\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eThat I disagree with. \u0026quot;except KeyError\u0026quot; reads like \u0026quot;except if there\u0026#39;s a KeyError\u0026quot;. \u0026quot;except group KeyError\u0026quot; reads like \u0026quot;except if there\u0026#39;s a group of KeyErrors\u0026quot;. And if you said, \u0026quot;except group KeyError as eg\u0026quot;, an ExceptionGroup with KeyErrors would be exactly what you\u0026#39;re getting under `eg`.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e3. This is a niche feature. People who use async/await will get used to `except*` in no time. `except*` is also about unpacking in some metaphysical sense (looks similar enough to `*args` in function signatures to me) so I think it reads just fine.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eAgreed. Except-star will be fine, too.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eSo I\u0026#39;m -1 on `except group` or any variant that uses soft keywords. If the SC considers making `group` a proper keyword I can possibly change my mind on this.\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eMaking `group` a proper keyword is a no go. With Brandt\u0026#39;s arguments, the entire idea is a no go. It\u0026#39;s a bummer but I have to agree with the concerns raised.\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e- \u0141\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]],[["https://groups.google.com/group/dev-python/attach/66325fc37bb04/signature.asc?part\u003d0.0.1",null,2,"application/pgp-signature","signature.asc",849,""]]],["106492330805131205439","BLs3_CVjBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","_Ojrc5RjBgAJ",[["Steve Dower"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 10/6/2021 5:05 PM, Yury Selivanov wrote: \u0026gt; So I\u0026#39;m -1 on `except group` or any variant that",[1633538675,989000000],[1633538448],2],[2,[[2,[null,"On 10/6/2021 5:05 PM, Yury Selivanov wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; So I\u0026#39;m -1 on `except group` or any variant that uses soft keywords. If \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; the SC considers making `group` a proper keyword I can possibly change \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; my mind on this.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"For the record (and I\u0026#39;m sure I\u0026#39;m not the only one), I\u0026#39;m -100 on making \r\u003cbr\u003eit a proper keyword. That would be disastrous (e.g. re.Match.group() \r\u003cbr\u003ebecomes unusable).\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eA soft keyword, punctuation, or magic builtin are the only possibilities \r\u003cbr\u003ehere.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026quot;except all ...\u0026quot; is viable, since it\u0026#39;s already a builtin that isn\u0026#39;t \r\u003cbr\u003euseful as \u0026quot;except all:\u0026quot;. But if that\u0026#39;s the case, \u0026quot;except ExceptionGroup\u0026quot; \r\u003cbr\u003eis equally viable (with perhaps \u0026quot;except ExceptionGroup[Specific, Type]\u0026quot; \r\u003cbr\u003efor filtering?)\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eI\u0026#39;m not going to argue against \u0026quot;except *\u0026quot;, as that\u0026#39;s already been \r\u003cbr\u003eaccepted. But any alternative needs to:\r\u003cbr\u003e* break the same amount of existing code (i.e. none)\r\u003cbr\u003e* be equally/more readable and discoverable\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eSince \u0026quot;except *\u0026quot; breaks *no* existing code, that\u0026#39;s a pretty easy thing \r\u003cbr\u003eto check for in any alternative. But since \u0026quot;*\u0026quot; here has no precedent (as \r\u003cbr\u003ewe\u0026#39;ve seen in this discussion), virtually any alternative is going to be \r\u003cbr\u003emore readable.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eSo enjoy bikeshedding, everyone :) Please don\u0026#39;t break any of our code.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eCheers,\r\u003cbr\u003eSteve\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" 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data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/YOTXVPFABO4YKQ7TSEA3NMGNF47MBH5T/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836250000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0FqlsV-8HrJ__ImY5-E2fN\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/YOTXVPFABO4YKQ7TSEA3NMGNF47MBH5T/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836250000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0ACBMw1KS02ix7j5XIzr72\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","_Ojrc5RjBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","6EYs-xZkBgAJ",[["Thomas Grainger","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXn1hORbyB8HT3MA3WLruQ2At6crmuczogQYl8xAxfgeLasEuT35Q",null,"108112274630063155290"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","How about ``` try: ... exceptgroup E1, E2: ... `` _______________________________________________",[1633539236,546000000],[1633539159],2],[2,[[1,[null,"How about\r\u003cbr\u003e```\r\u003cbr\u003etry:\r\u003cbr\u003e ...\r\u003cbr\u003eexceptgroup E1, E2:\r\u003cbr\u003e ...\r\u003cbr\u003e``\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836250000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0mZ4YdJkIj1oCTo5efOZb3\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/QY2I5EWUZZZWPCLS7YFFWR7RDRNGTCY7/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/QY2I5EWUZZZWPCLS7YFFWR7RDRNGTCY7/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836250000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0RUSFxFrqy5xthH3X0q_Zv\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/QY2I5EWUZZZWPCLS7YFFWR7RDRNGTCY7/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836251000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0OkE4R66XqoIzz0fN4gfpG\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","6EYs-xZkBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","yodBmPVkBgAJ",[["Calvin Spealman",null,null,"110994224231753795526"],[["Brandt Bucher","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXXEziMjanubXrrpm114UHwjq2P6ZAKVXGoaXGVONFfFXmIb_qu",null,"113884020998869516839"]],[["python-dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 12:01 PM Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;brandt...@gmail.com\u0026gt; wrote: \u0141ukasz Langa",[1633540192,661000000],[1633540115],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 12:01 PM Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ebrandt...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u0026gt; Joking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory!\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nAnother option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the \u201cgroup\u201d after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept MemoryError group as e: \u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: \u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept some + expression group as e: \u2026\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eI like the clarity of this a lot. +100\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u00a0\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nAnd edge-cases like this still work normally:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept some + group as e: \u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003e\r\nPython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836252000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw22uE-oltOtFuIm-86lQXa1\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836252000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2uM44wIv04lQXMPlIcS6wb\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/TW5I4Z3XKCSZC6IRXHNFVPZVLHEKI7O3/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\nCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" rel\u003d\"noreferrer nofollow\" target\u003d\"_blank\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836252000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2eeTeHN57XoymEnkDDtc0b\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-weight:bold;margin:0px;padding:0px;font-size:14px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003eCALVIN SPEALMAN\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px 0px 4px;text-transform:uppercase\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003eSENIOR QUALITY ENGINEER\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:10px;margin:0px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:overpass,sans-serif;font-size:medium\"\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003cp style\u003d\"font-family:overpass,sans-serif;margin:0px 0px 6px;font-size:10px;color:rgb(153,153,153)\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"margin:0px;padding:0px\"\u003e\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ecalvin....@redhat.com\u003c/a\u003e\u00a0\u003c/span\u003e \u003cspan\u003eM: \u003ca href\u003d\"tel:+1.336.210.5107\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003e+1.336.210.5107\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://red.ht/sig\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://red.ht/sig\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836252000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2YAxecaza5N1dB2EdriG6h\"\u003e\u003cimg src\u003d\"https://ci5.googleusercontent.com/proxy/yZXsde3pBxOmM28xtjdqAiSG2gvsoMRSrVcqojiWX_5CaKz4jRUmYM0zxicwav1ce_OjPqiKcOqLycjAZ43Zq4FUG7uutNbVRgZH1yWzzeW-nej7aBakgFDQ\u003ds0-d-e1-ft#https://static.redhat.com/libs/redhat/brand-assets/latest/corp/logo.png\" alt\u003d\"https://red.ht/sig\" width\u003d\"96\" height\u003d\"22\"\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://redhat.com/trusted\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(204,0,0);font-weight:bold\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://redhat.com/trusted\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836252000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw34kA9snlPvTU4FzKClwFDQ\"\u003eTRIED. TESTED. TRUSTED.\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","yodBmPVkBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","8WYjnZZmBgAJ",[["Pablo Galindo Salgado","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjX-8QXbZmNkeeG2fn2yv3cJZjQSSBSp-7RleopWPqxVIq2cd-uIMg",null,"106129412086325350967"],[["Steve Dower"]],[["Python Dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","Just my two small cents: soft keywords have a cost as they make everything around them more",[1633541983,609000000],[1633541913],2],[2,[[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_default\" style\u003d\"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)\"\u003eJust my two small cents: soft keywords have a cost as they make everything around them more complicated in\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_default\" style\u003d\"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)\"\u003ethe parser. For example, creating custom error messages around soft keywords is one or two levels of magnitude\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_default\" style\u003d\"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)\"\u003emore complicated as sometimes you need to parse segments of syntactically\u00a0invalid code, with some generality\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_default\" style\u003d\"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)\"\u003e(like \u0026quot;starts with this token and then anything can follow until this other token\u0026quot;). Soft keywords also make\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_default\" style\u003d\"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)\"\u003ehighlighters\u0026#39; life more complicated as it has already been discussed.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_default\" style\u003d\"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_default\" style\u003d\"font-family:verdana,sans-serif;font-size:small;color:rgb(0,0,0)\"\u003eAnd just to be clear: I am not saying they are bad, just that they are not free of cost.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","8WYjnZZmBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","z1XHPR5nBgAJ",[["Guido van Rossum","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"],[["Brandt Bucher","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXXEziMjanubXrrpm114UHwjq2P6ZAKVXGoaXGVONFfFXmIb_qu",null,"113884020998869516839"]],[["Python-Dev"]],[["gu...@python.org","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 9:01 AM Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;brandt...@gmail.com\u0026gt; wrote: Another option (to",[1633542566,280000000],[1633542488],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 9:01 AM Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ebrandt...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\nAnother option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the \u201cgroup\u201d after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept MemoryError group as e: \u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: \u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept some + expression group as e: \u2026\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eArgh. This would be very easy to overlook. As the senior author of PEP 654 I am going to go with \u0026quot;except*\u0026quot;. Since it was shown that \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; has ambiguous edge cases the proposals have gotten worse, which to me is a good sign that we need to stop.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e--Guido van Rossum (\u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/~guido\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/~guido\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836254000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0-nm1oVdeazCGvHYQLDW6p\"\u003epython.org/~guido\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ci style\u003d\"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003ePronouns\u003c/span\u003e: he/him \u003c/i\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836254000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3OdQUmwEKxextLCgS3g8bA\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e(why is my\u00a0\u003cspan\u003epronoun\u003c/span\u003e\u00a0here?)\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","z1XHPR5nBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","VypFNkxuBgAJ",[["Barry Scott","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjWkfczsgWpYQx6mFND_Qb8UqxroyXkUMdWfloIqqRIc2ID2Qw",null,"115632607000506423587"],[["Guido van Rossum","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXW0Umk76ra-IQmLutQoQ4763TFI7aKNicRtSTqNxTOLChCJmg",null,"100160473654421355212"]],[["Python-Dev"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:48, Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;gu...@python.org\u0026gt; wrote: On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 9:01",[1633550460,314000000],[1633550388],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eOn 6 Oct 2021, at 18:48, Guido van Rossum \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003egu...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv class\u003d\"gmail_quote\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_attr\"\u003eOn Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 9:01 AM Brandt Bucher \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003ebrandt...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cblockquote class\u003d\"gmail_quote\" style\u003d\"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex\"\u003e\r\nAnother option (to remove the ambiguity) could be to move the \u201cgroup\u201d after the expression. Bonus points for reading more clearly:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept MemoryError group as e: \u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept (KeyError, IndexError) group as e: \u2026\u003cbr\u003e\r\nexcept some + expression group as e: \u2026\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eArgh. This would be very easy to overlook. As the senior author of PEP 654 I am going to go with \u0026quot;except*\u0026quot;. Since it was shown that \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; has ambiguous edge cases the proposals have gotten worse, which to me is a good sign that we need to stop.\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eWith async it goes *before* def, for, with.\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eCan you put the group before the except in the same style?\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003etry:\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"white-space:pre\"\u003e\t\u003c/span\u003estuff...\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003egroup except :\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"white-space:pre\"\u003e\t\u003c/span\u003ehandler...\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eBarry\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e-- \u003cbr\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\" class\u003d\"gmail_signature\"\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e--Guido van Rossum (\u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/~guido\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/~guido\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836255000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2CRRo3GmhOv1j1TOuG0Zal\"\u003epython.org/~guido\u003c/a\u003e)\u003c/div\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003ci style\u003d\"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);color:rgb(136,136,136)\"\u003e\u003cspan\u003ePronouns\u003c/span\u003e: he/him \u003c/i\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"http://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\" style\u003d\"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://feministing.com/2015/02/03/how-using-they-as-a-singular-pronoun-can-change-the-world/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836255000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3ATUQkkLlhriEsbEobddSf\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e(why is my\u00a0\u003cspan\u003epronoun\u003c/span\u003e\u00a0here?)\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836255000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw15C8kxxtjhoWGs1Kxw2Iqj\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003eMessage archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RRHP6VRI5PUMRSIXKFQVR2E6L523NUVC/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/RRHP6VRI5PUMRSIXKFQVR2E6L523NUVC/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836256000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0lkUpNzfBY-Q6m0CeIOrhf\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/RRHP6VRI5PUMRSIXKFQVR2E6L523NUVC/\u003c/a\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv style\u003d\"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836256000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0quxv8-w4k4xqjNPSbBTdo\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","VypFNkxuBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","lpoGv8hwBgAJ",[["Jim J. Jewett","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjXfIr_yxJLgRccY2x6Ei1m69nJHN3rrzcd7afe5UNalg38qQg",null,"113482214428245057633"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","Yury Selivanov wrote: \u0026gt; IMO it would make more sense to write `except all E`, \u0026gt; but `all()` is",[1633553193,951000000],[1633553117],2],[2,[[2,[null,"Yury Selivanov wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; IMO it would make more sense to write `except all E`, \r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; but `all()` is a built-in and so this would be at\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; odds with (1). [`try: .. except group:` already being valid\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; syntax today ]\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eIf anything, that makes \u0026quot;except all E\u0026quot; less of a problem; the built-in all is not an exception, so any current meaning would be, at the least, a dodgy renaming of a built-in to something unrelated -- in which case a reader *should* already be suspicious.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-jJ\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836256000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2JLgYZiFvnEPPXcy6yHAhD\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GRVMPGZFNE67GE25SQCRCQWZQFZMA7PX/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/GRVMPGZFNE67GE25SQCRCQWZQFZMA7PX/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836256000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1Xxjam2Vgz-lfI2qD-fmN4\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/GRVMPGZFNE67GE25SQCRCQWZQFZMA7PX/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836256000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0quxv8-w4k4xqjNPSbBTdo\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","lpoGv8hwBgAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","9jc2dSPnBQAJ",[["Patrick Reader","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVJXwAd624ninFYEn4S-cTPPDocxRBm_R23biVz2Bws3Ll_ww",null,"113900901510648972144"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","try: ... except group (KeyError, ZeroDivisionError) as error: ... With the precedence you suggest,",[1633575566,547000000],[1633531474],2],[2,[[1,[null,"try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eexcept group (KeyError, ZeroDivisionError) as error:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eWith the precedence you suggest, now group(...) becomes a function call.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eOn 06/10/2021 15:36, \u0141ukasz Langa wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; On 6 Oct 2021, at 16:01, Petr Viktorin \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eenc...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; What about this:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; group \u003d (KeyboardInterrupt, MemoryError)\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; other_group \u003d (KeyError, IndexError)\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except group + other_group as error:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Haha, let\u0026#39;s see if we can write a Mersienne twister all inside an except statement \ud83d\udc68\ud83c\udffb\u200d\ud83d\udd2c\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Joking aside, since we allow any expression after \u0026#39;except\u0026#39; \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; then this is indeed ambiguous. In theory! In practice, however, PEG is satisfied with the first rule that matches entirely, so this is a matter of choosing correct precedence. In this case, it seems it would make sense for \u0026quot;old-style\u0026quot; except to come first because your (convoluted! \ud83e\udd20) example is potentially useful, whereas \u0026quot;except +TimeoutError:\u0026quot; is pure nonsense.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; I will prototype a PR for this just so we can play with it.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; - \u0141\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836257000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3qc02fomB9vRFpk7edCIzc\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LW4RJO5DTBO7CEYBTT2E7UTHCL6SCXK7/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/LW4RJO5DTBO7CEYBTT2E7UTHCL6SCXK7/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836257000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw3TH1SHkpflx12YvAgjArTp\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/LW4RJO5DTBO7CEYBTT2E7UTHCL6SCXK7/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836257000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1GjHJ68SXrdPfgjsj2y81-\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","9jc2dSPnBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","UYHURVDnBQAJ",[["Patrick Reader","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVJXwAd624ninFYEn4S-cTPPDocxRBm_R23biVz2Bws3Ll_ww",null,"113900901510648972144"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","How about \u0026quot;except_group\u0026quot;, or \u0026quot;exceptgroup\u0026quot;? That\u0026#39;s definitely not ambiguous,",[1633575759,99000000],[1633530942],2],[2,[[1,[null,"How about \u0026quot;except_group\u0026quot;, or \u0026quot;exceptgroup\u0026quot;? That\u0026#39;s definitely not ambiguous, and can certainly work as a soft keyword.\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\r\u003cbr\u003eOn 06/10/2021 11:06, Larry Hastings wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; It seems like, for this to work, \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; would have to become a keyword.\u00a0 This would play havoc with a lot of existing code.\u00a0 I can\u0026#39;t tell you how many times I\u0026#39;ve used the identifier \u0026quot;group\u0026quot; in my code, particularly when dealing with regular expressions.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; Even making it a soft keyword, a la \u0026quot;await\u0026quot; in 3.5, would lead to ambiguity:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; group \u003d KeyboardInterrupt\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; try:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 while True:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 print(\u0026quot;thou can only defeat me with Ctrl-C\u0026quot;)\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; except group as error:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 print(\u0026quot;lo, thou hast defeated me\u0026quot;)\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt; //arry/\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt; On 10/6/21 2:12 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; What do the PEP authors think about `except group`? Bikeshedding aside, that\u2019s still the best alternative I\u2019ve seen. It\u2019s unambiguous, self-descriptive, and can\u2019t be confused with unpacking syntax.\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; -Barry\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"\u0026gt;\u0026gt; wrote:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; I agree that *(E1, E2) looks like unpacking, how about\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except *E1 as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except (*E1, *E2) as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; even better would be if we could drop the braces:\r\u003cbr\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt; except *E1, *E2 as error: ...\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; [...]\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836258000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0p4KNi8YZbl3j7uO1TUzbQ\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5N4FDYAW5AB2AXMGM6CBRSN6PK3IWMRD/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/5N4FDYAW5AB2AXMGM6CBRSN6PK3IWMRD/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836258000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw2eKuhodsKN6kM2gHA4Z2Y-\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/5N4FDYAW5AB2AXMGM6CBRSN6PK3IWMRD/\u003c/a\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cbr\u003eCode of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836258000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1Q1NBopwGGLoaTqoBgTXtb\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","UYHURVDnBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","jDVpt7rnBQAJ",[["Patrick Reader","//lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjVJXwAd624ninFYEn4S-cTPPDocxRBm_R23biVz2Bws3Ll_ww",null,"113900901510648972144"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","On 06/10/2021 17:35, \u0141ukasz Langa wrote: On 6 Oct 2021, at 18:05, Yury Selivanov \u0026lt;yselivanov.ml@",[1633576216,213000000],[1633542845],2],[2,[[2,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cp\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 06/10/2021 17:35, \u0141ukasz Langa\r\n wrote:\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eOn 6 Oct 2021, at 18:05, Yury Selivanov \u0026lt;\u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003eyseliv...@gmail.com\u003c/a\u003e\u0026gt;\r\n wrote:\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\r\n [...]\u003c/div\u003e"]],[3,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eI\u0026#39;ll list a few reasons here:\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e1. `try: .. except group:` is a valid syntax\r\n today. And it will continue to be valid syntax. Having\r\n both `try: .. except group:` (catch exception `group`) and\r\n `try: .. except group E:` (catch exceptions of E into a\r\n group) in the same grammar worries me.\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e1a. It can be especially confusing if someone\r\n has a local/global variable called `group`.\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eThis is a valid point, also raised by Pablo over WhatsApp\r\n (which happens to work today!). The particular hairy example\r\n has to do with your next point so let\u0026#39;s go there first...\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003cblockquote type\u003d\"cite\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv dir\u003d\"ltr\"\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e1b. Or, for example, if a user forgets to type\r\n `E` and leaves just `except group` it would fallback to\r\n the regular try..except behavior. And it would be a\r\n runtime error (\u0026quot;group\u0026quot; is undefined).\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eRight. Worse yet, this wouldn\u0026#39;t be a runtime error UNLESS\r\n user code raises an exception within that try: block.\r\n Otherwise Python would happily take the unbound name and run\r\n with it:\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 ...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... except group:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 ...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eEllipsis\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eWhen you raise:\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; try:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 1/0\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... except group:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 ...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eTraceback (most\r\n recent call last):\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File\r\n \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 2, in \u0026lt;module\u0026gt;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eZeroDivisionError:\r\n division by zero\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eDuring handling of\r\n the above exception, another exception occurred:\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eTraceback (most\r\n recent call last):\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File\r\n \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 3, in \u0026lt;module\u0026gt;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eNameError: name\r\n \u0026#39;group\u0026#39; is not defined\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eThis is pretty confusing and in my eyes disqualifies the\r\n \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; proposal. Pablo also claims it would be very\r\n hard to generate good error messages due to this and I can see\r\n why. My initial idea here was to modify this received\r\n `NameError` just like we do in other cases with the new \u0026quot;Did\r\n you mean\u0026quot; helper:\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; arg \u003d\r\n 1\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; ar\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eTraceback (most\r\n recent call last):\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File\r\n \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 1, in \u0026lt;module\u0026gt;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eNameError: name\r\n \u0026#39;ar\u0026#39; is not defined. Did you mean: \u0026#39;arg\u0026#39;?\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; def\r\n f():\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e... \u00a0 ar\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e...\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u0026gt;\u0026gt;\u0026gt; f()\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eTraceback (most\r\n recent call last):\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File\r\n \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 1, in \u0026lt;module\u0026gt;\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003e\u00a0 File\r\n \u0026quot;\u0026lt;stdin\u0026gt;\u0026quot;, line 2, in f\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cfont face\u003d\"Courier New\"\u003e\u003cspan style\u003d\"font-style:normal\"\u003eNameError: name\r\n \u0026#39;ar\u0026#39; is not defined. Did you mean: \u0026#39;arg\u0026#39;?\u003c/span\u003e\u003c/font\u003e\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003e\u003cbr\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003cdiv\u003eWe could potentially do something similar to generate\r\n better error messages for \u0026quot;except group\u0026quot; confusion, right?\r\n Only \u003cb\u003ewe can\u0026#39;t\u003c/b\u003e if `group` happens to be bound\r\n as a name in a reachable scope which Larry points out is a\r\n popular name. In this scenario any syntax errors would end up\r\n with terribly confusing TypeErrors or AttributeErrors and so\r\n on. This is unacceptable.\u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n \u003c/blockquote\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e"]],[1,[null,"\u003cdiv\u003e\u003cp\u003eNow a moot point, but this could be a SyntaxWarning.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n \u003c/div\u003e\r\n"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","jDVpt7rnBQAJ",false,false,0]],[[["106492330805131205439","ymprA3KVAwAJ",[["Steven D'Aprano"],[["pytho...@python.org"]]],false,null,"[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 654 except* formatting","Rob Cliffe is having problems posting to the Python-Dev list, so he posted an alternative suggestion",[1634524998,691000000],[1634524435],2],[2,[[1,[null,"Rob Cliffe is having problems posting to the Python-Dev list, so he \r\u003cbr\u003eposted an alternative suggestion to the Python-Ideas list:\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/6KQUQBKFGJSGDNXFZBSM5OXD2ISLIQTT/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-ideas@python.org/message/6KQUQBKFGJSGDNXFZBSM5OXD2ISLIQTT/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836262000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0x0Tn0aAhg8n61kTUm9GWu\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python...@python.org/message/6KQUQBKFGJSGDNXFZBSM5OXD2ISLIQTT/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eRob\u0026#39;s idea is to use \u0026quot;except for ...\u0026quot; with exception groups, instead of \r\u003cbr\u003ea new keyword or symbol.\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e-- \r\u003cbr\u003eSteve\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[2,[null,"_______________________________________________\r\u003cbr\u003ePython-Dev mailing list -- \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epytho...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003eTo unsubscribe send an email to \u003ca href data-email-masked rel\u003d\"nofollow\"\u003epython-d...@python.org\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e\u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836262000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw0Hw4jUATb6NzLJUE6H9cR9\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[1,[null,"Message archived at \u003ca href\u003d\"https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/62ZX4T226BCRQE7ZNJPSJNNBAP735K2J/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/62ZX4T226BCRQE7ZNJPSJNNBAP735K2J/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836262000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1q0pM1LkbwEn7vIopAwzbz\"\u003ehttps://mail.python.org/archives/list/pytho...@python.org/message/62ZX4T226BCRQE7ZNJPSJNNBAP735K2J/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]],[3,[null,"Code of Conduct: \u003ca href\u003d\"http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\" target\u003d\"_blank\" rel\u003d\"nofollow\" data-saferedirecturl\u003d\"https://www.google.com/url?hl\u003den-US\u0026amp;q\u003dhttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u0026amp;source\u003dgmail\u0026amp;ust\u003d1743567836263000\u0026amp;usg\u003dAOvVaw1s63iKhcFbukAYPRMGizMQ\"\u003ehttp://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/\u003c/a\u003e\r\u003cbr\u003e"]]]]],["106492330805131205439","ymprA3KVAwAJ",false,false,0]]]], sideChannel: {}});</script><script id="wiz_jd" nonce="eeL2IrARQFmdrcMSX3cigg">if (window['_wjdc']) {const wjd = {}; 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