CINXE.COM

<!DOCTYPE html> <html lang="en"> <head> <title>Why this Yale professor is fleeing America</title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8"> <meta name="viewport" content="width=device-width"> <link id="favicon" rel="shortcut icon" type="image/png" href="data:image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAABAAAAAQCAYAAAAf8/9hAAAAAXNSR0IArs4c6QAAAHlJREFUOBFjYBgFFIcA48cYpf/opvAv+YouxODXshZDbFONDSMLSJRv8V245KdYZTD7//8XcDFGRgkwe2O1NVzMv/UomA02AMQCaUQ2CCQG0ohsEEgMphHEBgEmCIWdRNeMTRXYBTBnw2iYQpjTYXx022Hio/RAhwAAjXEfJrIXnj4AAAAASUVORK5CYII="> <style> body { display: block; padding: 0px 20px; max-width: 550px; margin: 0 auto; font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI", Roboto, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", "Segoe UI Symbol"; } .full-version-link { margin-left: 15px; } .slug-line { font-size: 1.1rem; margin-bottom: 15px; } .hr-line { position: relative; height: 4px; } .hr-line:after { background: linear-gradient(to right, #e60000 0%, #e60000 33.33%, #000000 33.33%, #000000 66.66%, #3366CC 66.66%); position: absolute; content: ''; height: 4px; right: 0; left: 0; top: 0; } hr.gray { border: .5px solid gray; } .story-title { line-height: 2rem; font-size: 1.5rem; margin: 0; } .topic-heading { line-height: 2rem; font-size: 1.5rem; } .topic-container>ul { padding: 0; line-height: 1.4rem; } .topic-container li { display: block; padding-bottom: 15px; } .topic-container { margin-top: 20px; } .topic-date { margin: 20px 0; font-style: italic; } .paragraphs-container { line-height: 1.5rem; } .button:link, .button:visited { background-color: white; color: black; border: 2px solid black; padding: 4px 8px; text-align: center; text-decoration: none; display: inline-block; } .button:hover, .button:active { background-color: black; color: white; } .lower-nav-container { margin-top: 40px; } .lower-nav-container li { margin-left: 0; display: inline; padding-right: 20px; } h6 { text-transform: uppercase; } </style> </head> <body> <header> <p>Text-Only Version <a class="full-version-link button" href="https://www.npr.org/nx-s1-5345769">Go To Full Site</a></p> </header> <main> <article> <div class="story-container"> <p class="slug-line"> <a class="slug-link" href="/">NPR</a> > <a class="slug-link" href="/1013">Education</a> </p> <div class="story-head"> <h1 class="story-title">Why this Yale professor is fleeing America</h1> <p>By A Martínez, Destinee Adams</p> <p>Updated Tuesday, April 1, 2025 • 5:00 PM EDT</p> <p>Heard on <a href="/nx-s1-5294701/2025-04-01">Morning Edition</a> </div> <div class="hr-line"></div> <div class="paragraphs-container"> <p>Philosophy professor Jason Stanley has been a faculty member of Yale University since 2013. But as the Trump administration targets university funding, he has decided to leave Yale, and the country altogether.</p> <hr> Related Story: <a href="/nx-s1-5326047">NPR</a> <hr><p>Stanley, an American Jewish man, will move his spouse and children to Canada soon, as he has secured a job at the University of Toronto.</p><p>Though the administration says they are pulling funding from universities to protect students from antisemitism, Stanley says the administration is using Jewish people as an "excuse to take down democracy." Stanley is an expert on fascism and the author of several books on the topic, including <em>Erasing History: How Fascists Rewrite the Past to Control the Future. </em></p> <hr> Related Story: <a href="/nx-s1-5321326">NPR</a> <hr><p>He made a quick and definitive decision to leave Yale and the U.S. when Columbia University <a href="/2025/03/24/1240552679/here-now-anytime-03-24-2025" target="_blank">agreed to restructure</a> its student protest policies to get back $400 million in federal research funding that the Trump administration pulled from the university.</p><p>Harvard University is the latest school to be targeted for what the administration says is a failure to protect students from antisemitism. On Monday, the Trump administration said it is reviewing about $9 billion in funding for the university.</p><p>In his interview with NPR's A Martínez, Stanley discussed his decision to leave America and what prompted it.</p><p><em>The following interview has been edited for length and clarity. </em></p><p><hr /></p><p><h3><strong>Interview highlights</strong></h3></p><p><strong>Martínez: If Yale had told you maybe off the record that they were going to try and work behind the scenes maybe to protect academic freedom, but that it would be much more difficult to do without the federal funds. How would you have responded to that?</strong></p><p><strong>Stanley</strong>: I would respond by saying that's the wrong tack. You need a very loud defense of democratic institutions. That response would not take seriously the point that this is a war.</p><p>If universities think they can work behind the scenes and make friends, they're simply confused about the nature of the conflict. Yale University, like other leading universities, needs to take the lead, take a leadership role with and collectively work with other universities loudly to protect democracy.</p><p><strong>Martínez: But what war can be won without funding?</strong></p><p><strong>Stanley</strong>: You might lose anyway. But you can't win a war unless you recognize it's a war. This way they're going to pick us off one by one. And history is watching here. Our institutions will be written about. They're being attacked for this entirely fake reason that's furthermore fomenting antisemitism in the United States. It's going to create mass popular anger against Jewish people.</p><p>So, if universities want to fight anti-Semitism, they need to stand up and say, 'No, we are not threats to American Jews. You are threatening American Jews.'</p><p><strong>Martínez: Wouldn't it be more helpful in that fight, Professor, for you to stay at Yale, to fight that fight as opposed to being in Canada?</strong></p><p><strong>Stanley</strong>: I have Black Jewish children and the attacks on DEI are attacks on Black people. They're attacking Black history. They're targeting Black people in positions of power. And they're creating mass popular anger against Jewish people by taking Jewish people, by setting us up and saying we're the excuse for taking down democracy.</p><p>Personally, I'm not going to risk my kid's safety for a political point.</p><p><strong>Martínez: Political dynamics in Canada, how are they different? Because, as you are talking, you clearly see it as a place where you can work more freely.</strong></p><p><strong>Stanley</strong>: That's right. I have the privilege and good fortune to get a job there. And they have a long term plan of creating a center that will be a refuge for politicians, journalists and professors from democratically backsliding or authoritarian countries like the United States or Russia. And my job will be to work with these people to jointly strategize about how to return our countries to democracy.</p> <hr> <h3>Transcript</h3> <p>A MARTÍNEZ, HOST: <p><p> The Trump administration says it is reviewing about $9 billion in funding for Harvard. It's the latest school to be targeted for what the administration says is a failure to protect students from antisemitism. Philosopher Jason Stanley believes investigations like that with ultimatums tied to federal funding are a threat to academic freedom - such a threat that he's leaving Yale University and the United States to teach American studies at the University of Toronto. Jason Stanley is the author of two books on fascism, including his latest "Erasing History: How Fascists Rewrite The Past To Control The Future." So, Professor, why don't you believe that higher education, in general, and Yale, in particular, will protect your academic freedom?<p><p>JASON STANLEY: Well, because the federal government, this fascist regime, has figured out a way to target funds to universities. And what we're seeing are democratic institutions across the United States, including universities, capitulate to these demands.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: If Yale, Professor, had told you, maybe, off the record that they were going to try and work behind the scenes, maybe to protect academic freedom, but that it would be much more difficult to do without the federal funds, how would you have responded to that?<p><p>STANLEY: I would respond by saying that's the wrong tack. You need a very loud defense of democratic institutions. They don't - that response would not take seriously the point that this is a war. We cannot fight this unless we recognize that this administration wants to take down the universities because they want to target intellectuals. That's what fascists always do. And so if universities think they can work behind the scenes and make friends, they're simply confused about the nature of the conflict. Yale University, like other leading universities, needs to take the lead, take a leadership role and collectively work with other universities loudly to protect democracy.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: But what war can be won without funding?<p><p>STANLEY: You might lose anyway. You might. But you can't win a war unless you recognize it's a war. This way, they're going to pick us off one by one. And history is watching here. Our institutions will be written about they're being attacked under this entirely fake reason, that's, furthermore, fomenting antisemitism in the United States. It's going to create mass popular anger against Jewish people. So if universities want to fight antisemitism, they need to stand up and say, no, we are not threats to American Jews. You are threatening American Jews.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: So, Professor, I mean, if Ivy League schools, with their long-established history and powerful, wealthy, connected alumni, can't or won't push back, I mean, what hope do other universities have to protect their academic freedoms?<p><p>STANLEY: They don't have any hope of protecting their academic freedoms unless Ivy League schools take a loud and proud leadership role and collectively work with other universities, using our endowments to protect them. That's our only hope. And, again, I mean, what we're seeing is, we're seeing students being arrested and sent to brutal Louisiana prisons for co-authoring op-eds and student newspapers. This isn't going to end anytime soon.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: Wouldn't it be more helpful in that fight, Professor, for you to stay at Yale to fight that fight, as opposed to being in Canada?<p><p>STANLEY: I have Black Jewish children, and the attacks on DEI are an attacks - are attacks on Black people. They're attacking Black history. They're targeting Black people in positions of power, and they're creating mass popular anger against Jewish people by taking Jewish people, by setting us up and saying, you know, we're the excuse for taking down democracy. And, you know, personally, I'm not going to risk my kids' safety for a political point. And finally, by leaving, I'm making a political point. I'm making the political point that I'm repeating history of Jewish intellectuals leaving a country in the face of a fascist regime.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: Now, you've written two books on fascism, seeing that history as a cautionary tale. So how much did that play into your decision to leave?<p><p>STANLEY: Well, it's - it played into my decision because my work over the last decade has been calling attention to the rise of fascism in the United States. And you can only write so much. At some point, you have to do something. And this action that I'm doing of uprooting my family, of leaving an institution I love - Yale University - to University of Toronto, which, let's be clear, is a great university, and I'm - it's - I'm also leaving because of Toronto is setting up institution - an institution and a center that will be central in this fight.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: And so the political dynamics in Canada, how are they different? Because you - as you are talking, are clearly seeing it as a place where you can maybe work more freely.<p><p>STANLEY: That's right. I mean, the universe - I have the privilege and good fortune to get a job there, and they have a long-term plan of creating a center that will be a refuge for politicians, journalists and professors from democratically backsliding or authoritarian countries like the United States or Russia, and to help us. And my job, along with others, will be to work with these people to jointly strategize about how to return our countries to democracy.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: The Trump administration's argument, Professor, is that it's fighting back against antisemitism on campus. How do you respond to that?<p><p>STANLEY: It's setting us up. It's antisemitic. What they're - I mean, what they're doing, $9 billion from Harvard is what they're threatening now. Columbia University, hundreds of millions of dollars so far. They're targeting intellectuals in the name of - supposedly in the name of Jewish people. What's happening is like what Stalin did in Eastern - in the Soviet Union - setting up large groups of people for popular rage. And Jewish people who are complicit or actively participating in this are setting us American Jews up. We've never been at the center of U.S. politics like this, and this is never good for the Jews.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: Professor, you got about 30 seconds. There are plenty of other educators around the country that maybe can't leave the country if they wanted to. What's your message to them?<p><p>STANLEY: I have incredible privilege to leave the country under these conditions. And I don't want to moralize or lecture because I'm taking advantage of that privilege. But I would say, as we watch this crackdown continue, to speak up loudly when you can and watch out for the conditions that suggest you can't.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: Professor Jason Stanley of Yale University soon to join the University of Toronto, thank you for your time.<p><p>STANLEY: Thank you.<p><p>MARTÍNEZ: And Yale said last week that, quote, "Faculty members make decisions about their careers for a variety of reasons and the University respects all such decisions."<p><p>(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)<p> </div> </div> </article> </main> <div class="hr-line"></div> <nav> <p>Topics</p> <ul> <li><a href="/1001">News</a></li> <li><a href="/1008">Culture</a></li> <li><a href="/1039">Music</a></li> </ul> </nav> <footer> <nav class="lower-nav-container"> <li><a href="/614470770">Contact Us</a></li> <li><a href="/179876898">Terms of Use</a></li> <li><a href="/179881519">Permissions</a></li> <li><a href="/179878450">Privacy Policy</a></li> </nav> <p>&copy NPR</p> </footer> </body> </html>