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window.googletag = window.googletag || {cmd: []}; googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.defineSlot('/53013535/Forum_Leaderboard_970x250_728x90', [[728, 90], [970, 250]], 'div-gpt-ad-1593609283322-0').addService(googletag.pubads()); googletag.pubads().enableSingleRequest(); googletag.enableServices(); }); </script>  <div style="margin: 0 auto; padding-top: 30px; text-align: center; margin: 0 auto; min-width: 728px; max-width: 970px;"> <div id='div-gpt-ad-1593609283322-0'> <script> googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1593609283322-0'); }); </script> </div> </div><div class="MessageList Discussion"> <div id="Item_0" class="PageTitle"><div class="Options"></div><h1>Apple accused of forcing employees to sign illegal contracts, quashed labor efforts</h1></div> <div id="Discussion_237806" class="Item ItemDiscussion Role_administrator"> <div class="Discussion"> <div class="Item-Header DiscussionHeader"> <div class="AuthorWrap"> <span class="Author"> <a title="AppleInsider" href="/profile/12836/AppleInsider" class="PhotoWrap"><img src="https://forums.appleinsider.com/uploads/userpics/044/n2YP8S2JOU0CV.jpg" alt="AppleInsider" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoMedium" /></a><a href="/profile/12836/AppleInsider" class="Username">AppleInsider</a> </span> </div> <div class="Meta DiscussionMeta"> <span class="MItem DateCreated"> Posted: <time title="October 1, 2024 4:43PM" datetime="2024-10-01T16:43:18+00:00">October 1, 2024 4:43PM</time> </span> <br /> <span class="MItem Category"> in <a href="https://forums.appleinsider.com/categories/general-discussion">General Discussion</a></span> </div> </div> <div class="Item-BodyWrap"> <div class="Item-Body"> <div class="Message"> <p>A U.S. labor board believes that Apple has violated employees' right to organize and forced them to adhere to overly strict standards and contracts. <br /><br /></p><div style="margin: auto;"><img src="https://photos5.appleinsider.com/gallery/61228-126435-nlrb-xl.jpg" alt="National Labor Relations Board seal with a bald eagle holding a shield with stars and stripes, surrounded by blue and gold text." height="738" /><br /><span>Logo credit: NLRB.gov</span></div><p><br /><br />On Monday, the National Labor Relations Board launched a complaint against Apple, claiming that it required its employees to sign illegal confidentiality, non-compete, and non-disclosure agreements. The complaint also alleges that Apple over-enforced social media and misconduct policies on its employees. <br /><br />The statement, <a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.reuters.com/technology/apple-accused-by-us-labor-board-imposing-illegal-workplace-rules-2024-10-01/">seen by</a> <em>Reuters,</em> accuses Apple of "interfering with, restraining, and coercing employees in the exercise of" their rights under federal labor law.<br /><br />It appears that Apple has no plans on settling the case, and instead intends to "share the facts at the hearing," an Apple spokesperson told <em>Reuters</em>. An administrative judge will hear the case in January.<br /><br />The NLRB wants Apple to repeal its unlawful rules. It also believes the Cupertino-based company should be required to notify its workforce of their legal rights.<br /><br />The accusations stem from a <a rel="nofollow" href="https://appleinsider.com/articles/21/09/10/apple-fires-employee-who-spoke-out-on-workplace-issues-cites-alleged-leak?utm_medium=social&utm_source=ai_forums">September 2021</a> case against Apple, in which Ashley Gjovik, a former senior engineering program manager was potentially fired as a retaliation for her attempts to discuss work-related issues, such as harassment, bullying, and sexism. <br /><br />In May, the NLRB found that Apple <a rel="nofollow" href="https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/05/06/us-labor-board-rules-apple-illegally-interrogated-retail-staff-in-nyc?utm_medium=social&utm_source=ai_forums">conducted unauthorized interrogations</a> of employees at the Apple World Trade Center retail store in New York City. Apple chose to <a rel="nofollow" href="https://appleinsider.com/articles/23/06/24/apple-to-appeal-nlrb-ruling-it-coercively-interrogated-staff-about-unions?utm_medium=social&utm_source=ai_forums">appeal the ruling.</a> <br /><br /> <br /><br /> <a rel="nofollow" href="https://appleinsider.com/articles/24/10/01/apple-accused-of-forcing-employees-to-sign-illegal-contracts-quashed-labor-efforts?utm_medium=social&utm_source=ai_forums">Read on AppleInsider</a></p> </div> </div> </div> </div> </div> <a id="first-reply" name="first-reply"></a></div><div class="CommentsWrap"><span class="BeforeCommentHeading"></span><div class="DataBox DataBox-Comments"><h2 class="CommentHeading">Comments</h2> <ul class="MessageList DataList Comments"> <li class="Item Alt ItemComment Role_member" id="Comment_3459097"> <div class="Comment"> <div class="Options"> <span class="PostNum">Reply 1 of 5</span> </div> <div class="Item-Header CommentHeader"> <div class="AuthorWrap"> <span class="Author"> <a title="9secondkox2" href="/profile/218831/9secondkox2" class="PhotoWrap"><img src="https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=3849ae286b8f6d6557af38a4c6b4a278&amp;size=50&default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F3849ae286b8f6d6557af38a4c6b4a278.png" alt="9secondkox2" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoMedium" /></a><a href="/profile/218831/9secondkox2" class="Username">9secondkox2</a> </span> <span class="AuthorInfo"> <span class="MItem PostCount">Posts: <b>3,138</b></span><span class="MItem RoleTitle member">member</span> </span> </div> <div class="Meta CommentMeta CommentInfo"> <span class="MItem DateCreated"> <a href="/discussion/comment/3459097/#Comment_3459097" class="Permalink" name="Item_1" rel="nofollow"><time title="October 1, 2024 7:20PM" datetime="2024-10-01T19:20:22+00:00">October 1, 2024 7:20PM</time></a> </span> </div> </div> <div class="Item-BodyWrap"> <div class="Item-Body"> <div class="Message"> Signing contracts isn’t illegal. <div><br /></div><div>And if a union is crushed by it, that’s also not illegal. </div><div><br /></div><div>Nothing to see here. </div> </div> <span class="UserReactionWrap" data-userid="105427" title="bonobob - Informative on October 1, 2024."><a title="bonobob" href="/profile/105427/bonobob" class="PhotoWrap PhotoWrapSmall"><img src="https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=143e515262b81d478adc8e8768aebbfd&amp;size=50&default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F143e515262b81d478adc8e8768aebbfd.png" alt="bonobob" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoSmall" /></a><span class="ReactSprite Reaction-4 ReactInfo"></span></span> <li class="Item ItemComment Role_member" id="Comment_3459102"> <div class="Comment"> <div class="Options"> <span class="PostNum">Reply 2 of 5</span> </div> <div class="Item-Header CommentHeader"> <div class="AuthorWrap"> <span class="Author"> <a title="Fred257" href="/profile/239039/Fred257" class="PhotoWrap"><img src="https://forums.appleinsider.com/uploads/userpics/554/nWTOF1PVKF7IU.jpeg" alt="Fred257" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoMedium" /></a><a href="/profile/239039/Fred257" class="Username">Fred257</a> </span> <span class="AuthorInfo"> <span class="MItem PostCount">Posts: <b>257</b></span><span class="MItem RoleTitle member">member</span> </span> </div> <div class="Meta CommentMeta CommentInfo"> <span class="MItem DateCreated"> <a href="/discussion/comment/3459102/#Comment_3459102" class="Permalink" name="Item_2" rel="nofollow"><time title="October 1, 2024 8:10PM" datetime="2024-10-01T20:10:19+00:00">October 1, 2024 8:10PM</time></a> </span> </div> </div> <div class="Item-BodyWrap"> <div class="Item-Body"> <div class="Message"> <blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a rel="nofollow" href="/profile/218831/9secondkox2">9secondkox2</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText">Signing contracts isn’t illegal. <div><br /></div><div>And if a union is crushed by it, that’s also not illegal. </div><div><br /></div><div>Nothing to see here. </div></div> </blockquote> Unions are responsible for your 8 to 5 and your five day work week. They are also responsible for your higher salaries. Otherwise we all would be working 24 hours a day 7 days per week. These are facts. Just go to China where there are no unions and this is the reality.  Capitalism requires communism to exist for their own slave work forces and no unions. </div> <span class="UserReactionWrap" data-userid="15519" title="ronn - Like on October 1, 2024."><a title="ronn" href="/profile/15519/ronn" class="PhotoWrap PhotoWrapSmall"><img src="https://forums.appleinsider.com/uploads/userpics/657/nG3AD53JUR9T7.jpg" alt="ronn" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoSmall" /></a><span class="ReactSprite Reaction-1 ReactHeart2"></span></span><span class="UserReactionWrap" data-userid="218831" title="9secondkox2 - Informative on October 1, 2024."><a title="9secondkox2" href="/profile/218831/9secondkox2" class="PhotoWrap PhotoWrapSmall"><img src="https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=3849ae286b8f6d6557af38a4c6b4a278&amp;size=50&default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F3849ae286b8f6d6557af38a4c6b4a278.png" alt="9secondkox2" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoSmall" /></a><span class="ReactSprite Reaction-4 ReactInfo"></span></span><li><script async src="https://securepubads.g.doubleclick.net/tag/js/gpt.js"></script> <script> window.googletag = window.googletag || {cmd: []}; googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.defineSlot('/53013535/Forum_Desktop_Second_Leaderboard_728x90', [728, 90], 'div-gpt-ad-1593613199876-0').addService(googletag.pubads()); googletag.pubads().enableSingleRequest(); googletag.enableServices(); }); </script> <div style="text-align: center; margin: 0 auto; min-width:728px;">  <div style="margin: 0 auto; text-align: center; margin-bottom: 20px;"> <div id='div-gpt-ad-1593613199876-0' style='width: 728px; height: 90px; margin: 0 auto; text-align: center;'> <script> googletag.cmd.push(function() { googletag.display('div-gpt-ad-1593613199876-0'); }); </script> </div> </div> </div></li> <li class="Item Alt ItemComment Role_member" id="Comment_3459126"> <div class="Comment"> <div class="Options"> <span class="PostNum">Reply 3 of 5</span> </div> <div class="Item-Header CommentHeader"> <div class="AuthorWrap"> <span class="Author"> <a title="jdw" href="/profile/26403/jdw" class="PhotoWrap"><img src="https://forums.appleinsider.com/uploads/userpics/471/n1V3P7156ZBUO.png" alt="jdw" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoMedium" /></a><a href="/profile/26403/jdw" class="Username">jdw</a> </span> <span class="AuthorInfo"> <span class="MItem PostCount">Posts: <b>1,451</b></span><span class="MItem RoleTitle member">member</span> </span> </div> <div class="Meta CommentMeta CommentInfo"> <span class="MItem DateCreated"> <a href="/discussion/comment/3459126/#Comment_3459126" class="Permalink" name="Item_3" rel="nofollow"><time title="October 2, 2024 12:35AM" datetime="2024-10-02T00:35:40+00:00">October 2, 2024 12:35AM</time></a> </span> </div> </div> <div class="Item-BodyWrap"> <div class="Item-Body"> <div class="Message"> <blockquote class="Quote"> <div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" title="Link: null">Fred257</a> said:</div> <div><blockquote class="Quote"> <div><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" title="Link: null">9secondkox2</a> said:</div> <div>Signing contracts isn’t illegal. <div><br /></div><div>And if a union is crushed by it, that’s also not illegal. </div><div><br /></div><div>Nothing to see here. </div></div> </blockquote> Unions are responsible for your 8 to 5 and your five day work week. They are also responsible for your higher salaries. Otherwise we all would be working 24 hours a day 7 days per week. These are facts. Just go to China where there are no unions and this is the reality.  Capitalism requires communism to exist for their own slave work forces and no unions.</div> </blockquote> China? Such an extreme example is clearly being used by a very pro-union person here.<br /><br />I'm a US citizen originally from California but who has lived in Japan for the last 30 years.  I can tell you that unions are NOT responsible for the current legal framework that governs working conditions in Japan.  And although Japanese people have a stronger work ethic than most Americans (in modern times, anyway), a full time worker is legally allowed to work for only 8 hours per day, 40 hours in total per week. Anything beyond that requires overtime pay.  You can read more of the<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://japan-dev.com/blog/japan-work-hours"> ins-and-outs here</a>.<br /><br />Do Japanese people work long hours?  Yes.  Do they do that because their company officially demands it?  In most cases, no.  But there are strong feelings of cultural obligation (especially for men), which go back to what I said about "work ethic."  Most workers here in Japan (including women working only part time) treat their employers with a high level of respect and seek not merely their own best interest in mind.  They try to take the bigger picture and if they can help out in a way that can better ensure their employer still exists 30 years hence, they'll do what they can to realize that goal.<br /><br />Labor unions in Japan exist, but membership is at an all time low:<br /><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15249462" title="Link: https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15249462">https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15249462</a><br /><br />Labor unions in Japan were NOT responsible for 40 hour work weeks, 8 hour work days and overtime pay. <span>Japan's </span>Labor Standards Act of<span> 1947 is responsible for worker protections.<br /><br />Labor unions in general, whether in Japan or the USA, focus their efforts on helping the worker, not in helping the company who pays the worker.  As such, unions really couldn't care less if their </span><span>efforts ultimately undermine employers or cause them go to out of business.  Labor unions only care about the increased flow of money and benefits to workers, as well as work hours and working conditions.  That is primarily the reason average people don’t really hold unions in high regard.  If unions cared about both sides of the equation (similar to how individual workers in Japan care about their pay as much as the stability of their employer who gives them that pay), things really would change for the better.  Your average company doesn't pay their employees $500 per hour "because of corporate greed."  They don't pay $500/hr because it isn't sustainable for the business.<br /></span><span><br /><b>Work for Apple, even in retail, is really an outstanding opportunity. </b> Yet, few people in modern times (in the USA anyway) tend to give thanks for the goodness they have.  It's all about getting more.  It's about what you think you deserve.  And a lot of that is based on what your fellow man is screaming in protest at any given moment.  <br /><br />All of this unionization and calling Apple horrible names only amounts to biting the kind and generous hand that feeds you.  It's unfortunate that all those COVID payouts ultimately triggered outrageous levels of inflation in the US.  But the fact is that even though a company is very large and takes in a lot of money doesn't mean it too can pay all of their employees, including janitors, $500 per hour.  And while I deliberately exaggerated that sum to emphasize a point, the fact is that there is a proper balance to compensation that unions don't necessarily believe in.  If they could strong arm a firm to pay $500 per hour, unions would, the employer be darned.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /></span> </div> <span class="UserReactionWrap" data-userid="218831" title="9secondkox2 - Like on October 1, 2024."><a title="9secondkox2" href="/profile/218831/9secondkox2" class="PhotoWrap PhotoWrapSmall"><img src="https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=3849ae286b8f6d6557af38a4c6b4a278&amp;size=50&default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F3849ae286b8f6d6557af38a4c6b4a278.png" alt="9secondkox2" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoSmall" /></a><span class="ReactSprite Reaction-1 ReactHeart2"></span></span> <li class="Item ItemComment Role_member" id="Comment_3459138"> <div class="Comment"> <div class="Options"> <span class="PostNum">Reply 4 of 5</span> </div> <div class="Item-Header CommentHeader"> <div class="AuthorWrap"> <span class="Author"> <a title="9secondkox2" href="/profile/218831/9secondkox2" class="PhotoWrap"><img src="https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=3849ae286b8f6d6557af38a4c6b4a278&amp;size=50&default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F3849ae286b8f6d6557af38a4c6b4a278.png" alt="9secondkox2" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoMedium" /></a><a href="/profile/218831/9secondkox2" class="Username">9secondkox2</a> </span> <span class="AuthorInfo"> <span class="MItem PostCount">Posts: <b>3,138</b></span><span class="MItem RoleTitle member">member</span> </span> </div> <div class="Meta CommentMeta CommentInfo"> <span class="MItem DateCreated"> <a href="/discussion/comment/3459138/#Comment_3459138" class="Permalink" name="Item_4" rel="nofollow"><time title="October 2, 2024 4:37AM" datetime="2024-10-02T04:37:14+00:00">October 2, 2024 4:37AM</time></a> </span> </div> </div> <div class="Item-BodyWrap"> <div class="Item-Body"> <div class="Message"> For the record, the labor union did push for the 40 hour workweek, but failed. <div><br /></div><div>Later, Congress and the president pushed for and passed laws regulating hours government employees had to work and then Henry Ford made it popular in the private sector - without union influence. <br /><br />gotta give credit to American leaders just being good people for that one. </div><div><br /></div><div>Again - signing contracts is legal. If a union doesn’t come about as a result? Also perfectly fine. Nobody needs unions except the union bosses. </div> </div> <span class="CommentLastUpdated"> <span title="Edited October 2, 2024 4:38AM by 9secondkox2." class="DateUpdated">edited October 1</span> </span> <li class="Item Alt ItemComment Role_member" id="Comment_3459151"> <div class="Comment"> <div class="Options"> <span class="PostNum">Reply 5 of 5</span> </div> <div class="Item-Header CommentHeader"> <div class="AuthorWrap"> <span class="Author"> <a title="beowulfschmidt" href="/profile/187505/beowulfschmidt" class="PhotoWrap"><img src="https://forums.appleinsider.com/uploads/userpics/523/nY0LI24WM85KQ.JPG" alt="beowulfschmidt" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoMedium" /></a><a href="/profile/187505/beowulfschmidt" class="Username">beowulfschmidt</a> </span> <span class="AuthorInfo"> <span class="MItem PostCount">Posts: <b>2,351</b></span><span class="MItem RoleTitle member">member</span> </span> </div> <div class="Meta CommentMeta CommentInfo"> <span class="MItem DateCreated"> <a href="/discussion/comment/3459151/#Comment_3459151" class="Permalink" name="Item_5" rel="nofollow"><time title="October 2, 2024 12:30PM" datetime="2024-10-02T12:30:31+00:00">October 2, 2024 12:30PM</time></a> </span> </div> </div> <div class="Item-BodyWrap"> <div class="Item-Body"> <div class="Message"> <blockquote class="Quote"> <div class="QuoteAuthor"><a rel="nofollow" href="/profile/218831/9secondkox2">9secondkox2</a> said:</div> <div class="QuoteText">Signing contracts isn’t illegal. <div><br /></div><div>And if a union is crushed by it, that’s also not illegal. </div><div><br /></div><div>Nothing to see here. </div></div> </blockquote><div> Technically, you are correct when you say "signing contracts isn't illegal."</div><div><br /></div><div>However, some <i>contracts</i> are illegal, or at least unenforceable.  There are some things, both rights and responsibilities, that cannot legally be contracted away.  Not that people don't still try, though.<br /></div> </div> <span class="UserReactionWrap" data-userid="225122" title="muthuk_vanalingam - Like on October 2, 2024."><a title="muthuk_vanalingam" href="/profile/225122/muthuk_vanalingam" class="PhotoWrap PhotoWrapSmall"><img src="https://secure.gravatar.com/avatar.php?gravatar_id=76bd5bd1340901c578ab35dfe3ef1449&amp;size=50&default=https%3A%2F%2Fvanillicon.com%2F76bd5bd1340901c578ab35dfe3ef1449.png" alt="muthuk_vanalingam" class="ProfilePhoto ProfilePhotoSmall" /></a><span class="ReactSprite Reaction-1 ReactHeart2"></span></span> </ul> </div><div class="P PagerWrap"></div></div> <div class="Foot Closed"> <div class="Note Closed SignInOrRegister"><a href="/entry/signin?Target=discussion%2Fcomment%2F3459097%3F">Sign In</a> or <a href="/entry/register?Target=discussion%2Fcomment%2F3459097%3F">Register</a> to comment. </div> </div> </div> </main> </div> </section> <footer class="page-footer sticky-footer"> <div class="container"> <div class="clearfix"> <p style="position: fixed; bottom: 2em; right: 2em;"> <a class="top"> <a id="return-top" href="#top" title="Back to Top"> <strong><i class="fa fa-chevron-up"></i></strong> </a> </a> </p> <p id="page-footer-content"> Copyright © 2024 Quiller Media, Inc <br /> <br /> <a href="https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/184333/appleinsiders-updated-commenting-guidelines/p1">Commenting Guidelines</a> · <a href="https://appleinsider.com/privacy/">Privacy Policy</a> · <a href="mailto:aiforumhelp@gmail.com">Contact</a> </p> </div> </div> </footer> </body> </html>