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<!DOCTYPE html> <html class="client-nojs" lang="en" dir="ltr"> <head> <meta charset="UTF-8"/> <title>View source for User talk:Pat Palmer - Citizendium</title> <script>document.documentElement.className="client-js";RLCONF={"wgBreakFrames":false,"wgSeparatorTransformTable":["",""],"wgDigitTransformTable":["",""],"wgDefaultDateFormat":"dmy","wgMonthNames":["","January","February","March","April","May","June","July","August","September","October","November","December"],"wgRequestId":"d952a4a34bbb6f0309d8e581","wgCSPNonce":false,"wgCanonicalNamespace":"User_talk","wgCanonicalSpecialPageName":false,"wgNamespaceNumber":3,"wgPageName":"User_talk:Pat_Palmer","wgTitle":"Pat Palmer","wgCurRevisionId":993258,"wgRevisionId":0,"wgArticleId":207534,"wgIsArticle":false,"wgIsRedirect":false,"wgAction":"edit","wgUserName":null,"wgUserGroups":["*"],"wgCategories":[],"wgPageContentLanguage":"en","wgPageContentModel":"wikitext","wgRelevantPageName":"User_talk:Pat_Palmer","wgRelevantArticleId":207534,"wgIsProbablyEditable":false,"wgRelevantPageIsProbablyEditable":false,"wgRestrictionEdit":[],"wgRestrictionMove":[],"wgRelevantUserName":"Pat Palmer","wgPageFormsTargetName" :null,"wgPageFormsAutocompleteValues":[],"wgPageFormsAutocompleteOnAllChars":false,"wgPageFormsFieldProperties":[],"wgPageFormsCargoFields":[],"wgPageFormsDependentFields":[],"wgPageFormsCalendarValues":[],"wgPageFormsCalendarParams":[],"wgPageFormsCalendarHTML":null,"wgPageFormsGridValues":[],"wgPageFormsGridParams":[],"wgPageFormsContLangYes":null,"wgPageFormsContLangNo":null,"wgPageFormsContLangMonths":[],"wgPageFormsHeightForMinimizingInstances":800,"wgPageFormsShowOnSelect":[],"wgPageFormsScriptPath":"/wiki/extensions/PageForms","edgValues":null,"wgPageFormsEDSettings":null,"wgAmericanDates":false,"wgVector2022PreviewPages":[],"wgMediaViewerOnClick":true,"wgMediaViewerEnabledByDefault":true,"wgPopupsFlags":4};RLSTATE={"site.styles":"ready","user.styles":"ready","user":"ready","user.options":"loading","skins.vector.styles.legacy":"ready"};RLPAGEMODULES=["mediawiki.action.edit.collapsibleFooter","site","mediawiki.page.ready","skins.vector.legacy.js","ext.gadget.charinsert", "ext.popups"];</script> <script>(RLQ=window.RLQ||[]).push(function(){mw.loader.implement("user.options@12s5i",function($,jQuery,require,module){mw.user.tokens.set({"patrolToken":"+\\","watchToken":"+\\","csrfToken":"+\\"});});});</script> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/wiki/load.php?lang=en&modules=skins.vector.styles.legacy&only=styles&skin=vector"/> <script async="" src="/wiki/load.php?lang=en&modules=startup&only=scripts&raw=1&skin=vector"></script> <meta name="ResourceLoaderDynamicStyles" content=""/> <link rel="stylesheet" href="/wiki/load.php?lang=en&modules=site.styles&only=styles&skin=vector"/> <meta name="generator" content="MediaWiki 1.39.5"/> <meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow"/> <meta name="format-detection" content="telephone=no"/> <meta name="viewport" content="width=1000"/> <link rel="icon" href="/images/favicon1.ico"/> <link rel="search" type="application/opensearchdescription+xml" href="/wiki/opensearch_desc.php" title="Citizendium"/> <link rel="EditURI" type="application/rsd+xml" href="https://citizendium.org/wiki/api.php?action=rsd"/> <link rel="license" href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/4.0/"/> <link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Citizendium Atom feed" href="/wiki/index.php?title=Special:RecentChanges&feed=atom"/> <script async src="https://www.googletagmanager.com/gtag/js?id=G-W7ML9SNPXT"></script> <script> window.dataLayer = window.dataLayer || []; function gtag(){dataLayer.push(arguments);} gtag('js', new Date()); gtag('config', 'G-W7ML9SNPXT'); </script> </head> <body class="mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr mw-hide-empty-elt ns-3 ns-talk page-User_talk_Pat_Palmer rootpage-User_talk_Pat_Palmer skin-vector action-edit skin-vector-legacy vector-feature-language-in-header-enabled vector-feature-language-in-main-page-header-disabled vector-feature-language-alert-in-sidebar-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-disabled vector-feature-sticky-header-edit-disabled vector-feature-table-of-contents-disabled vector-feature-visual-enhancement-next-disabled"><div id="mw-page-base" class="noprint"></div> <div id="mw-head-base" class="noprint"></div> <div id="content" class="mw-body" role="main"> <a id="top"></a> <div id="siteNotice"></div> <div class="mw-indicators"> </div> <h1 id="firstHeading" class="firstHeading mw-first-heading">View source for User talk:Pat Palmer</h1> <div id="bodyContent" class="vector-body"> <div id="contentSub">← <a href="/wiki/User_talk:Pat_Palmer" title="User talk:Pat Palmer">User talk:Pat Palmer</a></div> <div id="contentSub2"></div> <div id="jump-to-nav"></div> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#mw-head">Jump to navigation</a> <a class="mw-jump-link" href="#searchInput">Jump to search</a> <div id="mw-content-text" class="mw-body-content"><p>You do not have permission to edit this page, for the following reason: </p> <div class="permissions-errors"> <p>The action you have requested is limited to users in the group: <a href="/wiki/CZ:Author" title="CZ:Author">Users</a>. </p> </div><hr /> <p>You can view and copy the source of this page. </p><textarea readonly="" accesskey="," id="wpTextbox1" cols="80" rows="25" style="" class="mw-editfont-monospace" lang="en" dir="ltr" name="wpTextbox1">{{Archive box|auto=long}} ==Mount Evans to Mount blue sky== Pat, thanks for redirecting that page about the mountain in Colorado. [[User:Jack S. Byrom|Jack S. Byrom]] ([[User talk:Jack S. Byrom|talk]]) 09:17, 20 September 2023 (CDT) :Glad to do it. It's great to see you drop by and edit a bit in here. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 10:42, 20 September 2023 (CDT) ==Test Comment== Hi Pat! Just testing out leaving comments on discussion pages. [[User:E. J. Diamond|E. J. Diamond]] ([[User talk:E. J. Diamond|talk]]) 15:47, 13 October 2023 (CDT) :Commenting on your test comment. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 15:48, 13 October 2023 (CDT) == App == While looking for something else, I serendipitously came across tipitaka.app. I think we should mention this, but I don't know much about this modern technology, in particular how to reference this. [[User:Peter Jackson|Peter Jackson]] ([[User talk:Peter Jackson|talk]]) 05:29, 17 November 2023 (CST) :This looks interesting. I have loaded it on my Android smartphone and on Windows and will try it out. The smartphone version seems to be in the process of downloading a large dictionary of terms in the background, so it may be a while before it works. The Windows version is tricky to install and also doesn't work yet, possibly for the same reason. I will try again later! [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 09:11, 17 November 2023 (CST) :: Sadly, I never was able to get it to work. It's a great idea though. I'd love to be able to line up my favorite English translations of the canon and do a text search over the whole thing. Too bad. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 10:18, 8 February 2024 (CST) == Articles with subpages that require metadata... == I got your recent email, thanks. [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] ([[User talk:George Swan|talk]]) 20:26, 21 December 2023 (CST) :Hi George (and anyone). I am moving the list of pages needing Metadata to [[CZ:Pages without metadata]]. Please add your newly created articles to that list. I am trying to hire a programmer to get metadata creation automated when creating new articles. We had that for many years in the past, but it was never rewritten after an old wiki upgrade broke it. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 11:58, 2 January 2024 (CST) == Doggie test pages == Hi Pat. I found [[Doggie/Definition]], [[Doggie/External Links]], [[Doggie/Related Articles]], and [[Doggie1/Definition]] which are test pages you were using. You have already deleted the main [[Doggie]] article. Do you want to keep these four or delete them too? Btw, how much is the one in the window? [[User:John Leach|John]] ([[User talk:John Leach|talk]]) 03:53, 12 January 2024 (CST) :Lol. Please delete them. I might need some test articles again in the future, and will let you know if I am using them. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 09:52, 12 January 2024 (CST) == Lemma clusters == Hi, Pat. I think I've made some progress with these by focusing on [[:Category:Lemma Subpage]]. I decided to action all articles with subpages other than Related Articles so we now have 599 in that category and the same 599 in [[:Category:Lemma Related Articles Subpage]]. As this has identified several oddballs and duplicates, I think we now have a level playing field. However, there are still 15,000 articles in [[:Category:Lemma Cluster]] overall and the overwhelming majority are about the sort of obscure subjects we've already discussed. I think I will take a break from housekeeping now and go back to normal writing as I might burn out if I try to keep going. Perhaps the best approach now will be to pick out anything that obviously needs a metadata, such as [[Bayeux Tapestry]] or [[Central America]], and deal with those. As for Howard's stuff, there are numerous groups of articles with serial numbers which are easily seen, such as ADM or AH or AMD, so they could be batched together for deletion. I'll do an occasional purge but I do think, despite 15,000 being no small number, that we've got things under control now. [[User:John Leach|John]] ([[User talk:John Leach|talk]]) 04:29, 14 January 2024 (CST) == Redirects == Hi, Pat. I just thought I'd let you know that I'm going to start hitting redirects as I've been coming across lots of them which are unnecessary or are leftovers from page movement. Some still have metadatas and/or subpages which are just so much extra clutter. I've done a search and there are over 15,700 redirect pages including hundreds of double redirects. I'm not going to waste time adding reasons for deletion because of the timeout bug so I'll build a list for the day and go through them as quickly as I can. When I see any I think are at least useful, if not essential, I'll leave them be. They can easily be restored or recreated if I hit any that are needed. I've also finished working through letter A of [[:Category:Lemma Subpage]] and many now have metadatas. The 22 which remain are in PropDel as I don't think they will be expanded. We currently have 46 under B and I'll start looking at those soon. These of course are the lemmas which have a related articles page so there's "only" 560-odd of them. [[User:John Leach|John]] ([[User talk:John Leach|talk]]) 04:10, 8 February 2024 (CST) :I agree that, while we definitely need some Redirects, the wiki has too many now, and too many double redirects, and that they are clutter which we would do well to reduce. I look forwards to your efforts (I'm slowly working on them also). [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 10:12, 8 February 2024 (CST) ::P S - But, please be sure to check What Links Here, and if things link to the Redirect, use the Replace Text tool (or possibly manual edits) to fix the redlinks that would be left by deleting a Redirect. It can be a bit of tedious work, which is why this work is slow and tedious. [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 10:13, 8 February 2024 (CST) :::I've been going through the [https://citizendium.org/wiki/Special:BrokenRedirects Broken Redirects] first, Pat. They were easily dealt with because there's a delete trigger for each one. We can't delete CZ pages for some reason. They produce an internal error. :::I also want to work through [https://citizendium.org/wiki/Special:DoubleRedirects Double Redirects] which is a mess. There are 445 of those and I'll have to hold my hand up there because I can see several that are mine. I think that might be it for today, though, but I should be back tomorrow. It's snowing and settling here. First snow we've had this winter. [[User:John Leach|John]] ([[User talk:John Leach|talk]]) 11:12, 8 February 2024 (CST) == email == You asked me to send some kinds of messages to you via email. Did you see I sent you an email on Saturday? [[User:George Swan|George Swan]] ([[User talk:George Swan|talk]]) 12:02, 12 February 2024 (CST) :George, I did not receive it at either the CZ email or my personal email. Can you try again? [[User:Pat Palmer|Pat Palmer]] ([[User talk:Pat Palmer|talk]]) 11:01, 13 February 2024 (CST) == End of tether == Hi, Pat. Please see recent talk page entries and recent corrections I have had to spend time doing. I think I've had enough for now and will take a break but, frankly, I'm calling Houston. [[User:John Leach|John]] ([[User talk:John Leach|talk]]) 16:55, 14 February 2024 (CST) :Seen your message elsewhere, Pat. As it happens, I'll be very busy in home life for the next several days so I'll be stepping aside from the internet. All the best. [[User:John Leach|John]] ([[User talk:John Leach|talk]]) 03:49, 15 February 2024 (CST) == Living persons == Hi, Pat. I've not a lot of time for the next three days because family are visiting but we've just been chatting about CZ and one of my daughters has made a useful suggestion. She is puzzled by the Topic Informant classification and thinks we should simplify how we categorise living person biographies (BLP) by having a Biographies category with a Living Persons sub-category. On the face of it, this seems a good idea to me. I think we'd have to augment it by insisting that all BLPs must have a metadata completed and that no BLP can be a lemma. Also, of course, anyone creating a BLP must be able to demonstrate the subject's significance. For example, [[Joe Biden]] and [[Kamala Harris]] are significant, but is [[Jeff Zients]] (whose name I plucked out of a list)? I would add that everything we write in a BLP article must be verified by citation of a reliable source, especially if the person is controversial in some way. Just one for us to think about as it might be a way towards better control of BLP creation and content. [[User:John Leach|John]] ([[User talk:John Leach|talk]]) 04:22, 16 February 2024 (CST) : I had never heard of Jeff Zients, either. 15 seconds with google taught me he is Joe Biden's Chief of Staff. That is a very important position. : His wikipedia article has 48 references. and [https://xtools.wmcloud.org/articleinfo/en.wikipedia.org/Jeff_Zients has been edited over 750 times]. : His wikipedia article has been read something like [https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2023-01-20&end=2024-02-15&pages=Jeff_Zients 316,000 times]. 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